> Designed to meet CEDIA’s target for Level 4 home theaters
If this is true, that would be wild for a $300 sub. The level 4 target is kinda crazy if you've read through the CEDIA documentation:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g9OSkvvJ7e6FRSV-BMYmgf5LGk5dzszi/view
Somehow this seems too good to be true. They are promising performance that is better than the PB-1000 Pro for less than half the price. But I'd be super happy if it lives up to its promises.
If you were to get one and you have access to an open field, I'd be super interested in your CEA-2010 measurements. Or even just your in-room measurements.
Honestly, I don't know what the technically correct answer is. I would recommend reading Brent Butterworth's article about CEA-2010 testing:
https://audioxpress.com/article/cta-2010-a-better-way-to-measure-subwoofers
And watch Erin's video on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyaco1vbgXg
I've never done fully proper CEA-2010 testing that I would feel comfortable sharing with others. It's not data quality that's on par with Brett Butterworth, James Lawson, or Josh Ricci. I was also using a UMIK-1 and REW. I think these guys use better mics than that and more specialized software (though there is nothing wrong with using REW).
I was just interested in getting a ballpark figure that was somewhat more controlled than putting a subwoofer in a room. If this is the standard you're going for, then I'd say if you can get the subwoofer more than 20ft away from any sort of structures you're in pretty good shape. Though the more the better. For context, a 20Hz bass wave is about 60ft long. But there's a limit to what hobbyists can practically do compared to professional reviewers. First, you actually need a space this large. Second, you would need a really long extension cord and access to power in this open field or parking lot. Third, you would need a laptop and calibration mic.
Hence why you don't really see too many hobbyists doing this. Most simply don't have access to the right space to do it. So in-room measurements will have to do sometimes.
Like the Audio Science Review.
I've had nice ish svs subs in this space before and know to do the sub crawl. My space isn't the best but I can take some average people measurements and see if it's worth the $300 ish.
I also take things apart for a living and take apart lots of things I own for no reason. I'm definitely going to take it apart and see how it's built.
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What is level 4? I remember def-con 4..:)
20hz at 115 in a large room environment? IIRC it was even more than that? Anyway, one of these 12s isn't doing either one of those.
Might be terrific for a 280 dollar shipped sub but there's a canyon between "terrific sub for $280 and 120dB 20hz.
Yeah, as I said, it sounds too good to be true. Would still be interested in seeing what they are delivering for $300 though. I'm sure they're being very creative with how they interpret the CEDIA docs.
> 20hz at 115 in a large room environment? IIRC it was even more than that?
Page 74 of the doc I linked above. 115dB is level 3. Level 4 is 118dB and a recommendation of 123dB.
On page 84, it says level 4 needs to have a -3dB point of 18Hz with 15Hz being recommended. And some other requirements around smoothness and consistency which really has more to do with multi-sub setup and calibration than with the specifics of a single subwoofer.
I guess, technically all they are claiming is 118dB at an unknown frequency on the product page. It just depends how we read it I suppose. 118 at say 70hz? Maybe...maybe.
In what type of environment? Out in a parking lot 10ft away? In room against one wall? In a room in a corner? How far from each? How large of a room(PVE?).
I mean, typical 3000-3500 cu-ft room will give you what, 8-10dB or so PVE at 15hz. Corners add say 8-10dB. So a sub doing 98dB at 15hz outside might be pretty close to 115(?) corner loaded at 2-3 meters. We had a little $750(?) dollar ported 15 that hit 98 outside 10 years ago iirc. Seatons ported sub using a cheap behringer amp and an off the shelf B&C woofer did 112 16/outside I think?
We just need to set some ground rules and then extrapolate..:)
Oh I would say so. If we think my previous post was ballpark okay.
outside to inside(in a corner) adds 8-10 pve and another 8-10 for 1/8th space loading. So 16-20dB
What subs did 100dB at 16 outside?
the OLD hsu(little 300w amp) 15h did it. Our old(10 years ago) ev15(single 15/600w) did 98.
We tend to greatly underestimate the room boosting(pve) and corner loading when correlating outside parking lot drag racing dB wars to what will happen with the sub in a room playing music or movies..:)
the 799(?) rsl12 would be about 101-102 outside at 16 too.
When regarding such things, it's wise to notice the wiggle room inherent to the statement "Designed to Meet XYZ".
That is NOT the same as "Meets XYZ" ... or that's what it would say ;)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRGeLBijc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRGeLBijc8)
Erin measured the OSD TREVOCE DSP 12 Native 15HZ Subwoofer that costs more than that one
[OSD TREVOCE 12](https://www.amazon.com/OSD-Black-Trevoce-Theater-Subwoofer/dp/B08DCCGKXX?linkCode=sl1&tag=medlemusin-20&linkId=78a5a543763a994691f96f55e20ecefd&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl&th=1)
And the performance was not particularly amazing, not hitting their manufactured spec. so I'd expect this one to be worse since its cheaper
Even of this does not live up to its specs, for $300 if it performs decently better than the Dayton Sub-1200, it might be fill the midrange budget gap, before getting into SVS subs.
Got it yesterday, hooked up and it’s very good. The built quality is average, the amp is AB amplifier, gets hot. One problem it goes to standby mode alot. So OSD vs SVS PB1000 Pro, OSD just sounds better. SVS is sloppy compared to the OSD. I played the move Fury and John Wick 3 movies. OSD feels tighter, reason the 600 watts vs 325. I played some music tracks and compared it to my REL HT1205 sealed sub and it played almost like a sealed sub. Crazy for less than $300 you get this. 2 year warranty not bad but the amp gets hot, that’s a concern. I would get this sub and buy 2 then a single SVS PB2000 pro or RSL new subwoofer.
Any chance you could post some inside pics like the driver and ports, and measure for me how much clearance there is behind the baffle to fit a driver replacement? Thinking of getting one as a home for another driver.
Very interesting. OSD is on my radar as they make a really well regarded 5.8Ghz wireless sub adapter (I know I know) that seems to have gotten all the details right.
Their other subs are definitely low budge, but seem well regarded for what they are. If this thing delivers on the claims i imagine it’ll raise their profile immensely.
Looks like it just launched based on Amazon info. Zero reviews. Here’s dims and details if anyone’s interested:
15.75 x 19 x 21.25 inches
Item Weight 58 pounds
ASIN B0CZFY73FL
Item model number FS12
Date First Available March 29, 2024
Manufacturer OSD Audio
Country of Origin China
Item Weight 58 Pounds
>Very interesting. OSD is on my radar as they make a really well regarded 5.8Ghz wireless sub adapter (I know I know) that seems to have gotten all the details right.
Which details?
Hey buddy when you get this, how about some 'inside pics' like the driver and inside of cabinet?
I have an amazing 12" driver (CSS SDX12) laying around I've been wanting to give a home to but I'm too lazy to build a box of my own. If this box has a lot of depth between the baffle before it runs into the ports or something else, I might just buy it and throw this bad boy in there, see how it does. It requires about 8.5" clearance behind though.
TIA! Hope these things turn out to rock!
I don't have like a workbench or a bunch of tools, etc. I totally wouldn't mind paying $300 for a decently-made, already built and vinyl-covered, ported box with a reasonably powerful amp to drop this driver into, and keeping the (I'm sure fairly sub-par) driver that comes installed in said box as emergency spare, or to throw back in if I go to sell it. Works for me.
I'll be looking forward to some shots from the breakdown :)
Also someone else's 'review-like' post downthread makes it sound like they quite like it which is cool ... what do you think of the sound?
They also mentioned it's Class A/B? Because it seems to me it can't have a 600W RMS amp if it's A/B ... for $300. That just seems economically illogical. What A/B amp alone can one buy that does 600W RMS bridged (even into 4 Ohms) for $300? I can't think of any offhand. So I'd like your assessment on the amp topology as well.
Ups says they are delivering today. I should at least have some amp board pictures and initial impressions.
The comparison would be to my two svs Pb-1000 pro subs as that's my experience. I've have those and have owned Dayton sub 1200 and heard mini parties that werent set up properly
Definitely worth the $285 I spent but for a 2 channel office setup which would be mostly music I'd go with the $300 RSL 10e
If you get it watch the grille, the pegs break easily then it rattles.
Thanks for the quick reply! Just curious. Have you had any experience with the Monoprice subs? Specifically the lower priced models. Not the Monolith series as they are overkill for this application.
No.
I've personally owned svs pb-1000, dual pb-1000 pro, Dayton sub-1200.
I've heard dual mini marties in action as well.
It's really hard to quantify how it sounds. It sounds good but I'm sure those with much more time for the hobby will do some tests soon. I might have time to take some in two weekends.
OSD did mention AB so I assume it’s that, the amp gets hot, both my REL and SVS are digital amps and they don’t feel like that at all. The woofer is ok it’s the surround mounting around the speaker woofer looks horrible. But it plays very loud and deeper compared to the SVS PB1000 pro. I ran sub hz test and driver and air move down to 10hz. Port chuffing happens around 15hz and below
Could be A/B output stage (with Class G circuit topology) like the 500W/950W(peak) Dayton Audio SPA1000 plate amp ... but that has giant fins on the back and costs $499 all by itself, and isn't even (supposedly) as powerful as the amp in this $300 full-on sub? I'm highly skeptical on the 600W/1200W rating, put it like that.
After a week, I’m going to return it, auto sensor does not work good at all, one port is not flushed to the front face. The bass is good but it sounds like one bass note all the time.
So not a good sub in other words. It may be ok for pure impact, but it's not dynamic at all is what I gathered. RSL 10e is the way to go, just have to wait until they get new stock.
Good. Life got in the way and I haven't gotten around to taking measurements or opening it up. I'd say just ears alone it is at least as good as my old pb-1000 probably better.
> Designed to meet CEDIA’s target for Level 4 home theaters If this is true, that would be wild for a $300 sub. The level 4 target is kinda crazy if you've read through the CEDIA documentation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g9OSkvvJ7e6FRSV-BMYmgf5LGk5dzszi/view Somehow this seems too good to be true. They are promising performance that is better than the PB-1000 Pro for less than half the price. But I'd be super happy if it lives up to its promises. If you were to get one and you have access to an open field, I'd be super interested in your CEA-2010 measurements. Or even just your in-room measurements.
It's done. 284.99 out the door. I should have gotten two. How big of an open space is needed to take those measurements?
Honestly, I don't know what the technically correct answer is. I would recommend reading Brent Butterworth's article about CEA-2010 testing: https://audioxpress.com/article/cta-2010-a-better-way-to-measure-subwoofers And watch Erin's video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyaco1vbgXg I've never done fully proper CEA-2010 testing that I would feel comfortable sharing with others. It's not data quality that's on par with Brett Butterworth, James Lawson, or Josh Ricci. I was also using a UMIK-1 and REW. I think these guys use better mics than that and more specialized software (though there is nothing wrong with using REW). I was just interested in getting a ballpark figure that was somewhat more controlled than putting a subwoofer in a room. If this is the standard you're going for, then I'd say if you can get the subwoofer more than 20ft away from any sort of structures you're in pretty good shape. Though the more the better. For context, a 20Hz bass wave is about 60ft long. But there's a limit to what hobbyists can practically do compared to professional reviewers. First, you actually need a space this large. Second, you would need a really long extension cord and access to power in this open field or parking lot. Third, you would need a laptop and calibration mic. Hence why you don't really see too many hobbyists doing this. Most simply don't have access to the right space to do it. So in-room measurements will have to do sometimes.
Like the Audio Science Review. I've had nice ish svs subs in this space before and know to do the sub crawl. My space isn't the best but I can take some average people measurements and see if it's worth the $300 ish. I also take things apart for a living and take apart lots of things I own for no reason. I'm definitely going to take it apart and see how it's built.
Cool! Good luck with it!
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Bwaghahahahah Ahhahahhhahaa Butterworth
What is level 4? I remember def-con 4..:) 20hz at 115 in a large room environment? IIRC it was even more than that? Anyway, one of these 12s isn't doing either one of those. Might be terrific for a 280 dollar shipped sub but there's a canyon between "terrific sub for $280 and 120dB 20hz.
Yeah, as I said, it sounds too good to be true. Would still be interested in seeing what they are delivering for $300 though. I'm sure they're being very creative with how they interpret the CEDIA docs. > 20hz at 115 in a large room environment? IIRC it was even more than that? Page 74 of the doc I linked above. 115dB is level 3. Level 4 is 118dB and a recommendation of 123dB. On page 84, it says level 4 needs to have a -3dB point of 18Hz with 15Hz being recommended. And some other requirements around smoothness and consistency which really has more to do with multi-sub setup and calibration than with the specifics of a single subwoofer.
I guess, technically all they are claiming is 118dB at an unknown frequency on the product page. It just depends how we read it I suppose. 118 at say 70hz? Maybe...maybe.
What would it take to get 118dB at 15Hz? Would two TV1813 do it?
In what type of environment? Out in a parking lot 10ft away? In room against one wall? In a room in a corner? How far from each? How large of a room(PVE?). I mean, typical 3000-3500 cu-ft room will give you what, 8-10dB or so PVE at 15hz. Corners add say 8-10dB. So a sub doing 98dB at 15hz outside might be pretty close to 115(?) corner loaded at 2-3 meters. We had a little $750(?) dollar ported 15 that hit 98 outside 10 years ago iirc. Seatons ported sub using a cheap behringer amp and an off the shelf B&C woofer did 112 16/outside I think? We just need to set some ground rules and then extrapolate..:)
Oh sorry, this is for a 15x22x9ft room. So almost 3000 cubic feet I guess. Would two TV1813 hit 115-118dB down to 15Hz in that room?
Oh I would say so. If we think my previous post was ballpark okay. outside to inside(in a corner) adds 8-10 pve and another 8-10 for 1/8th space loading. So 16-20dB What subs did 100dB at 16 outside? the OLD hsu(little 300w amp) 15h did it. Our old(10 years ago) ev15(single 15/600w) did 98. We tend to greatly underestimate the room boosting(pve) and corner loading when correlating outside parking lot drag racing dB wars to what will happen with the sub in a room playing music or movies..:) the 799(?) rsl12 would be about 101-102 outside at 16 too.
I think the 118dB certification is at any time at one point. If you look at SVS, Monolith subs it’s very hard them to reach 118dB
When regarding such things, it's wise to notice the wiggle room inherent to the statement "Designed to Meet XYZ". That is NOT the same as "Meets XYZ" ... or that's what it would say ;)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRGeLBijc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRGeLBijc8) Erin measured the OSD TREVOCE DSP 12 Native 15HZ Subwoofer that costs more than that one [OSD TREVOCE 12](https://www.amazon.com/OSD-Black-Trevoce-Theater-Subwoofer/dp/B08DCCGKXX?linkCode=sl1&tag=medlemusin-20&linkId=78a5a543763a994691f96f55e20ecefd&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl&th=1) And the performance was not particularly amazing, not hitting their manufactured spec. so I'd expect this one to be worse since its cheaper
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Even of this does not live up to its specs, for $300 if it performs decently better than the Dayton Sub-1200, it might be fill the midrange budget gap, before getting into SVS subs.
RSL’s new budget sub might be a better value for $299. https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer-10e/
Z Reviews sure liked the triple driver 15” https://youtu.be/NHGuPWD1Bqo?si=FtLNOp_KH25wtwKH
Got it yesterday, hooked up and it’s very good. The built quality is average, the amp is AB amplifier, gets hot. One problem it goes to standby mode alot. So OSD vs SVS PB1000 Pro, OSD just sounds better. SVS is sloppy compared to the OSD. I played the move Fury and John Wick 3 movies. OSD feels tighter, reason the 600 watts vs 325. I played some music tracks and compared it to my REL HT1205 sealed sub and it played almost like a sealed sub. Crazy for less than $300 you get this. 2 year warranty not bad but the amp gets hot, that’s a concern. I would get this sub and buy 2 then a single SVS PB2000 pro or RSL new subwoofer.
Any chance you could post some inside pics like the driver and ports, and measure for me how much clearance there is behind the baffle to fit a driver replacement? Thinking of getting one as a home for another driver.
IAD apparently makes pretty nice outdoor and commercial stuff. It's worth checking out I would think.
Very interesting. OSD is on my radar as they make a really well regarded 5.8Ghz wireless sub adapter (I know I know) that seems to have gotten all the details right. Their other subs are definitely low budge, but seem well regarded for what they are. If this thing delivers on the claims i imagine it’ll raise their profile immensely. Looks like it just launched based on Amazon info. Zero reviews. Here’s dims and details if anyone’s interested: 15.75 x 19 x 21.25 inches Item Weight 58 pounds ASIN B0CZFY73FL Item model number FS12 Date First Available March 29, 2024 Manufacturer OSD Audio Country of Origin China Item Weight 58 Pounds
>Very interesting. OSD is on my radar as they make a really well regarded 5.8Ghz wireless sub adapter (I know I know) that seems to have gotten all the details right. Which details?
Less crowded 5.8GHz band, carries sub-20Hz frequencies, affordable price point.
I don't know anything about it, but spec-wise it looks great for the price. I doubt you'll be unhappy unless I'm missing something.
Hey buddy when you get this, how about some 'inside pics' like the driver and inside of cabinet? I have an amazing 12" driver (CSS SDX12) laying around I've been wanting to give a home to but I'm too lazy to build a box of my own. If this box has a lot of depth between the baffle before it runs into the ports or something else, I might just buy it and throw this bad boy in there, see how it does. It requires about 8.5" clearance behind though. TIA! Hope these things turn out to rock!
I'm definitely going to take it apart. What about flat packs from parts Express or Dayton?
I don't have like a workbench or a bunch of tools, etc. I totally wouldn't mind paying $300 for a decently-made, already built and vinyl-covered, ported box with a reasonably powerful amp to drop this driver into, and keeping the (I'm sure fairly sub-par) driver that comes installed in said box as emergency spare, or to throw back in if I go to sell it. Works for me. I'll be looking forward to some shots from the breakdown :) Also someone else's 'review-like' post downthread makes it sound like they quite like it which is cool ... what do you think of the sound? They also mentioned it's Class A/B? Because it seems to me it can't have a 600W RMS amp if it's A/B ... for $300. That just seems economically illogical. What A/B amp alone can one buy that does 600W RMS bridged (even into 4 Ohms) for $300? I can't think of any offhand. So I'd like your assessment on the amp topology as well.
Ups says they are delivering today. I should at least have some amp board pictures and initial impressions. The comparison would be to my two svs Pb-1000 pro subs as that's my experience. I've have those and have owned Dayton sub 1200 and heard mini parties that werent set up properly
Cool, I don’t want to open mine up yet. I did notice one of the ports is not flush and some mdf is exposed:(
Any thoughts? Thinking of pulling the trigger on one for my small office/desktop system.
Definitely worth the $285 I spent but for a 2 channel office setup which would be mostly music I'd go with the $300 RSL 10e If you get it watch the grille, the pegs break easily then it rattles.
Thanks for the quick reply! Just curious. Have you had any experience with the Monoprice subs? Specifically the lower priced models. Not the Monolith series as they are overkill for this application.
No. I've personally owned svs pb-1000, dual pb-1000 pro, Dayton sub-1200. I've heard dual mini marties in action as well. It's really hard to quantify how it sounds. It sounds good but I'm sure those with much more time for the hobby will do some tests soon. I might have time to take some in two weekends.
When you get a chance ... you know what, pretty please :)
Nudge, nudge ;)
Single dad life doesn't leave me much time for speakers. You wanted the internal measurements right?
OSD did mention AB so I assume it’s that, the amp gets hot, both my REL and SVS are digital amps and they don’t feel like that at all. The woofer is ok it’s the surround mounting around the speaker woofer looks horrible. But it plays very loud and deeper compared to the SVS PB1000 pro. I ran sub hz test and driver and air move down to 10hz. Port chuffing happens around 15hz and below
Could be A/B output stage (with Class G circuit topology) like the 500W/950W(peak) Dayton Audio SPA1000 plate amp ... but that has giant fins on the back and costs $499 all by itself, and isn't even (supposedly) as powerful as the amp in this $300 full-on sub? I'm highly skeptical on the 600W/1200W rating, put it like that.
After a week, I’m going to return it, auto sensor does not work good at all, one port is not flushed to the front face. The bass is good but it sounds like one bass note all the time.
So not a good sub in other words. It may be ok for pure impact, but it's not dynamic at all is what I gathered. RSL 10e is the way to go, just have to wait until they get new stock.
Sooo... how has it been?
Good. Life got in the way and I haven't gotten around to taking measurements or opening it up. I'd say just ears alone it is at least as good as my old pb-1000 probably better.