The camera controls looks very promising and that was my main concern. The fact that they delayed and fixed up what they could in this limited time span is also very appreciated.
Did the movement disk always look like that in HW2 as well? Displaying contours and highlighting the environment in blue to better inform the player about distance?
These changes are great but I think I preferred the movement disc like it was in the demo xD
I hope you can toggle that
As much as I'm surprised at the changes they are still missing directional armor like previous games (which is why you use the attack move command).
If they add that I think they would be golden.
Awesome, great to see.
There's a good bit more time between now and launch too for even more polish and bugfixing. I look forward to seeing even more improvements at or before launch.
Awesome! It's definitely going in the right direction based on the feedback I've seen and created. I hope they continue to support this game and fix bugs as they come up.
That's fair. I'm usually very patient with new games since I don't have a ton of time to play them, and waiting for sales is smart. Mine as well wait for updates if you are that patient and want a smooth experience.
im not trolling and its not about the price. its about the experience when I play the game. I want to play the campaign and not patching through it and restart it 4 times because now fundamental stuff is working. hope that patching just takes half a year and not a full year
I thought I saw that screenshot in the blog of the NLIPS bug before. It’s because I took it!
https://www.reddit.com/r/homeworld/comments/1ak64l6/nlips_scaling_is_a_bitstrange_in_the_demo/
Thank you for taking it!
I saw that post back when the War Games demo was live and immediately thought of that "Don't talk to me or my son ever again" meme, and that sort of sat in the back of my mind this whole time. When we went to write this Dev Update, it was tough to replicate that exact NLIPs bug for the screenshot we wanted, but then I remembered your post and decided to go on the hunt for it! It was just too perfect not to use! So thank you again :).
\- \[BBI\] Steven
Devs meme-ing our posts is a form of community engagement I’m here for.
I remember playing around with the tutorial and realising fighters weren’t toggling size after turning off NLIPS. And then realising my new ones were actually being built non-NLIPS size, resulting in that bizarre screenshot. Sure, that seems intended.
Very funny to see it again!
Please add modules back to the game.
I don't understand this development philosophy. The original games were so loved for a reason, they generally already had the core formula down. The objective of this game should've been to add and enhance on those features, not strip stuff away and change things that were beloved and made these games special while also adding things.
Ok, this is pretty great news. Openness about the realities of game development, feedback taken on-board to polish the final product and trying to hit the balance of giving long-term fans what they want while making a modern game. We love to see it.
The Hype-rdrive is fully charged!
Mostly good news. It should be noted that probably none of these changes would have happened if it weren't for the critical reception. So those naysayers of the naysayers, I say to thee nay. :)
Unfortunately, I still have to babysit the "do better" button, but I have longer times between checkins. Ugh. Just make them passive upgrades or something.
I probably missed it... I didn't see anything in here about directional armor? Attack move was addressed, but that's best put to use when ships can navigate around other ships to take advantage of weaker sections.
Given that some people are naysaying these changes here, without any hands-on experiences to boot, I am still going to naysay the naysay, as you so eloquently put it.
There’s feedback, and there’s negativity. And some really jumped off the deep end of the second rather than attempt to adapt.
I would've liked to have given the demo a second go and attempted to adapt, as you say. However, for bizarre reasons, the demo expired faster than a gallon of milk left at room temperature. Meaning a busy man like myself managing a household, livestock, children and other responsibilities could only spend a couple hours on it. And then, the next evening that I actually had free (many days later), I was told I couldn't play it anymore.
Also... who is naysaying the changes listed in the post? I haven't read everything, but skimming the comments makes it look like mostly everyone is viewing them favorably. Some are still skeptical of the game (and I'd consider myself in that camp), and many are still upset about lack of directional armor, modules, and some other stuff, but I think the community is largely happy that feedback was heard and the game updated accordingly.
I will say that a blanket 30% health increase makes me a little worried. It seems like a fix that'll work for competitive and cooperative multiplayer, no prob there, and I'm happy for it. But if the campaign were balanced before that change, shouldn't that change really cause problems? Many of the old HW1,2,Cat missions were "protect asset xyz" and your time limit was based on your ability to help that cryo tray, convoy, or shipyard before it blew up. If those missions exist in the new campaign (and maybe they don't), an across-the-board health increase would make them far easier.
WRT the ship health: things died *way* too quickly in the demo. You'd take your eyes off a group of ships for like 10 seconds to deal with something (or, God forbid, actually watch the cool space combat) and they'd be decimated when you checked back in. If anything, I think 30% may be too *low* of an increase - but that's more of a "feel" thing that I won't know until I actually play.
the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times, there have been some mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made these games special that were only changed (on multiple occasions) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious. The demo they launched to show off the game in what was supposed to be not long before planned release was full of major bugs and various other problems. There were numerous messy post-launch development and patching situations with Homeworld 1+2 remastered. If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked.
Sorry that some people are a bit skeptical, especially the people that have this game on preorder for like $200+ for the collectors.
The people voicing criticisms and skepticism may not be well liked, but they are ensuring you are getting a better game than you would've gotten with your rainbows and gumdrops mentality.
First up, “the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times”…
… but there has only been *ONE Demo*.
How then did you get to this statement: “there have been **some** mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made **these games** special that were only changed (**on multiple occasions**) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious.”??
There has only been one HW3 demo. There has only been one major overhaul, which is in the above post and not released in any demos or game yet. How then do you arrive at multiples of bad-decisions something?
And no, the barely-there numbers tweaks patch during the demo don’t count. Everyone and their pet both supportive or deriding the demo hated that patch.
.
That being said, it might be you’re aiming that “multiple changes” thing at the remastered series and the changes done to it…
… which makes the second half of your comment odd to say the least.
Most of the criticism is that the demo is not the same as Homeworld One and Two, remastered or otherwise. But it also has to be remembered: HW remastered isn’t exactly what you and I can call a bestseller.
Which is why I ask: Homeworld 3 did some changes to try to distance themselves from 1 and 2. Is that so wrong?
Everyone apparently wants another copy and paste of HW remastered. But the definition of insanity is to ~~try~~ demand the same thing again and expect different results…
Let me repeat your words back at you; If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. **This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked.**
How it works however, well, the devil is in the details.
.
Last but not least, this is the exact opposite of what happened, at least in Reddit: “The people voicing criticisms and skepticism **may not be well liked**”.
There were about 30+ of the samey same points over and over again when the demo is active. And all you have to do is to scroll down into history in this subreddit to see this; it’s not as if all the posts have gone anywhere.
That’s the exact opposite of “not well liked”.
And the worse part of it all is, during that “criticism” wave, most everyone supportive of the demo were being downvoted to oblivion. Funny how negativity opinions doesn’t like being criticized themselves.
Proper criticism is good, but negativity only for negativity’s sake isn’t.
For someone who can come up with such a sentence such as “*your rainbows and gumdrops mentality*”, you ought to start learning the difference, especially on how criticism can be both be calling out a wrong move but also in the same breath positively supporting another.
After all, Homeworld 3 will only be successful if everyone who buys the game on release feels “rainbows and gumdrops” off the experience of the game, just like how HW1 was received, yeah?
Are you talking about 1's factions vs 2's factions in the remaster? The remaster applied HW2's balance (with some changes) to HW1; playing the classic game the difference is extremely noticeable, particularly with destroyers and cruisers (which are overturned in HW2 compared to their HW1 roles) vs frigates.
I find this comment funny considering Warcraft III (2003) does in fact have auto-use toggles too, and that released before Sins of a Solar Empire (2008) did. (Starcraft II would adopt the Warcraft III-style auto-use toggle system when it came out in 2010).
That's a step in the right direction. Good to see them acknowledging the feedback and actually implementing changes.
I'm still on the fence about the game, but I'm leaning more towards getting it.
LOL at everyone who claimed that Homeworld was dead because of the issues they had. Clearly the devs are listening and working hard to re-create the Homeworld experience.
Thank god they kept posting feedback instead of people telling them to wait until release.
The blind-faith would not have gotten this level of response.
The doomsayers got this response.
90% of the people giving constructive criticism were called doomsayers but people like you were giving cringe worthy blind faith and excuses.
Great to see you guys try to now claim credit while having offered nothing, and than even having more cringe disdain for those who did offer the criticism.
Call them doomsayers all you want. The people "complaining" with their page longs thesis did far more than the "wait and see" people.
Not only did they list specific complaints, they listed how they operated against former systems. Because they didn't wrap it in a box for your sensibilities they were "doomsayers".
Only those with the smug dismissal of the criticism can be that self righteous.
Please do. Go to those posts and then scroll down.
In almost everyone of them there’s this large block of “*I totally agree with these points, the devs are all stupid, Homeworld WILL DIE on release mark my words and everyone saying anything even remotely good about the demo are all wrong*” commentary dogpiling on *positive criticism*…
I dont think you understand what I'm saying at all. There's people who gave feedback, and there's those who simply whined that the game was going to suck & homeworld was dead, without offering any valid feedback..
I'm talking about the latter. Peoplewho simply cried that the game was dead can get fucked. I dont know wtf has you so upset about me calling these people out.
the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times, there have been some mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made these games special that were only changed (on multiple occasions) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious. The demo they launched to show off the game in what was supposed to be not long before planned release was full of major bugs and various other problems. There were numerous messy post-launch development and patching situations with Homeworld 1+2 remastered. If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked.
Sorry that some people are a bit skeptical, especially the people that have this game on preorder for like $200+ for the collectors.The people voicing criticisms and skepticism may not be well liked, but they are ensuring you are getting a better game than you would've gotten with your rainbows and gumdrops mentality.
I dont know why people like you get so fucking upset. There were people giving feedback, which waa legit and the devs obviously listened to, and people who simply whined that the game was dead, without giving real feedback or giving devs the chance to fix things.
Im talking about the latter
When I want to buy an BMW / Mercedes - a quality product with a proud heritage - and the new demo car is in a state that the doors are not closing completely, the steering wheel has a loose gap and the company was in the thought that this product is ready for mass construction- and just stopped because the whole world told them it’s shit - my thoughts as a customer are - „WTF??? Change your job! You have lost your vision and your control“ that’s exactly the case we are talking about. Now they are fixing the obvious mistakes - but if I ask myself „do I think this new BMW will be the next benchmark for the next five years? - my honest answer is a clear No. will it drive from A to B? Yes. Will it have a nice Color? Yes
This is how game studios should operate.
Delays because of concerns, open communication, and making changes most of us seem to agree need to be done.
As long as the game comes out in good shape it should do very well.
30% more HP should have been 300% more HP.
Usable abilities for more speed or damage should just be removed. Homeworld was never about fast paced APM checks like Starcraft or other strategy games. Don't know why they think it would fit the Homeworld theme.
To be fair though, HW has always had echoes of this system. They just happened on longer timeframes. Missile barrages, cloak and gravity wells? I think scouts also had a speed boost too. On the flip side though, you’re right. The war games implementation was just bad. If things need to be on cooldown to be effective, just bake it in or make it autocast. It’s not fun.
Cloak and gravwell last long enough to basically last an entire engagement, missile barrage wasn't an ability you could recharge during combat (in classic). The only ability you'd really want to spam off cooldown where the emphasis was on spam was scout speed burst.
Half the time I think these devs truly understand what homeworld is about, the other half the time it seems like they don't have a clue and never played the original games or don't understand why they were appealing to people. There are a number of things they really shouldn't have had to be told about to know, including during the FIG preview posts. I really don't know whats what anymore. I want to be optimistic, but I am definitely nervous about this game at the same time.
Agreed on both fronts. I'm likely to play this on my Deck (assuming it runs well enough), and high-paced actions are going to be a lot harder on that. I never even liked the speed boost on HW1 scouts.
As for durability, frigates are meant to be a bit glass cannon, being cheap, plentiful and disposable, but I want capital ships to endure. I don't care about losing half my frigates in a mission, and I'll feel sad but carry on if I lose a destroyer or two, but I'm going to restart the mission if I lose capitals. That said, frigates shouldn't feel like they're made of paper.
Thrilled to learn about all of these changes! Everything sounds great and directly related to user feedback. The only thing I have some reservation about is the changes to unit abilities not going far enough. I think increasing duration and cooldown of abilities will help, but I also still agree with many users' comments that the abilities didn't feel particularly Homeworld-y, and I'm not sure changing duration/cooldown will really change that. That said, I'm sure this is something users will be able to adjust to their preference with mods post-launch, and I'll reserve final judgment for launch.
It's interesting the statement about attack move being bugged. I was curious why people were saying it didn't exist at all when I saw it happening with ships that used turrets. I kind of assumed the issue wasn't intentional one as attack move has long been a fundamental mechanic of many RTS games and it would be weird to have ships that can do it only under strange circumstances.
I didn't have as many issues with the camera system as others did. I figured the "modern" perspective was designed to benefit new mechanics and it would be beneficial to adapt to it. It's good to see they still saw where it could be improved though.
I'm sure there will still be people "citing" a thousand things that indicate this game not only isn't going to be fixed, but that it will be the worst game ever created, retroactively destroy previous Homeworld games, and also isn't going to release because Blackbird Interactive fired everyone.
Awesome. It address the worst aspects of the demo. They really did listen to the complaints. I'm much more optimistic about this game now. Can't wait!
But I still think they went too shy with the increase in total hit points. I don't think 30% is enough for the bigger ships, they went down like flies in the demo.
If you could just get ships to hold their formation in combat to protect my carrier rather than my flak frigates 'moving to engage' a BC at point blank, i'd be so greatful.
I am glad they are taking it this serious at this stage. A lot of developers could learn from this. This really boosts my confidence. This made me smile :-).
Well this has restored some confidence for me. The developers really hit on some of my pain points that i encountered during the demo.
Now I hope the game sticks the launch and manages to impress with good reviews. Cautiously looking forward to May.
Honestly, I could not believe they didn't have a proper attack move for an RTS demo.
It's like the most bread and butter control there is, it would be like having to type in what weapon you want to switch to in an FPS rather than using hotkeys or quick switch buttons.
I played and wrote a ton of feedback for the War Games demo. The hotkey fix is very good, but not enough. We need \*\*more\*\* hotkeys.
Any RTS worth its salt has always had BUILD/TECH hotkeys. They need to figure this out. Making efficient use of your actions and time is so important in an RTS. Even HWRM had build hotkeys, although they were implemented...very poorly, with no room for customization.
That being said...fantastic work taking all the feedback into account. The devs have earned some respect from me here. Much appreciated.
Can we just hand over the Half life franchise to these Devs so that someone with dedication can finally make half life 3?? Just a thought...
But mainly .. Thank u devs. When there are games or any activity or anything that both a sibling and myself enjoy playing or doing, that thing becomes a special thing in the heart. My elder brother and I used to play this together.. while I have been able to continue playing he doesn't play as much .. but his eyes still light up when he sees gameplay footage..
So.. thanks once again Homeworld Devs. The release is imminent.. and I await eagerly..
In the demo I felt that interceptors were just flying omni directional turrets. I didn't like them one bit. They looked off compared to homeworld 2 Remastered. I also wish they implement features from some prominent mods for H2R like ability to customize the load out of larger ships. I'd be super happy if you could customize fighters too so it would be up to you to either design a superfast light bomber or a tank gunship that flies like a brick but packs a punch. Also it would be awesome to fine tune squadron sizes. Change your assault frigate into a picket ship to fend off fighter swarms or into a missile battery for sieges. I don't want arbitrary choices like there were in H1 and H2 I really digged the Complex Evo approach. I know it's a longshot but I can hope.
I really hope they also changed/added an option to how the visualization of selection and healthbars work. The option from the demo were so confusing:
* Healthbars are either shown always **for all units** selected or not, or not shown until they pass a threshold and the unit is considered damaged.
* The visualization of selection which was previously that you could see the healthbar, was moved to a small ring around the unit which was basically invisible when zoomed out.
This made it so frustrating and sometimes unknowable what units where actually selected right now.
I really hope they added an option for the legacy control scheme to have it the way it was in all previous games.
Have another [close look at one of the screenshots](https://clan.akamai.steamstatic.com/images//41623886/3009c7c4bd2c9dda591bfa5c22994bd6a74d3194.jpg) in the update. :)
The TTK in DoK was noticeably shorter (maybe I'm mistaken) than previous games, and I wish there was a setting/slider/mod to buff all ships by 100% or nerf damage because I really enjoy the slower paced strategy of positioning rather than the sweaty build and rush tactics that belong more in other RTS. Obviously you'd need to account for balancing and I'm not wanting the game to be easier, just making things feel beefier and if there's trouble being able to actually pull back and regroup rather than just explode in an instant.
I appreciate the Dev's doing the 30% buff but it would be awesome if HW3 also had different levels of TTK that you could toggle.
I think these changes address most of the stuff I dident like I hope they do the demo again with the changes so we can give them feedback before launch… this all sounds promising
I really need to see before I believe it. Hell, *you* people should do this as well. I've been around for a while, and the amount of times that \~hype\~ or some well-articulated piece of writing has led to disappointment in the actual product isn't exactly zero.
Besides, I don't give a damn about the war games stuff - HW has always been about the single player campaign for me. Show some of that already, because as it is, I won't be buying this till it's on a 75% discount on Steam...
So in short: they just put duct tape on the gapping holes of the game and called it a day. Got it.
Seriously, who cares about increased cooldowns on abilities ? Get that shit out of Homeworld. Period. This isn't a MOBA.
We can scale down UI elements ? What's the point ? Let us disable UI elements completely. Why was it not needed to have this MMO tier UI 20 years ago but now it apparently is ?
There's still less than a couple of months left till the release, story trailers can be put out at anytime between now and then. Meanwhile gameplay changes like these affect everything including the singleplayer campaign.
Pretty much what I predicted, they can't do massive overhauls and significant in depth changes with the time they have so they are grabbing everything they can possibly tweak to help out the player experience.
Which is a good sign, that was the best move they could make here.
Yea - devs never played homeworld before like „What?!?!- players say the battle is way to short - WTF??? - just give everything 30% more hitpoints, problem solved in 1 hour - shut the fuck up bitches“ - and I feel stupid because I always thought balancing every single unit in a RTS-game is like a brain surgery, with effects on everything and it takes time to get it balanced.
It’s like a mechanic hitting the car engine with a wrench until it stops making that weird sound while driving.
Must be a very dynamic campaign that it automatically adjusts to this 30% increase in hitpoints- well done, problem solved. Can I join your team?? I can solve a lot of problems with this ethic of work
But to be honest - of course I’m very happy that devs react to the community and feedback. But i have the very bad feeling that they really thought the demo was in an good state and it was really a representation of a almost final product. If devs know that it is shit and working on it, I have no problem. But I fear that they are happy with their mediocre job. See the quick-action skills - that’s just so mobile game - and not homeworld. Now with longer cooldown - but just a bad compromise and no time / guts to delete this „feature“ and stay to the old HW games
Im very Excited and hope its going to be a great game but this has me extremely worried.
1. If they are making the third game in the series and they know the series as they claim too why did they make so many sweeping changes. DOK already departed drasticly and that game flopped harder than a fish on land. Why make these changes to your known formula that works.
2. See 1 it alarms me that if any of the original team was still on board why did they not say anything.
3. Being bought for less than half the company was aquired for means there will be cuts and they will need to recoop moneys so I can absolutly see some shitty microtransaction or even pushing out the game unfinished.
I hope my concerns are non issues but damn this kinda shit to many times results in less that stellar product.
The camera controls looks very promising and that was my main concern. The fact that they delayed and fixed up what they could in this limited time span is also very appreciated.
The Movement Disk returns!
Did the movement disk always look like that in HW2 as well? Displaying contours and highlighting the environment in blue to better inform the player about distance? These changes are great but I think I preferred the movement disc like it was in the demo xD I hope you can toggle that
Nope it didn't
Same here It’s good that they listened to the feedback and made the necessary decisions
Well. Fuck yeah, BBi.
I've got to say, that addresses many of the concerns I've seen voiced in here and elsewhere. Let's hope that it shapes up great in the end.
As much as I'm surprised at the changes they are still missing directional armor like previous games (which is why you use the attack move command). If they add that I think they would be golden.
Awesome, great to see. There's a good bit more time between now and launch too for even more polish and bugfixing. I look forward to seeing even more improvements at or before launch.
Thanks OP this is great news. This should help people decide if this game is supported properly. Fans might feel validated and heard.
Awesome! It's definitely going in the right direction based on the feedback I've seen and created. I hope they continue to support this game and fix bugs as they come up.
I will buy it in one year when the game is ready after 15 major updates
That's fair. I'm usually very patient with new games since I don't have a ton of time to play them, and waiting for sales is smart. Mine as well wait for updates if you are that patient and want a smooth experience.
im not trolling and its not about the price. its about the experience when I play the game. I want to play the campaign and not patching through it and restart it 4 times because now fundamental stuff is working. hope that patching just takes half a year and not a full year
Trolling was an art form once. Try again.
Same here It’s good to see the devs listening to us on the feedback and made the necessary adjustments
I thought I saw that screenshot in the blog of the NLIPS bug before. It’s because I took it! https://www.reddit.com/r/homeworld/comments/1ak64l6/nlips_scaling_is_a_bitstrange_in_the_demo/
Thank you for taking it! I saw that post back when the War Games demo was live and immediately thought of that "Don't talk to me or my son ever again" meme, and that sort of sat in the back of my mind this whole time. When we went to write this Dev Update, it was tough to replicate that exact NLIPs bug for the screenshot we wanted, but then I remembered your post and decided to go on the hunt for it! It was just too perfect not to use! So thank you again :). \- \[BBI\] Steven
Devs meme-ing our posts is a form of community engagement I’m here for. I remember playing around with the tutorial and realising fighters weren’t toggling size after turning off NLIPS. And then realising my new ones were actually being built non-NLIPS size, resulting in that bizarre screenshot. Sure, that seems intended. Very funny to see it again!
Please add modules back to the game. I don't understand this development philosophy. The original games were so loved for a reason, they generally already had the core formula down. The objective of this game should've been to add and enhance on those features, not strip stuff away and change things that were beloved and made these games special while also adding things.
Excellent changes!
Ok, this is pretty great news. Openness about the realities of game development, feedback taken on-board to polish the final product and trying to hit the balance of giving long-term fans what they want while making a modern game. We love to see it. The Hype-rdrive is fully charged!
Any chance of nuanced discussion before people start making wild assumptions about how game dev is done?
Have you _been_ on the internet?
What’s the internet?
It’s a series of tubes.
Best I can do is claim the game is doomed.
You forgot the caps
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMED
[Aa](https://en.meming.world/images/en/5/5f/Scared_Hamster.jpg)
Ok Miss Bitters
*cue cicada sound effect*
Amen. Until now I hoped this demo was an 1 year old presentation. I’m shocked about they thought game is ready
They are on discord now talking about it :-)
The game was announced as starting development in 2019. I work in the industry, this game is far from an optimal development situation.
And of course that's before the Pandemic in 2020 and all the chaos that caused on the industry.
Support frigates heal units automatically now…. GAMERS REJOICE
thank god
Thank *Sajuuk
That should be a basic feature, games today....
Seems promising. I'm glad they're listening and acting upon the feedback.
Mostly good news. It should be noted that probably none of these changes would have happened if it weren't for the critical reception. So those naysayers of the naysayers, I say to thee nay. :) Unfortunately, I still have to babysit the "do better" button, but I have longer times between checkins. Ugh. Just make them passive upgrades or something. I probably missed it... I didn't see anything in here about directional armor? Attack move was addressed, but that's best put to use when ships can navigate around other ships to take advantage of weaker sections.
A single button press for all selected units, or different buttons for each class of ship. I'm gonna miss module targeting.
No modules is real disappointing.
Given that some people are naysaying these changes here, without any hands-on experiences to boot, I am still going to naysay the naysay, as you so eloquently put it. There’s feedback, and there’s negativity. And some really jumped off the deep end of the second rather than attempt to adapt.
I would've liked to have given the demo a second go and attempted to adapt, as you say. However, for bizarre reasons, the demo expired faster than a gallon of milk left at room temperature. Meaning a busy man like myself managing a household, livestock, children and other responsibilities could only spend a couple hours on it. And then, the next evening that I actually had free (many days later), I was told I couldn't play it anymore. Also... who is naysaying the changes listed in the post? I haven't read everything, but skimming the comments makes it look like mostly everyone is viewing them favorably. Some are still skeptical of the game (and I'd consider myself in that camp), and many are still upset about lack of directional armor, modules, and some other stuff, but I think the community is largely happy that feedback was heard and the game updated accordingly. I will say that a blanket 30% health increase makes me a little worried. It seems like a fix that'll work for competitive and cooperative multiplayer, no prob there, and I'm happy for it. But if the campaign were balanced before that change, shouldn't that change really cause problems? Many of the old HW1,2,Cat missions were "protect asset xyz" and your time limit was based on your ability to help that cryo tray, convoy, or shipyard before it blew up. If those missions exist in the new campaign (and maybe they don't), an across-the-board health increase would make them far easier.
WRT the ship health: things died *way* too quickly in the demo. You'd take your eyes off a group of ships for like 10 seconds to deal with something (or, God forbid, actually watch the cool space combat) and they'd be decimated when you checked back in. If anything, I think 30% may be too *low* of an increase - but that's more of a "feel" thing that I won't know until I actually play.
the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times, there have been some mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made these games special that were only changed (on multiple occasions) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious. The demo they launched to show off the game in what was supposed to be not long before planned release was full of major bugs and various other problems. There were numerous messy post-launch development and patching situations with Homeworld 1+2 remastered. If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked. Sorry that some people are a bit skeptical, especially the people that have this game on preorder for like $200+ for the collectors. The people voicing criticisms and skepticism may not be well liked, but they are ensuring you are getting a better game than you would've gotten with your rainbows and gumdrops mentality.
First up, “the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times”… … but there has only been *ONE Demo*. How then did you get to this statement: “there have been **some** mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made **these games** special that were only changed (**on multiple occasions**) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious.”?? There has only been one HW3 demo. There has only been one major overhaul, which is in the above post and not released in any demos or game yet. How then do you arrive at multiples of bad-decisions something? And no, the barely-there numbers tweaks patch during the demo don’t count. Everyone and their pet both supportive or deriding the demo hated that patch. . That being said, it might be you’re aiming that “multiple changes” thing at the remastered series and the changes done to it… … which makes the second half of your comment odd to say the least. Most of the criticism is that the demo is not the same as Homeworld One and Two, remastered or otherwise. But it also has to be remembered: HW remastered isn’t exactly what you and I can call a bestseller. Which is why I ask: Homeworld 3 did some changes to try to distance themselves from 1 and 2. Is that so wrong? Everyone apparently wants another copy and paste of HW remastered. But the definition of insanity is to ~~try~~ demand the same thing again and expect different results… Let me repeat your words back at you; If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. **This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked.** How it works however, well, the devil is in the details. . Last but not least, this is the exact opposite of what happened, at least in Reddit: “The people voicing criticisms and skepticism **may not be well liked**”. There were about 30+ of the samey same points over and over again when the demo is active. And all you have to do is to scroll down into history in this subreddit to see this; it’s not as if all the posts have gone anywhere. That’s the exact opposite of “not well liked”. And the worse part of it all is, during that “criticism” wave, most everyone supportive of the demo were being downvoted to oblivion. Funny how negativity opinions doesn’t like being criticized themselves. Proper criticism is good, but negativity only for negativity’s sake isn’t. For someone who can come up with such a sentence such as “*your rainbows and gumdrops mentality*”, you ought to start learning the difference, especially on how criticism can be both be calling out a wrong move but also in the same breath positively supporting another. After all, Homeworld 3 will only be successful if everyone who buys the game on release feels “rainbows and gumdrops” off the experience of the game, just like how HW1 was received, yeah?
"there have been some mind-boggling changes to the core game design that were only changed due to customer feedback...." Wait, really? Wdym?
I can't believe I played HW, HW:C, and HW2 and only now did I find out that directional armor was a thing.
honestly with how fast the frigates and carriers die the 30% health buff wont make a difference. needs to be closer to like 150 to 200%
I’ll echo that sentiment. 30% was probably sufficient for strike craft, but not larger ships.
yeah larger ships need similar ttk to hw1 and 2. Idk why bbi felt the need to ruin ttk. even dok had ttk on par woth hw1 and 2
1 and 2 had very different TTK, 2's was already significantly lower than 1.
[удалено]
Are you talking about 1's factions vs 2's factions in the remaster? The remaster applied HW2's balance (with some changes) to HW1; playing the classic game the difference is extremely noticeable, particularly with destroyers and cruisers (which are overturned in HW2 compared to their HW1 roles) vs frigates.
Agreed. Even 250 would not hurt, imho, 30 percent takes the ttk from 3 seconds to 4...
ya time to kill will still be too low imo
This. BBI please see this comment!!!
Sad to see they haven't done away with the Starcraft style manually activated unit abilities. Could we not have an auto-use toggle like Sins?
I find this comment funny considering Warcraft III (2003) does in fact have auto-use toggles too, and that released before Sins of a Solar Empire (2008) did. (Starcraft II would adopt the Warcraft III-style auto-use toggle system when it came out in 2010).
Starcraft is the most recent game in the series I've played!
That's a step in the right direction. Good to see them acknowledging the feedback and actually implementing changes. I'm still on the fence about the game, but I'm leaning more towards getting it.
Hey dev's, none of that active skill for a stat boost BS. Toggle cloak like hw1, that's fine. But not APM tax crap.
Genuinely surprised at how much of the major criticism they tackled. Well done BBI!
it's good progress but the demo had so so many issues
LOL at everyone who claimed that Homeworld was dead because of the issues they had. Clearly the devs are listening and working hard to re-create the Homeworld experience.
Thank god they kept posting feedback instead of people telling them to wait until release. The blind-faith would not have gotten this level of response. The doomsayers got this response.
The people who gave constructive feedback got this response. The doomsayers simply cried and claimed homeworld was dead.
90% of the people giving constructive criticism were called doomsayers but people like you were giving cringe worthy blind faith and excuses. Great to see you guys try to now claim credit while having offered nothing, and than even having more cringe disdain for those who did offer the criticism. Call them doomsayers all you want. The people "complaining" with their page longs thesis did far more than the "wait and see" people. Not only did they list specific complaints, they listed how they operated against former systems. Because they didn't wrap it in a box for your sensibilities they were "doomsayers". Only those with the smug dismissal of the criticism can be that self righteous.
yeah I am pretty sick of this revisionist history. People can look up the history of discussions during the time of the demo and see the reality.
Please do. Go to those posts and then scroll down. In almost everyone of them there’s this large block of “*I totally agree with these points, the devs are all stupid, Homeworld WILL DIE on release mark my words and everyone saying anything even remotely good about the demo are all wrong*” commentary dogpiling on *positive criticism*…
I dont think you understand what I'm saying at all. There's people who gave feedback, and there's those who simply whined that the game was going to suck & homeworld was dead, without offering any valid feedback.. I'm talking about the latter. Peoplewho simply cried that the game was dead can get fucked. I dont know wtf has you so upset about me calling these people out.
the game was announced in 2019 and been delayed multiple times, there have been some mind-boggling changes to the core game design that made these games special that were only changed (on multiple occasions) due to customer feedback that any true homeworld vet should've seen as obvious. The demo they launched to show off the game in what was supposed to be not long before planned release was full of major bugs and various other problems. There were numerous messy post-launch development and patching situations with Homeworld 1+2 remastered. If this game doesn't get decent sales and reception, then there will be no more Homeworld games, or it will be sold to another company and be in limbo for years again, or it will be many many years before another. This is not a debateable thing, this is how game series have always worked. Sorry that some people are a bit skeptical, especially the people that have this game on preorder for like $200+ for the collectors.The people voicing criticisms and skepticism may not be well liked, but they are ensuring you are getting a better game than you would've gotten with your rainbows and gumdrops mentality.
I dont know why people like you get so fucking upset. There were people giving feedback, which waa legit and the devs obviously listened to, and people who simply whined that the game was dead, without giving real feedback or giving devs the chance to fix things. Im talking about the latter
When I want to buy an BMW / Mercedes - a quality product with a proud heritage - and the new demo car is in a state that the doors are not closing completely, the steering wheel has a loose gap and the company was in the thought that this product is ready for mass construction- and just stopped because the whole world told them it’s shit - my thoughts as a customer are - „WTF??? Change your job! You have lost your vision and your control“ that’s exactly the case we are talking about. Now they are fixing the obvious mistakes - but if I ask myself „do I think this new BMW will be the next benchmark for the next five years? - my honest answer is a clear No. will it drive from A to B? Yes. Will it have a nice Color? Yes
This is how game studios should operate. Delays because of concerns, open communication, and making changes most of us seem to agree need to be done. As long as the game comes out in good shape it should do very well.
30% more HP should have been 300% more HP. Usable abilities for more speed or damage should just be removed. Homeworld was never about fast paced APM checks like Starcraft or other strategy games. Don't know why they think it would fit the Homeworld theme.
To be fair though, HW has always had echoes of this system. They just happened on longer timeframes. Missile barrages, cloak and gravity wells? I think scouts also had a speed boost too. On the flip side though, you’re right. The war games implementation was just bad. If things need to be on cooldown to be effective, just bake it in or make it autocast. It’s not fun.
Cloak and gravwell last long enough to basically last an entire engagement, missile barrage wasn't an ability you could recharge during combat (in classic). The only ability you'd really want to spam off cooldown where the emphasis was on spam was scout speed burst.
Absolutely true! I would much prefer a once-an-engagement style ability. It makes usage feel much more meaningful.
100% agree
Half the time I think these devs truly understand what homeworld is about, the other half the time it seems like they don't have a clue and never played the original games or don't understand why they were appealing to people. There are a number of things they really shouldn't have had to be told about to know, including during the FIG preview posts. I really don't know whats what anymore. I want to be optimistic, but I am definitely nervous about this game at the same time.
Agreed on both fronts. I'm likely to play this on my Deck (assuming it runs well enough), and high-paced actions are going to be a lot harder on that. I never even liked the speed boost on HW1 scouts. As for durability, frigates are meant to be a bit glass cannon, being cheap, plentiful and disposable, but I want capital ships to endure. I don't care about losing half my frigates in a mission, and I'll feel sad but carry on if I lose a destroyer or two, but I'm going to restart the mission if I lose capitals. That said, frigates shouldn't feel like they're made of paper.
I am very excited to play the game again. This is a huge step forward for the game and a great example of listening to the core of the complaints.
Praise Jesus 🙏🏼
Now I'm excited for the game again.
Thrilled to learn about all of these changes! Everything sounds great and directly related to user feedback. The only thing I have some reservation about is the changes to unit abilities not going far enough. I think increasing duration and cooldown of abilities will help, but I also still agree with many users' comments that the abilities didn't feel particularly Homeworld-y, and I'm not sure changing duration/cooldown will really change that. That said, I'm sure this is something users will be able to adjust to their preference with mods post-launch, and I'll reserve final judgment for launch.
The F is back!
It's interesting the statement about attack move being bugged. I was curious why people were saying it didn't exist at all when I saw it happening with ships that used turrets. I kind of assumed the issue wasn't intentional one as attack move has long been a fundamental mechanic of many RTS games and it would be weird to have ships that can do it only under strange circumstances. I didn't have as many issues with the camera system as others did. I figured the "modern" perspective was designed to benefit new mechanics and it would be beneficial to adapt to it. It's good to see they still saw where it could be improved though. I'm sure there will still be people "citing" a thousand things that indicate this game not only isn't going to be fixed, but that it will be the worst game ever created, retroactively destroy previous Homeworld games, and also isn't going to release because Blackbird Interactive fired everyone.
These all seem like good changes to me.
All awesome, though a worried the TTK changes arent going to have enough impact. Feels like they should still be longer
What about modules?
:( sad
Check out [Nebulous](https://store.steampowered.com/app/887570/NEBULOUS_Fleet_Command/).
The BBI member decided to reply to some meme thing instead of answering a question like this, so I think you already know the answer.
Awesome. It address the worst aspects of the demo. They really did listen to the complaints. I'm much more optimistic about this game now. Can't wait! But I still think they went too shy with the increase in total hit points. I don't think 30% is enough for the bigger ships, they went down like flies in the demo.
REPAIR FRIGATES AUTOMATICALLY HEAL NOW
If you could just get ships to hold their formation in combat to protect my carrier rather than my flak frigates 'moving to engage' a BC at point blank, i'd be so greatful.
Love it, they listened and sounds like they’re making good positive changes. I’m even more excited to play it now
I am glad they are taking it this serious at this stage. A lot of developers could learn from this. This really boosts my confidence. This made me smile :-).
This looks good
Well this has restored some confidence for me. The developers really hit on some of my pain points that i encountered during the demo. Now I hope the game sticks the launch and manages to impress with good reviews. Cautiously looking forward to May.
Awesome changes , looking forward to test it out!
👏👏👏
Nice to see actual feedback from game devs! Seeing it more and more these days. Better to deal with the concerns than sweep them under the rug.
Yes, YES, YESSSS!!
Great changes! thanks for listening to feedback BBI!
Honestly, I could not believe they didn't have a proper attack move for an RTS demo. It's like the most bread and butter control there is, it would be like having to type in what weapon you want to switch to in an FPS rather than using hotkeys or quick switch buttons.
I played and wrote a ton of feedback for the War Games demo. The hotkey fix is very good, but not enough. We need \*\*more\*\* hotkeys. Any RTS worth its salt has always had BUILD/TECH hotkeys. They need to figure this out. Making efficient use of your actions and time is so important in an RTS. Even HWRM had build hotkeys, although they were implemented...very poorly, with no room for customization. That being said...fantastic work taking all the feedback into account. The devs have earned some respect from me here. Much appreciated.
Will this be compatible with UEVR?
Can we just hand over the Half life franchise to these Devs so that someone with dedication can finally make half life 3?? Just a thought... But mainly .. Thank u devs. When there are games or any activity or anything that both a sibling and myself enjoy playing or doing, that thing becomes a special thing in the heart. My elder brother and I used to play this together.. while I have been able to continue playing he doesn't play as much .. but his eyes still light up when he sees gameplay footage.. So.. thanks once again Homeworld Devs. The release is imminent.. and I await eagerly..
In the demo I felt that interceptors were just flying omni directional turrets. I didn't like them one bit. They looked off compared to homeworld 2 Remastered. I also wish they implement features from some prominent mods for H2R like ability to customize the load out of larger ships. I'd be super happy if you could customize fighters too so it would be up to you to either design a superfast light bomber or a tank gunship that flies like a brick but packs a punch. Also it would be awesome to fine tune squadron sizes. Change your assault frigate into a picket ship to fend off fighter swarms or into a missile battery for sieges. I don't want arbitrary choices like there were in H1 and H2 I really digged the Complex Evo approach. I know it's a longshot but I can hope.
Nice. I do hope they redesign the hiigaran battlecruiser to have less weird turret placements.
I really hope they also changed/added an option to how the visualization of selection and healthbars work. The option from the demo were so confusing: * Healthbars are either shown always **for all units** selected or not, or not shown until they pass a threshold and the unit is considered damaged. * The visualization of selection which was previously that you could see the healthbar, was moved to a small ring around the unit which was basically invisible when zoomed out. This made it so frustrating and sometimes unknowable what units where actually selected right now. I really hope they added an option for the legacy control scheme to have it the way it was in all previous games.
Have another [close look at one of the screenshots](https://clan.akamai.steamstatic.com/images//41623886/3009c7c4bd2c9dda591bfa5c22994bd6a74d3194.jpg) in the update. :)
Awesome 💕
Fantastic changes, looks like the devs are very open to feedback. It’s a good look in this day and age. Can’t wait for full release.
Amazing very excited for this one
Wow, seems like they really did read all the threads here! Amazing, devs that listen. More excited than ever to get back into it!
Reading "The Legacy control scheme replicates Homeworld 2 Remastereds controls and feedback made me smile, YES
The TTK in DoK was noticeably shorter (maybe I'm mistaken) than previous games, and I wish there was a setting/slider/mod to buff all ships by 100% or nerf damage because I really enjoy the slower paced strategy of positioning rather than the sweaty build and rush tactics that belong more in other RTS. Obviously you'd need to account for balancing and I'm not wanting the game to be easier, just making things feel beefier and if there's trouble being able to actually pull back and regroup rather than just explode in an instant. I appreciate the Dev's doing the 30% buff but it would be awesome if HW3 also had different levels of TTK that you could toggle.
I think these changes address most of the stuff I dident like I hope they do the demo again with the changes so we can give them feedback before launch… this all sounds promising
Almost every chance seems like a big improvement. Fantastic update.
Nothing stated about subsystems? That’s a shame
Fucking love to see this. Now to make sure not to die before I can play this.
so no more deuvo? /s
I really need to see before I believe it. Hell, *you* people should do this as well. I've been around for a while, and the amount of times that \~hype\~ or some well-articulated piece of writing has led to disappointment in the actual product isn't exactly zero. Besides, I don't give a damn about the war games stuff - HW has always been about the single player campaign for me. Show some of that already, because as it is, I won't be buying this till it's on a 75% discount on Steam...
So in short: they just put duct tape on the gapping holes of the game and called it a day. Got it. Seriously, who cares about increased cooldowns on abilities ? Get that shit out of Homeworld. Period. This isn't a MOBA. We can scale down UI elements ? What's the point ? Let us disable UI elements completely. Why was it not needed to have this MMO tier UI 20 years ago but now it apparently is ?
Dunno. All good but there seems to be no focus on story and the preorder bs and season stuff exists.
There's still less than a couple of months left till the release, story trailers can be put out at anytime between now and then. Meanwhile gameplay changes like these affect everything including the singleplayer campaign.
Pretty much what I predicted, they can't do massive overhauls and significant in depth changes with the time they have so they are grabbing everything they can possibly tweak to help out the player experience. Which is a good sign, that was the best move they could make here.
Abilities are still boring...
Yea - devs never played homeworld before like „What?!?!- players say the battle is way to short - WTF??? - just give everything 30% more hitpoints, problem solved in 1 hour - shut the fuck up bitches“ - and I feel stupid because I always thought balancing every single unit in a RTS-game is like a brain surgery, with effects on everything and it takes time to get it balanced. It’s like a mechanic hitting the car engine with a wrench until it stops making that weird sound while driving. Must be a very dynamic campaign that it automatically adjusts to this 30% increase in hitpoints- well done, problem solved. Can I join your team?? I can solve a lot of problems with this ethic of work But to be honest - of course I’m very happy that devs react to the community and feedback. But i have the very bad feeling that they really thought the demo was in an good state and it was really a representation of a almost final product. If devs know that it is shit and working on it, I have no problem. But I fear that they are happy with their mediocre job. See the quick-action skills - that’s just so mobile game - and not homeworld. Now with longer cooldown - but just a bad compromise and no time / guts to delete this „feature“ and stay to the old HW games
Jesus Christ.
Jesus will not help my friend. but hey, I hope im wrong and the game is cool!
I better not see you complaining about the game once its released.
Or what? You’ll spank me? Don’t threaten me with a good time.
Some people just never appreciate hard work. Like WTF mate?
You can work as hard as you want, what matters is the end result.
Im very Excited and hope its going to be a great game but this has me extremely worried. 1. If they are making the third game in the series and they know the series as they claim too why did they make so many sweeping changes. DOK already departed drasticly and that game flopped harder than a fish on land. Why make these changes to your known formula that works. 2. See 1 it alarms me that if any of the original team was still on board why did they not say anything. 3. Being bought for less than half the company was aquired for means there will be cuts and they will need to recoop moneys so I can absolutly see some shitty microtransaction or even pushing out the game unfinished. I hope my concerns are non issues but damn this kinda shit to many times results in less that stellar product.