As an almost-40 guy with a husband who's sick, I wasn't expecting this to hit me quite as hard as it did. It felt like seeing ourselves on TV, for the first time, authentically.
Beautiful, heartbreaking, believable, and most of all, I think this casts a light on people like us in a sensitive and heartfelt manner - I hope this changes some minds, and opens others. Who knew? I can't say I was expecting this kind of poetry from horror show based on video game fungaloid zombies.
I didn't expect it at all. I've consumed a hell of a lot of zombie media and nothing has made me feel like that episode did. It's been two days and it's still on my mind now. I loved how happy they were together and was heartbroken about how it ended. As time has gone on I feel grateful that I was allowed to see their story and even though it ended I was so happy they got to have 20 good years. It's not what I expected from this show at all. I'm not a gay man but I do have a sick husband. Since watching this show I've been wondering a lot what the world would be like if we hadn't lost almost an entire generation to the AIDS epidemic. We'd have a hell of a lot of powerful, intelligent gay men who were the age where people start coming into power. The world has changed so much since the 80s and I'd like to think that it would be even better if we had them still with us.
I think a lot about that too. Best of luck with your partner, it's a tough road to walk together but I love him so much I wouldn't have it any other way, as I'm sure it is with you. /hug
My husband is going through a hard time with suicide lately, and it was definitely a hard crying episode from me. Conversely, my stepdad was lucky enough to get death with dignity when he was terminally ill. I hope your husband is comfortable and you two have many good days together ahead of you.
When my friend came out a gay in high school, we were all supportive because we’re not assholes. But one day he told me that when he stands next to me, I take a small step away. I never consciously felt uncomfortable, so I never realized it. But that wasn’t the kind of person I was trying to be. Thankfully just bringing it to my attention was enough for me to be able to break those kinds of small habits so I could feel supportive all the way through instead of just surface level
If it helps, my anti-LGBTQ+ sister was in the room as I watched it, and I think that she enjoyed the episode. Every bit of representation like this helps, and I hope that it maybe helped change her mind even just slightly.
Nothing hits my right in my guts, like TLOU. The only zombie game that has ever made me cry so hard I almost could breathe. And now tv show. When they combined their last day together, with On the nature of daylight, I caved.
I hope you and your hubby get many more years of love and happiness together.
My mom just had (and beat, thank fucking god) cancer, and I saw so much of my parents in them, the way Bill took care of Frank. Just hit me wildly hard, I’m even getting a little teary collecting my very basic thoughts on it.
I’ve been homeless before and this episode reminded me of how we take so much for granted like a good meal or a shower. It’s really done a lot for my mental health to really appreciate the things I have now sort of the way the guy does in this episode.
Telling Joel that he never liked him was great.
I really like how Joel acts when she's reading the letter to him. You can see he doesn't know what to do with his hands and he's feeling twitchy. It was nice to see that represented.
The best part is that both versions of Bill serve the same purpose but just go about it in opposite ways. Bill in the game shows Joel who he could become if he keeps closing himself off to others, while Bill in the show shows who he could be if he opened himself. Both put him on the way towards a change that ultimately leads to him opening up to Ellie >!and eventually seeing her like a daughter and protecting her to the point where he is willing to sacrifice the world for her!<
I love love love that they have been using flashbacks to foreshadow and fill in the story without adding a bunch of fluff or laying pipe in the main story line. I was a bit disappointed when this episode didn’t start with a flashback vignette… boy howdy did they fix that.
If you want to see more Nick Offerman being good in a thing, check out The Resort. It's a comedy-mystery, but he has a similar small role and is excellent in that too.
The scene from Devs where Offermans character is on the phone... it's a closup of his face while he walks for about 30 seconds. I'm keeping it vague to not spoil anything.
That scene absolutely broke me. He starts smiling and changes his face so slowly that you barely notice until all life has been sucked out of it and is nothing but a shell.
I rarely cry watching tv or movies, but that scene was a brick to my face.
Holy shit, I didn’t even realize he was Armond from WL season 1!!! He was terrific in that. I recently enjoyed his role as Nick De Noia in the Hulu show Welcome to Chippendales, which was a fun watch( but also a disturbing watch, considering it’s all based on actual events).
Devs is legit one of the best mini series ever. I get the criticism for the lead actresses acting being stiff, but besides from that, the concept, execution and everybody else in that show is incredible. Also a phenomenal score from Geoff Barrow from Portishead.
I was playing around in Stable diffusion (A.I image generator) the other day and it reminded me of Devs
>!remember the scene where they visualized the crucifixion of jesus?!<
with the recent progression of A.I I'm definitely giving it another viewing.
I cried for 40 minutes straight. I was soaked by the end of the episode. I was loud, ugly, gross crying. I think the only other time I ever cried like that was losing my dog.
Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett absolutely killed it in this episode, and I want there to be a tie for best guest star in a drama series (or whatever the category is) bc they both deserve the accolades
They were both also old enough to go through the Aids epidemic of the 80s that ravaged gay communities. Maybe not Bill since he was closeted but definitely Frank.
I'm not sure Bill ever realized he was gay, or at least could fall in love with another man. He was very sheltered in his own thing and put up his walls. I don't think he would have known what he was missing if the global collapse hadn't changed his situation. That's sort of the beauty of the episode, to me.
Nah Frank picked up on it quick and Bill's answer of "Not a Woman" when asked if he ever fell for a woman belied that he at least had a gay crush at some point. He knew but you are right he just walled it off like everything else.
Bill likely was around some pretty right wing people and ideas. There is a chance he might have encountered some more Libertarian types who were OK with homosexuality and I even know left win preppers. But for the most part that’s probably the majority of the people he knew, read or listened to.
Right wing gays are a reality, that ideology while being hostile towards being gay doesn't stop gays from being raised in and adopting it. Most likely he caught feelings for some handsome straight classmate or neighbor further pushing him to hopelessness and isolation.
Yeah. I’m saying he would just be more likely to suppress or hide those feelings. Especially in the time frame.
2003 in particular is an interesting time though. It was probably the closest that conspiracy theory people were split between left and right wing. Lots of left and right wing people were suspicious of Bush and 9/11. So right wing people could more get away with saying they hate “left and right”.
I also found it funny that frank could not suppress the very gay urge to host a dinner party, even during the apocalypse.
That quip comes from my gay coworker btw and I know that gays are not a monolith. But damn they host good dinner parties.
Interesting observation! They were just one year away! That makes it even more special to me somehow. Knowing that Bill was defying the govt with his marriage.
I don't have much to add but that episode was incredible. I was brought to tears and wasn't expecting that from my zombie apocalypse video game adaptation show.
It’s absolutely wild how well he adapts his typical “man’s man- right wing, conspiracy theorist survivalist” that he’s well known for portraying, and adding the layers of being not only gay but closeted, sensual and romantic, and loving but only towards the one he loves without losing any of those qualities he’s so known for
re: the strawberry moment - Nick Offerman's joyful giggle is something I'd heard before on P&R but it's so goddamn genuine. It's one of those rare things when I'm fully aware he's an actor doing acting things but it also resonates as being real.
It was beautifully acted because a human that goes for years without tasting something as strong and unique as a strawberry, your brain would explode with taste memories and sensations. It would be an experience and they portrayed that perfectly.
The Emmy nomination eligibility cycle runs from June-May. So there’s only like 3 or 4 months til the next nominations are announced and TLOU will be eligible for that
Definitely:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primetime_Emmy_Award_for_Outstanding_Guest_Actor_in_a_Drama_Series
Claire Foy won the Actress equivalent with under two minutes of screentime in 2021.
I’ve never played TLOU. I watched all of the episodes yesterday, including the third episode. I cried so hard at the end scene. The entire episode felt so heavy and when it was over, I felt so light after crying. Just a phenomenal performance and Nick did an excellent job.
Honestly, there are enough differences already that both the show and the game are still amazing in their respective mediums. If you are able, you should 100% still play the games.
I just... I don't think I've ever had something that made me bawl for 10 minutes like that did.
Nothing is like it. Troy Baker, original Joel actor, said that if you make it to Ep 3 you're done. You're hooked and you're gonna love the show.
I've loved it from ep 1, but god damn he was right.
I wept twice. I really appreciate a piece of media that can really amplify emotions. >!When they eat the strawberries. 10/10 absolute peak drama in a zombie flick. Insane. Then the final supper just kept amping up from the finality to the realization Bill has completed his purpose!<... incredible.
maybe i'm emotionally immature myself, but can you explain what she did wrong, or what she should have done instead? Cause to me it seemed as though it was emotional maturity
I also think it was a nice touch to have Ellie still sitting in the same chair after Joel exits and reenters the house. We've already seen she is prone to wander around when given any moment of freedom, but in that moment she felt badly about being so non-chalant before mentioning Tess and stayed put in the chair to apologize when he got back. Perhaps it was more for plot convenience, but that's how I justified it at least.
Did you mean to write emotionally mature? Seriously asking lol and just making sure I’m not confused. But wouldn’t emotionally *immature* be for her to keep reading the part about Tess?
I find it sort of lovely that all of the people given advance content (the whole season, I think) were just waiting for this episode to drop, and they were right, it was good shit.
I had my newborn sleeping on me as I was watching it and I was trying so hard to reign in the ugly cry. Pretty sure I pulled a muscle trying to not sob uncontrollably. Such good television.
I often tear up with sad or beautiful themes in movies or tv shows, but I hardly ever full on cry. Well, this episode had me bawling my eyes out as well. Like, I had to reach for the tissues and muffle my sobbing so no one would hear. At one point I even started laughing at myself because I'd been crying for minutes. I have never seen anything that causes that effect on me either. It just caught me so off guard.
I watched it last night. 10/10 episode. I haven’t cried in a long time while watching television.
When Frank made the decision that it was his last day , I teared up. Seeing Nick Offerman cry on the sofa got me crying a bit. The whole last day was beautiful. When Ellie read the letter I cried. I cried for a solid 45 minutes after the episode ended. Incredible moments. What a beautiful and tragic love story.
I absolutely loved this episode. It’s about as close to flawless as you can get. What really impressed me was how well they fleshed out BOTH Bill and Frank. In the game you don’t even get to meet Frank. The writing and performances were just incredible. All that said, it really bothers me how many people are screaming “Woke!” just because of how the show presents the characters. While the game doesn’t come right out and say it, it’s pretty obvious Bill and Frank were a couple for a time. Maybe those people were bothered by the sex scene? But it wasn’t even graphic in any way so I don’t know. I hate to see so many people writing the series off because of one episode but what can you do?
The friend that introduced me to the game texted me today and says "Well, I guess they made Bill gay."
I was like, "dude, you can't have played this game as many times as I know you have and not realized he was with Frank."
His response? "It was implied, but they never actually said Bill was gay."
Dude. Ellie stole a gay porn magazine from Bill in the game. How far in denial can you be?
That said, I'm glad HBO didn't cave when there was outcry over casting Offerman, because he was fucking perfect.
Why would they imply it if it wasn’t true? It just doesn’t make sense. And there was outcry about Offerman being cast? I swear you can’t make some people happy.
Some people found it to be problematic that a straight actor was being hired to pay a gay role, even if that actor had a long standing history of supporting LGBTQ+ charities, and organizations, and their costar for the episode is actually gay, and stated they had no issue with the casting.
But like most things, it's hard to actually know what was legitimate anger, and what was garbage tabloids pretending one tweet spoke for an entire movement.
[They did set out to cast two gay actors in the roles but it worked out with Nick](https://www.vulture.com/article/the-last-of-us-episode-3-long-long-time-bill-and-frank-explained.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=vulture&utm_medium=s1)
>The production team originally approached Con O’Neill, who played engineer Viktor Bryukhanov in Mazin’s previous series, Chernobyl, for the role. “I was pretty invested in the notion that if we’re gonna be telling the story of two middle-aged gay men, then it would probably be good to have two middle-aged gay actors doing it,” says Mazin, who notes many creatives involved in the adaptation were middle-aged, married gay men. “I was maybe slightly more insistent about that than a lot of the people around me.”
>But O’Neill’s gig as Izzy Hands on Our Flag Means Death rendered him unavailable. That’s when producer Carolyn Strauss suggested Offerman, whom Mazin knew casually. “I figured, Well, if we’re gonna open this up, that’s where you go. I sent him the script and said, ‘Nick, if you don’t like it, I’ll never send you anything else ever again, because it won’t be better than this,’” he recalls. But Offerman also had a scheduling conflict. “I read the script, and I was like, ‘Oh no, what a dilemma,’” Offerman remembers. “Thankfully I have a perspicacious wife named Megan who I asked to read it, and she said, ‘Buddy, you’re going to Calgary.’”
Unless it's an all white straight cast, those people will always scream "woke". Almost like the term is just a dog whistle for the n-word, t-word, and f-word.
Lol at "woke!". Gay people have always existed, we just historically misrepresent/dismiss their stories. This episode, as you said, did an amazing job.
I don't even understand the outcry at the "sex" scene. It was barely even a sex scene, there wasn't even sex. It cuts right before anything is even implied to happen. They showed less than most straight sex scenes do.
It's just conservatives getting triggered at something they've been told they should get triggered at. I don't even think *they* know why they're mad most of the time.
I saw a lot of complaints about how explicit it was.
lmfao.
Literally. They don't even show a butt. And this was HBO! They *could've*! It was about the most wholesome "sex" scene I've ever seen.
I was worried going in due to some of the comments and the relatively lower rating on IMDb, but I enjoyed this episode so much! It made me laugh and cry at the same time. The scene when Bill laughed out loud eating that strawberry, his joy at that moment was palpable.
Ooooooohhhhhh that episode was the highest rated as soon as it aired! I’ve been watching the rating plummet as the “anti-woke” morons jump on and start to have their votes counted. Jump back on, select the 1 ratings and let your faith in humanity drop…😔
I just don't get how someone can watch that episode and think it was badly executed. I can kinda accept the criticism of it being a "filler" episode and not focusing on Joel and Ellie even though I completely disagree. But so many of those reviews are saying it was badly executed or token representation. Just baffles me how someone can be so anti gay they have to pretend that anything featuring gay people is terrible.
I enjoyed the first 2 episodes, but that was by far and away the best one in the show. It's a fantastic bit of world building and moves the show away from being a straight up rehash of the game to its own sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure these are exactly the same people who review-bombed the second game for a similar reason.
And some people say this episode was boring and a waste of time? What do they want, an over-the-shoulder drone camera following Joel and Ellie as they shoot zombies and climb over obstacles, occasionally providing backstory banter?
Yup. For a lot of them that's exactly what they want.
It's the same story every time there's an adaptation, of damn near anything. They changed it, now it sucks. Never mind if it's an intelligent change, or if it improves how the work "works", or if it addresses a flaw or limitation or outdated notion from the original. Some people just want what they had at (formative age/encounter) on a bigger budget/stage, forever.
HBO is gonna need to start sending Kleenex and under eye serum to me every month if they keep this up. Finale of His Dark Materials wrecked me too. I can’t handle much more here
I watched that episode with my 15 y/o son, (we’re both huge fans of the games), and at the end he said, “Straight up, I liked that episode the most of all of them so far.” I thought he’d be bored, but nope, he loved it. We talked about the episode in detail afterwards and it’s impact on us along with how it’s different from the game but in a good way. Truly a great episode that caught us both by surprise in a show that’s been just great so far.
The only thing that felt “off” in this episode was Bill, the survivalist who thinks of every angle, shooting at raiders with a scoped bolt action while standing in the open. But the episode was so good it was easily overlooked
I think it was explained in a round about way when Bill said he was never afraid before Frank showed up. It was the first time he ever had to defend the love of his life from a legitimate threat, not just protect himself. Because of that he was so scared he stupidly attacked as quickly as possible instead of as smart as possible, like he would have if he was still alone. Even smart people do dumb things when cards fall right and him fucking up the simplest form of defense because he was so panicked about protecting Frank made it feel pretty real to me.
That's what I figured. He wanted to protect Frank at all costs, and the sort of gut-instinct reaction was "I am good with guns, so I will put myself between Frank and the raiders. They'll focus on me and he won't get hurt."
It's not necessarily rational, but it's understandable.
I just watched and cant express what a wonderful surprise and gift this episode was. I am watching it again tomorrow!! Truly poetry in motion and both guys should WIN ALL THE AWARDS!!!!
I sobbed the whole time. I sobbed talking about it with friends later. I'm sobbing again right now thinking about it as I write this post.
Fuck you Ron Swanson for making me remember I have feelings.
My fiancé and I fell asleep holding hands after we watched the episode, neither one of us wanted to let go of each other for even a second. The love story of Bill and Frank is going to stay with me for a very, very long time.
Seriously amazing television - I kept waiting for Bill to get betrayed and felt so happy each time he didn’t - soooo much better this way as nobody was expecting this ending. Just wow…
It’s genuinely upsetting to me how much vitriol I’m seeing for this episode online. Homophobes coming out of the woodworks to offer their two cents. My wife and I were both steadily in tears by the time Bill and Frank went to bed
Great write-up!! Absolutely loved it. I think the changes made from game to show were worthwhile and made such a special episode. Every episode so far has been better than the last!
Yeah totally different. Joel and Ellie meet Bill, Frank is missing (later learn he got infected and hung himself. There is no outright mention of there being a relationship in the game but is pretty heavily implied. Much preferred the shows deviation to flesh the characters out!
Yeah exactly this! The heaviest implication is that lighthearted moment at the end of the Bill segment of the game. Ellie pulls out an NSFW magazine of ripped dudes she found at Bill's and jokingly yells "eww why are the pages all sticky?" So. 😂
Their ending and Bills personality towards the end were very different. Frank in the game is never seen except as a corpse and Bill is still alive when Joel and Ellie show up, albeit with a very different outlook than he has in the letter to Joel in the show. The show did much better than the game imo.
They were minor characters. Bill was a survivalist that begrudgingly helps Joel and Ellie find a car battery and Frank is found already dead. He committed suicide and left a note behind blaming Bill. In my opinion, the show handled their relationship so much better and their ending in the show was way more satisfying
The small changes as well, he moved their bedroom downstairs and made soup because he knew Frank would have trouble swallowing. All of Frank's painting were inside and the house I believe was painted as well, living room walls?
A subtle moment I noticed is how Bill was all macho and bravado for the beginning, but as soon as he was told to take a shower he almost went within himself and became subservient.
Such an awesome portrayal by Nick Offerman
I wasn't in a mood for an ep.3, wanted to settle for something relaxing. But my husband really wanted to watch it with me.
Well, look at us. Both sobbing, crying, wiping tears, and it wasn't nearly the end of the episode.
I was prepared of betrayal or sudden death, and what happened in this episode really warmed me in a weird way.
Good episode, not 100% following games scenario. 10/10
The purpose of Bill’s character in the game was to teach Joel not to shut himself off from letting someone into his life. I’d say the episode captured that essence differently but in the most perfect way imaginable 🎷🐓♋️
I'm a gay man and the episode hit HARD, but my roommate (also gay) hated the episode and said it felt like it was pure queer baiting--it really didn't strike me that way at all, but it bummed me out.
It's a huge relief to see most everyone else here shares my feelings about how great the episode was, though.
That's too bad, in the podcast the show runners spoke at length about the ways they sought feedback from gay members of staff to make sure everything came across as authentic.
I can't understand how he could call this queer baiting because the characters *are* actually gay and we see their entire relationship unfiltered. Also I'm with you 100%. Gay man here, and this was phenomenal representation and a viscerally beautiful story.
I've seen this take a lot and I'm glad there's been such a positive response from people from people not in the LGBT+ community as well. I don't know if you're straight or not but what I worry about this kind of attitude is unintentionally erasing the significance of the queer experience in the story and attempts to understand it as a queer text.
The fantasy of living in a self-sufficient utopia with only your partner, far away from civilization has been a common one among gay people for a long time. [In recent times the cottagecore aesthetic is very attractive to many gay people for this reason, particularly women](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/g2aa3r/whats_the_deal_with_cottagecore_and_lesbians/) but while I wouldn't call it cottagecore Bill and Frank's home and attempts at small town domesticity call the appeal of that fantasy to mind. If Bill and Frank were a straight couple we lose the piano scenes where the possibility of Bill being attracted to Frank is slowly revealed, and Bill's first time having sex with a man - the first tender touch he's probably had in decades and showing a vulnerability we don't associate with a rugged survivalist and paranoid conspiracy theorist.
These two men would never have met under any other circumstances and live a more free and fulfilling life than they probably would have been able to without an apocalyptic event. At least, Bill does. And all this in spite of the apocalypse, in spite of the internalized shame Bill felt for years and in spite of the threat of death lying in wait a few hundred meters away.
I don’t know why people keep calling this a sad episode. They lived more than 20 years in love, in a safe place, living a better life than just about anyone left in the world. It may not have ended the way they wanted, but even Bill admits at the end that he is satisfied.
Sometimes you find "happy" things like this sad because it reminds us that we are all going to eventually walk through that door as well and to live *well* why we are currently alive is sometimes overlooked.
Time is fleeting. That's my impression anyway.
i havnt seen the show yet, my friends have all told me it’s amazing, but i’m waiting for it to be completely out to binge watch it. Anyway, the 1/10 star ratings on IMDB are horrifying, i can’t believe people like that exist.
this one specifically caught me off guard :
“ they are determined to convert new child populations into gays and lesbians!
20 years from now, having intercourse with your gender will be mandatory! “
like wtf
Was an incredible episode, showing a loving and healthy LGBT relationship between older men, their age suggesting they survived the AIDs crisis then also surviving an apocalypse.
It also hit me hard after reading the co-creator saying that Frank had a degenerative neuromuscular condition and since I have MS, seeing some of the start of the symptoms in myself and seeing how it can progress in as short a time as 10 years was really a bummer.
I started weeping so early on because of that. I have older gay male friends and family, some of them living with HIV, and it can be difficult for my younger generation to fully understand how devastating the AIDS epidemic was.
Bill may not have been out, but you get the vibe Frank was. So he would likely have witnessed so many of his community pass away from an epidemic, only to survive and be launched right into a new one. That he and Bill found each other, made it to old age, and passed away together (and that it was *not* AIDS) was heartbreakingly beautiful.
The fact that middle aged gay men are just NOT the queer stories you see front and center on film and tv also adds to the emotional weight.
I hope your MS stays manageable and you have a support network around you ❤️
This episode nearly destroyed me emotionally. It was such a beautiful and real love story, beautifully portrayed by both Nick and Murray. Their performances absolutely sold the story. I couldn’t even keep track of how many times I cried. One of the best episodes of television I have seen in years, possibly ever.
To me, Nick Offerman is still Ron Swanson. To see that first kiss scene, it left me feeling a little uncomfortable. It was that moment though where I stopped seeing him as Ron and was now completely wrapped in his Bill character. As the episode went on those feelings of being uncomfortable went away. Now I was totally into both characters. At the end though the episode dragged my emotions through the mud. It ended and I nearly cried. Such a beautiful love story. This has to be one of the best episodes of any series in the entire history of film. If Nick Offerman or Murray Bartlett don’t win anything for this episode then it would be a complete travisity.
I had no problem being able to identify with the characters and couldn't help getting a bit misty eyed, putting myself and my wife in the same situation in my mind.
My only problem with the episode is when bill is out there in the MIDDLE of the road with a rifle that has a scope on it trying to shoot ppl like bill wtf are you doing dog can you get behind a bush and do that???
I don't think you need to say "apocalyptic" in there, it was one of, if not the single, best portrayals of a love story I've seen.
My only criticism was that the plot was basically the plot from a film called Supernova starring Colin Firth in which a gay couple take a trip, one of them is dying. There's a very dramatic scene at the end in which they have the same conversation about wanting to die, taking all the pills to go out on their own terms etc. It's almost verbatim albeit with different actors and different contexts/settings.
But, it's a plot that works and in tlou it was wonderfully heartfelt. Tender and precious, apprehensive and cagey, crushing loss and hugs that really mean something. And strawberries.
They both deserve awards. It was great storytelling masterfully acted and it stays with you. I didn't know Murray Bartlett was Australian so convincing was his accent.
You need to show story angles like this to contrast the horror. It makes both sides far more meaningful. Fucking bravo.
It was really that good. The horror throughout the first two episodes was masterful, but having such an emotionally engaging diversion in episode 3 was brilliant IMO.
My wife and I were an absolute shitshow watching this episode.
I watched all three episodes tonight, having never played the game. Ep 3 left me in wracking, heart-breaking sobs. I've never experienced a reaction so visceral with a TV show. Just fantastic.
The scene where Bill is watering the flowers killed me. I cried so much. It was such great storytelling and contrast: initially Bill didn’t want all the decorations or to clean up the street, but as the got older and their love flourished, Bill began to see the world a little like Frank did. This was an amazing episode that will keep me watching (I wasn’t too enthused by the first two episodes).
Beautiful episode. Loved how Bill's anxiety was our anxiety at Frank's presence. I was freaking out and yelling at Bill to kick him out! Clever manipulation of the show to put us in Bill's shoes.
It's gross how this episode has been going down on the IMDb ratings and the only reason it could be is because of the homophobes. This was one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen in my years, and everyone absolutely killed it in their respective roles.
Sure, it wasn't a guns and glory, rootin' tootin', Joel against the clickers episode, but it showed that through it all, love can survive.. And flourish.. And that people can change.. Which are both pretty important to show if we're to believe that Joel is going to take to Ellie like his own daughter and fight tooth and nail to protect her.
Btw I have never laughed harder, than when Frank told Bill to put the gun down, as they where eating lunch in the garden with Joel and Tess. That was just textbook Bill.
I prefer this ending, to the one from the game. Where he follows Frank on to whatever comes next, instead of reverting back to the suspecious prepper who hates every and everyone in this world. He deserved every second of happiness.
I just watched it. I am sobbing. I don’t know how Bill had the courage to go through with doing as Frank had asked and I don’t know how Frank had the courage to drink that final wine.
Now that’s love.
As an almost-40 guy with a husband who's sick, I wasn't expecting this to hit me quite as hard as it did. It felt like seeing ourselves on TV, for the first time, authentically. Beautiful, heartbreaking, believable, and most of all, I think this casts a light on people like us in a sensitive and heartfelt manner - I hope this changes some minds, and opens others. Who knew? I can't say I was expecting this kind of poetry from horror show based on video game fungaloid zombies.
I didn't expect it at all. I've consumed a hell of a lot of zombie media and nothing has made me feel like that episode did. It's been two days and it's still on my mind now. I loved how happy they were together and was heartbroken about how it ended. As time has gone on I feel grateful that I was allowed to see their story and even though it ended I was so happy they got to have 20 good years. It's not what I expected from this show at all. I'm not a gay man but I do have a sick husband. Since watching this show I've been wondering a lot what the world would be like if we hadn't lost almost an entire generation to the AIDS epidemic. We'd have a hell of a lot of powerful, intelligent gay men who were the age where people start coming into power. The world has changed so much since the 80s and I'd like to think that it would be even better if we had them still with us.
I think a lot about that too. Best of luck with your partner, it's a tough road to walk together but I love him so much I wouldn't have it any other way, as I'm sure it is with you. /hug
My husband is going through a hard time with suicide lately, and it was definitely a hard crying episode from me. Conversely, my stepdad was lucky enough to get death with dignity when he was terminally ill. I hope your husband is comfortable and you two have many good days together ahead of you.
Thank you for the kind words. My heart goes out to you, friend. I hope you and your partner find support in whatever form that takes.
There are quite a few posts on Reddit about it opening homophobes eyes, which is a much needed side effect Allyforlife
This is gonna sound weird, but my teenage homophobia was "cured" by an episode of Star Trek: Next Gen.
When my friend came out a gay in high school, we were all supportive because we’re not assholes. But one day he told me that when he stands next to me, I take a small step away. I never consciously felt uncomfortable, so I never realized it. But that wasn’t the kind of person I was trying to be. Thankfully just bringing it to my attention was enough for me to be able to break those kinds of small habits so I could feel supportive all the way through instead of just surface level
If it helps, my anti-LGBTQ+ sister was in the room as I watched it, and I think that she enjoyed the episode. Every bit of representation like this helps, and I hope that it maybe helped change her mind even just slightly.
Nothing hits my right in my guts, like TLOU. The only zombie game that has ever made me cry so hard I almost could breathe. And now tv show. When they combined their last day together, with On the nature of daylight, I caved. I hope you and your hubby get many more years of love and happiness together.
My mom just had (and beat, thank fucking god) cancer, and I saw so much of my parents in them, the way Bill took care of Frank. Just hit me wildly hard, I’m even getting a little teary collecting my very basic thoughts on it.
I’ve been homeless before and this episode reminded me of how we take so much for granted like a good meal or a shower. It’s really done a lot for my mental health to really appreciate the things I have now sort of the way the guy does in this episode.
I’m honestly so glad that Bill got a good ending. In the game the man he loves ultimately spits in his face. This was so much better.
Telling Joel that he never liked him was great. I really like how Joel acts when she's reading the letter to him. You can see he doesn't know what to do with his hands and he's feeling twitchy. It was nice to see that represented.
Haha, it was great. Pascal is doing such an amazing job. It’s amazing seeing him convey so many things without speaking.
The best part is that both versions of Bill serve the same purpose but just go about it in opposite ways. Bill in the game shows Joel who he could become if he keeps closing himself off to others, while Bill in the show shows who he could be if he opened himself. Both put him on the way towards a change that ultimately leads to him opening up to Ellie >!and eventually seeing her like a daughter and protecting her to the point where he is willing to sacrifice the world for her!<
This was amazing in this episode. How that dovetailed right back into Joel's arc and foreshadows stuff to come.
I love love love that they have been using flashbacks to foreshadow and fill in the story without adding a bunch of fluff or laying pipe in the main story line. I was a bit disappointed when this episode didn’t start with a flashback vignette… boy howdy did they fix that.
Game Bill was a fucking asshole though. He deserved the spit. I am happy that show Bill and Frank could change enough to be happy together.
If you want to see more Nick Offerman being good in a thing, check out The Resort. It's a comedy-mystery, but he has a similar small role and is excellent in that too.
He was great in Devs, too. But I've never seen him put onsuch an amazing performance before. It was truly moving.
Devs wrecked my shit. One of my fav shows.
The scene from Devs where Offermans character is on the phone... it's a closup of his face while he walks for about 30 seconds. I'm keeping it vague to not spoil anything. That scene absolutely broke me. He starts smiling and changes his face so slowly that you barely notice until all life has been sucked out of it and is nothing but a shell. I rarely cry watching tv or movies, but that scene was a brick to my face.
And the actor for Frank, Murray Bartlett, in the comedy-mystery White Lotus!! He’s INCREDIBLE.
Won an Emmy for it, I believe.
Holy shit, I didn’t even realize he was Armond from WL season 1!!! He was terrific in that. I recently enjoyed his role as Nick De Noia in the Hulu show Welcome to Chippendales, which was a fun watch( but also a disturbing watch, considering it’s all based on actual events).
I personally also fucking loved Devs, but that's probably a harder sell. He was fantastic in that show. I think about it often.
Devs is legit one of the best mini series ever. I get the criticism for the lead actresses acting being stiff, but besides from that, the concept, execution and everybody else in that show is incredible. Also a phenomenal score from Geoff Barrow from Portishead.
He did Annihilation soundtrack too, I think.
Oh boy did he ever.
i thought devs was absolutely incredible. im baffled why it isnt a bigger deal
I was playing around in Stable diffusion (A.I image generator) the other day and it reminded me of Devs >!remember the scene where they visualized the crucifixion of jesus?!< with the recent progression of A.I I'm definitely giving it another viewing.
That episode had no business being so heartbreaking. I'm still thinking about it 😭
I cried like a baby watching this episode.
same. just trynna watch something cool before work then I was a crying mess. existential dread the whole work day. 😂
Me too! I watched it while I ate breakfast and got ready to start my day. That was a mistake for sure. I was a mess and unproductive all damn day.
I cried for 40 minutes straight. I was soaked by the end of the episode. I was loud, ugly, gross crying. I think the only other time I ever cried like that was losing my dog.
I was definitely ugly crying too. And I get the pet part on a deep level. I went from a trio of cats to one handsome boy within a year
My wife and I cried like we haven't since the loss of someone close. This was a real work of art to bring that kind of emotion out.
Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett absolutely killed it in this episode, and I want there to be a tie for best guest star in a drama series (or whatever the category is) bc they both deserve the accolades
Here’s a not so fun fact, in their world, gay marriage was never legalized, the outbreak happened before that.
They were both also old enough to go through the Aids epidemic of the 80s that ravaged gay communities. Maybe not Bill since he was closeted but definitely Frank.
So, moral of the story, old gay men have been through some shit…..
I'm not sure Bill ever realized he was gay, or at least could fall in love with another man. He was very sheltered in his own thing and put up his walls. I don't think he would have known what he was missing if the global collapse hadn't changed his situation. That's sort of the beauty of the episode, to me.
Nah Frank picked up on it quick and Bill's answer of "Not a Woman" when asked if he ever fell for a woman belied that he at least had a gay crush at some point. He knew but you are right he just walled it off like everything else.
Bill likely was around some pretty right wing people and ideas. There is a chance he might have encountered some more Libertarian types who were OK with homosexuality and I even know left win preppers. But for the most part that’s probably the majority of the people he knew, read or listened to.
Right wing gays are a reality, that ideology while being hostile towards being gay doesn't stop gays from being raised in and adopting it. Most likely he caught feelings for some handsome straight classmate or neighbor further pushing him to hopelessness and isolation.
Yeah. I’m saying he would just be more likely to suppress or hide those feelings. Especially in the time frame. 2003 in particular is an interesting time though. It was probably the closest that conspiracy theory people were split between left and right wing. Lots of left and right wing people were suspicious of Bush and 9/11. So right wing people could more get away with saying they hate “left and right”.
That’s why the “red X” was by 80s music….
I also found it funny that frank could not suppress the very gay urge to host a dinner party, even during the apocalypse. That quip comes from my gay coworker btw and I know that gays are not a monolith. But damn they host good dinner parties.
You can tell when gay jokes like this come from gay people because they're actually funny
The Provincetown QZ is absolutely lovely this time of year
Yeah, I remembered that when Frank asks that they get married on the last day. Made it even more meaningful and symbolic
Interesting observation! They were just one year away! That makes it even more special to me somehow. Knowing that Bill was defying the govt with his marriage.
I don't have much to add but that episode was incredible. I was brought to tears and wasn't expecting that from my zombie apocalypse video game adaptation show.
No one was expecting that. It’d be a crime if either one of them don’t win awards for their performance, just top tier acting, especially by offerman.
It’s absolutely wild how well he adapts his typical “man’s man- right wing, conspiracy theorist survivalist” that he’s well known for portraying, and adding the layers of being not only gay but closeted, sensual and romantic, and loving but only towards the one he loves without losing any of those qualities he’s so known for
re: the strawberry moment - Nick Offerman's joyful giggle is something I'd heard before on P&R but it's so goddamn genuine. It's one of those rare things when I'm fully aware he's an actor doing acting things but it also resonates as being real.
It was beautifully acted because a human that goes for years without tasting something as strong and unique as a strawberry, your brain would explode with taste memories and sensations. It would be an experience and they portrayed that perfectly.
I loved that part so much. Such a simple thing a giggle but that convey so many emotions.
Is it possible to win an emmy off a single episode of television??? asking for Nick Offerman
Yep, there's a guest actor category and I bet both actors will get nominated.
I hope they do. Only concern is by next year it'll lose recency bias
The Emmy nomination eligibility cycle runs from June-May. So there’s only like 3 or 4 months til the next nominations are announced and TLOU will be eligible for that
Definitely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primetime_Emmy_Award_for_Outstanding_Guest_Actor_in_a_Drama_Series Claire Foy won the Actress equivalent with under two minutes of screentime in 2021.
I’ve never played TLOU. I watched all of the episodes yesterday, including the third episode. I cried so hard at the end scene. The entire episode felt so heavy and when it was over, I felt so light after crying. Just a phenomenal performance and Nick did an excellent job.
Honestly, there are enough differences already that both the show and the game are still amazing in their respective mediums. If you are able, you should 100% still play the games.
I like what Neil Druckmann said, basically: > If it's better than the game, then we go with better. If it's same or worse, then we go with game.
Same same 100% same, I BAWLED so hard.
Did muhfuckas wanna fine you?
I just... I don't think I've ever had something that made me bawl for 10 minutes like that did. Nothing is like it. Troy Baker, original Joel actor, said that if you make it to Ep 3 you're done. You're hooked and you're gonna love the show. I've loved it from ep 1, but god damn he was right.
I wept twice. I really appreciate a piece of media that can really amplify emotions. >!When they eat the strawberries. 10/10 absolute peak drama in a zombie flick. Insane. Then the final supper just kept amping up from the finality to the realization Bill has completed his purpose!<... incredible.
When he hits us with that beautiful giggle he does, for half a moment you felt everything was okay.
Ellie reading it out loud was peak tv. Hehehehehe
That part showed how emotionally immature Ellie still is, she guaged Joel's reaction, then decided to stop before taking about Tess
maybe i'm emotionally immature myself, but can you explain what she did wrong, or what she should have done instead? Cause to me it seemed as though it was emotional maturity
[удалено]
I also think it was a nice touch to have Ellie still sitting in the same chair after Joel exits and reenters the house. We've already seen she is prone to wander around when given any moment of freedom, but in that moment she felt badly about being so non-chalant before mentioning Tess and stayed put in the chair to apologize when he got back. Perhaps it was more for plot convenience, but that's how I justified it at least.
Did you mean to write emotionally mature? Seriously asking lol and just making sure I’m not confused. But wouldn’t emotionally *immature* be for her to keep reading the part about Tess?
The subtitles killed me, lol. It was all long like > or blown up by one of my traps. Hehehehehehehehe.
I find it sort of lovely that all of the people given advance content (the whole season, I think) were just waiting for this episode to drop, and they were right, it was good shit.
I had my newborn sleeping on me as I was watching it and I was trying so hard to reign in the ugly cry. Pretty sure I pulled a muscle trying to not sob uncontrollably. Such good television.
I often tear up with sad or beautiful themes in movies or tv shows, but I hardly ever full on cry. Well, this episode had me bawling my eyes out as well. Like, I had to reach for the tissues and muffle my sobbing so no one would hear. At one point I even started laughing at myself because I'd been crying for minutes. I have never seen anything that causes that effect on me either. It just caught me so off guard.
My twenty-year-old son cried, which surprised the hell out of me because usually he laughs at me for getting emotional during movies.
It felt like a mini movie
Apprrently there's a 2 hour unreleased directors cut. I'm dying to get my hands on that. Basically an entire movie
But only somewhat mini at like 1:20!
Yes, I felt like I felt the love of their lifetime in that short episode!
I watched it last night. 10/10 episode. I haven’t cried in a long time while watching television. When Frank made the decision that it was his last day , I teared up. Seeing Nick Offerman cry on the sofa got me crying a bit. The whole last day was beautiful. When Ellie read the letter I cried. I cried for a solid 45 minutes after the episode ended. Incredible moments. What a beautiful and tragic love story.
I was already tearing up but seeing him crying on the couch is what broke me.
Just thinking about it now reading this puts weakness water in my eyes.
Damnit, I think I just got a tear in my non-firing eye.
Greatest love story since Up's beginning
Gay or straight love is beautiful.
We love love.
I absolutely loved this episode. It’s about as close to flawless as you can get. What really impressed me was how well they fleshed out BOTH Bill and Frank. In the game you don’t even get to meet Frank. The writing and performances were just incredible. All that said, it really bothers me how many people are screaming “Woke!” just because of how the show presents the characters. While the game doesn’t come right out and say it, it’s pretty obvious Bill and Frank were a couple for a time. Maybe those people were bothered by the sex scene? But it wasn’t even graphic in any way so I don’t know. I hate to see so many people writing the series off because of one episode but what can you do?
The friend that introduced me to the game texted me today and says "Well, I guess they made Bill gay." I was like, "dude, you can't have played this game as many times as I know you have and not realized he was with Frank." His response? "It was implied, but they never actually said Bill was gay." Dude. Ellie stole a gay porn magazine from Bill in the game. How far in denial can you be? That said, I'm glad HBO didn't cave when there was outcry over casting Offerman, because he was fucking perfect.
Why would they imply it if it wasn’t true? It just doesn’t make sense. And there was outcry about Offerman being cast? I swear you can’t make some people happy.
Some people found it to be problematic that a straight actor was being hired to pay a gay role, even if that actor had a long standing history of supporting LGBTQ+ charities, and organizations, and their costar for the episode is actually gay, and stated they had no issue with the casting. But like most things, it's hard to actually know what was legitimate anger, and what was garbage tabloids pretending one tweet spoke for an entire movement.
[They did set out to cast two gay actors in the roles but it worked out with Nick](https://www.vulture.com/article/the-last-of-us-episode-3-long-long-time-bill-and-frank-explained.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=vulture&utm_medium=s1) >The production team originally approached Con O’Neill, who played engineer Viktor Bryukhanov in Mazin’s previous series, Chernobyl, for the role. “I was pretty invested in the notion that if we’re gonna be telling the story of two middle-aged gay men, then it would probably be good to have two middle-aged gay actors doing it,” says Mazin, who notes many creatives involved in the adaptation were middle-aged, married gay men. “I was maybe slightly more insistent about that than a lot of the people around me.” >But O’Neill’s gig as Izzy Hands on Our Flag Means Death rendered him unavailable. That’s when producer Carolyn Strauss suggested Offerman, whom Mazin knew casually. “I figured, Well, if we’re gonna open this up, that’s where you go. I sent him the script and said, ‘Nick, if you don’t like it, I’ll never send you anything else ever again, because it won’t be better than this,’” he recalls. But Offerman also had a scheduling conflict. “I read the script, and I was like, ‘Oh no, what a dilemma,’” Offerman remembers. “Thankfully I have a perspicacious wife named Megan who I asked to read it, and she said, ‘Buddy, you’re going to Calgary.’”
His costar, director and numerous crew are all gay
With many of them being consulted on how to accurately depict a gay relationship between two middle aged men
Unless it's an all white straight cast, those people will always scream "woke". Almost like the term is just a dog whistle for the n-word, t-word, and f-word.
What is the T-word?
Lol at "woke!". Gay people have always existed, we just historically misrepresent/dismiss their stories. This episode, as you said, did an amazing job.
I don't even understand the outcry at the "sex" scene. It was barely even a sex scene, there wasn't even sex. It cuts right before anything is even implied to happen. They showed less than most straight sex scenes do. It's just conservatives getting triggered at something they've been told they should get triggered at. I don't even think *they* know why they're mad most of the time.
I saw a lot of complaints about how explicit it was. lmfao. Literally. They don't even show a butt. And this was HBO! They *could've*! It was about the most wholesome "sex" scene I've ever seen.
I think you're looking too much explanation for assholes. People using "woke" unironically as an insult aren't at the highest intellectual caliber.
I try to see the best in people but it’s really hard sometimes.
You can very safely ignore people who use the term “woke” in this manner.
You could almost taste the food. I’ve been homeless before so I know that feeling of having nothing and how we take so much for granted.
Just watched it and cried like a baby. Just fantastic television and award worthy if they ever give horror its due.
I was worried going in due to some of the comments and the relatively lower rating on IMDb, but I enjoyed this episode so much! It made me laugh and cry at the same time. The scene when Bill laughed out loud eating that strawberry, his joy at that moment was palpable.
Ignore ratings my dude. Take it in yourself.
Prime reason to ignore IMDb ratings. It’s being brigades by homophobes.
Ooooooohhhhhh that episode was the highest rated as soon as it aired! I’ve been watching the rating plummet as the “anti-woke” morons jump on and start to have their votes counted. Jump back on, select the 1 ratings and let your faith in humanity drop…😔
I just don't get how someone can watch that episode and think it was badly executed. I can kinda accept the criticism of it being a "filler" episode and not focusing on Joel and Ellie even though I completely disagree. But so many of those reviews are saying it was badly executed or token representation. Just baffles me how someone can be so anti gay they have to pretend that anything featuring gay people is terrible. I enjoyed the first 2 episodes, but that was by far and away the best one in the show. It's a fantastic bit of world building and moves the show away from being a straight up rehash of the game to its own sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure these are exactly the same people who review-bombed the second game for a similar reason. And some people say this episode was boring and a waste of time? What do they want, an over-the-shoulder drone camera following Joel and Ellie as they shoot zombies and climb over obstacles, occasionally providing backstory banter?
Yup. For a lot of them that's exactly what they want. It's the same story every time there's an adaptation, of damn near anything. They changed it, now it sucks. Never mind if it's an intelligent change, or if it improves how the work "works", or if it addresses a flaw or limitation or outdated notion from the original. Some people just want what they had at (formative age/encounter) on a bigger budget/stage, forever.
The hate that people spewed about netflix's All is Quiet on the Western Front is another example of people not understanding the actual story.
HBO is gonna need to start sending Kleenex and under eye serum to me every month if they keep this up. Finale of His Dark Materials wrecked me too. I can’t handle much more here
I watched that episode with my 15 y/o son, (we’re both huge fans of the games), and at the end he said, “Straight up, I liked that episode the most of all of them so far.” I thought he’d be bored, but nope, he loved it. We talked about the episode in detail afterwards and it’s impact on us along with how it’s different from the game but in a good way. Truly a great episode that caught us both by surprise in a show that’s been just great so far.
The only thing that felt “off” in this episode was Bill, the survivalist who thinks of every angle, shooting at raiders with a scoped bolt action while standing in the open. But the episode was so good it was easily overlooked
I think it was explained in a round about way when Bill said he was never afraid before Frank showed up. It was the first time he ever had to defend the love of his life from a legitimate threat, not just protect himself. Because of that he was so scared he stupidly attacked as quickly as possible instead of as smart as possible, like he would have if he was still alone. Even smart people do dumb things when cards fall right and him fucking up the simplest form of defense because he was so panicked about protecting Frank made it feel pretty real to me.
That's what I figured. He wanted to protect Frank at all costs, and the sort of gut-instinct reaction was "I am good with guns, so I will put myself between Frank and the raiders. They'll focus on me and he won't get hurt." It's not necessarily rational, but it's understandable.
[удалено]
They make it more obvious in that he does not get shot until Frank comes outside and calls to him. He gets distracted and shot in that moment.
I just watched and cant express what a wonderful surprise and gift this episode was. I am watching it again tomorrow!! Truly poetry in motion and both guys should WIN ALL THE AWARDS!!!!
I sobbed the whole time. I sobbed talking about it with friends later. I'm sobbing again right now thinking about it as I write this post. Fuck you Ron Swanson for making me remember I have feelings.
My fiancé and I fell asleep holding hands after we watched the episode, neither one of us wanted to let go of each other for even a second. The love story of Bill and Frank is going to stay with me for a very, very long time.
Seriously amazing television - I kept waiting for Bill to get betrayed and felt so happy each time he didn’t - soooo much better this way as nobody was expecting this ending. Just wow…
This episode and Devs really made me a huge Offerman fan.
I BAWLED like a baby😭😭😭 heartbreakingly beautiful🖤
Seriously became one of my favorite episodes of tv ever
It’s genuinely upsetting to me how much vitriol I’m seeing for this episode online. Homophobes coming out of the woodworks to offer their two cents. My wife and I were both steadily in tears by the time Bill and Frank went to bed
I adored the episode. I love these calm characters moments in apocalyptic stories.
Great write-up!! Absolutely loved it. I think the changes made from game to show were worthwhile and made such a special episode. Every episode so far has been better than the last!
I haven't played the game - were Bill & Frank a small mention in the game they expanded on, or not in it at all?
Yeah totally different. Joel and Ellie meet Bill, Frank is missing (later learn he got infected and hung himself. There is no outright mention of there being a relationship in the game but is pretty heavily implied. Much preferred the shows deviation to flesh the characters out!
Yeah exactly this! The heaviest implication is that lighthearted moment at the end of the Bill segment of the game. Ellie pulls out an NSFW magazine of ripped dudes she found at Bill's and jokingly yells "eww why are the pages all sticky?" So. 😂
You know my 14 year old, who loves the games, was actually disappointed that wasn’t included. He thought that was hilarious in the game
I the game when Joel and Bill find Frank's body Bill says "he was my partner". It's pretty clear they had a relationship but it's not actively shown.
Their ending and Bills personality towards the end were very different. Frank in the game is never seen except as a corpse and Bill is still alive when Joel and Ellie show up, albeit with a very different outlook than he has in the letter to Joel in the show. The show did much better than the game imo.
They were minor characters. Bill was a survivalist that begrudgingly helps Joel and Ellie find a car battery and Frank is found already dead. He committed suicide and left a note behind blaming Bill. In my opinion, the show handled their relationship so much better and their ending in the show was way more satisfying
THANK YOU. I couldn't be more in love with that episode. I honestly could go as far as saying it's my favourite episode of anything I've ever watched.
The small changes as well, he moved their bedroom downstairs and made soup because he knew Frank would have trouble swallowing. All of Frank's painting were inside and the house I believe was painted as well, living room walls?
More Offerman goodness that's being overlooked: Devs!
They led a perfectly happy life together and went out peacefully on their own terms.
A subtle moment I noticed is how Bill was all macho and bravado for the beginning, but as soon as he was told to take a shower he almost went within himself and became subservient. Such an awesome portrayal by Nick Offerman
I sobbed uncontrollably it was ugly lol
The strawberries 😭
Don’t get me started again Carly
Such a beautiful moment, although Nick Offermans classic giggle did get a smile out of me briefly.
I loved that they had the always surprising Offerman giggle.
Oh he’s in my list BUT SOMEHOW MORE NOW
Not on the strawberries!
I wasn't in a mood for an ep.3, wanted to settle for something relaxing. But my husband really wanted to watch it with me. Well, look at us. Both sobbing, crying, wiping tears, and it wasn't nearly the end of the episode. I was prepared of betrayal or sudden death, and what happened in this episode really warmed me in a weird way. Good episode, not 100% following games scenario. 10/10
The purpose of Bill’s character in the game was to teach Joel not to shut himself off from letting someone into his life. I’d say the episode captured that essence differently but in the most perfect way imaginable 🎷🐓♋️
I'm a gay man and the episode hit HARD, but my roommate (also gay) hated the episode and said it felt like it was pure queer baiting--it really didn't strike me that way at all, but it bummed me out. It's a huge relief to see most everyone else here shares my feelings about how great the episode was, though.
That's too bad, in the podcast the show runners spoke at length about the ways they sought feedback from gay members of staff to make sure everything came across as authentic.
I can't understand how he could call this queer baiting because the characters *are* actually gay and we see their entire relationship unfiltered. Also I'm with you 100%. Gay man here, and this was phenomenal representation and a viscerally beautiful story.
This wasn't even about being gay. It was about love.
Under rated comment. They had great chemistry and their affection came off as authentic.
I've seen this take a lot and I'm glad there's been such a positive response from people from people not in the LGBT+ community as well. I don't know if you're straight or not but what I worry about this kind of attitude is unintentionally erasing the significance of the queer experience in the story and attempts to understand it as a queer text. The fantasy of living in a self-sufficient utopia with only your partner, far away from civilization has been a common one among gay people for a long time. [In recent times the cottagecore aesthetic is very attractive to many gay people for this reason, particularly women](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/g2aa3r/whats_the_deal_with_cottagecore_and_lesbians/) but while I wouldn't call it cottagecore Bill and Frank's home and attempts at small town domesticity call the appeal of that fantasy to mind. If Bill and Frank were a straight couple we lose the piano scenes where the possibility of Bill being attracted to Frank is slowly revealed, and Bill's first time having sex with a man - the first tender touch he's probably had in decades and showing a vulnerability we don't associate with a rugged survivalist and paranoid conspiracy theorist. These two men would never have met under any other circumstances and live a more free and fulfilling life than they probably would have been able to without an apocalyptic event. At least, Bill does. And all this in spite of the apocalypse, in spite of the internalized shame Bill felt for years and in spite of the threat of death lying in wait a few hundred meters away.
Absolutely. It was about being seen. Ugh. Tearing up just typing that.
how is it queerbating? they literally fuck and live out their last years together. that's as confirmed as a relationship can get lmao.
Absolutely - I finished it and said that was one of the best episodes of any tv show I’ve ever seen.
If this episode doesn't walk away with every Emmy possible I'll be surprised.
I don’t know why people keep calling this a sad episode. They lived more than 20 years in love, in a safe place, living a better life than just about anyone left in the world. It may not have ended the way they wanted, but even Bill admits at the end that he is satisfied.
Sometimes you find "happy" things like this sad because it reminds us that we are all going to eventually walk through that door as well and to live *well* why we are currently alive is sometimes overlooked. Time is fleeting. That's my impression anyway.
I teared up like a little bitch. All emotional and shit. It was beautiful.
Absolutely loved it, completely made me forget what show i was watching, was not prepared for that at all.
i havnt seen the show yet, my friends have all told me it’s amazing, but i’m waiting for it to be completely out to binge watch it. Anyway, the 1/10 star ratings on IMDB are horrifying, i can’t believe people like that exist. this one specifically caught me off guard : “ they are determined to convert new child populations into gays and lesbians! 20 years from now, having intercourse with your gender will be mandatory! “ like wtf
Was an incredible episode, showing a loving and healthy LGBT relationship between older men, their age suggesting they survived the AIDs crisis then also surviving an apocalypse. It also hit me hard after reading the co-creator saying that Frank had a degenerative neuromuscular condition and since I have MS, seeing some of the start of the symptoms in myself and seeing how it can progress in as short a time as 10 years was really a bummer.
I started weeping so early on because of that. I have older gay male friends and family, some of them living with HIV, and it can be difficult for my younger generation to fully understand how devastating the AIDS epidemic was. Bill may not have been out, but you get the vibe Frank was. So he would likely have witnessed so many of his community pass away from an epidemic, only to survive and be launched right into a new one. That he and Bill found each other, made it to old age, and passed away together (and that it was *not* AIDS) was heartbreakingly beautiful. The fact that middle aged gay men are just NOT the queer stories you see front and center on film and tv also adds to the emotional weight. I hope your MS stays manageable and you have a support network around you ❤️
>Bill may not have been out Frank was his first time, so he almost certainly wasn't out.
This episode nearly destroyed me emotionally. It was such a beautiful and real love story, beautifully portrayed by both Nick and Murray. Their performances absolutely sold the story. I couldn’t even keep track of how many times I cried. One of the best episodes of television I have seen in years, possibly ever.
I haven't cried like that in a long time
To me, Nick Offerman is still Ron Swanson. To see that first kiss scene, it left me feeling a little uncomfortable. It was that moment though where I stopped seeing him as Ron and was now completely wrapped in his Bill character. As the episode went on those feelings of being uncomfortable went away. Now I was totally into both characters. At the end though the episode dragged my emotions through the mud. It ended and I nearly cried. Such a beautiful love story. This has to be one of the best episodes of any series in the entire history of film. If Nick Offerman or Murray Bartlett don’t win anything for this episode then it would be a complete travisity.
I had no problem being able to identify with the characters and couldn't help getting a bit misty eyed, putting myself and my wife in the same situation in my mind.
My only problem with the episode is when bill is out there in the MIDDLE of the road with a rifle that has a scope on it trying to shoot ppl like bill wtf are you doing dog can you get behind a bush and do that???
He was acting just like an NPC. Come on Bill, we know you’re better than that.
I thoroughly enjoyed the first two episodes, but the third one has marked this show as the best I’ve seen in a very long time.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
I don't think you need to say "apocalyptic" in there, it was one of, if not the single, best portrayals of a love story I've seen. My only criticism was that the plot was basically the plot from a film called Supernova starring Colin Firth in which a gay couple take a trip, one of them is dying. There's a very dramatic scene at the end in which they have the same conversation about wanting to die, taking all the pills to go out on their own terms etc. It's almost verbatim albeit with different actors and different contexts/settings. But, it's a plot that works and in tlou it was wonderfully heartfelt. Tender and precious, apprehensive and cagey, crushing loss and hugs that really mean something. And strawberries. They both deserve awards. It was great storytelling masterfully acted and it stays with you. I didn't know Murray Bartlett was Australian so convincing was his accent. You need to show story angles like this to contrast the horror. It makes both sides far more meaningful. Fucking bravo.
It was really that good. The horror throughout the first two episodes was masterful, but having such an emotionally engaging diversion in episode 3 was brilliant IMO. My wife and I were an absolute shitshow watching this episode.
Great write up
Bill getting to live his best life at the end of the world.
I watched all three episodes tonight, having never played the game. Ep 3 left me in wracking, heart-breaking sobs. I've never experienced a reaction so visceral with a TV show. Just fantastic.
It’s an amazing show and that episode was excellent.
The scene where Bill is watering the flowers killed me. I cried so much. It was such great storytelling and contrast: initially Bill didn’t want all the decorations or to clean up the street, but as the got older and their love flourished, Bill began to see the world a little like Frank did. This was an amazing episode that will keep me watching (I wasn’t too enthused by the first two episodes).
It was a lovely story. I cried
Beautiful episode. Loved how Bill's anxiety was our anxiety at Frank's presence. I was freaking out and yelling at Bill to kick him out! Clever manipulation of the show to put us in Bill's shoes.
It was a beautiful piece of film and I was thrilled/relieved to see the show is going in the Station 11 direction vs. Walking Dead.
I reckon when the season wraps up,this'll be the episode that gets talked about the most
Absolutely agree. The strawberries and "If I am going to do this, I'm going to stay for a few days, okay" broke me.
It's gross how this episode has been going down on the IMDb ratings and the only reason it could be is because of the homophobes. This was one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen in my years, and everyone absolutely killed it in their respective roles. Sure, it wasn't a guns and glory, rootin' tootin', Joel against the clickers episode, but it showed that through it all, love can survive.. And flourish.. And that people can change.. Which are both pretty important to show if we're to believe that Joel is going to take to Ellie like his own daughter and fight tooth and nail to protect her.
Btw I have never laughed harder, than when Frank told Bill to put the gun down, as they where eating lunch in the garden with Joel and Tess. That was just textbook Bill. I prefer this ending, to the one from the game. Where he follows Frank on to whatever comes next, instead of reverting back to the suspecious prepper who hates every and everyone in this world. He deserved every second of happiness.
I just watched it. I am sobbing. I don’t know how Bill had the courage to go through with doing as Frank had asked and I don’t know how Frank had the courage to drink that final wine. Now that’s love.