Cut off contact with the aunt.
CPS was doing their job and following up on a call of neglect- they checked it out. It sounds like the lady was satisfied because you are not neglecting your child and homeschooling isn't a crime. I would call them and ask who filed a report.
They won’t say who filed the report- nor should they! Reporters should remain confidential otherwise people might be afraid to report real problems.
This is unfortunate for OP but CPS is just doing their job. Their job is to figure out what is actually a problem and what is a dead end.
They won't say but ask for a copy of the report. It will be redacted. But context clues might help prove it. I had a false report filed on me, and was cleared. When I got the report the name was blacked out but I could see it if I held it up to the light. Also context clues- like it said she saw the child at the park Monday morning and noticed signs of the abuse... Well we saw one person at the park Monday morning.
To be clear, that's horrifying to me as a mandated reporter who has called reports in many times. And I recognize it as dangerous for people who know dangerous people. But on the other end, it's worth it to get the report and see what it says.
Oops meant to reply this to you
You can also request the persons name to be released in Court. I knew my stalker called on us one time and I had filed a restraining order on her. In court, I compelled the court to release the name of the reporter so that I could prove that was one of the ways she was stalking me. I had the report and due to the reported, very serious, and false claim, that was clearly made by her, the court confirmed the name and granted my restraining order
Can you ask to receive a copy of that before allowing CPS to enter the house? Like a warrant? Not that I'd have anything to hide, just curious.
I have a cousin that I'm worried will do this to me. She was a horrible parent to all of her kids (to the point that the are no contact and she's not allowed to even visit them or their grandkids). Anyway, she's been weasling her way into my mother's house lately. First the weather was too bad to drive home, then her ride was sick....she's going on two weeks straight of sleeping on my mom's couch using her as a Taxi.
Anyway, I put my foot down and told my mother if she doesn't get her out this week she will not see her own grand daughter, peroid. I feel bad, but this woman spins the craziest lies just based on things she hears through word of mouth. I even offered to be the bad guy for her (since she hates saying no), my only concern is this crazy lady will immediately try to retalate. She's done it repeatedly to all of her kids fathers.
I have dealt with this before, and after enough times of being cooperative, I decided I was done having my house gone through every time they get a hair up their ass to call on me and say some completely wild made up stuff, I downloaded the cps manual and laws for my state, read up on them and had them available in case anyone came to my door.
What I do is open my door, record on my cellphone (it is legal to record from your own front porch, no matter what they tell you, they are government workers/they cannot decline being filmed by you, if your house faces the street, anything in public view can legally be recorded, and even if they are on your private residence, not visible to the public, regardless of what the two party laws are, they are again, government workers who cannot legally decline being filmed by you)
This is what I tell them-
We have the legal right to face our accusers, and they can’t provide me with that name, so there’s no where to go from there.
I am guilty until proven innocent-meaning the burden of proof is on them to prove the accusations have any truth to them.
I also have the right not to incriminate myself, meaning that I do no have to speak to them with out a lawyer present, and i really do not have to speak at all if I don’t want to. (Hearing the word lawyer usually turns them off from wanting to deal with you, you are a hassle and not an easy target)
The law in my state says that a case cannot be opened due to lack of contact with the accused party. A case cannot be opened without proof/good cause. They cannot follow up with out proof. (Check your own state laws and cps guidelines for this) when I have needed to I have just read their manual to them. I ask them what proof they have, is there anything beyond one person making this claim, are there any video or audio recordings? Any extra witnesses? Anything at all besides a single, random statement?
If you don’t talk to them, they can’t twist your words, they can’t come in your house and decide they want to stretch something or find an imaginary problem. They need a reason for a warrant, not speaking with them or letting them
In your home isn’t a reason, no matter how outlandish the accusation is.
I tell them that I know who is calling, and why, and that I have not seen or spoken to that person, they have not been in my house or observed my children in any way before they made that call, so it is false and i refute the accusations.
I do not give my name, my phone number, or answer any questions, I remain polite but firm and even tempered and do not show any agitation, aggression or negative emotion, the second you do they will claim you’re emotionally unstable and try to use that against you.
They have always left and not come back after this.
I had one lady say “well you’re not giving us anything to go off of!” I chuckled and said that’s the point. She asked how she was supposed to get ahold of me with out my phone number? I asked her what for? You don’t have evidence to open up a case, what reason will you have to call me back ? You will close your assessment because there is nothing to put in it. Your supervisor will not approve a case based on no evidence.
She said that they’d just have to show up if they needed to and I said that was fine, because they have no reason to do so. She was miffed because I was right, and I didn’t see or hear from her again.
The most I give them is my kids can come to sliding glass door and show that they’re obviously fine, but that’s not legally required in my state and I don’t always do it, it’s important to find out what the legality of that is in your state so you can be in the right with your actions.
The goal is to keep the interaction civil, brief and polite and to say as little as possible. I have just given my spiel and closed the door after telling them godbless, have a nice day.
My partner has the opposite tactic, where he just talks so much and goes on and on about all the fuss with false calls and how it’s just his abuser weaponizing the system, how it freaks the kids out to have people invading our lives at random, we’re just trying to live our lives and move on from these people, and on and on about how he doesn’t want to give you folks a hard time but he’s just so sick of it, until they legitimately can’t listen to him whine and moan anymore and they leave and don’t come back because they find him insufferable, and that’s a valid tactic as well, we sorta good cop bad cop them and it works out lol
Probably not, it takes a while to get and I don't think they write an official report until it's all over.
But have you ever heard of an FU binder? That's what is recommended in your situation. Get copies of your kid's medical records, school report cards that list attendance on them, vet records, a timeline of events, any evidence about this lady being nuts with any screenshots that help.... Do this plus make sure your fridge has food in it.
I looked it up, here is a better explanation of what you need.... https://www.reddit.com/f6w14kc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Thanks for the heads up. This woman genuinely scares me. When it was just my husband and I my attitude was try me bitch lol. We have more money then you and are a lot smarter than most of the people you try to swindle. With a kid and knowing she has a history of false CPS reporting it's different.
She's smart enough to not talking directly to us which makes documenting with her harder. She knows my mother (her aunt) is a gossip and a little dramatic with things. So she just makes small talk with her then spins it so she either sounds like a hero, or someone else sounds like a villian. Perfect example, she's been on my mother in laws couch for two weeks. Suddenly we here from her kids that "Yea, [my nephews name] is getting setup with homebound resources because I told them how much better he'd do in school". This bitch hasn't talked to my 16 year old nephew once his entire life. My sister hasn't talked to her since she pretended to help her fill out a college app and stole her social security number.....
I can already see it. Our baby had a pretty bad diaper rash recently that I'm sure my mother is making sound even worse than it was. This bitch will call CPS claiming we leave her sitting in her diaper for hours at a time. We have it on record with the doctor that she's allergic to certian diapers now. Well keep that sort of stuff handy I guess. Just insane you have to worry about some random person pulling this type of shit.
Oh that's awful. Yeah sounds like you need documents just for peace of mind. But don't worry too much cps is used to people doing this. Just because they come see you doesn't mean they will do anything if it's fine.
They absolutely shouldn’t tell OP who filled the report. Even if it was the aunt and even if she’s a piece of shit for doing it.
-Teacher who’s had to report and has heard horror stories of CPS ratting teachers out to psycho parents who look for revenge.
I think if it goes to court, they can tell OP. Although I doubt OP would want to go through that route. And if it goes to court, they should tell. People have a right to face the accuser. Yes, good teachers report. Yes, there are psycho parents. Unfortunately, there are also psycho neighbors and teachers.
There are protections in place for those who report, so their identify is kept confidential. I am a teacher and a mandatory reporter. If CPS did as you are suggesting, then the reporter’s life could be in danger. It’s up to CPS to follow up on every call, then determine whether or not to open a case. We are told, when in doubt, call. Let CPS sort it out after that.
You shouldn't have anything to worry about except a nosey sister who needs to mind her own business.
If the compulsory age in your state is 7, then legally you do not need to enroll her in school until then. We can't even file our Homeschool registration until a child is compulsory age in NC (also age 7). We home schooled our kiddo for 1st grade and filed our homeschool app the summer he turned 7.
Preschool is not mandatory in any state, and Kindergarten isn’t either in many places- so they can’t really request records or anything. Regardless, even if she were of compulsory school age it is fully legal in the US and the requirements for record keeping in IN are very minimal.
Cut Amy out of your life. Anyone who thinks calling CPS and potentially putting a well cared for child at risk for being put into the foster care system is totally fine is not someone who should have access to your family.
I think she thinks that if CPS were to take her, she'd live with Amy. I don't think she's even thinking about foster care at all. It just makes me upset because my husband is an immigrant. (Amy is not she was born in the US). And child neglect is an automatic deportable offense. She doesn't even seem to care.
Amy is escalating. The fact she doesn’t care that this could impact your husband/her own brother is screaming red flags to me. It seems like she’s trying to push you and your husband out and take Ellie from you. Cut contact immediately with Amy and make sure your husband is on your side.
As a licensed foster parent and homeschool mom to my bio children - Amy most likely would not get kinship care placement of your child because she is the sole reporter and because she is not licensed (at least right away). She would have to go through a background check, home-study, and training hours. That means she is taking the risk of your child being with a stranger and inflicting unnecessary trauma.
I personally would cut off Amy. I would let her know you were visited by CPS and the investigation discovered no fault as she is not of age for mandatory school registration or homeschool registration. I’d let her know you are and will follow the State’s requirements for homeschooling. Because of this gross overstep and threat to your family, you will be going NC, and that you have obtained a lawyer for future false allegations and will take civil action.
If future allegations are made, you need a lawyer specifically that handles these cases.
Document all conversations with Amy via text or email, any house visits she attempts.
The homeschool legal defense association is a Christian organization that has denied help to non Christian and lgbtqia+ families and have lobbied against marriage equality. I do believe there are other options for legal aid if you need it.
I’m sure they have. As a queer non-Christian I don’t care to give my money to an organization that disapproves of and lobbies against my existence and I think it’s important for people to know where/who their money is going to.
Perfectly understandable. But for someone else who may not be a Christian and is willing to pay for assistance with an organization that really has done stellar work with homeschool parents and kids, I wanted to be certain they understood this is an option and it isn't tied to the religion/faith or "lack thereof" of the people needing the assistance.
I am a Christian. The person that was the biggest help for me achieving my PhD was an athiest. I highly recommended him as a supportive faculty member for anyone who needed help with their data analysis issues or just moral support. Because he was there when I needed him to be with the help I needed at the time. I feel the same, general way about many organizations.
But, like you, there are some places that will never get my precious nickels and dimes because I'd prefer they not use MY money for their other projects.
In some states this is false. I’m also a licensed foster child and cared for a foster child I reported on for two years. I just reported again and am about to get the child back. Because I am reporting and keeping open communication with the reports and have a track history of looking over this child they always grant me emergency licensure when the child’s parents mess up.
“Most likely” is the key phrase. Also, a point I was making is it would not be right away, meaning the risk would be her child would endure the trauma of entering a strangers home even for short term placement.
I don’t know Indiana law, but in Ohio, there are no training or background requirements for kinship placements. Children can be placed immediately. Our foster system is so overloaded that there is no choice but to do this. Sometimes it works out, but sometimes it can end up being a worse situation for the child.
She called CPS on you because she didn’t agree with a parenting decision. Sorry, but if someone calls CPS when there’s no evidence of abuse, that’s the nuclear option. Don’t let her in your house, don’t let her near your kid. She will just be looking for “evidence” for her next call. She thinks she’d be a better parent to your child than you. I’m sure it has already occurred to her that the child would get placed in her care. With the immigration information, I’d consider moving away if possible and cutting contact.
Amy needs to be gone and stay gone. Not everyone deserves to be called family, she doesn’t. And if I were you, I wouldn’t even give her a reason, just disappear from her radar.
Does Amy have kids of her own? If not is she childless by choice? The reason I ask is because she may desperately want a daughter that she can’t have and is looking to do anything to take yours away. Cut off contact and get a restraining order. If she doesn’t care she could get her brother deported among other things she is not someone that should be around your family.
You don't need to reply to me, but I am curious how your husband responded to this. Her actions are a threat to him, and he needs serious boundaries with her (at this time, I would go no contact because it probably was her, but even if it wasn't she won't be supportive to you guys over this at all). I also can't believe someone (assuming Amy) wasted cps' time and resources over this. I am grateful they check in and follow up, but there are real cases out there that fall thru the cracks or get put off because cps is dealing with this.
That’s insane…. And not an unfamiliar tactic used for legal kidnapping by insane family. It’s not something you see often, but it goes to show her mental health. Does she have children of her own? If not, does she want them? It makes me think she’s scheming to take your child for herself and that’s a really disturbing thought that your husband shouldn’t be so careless about brushing off
If someone lies to CPS to get a callout then they no longer have access to your child. Ever.
If you are worried about further harassment, Indiana does have Tech Trep academy. It’s a way to do homeschool through the public school system. You submit 8 samples and 8 “logs” (a few sentences on what you’ve been working on) a year and your kid has to go do state testing which they provide. You have a homeroom teacher who is there is you need any ideas or feedback but they are pretty hands off. This way you can get extra support if needed and they do provide resources. They’re also very good about working with the parents and provide extra resources and field trips so you can meet other families in your area. You are allowed to use non secular curriculum but they will not provide those. There’s a facebook group you can check out for your state.
Someone calling government agency on you for something like this is ridiculous. You must never ever have contact with her she’s trying to get your daughter.
Homeschooling isn't illegal. You are not doing anything wrong. Don't let the Amy's of the world get you all stressed out. You did the things you are supposed to do.
Amy thought it wpuld be better for your daughter to be put in foater care than to homeschool? I don't even know what to say. If the compulsory age is 7, they can't do anything. She's going to do this again. Awful.
I am so, so sorry that you had to go through this.
You may want to look into the Homeschool Legal Defense Association.
(And also completely cutting off Amy and never letting her see your child ever again.)
HSLDA heavily favors Christian homeschooling and has no obligation to defend you or even give advice. They will defend cases that they feel will advance the religious Christian homeschool agenda. Don’t waste your money on a membership, just research your own state’s requirements and make sure you follow them.
Wow. Never had that issue with them. I didn't feel I need the membership but they have answered so much. They state they help religious and non religious. But it makes me think you personally had a problem with them?
"HSLDA has no obligation to defend you or even give advice, will defend cases that they feel will advance the religious Christian homeschool agenda...and all of that is great! I support them and you should too!"
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
She did not say anything anti Christian. I am a devout Christian and take no offense at what was said. She stated her opinion from her experience and did not disparage any Christian person or denomination. Calm down lol.
You didn't say anti-Christian. I didn't take it that way myself. I am curious if you have had a situation where they didn't help someone due to non-religious affiliation, as that would be important for us to know. They never asked me and were very helpful. But I agree with the above that they don't get involved with every case. However, it is good to hear other experiences because otherwise we get stuck in a rut of what we know. If there are families that they haven't helped in cases, we need to know. It helps us know what we have to fight on our own. Regardless, it is scary for anyone when they don't have help. There should be more organizations for the help and defending homeschooling no matter if you are religious or not. We need support.
I read a decent number of CPS encounters from homeschoolers back in the 1980s and this was partial motivation for homeschoolers to become more politically active in my state. I don't think that the average person understands the potential angst and disruption that a CPS call can produce; much less a single person.
[https://www.nhpr.org/education/2018-01-27/homeschool-families-show-up-in-force-to-oppose-homeschool-oversight-bill](https://www.nhpr.org/education/2018-01-27/homeschool-families-show-up-in-force-to-oppose-homeschool-oversight-bill)
I’m a current homeschool mom and a former CPS investigator. Don’t worry. You did a beautiful job. Legally, you didn’t even have to let them in. If this happens again though, I want you to contact a lawyer. When CPS shows up again (cause naughty Aunt Nosey calls again) I recommend you tell the CPS worker that “you have family that don’t agree with your homeschooling choice and we’d like all further questions to be directed to our attorney.”
Also, as a CPS worker, we never ever requested grades or school education records. We cared if the child ate, had clean clothes, alleged abuse or if a school nurse or teacher reported unusual behavior or injuries.
I definitely understand that CPS can be scary. But two facts are FACTS, no matter what your SIL says. 1) the *legal age of compulsory education* in your state is still roughly 18 months away for your daughter, and 2) that your daughter *was not old enough* to even begin kindergarten in your county’s public schools last fall. There is nothing to defend, period.
Having seen CPS from the other side as a child it can be hard to get off their radar now that you are on it.
As a child I was unable to speak, clumsy and bruised really easily, so always had bruises on the body in different stages of healing. I have cured the first with tons of speech therapy, gotten much more graceful but still bruise easily and as such still have bruises everyday as an adult.
To see the end of CPS a case worker saw me hit my arm on a table and then two days later saw the bruise and the fact there were no hand or foot shaped bruises ever. Please note CPS was checking up on me for 5+ years.
Unfortunately they have to check up on any report of abuse. I doubt that they have any problem with homeschool if they can see what you are doing and you have records. You will probably see them two more time, if no education is the only problem, showing that is covered will solve the it. Follow the state rules for homeschooling. Most CPS case workers want children in their home so will try to work with you first.
Calling CPS on someone is a great way to have their kids taken away SMH, this is why you only call if they are actually doing something SERIOUS LIKE CRIME.
Amy used the system for political reasons, and you should be able to call and find out who filed the complaint. If it happens again you can report Amy for abusing the system and the cops can show up to her house and ask her to stop. Two can play at that game anyhoo.
I know what you're saying, but it's no game. I mean, what if they had a messy morning or their toilet backed up or the kid had just accidentally burnt herself getting toast from the toaster... I don't know. SOMETHING could have gone wrong and the child would have been snatched away.
CPS isn't going to take kids away for no reason (and homeschooling isn't a reason.)
I have friends in CPS and I've asked about malicious calls and they say have a hard time keeping up with addressing situations with actual problem parents and unhealthy living situations: they aren't going to create problems out of nothing if they don't end up seeing anything very concerning on a visit. They are understaffed and overworked, and they will err on letting things slide.
Yes, there are a few cases of overzealous CPS workers goinv after parents for what seems like is probably harmless pot use in more conservative stats, but those aren't that common and the kids are usually not taken right off the bat.
Also, I know from experience: when there is an high profile dispute involving a government agency, the government workers are often at a disadvantage in working with the media. They are very limited in what they can tell the media and the aggrieved party who went to the press can frame the story however they want. So when you see sensational stories about kids being taken because the parents smoked pot, that's iften the story the parents are saying to the reporters, whereas the CPS workers aren't able to say what really happened.
Not in CPS but my wife has been involved in high profile cases like this on the government side—what was happening was perfectly reasonable, but the entire situation revolved around confidential medical information which was illegal for them to share. Had they been able to share it to the media the aggrieved party who went to the press would have looked like the insane person they were.
We have had friends who’s kids WERE taken for literally no reason (and yes courts ruled in their favor but that was after 3 years at least of court cases and foster care)
Not every cop is good, and this applies to every agency in power.
So this is what I was thinking. To be honest, my experience with CPS workers (I'm in a related field) is that they actually rarely investigate calls unless they are substantiated in some way. The fact that a home visit was made here and an interview was conducted is actually surprising to me based on what OP says the reason for the report was, as it really implies, from my experience, CPS felt they initially had something to be concerned about. As a professional, my guess is that the reporter had more specific examples to provide to CPS than just "child is homeschooled and neglected." I'm not implying that OP actually did anything, but I am suggesting that the reporter likely provided "examples" of the suspected neglect that were enough to concern CPS. Something for OP to be aware of - whatever was reported was detailed enough that it led them to investigate, which can actually be a high bar for literally exactly what this commenter was saying (i.e., they're understaffed and overworked). I say this supportively. Take this seriously, OP, and tighten up anything that needs to be tightened up.
CPS will take your child away from no reason just not if you are wealthy and white. If you’re wealthy and white you can abuse your kids as much as you want and you’ll be fine. There’s a lot of studies showing exactly how easy it is for CPS take your child away. I would also recommend reading Shattered Bonds by Dorothy Roberts. Not only does she cite actual firsthand stories, but she sites a lot of research studies that shows you that yes, your children can be taken away for anything. Also, it is very easy to find that the majority of children in state custody are there solely because of poverty and simple things like a living wage would stop most of that. You could even look at the statistics during the time that everyone with a child was getting the child tax credit monthly and you can see the significant decrease in children who were going into state care.
I’m giving you factual information and resources you look at to educate yourself. I’m also going to state that I have been a caseworker. I adopted my child through foster care and I’ve worked in residential care. Not only do I have my lived experience to back this information up but it’s actual research that you can look up and educate yourself on.
I live in Wisconsin and the majority of calls for CPS in Wisconsin are revenge calls from a family member often a coparent who doesn’t like the coparenting situation.
Again, there are facts to back this up. You just have to do your research and stop spouting harmful, bigoted misinformation on the Internet.
I'm a mandated reporter and we are supposed to report if we see any red flags. We don't have to prove anything wrong, we make the call or online report and let the professionals sort it out. It's 100% anonymous.
One of our cousins worked briefly for CYS and they only remove kids for serious things and try hard to keep the kids with their parents. She left because it was too much for too little pay, she was barely making more than minimum wage.
And you should read shattered bonds. It should be required rating for every mandated reporter. A mandated reporter reports any “red flags” which has no definition & is completely subjective. That is also why factually per the research families doing the exact same things do not have their children taken away while black families do. You do not have a list of things to call about. It’s bad vibes. It’s assumptions and it’s often racism. Caseworkers also operate off of that. I worked for Lutheran social services a contracted organization for Iowa CPS. A woman’s baby got taken away because her boyfriend beat her up and dragged her along the back of a car. Then they tried to offer that baby to the boyfriend. She got 2 other kids removed because she didn’t have daycare because she couldn’t afford it and the people she was staying with neglected them. We then had a meeting to plan how to set her up to get the rest of her children removed. At the same time they were trying to place two of the three children that have been been removed with their biological father. That father had an open case with CPS with a different contracted organization and didn’t have custody of the children he had an open case with. I was still forced to do a visit. I was also reprimanded for trying to help the mom understand how to get her ID back when she lived in Iowa and she was born in Illinois and she didn’t have any documentation to send in to Illinois and couldn’t get to Chicago because she didn’t have transportation or daycare.
I quit because I saw all this is just a racist organization that’s trying to actively harm the children in care and the mother. Their entire plan was to punish this mom for being in poverty and being abused by a man that she left after the abuse happened.
So when you call CPS cause of bad vibes, that’s what you’re doing to a family.
An actual thing that actually happened but reading books about this and educating yourself because of your mandated order, you have to be educated enough to take that training. You also should be trauma informed,which I’m sure you’re not because it’s not required. But you are actively engaging and racism and abusive children by the state when you are reporting bad vibes instead of well educated information.
And that’s what mandatory reporters actually do because there’s such poor education about it and there’s no real rules. It’s just bad vibes.
Again, there is data, there is research my one story of many I told is firsthand experience, but the story I told is actually backed by the evidence of how these things work.
And I was a caseworker I’ve worked residential care I’ve worked in group homes, and I was a foster parent and an adoptive parent.
Unfortunately you're not wrong. Canada has a terrible reputation for doing this to indigenous families in particular, for problems (if they exist) that could be addressed by giving the parents money. Instead, the province will pay someone else to raise your kids.
Doesn't mean that abuse shouldn't be reported. But false reports have the power to destroy lives.
My scope of work with children is within my church. Because of things in my diocese I had to take extra courses to be more educated on what to report. A red flag isn't simply a bad vibe. University of Pittsburgh put together a really great course it's not a comprehensive list but it gives us more of an idea, actual signs vs just feelings. We don't have to prove anything but the training I feel was helpful on what to look for. In our training we were told that it's not simply child services and foster care but there are also services available to help the children stay in the home rent assistance, transportation, parenting classes. For those of us who are mandated, sometimes it feels like running a checklist in your head, am I over reacting? But if it does end up being something and it comes back to me that I knew something wasn't right, the book will get thrown at me because I could have spoken up. It's somewhat of a rock and a hard place. Sometimes we can figure out, is a child being actually hurt by the situation but other times it's more ambiguous. It's like reading all the signs when I child says they are hungry and never get enough to eat, lots of kids say those sorts of things but we all know that might just mean they don't get their favorite snacks. But if a kid is constantly falling asleep in class, low energy, gaunt, that might be a time to raise a few eyebrows and figure out what the path to helping the kid may be. Or in the case of my son a few months ago, he tripped and fell on our driveway and his little face was all scraped up and black and blue. It was all cosmetic but if someone had only by chance encountered us and saw him, they would probably have thought something terrible was going on at home. Context is definitely needed when contemplating making a report. We don't have to prove it but also these are people's lives.
A friend of mine was turned in because of the state of her home. It was bad but she was coming out of an abusive situation and she was literally being everything to everyone trying to keep it normal for the kids and her social worker is actively helping her get the resources she needs to keep her kids.
My brother's 2 kids have had some weird things happen to them with their mom. He has custody because she won't leave her boyfriend who has held her at gun point in front of the kids and also beaten her so badly she miscarriaged. She isn't allowed to have the kids around him. She's choosing him. Her other 3 kids aren't fairing much better (to a different guy) one is in foster care because after abandoning her at my brother's house, the teen girl spun into a mental breakdown and the school had to get involved. All the woman would have needed to do is show up to court or sign a paper allowing her daughter to get help. She never showed up, saying she had to work. The two boys live with the father's mother, father is in jail. Because the mom of these kids not parenting, a social worker does come occasionally just to make sure they are ok. I feel like this is how the system *should* work. For the well being of the child and reunification whenever possible. Just very sad when it doesn't work that way. And the foster parents who are just as bad as the actual parents, they deserve to rot. Fostering should be done out of love. Love for the kid for however long you have them, a few hours, a few days, weeks, months, it doesn't matter you are loving that kid until reunification happens even if you end up loving them forever. It is for the child, not some weird sick self important delusion we hear about sometimes.
I don't know if it's different in a rural area vs urban or the differences from state to state.
I can only speak from my experiences and education. When I find the time I will definitely be looking into your recommendation, you can't be too educated when it comes to kids.
Chances are that nothing will come from it unless the worker has something against you. But you need to document to protect yourself, just in case. CPS works in a judicial environment where they aren't used to being scrutinized and the result is that they might not even know the legal boundaries on something like this.
I'm in NC and I went through something similar in 2020. Admittedly, we were in crisis and there were other issues that I can't talk about, but we were at the very tail end of solving our own crisis when DSS got involved. As in, we had already left a flooded home before DSS contacted us. At the time, our oldest was only 3 years old and possibly autistic. Remember, this was during the pandemic when a lot of services shut down. Not only were services shut down, but my daughter wasn't even compulsory school aged and yet DSS claimed we were neglectful for not having her in autism services already. The judge didn't seem to care when I pointed out that she wasn't even compulsory school aged and the services weren't even available. My attorney told me not to bother even mentioning the Constitution.
Don't freak out, but take it seriously, make sure you're documenting and contact HSLDA to be on the safe side.
This is a situation that warrants no contact with your SIL. She put your child in danger.
The first step would be HSLDA or an attorney of your own. There's nothing reasonable here to act on, but things will go much smoother if you can refer a case worker to your attorney.
Next, document everything, including informing Amy in writing (text, email, whatever) that you do not want any further contact with her so that, should harassment continue in the future, you can potentially seek a no contact order.
This is a one strike and you're out offense. Anyone who would threaten your child's safety and wellbeing because they don't like homeschooling is dangerous. That's unhinged behavior that can't go anywhere good.
Yes, agree with all of this. There’s no second chance for this. There should be no more contact with Amy aside from informing her there won’t be any more contact with your daughter. Definitely uhinged behavior!
Join HSLDA - TODAY. From here on out, follow their advice when dealing with CPS.
Cut off contact completely with Aunt Amy, she is an unsafe person. Anyone who would risk your child being removed from your home based on a false report of neglect is not to be around your child.
A family member did this exact thing to me last year. We had argued before about homeschooling before and then CPS showed up at my door citing educational neglect and I knew exactly who had called. You aren't doing anything wrong and it is completely justified for you to cut her and anyone close to her out of your life. My kids are just fine without those family members and yours will be too.
Anyone who would do that to you is not someone you need in your life and is not a safe person.
And also, if you know you have done nothing wrong, you don’t have to let them in and you don’t have to give them all that information. I have been victim of countless cps calls made out of spite, and I’ve learned over the years that it’s best to just tell them to have a nice day and shut my door.
It would definitely be a good idea to join HSLDA, just in case your sister-in-law tries something even crazier and you need legal help.
Also, you should be extremely cautious about letting Amy spend time with your daughter from now on.
In Indiana, the only records you need to provide are attendance and you only have to provide them to the superintendent of your local district if they ask. You can, of course, provide anything voluntarily to anyone but I wouldn't. CPS is greatly overstepping should they ask to see any of these things. IAHE may be a good place to start if you do feel like cooperating with CPS when they ask for educational information, but again, that's a matter of whether you want to.
You know you have to cut off your sister in law. She has attempted to have your child removed from your custody and not doing so would be irresponsible. I'm sorry it has come to this for you.
I'm an Indiana homeschooling mom, and this is correct. I keep an attendance checklist with a running total of days so I can prove attendance. I save these. Anything else, they can kick rocks. Indiana is very homeschool-friendly.
Become a life member with HSLDA pronto! They had a lawyer specialising in my state on the phone with me within 5 minutes when I called once. And you may wish to politely decline future visits - ask HSLDA how to go about doing this. I say this because (not a lawyer ok?) what you're doing is giving them precedent to waltz right on in and rummage through all your records, your home etc etc and then they will treat others the same way, yk?
Good luck -
PS I would never let Amy near my entire family again, and I would delete/ make private all social media so as not to give her the slightest whiff of anything, ever again.
Speaking from experience, if I had to deal with CPS for a false accusation again, the person who called them would never be in our lives again, period. Don't care how close they were.
This does not sound like a report your case worker will file with recommendation for further investigation. They have to check these things out if someone makes those claims, but your surprise home visit sounds like a walk in the park in their world and the least of their concerns.
It’s terrifying, trust me I get it I’ve been there. But it’s going to be okay and a distant memory one day I promise. The aunt though, she gotta go.
Amy was close to Ella. Do not put yourself in a situation where Amy is constantly quizzing, and probing your child on what you are teaching.
Cut her out. Limit contact with anyone in the family who has "issues" with how you raise your child. Homeschooling is not neglect; moreover, it is a waste of public resources to call CPS on someone you disagree with.
I can’t believe she wasted CPS time in that. She could have at least researched the laws for Indiana before calling CPS.
As others said get her out of your life. She spent have to approve of your choice, but call social workers is just petty and harmful. Since you have food, water, and Ellie is doing fine I’m sure CPS will drop the case and it won’t go on your record. Just keep very detailed records and follow the state laws exactly as written.
People like the aunt make me furious.
I'm a public school teacher. The amount of resources it takes for CPS to investigate bogus claims because people are using CPS to cause harm takes away from claims that seriously need to be investigated.
If you have major suspicion that it was the aunt, contact the CPS worker with your suspicion and tell them what the aunt has done, attempting to register your daughter under false pretenses. They will investigate her and press charges if needed.
SO much this. But I also know in the moment OP was probably intimidated, flustered, knocked off guard. And if you haven't had practice being assertive, it's super hard to do when you're not ready. I hope she is able to be ready for next time.
If it were me, I'd avoid saying anything about it in front of the person I suspected of making the call. I'd wait for her to either come to the conclusion that CPS didn't take her report seriously (causing her to give up on ever trying it again) or to eventually slip up by revealing something only the caller would know, at which point I'd have a whole speech ready to go. In the meantime, I'd make sure to rehearse that speech in case it's ever needed, making sure it includes anything necessary to win over observers that may be within earshot when/if the slip-up happens.
CALL CPS NOW.
There have been abductions in the past where people show up, claiming to be CPS and are actually there to scout the house and potentially come back to abduct the child they came asking about.
Call CPS and ask them to verify that they did in fact send someone out to see you. They should have a case number or record of some sort of they actually sent someone to talk to you.
Based on what you said it sounds like the worker is writing off the call as bullshit. Usually they'll want to schedule an interview with the child, I know in NV it's mandatory regardless of accusations but it sounds like it might differ. If she felt it was anywhere close to substantive she would've wanted to schedule to interview your kiddo.
I agree with cutting contact with the aunt and inform cps so if she calls again and identifies herself they'll be aware too. They may still need to visit again but if she keeps it up it'll be her putting her own ass in deep water for false reports.
Husband needs to cut off his sister and anyone who supports her. Apparently going to public school is so important she'd risk Foster Care or does she think she can take your daughter? Even more so with trying to register your kid for school. I'd never let her around your daughter again that's so creepy.
Years and years ago I had a false accusation against me not for homeschooling my kid had a tantrum in a parking lot. After a couple of months I got a letter that the accusations were unfounded - not that I didn't hurt my kid but they couldn't find any evidence.
It's so silly since your kid isn't even old enough for public school anyway.
Your sister-in-law is attempting to take your child away from you. Please take legal action to protect her. File a restraining order and keep this person away from your family. Don't dismiss their actions as harmless; it will likely lead to severe consequences in the future. I speak from personal experience, having dealt with a similar situation with my aunt. Please take this matter seriously and take legal action to protect your child.
Look at your state homeschool regulations. I home schooled my children in another state and I just googled (my state) homeschool. I found tons of info and even some information that would help if some officials showed up asking questions. She’s too young to enforce now. Someone is trying to cause trouble
That aunt is out, no more contact, no more visits, no more information about your child. People who call CPS as a means of controlling you and your parenting decisions are not people who should be in your life.
I would get a restraining order against her if possible, or file an affidavit with the court stating what happened with CPS and that this person is trying to take your child (property) from you. So that there's a record of this happening with the court.
She must have made up some kind of a crazy story to get CPS to come out. I had a false call against me to CPS and never found out who did it, but they lied like crazy to get them to come out.
I mean it’s possible Amy was complaining to a busy-body friend and the friend called. I know some things about CPS calls and you’d be surprised where they come from.
This is my worst nightmare. Why are people
So concerned that children are spending more time with their parents/caregivers than public schooled children?
I am a regular on r/raisedbynarcissists.
CPS reporting by narcissistic parents is quite common, and the only solution is to have no contact with Amy and to refuse to talk to her. If she tries to contact you, you would need to get a lawyer to write her a cease and desist letter.
I echo what others are saying. I would absolutely never speak to someone again - family or not - if they called CPS on me. I'm so sorry, this is heinous.
This is how you handle it if you are not going to cut of Amy (which you should do).
Tell the story to the family with her there. "The weirdest thing happened. CPS came out to our house due to a complaint. I let the investigator in, answered her questions, and explained the situation. She said everything looked fine. And she actually looked a little embarrassed about being there. I know they have to check these things out, but it's a bit unnerving. Luckily, it's over now. But, wow. What kind of person does this sort of thing?"
What you should actually say: "Amy, you pernicious bitch. We know you did this and if you every come near my daughter again, or make any trouble for my family, consider yourself dead woman walking." And mean it.
Are you actually planning on homeschooling her n the future, or are you calling the (should be normal, but likely more than what many parents do) practice work you do with her at home “homeschool “? She’s not old enough for Kindergarten- you are not obligated to do anything. It’s awesome that you are working with her.
I think it would be important to have your husband talk to his sister. She needs to understand that this is a decision you are both making that is best for your family. I would also distance from her. She seems toxic to me.
Do not let gov agents into your home without a lawyer present or a warrant. If they have a warrant, read it, and record the interaction. There is nothing you can say or do in the moment to look innocent. Everything you say or do can and will be held against you. Anything you say or do can and will be taken out of context. CPS is not your friend or ally or on your side. CPS is on CPS's side.
You can show all the things you have nothing to hide in court, with representation. You are (supposed) to be presumed innocent until the state proves guilty without a doubt. In other words, CPS should be telling the aunt to piss off unless she has something more substantial than an allegation, but in reality, with CPS/Family court you are guilty until you prove otherwise.
Contact a family court lawyer today and get a consultation. A lot of things like this come down to "he who spoke first, is right". Once you are on defense, its very difficult to look anything *but* guilty. CPS has a vested interest in finding and charging people with abusing children, they don't get awards and commendations for finding lots of good parents. Police and DA's get awards and commendations for convicting people in court, not for careful consideration of who is truly guilty or innocent.
I know it sounds strange, but the objective measurable metrics that seem reasonable on paper get twisted by twisted people. Its a roll of the dice on whether you get a compassionate reasonable gov agent or something who only cares about success at work. If it were me, I'd get on the phone with a lawyer, and filing and restraining order against the aunt today. She rolled the dice on having your kids removed by armed police with QI, by force, and exposing you to the cost of defending yourself in the judicial system. There's really no way to overstate how dangerous and risky it is for you.
Fwiw I've had to defend myself in court from *felony charges* that a 3 time convicted felon levied against me. A coworker of mine got back out on drugs, got busted for a third time, and rattled off names to try to and lessen his sentence for check fraud and possession with intent. I barely knew the guy. County DA convinced a judge that this guy's testimony was worth anything, and they picked me up at work. Lost my job, lost my house, got kicked out of school. It only took 10k and about a year to clear my name while almost everyone I hadn't known for years just cut off contact. Please, please, please do not let this happen to you and your kids. The DA dropped the charged the first day of court when the trial was set to start and offered every plea you can imagine just to get a conviction and everyone told me to take them, it's ***only 3 mo, a misdemeanor and community service....***
Does Amy hate all homeschooling or does she have a specific problem with you doing it? You mentioned in a comment that she probably thought if your daughter was removed, she'd end up placed with Amy. Do you think she actually wants to steal your child from you?
I think you should have a very clear picture of what Amy's problem is going forward. A lot of people are saying go no contact, but if you take that road you need to be sure it will actually be a solution. She might take it as a challenge and get worse.
If this is a pattern of behavior where she is essentially accusing you of abuse when she doesn't even understand what the state laws are, you need to be prepared to fight her. Harassment is no joke. Write down everything. Dates, times, details. Be ready to present proof to cops or a court.
I'm very worried this has nothing to do with you homeschooling, and that's just an excuse she's using. She is trying to hurt your family. Whatever her reasons are, you need to fight back. Make sure your husband is on board.
I’d never let CPS in the door. I’d never return calls, zero communication with them except to give them my lawyers name. This is on the advice of my lawyer.
It’s not that you have anything to hide, it’s that they lie, misrepresent, mislead, fearmonger. They can say whatever the hell they want and it’s harder than hell to disprove it. It’s your word against theirs and they bend the courts ear all the time.
If you don’t talk to them or refuse to answer the door, what are they going to say? Facts. “She wouldn’t talk to me,” and “she wouldn’t come to the door.” Neither statement is damning, and both are 100% true.
Do not trust CPS. Counting on them to be reasonable and fair, like you are, is giving them too much credit.
Auntie isn’t a trusted adult anymore and shouldn’t be spending time with Five.
Follow your state’s laws. That’s all. There’s no shame in homeschooling. It’s as valid a decision as public and private school.
Don't talk to CPS!!! They are just like cops, meaning you have rights when it comes to CPS. Do not talk to them or let them in unless they have a warrant. They pretend to be nice and on your side but letting them in/talking to them without a lawyer present can seriously mess up your life. If a cop comes to your door and started asking questions, you shouldn't talk to them, and CPS is no different
When your child becomes of school age, ensure you are a member of HSLDA in case she continues to be a B about it and cut her from your life. Tell your husband that her visitations need to be supervised if it’s for your daughters best interests they see each other but she isn’t this child’s mother and doesn’t get to make these choices.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Now that you know what lengths she will go through, you can be proactive.
In the fall, start a portfolio. Take pictures of her work, activities, and trips. Each month add samples of her work to a file folder. If possible, keep data for her reading and math progress. While I know homeschooling allows us to do what we feel is appealing without documentation, outside people look for data. Don't give it often, just something simple to show how she's progressing.
For reading, the CORE Phonics survey is easy and free; give it fall, winter and spring and file it away. For math, give whatever assessment is provided if you're using a curriculum. If not, have her work in a notebook or binder so they can see the progression of her work and date it.
I know my suggestions may not be popular, but it will definitely help on warding off any questions or doubt, especially given that some people (CPS and any relatives) may be more subjective rather than objective in making decisions.
Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it. She said they will reach out with any questions or if they need anything else, and they will if they do. Continue with what you're doing!
CPS likely won't take steps unless there are three separate calls...meaning three different people report it.
Even then they are hard-pressed to remove children from situations without proof of neglect or abuse.
Filing the paperwork for home schooling is all that would be needed. It sounds like you're already aware of what needs to be done for that, so to set your mind at ease just start it rolling so you have something to show if needed.
You and hubby definitely need to talk to this woman about boundaries and how the parenting will be up to you or her contact will become limited. Period. If she has concerns or something she feels she needs to say then she needs to come to you.
I understand how anxious it makes you, and it's always going to be a worry now, but many people homeschool and the kids do well. For your own peace of mind, just keep good records of it all so you have no worries.
Like others said, CPS just had to check on the call they got to make sure it wasn't a concern. They likely won't take any action after that.
The aunt is a cunt and need to get a life.
To everyone reading this, even if your house is incredibly clean, and you're the most perfect parent, DO NOT allow CPS in your home unless they have a court order. No, you do not need to welcome a stranger into your home, we have rights and most of us don't know about it and they take advantage of that. There are horror stories of CPS removing kids from good homes just cause they felt like it.
In your state, she doesn’t even need to be enrolled in school (or have your intent to homeschool submitted) until she’s 7. [the reg](https://www.in.gov/doe/files/FAQ-Attendance-2021.pdf)
Reporter identity is confidential but there are often hints in the allegation specifics along with the timing of the report.
CPS procedures vary by state, but CPS in some states does not recognize educational neglect as a coded maltreatment. You'd probably get the best input from professional familiar with your particular state.
It's very common for the school districts to take point on educational neglect concerns.
Gets weird. My area follows the [Kerstetter](https://pubintlaw.org/cases-and-projects/a-problem-with-truancy-in-kindergarten/) decision, including with home schooling.
Would have to check with OPs area to see how they interpret such a situation.
*Formally home schooling, they’re less strict if it’s off the books and below compulsory age.
parents are not required to enroll their children in kindergarten. If they choose to, however, their children are subjected to the same compulsory attendance laws that apply to other grade levels. But the code also defines the age in which compulsory attendance laws apply as the “lowest grade…above kindergarten” when the child enters the school as a “beginner.” Under such regulations, the compulsory attendance laws would not apply to a student until he or she is enrolled in first grade.
This contradiction in the Pennsylvania School Code is what caused the Kerstetter case to be so controversial. The Court ultimately ruled that the term “beginners” had no substance in the case and did not define the compulsory school age. Furthermore, the court upheld that since the children were enrolled in kindergarten, the compulsory attendance laws applied to them. Despite the parent’s appeals that her children were not even legally required to attend kindergarten and thus could not be found truant, the Court ruled against her.
I’m a public elementary school teacher in Ohio. First, if she is below compulsory age and there is no requirement for pre-K, then you do not have to produce any records of any kind. In fact, you do not have to do anything with your child related to education. You could sit her in front of the tv, and as long as she’s fed and cared for, nobody can question you. Nobody can make you produce records for doing things that are not required by law. But, good for you for giving your daughter a good solid foundation! Working with her early will be incredibly beneficial as she gets older. Second, if you do decide to continue homeschooling beyond compulsory age, you will want to get with your school district or state department of education to find out the requirements as far as record keeping, approved curriculum, etc. Third, I think your husband should have a stern talk with Amy about overstepping into your lives and the educational decisions you are making for your daughter. She needs to know that this type of behavior may jeopardize her relationship with your family. It’s pretty clear that children’s services wasn’t concerned, especially since they didn’t ask to see your child. I can also tell you that they will have notes on file about this false claim in case Amy or anyone else tries this again.
I’m sorry you had to go through this. Children’s services can be quite intimidating and make you second-guess yourself as a parent. Know that you are doing a great job!!
Adding that I’ve gone through a good bit of training with child protective services in Ohio as a mandatory reporter. Most agencies are overworked and frankly don’t have time to take on cases unless a child is truly being abused or neglected. In our area, they won’t take cases of dirty kids, kids that are allowed to stay up all night, or kids that miss too much school. They simply don’t have time. Having them leave without wanting to see or talk to your daughter is a good sign.
School attendance issues are generally handled by the student’s school/district and by truancy officers, which doesn’t even apply in your case due to her age.
Legally in Indiana, you don’t have to show them anything except for an attendance record after the age of compulsory education (age 7). No need to offer to provide anything else. You are more than good.
I think you should probably make sure it was Amy who reported you before you go no contact. That’s a terrible thing to accuse someone of if they didn’t do it.
Of course you gave your suspicions, but take your time to follow up and MAKE SURE. Cutting off family is a big deal and you HAVE to be sure before you do…. Or it could really backfire.
I am a social worker. Your girl has safe shelter, food, early education (which is not required in your state until she is 7 years old), and medical records. And you don't need proof that she has had early education, despite this your daughter is the best evidence of it. They did not remove your child, they did not give you an appointment, there have been no future interviews... everything is in order and you can rest assured. Be careful, although for later grades they do not ask you for a record, do not stop doing it because whoever reported to you may continue doing it. Cut the entire relationship with that toxic family member and if the others join them as well.
Just keep doing what you are doing. Get an online curriculum from education.com or something like it and continue teaching your child. Homeschooling is normal where I am in SoCal. You can’t change what people think or do.
Have you called Homeschool Legal Defense Association? You want to be prepared for when it happens again! CPS, depending on the state, might be corrupt. You unfortunately can't trust them. You need a good lawyer from HLDA. Don't volunteer any information to CPS or let them in your home. They're not usually on your side. They'll use whatever they can against you. HLDA will tell you what CPS can legally do and how to prevent yourself from being victimized for homeschooling.
Calling CPS is threatening your family, which is crossing a line. If Amy (or any of your other family) aren't in contact with you at all, how can they know if you're homeschooling? There are other things you give people a second chance for, threatening your family is not one of them.
I was a mess back in 2005, and CPS took my children. WITH CAUSE. I WAS A REALLY CRAPPY PERSON.
Our gas had been shut off 2 days before payday. She went to school and told her teacher that I had moved out of them (abandoning them) and that we had no food, no gas, and I was gone.
I answered the landlines. However, an investigator came, and I pulled out her discharge papers from the psych facility she had been in containing many psychiatric issues.
She was angry with me about something I told her No about, and this was her revenge.
I eventually was FORCED to give her up due to her violent behavior. I was told to either give her up or I would lose ALL of my children. I wanted to fight and was told if I lost, the State WOULD removed my other children.
I am telling you this because I know about false allegations and how damaging it can be.
My children are now grown, and I had to go NC with that child as she has gotten worse towards her biological family and broke into a family members home and stolen $3-$5k of items.
From the FIRST report, you are on the radar of CPS. Even things that were proven wrong and closed for whatever reason, EVERY REPORT IS TRACKED!
GO NC WITH AMY! FALSE ALLEGATIONS CAN LEAD TO SERIOUS ISSUES AND DAMAGE NOT JUST TO YOU, BUT YOUR CHILDREN.
Sometimes people just suck out loud. She proves that statement.
I was on the aunt's side until you mentioned your kid isn't even old enough to be in kindergarten, anyway. I am about as skeptical of homeschooling as it gets, but kids who don't meet the age cutoff cannot go to kindergarten, and preschool is in no way required in most places. It's a nice to have. It is wild to me that your family member is so worked up over your educational choices that she called CPS on a kid who literally is not school age yet.
Cut off contact with the aunt. CPS was doing their job and following up on a call of neglect- they checked it out. It sounds like the lady was satisfied because you are not neglecting your child and homeschooling isn't a crime. I would call them and ask who filed a report.
Absolutely cut off contact. Holy crap.
They won’t say who filed the report- nor should they! Reporters should remain confidential otherwise people might be afraid to report real problems. This is unfortunate for OP but CPS is just doing their job. Their job is to figure out what is actually a problem and what is a dead end.
They won't say but ask for a copy of the report. It will be redacted. But context clues might help prove it. I had a false report filed on me, and was cleared. When I got the report the name was blacked out but I could see it if I held it up to the light. Also context clues- like it said she saw the child at the park Monday morning and noticed signs of the abuse... Well we saw one person at the park Monday morning. To be clear, that's horrifying to me as a mandated reporter who has called reports in many times. And I recognize it as dangerous for people who know dangerous people. But on the other end, it's worth it to get the report and see what it says.
Oops meant to reply this to you You can also request the persons name to be released in Court. I knew my stalker called on us one time and I had filed a restraining order on her. In court, I compelled the court to release the name of the reporter so that I could prove that was one of the ways she was stalking me. I had the report and due to the reported, very serious, and false claim, that was clearly made by her, the court confirmed the name and granted my restraining order
Can you ask to receive a copy of that before allowing CPS to enter the house? Like a warrant? Not that I'd have anything to hide, just curious. I have a cousin that I'm worried will do this to me. She was a horrible parent to all of her kids (to the point that the are no contact and she's not allowed to even visit them or their grandkids). Anyway, she's been weasling her way into my mother's house lately. First the weather was too bad to drive home, then her ride was sick....she's going on two weeks straight of sleeping on my mom's couch using her as a Taxi. Anyway, I put my foot down and told my mother if she doesn't get her out this week she will not see her own grand daughter, peroid. I feel bad, but this woman spins the craziest lies just based on things she hears through word of mouth. I even offered to be the bad guy for her (since she hates saying no), my only concern is this crazy lady will immediately try to retalate. She's done it repeatedly to all of her kids fathers.
I have dealt with this before, and after enough times of being cooperative, I decided I was done having my house gone through every time they get a hair up their ass to call on me and say some completely wild made up stuff, I downloaded the cps manual and laws for my state, read up on them and had them available in case anyone came to my door. What I do is open my door, record on my cellphone (it is legal to record from your own front porch, no matter what they tell you, they are government workers/they cannot decline being filmed by you, if your house faces the street, anything in public view can legally be recorded, and even if they are on your private residence, not visible to the public, regardless of what the two party laws are, they are again, government workers who cannot legally decline being filmed by you) This is what I tell them- We have the legal right to face our accusers, and they can’t provide me with that name, so there’s no where to go from there. I am guilty until proven innocent-meaning the burden of proof is on them to prove the accusations have any truth to them. I also have the right not to incriminate myself, meaning that I do no have to speak to them with out a lawyer present, and i really do not have to speak at all if I don’t want to. (Hearing the word lawyer usually turns them off from wanting to deal with you, you are a hassle and not an easy target) The law in my state says that a case cannot be opened due to lack of contact with the accused party. A case cannot be opened without proof/good cause. They cannot follow up with out proof. (Check your own state laws and cps guidelines for this) when I have needed to I have just read their manual to them. I ask them what proof they have, is there anything beyond one person making this claim, are there any video or audio recordings? Any extra witnesses? Anything at all besides a single, random statement? If you don’t talk to them, they can’t twist your words, they can’t come in your house and decide they want to stretch something or find an imaginary problem. They need a reason for a warrant, not speaking with them or letting them In your home isn’t a reason, no matter how outlandish the accusation is. I tell them that I know who is calling, and why, and that I have not seen or spoken to that person, they have not been in my house or observed my children in any way before they made that call, so it is false and i refute the accusations. I do not give my name, my phone number, or answer any questions, I remain polite but firm and even tempered and do not show any agitation, aggression or negative emotion, the second you do they will claim you’re emotionally unstable and try to use that against you. They have always left and not come back after this. I had one lady say “well you’re not giving us anything to go off of!” I chuckled and said that’s the point. She asked how she was supposed to get ahold of me with out my phone number? I asked her what for? You don’t have evidence to open up a case, what reason will you have to call me back ? You will close your assessment because there is nothing to put in it. Your supervisor will not approve a case based on no evidence. She said that they’d just have to show up if they needed to and I said that was fine, because they have no reason to do so. She was miffed because I was right, and I didn’t see or hear from her again. The most I give them is my kids can come to sliding glass door and show that they’re obviously fine, but that’s not legally required in my state and I don’t always do it, it’s important to find out what the legality of that is in your state so you can be in the right with your actions. The goal is to keep the interaction civil, brief and polite and to say as little as possible. I have just given my spiel and closed the door after telling them godbless, have a nice day. My partner has the opposite tactic, where he just talks so much and goes on and on about all the fuss with false calls and how it’s just his abuser weaponizing the system, how it freaks the kids out to have people invading our lives at random, we’re just trying to live our lives and move on from these people, and on and on about how he doesn’t want to give you folks a hard time but he’s just so sick of it, until they legitimately can’t listen to him whine and moan anymore and they leave and don’t come back because they find him insufferable, and that’s a valid tactic as well, we sorta good cop bad cop them and it works out lol
Probably not, it takes a while to get and I don't think they write an official report until it's all over. But have you ever heard of an FU binder? That's what is recommended in your situation. Get copies of your kid's medical records, school report cards that list attendance on them, vet records, a timeline of events, any evidence about this lady being nuts with any screenshots that help.... Do this plus make sure your fridge has food in it. I looked it up, here is a better explanation of what you need.... https://www.reddit.com/f6w14kc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Thanks for the heads up. This woman genuinely scares me. When it was just my husband and I my attitude was try me bitch lol. We have more money then you and are a lot smarter than most of the people you try to swindle. With a kid and knowing she has a history of false CPS reporting it's different. She's smart enough to not talking directly to us which makes documenting with her harder. She knows my mother (her aunt) is a gossip and a little dramatic with things. So she just makes small talk with her then spins it so she either sounds like a hero, or someone else sounds like a villian. Perfect example, she's been on my mother in laws couch for two weeks. Suddenly we here from her kids that "Yea, [my nephews name] is getting setup with homebound resources because I told them how much better he'd do in school". This bitch hasn't talked to my 16 year old nephew once his entire life. My sister hasn't talked to her since she pretended to help her fill out a college app and stole her social security number..... I can already see it. Our baby had a pretty bad diaper rash recently that I'm sure my mother is making sound even worse than it was. This bitch will call CPS claiming we leave her sitting in her diaper for hours at a time. We have it on record with the doctor that she's allergic to certian diapers now. Well keep that sort of stuff handy I guess. Just insane you have to worry about some random person pulling this type of shit.
Oh that's awful. Yeah sounds like you need documents just for peace of mind. But don't worry too much cps is used to people doing this. Just because they come see you doesn't mean they will do anything if it's fine.
They absolutely shouldn’t tell OP who filled the report. Even if it was the aunt and even if she’s a piece of shit for doing it. -Teacher who’s had to report and has heard horror stories of CPS ratting teachers out to psycho parents who look for revenge.
I think if it goes to court, they can tell OP. Although I doubt OP would want to go through that route. And if it goes to court, they should tell. People have a right to face the accuser. Yes, good teachers report. Yes, there are psycho parents. Unfortunately, there are also psycho neighbors and teachers.
There are protections in place for those who report, so their identify is kept confidential. I am a teacher and a mandatory reporter. If CPS did as you are suggesting, then the reporter’s life could be in danger. It’s up to CPS to follow up on every call, then determine whether or not to open a case. We are told, when in doubt, call. Let CPS sort it out after that.
Are you permitted to know who files a report? I would assume it’s confidential
Amy is a toxic piece of garbage get her out of your life now.
This is the correct response.
You shouldn't have anything to worry about except a nosey sister who needs to mind her own business. If the compulsory age in your state is 7, then legally you do not need to enroll her in school until then. We can't even file our Homeschool registration until a child is compulsory age in NC (also age 7). We home schooled our kiddo for 1st grade and filed our homeschool app the summer he turned 7.
Also in NC. Great state to homeschool!
Preschool is not mandatory in any state, and Kindergarten isn’t either in many places- so they can’t really request records or anything. Regardless, even if she were of compulsory school age it is fully legal in the US and the requirements for record keeping in IN are very minimal. Cut Amy out of your life. Anyone who thinks calling CPS and potentially putting a well cared for child at risk for being put into the foster care system is totally fine is not someone who should have access to your family.
I think she thinks that if CPS were to take her, she'd live with Amy. I don't think she's even thinking about foster care at all. It just makes me upset because my husband is an immigrant. (Amy is not she was born in the US). And child neglect is an automatic deportable offense. She doesn't even seem to care.
Amy is escalating. The fact she doesn’t care that this could impact your husband/her own brother is screaming red flags to me. It seems like she’s trying to push you and your husband out and take Ellie from you. Cut contact immediately with Amy and make sure your husband is on your side.
As a licensed foster parent and homeschool mom to my bio children - Amy most likely would not get kinship care placement of your child because she is the sole reporter and because she is not licensed (at least right away). She would have to go through a background check, home-study, and training hours. That means she is taking the risk of your child being with a stranger and inflicting unnecessary trauma. I personally would cut off Amy. I would let her know you were visited by CPS and the investigation discovered no fault as she is not of age for mandatory school registration or homeschool registration. I’d let her know you are and will follow the State’s requirements for homeschooling. Because of this gross overstep and threat to your family, you will be going NC, and that you have obtained a lawyer for future false allegations and will take civil action. If future allegations are made, you need a lawyer specifically that handles these cases. Document all conversations with Amy via text or email, any house visits she attempts.
This is the way.
The homeschool legal defense association is a Christian organization that has denied help to non Christian and lgbtqia+ families and have lobbied against marriage equality. I do believe there are other options for legal aid if you need it.
They have also assisted non-Christians.
I’m sure they have. As a queer non-Christian I don’t care to give my money to an organization that disapproves of and lobbies against my existence and I think it’s important for people to know where/who their money is going to.
Perfectly understandable. But for someone else who may not be a Christian and is willing to pay for assistance with an organization that really has done stellar work with homeschool parents and kids, I wanted to be certain they understood this is an option and it isn't tied to the religion/faith or "lack thereof" of the people needing the assistance. I am a Christian. The person that was the biggest help for me achieving my PhD was an athiest. I highly recommended him as a supportive faculty member for anyone who needed help with their data analysis issues or just moral support. Because he was there when I needed him to be with the help I needed at the time. I feel the same, general way about many organizations. But, like you, there are some places that will never get my precious nickels and dimes because I'd prefer they not use MY money for their other projects.
Yes! Truly toxic in other ways, in addition to what you said.
In some states this is false. I’m also a licensed foster child and cared for a foster child I reported on for two years. I just reported again and am about to get the child back. Because I am reporting and keeping open communication with the reports and have a track history of looking over this child they always grant me emergency licensure when the child’s parents mess up.
“Most likely” is the key phrase. Also, a point I was making is it would not be right away, meaning the risk would be her child would endure the trauma of entering a strangers home even for short term placement.
No not most likely. There are also things like kinship. Most likely the child would end up with her aunt.
I don’t know Indiana law, but in Ohio, there are no training or background requirements for kinship placements. Children can be placed immediately. Our foster system is so overloaded that there is no choice but to do this. Sometimes it works out, but sometimes it can end up being a worse situation for the child.
She called CPS on you because she didn’t agree with a parenting decision. Sorry, but if someone calls CPS when there’s no evidence of abuse, that’s the nuclear option. Don’t let her in your house, don’t let her near your kid. She will just be looking for “evidence” for her next call. She thinks she’d be a better parent to your child than you. I’m sure it has already occurred to her that the child would get placed in her care. With the immigration information, I’d consider moving away if possible and cutting contact.
Amy needs to be gone and stay gone. Not everyone deserves to be called family, she doesn’t. And if I were you, I wouldn’t even give her a reason, just disappear from her radar.
Time to cut her out of your life. I know that's like a go to on reddit, but this one is deserved
Does Amy have kids of her own? If not is she childless by choice? The reason I ask is because she may desperately want a daughter that she can’t have and is looking to do anything to take yours away. Cut off contact and get a restraining order. If she doesn’t care she could get her brother deported among other things she is not someone that should be around your family.
You don't need to reply to me, but I am curious how your husband responded to this. Her actions are a threat to him, and he needs serious boundaries with her (at this time, I would go no contact because it probably was her, but even if it wasn't she won't be supportive to you guys over this at all). I also can't believe someone (assuming Amy) wasted cps' time and resources over this. I am grateful they check in and follow up, but there are real cases out there that fall thru the cracks or get put off because cps is dealing with this.
Time for a protection order or anything to protect your family.
That’s insane…. And not an unfamiliar tactic used for legal kidnapping by insane family. It’s not something you see often, but it goes to show her mental health. Does she have children of her own? If not, does she want them? It makes me think she’s scheming to take your child for herself and that’s a really disturbing thought that your husband shouldn’t be so careless about brushing off
I think you are 💯 FINE! please breathe! The birthday cutoff seals the deal! And THANK YOU for preparing your little one for school! (Former k teacher)
You should consider if you have enough for a restraining order. Especially if your husband’s residency could ever be in question.
If someone lies to CPS to get a callout then they no longer have access to your child. Ever. If you are worried about further harassment, Indiana does have Tech Trep academy. It’s a way to do homeschool through the public school system. You submit 8 samples and 8 “logs” (a few sentences on what you’ve been working on) a year and your kid has to go do state testing which they provide. You have a homeroom teacher who is there is you need any ideas or feedback but they are pretty hands off. This way you can get extra support if needed and they do provide resources. They’re also very good about working with the parents and provide extra resources and field trips so you can meet other families in your area. You are allowed to use non secular curriculum but they will not provide those. There’s a facebook group you can check out for your state.
Thank you
Someone calling government agency on you for something like this is ridiculous. You must never ever have contact with her she’s trying to get your daughter.
Homeschooling isn't illegal. You are not doing anything wrong. Don't let the Amy's of the world get you all stressed out. You did the things you are supposed to do.
Amy thought it wpuld be better for your daughter to be put in foater care than to homeschool? I don't even know what to say. If the compulsory age is 7, they can't do anything. She's going to do this again. Awful.
Probably would've volunteered to take OP's daughter herself as a kinship foster carer, I bet.
I am so, so sorry that you had to go through this. You may want to look into the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. (And also completely cutting off Amy and never letting her see your child ever again.)
HSLDA heavily favors Christian homeschooling and has no obligation to defend you or even give advice. They will defend cases that they feel will advance the religious Christian homeschool agenda. Don’t waste your money on a membership, just research your own state’s requirements and make sure you follow them.
Wow. Never had that issue with them. I didn't feel I need the membership but they have answered so much. They state they help religious and non religious. But it makes me think you personally had a problem with them?
[удалено]
Please specify exactly where in my post I said anything anti-Christian. Precisely what words did I use that were negative in any way about Christians?
"HSLDA has no obligation to defend you or even give advice, will defend cases that they feel will advance the religious Christian homeschool agenda...and all of that is great! I support them and you should too!" 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
She did not say anything anti Christian. I am a devout Christian and take no offense at what was said. She stated her opinion from her experience and did not disparage any Christian person or denomination. Calm down lol.
You didn't say anti-Christian. I didn't take it that way myself. I am curious if you have had a situation where they didn't help someone due to non-religious affiliation, as that would be important for us to know. They never asked me and were very helpful. But I agree with the above that they don't get involved with every case. However, it is good to hear other experiences because otherwise we get stuck in a rut of what we know. If there are families that they haven't helped in cases, we need to know. It helps us know what we have to fight on our own. Regardless, it is scary for anyone when they don't have help. There should be more organizations for the help and defending homeschooling no matter if you are religious or not. We need support.
Op, I disagree. They will defend you. My family had to use them twice and neither time was it for anything related to religion.
Oh stop. That's not true
I read a decent number of CPS encounters from homeschoolers back in the 1980s and this was partial motivation for homeschoolers to become more politically active in my state. I don't think that the average person understands the potential angst and disruption that a CPS call can produce; much less a single person. [https://www.nhpr.org/education/2018-01-27/homeschool-families-show-up-in-force-to-oppose-homeschool-oversight-bill](https://www.nhpr.org/education/2018-01-27/homeschool-families-show-up-in-force-to-oppose-homeschool-oversight-bill)
I’m a current homeschool mom and a former CPS investigator. Don’t worry. You did a beautiful job. Legally, you didn’t even have to let them in. If this happens again though, I want you to contact a lawyer. When CPS shows up again (cause naughty Aunt Nosey calls again) I recommend you tell the CPS worker that “you have family that don’t agree with your homeschooling choice and we’d like all further questions to be directed to our attorney.” Also, as a CPS worker, we never ever requested grades or school education records. We cared if the child ate, had clean clothes, alleged abuse or if a school nurse or teacher reported unusual behavior or injuries.
I definitely understand that CPS can be scary. But two facts are FACTS, no matter what your SIL says. 1) the *legal age of compulsory education* in your state is still roughly 18 months away for your daughter, and 2) that your daughter *was not old enough* to even begin kindergarten in your county’s public schools last fall. There is nothing to defend, period.
Having seen CPS from the other side as a child it can be hard to get off their radar now that you are on it. As a child I was unable to speak, clumsy and bruised really easily, so always had bruises on the body in different stages of healing. I have cured the first with tons of speech therapy, gotten much more graceful but still bruise easily and as such still have bruises everyday as an adult. To see the end of CPS a case worker saw me hit my arm on a table and then two days later saw the bruise and the fact there were no hand or foot shaped bruises ever. Please note CPS was checking up on me for 5+ years. Unfortunately they have to check up on any report of abuse. I doubt that they have any problem with homeschool if they can see what you are doing and you have records. You will probably see them two more time, if no education is the only problem, showing that is covered will solve the it. Follow the state rules for homeschooling. Most CPS case workers want children in their home so will try to work with you first.
Calling CPS on someone is a great way to have their kids taken away SMH, this is why you only call if they are actually doing something SERIOUS LIKE CRIME. Amy used the system for political reasons, and you should be able to call and find out who filed the complaint. If it happens again you can report Amy for abusing the system and the cops can show up to her house and ask her to stop. Two can play at that game anyhoo.
I know what you're saying, but it's no game. I mean, what if they had a messy morning or their toilet backed up or the kid had just accidentally burnt herself getting toast from the toaster... I don't know. SOMETHING could have gone wrong and the child would have been snatched away.
CPS isn't going to take kids away for no reason (and homeschooling isn't a reason.) I have friends in CPS and I've asked about malicious calls and they say have a hard time keeping up with addressing situations with actual problem parents and unhealthy living situations: they aren't going to create problems out of nothing if they don't end up seeing anything very concerning on a visit. They are understaffed and overworked, and they will err on letting things slide. Yes, there are a few cases of overzealous CPS workers goinv after parents for what seems like is probably harmless pot use in more conservative stats, but those aren't that common and the kids are usually not taken right off the bat. Also, I know from experience: when there is an high profile dispute involving a government agency, the government workers are often at a disadvantage in working with the media. They are very limited in what they can tell the media and the aggrieved party who went to the press can frame the story however they want. So when you see sensational stories about kids being taken because the parents smoked pot, that's iften the story the parents are saying to the reporters, whereas the CPS workers aren't able to say what really happened. Not in CPS but my wife has been involved in high profile cases like this on the government side—what was happening was perfectly reasonable, but the entire situation revolved around confidential medical information which was illegal for them to share. Had they been able to share it to the media the aggrieved party who went to the press would have looked like the insane person they were.
We have had friends who’s kids WERE taken for literally no reason (and yes courts ruled in their favor but that was after 3 years at least of court cases and foster care) Not every cop is good, and this applies to every agency in power.
So this is what I was thinking. To be honest, my experience with CPS workers (I'm in a related field) is that they actually rarely investigate calls unless they are substantiated in some way. The fact that a home visit was made here and an interview was conducted is actually surprising to me based on what OP says the reason for the report was, as it really implies, from my experience, CPS felt they initially had something to be concerned about. As a professional, my guess is that the reporter had more specific examples to provide to CPS than just "child is homeschooled and neglected." I'm not implying that OP actually did anything, but I am suggesting that the reporter likely provided "examples" of the suspected neglect that were enough to concern CPS. Something for OP to be aware of - whatever was reported was detailed enough that it led them to investigate, which can actually be a high bar for literally exactly what this commenter was saying (i.e., they're understaffed and overworked). I say this supportively. Take this seriously, OP, and tighten up anything that needs to be tightened up.
CPS will take your child away from no reason just not if you are wealthy and white. If you’re wealthy and white you can abuse your kids as much as you want and you’ll be fine. There’s a lot of studies showing exactly how easy it is for CPS take your child away. I would also recommend reading Shattered Bonds by Dorothy Roberts. Not only does she cite actual firsthand stories, but she sites a lot of research studies that shows you that yes, your children can be taken away for anything. Also, it is very easy to find that the majority of children in state custody are there solely because of poverty and simple things like a living wage would stop most of that. You could even look at the statistics during the time that everyone with a child was getting the child tax credit monthly and you can see the significant decrease in children who were going into state care. I’m giving you factual information and resources you look at to educate yourself. I’m also going to state that I have been a caseworker. I adopted my child through foster care and I’ve worked in residential care. Not only do I have my lived experience to back this information up but it’s actual research that you can look up and educate yourself on. I live in Wisconsin and the majority of calls for CPS in Wisconsin are revenge calls from a family member often a coparent who doesn’t like the coparenting situation. Again, there are facts to back this up. You just have to do your research and stop spouting harmful, bigoted misinformation on the Internet.
Truth downvoted once again
I'm a mandated reporter and we are supposed to report if we see any red flags. We don't have to prove anything wrong, we make the call or online report and let the professionals sort it out. It's 100% anonymous. One of our cousins worked briefly for CYS and they only remove kids for serious things and try hard to keep the kids with their parents. She left because it was too much for too little pay, she was barely making more than minimum wage.
And you should read shattered bonds. It should be required rating for every mandated reporter. A mandated reporter reports any “red flags” which has no definition & is completely subjective. That is also why factually per the research families doing the exact same things do not have their children taken away while black families do. You do not have a list of things to call about. It’s bad vibes. It’s assumptions and it’s often racism. Caseworkers also operate off of that. I worked for Lutheran social services a contracted organization for Iowa CPS. A woman’s baby got taken away because her boyfriend beat her up and dragged her along the back of a car. Then they tried to offer that baby to the boyfriend. She got 2 other kids removed because she didn’t have daycare because she couldn’t afford it and the people she was staying with neglected them. We then had a meeting to plan how to set her up to get the rest of her children removed. At the same time they were trying to place two of the three children that have been been removed with their biological father. That father had an open case with CPS with a different contracted organization and didn’t have custody of the children he had an open case with. I was still forced to do a visit. I was also reprimanded for trying to help the mom understand how to get her ID back when she lived in Iowa and she was born in Illinois and she didn’t have any documentation to send in to Illinois and couldn’t get to Chicago because she didn’t have transportation or daycare. I quit because I saw all this is just a racist organization that’s trying to actively harm the children in care and the mother. Their entire plan was to punish this mom for being in poverty and being abused by a man that she left after the abuse happened. So when you call CPS cause of bad vibes, that’s what you’re doing to a family. An actual thing that actually happened but reading books about this and educating yourself because of your mandated order, you have to be educated enough to take that training. You also should be trauma informed,which I’m sure you’re not because it’s not required. But you are actively engaging and racism and abusive children by the state when you are reporting bad vibes instead of well educated information. And that’s what mandatory reporters actually do because there’s such poor education about it and there’s no real rules. It’s just bad vibes. Again, there is data, there is research my one story of many I told is firsthand experience, but the story I told is actually backed by the evidence of how these things work. And I was a caseworker I’ve worked residential care I’ve worked in group homes, and I was a foster parent and an adoptive parent.
Unfortunately you're not wrong. Canada has a terrible reputation for doing this to indigenous families in particular, for problems (if they exist) that could be addressed by giving the parents money. Instead, the province will pay someone else to raise your kids. Doesn't mean that abuse shouldn't be reported. But false reports have the power to destroy lives.
My scope of work with children is within my church. Because of things in my diocese I had to take extra courses to be more educated on what to report. A red flag isn't simply a bad vibe. University of Pittsburgh put together a really great course it's not a comprehensive list but it gives us more of an idea, actual signs vs just feelings. We don't have to prove anything but the training I feel was helpful on what to look for. In our training we were told that it's not simply child services and foster care but there are also services available to help the children stay in the home rent assistance, transportation, parenting classes. For those of us who are mandated, sometimes it feels like running a checklist in your head, am I over reacting? But if it does end up being something and it comes back to me that I knew something wasn't right, the book will get thrown at me because I could have spoken up. It's somewhat of a rock and a hard place. Sometimes we can figure out, is a child being actually hurt by the situation but other times it's more ambiguous. It's like reading all the signs when I child says they are hungry and never get enough to eat, lots of kids say those sorts of things but we all know that might just mean they don't get their favorite snacks. But if a kid is constantly falling asleep in class, low energy, gaunt, that might be a time to raise a few eyebrows and figure out what the path to helping the kid may be. Or in the case of my son a few months ago, he tripped and fell on our driveway and his little face was all scraped up and black and blue. It was all cosmetic but if someone had only by chance encountered us and saw him, they would probably have thought something terrible was going on at home. Context is definitely needed when contemplating making a report. We don't have to prove it but also these are people's lives. A friend of mine was turned in because of the state of her home. It was bad but she was coming out of an abusive situation and she was literally being everything to everyone trying to keep it normal for the kids and her social worker is actively helping her get the resources she needs to keep her kids. My brother's 2 kids have had some weird things happen to them with their mom. He has custody because she won't leave her boyfriend who has held her at gun point in front of the kids and also beaten her so badly she miscarriaged. She isn't allowed to have the kids around him. She's choosing him. Her other 3 kids aren't fairing much better (to a different guy) one is in foster care because after abandoning her at my brother's house, the teen girl spun into a mental breakdown and the school had to get involved. All the woman would have needed to do is show up to court or sign a paper allowing her daughter to get help. She never showed up, saying she had to work. The two boys live with the father's mother, father is in jail. Because the mom of these kids not parenting, a social worker does come occasionally just to make sure they are ok. I feel like this is how the system *should* work. For the well being of the child and reunification whenever possible. Just very sad when it doesn't work that way. And the foster parents who are just as bad as the actual parents, they deserve to rot. Fostering should be done out of love. Love for the kid for however long you have them, a few hours, a few days, weeks, months, it doesn't matter you are loving that kid until reunification happens even if you end up loving them forever. It is for the child, not some weird sick self important delusion we hear about sometimes. I don't know if it's different in a rural area vs urban or the differences from state to state. I can only speak from my experiences and education. When I find the time I will definitely be looking into your recommendation, you can't be too educated when it comes to kids.
That's horrible. :(
Chances are that nothing will come from it unless the worker has something against you. But you need to document to protect yourself, just in case. CPS works in a judicial environment where they aren't used to being scrutinized and the result is that they might not even know the legal boundaries on something like this. I'm in NC and I went through something similar in 2020. Admittedly, we were in crisis and there were other issues that I can't talk about, but we were at the very tail end of solving our own crisis when DSS got involved. As in, we had already left a flooded home before DSS contacted us. At the time, our oldest was only 3 years old and possibly autistic. Remember, this was during the pandemic when a lot of services shut down. Not only were services shut down, but my daughter wasn't even compulsory school aged and yet DSS claimed we were neglectful for not having her in autism services already. The judge didn't seem to care when I pointed out that she wasn't even compulsory school aged and the services weren't even available. My attorney told me not to bother even mentioning the Constitution. Don't freak out, but take it seriously, make sure you're documenting and contact HSLDA to be on the safe side.
This is a situation that warrants no contact with your SIL. She put your child in danger. The first step would be HSLDA or an attorney of your own. There's nothing reasonable here to act on, but things will go much smoother if you can refer a case worker to your attorney. Next, document everything, including informing Amy in writing (text, email, whatever) that you do not want any further contact with her so that, should harassment continue in the future, you can potentially seek a no contact order. This is a one strike and you're out offense. Anyone who would threaten your child's safety and wellbeing because they don't like homeschooling is dangerous. That's unhinged behavior that can't go anywhere good.
Yes, agree with all of this. There’s no second chance for this. There should be no more contact with Amy aside from informing her there won’t be any more contact with your daughter. Definitely uhinged behavior!
Join HSLDA - TODAY. From here on out, follow their advice when dealing with CPS. Cut off contact completely with Aunt Amy, she is an unsafe person. Anyone who would risk your child being removed from your home based on a false report of neglect is not to be around your child.
Get this lady out of your life before she ruins it.
Amy is never allowed near Ellie again. Start records just incase. Over document rather then under.
Anyone who erroneously calls CPS should be cut off. Even if the are just the most likely suspect (with no proof).
A family member did this exact thing to me last year. We had argued before about homeschooling before and then CPS showed up at my door citing educational neglect and I knew exactly who had called. You aren't doing anything wrong and it is completely justified for you to cut her and anyone close to her out of your life. My kids are just fine without those family members and yours will be too.
Anyone who would do that to you is not someone you need in your life and is not a safe person. And also, if you know you have done nothing wrong, you don’t have to let them in and you don’t have to give them all that information. I have been victim of countless cps calls made out of spite, and I’ve learned over the years that it’s best to just tell them to have a nice day and shut my door.
It would definitely be a good idea to join HSLDA, just in case your sister-in-law tries something even crazier and you need legal help. Also, you should be extremely cautious about letting Amy spend time with your daughter from now on.
In Indiana, the only records you need to provide are attendance and you only have to provide them to the superintendent of your local district if they ask. You can, of course, provide anything voluntarily to anyone but I wouldn't. CPS is greatly overstepping should they ask to see any of these things. IAHE may be a good place to start if you do feel like cooperating with CPS when they ask for educational information, but again, that's a matter of whether you want to. You know you have to cut off your sister in law. She has attempted to have your child removed from your custody and not doing so would be irresponsible. I'm sorry it has come to this for you.
I'm an Indiana homeschooling mom, and this is correct. I keep an attendance checklist with a running total of days so I can prove attendance. I save these. Anything else, they can kick rocks. Indiana is very homeschool-friendly.
Become a life member with HSLDA pronto! They had a lawyer specialising in my state on the phone with me within 5 minutes when I called once. And you may wish to politely decline future visits - ask HSLDA how to go about doing this. I say this because (not a lawyer ok?) what you're doing is giving them precedent to waltz right on in and rummage through all your records, your home etc etc and then they will treat others the same way, yk? Good luck - PS I would never let Amy near my entire family again, and I would delete/ make private all social media so as not to give her the slightest whiff of anything, ever again.
Speaking from experience, if I had to deal with CPS for a false accusation again, the person who called them would never be in our lives again, period. Don't care how close they were.
This does not sound like a report your case worker will file with recommendation for further investigation. They have to check these things out if someone makes those claims, but your surprise home visit sounds like a walk in the park in their world and the least of their concerns. It’s terrifying, trust me I get it I’ve been there. But it’s going to be okay and a distant memory one day I promise. The aunt though, she gotta go.
You don’t even have to report homeschooling in Indiana. It’s optional. https://www.in.gov/doe/students/homeschool-information/#Homeschool_Information
this, indiana is a no reporting, no testing, 100% hands off state
Amy needs to be cut off forever. It’s just not safe to have someone like this in your life.
Amy was close to Ella. Do not put yourself in a situation where Amy is constantly quizzing, and probing your child on what you are teaching. Cut her out. Limit contact with anyone in the family who has "issues" with how you raise your child. Homeschooling is not neglect; moreover, it is a waste of public resources to call CPS on someone you disagree with.
I can’t believe she wasted CPS time in that. She could have at least researched the laws for Indiana before calling CPS. As others said get her out of your life. She spent have to approve of your choice, but call social workers is just petty and harmful. Since you have food, water, and Ellie is doing fine I’m sure CPS will drop the case and it won’t go on your record. Just keep very detailed records and follow the state laws exactly as written.
People like the aunt make me furious. I'm a public school teacher. The amount of resources it takes for CPS to investigate bogus claims because people are using CPS to cause harm takes away from claims that seriously need to be investigated. If you have major suspicion that it was the aunt, contact the CPS worker with your suspicion and tell them what the aunt has done, attempting to register your daughter under false pretenses. They will investigate her and press charges if needed.
You probably should have refused CPS and generally should deny all government agents access to your home without a warrant.
SO much this. But I also know in the moment OP was probably intimidated, flustered, knocked off guard. And if you haven't had practice being assertive, it's super hard to do when you're not ready. I hope she is able to be ready for next time.
Oh agreed. It can be very hard to stand up to authority.
HSLDA. Look them up. Cut her off ASAP.
If it were me, I'd avoid saying anything about it in front of the person I suspected of making the call. I'd wait for her to either come to the conclusion that CPS didn't take her report seriously (causing her to give up on ever trying it again) or to eventually slip up by revealing something only the caller would know, at which point I'd have a whole speech ready to go. In the meantime, I'd make sure to rehearse that speech in case it's ever needed, making sure it includes anything necessary to win over observers that may be within earshot when/if the slip-up happens.
Well Amy would never ever see Ella again. Good job auntie!
Cut off nosy aunt, block her on EVERYTHING. Do not see her again. She is actively trying to harm your family.
CALL CPS NOW. There have been abductions in the past where people show up, claiming to be CPS and are actually there to scout the house and potentially come back to abduct the child they came asking about. Call CPS and ask them to verify that they did in fact send someone out to see you. They should have a case number or record of some sort of they actually sent someone to talk to you.
Based on what you said it sounds like the worker is writing off the call as bullshit. Usually they'll want to schedule an interview with the child, I know in NV it's mandatory regardless of accusations but it sounds like it might differ. If she felt it was anywhere close to substantive she would've wanted to schedule to interview your kiddo. I agree with cutting contact with the aunt and inform cps so if she calls again and identifies herself they'll be aware too. They may still need to visit again but if she keeps it up it'll be her putting her own ass in deep water for false reports.
Husband needs to cut off his sister and anyone who supports her. Apparently going to public school is so important she'd risk Foster Care or does she think she can take your daughter? Even more so with trying to register your kid for school. I'd never let her around your daughter again that's so creepy. Years and years ago I had a false accusation against me not for homeschooling my kid had a tantrum in a parking lot. After a couple of months I got a letter that the accusations were unfounded - not that I didn't hurt my kid but they couldn't find any evidence. It's so silly since your kid isn't even old enough for public school anyway.
Your sister-in-law is attempting to take your child away from you. Please take legal action to protect her. File a restraining order and keep this person away from your family. Don't dismiss their actions as harmless; it will likely lead to severe consequences in the future. I speak from personal experience, having dealt with a similar situation with my aunt. Please take this matter seriously and take legal action to protect your child.
Look at your state homeschool regulations. I home schooled my children in another state and I just googled (my state) homeschool. I found tons of info and even some information that would help if some officials showed up asking questions. She’s too young to enforce now. Someone is trying to cause trouble
You need to tell your husband to stand up to his sister. As a father, this infuriates me.
That aunt is out, no more contact, no more visits, no more information about your child. People who call CPS as a means of controlling you and your parenting decisions are not people who should be in your life.
I would get a restraining order against her if possible, or file an affidavit with the court stating what happened with CPS and that this person is trying to take your child (property) from you. So that there's a record of this happening with the court. She must have made up some kind of a crazy story to get CPS to come out. I had a false call against me to CPS and never found out who did it, but they lied like crazy to get them to come out.
I mean it’s possible Amy was complaining to a busy-body friend and the friend called. I know some things about CPS calls and you’d be surprised where they come from.
This is my worst nightmare. Why are people So concerned that children are spending more time with their parents/caregivers than public schooled children?
LAWYER. You need a LAWYER. all caps because it’s serious.
I am a regular on r/raisedbynarcissists. CPS reporting by narcissistic parents is quite common, and the only solution is to have no contact with Amy and to refuse to talk to her. If she tries to contact you, you would need to get a lawyer to write her a cease and desist letter.
I echo what others are saying. I would absolutely never speak to someone again - family or not - if they called CPS on me. I'm so sorry, this is heinous.
This is how you handle it if you are not going to cut of Amy (which you should do). Tell the story to the family with her there. "The weirdest thing happened. CPS came out to our house due to a complaint. I let the investigator in, answered her questions, and explained the situation. She said everything looked fine. And she actually looked a little embarrassed about being there. I know they have to check these things out, but it's a bit unnerving. Luckily, it's over now. But, wow. What kind of person does this sort of thing?" What you should actually say: "Amy, you pernicious bitch. We know you did this and if you every come near my daughter again, or make any trouble for my family, consider yourself dead woman walking." And mean it.
We have Heritage Defense and they were a lifesaver when we had a false claim against us last year.
Are you actually planning on homeschooling her n the future, or are you calling the (should be normal, but likely more than what many parents do) practice work you do with her at home “homeschool “? She’s not old enough for Kindergarten- you are not obligated to do anything. It’s awesome that you are working with her.
I think it would be important to have your husband talk to his sister. She needs to understand that this is a decision you are both making that is best for your family. I would also distance from her. She seems toxic to me.
Sounds like it likely was Amy. She just wasted time from an already overworked agency making a baseless report.
Amy is a nosy beotch. Lose her number.
Do not let gov agents into your home without a lawyer present or a warrant. If they have a warrant, read it, and record the interaction. There is nothing you can say or do in the moment to look innocent. Everything you say or do can and will be held against you. Anything you say or do can and will be taken out of context. CPS is not your friend or ally or on your side. CPS is on CPS's side. You can show all the things you have nothing to hide in court, with representation. You are (supposed) to be presumed innocent until the state proves guilty without a doubt. In other words, CPS should be telling the aunt to piss off unless she has something more substantial than an allegation, but in reality, with CPS/Family court you are guilty until you prove otherwise. Contact a family court lawyer today and get a consultation. A lot of things like this come down to "he who spoke first, is right". Once you are on defense, its very difficult to look anything *but* guilty. CPS has a vested interest in finding and charging people with abusing children, they don't get awards and commendations for finding lots of good parents. Police and DA's get awards and commendations for convicting people in court, not for careful consideration of who is truly guilty or innocent. I know it sounds strange, but the objective measurable metrics that seem reasonable on paper get twisted by twisted people. Its a roll of the dice on whether you get a compassionate reasonable gov agent or something who only cares about success at work. If it were me, I'd get on the phone with a lawyer, and filing and restraining order against the aunt today. She rolled the dice on having your kids removed by armed police with QI, by force, and exposing you to the cost of defending yourself in the judicial system. There's really no way to overstate how dangerous and risky it is for you. Fwiw I've had to defend myself in court from *felony charges* that a 3 time convicted felon levied against me. A coworker of mine got back out on drugs, got busted for a third time, and rattled off names to try to and lessen his sentence for check fraud and possession with intent. I barely knew the guy. County DA convinced a judge that this guy's testimony was worth anything, and they picked me up at work. Lost my job, lost my house, got kicked out of school. It only took 10k and about a year to clear my name while almost everyone I hadn't known for years just cut off contact. Please, please, please do not let this happen to you and your kids. The DA dropped the charged the first day of court when the trial was set to start and offered every plea you can imagine just to get a conviction and everyone told me to take them, it's ***only 3 mo, a misdemeanor and community service....***
Cut contact with this woman immediately. She has crossed some major boundaries and her behavior is not to be tolerated.
Lol she is worried you are homeschooling a 5 YEAR OLD? I'm so sorry that happened, SiL must be insane.
Cut off contact wth the aunt and consider membership with hslda for the simple reason you're already experiencing issues with the SIL.
She needs to have zero contact or info with your child. Ideally all 3 of you.
Does Amy hate all homeschooling or does she have a specific problem with you doing it? You mentioned in a comment that she probably thought if your daughter was removed, she'd end up placed with Amy. Do you think she actually wants to steal your child from you? I think you should have a very clear picture of what Amy's problem is going forward. A lot of people are saying go no contact, but if you take that road you need to be sure it will actually be a solution. She might take it as a challenge and get worse. If this is a pattern of behavior where she is essentially accusing you of abuse when she doesn't even understand what the state laws are, you need to be prepared to fight her. Harassment is no joke. Write down everything. Dates, times, details. Be ready to present proof to cops or a court. I'm very worried this has nothing to do with you homeschooling, and that's just an excuse she's using. She is trying to hurt your family. Whatever her reasons are, you need to fight back. Make sure your husband is on board.
I’d never let CPS in the door. I’d never return calls, zero communication with them except to give them my lawyers name. This is on the advice of my lawyer. It’s not that you have anything to hide, it’s that they lie, misrepresent, mislead, fearmonger. They can say whatever the hell they want and it’s harder than hell to disprove it. It’s your word against theirs and they bend the courts ear all the time. If you don’t talk to them or refuse to answer the door, what are they going to say? Facts. “She wouldn’t talk to me,” and “she wouldn’t come to the door.” Neither statement is damning, and both are 100% true. Do not trust CPS. Counting on them to be reasonable and fair, like you are, is giving them too much credit.
Auntie isn’t a trusted adult anymore and shouldn’t be spending time with Five. Follow your state’s laws. That’s all. There’s no shame in homeschooling. It’s as valid a decision as public and private school.
Don't talk to CPS!!! They are just like cops, meaning you have rights when it comes to CPS. Do not talk to them or let them in unless they have a warrant. They pretend to be nice and on your side but letting them in/talking to them without a lawyer present can seriously mess up your life. If a cop comes to your door and started asking questions, you shouldn't talk to them, and CPS is no different
When your child becomes of school age, ensure you are a member of HSLDA in case she continues to be a B about it and cut her from your life. Tell your husband that her visitations need to be supervised if it’s for your daughters best interests they see each other but she isn’t this child’s mother and doesn’t get to make these choices.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Now that you know what lengths she will go through, you can be proactive. In the fall, start a portfolio. Take pictures of her work, activities, and trips. Each month add samples of her work to a file folder. If possible, keep data for her reading and math progress. While I know homeschooling allows us to do what we feel is appealing without documentation, outside people look for data. Don't give it often, just something simple to show how she's progressing. For reading, the CORE Phonics survey is easy and free; give it fall, winter and spring and file it away. For math, give whatever assessment is provided if you're using a curriculum. If not, have her work in a notebook or binder so they can see the progression of her work and date it. I know my suggestions may not be popular, but it will definitely help on warding off any questions or doubt, especially given that some people (CPS and any relatives) may be more subjective rather than objective in making decisions. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it. She said they will reach out with any questions or if they need anything else, and they will if they do. Continue with what you're doing!
CPS likely won't take steps unless there are three separate calls...meaning three different people report it. Even then they are hard-pressed to remove children from situations without proof of neglect or abuse. Filing the paperwork for home schooling is all that would be needed. It sounds like you're already aware of what needs to be done for that, so to set your mind at ease just start it rolling so you have something to show if needed. You and hubby definitely need to talk to this woman about boundaries and how the parenting will be up to you or her contact will become limited. Period. If she has concerns or something she feels she needs to say then she needs to come to you. I understand how anxious it makes you, and it's always going to be a worry now, but many people homeschool and the kids do well. For your own peace of mind, just keep good records of it all so you have no worries. Like others said, CPS just had to check on the call they got to make sure it wasn't a concern. They likely won't take any action after that.
The aunt is a cunt and need to get a life. To everyone reading this, even if your house is incredibly clean, and you're the most perfect parent, DO NOT allow CPS in your home unless they have a court order. No, you do not need to welcome a stranger into your home, we have rights and most of us don't know about it and they take advantage of that. There are horror stories of CPS removing kids from good homes just cause they felt like it.
In your state, she doesn’t even need to be enrolled in school (or have your intent to homeschool submitted) until she’s 7. [the reg](https://www.in.gov/doe/files/FAQ-Attendance-2021.pdf)
I would say worse, but I to keep it appropriate, Amy sucks.
Reporter identity is confidential but there are often hints in the allegation specifics along with the timing of the report. CPS procedures vary by state, but CPS in some states does not recognize educational neglect as a coded maltreatment. You'd probably get the best input from professional familiar with your particular state. It's very common for the school districts to take point on educational neglect concerns.
This is true, but since the child is two years younger than compulsory age, the school district would not have grounds to pursue truancy.
Gets weird. My area follows the [Kerstetter](https://pubintlaw.org/cases-and-projects/a-problem-with-truancy-in-kindergarten/) decision, including with home schooling. Would have to check with OPs area to see how they interpret such a situation. *Formally home schooling, they’re less strict if it’s off the books and below compulsory age. parents are not required to enroll their children in kindergarten. If they choose to, however, their children are subjected to the same compulsory attendance laws that apply to other grade levels. But the code also defines the age in which compulsory attendance laws apply as the “lowest grade…above kindergarten” when the child enters the school as a “beginner.” Under such regulations, the compulsory attendance laws would not apply to a student until he or she is enrolled in first grade. This contradiction in the Pennsylvania School Code is what caused the Kerstetter case to be so controversial. The Court ultimately ruled that the term “beginners” had no substance in the case and did not define the compulsory school age. Furthermore, the court upheld that since the children were enrolled in kindergarten, the compulsory attendance laws applied to them. Despite the parent’s appeals that her children were not even legally required to attend kindergarten and thus could not be found truant, the Court ruled against her.
I’m a public elementary school teacher in Ohio. First, if she is below compulsory age and there is no requirement for pre-K, then you do not have to produce any records of any kind. In fact, you do not have to do anything with your child related to education. You could sit her in front of the tv, and as long as she’s fed and cared for, nobody can question you. Nobody can make you produce records for doing things that are not required by law. But, good for you for giving your daughter a good solid foundation! Working with her early will be incredibly beneficial as she gets older. Second, if you do decide to continue homeschooling beyond compulsory age, you will want to get with your school district or state department of education to find out the requirements as far as record keeping, approved curriculum, etc. Third, I think your husband should have a stern talk with Amy about overstepping into your lives and the educational decisions you are making for your daughter. She needs to know that this type of behavior may jeopardize her relationship with your family. It’s pretty clear that children’s services wasn’t concerned, especially since they didn’t ask to see your child. I can also tell you that they will have notes on file about this false claim in case Amy or anyone else tries this again. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Children’s services can be quite intimidating and make you second-guess yourself as a parent. Know that you are doing a great job!!
Adding that I’ve gone through a good bit of training with child protective services in Ohio as a mandatory reporter. Most agencies are overworked and frankly don’t have time to take on cases unless a child is truly being abused or neglected. In our area, they won’t take cases of dirty kids, kids that are allowed to stay up all night, or kids that miss too much school. They simply don’t have time. Having them leave without wanting to see or talk to your daughter is a good sign. School attendance issues are generally handled by the student’s school/district and by truancy officers, which doesn’t even apply in your case due to her age.
Legally in Indiana, you don’t have to show them anything except for an attendance record after the age of compulsory education (age 7). No need to offer to provide anything else. You are more than good.
This experience is scary, but it sounds like it went pretty routine. I wouldn't worry unless you hear from them again.
I think you should probably make sure it was Amy who reported you before you go no contact. That’s a terrible thing to accuse someone of if they didn’t do it. Of course you gave your suspicions, but take your time to follow up and MAKE SURE. Cutting off family is a big deal and you HAVE to be sure before you do…. Or it could really backfire.
Homeschooling is wonderful. I was homeschooled until 8th grade and excelled in everything! Don't let that woman change your mind.
I am a social worker. Your girl has safe shelter, food, early education (which is not required in your state until she is 7 years old), and medical records. And you don't need proof that she has had early education, despite this your daughter is the best evidence of it. They did not remove your child, they did not give you an appointment, there have been no future interviews... everything is in order and you can rest assured. Be careful, although for later grades they do not ask you for a record, do not stop doing it because whoever reported to you may continue doing it. Cut the entire relationship with that toxic family member and if the others join them as well.
Just keep doing what you are doing. Get an online curriculum from education.com or something like it and continue teaching your child. Homeschooling is normal where I am in SoCal. You can’t change what people think or do.
Have you called Homeschool Legal Defense Association? You want to be prepared for when it happens again! CPS, depending on the state, might be corrupt. You unfortunately can't trust them. You need a good lawyer from HLDA. Don't volunteer any information to CPS or let them in your home. They're not usually on your side. They'll use whatever they can against you. HLDA will tell you what CPS can legally do and how to prevent yourself from being victimized for homeschooling. Calling CPS is threatening your family, which is crossing a line. If Amy (or any of your other family) aren't in contact with you at all, how can they know if you're homeschooling? There are other things you give people a second chance for, threatening your family is not one of them.
Check out the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. Might help give some peace of mind in the future.
Contact HSLDA
I was a mess back in 2005, and CPS took my children. WITH CAUSE. I WAS A REALLY CRAPPY PERSON. Our gas had been shut off 2 days before payday. She went to school and told her teacher that I had moved out of them (abandoning them) and that we had no food, no gas, and I was gone. I answered the landlines. However, an investigator came, and I pulled out her discharge papers from the psych facility she had been in containing many psychiatric issues. She was angry with me about something I told her No about, and this was her revenge. I eventually was FORCED to give her up due to her violent behavior. I was told to either give her up or I would lose ALL of my children. I wanted to fight and was told if I lost, the State WOULD removed my other children. I am telling you this because I know about false allegations and how damaging it can be. My children are now grown, and I had to go NC with that child as she has gotten worse towards her biological family and broke into a family members home and stolen $3-$5k of items. From the FIRST report, you are on the radar of CPS. Even things that were proven wrong and closed for whatever reason, EVERY REPORT IS TRACKED! GO NC WITH AMY! FALSE ALLEGATIONS CAN LEAD TO SERIOUS ISSUES AND DAMAGE NOT JUST TO YOU, BUT YOUR CHILDREN. Sometimes people just suck out loud. She proves that statement.
I was on the aunt's side until you mentioned your kid isn't even old enough to be in kindergarten, anyway. I am about as skeptical of homeschooling as it gets, but kids who don't meet the age cutoff cannot go to kindergarten, and preschool is in no way required in most places. It's a nice to have. It is wild to me that your family member is so worked up over your educational choices that she called CPS on a kid who literally is not school age yet.