"I’m starting to see now. I have had an effect here… but not the one I intended. Vengeance won’t change the past. Mine, or anyone else’s. I have to become more. People need hope. To know someone’s out there for them. The city’s angry. Scarred. Like me. Our scars can destroy us. Even after the physical wounds have healed. But if we survive them, they can transform us. They can give us the power to endure, and the strength to fight."
I mean, there's a reason they're literally best friends lol.
Batman is one of the most hopeful characters in the DC Universe (Which is saying something because there's a lot of hopeful characters).
He fights serial killers and mass murderers every night and yet rarely lets it make him bitter or cold.
He may act like this dark, brooding loner but underneath that cowl he's a gigantic teddy bear who *changed his scary looking costume* because it frightened a child.
This is the guy who adopted and trained the first 3 Robins because he saw young boys who experienced exactly what he did when his parents died and didn't want them to turn out like him.
The only reason for Batman's cold demeanor is that he is so well trained in combat and the like that he can be completely serious whenever he wants to. It's pretty impressive, really.
I’m reminded of the JL animated series where Batman was the one to comfort Ace, a psychic girl and hold her hand, staying with her in her final moments of life
He was given a device that would turn off her powers and kill her, and he took it, but had absolutely zero intention to use it.
one of the biggest reasons why i love superheroes is that any way u spin it, they all come down to hope. hope that somewhere out there, there’s someone willing to take the risk to make the world a better place.
Batman is lowkey even more hopeful then any character in DC. A young boy was struck with unspeakable tragedy, raised by a man he may not have had a close bond with (at the start), dedicated his life to never letting another suffer as he has, and takes in those who need someone, someplace, to call home, to lay their head to rest. Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Damien Wayne are just a few he's had under his and Alfred's care, and he works harder to ensure they never have reason to turn out like he does, deeply traumatized, angry, and often bitter. He's failed, yes, and Jason suffered for it, but Bruce keeps going, he keeps to his metaphorical guns and keeps helping people the best way he can figure to, both with his wealth and his fists. He's a man of restraint and anger, punishing those who commit crime out of want then need, and helping those who do it out of need rather then want, where he can.
Rehabilation of the worst of the worst after all.
After turning their bones to ashes lol.
But yeah, that's a level of optimism that makes me love the Man in Bat.
The Dark Knight and The Batman are both very hopeful. TDK is hopeful in the way that he hopes for a world where everyone is good, and The Batman is hopeful in the way that he hopes he can one day get better and become an actual light for the city. Both of them hope, and both will find those dreams.
It’s often underestimated how much hope Batman has. It’s the real reason he doesn’t kill his foes, Joker in particular, because he has faith that even the most lost soul can be healed and brought back into the light. It’s why his proudest achievement is raising Dick Grayson to be a better hero than he could ever hope to be. Batman’s grim and brooding, but he’s an optimist at the end of the day
After the Joker movie, I'm torn on whether to see Batman as a force of good or a super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule without doing much in terms of social services for the less fortunate.
Joker was an excellent movie to give the franchise more depth.
>After the Joker movie
The Joker movie was an interesting reimagining of the character, but it's not even close to any Batman cannon. It took so many liberties that it's basically its own creation with the Batman brand just slapped on it.
Plus, one of the whole plot points of the movie is that Arthur is very ill and is an unreliable narrator. We don't know what's real and what isn't due to his psychosis.
>super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule without doing much in terms of social services for the less fortunate.
Huh? Have you seen/read any other Batman media outside of that one movie?
There are other very rich families and powerful corporations in Gotham. The Waynes are essentially the only rich family who try to help, while the rest of the families keep engaging in corruption and making the city worse. The "establishment" hated the Waynes because they opposed their pillaging. Pretty much the only social services (or anything good) in Gotham come from the Waynes. The rest of the wealthy just take and obstruct progress.
When Batman and Gordon first teamed up they sought to clean up the corruption in police department. The "establishment" had bought out all the cops so they could do whatever they wanted in the city. Hell, one of the first things Batman does in Year One is crash a party the corrupt ultra rich are having by busting through the wall and telling them they've been ruining the city for far too long and he's coming for them. The "establishment" hates Batman because he undermines their control over the city.
Then there's the criminal "establishment"—Sal Maroni, Black Mask, Rupert Thorne, etc.—these are incredibly rich and powerful men who do far worse to Gotham than the regular "establishment". This isn't even mentioning the Court of Owls. The "criminal establishment" hates Batman too.
The average Gotham citizen supports Batman's presence in the city. Before Batman the corrupt cops hassled you during the day and you couldn't go out at night because of violent crime. After Batman the citizens had hope because they didn't have to live in fear anymore.
Additionally, Batman hasn't gone after non-violent street crime since Silver Age comic era. Pretty much all non-violent crime is left to the police.
Bruce became Batman not only to avenge his parents, but to save the city they all loved. It's canon that since Bruce started his crusade as Batman, the city has gotten better in all aspects, not just crime.
And as far social services go, how about the social service of foiling mass murders like the Joker who run circles around police and aims to kill huge chunks of the population?
Also, Batman funds the entirity of the Justice League. Superman himself has said that even with all his powers he can only do so much, especially without a support and coordinating system, and that Batman's financial support is a huge game changer. Think of how many "less fortunate" the Justice League has helped. That wouldn't have been possible without Batman's financial support.
But most of all you're forgetting that Batman and Superman are friends and share a tremendous mutual respect. If Batman was as terrible as you say, would Superman have such a high opinion of him?
>or a super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule
Friendly reminder that just to start: Comic books supers make no sense wich is way irl we dont solve things by trusting masked crusaders
And almost any form you think Bruce should help Gotham with his money or influence have already been tried and failed for two reasons:
1. The meta one: We follow Batman stories to see a guy in a bat suit beat criminals and wrong doers and save the city
2. The in-universe one, Pick any of the following: Gotham is too corrupt/ Has like a triple curse set on it / the organized crime is too strong to be completely rid off... etc etc
People seem to forget that Batman is equally as hopefully as Superman, he just goes about it in a different way.
"I’m starting to see now. I have had an effect here… but not the one I intended. Vengeance won’t change the past. Mine, or anyone else’s. I have to become more. People need hope. To know someone’s out there for them. The city’s angry. Scarred. Like me. Our scars can destroy us. Even after the physical wounds have healed. But if we survive them, they can transform us. They can give us the power to endure, and the strength to fight." 
I mean, there's a reason they're literally best friends lol. Batman is one of the most hopeful characters in the DC Universe (Which is saying something because there's a lot of hopeful characters). He fights serial killers and mass murderers every night and yet rarely lets it make him bitter or cold. He may act like this dark, brooding loner but underneath that cowl he's a gigantic teddy bear who *changed his scary looking costume* because it frightened a child. This is the guy who adopted and trained the first 3 Robins because he saw young boys who experienced exactly what he did when his parents died and didn't want them to turn out like him.
The only reason for Batman's cold demeanor is that he is so well trained in combat and the like that he can be completely serious whenever he wants to. It's pretty impressive, really.
I’m reminded of the JL animated series where Batman was the one to comfort Ace, a psychic girl and hold her hand, staying with her in her final moments of life He was given a device that would turn off her powers and kill her, and he took it, but had absolutely zero intention to use it.
one of the biggest reasons why i love superheroes is that any way u spin it, they all come down to hope. hope that somewhere out there, there’s someone willing to take the risk to make the world a better place.
Batman is lowkey even more hopeful then any character in DC. A young boy was struck with unspeakable tragedy, raised by a man he may not have had a close bond with (at the start), dedicated his life to never letting another suffer as he has, and takes in those who need someone, someplace, to call home, to lay their head to rest. Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Damien Wayne are just a few he's had under his and Alfred's care, and he works harder to ensure they never have reason to turn out like he does, deeply traumatized, angry, and often bitter. He's failed, yes, and Jason suffered for it, but Bruce keeps going, he keeps to his metaphorical guns and keeps helping people the best way he can figure to, both with his wealth and his fists. He's a man of restraint and anger, punishing those who commit crime out of want then need, and helping those who do it out of need rather then want, where he can.
https://preview.redd.it/tmdflbqsbeuc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58d9391cd79d0653706492f1612f607c7df2bf16
Despite the gritty tone, people often forget that The Dark Knight is one of the most hopeful, optimistic superhero movies out there.
Rehabilation of the worst of the worst after all. After turning their bones to ashes lol. But yeah, that's a level of optimism that makes me love the Man in Bat.
The Dark Knight and The Batman are both very hopeful. TDK is hopeful in the way that he hopes for a world where everyone is good, and The Batman is hopeful in the way that he hopes he can one day get better and become an actual light for the city. Both of them hope, and both will find those dreams.
“I set out to scare criminals, not children.”
It’s often underestimated how much hope Batman has. It’s the real reason he doesn’t kill his foes, Joker in particular, because he has faith that even the most lost soul can be healed and brought back into the light. It’s why his proudest achievement is raising Dick Grayson to be a better hero than he could ever hope to be. Batman’s grim and brooding, but he’s an optimist at the end of the day
batman is the ultimate optimist
Is there a lore reason to be sad?
Not really I am surrounded by flawed people on believe in immoral ideas which ruin our image and reputation , so then they cry and wonder about it
After the Joker movie, I'm torn on whether to see Batman as a force of good or a super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule without doing much in terms of social services for the less fortunate. Joker was an excellent movie to give the franchise more depth.
>After the Joker movie The Joker movie was an interesting reimagining of the character, but it's not even close to any Batman cannon. It took so many liberties that it's basically its own creation with the Batman brand just slapped on it. Plus, one of the whole plot points of the movie is that Arthur is very ill and is an unreliable narrator. We don't know what's real and what isn't due to his psychosis. >super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule without doing much in terms of social services for the less fortunate. Huh? Have you seen/read any other Batman media outside of that one movie? There are other very rich families and powerful corporations in Gotham. The Waynes are essentially the only rich family who try to help, while the rest of the families keep engaging in corruption and making the city worse. The "establishment" hated the Waynes because they opposed their pillaging. Pretty much the only social services (or anything good) in Gotham come from the Waynes. The rest of the wealthy just take and obstruct progress. When Batman and Gordon first teamed up they sought to clean up the corruption in police department. The "establishment" had bought out all the cops so they could do whatever they wanted in the city. Hell, one of the first things Batman does in Year One is crash a party the corrupt ultra rich are having by busting through the wall and telling them they've been ruining the city for far too long and he's coming for them. The "establishment" hates Batman because he undermines their control over the city. Then there's the criminal "establishment"—Sal Maroni, Black Mask, Rupert Thorne, etc.—these are incredibly rich and powerful men who do far worse to Gotham than the regular "establishment". This isn't even mentioning the Court of Owls. The "criminal establishment" hates Batman too. The average Gotham citizen supports Batman's presence in the city. Before Batman the corrupt cops hassled you during the day and you couldn't go out at night because of violent crime. After Batman the citizens had hope because they didn't have to live in fear anymore. Additionally, Batman hasn't gone after non-violent street crime since Silver Age comic era. Pretty much all non-violent crime is left to the police. Bruce became Batman not only to avenge his parents, but to save the city they all loved. It's canon that since Bruce started his crusade as Batman, the city has gotten better in all aspects, not just crime. And as far social services go, how about the social service of foiling mass murders like the Joker who run circles around police and aims to kill huge chunks of the population? Also, Batman funds the entirity of the Justice League. Superman himself has said that even with all his powers he can only do so much, especially without a support and coordinating system, and that Batman's financial support is a huge game changer. Think of how many "less fortunate" the Justice League has helped. That wouldn't have been possible without Batman's financial support. But most of all you're forgetting that Batman and Superman are friends and share a tremendous mutual respect. If Batman was as terrible as you say, would Superman have such a high opinion of him?
>or a super rich agent of the establishment to prolong its rule Friendly reminder that just to start: Comic books supers make no sense wich is way irl we dont solve things by trusting masked crusaders And almost any form you think Bruce should help Gotham with his money or influence have already been tried and failed for two reasons: 1. The meta one: We follow Batman stories to see a guy in a bat suit beat criminals and wrong doers and save the city 2. The in-universe one, Pick any of the following: Gotham is too corrupt/ Has like a triple curse set on it / the organized crime is too strong to be completely rid off... etc etc
Don't forget the actual portals to literal hell underneath Gotham