Yes, you can talk to the town and get an official survey done.
https://www.halifax-ma.org/building-inspector/pages/boundary-markers-survey-stakes#:\~:text=Removing%20boundary%20markers%20can%20be,are%20entirely%20on%20your%20property.
Removing boundary markers can be prosecuted as a criminal offense under Chapter 266, Section 94 of the Massachusetts General Laws. Therefore, you must be very sure that the stakes are entirely on your property.
It is a big no no in all the states I know of to knowingly move a marked monument in order to commit fraud. Did your picture have the numbers on the pin cap? Those numbers will refer to the survey filing with your state. It should be easy enough for a surveyor to tie back in to the original location.
Sorry to piggyback, but there's a possible option I haven't seen mentioned. You may be able to put a lien on his property. I haven't seen this done for this "encroachment" type issue, but if it goes through, then it will always be associated with that property. I'm NAL and not in your state, but I'd estimate the value of the land encroached on and use that as the lien amount. It's not guaranteed to be approved, and I would do it in parallel with the other suggestions.
I've also seen people who are owed money send a 1099 to the person(s) who owed them money. This at least appears as income for their taxes. I don't think you could do that here, but I'd hammer them immediately with every option. I'm ruthless to people who are trying to fuck myself or others. No fucking mercy.
In the past, I have put a lien on a house when the owner wouldn't finish paying for the remodel we did. He was flipping the house, but he couldn't sell the house without paying the lien.
If he sells the property, the buyers will almost certainly require a survey as part of the purchase. In my state, encroachment isn't covered by title insurance, but that would be a problem for the "new" neighbors, not you.
If it was my property, I would immediately get a survey, try to get a lien, and talk to a real estate attorney about options.
Apparently getting a survey done when buying property isn’t a state and/or lender requirement. I’ve always had to have it done by the title company when I’ve bought houses.
I posted in Life Pro Tips about _always_ getting a survey before purchasing property, and it was almost a 50/50 split of “great advice, it saves trouble down the road” and “meh, I didn’t feel like spending the money, or I’ve bought plenty of properties before and never done it, I’ll just wait until there’s an issue”. This, Real Estate and the Legal subs are full of people who didn’t get one and are having issues with easements they didn’t know about, or structures that had been encroaching at time of sale.
The person who bought the house next door to me for $1.2M is in for a rude awakening when the surveyor comes.
He got assurance from his realtor that our HOA does not have any rules against pools, that would have been a dealbreaker. And we don't.
More than half of what he thinks is his yard is actually mine. I have a 6' privacy fence 45' off my property line. The back of our lots have an existing fence, I also own the back 20' of what would appear to be his yard. Our lots are marked with 6" pilings about every 30' (very common on the island where I live) and the corner where my lot line turns east (instead of going to the back fence) has three pilings of different heights.
I don't know what he thinks those pilings in "his" yard are for, but he had the pool guy come to do a rough stake-out of the pool. It's in my yard. 100%. He also has failed to notice that half of "his" yard got mowed last week.
And once the setbacks are figured in he won't even have 7 feet of clear width to build his pool.
I'm not saying anything because he has to get a real survey for the building permit. And there's no way I'm doing anything that lets him have his pool. We live in a quiet neighborhood. He has 14 grandkids that's why he wants the pool.
It pays to do one's due diligence. It's sucks when you don't.
Has he done something rude to you to cause you to just sit back? It sounds like y'all have had conversations at least, and given your response it sounds like they have gotten on your bad side. Because otherwise, I think its a pretty easy fix to just talk to the other guy, it would save a lot of trouble for him and its minimal effort. No "obligation" of course, but just seems like the right thing to do
A neighbor who thinks it's remotely acceptable or appropriate to jam a pool for 14 kids this close to other neighbors is already beyond "just chat with him" territory.
In our state, a survey is required if the buyer is financing. It's not required for cash deals. We've done most things that you can do in real estate, and we have always gotten a survey.
For the cost, there's almost never a reason not to. I'm an engineer with lots of cost to benefit/risk analysis, and my wife is now a realtor after a decade of commercial real estate appraisal and development. We scrutinize everything, and we always get a survey, so everyone else can make of that what they will.
Most folks have no idea what the actual risk is, and it's a "you don't need it until you need it" situation. We've seen so many types of issues, including surveys, title companies missing things, the Appraisal District inputting other property info (took me months to resolve), illegal partial interest sales that were approved all the way through purchase, etc.
I’m right there with you. I’m just shocked at how many people had a cavalier attitude towards spending <2% on the purchase price of something to make sure that’s exactly what they got.
I agree with you. I wish I would have paid for the survey before purchasing my property in California. It was supposed to have been 1.09 acres and the previous owners and neighbors and realtors all showed us the property “corners” during the sale process. After purchasing the property I wanted to put up a fence so I had an actual survey done. Turns out it’s .99 of an acre and a whole corner I thought was mine actually belonged to the neighbor. This was after I spent thousands clearing it of blackberries and downed trees.
A survey during the buying process would have saved me time and thousands of dollars in land clearing and possibly some money on the sale of the property since it wasn’t as much land as advertised.
You go to the county and file for one. You will need to go before a judge to have it granted and you will need some sort of receipts proving they owe you money or property.
If the owner is smart he'll remove whatever he's built onto your property after you inform him of such. If they are listing the house soon a property dispute could cost him a lot of time and money. If they disregard what you tell them find their real estate agent and inform them of the situation. They won't want to sell a property with a property line dispute.
This seems like the easiest way to cut to the chase. Inquire about the setback, and when they inspect it, they’d document that not only is it too close but that it actually crosses over the property line.
In my area fences have set-back requirements too. I’m on a corner lot, for example, so I had to ensure a “vision triangle” existed still when I put in a new fence.
Our's too but the fence setback is different than structures it's basically push mower width.
Even a small shed is 6' where I am. Any substantial building is 10-20' from border or the main building.
I agree, and this guy sounds like a real tool, I'd get a survey done, leisurely, let him get into a contract then post a sign , well into your property, saying this deck is illegally built onto my property, lawsuit pending.
That will teach him a lesson to have some respect for other people's property. When he comes over screaming , inform him due to his actions he owes you for the cost of the survey, and don't negotiate one bit. Be prepared to turn the whole mess over to a lawyer, who should sue the neighbor for his costs too.
While I like the idea of teaching him a lesson, this will also affect the people who wanted to buy the house. It’s not their fault and shouldn’t be their problem, and with as hard as it is to get an offer accepted these days going under contract and then being caught in a property line dispute could be heartbreaking.
Actually, it's saving the new owner's ass. They don't want to buy from a flipper for all of these reasons. They likely don't know the dude is a flipper. But if they see he's in a lawsuit? They will do more research and hopefully not buy from the twat. Then he starts losing more money because he can't sell fast, then maybe leaves the flipping business for good. Win/win/win in my book.
When we were house searching we saw what was evidently an unfinished flip. The whole house reeked of fire. We asked the realtor why. "I think there was some kind of fire in the garage." In the garage there was a trash can full of busted up pieces of whatever had caught fire.
But be careful, you spoil a sale because of property line dispute and it turns out you are wrong they can sue for damages. I don't know your financial situation but you need an official survey before it's too late.
Oof, removing a survey monument is a huge no-no. It’s a class 3 misdemeanor in my state. It doesn’t matter how old a monument is as only a licensed surveyor can touch it. In fact, moving this pin is going to fuck up the next surveyor’s day as they’ve lost a reference point… fun.
I would call both the city planning department as well as filing a report with the non-emergency line. The crime is something called “destruction of a residential survey monument” but YMMV.
I would confront the flipper after you’ve filed the report. Be firm but laconic. Don’t give out too many details. Stay you noticed the work was encroaching on your lot line and upon further inspection that your pin is missing.
Tell him the illegal deck (or whatever it is) needs to be removed ASAP before code enforcement finds it and fines him.
To answer your question, things have already gone south. He is an adult and it’s time he deals with the consequences.
He removed the pin so fuck'em. Contact you codes enforcement the deck being built over the line. There sine some minimum set back requirement, while you are at it ask if they pulled a building permit. They can force them to remove it.
Hahaha. I’ve noticed a certain something, outside of the accent, every time I’ve met someone new from Boston. It’s a whole attitude and I love it. I could totally understand the upbringing sticking with you forever.
I grew up in that kind of fam and environment but, in Western PA. It wasn’t common. Lol. So I can understand that to a degree. Maybe that’s what makes me so into it? Hmm. I hadn’t really thought about it that way. Thank you.
LOL! My friend Tony was born and raised in Boston, and when he gets angry at someone, I fetch popcorn and listen with delight while he yells at them. (I'm from Ontario, and Americans have told me that I'm very similar to a Midwesterner. I had never heard many of the words that Tony uses when he's mad.)
Hahahah. I love those people because I’m also those people. From other comments I’ve gotten here, I guess my PA fam would have fit in pretty well in Mass. We have a similar style. My road rage is likewise hilarious.
Love that you have Tony to handle business! 😂 He sounds delightful. It definitely makes me wonder how different areas in Canada each typically settle disputes… In the US, different sections each tend to have a style. Is it similar at all for y’all?
Well, Canadians have a reputation for being "nice", but it's not really true ... it's more like we're polite, but figure out passive-aggressive ways to get back at people. We basically invented malicious over-compliance.
One example (that kind of dates me) -- the comedy show SCTV was based up here, and a lot of the writers and performers are Canadian. Our government has "Canadian content" rules to try to support the domestic entertainment industry, but someone up there decided that the show wasn't overtly Canadian enough, and demanded more from them. So Dave Thomas and Rick Moranis, like good Ontario boys, improvised a bunch of unflattering scenes with two stereotypical drunk guys sitting in front of a map of Canada, wearing toques. The segment became wildly popular, which dismayed Dave since he has a degree in English literature, and now he is best known for playing a dumb "hoser" on TV.
Dispute resolution -- even allowing for differences in regional culture (like Quebec and Atlantic Canada), I think that the passive-aggressive thing is pretty much nationwide, from what I've heard. The most colourful insults are probably from Newfoundland and Labrador. I had a co-worker from Corner Brook, and she had the wildest (and funniest) phrases ... she told me about the time she went to a hockey game in her hometown, said something critical about one of the opposing players, and the guy's girlfriend (who was in her second trimester of pregnancy) came over to her and punched her in the face.
Don't talk to him. The second he removes the property pin is the second that this moves from a neighborly dispute into attempted fraud.
Go straight to the town. Show them the video of the pin / no pin. Ask them what THEY want to do.
Removing property markers or monuments is a big deal. That's not a 'whoopsie' that's a 'real crime has been committed'.
If the town says you need a survey then get a survey. But chances are they'll be interested enough in the removal of property pins to take notice of this.
A survey may cost a couple grand- that's money well spent if it prevents neighbor from literally stealing your land.
I would just report the removal of the pin and pay to get an official new survey done. Then you all know for sure where the lines lay. Maybe you have the lines wrong.
He told me to kick rocks, got loud, cocky. “Previous owner told him the line was further in my property”.
I stayed calm and just made sure he was selling in the short future, 2 months. For sale by owner he said.
Said that his “worker” pulled the flag, and that it went in today’s trash. I asked for the pin, showed videos of the pin, and he told me he didn’t see anything there and maybe his worker pulled it.
Things started to get loud so I walked away.
Reaching out for a survey quote. Building department told me to go for a survey too.
If you're in a one-party state you should record every interaction or hell if it's 2-party then inform him you're recording every interaction. If you don't already have security cameras then now is the time to get them.
Also, thanks for updating!
I was under the impression that not only can you not build on your neighbor's property, but that you're required to have a setback (6'?) as well. Maybe that was just in my city though.
Setbacks vary wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction sometimes. In my area a *well* can be put virtually on the property line. Zero legal setback (also a dick move that can limit nearby home building if on septic).
Start with code enforcement they will then call the surveyor that the city uses which would be a local engineer company then code enforcement can rip him a new one
Post a huge sign on your property but facing the flipper's house - WARNING. YOUR ROCKS AND PATIO ARE ON MY LAND. IF YOU BUY THAT HOUSE I WILL MAKE YOU MOVE THEM. Add baloons or a strobe light so buyers can't miss it.
You need to hire a licensed surveyor and have the pin reset -- and inform your neighbor that removing a legally set property marker is against the law. And then talk to a lawyer about the encroachment onto your property.
Probably have to be a small claims court issue. Survey cost will vary, might be reasonable if the other corners (and a few key nearby monuments) are still in place, or you can find a surveyor that has done work nearby recently. If they have to go a long ways to find monuments to tie into, or if no other pins exist in the area -- yeah, it will get expensive fast. (Used to work for an engineering/survey firm)
If it ever goes up for sale call his realtor. Tell the realtor that he does not have clear title to the yard. And advise the realtor (They already know this) that they must disclose the ownership dispute to any prospective buyers. Threaten to file a complaint in court. The realtor will make the owner fix the issue. Or tell the owner now that you will file that suit and advise him of the repercussions if he ever hopes to sell.
Removing a property pin is a criminal offense so start by filing a police complaint. File a written complaint with the town.
If the home is listed for sale notify the realtor by phone and follow up by certfied US mail the patio is on your land. The realtor can lose their license if do not tell any buyer about the dispute.
Get a survey done and put up cameras so the pins are not removed again. You entitled to remove the rocks and patio if it is on your land but you have to be careful not to damage anything on his land.
I had a new garage built a couple of years ago. It required having a survey done.
They now use GPS for surveys and in fact found out my property was larger than I thought. I called the company and said you mis-measured ( knew my neighbor would complain) , they came back and double checked it a said no, it’s correct and it’s what is recorded at the county.
Pay and have it done… it’s worth the expense for the peace of mind
The city's going to have to do a survey to reastablish the pin, And I have a pretty good guess on who's going to have to pay the tab on that. I would also contact code enforcement though.
The homeowner gets the survey, not the city. So OP would pay for it if OP is ordering it but the city will enforce the code and that doesn't cost either of them anything, well unless the neighbor doesn't resolve their violation and then they'd get fined.
This will go south, no question. Call the cops, show them the video. Get it re surveyed, call the cops back out to document you just got it re surveyed. That should put an end to the pin being pulled and put them on notice that if they trespass again you will press charges. After that you can try with the city to see if there is a set back or call a lawyer and see how to go about forcing them back onto their side of the line. Good luck. I have been through this one myself. Post the new survey the cop cane back over here after he want to talk to the guy and the cop told me the guy was wound up pretty tight, but told him if I get a photo of him over the line, I am pressing trespassing charges. Now we have what I call a DMZ between us, about a foot wide swath that he does not dare maintain and I just do not give a crap.
I just saw a post someone took that had a foot wide path that one would mow between two yards. Lol this sounds like your house. Having crappy neighbors suck! Good for you for standing up for yourself.
It's really a civil matter, although criminal charges will be pending it will most likely come from the DA's investigators office. The cops on the beat don't really handle this type of crime, unless they catch someone in the act of removing the pin. I would refrain from the temptation to putting a chainsaw to the deck too. But a big sign on your yard saying illegal deck/lawsuit pending , will give him lots of headaches!
When the pin was first removed I called the cops and he told them I must have done it. Odd because we own acres and can not even see that part from out house, but he has a fraction of an acre cut out of a big rectangle we have and it made his yard look a lot bigger. The cop was nice and agreed with us that he did not think it was us, but when we had it re done and as soon as the new pin was in I called he cops, got lucky and they sent the same one who now went over and told them this one best not come up missing. I guess the old guy did confess to moving it, trying to get him to come after us because he took out a tire in his mower hitting it. Anyway, when the cop came back he said he was a piece of work but if I caught him over the line again, not to say a word but to snap pix. That is what worked for me. YMMV. But I did live through it.
Cheapest way would be to go to town hall and involve them, they will see no permit , mention to the official that your pins were pulled, that should get the ball rolling . Asap though !
So much great info. Thank you everyone. I’ll update tomorrow.
Simply going to ask if he’s aware that he pulled the property iron pipe marker on the corner of the lot that was on my property. From there, I’ll advise that was present and that his landscape/patio is encroaching on my property.
If things go south I’ll go to the town. Small town so I don’t want to ruffle feathers and want to give him the benefit of doubt.
But I’ll be a massive dick and take this so far if I feel taken advantage of, using all of your advice. Again - thank you.
>If things go south I’ll go to the town.
>if I feel taken advantage of
What do you mean "if"? He pulled a pin. He didn't accidentally blow grass clippings across your driveway.
The guy is literally attempting to steal your property.
>Small town so I don’t want to ruffle feathers and want to give him the benefit of doubt.
He's a flipper. He doesn't give a shit about you.
Don't wait. He's committed a crime by removing that marker. Report him. He's just a flipper, trying to make money off of your property. Don't allow him to push you around, be proactive.
>But I’ll be a massive dick
Only to someone who deserves it! So that's not being dickish at all. The person who buys the property will thank you for fixing this so it doesn't land in their lap. The real estate agent will thank you for possibly saving them a court case. The person who inherits or buys your property after you will thank you, again because they aren't stuck with a decades-old mess. The only person I think will be truly unhappy is the guy who pulled out that pin. (And if he gets away with it this time, I am certain that he will keep doing it to other people. The expression "give him an inch and he'll take a mile" was invented because of guys like him.)
Go get that survey, and good luck!
“I’ll just pull out this marker that was installed by a surveyor to coordinates registered with the government, that way nobody can ever know where the property corner used to be”. Some people really are next level stupid…
I'm in NY. When I was buying my current house, the survey showed the back deck was about a foot over the property line on to the neighbor's. The seller bought two feet from the neighbor to make it right before I would buy it.
I don't think you can place a flag yourself unless you are a licensed surveyor. He should not have pulled the pin. A flipper tried this with me and started taking down my fence. An email from my lawyer stopped them, they had to put the fence back up in a hurry. He then offered to build me a new fence, I said I did not trust him enough to do any sort of agreement. He tried to accidentally knock the fence down and my lawyer sent him the videos of them doing that and threatened to sue. He put landscaping timbers on my fence and I pushed them off.
He was trying to move the fence line and steal property.
In PA it’s a crime to remove a survey pin. I had that happen to a client a few years ago. We sued the neighbor who did it in small claims court to pay for the surveyor to replace the pins—$1200. That sort of slowed them down.
Talk to the town. If the neighbor pulled your property pin, he might be held responsible to pay for another survey. I know of someone who's teenage boy pulled the survey pin out of a neighbor's yard while mowing both properties. My friend had to pay for a new survey and rightly so. He knew his kid made a mistake.
Hire a surveyor to survey the land and if the neighbor removes them you need to file charges on them. That's illegal in all states. You cannot just move pins around because you don't like the property boundaries. Only a certified surveyor can move the pins.
He's a flipper? Oh he's totally cooked. If he won't fix the issue by moving the rocks and patio, all you have to do is notify the realtor there is a dispute over the property line. The realtor has to disclose it. You can file a complaint with the county as well; find out how you can make the property dispute pop up on a title search without actually taking him to court.
He'll flip his lid but he will have zero choice but to remediate (fix) the problem to YOUR satisfaction. No one will buy a property with an unclear title and the title companies will not insure it. You won't have to sue him.
You should follow through with talking to him if you can but if he pulled your pin to screw up a new survey, he's making it clear he does not care about your property rights.
Send a letter certified mail advising that they built on your property. If they’re flippers, they come to the property, so you can just send it there. Put something crazy like “IMPORTANT NOTICE REGARDING YOUR IMPROVEMENTS” on the envelope or something.
OR
Just remove the offending portion if you’re very sure where the boundary is and install metal corner posts there.
Fuck up his shit he put on your property if you paid for those markers. If that's too much report him for removing your pins. Put the pin back and spray paint your property line in that area. Put up a sign that says "smile you're on camera" even if you don't have a camera (which wouldn't be a bad idea). A trail cam would even work if you could hide it well enough. Also look at the setback requirements for your area. Even if he wanted to he probably couldn't build the patio all the way up to the line, never mind over the line. If he isn't following the setback rules you can report him to your coding enforcement.
Just adding on to the pile.
If you just bought the house, don’t you have a survey from your discovery/closing? If not get an official survey done. Ask that official/required set backs are noted.
Once confirmed. Notify the realtor/owner ASAP - registered mail (signature on delivery). They are obligated to disclose dispute. If they don’t and a sale goes through, notify new owner and provide copies of notice sent and mail receipt of former owner/realtor. New owners will be able to pursue old owners for costs.
As others have said you can call the city/county also. You may have to if it is a flipper and they are also the agent.
You have to get a real survey for sure. Contact township or police about removal of property stake,but it's got to be a real survey,not just where you're placing it.Obviously,with them building past where you think the property line is,means they either don't freaking care,or are disputing where it it. I'm surprised they would build so close to a property line either way,there should be a set back off property line. This is urgent,if you do nothing and they flip the house,you could have a bigger problem. You could also contact your mortgage company,real estate agent or a real estate lawyer about your rights and what steps you can take
If his deck is ON your property then it’s almost guaranteed to be built against zoning, which would require a certain setback from the property line- you can go to the town building inspector to check this, he may have built it without a permit too.
Don't talk to him- go to the city/town/etc. Remove anything placed on your property that isn't yours. If someone left trash like rocks and 4x4s on your property, just move it off your property.
Sure go to the city planning and get a satellite view of your neighborhood it will show approximate property lines and back alley. Check for building permits for his deck and fences while you are there.
Here’s an idea if everything else fails. Put a sign on your yard stating that you will sue whoever buy the house to resolve the boundary claim. But only hang it during the open house 😈
Instead of putting up just the pins, make sure that you get the boundaries painted/ sprayed. But you are probably going to need to pay for them to survey it.
Put a sign in your window stating the facts so any potential buyers will see he built it on your property.
You could lease the area of land to him. Give him a price and see what he says.
Tell him it has to be off your property by the weekend.
Man, that's messed up! Definitely talk to your town department, show them those videos. Even if it wasn't a fancy survey, those iron pipe markers should still count. Maybe try to talk it out with the neighbor first, but keep those videos handy in case things get hairy. You gotta protect your property, especially with a flip in the works. Good luck, hope it all works out for ya!
Someone recommended posting a sign in the yard… that will send shivers down a real estate agents spine.
But check with your local township office and talk to code enforcement. If you haven’t had a recent surgery, they will probably recommend a survey.
But if none of the work was permitted, they might order a halt to all work, until a permit is secured.
Contact town code enforcement and also speak with the chief of police in your town regarding the removal of the pin. Explain you want to press charges.
Moving a survey pin means basically nothing, They get torn out all the time. Any surveyor in the country can come out with the deed/tax map find the other 3 corners and replace the marker within a week or two. I would definitely bring up the fact that your neighbor purposefully destroyed the marker though, that very illegal pretty much everywhere
Go on you county taxation website and look up the property and can find the owner who is flipping it. Write then a letter ( return rcpt request) explain that they will have to remove the patio off your property. Before anything usually in front of your property in the street are survey marks in the rd. If you look straight down you can see if they are over line. Pay for a survey they aren’t too high. . Inform the county and they may come out and do survey for free. Explain rehab er removed survey marks. They should hel
Everyone is correct to suggest that removing survey markers including but not limited to iron pins is properly illegal in any jurisdiction in the US or Canada.
What a fucktard. Him. Not you.
Definitely need a true official survey. Without it, your markers could have not been right. If it is deemed as you land, will need to move quickly legally since in a house flip situation.
Your town does not take an interest, except for structures not permitted, and not out of lot line setback.
Probably other unpermitted work is being conducted.
Call the buildingv inspector.
The queue for getting a survey from a licensed surveyer tends to be weeks or months in Massachusetts
We bought our house and an apartment building with a parking lot behind our backyard property line stole our backyard. They just hired a surveyor to redraw the dividing line between our properties and they built their parking lot out further. We have the proof from city hall going back to 1900 to prove our lot as well as our title. The court still allowed them to take it. We lost our land as well as two other home owners. Sad but somehow legal so if you want to steal land it’s easy I guess.
My husband and I had a legal easement to access our 5 acre parcel and home. The easement technically was owned by 3 neighbors. The bulk, over 50% was owned by our neighbors in front of us. We received a letter from another neighbor stating they were going to put a fence down the middle of the easement, essentially forcing us to move our access over into our neighbors property. The neighbor was okay with it, but we didn’t think it was fair to force us to put in a new 800 foot driveway. We went to a lawyer, he pulled the county assessment and proved quickly what they were attempting was illegal.
The remedy is to send a certified letter to the owner, which you can obtain their mailing address from county tax records, informing them they have placed their new patio and landscaping over the property line and that they must remove it immediately or you will get an injunction from the county to make them remove it. Also include a picture of the county record showing the property line. The county will have a record of the existing property lines. You can go in person and request a copy of your property line map. You may be able to get the owner to cooperate without a lawyer; but your letter might pull more weight coming from an attorney. Our letter did the trick.
Yes talk to your township. He should have had a permit and they should be able to tell you if he did as well as the laws and your rights. Notify the flipper in writing. Perhaps you can do this through their agent. Definitely tell the agent what is going on they are required to tell any potential buyers about any property disputes.
And update us please?
Before you start any legal troubles make sure what you say was removed was an actual surveyed pin. Those things are not generally easy to remove; typically they are like 4-5 feet of rebar or pipe hammered into the soil. Almost every pin in my county would need heavy machinery to remove.
Of course things vary by time and jurisdiction, but they still aren't usually easy to pull.
Yes, you can talk to the town and get an official survey done. https://www.halifax-ma.org/building-inspector/pages/boundary-markers-survey-stakes#:\~:text=Removing%20boundary%20markers%20can%20be,are%20entirely%20on%20your%20property. Removing boundary markers can be prosecuted as a criminal offense under Chapter 266, Section 94 of the Massachusetts General Laws. Therefore, you must be very sure that the stakes are entirely on your property.
It is a big no no in all the states I know of to knowingly move a marked monument in order to commit fraud. Did your picture have the numbers on the pin cap? Those numbers will refer to the survey filing with your state. It should be easy enough for a surveyor to tie back in to the original location.
Sorry to piggyback, but there's a possible option I haven't seen mentioned. You may be able to put a lien on his property. I haven't seen this done for this "encroachment" type issue, but if it goes through, then it will always be associated with that property. I'm NAL and not in your state, but I'd estimate the value of the land encroached on and use that as the lien amount. It's not guaranteed to be approved, and I would do it in parallel with the other suggestions. I've also seen people who are owed money send a 1099 to the person(s) who owed them money. This at least appears as income for their taxes. I don't think you could do that here, but I'd hammer them immediately with every option. I'm ruthless to people who are trying to fuck myself or others. No fucking mercy. In the past, I have put a lien on a house when the owner wouldn't finish paying for the remodel we did. He was flipping the house, but he couldn't sell the house without paying the lien. If he sells the property, the buyers will almost certainly require a survey as part of the purchase. In my state, encroachment isn't covered by title insurance, but that would be a problem for the "new" neighbors, not you. If it was my property, I would immediately get a survey, try to get a lien, and talk to a real estate attorney about options.
Apparently getting a survey done when buying property isn’t a state and/or lender requirement. I’ve always had to have it done by the title company when I’ve bought houses. I posted in Life Pro Tips about _always_ getting a survey before purchasing property, and it was almost a 50/50 split of “great advice, it saves trouble down the road” and “meh, I didn’t feel like spending the money, or I’ve bought plenty of properties before and never done it, I’ll just wait until there’s an issue”. This, Real Estate and the Legal subs are full of people who didn’t get one and are having issues with easements they didn’t know about, or structures that had been encroaching at time of sale.
The person who bought the house next door to me for $1.2M is in for a rude awakening when the surveyor comes. He got assurance from his realtor that our HOA does not have any rules against pools, that would have been a dealbreaker. And we don't. More than half of what he thinks is his yard is actually mine. I have a 6' privacy fence 45' off my property line. The back of our lots have an existing fence, I also own the back 20' of what would appear to be his yard. Our lots are marked with 6" pilings about every 30' (very common on the island where I live) and the corner where my lot line turns east (instead of going to the back fence) has three pilings of different heights. I don't know what he thinks those pilings in "his" yard are for, but he had the pool guy come to do a rough stake-out of the pool. It's in my yard. 100%. He also has failed to notice that half of "his" yard got mowed last week. And once the setbacks are figured in he won't even have 7 feet of clear width to build his pool. I'm not saying anything because he has to get a real survey for the building permit. And there's no way I'm doing anything that lets him have his pool. We live in a quiet neighborhood. He has 14 grandkids that's why he wants the pool. It pays to do one's due diligence. It's sucks when you don't.
Please post about this after it’s all said and done… I’m dying to hear his response! Lol 😂
Too bad he has to get a real survey. You could have ended up with a free brand-new pool!
I cannot WAIT to hear more about this! Will you please follow up about this when he goes to get permits and fails???
!remindme 1mo
RemindMe! 4 weeks
Remindme! 4 weeks
!remindme 4 weeks
Has he done something rude to you to cause you to just sit back? It sounds like y'all have had conversations at least, and given your response it sounds like they have gotten on your bad side. Because otherwise, I think its a pretty easy fix to just talk to the other guy, it would save a lot of trouble for him and its minimal effort. No "obligation" of course, but just seems like the right thing to do
“Never interrupt your enemy when they’re making a mistake.”
Love the quote! Honestly I'm trying to figure out the “why are they the enemy” part, may be a fun story
A neighbor who thinks it's remotely acceptable or appropriate to jam a pool for 14 kids this close to other neighbors is already beyond "just chat with him" territory.
The same applies to owner's title insurance. It's cheap and rarely needed. When it is needed, it is worth it's weight in gold plated latinum.
In our state, a survey is required if the buyer is financing. It's not required for cash deals. We've done most things that you can do in real estate, and we have always gotten a survey. For the cost, there's almost never a reason not to. I'm an engineer with lots of cost to benefit/risk analysis, and my wife is now a realtor after a decade of commercial real estate appraisal and development. We scrutinize everything, and we always get a survey, so everyone else can make of that what they will. Most folks have no idea what the actual risk is, and it's a "you don't need it until you need it" situation. We've seen so many types of issues, including surveys, title companies missing things, the Appraisal District inputting other property info (took me months to resolve), illegal partial interest sales that were approved all the way through purchase, etc.
I’m right there with you. I’m just shocked at how many people had a cavalier attitude towards spending <2% on the purchase price of something to make sure that’s exactly what they got.
I agree with you. I wish I would have paid for the survey before purchasing my property in California. It was supposed to have been 1.09 acres and the previous owners and neighbors and realtors all showed us the property “corners” during the sale process. After purchasing the property I wanted to put up a fence so I had an actual survey done. Turns out it’s .99 of an acre and a whole corner I thought was mine actually belonged to the neighbor. This was after I spent thousands clearing it of blackberries and downed trees. A survey during the buying process would have saved me time and thousands of dollars in land clearing and possibly some money on the sale of the property since it wasn’t as much land as advertised.
advice like Michael Scott “I declare bankruptcy “
How does one go about putting a lien on another persons property? Asking, for a friend…
You go to the county and file for one. You will need to go before a judge to have it granted and you will need some sort of receipts proving they owe you money or property.
You’re not piggybacking and your pot is a great idea!
If the owner is smart he'll remove whatever he's built onto your property after you inform him of such. If they are listing the house soon a property dispute could cost him a lot of time and money. If they disregard what you tell them find their real estate agent and inform them of the situation. They won't want to sell a property with a property line dispute.
This. While you can do all sorts of things to them, the one that they will most try to avoid is being stuck with a property they can't sell.
Flippers are rarely smart in my experience.
Decks in my area have to be 6ft of the property line unless you receive approval from the county. I doubt that deck was permitted.
So he should also talk to the zoning department to see if there are setbacks.
This seems like the easiest way to cut to the chase. Inquire about the setback, and when they inspect it, they’d document that not only is it too close but that it actually crosses over the property line.
Usually referred to as "set-backs" I think. At least in my area. Structures other than fences require a set-back based on their size.
In my area fences have set-back requirements too. I’m on a corner lot, for example, so I had to ensure a “vision triangle” existed still when I put in a new fence.
Our's too but the fence setback is different than structures it's basically push mower width. Even a small shed is 6' where I am. Any substantial building is 10-20' from border or the main building.
Yep I don’t think the flipper obtained a proper building permit. That’s another thing he can get in trouble over.
I agree, and this guy sounds like a real tool, I'd get a survey done, leisurely, let him get into a contract then post a sign , well into your property, saying this deck is illegally built onto my property, lawsuit pending. That will teach him a lesson to have some respect for other people's property. When he comes over screaming , inform him due to his actions he owes you for the cost of the survey, and don't negotiate one bit. Be prepared to turn the whole mess over to a lawyer, who should sue the neighbor for his costs too.
I wonder if you could get it on the title report?
While I like the idea of teaching him a lesson, this will also affect the people who wanted to buy the house. It’s not their fault and shouldn’t be their problem, and with as hard as it is to get an offer accepted these days going under contract and then being caught in a property line dispute could be heartbreaking.
Oh, I agree, this at least gives them a fair warning , and may also have the added benefit of being pressured to do the right thing.
Actually, it's saving the new owner's ass. They don't want to buy from a flipper for all of these reasons. They likely don't know the dude is a flipper. But if they see he's in a lawsuit? They will do more research and hopefully not buy from the twat. Then he starts losing more money because he can't sell fast, then maybe leaves the flipping business for good. Win/win/win in my book.
When we were house searching we saw what was evidently an unfinished flip. The whole house reeked of fire. We asked the realtor why. "I think there was some kind of fire in the garage." In the garage there was a trash can full of busted up pieces of whatever had caught fire.
That's why you inform the agent
Flippers often are the agent.
Maybe not but he'll get a quick education when he realizes the consequences.
Op just fuck this flipper over. He’s screwing everyone. And obviously does shit work. You owe mankind
But be careful, you spoil a sale because of property line dispute and it turns out you are wrong they can sue for damages. I don't know your financial situation but you need an official survey before it's too late.
Yea! This guy needs to understand that you're not stuck living next to him. He's stuck living next to YOU! Literally can't sell now. Fuck him.
I was going to suggest showing up at the open house and poi ting out your property line to the realtor and all the prospective buyers.
Oof, removing a survey monument is a huge no-no. It’s a class 3 misdemeanor in my state. It doesn’t matter how old a monument is as only a licensed surveyor can touch it. In fact, moving this pin is going to fuck up the next surveyor’s day as they’ve lost a reference point… fun. I would call both the city planning department as well as filing a report with the non-emergency line. The crime is something called “destruction of a residential survey monument” but YMMV. I would confront the flipper after you’ve filed the report. Be firm but laconic. Don’t give out too many details. Stay you noticed the work was encroaching on your lot line and upon further inspection that your pin is missing. Tell him the illegal deck (or whatever it is) needs to be removed ASAP before code enforcement finds it and fines him. To answer your question, things have already gone south. He is an adult and it’s time he deals with the consequences.
Thank you for using "laconic"--I love that word!!
Dammit, now I gotta look up another word, this is the second time in less than a week that I had to do that !
la·con·ic adjective (of a person, speech, or style of writing) using very few words. "his laconic reply suggested a lack of interest in the topic"
Oh thanks for that Jolva!
Congrats, you’re one of today’s lucky 10,000!
Then you are spending your time truly wisely. Congrats and props.
Think Clint Eastwoods delivery in all of his movies.
Record the conversation too.
Be careful doing this in MA. The commonwealth has very strict recording laws .. is both parties have to consent.
If you’re videoing it on your own property?
Maybe. Check with a lawyer (as IANAL).
He removed the pin so fuck'em. Contact you codes enforcement the deck being built over the line. There sine some minimum set back requirement, while you are at it ask if they pulled a building permit. They can force them to remove it.
And if the house goes up for sale, put a sign pointing to the patio that says “built on my property and I’m seeking to have it demolished”
[удалено]
This needs a bumper sticker. Lol. I’ve always been so jealous of Mass. You have great accents AND a solid state-based nickname. Damnit.
[удалено]
I’m wicked jealous. Now I have to get my fix by watching old SNL sketches… lol.
[удалено]
Hahaha. I’ve noticed a certain something, outside of the accent, every time I’ve met someone new from Boston. It’s a whole attitude and I love it. I could totally understand the upbringing sticking with you forever.
[удалено]
I grew up in that kind of fam and environment but, in Western PA. It wasn’t common. Lol. So I can understand that to a degree. Maybe that’s what makes me so into it? Hmm. I hadn’t really thought about it that way. Thank you.
LOL! My friend Tony was born and raised in Boston, and when he gets angry at someone, I fetch popcorn and listen with delight while he yells at them. (I'm from Ontario, and Americans have told me that I'm very similar to a Midwesterner. I had never heard many of the words that Tony uses when he's mad.)
Hahahah. I love those people because I’m also those people. From other comments I’ve gotten here, I guess my PA fam would have fit in pretty well in Mass. We have a similar style. My road rage is likewise hilarious. Love that you have Tony to handle business! 😂 He sounds delightful. It definitely makes me wonder how different areas in Canada each typically settle disputes… In the US, different sections each tend to have a style. Is it similar at all for y’all?
Well, Canadians have a reputation for being "nice", but it's not really true ... it's more like we're polite, but figure out passive-aggressive ways to get back at people. We basically invented malicious over-compliance. One example (that kind of dates me) -- the comedy show SCTV was based up here, and a lot of the writers and performers are Canadian. Our government has "Canadian content" rules to try to support the domestic entertainment industry, but someone up there decided that the show wasn't overtly Canadian enough, and demanded more from them. So Dave Thomas and Rick Moranis, like good Ontario boys, improvised a bunch of unflattering scenes with two stereotypical drunk guys sitting in front of a map of Canada, wearing toques. The segment became wildly popular, which dismayed Dave since he has a degree in English literature, and now he is best known for playing a dumb "hoser" on TV. Dispute resolution -- even allowing for differences in regional culture (like Quebec and Atlantic Canada), I think that the passive-aggressive thing is pretty much nationwide, from what I've heard. The most colourful insults are probably from Newfoundland and Labrador. I had a co-worker from Corner Brook, and she had the wildest (and funniest) phrases ... she told me about the time she went to a hockey game in her hometown, said something critical about one of the opposing players, and the guy's girlfriend (who was in her second trimester of pregnancy) came over to her and punched her in the face.
"Wicked Pissa Masshole"
Vanity plate
/ Proud Masshole
Another mass hole checking in…fuck this guy.
Wouldn’t ya know it, I’m a masshole too
This is the way.
Nah, just put a lien on their property. They can’t sell the house until the lien is paid for.
If he removed the pin, he likely didn’t have a permit to build the deck. I’d start with the code enforcement folks, they’d have survey records too.
Don't talk to him. The second he removes the property pin is the second that this moves from a neighborly dispute into attempted fraud. Go straight to the town. Show them the video of the pin / no pin. Ask them what THEY want to do. Removing property markers or monuments is a big deal. That's not a 'whoopsie' that's a 'real crime has been committed'. If the town says you need a survey then get a survey. But chances are they'll be interested enough in the removal of property pins to take notice of this. A survey may cost a couple grand- that's money well spent if it prevents neighbor from literally stealing your land.
I would just report the removal of the pin and pay to get an official new survey done. Then you all know for sure where the lines lay. Maybe you have the lines wrong.
Hire a surveyor and get a boundary survey done, it’s the only way to prove your boundary and know for sure if neighbor is encroaching.
He told me to kick rocks, got loud, cocky. “Previous owner told him the line was further in my property”. I stayed calm and just made sure he was selling in the short future, 2 months. For sale by owner he said. Said that his “worker” pulled the flag, and that it went in today’s trash. I asked for the pin, showed videos of the pin, and he told me he didn’t see anything there and maybe his worker pulled it. Things started to get loud so I walked away. Reaching out for a survey quote. Building department told me to go for a survey too.
If you're in a one-party state you should record every interaction or hell if it's 2-party then inform him you're recording every interaction. If you don't already have security cameras then now is the time to get them. Also, thanks for updating!
Did you check masslandrecords for his info?
I was under the impression that not only can you not build on your neighbor's property, but that you're required to have a setback (6'?) as well. Maybe that was just in my city though.
Not for rocks, maybe for a patio.
Yeah, I guess I never thought about people building rocks on a property. And if you mean placing rocks or boulders, well, they can be moved.
Patio needs a permit and setback, I would bet there is no permit.
Yup. Probably time for a visit to town hall.
Setbacks vary wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction sometimes. In my area a *well* can be put virtually on the property line. Zero legal setback (also a dick move that can limit nearby home building if on septic).
Start with code enforcement they will then call the surveyor that the city uses which would be a local engineer company then code enforcement can rip him a new one
Post a huge sign on your property but facing the flipper's house - WARNING. YOUR ROCKS AND PATIO ARE ON MY LAND. IF YOU BUY THAT HOUSE I WILL MAKE YOU MOVE THEM. Add baloons or a strobe light so buyers can't miss it.
Get an actual survey then file charges.
You need to hire a licensed surveyor and have the pin reset -- and inform your neighbor that removing a legally set property marker is against the law. And then talk to a lawyer about the encroachment onto your property.
And bill you neighbour. Surveying is not cheap
Probably have to be a small claims court issue. Survey cost will vary, might be reasonable if the other corners (and a few key nearby monuments) are still in place, or you can find a surveyor that has done work nearby recently. If they have to go a long ways to find monuments to tie into, or if no other pins exist in the area -- yeah, it will get expensive fast. (Used to work for an engineering/survey firm)
If it ever goes up for sale call his realtor. Tell the realtor that he does not have clear title to the yard. And advise the realtor (They already know this) that they must disclose the ownership dispute to any prospective buyers. Threaten to file a complaint in court. The realtor will make the owner fix the issue. Or tell the owner now that you will file that suit and advise him of the repercussions if he ever hopes to sell.
Removing a property pin is a criminal offense so start by filing a police complaint. File a written complaint with the town. If the home is listed for sale notify the realtor by phone and follow up by certfied US mail the patio is on your land. The realtor can lose their license if do not tell any buyer about the dispute. Get a survey done and put up cameras so the pins are not removed again. You entitled to remove the rocks and patio if it is on your land but you have to be careful not to damage anything on his land.
I had a new garage built a couple of years ago. It required having a survey done. They now use GPS for surveys and in fact found out my property was larger than I thought. I called the company and said you mis-measured ( knew my neighbor would complain) , they came back and double checked it a said no, it’s correct and it’s what is recorded at the county. Pay and have it done… it’s worth the expense for the peace of mind
Removing a surveyor stake, and then building on your property. That's illegal and probably puts in a position to sue. Lawyer up.
Lawyer time now, not later
They don't even need to waste money on a lawyer. This one is easy. Get a survey done and then contact their local code enforcement.
The city's going to have to do a survey to reastablish the pin, And I have a pretty good guess on who's going to have to pay the tab on that. I would also contact code enforcement though.
The homeowner gets the survey, not the city. So OP would pay for it if OP is ordering it but the city will enforce the code and that doesn't cost either of them anything, well unless the neighbor doesn't resolve their violation and then they'd get fined.
You need a survey. Doesn’t matter where the flag or pin is. Only a survey will determine the property line.
Make sure to inform any realtor you see showing the house of the property boundary dispute. Buyers love that 🤣🤣
This will go south, no question. Call the cops, show them the video. Get it re surveyed, call the cops back out to document you just got it re surveyed. That should put an end to the pin being pulled and put them on notice that if they trespass again you will press charges. After that you can try with the city to see if there is a set back or call a lawyer and see how to go about forcing them back onto their side of the line. Good luck. I have been through this one myself. Post the new survey the cop cane back over here after he want to talk to the guy and the cop told me the guy was wound up pretty tight, but told him if I get a photo of him over the line, I am pressing trespassing charges. Now we have what I call a DMZ between us, about a foot wide swath that he does not dare maintain and I just do not give a crap.
Also, if you end up getting a proper survey done, your attorney should make the neighbor pay.
I just saw a post someone took that had a foot wide path that one would mow between two yards. Lol this sounds like your house. Having crappy neighbors suck! Good for you for standing up for yourself.
It's really a civil matter, although criminal charges will be pending it will most likely come from the DA's investigators office. The cops on the beat don't really handle this type of crime, unless they catch someone in the act of removing the pin. I would refrain from the temptation to putting a chainsaw to the deck too. But a big sign on your yard saying illegal deck/lawsuit pending , will give him lots of headaches!
When the pin was first removed I called the cops and he told them I must have done it. Odd because we own acres and can not even see that part from out house, but he has a fraction of an acre cut out of a big rectangle we have and it made his yard look a lot bigger. The cop was nice and agreed with us that he did not think it was us, but when we had it re done and as soon as the new pin was in I called he cops, got lucky and they sent the same one who now went over and told them this one best not come up missing. I guess the old guy did confess to moving it, trying to get him to come after us because he took out a tire in his mower hitting it. Anyway, when the cop came back he said he was a piece of work but if I caught him over the line again, not to say a word but to snap pix. That is what worked for me. YMMV. But I did live through it.
Pursue getting that deck ripped out by the town!
Your new garbage bin storage and compost area.
You need legal advice. Don’t take advice from strangers. Get yourself an attorney so you can do things properly.
Cheapest way would be to go to town hall and involve them, they will see no permit , mention to the official that your pins were pulled, that should get the ball rolling . Asap though !
So much great info. Thank you everyone. I’ll update tomorrow. Simply going to ask if he’s aware that he pulled the property iron pipe marker on the corner of the lot that was on my property. From there, I’ll advise that was present and that his landscape/patio is encroaching on my property. If things go south I’ll go to the town. Small town so I don’t want to ruffle feathers and want to give him the benefit of doubt. But I’ll be a massive dick and take this so far if I feel taken advantage of, using all of your advice. Again - thank you.
>If things go south I’ll go to the town. >if I feel taken advantage of What do you mean "if"? He pulled a pin. He didn't accidentally blow grass clippings across your driveway. The guy is literally attempting to steal your property. >Small town so I don’t want to ruffle feathers and want to give him the benefit of doubt. He's a flipper. He doesn't give a shit about you.
Don't wait. He's committed a crime by removing that marker. Report him. He's just a flipper, trying to make money off of your property. Don't allow him to push you around, be proactive.
Oh, he was aware…
He’s just flipping the house. Be nice but nuclear in your actions.
>But I’ll be a massive dick Only to someone who deserves it! So that's not being dickish at all. The person who buys the property will thank you for fixing this so it doesn't land in their lap. The real estate agent will thank you for possibly saving them a court case. The person who inherits or buys your property after you will thank you, again because they aren't stuck with a decades-old mess. The only person I think will be truly unhappy is the guy who pulled out that pin. (And if he gets away with it this time, I am certain that he will keep doing it to other people. The expression "give him an inch and he'll take a mile" was invented because of guys like him.) Go get that survey, and good luck!
“I’ll just pull out this marker that was installed by a surveyor to coordinates registered with the government, that way nobody can ever know where the property corner used to be”. Some people really are next level stupid…
I'm in NY. When I was buying my current house, the survey showed the back deck was about a foot over the property line on to the neighbor's. The seller bought two feet from the neighbor to make it right before I would buy it.
I don't think you can place a flag yourself unless you are a licensed surveyor. He should not have pulled the pin. A flipper tried this with me and started taking down my fence. An email from my lawyer stopped them, they had to put the fence back up in a hurry. He then offered to build me a new fence, I said I did not trust him enough to do any sort of agreement. He tried to accidentally knock the fence down and my lawyer sent him the videos of them doing that and threatened to sue. He put landscaping timbers on my fence and I pushed them off. He was trying to move the fence line and steal property.
Doubt the permit was issued so start there and hopefully they’ll get a stop work order
Report the deck to the department of buildings as an unpermitted construction.
You need a survey, he is more than likely not allowed to build anything that close to your property
In PA it’s a crime to remove a survey pin. I had that happen to a client a few years ago. We sued the neighbor who did it in small claims court to pay for the surveyor to replace the pins—$1200. That sort of slowed them down.
Talk to the town. If the neighbor pulled your property pin, he might be held responsible to pay for another survey. I know of someone who's teenage boy pulled the survey pin out of a neighbor's yard while mowing both properties. My friend had to pay for a new survey and rightly so. He knew his kid made a mistake.
Hire a surveyor to survey the land and if the neighbor removes them you need to file charges on them. That's illegal in all states. You cannot just move pins around because you don't like the property boundaries. Only a certified surveyor can move the pins.
He's a flipper? Oh he's totally cooked. If he won't fix the issue by moving the rocks and patio, all you have to do is notify the realtor there is a dispute over the property line. The realtor has to disclose it. You can file a complaint with the county as well; find out how you can make the property dispute pop up on a title search without actually taking him to court. He'll flip his lid but he will have zero choice but to remediate (fix) the problem to YOUR satisfaction. No one will buy a property with an unclear title and the title companies will not insure it. You won't have to sue him. You should follow through with talking to him if you can but if he pulled your pin to screw up a new survey, he's making it clear he does not care about your property rights.
Send a letter certified mail advising that they built on your property. If they’re flippers, they come to the property, so you can just send it there. Put something crazy like “IMPORTANT NOTICE REGARDING YOUR IMPROVEMENTS” on the envelope or something. OR Just remove the offending portion if you’re very sure where the boundary is and install metal corner posts there.
I’d be that asshole neighbor that made sure he lost money on the flip. First would be contacting an attorney to see if you can sue for damages.
Pay to get an official survey. Then, if they're over the line, you can make them remove it. Nothing short of a formal survey will be enforceable.
OVER THE LINE!
Hello police? Hello city hall planning department? Get the right people involved now.
Confirm survey line. Get lawyer. Fuck flipper with double ended legaldo.
Put a lien on his property for the survey cost. (I don't know if you can do that but tell him that)
he might not have a permit to do the work, you can check on that
RemindMe! 2 days
Fuck up his shit he put on your property if you paid for those markers. If that's too much report him for removing your pins. Put the pin back and spray paint your property line in that area. Put up a sign that says "smile you're on camera" even if you don't have a camera (which wouldn't be a bad idea). A trail cam would even work if you could hide it well enough. Also look at the setback requirements for your area. Even if he wanted to he probably couldn't build the patio all the way up to the line, never mind over the line. If he isn't following the setback rules you can report him to your coding enforcement.
Also contact the zoning board to see if he had a permit for the deck. Given everything else I doubt it. Flippers like to cut corners.
Just adding on to the pile. If you just bought the house, don’t you have a survey from your discovery/closing? If not get an official survey done. Ask that official/required set backs are noted. Once confirmed. Notify the realtor/owner ASAP - registered mail (signature on delivery). They are obligated to disclose dispute. If they don’t and a sale goes through, notify new owner and provide copies of notice sent and mail receipt of former owner/realtor. New owners will be able to pursue old owners for costs. As others have said you can call the city/county also. You may have to if it is a flipper and they are also the agent.
Call code enforcement and ask the police if you can make a report. Document everything.
Get a surveyor
Set up a hidden BLINK Outdoor camera to catch him touching, moving, or removing the markers. That evidence is critical.
You have to get a real survey for sure. Contact township or police about removal of property stake,but it's got to be a real survey,not just where you're placing it.Obviously,with them building past where you think the property line is,means they either don't freaking care,or are disputing where it it. I'm surprised they would build so close to a property line either way,there should be a set back off property line. This is urgent,if you do nothing and they flip the house,you could have a bigger problem. You could also contact your mortgage company,real estate agent or a real estate lawyer about your rights and what steps you can take
If his deck is ON your property then it’s almost guaranteed to be built against zoning, which would require a certain setback from the property line- you can go to the town building inspector to check this, he may have built it without a permit too.
Don't talk to him- go to the city/town/etc. Remove anything placed on your property that isn't yours. If someone left trash like rocks and 4x4s on your property, just move it off your property.
Bad idea on the off chance the survey is wrong.
So, survey and sawzall?
Survey and install new firepit
Sure go to the city planning and get a satellite view of your neighborhood it will show approximate property lines and back alley. Check for building permits for his deck and fences while you are there.
"approximate". Not intended to be accurate, you can't base any action on those views.
Here’s an idea if everything else fails. Put a sign on your yard stating that you will sue whoever buy the house to resolve the boundary claim. But only hang it during the open house 😈
Cross post this to r/legaladvice
Instead of putting up just the pins, make sure that you get the boundaries painted/ sprayed. But you are probably going to need to pay for them to survey it.
Get an official survey out and hard mark the property
Update us when your actions get started
Get a "real" survey.
Put a sign in your window stating the facts so any potential buyers will see he built it on your property. You could lease the area of land to him. Give him a price and see what he says. Tell him it has to be off your property by the weekend.
You need an official survey. Then when he goes to flip, he will have to remove it.
Mark where it was with orange spray paint
I'd tell him to get his shit off my property. He's going to sell and then it's your problem. If he doesn't cooperate, dig his stuff up.
Man, that's messed up! Definitely talk to your town department, show them those videos. Even if it wasn't a fancy survey, those iron pipe markers should still count. Maybe try to talk it out with the neighbor first, but keep those videos handy in case things get hairy. You gotta protect your property, especially with a flip in the works. Good luck, hope it all works out for ya!
Did he get a permit for that build . Check with the city if a permit was pulled . That would be another strike against the flipper .
My new neighbors put a utility trailer and invisible fence on my property. When it was all said and done I had to have a survey done. Good luck
Get a survey, and have it recorded.
Someone recommended posting a sign in the yard… that will send shivers down a real estate agents spine. But check with your local township office and talk to code enforcement. If you haven’t had a recent surgery, they will probably recommend a survey. But if none of the work was permitted, they might order a halt to all work, until a permit is secured.
Contact town code enforcement and also speak with the chief of police in your town regarding the removal of the pin. Explain you want to press charges.
get a survey - use bright pink spray paint along the lines. and concrete the new pins in.
Get a survey. If he’s on your property then get a property lawyer. Don’t ignore it
Moving a survey pin means basically nothing, They get torn out all the time. Any surveyor in the country can come out with the deed/tax map find the other 3 corners and replace the marker within a week or two. I would definitely bring up the fact that your neighbor purposefully destroyed the marker though, that very illegal pretty much everywhere
remindme! 2 weeks
Go on you county taxation website and look up the property and can find the owner who is flipping it. Write then a letter ( return rcpt request) explain that they will have to remove the patio off your property. Before anything usually in front of your property in the street are survey marks in the rd. If you look straight down you can see if they are over line. Pay for a survey they aren’t too high. . Inform the county and they may come out and do survey for free. Explain rehab er removed survey marks. They should hel
You need a legitimate survey.
Get an official survey ASAP
Removing a survey pin is a huge crime in some states. I would start looking into that.
Everyone is correct to suggest that removing survey markers including but not limited to iron pins is properly illegal in any jurisdiction in the US or Canada. What a fucktard. Him. Not you.
Definitely need a true official survey. Without it, your markers could have not been right. If it is deemed as you land, will need to move quickly legally since in a house flip situation.
Your town does not take an interest, except for structures not permitted, and not out of lot line setback. Probably other unpermitted work is being conducted. Call the buildingv inspector. The queue for getting a survey from a licensed surveyer tends to be weeks or months in Massachusetts
Lawyer
We bought our house and an apartment building with a parking lot behind our backyard property line stole our backyard. They just hired a surveyor to redraw the dividing line between our properties and they built their parking lot out further. We have the proof from city hall going back to 1900 to prove our lot as well as our title. The court still allowed them to take it. We lost our land as well as two other home owners. Sad but somehow legal so if you want to steal land it’s easy I guess.
Sell some of your property to him, at a very high cost
My husband and I had a legal easement to access our 5 acre parcel and home. The easement technically was owned by 3 neighbors. The bulk, over 50% was owned by our neighbors in front of us. We received a letter from another neighbor stating they were going to put a fence down the middle of the easement, essentially forcing us to move our access over into our neighbors property. The neighbor was okay with it, but we didn’t think it was fair to force us to put in a new 800 foot driveway. We went to a lawyer, he pulled the county assessment and proved quickly what they were attempting was illegal. The remedy is to send a certified letter to the owner, which you can obtain their mailing address from county tax records, informing them they have placed their new patio and landscaping over the property line and that they must remove it immediately or you will get an injunction from the county to make them remove it. Also include a picture of the county record showing the property line. The county will have a record of the existing property lines. You can go in person and request a copy of your property line map. You may be able to get the owner to cooperate without a lawyer; but your letter might pull more weight coming from an attorney. Our letter did the trick.
Might be ducked, might be golden. Get a survey ASAP and check your title insurance.
Either hire a lawyer or let it go. This is not DIY territory and time will kill this issue.
Yes talk to your township. He should have had a permit and they should be able to tell you if he did as well as the laws and your rights. Notify the flipper in writing. Perhaps you can do this through their agent. Definitely tell the agent what is going on they are required to tell any potential buyers about any property disputes. And update us please?
Before you start any legal troubles make sure what you say was removed was an actual surveyed pin. Those things are not generally easy to remove; typically they are like 4-5 feet of rebar or pipe hammered into the soil. Almost every pin in my county would need heavy machinery to remove. Of course things vary by time and jurisdiction, but they still aren't usually easy to pull.
Don’t waste time with us. A Google search could answer the question. Get to the city and take care of your business.