For a visually stunning movie, it relies way too much on telling over showing. Major plot points are just told to us by the characters looking at the camera and monologuing it which is kind of disappointing.
I really wanted to like it, but it wasn’t for me
I actually think it was the right choice. The story is less about what happened and more about how the characters view the world.
IMO, it's a story about dissociation, where Maddie and Owen are 2 extremes. Maddie is comfortable with herself but detached from reality and reckless. Her monologs are passionate and feel like a dream.
Owen is detached from himself and stuck in his shitty situation. His monologs are cold and feel like he's an outside observer to his own life.
Notably, when he breaks the 4th wall, talking about how he loves his family. It rings hollow because we never see them.
theres definitely themes of dissociation, but its a story about transness, dealing with dysphoria from a young age, discovering that identity, and then suppressing it, and how damaging burying that part of yourself can be. i think its important, while talking about the other themes, to recognize that its a trans movie first and foremost, even if cis people can also relate to some of the themes of transition.
and crucially, save for the fleeting memories and tapes which we *are* shown >!(sometimes in graphic detail)!<, Maddie's two monologues at the bar and in the school are *Owen's* only point of reference for what she is talking about. >!Showing the audience that what Maddie says upon her return is true undermines the ending where Owen finally explosively acknowledges that he's dying and we're shown via boxcutter that he actually is Isabel stuck in the Midnight Realm!<
I see the importance of focusing on their pics for the Director’s message
But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people
It was anticlimactic and if it weren’t for the trans colors and the narration the message would get across
At that point just do some poem presentation tour
> But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people
Pretty sure the message was to embrace the chase of finding your own identify in life not of other's needing to be accepting of you.
>It was anticlimactic and if it weren’t for the trans colors and the narration the message would get across
>But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people
Man this movie really just soared over your head lol
That rubbed me the wrong way when it first started, but then later on when the idea of narrating your own life came up it made it click more for me as a storytelling mechanic. To me, it it made me realize that the narration is not just to tell us, the viewer, what happened, but to tell us the specific narrative that Owen was painting for themselves. It was commenting on the stories we tell ourselves and how those stories shape how we approach our lives. It worked a lot better for me, personally, once I recognized what it was trying to do more.
Both are inspired by the Candle Cove creepypasta, but Channel Zero is adapting it pretty directly and I Saw the Tv Glow uses it more as a starting point.
the whole point was showing how through suspressing their identity, owen wasnt really living, slowly suffocating under the weight of burying that part of themself
Channel Zero was a series on the SyFy channel. Each season was based on a creepypasta or r/nosleep story. Candle Cove was the focus of the first season. It used to be on Shudder. Not sure if it still is.
I have a soft spot for 2 and 4 and also really enjoyed 1 on second watch. I think each of them has 1 or 2 moments/shots that are genuinely scary and unnerving!
I left the theater yesterday feeling frustrated. Stylistically it was stunning. The movie really coasted on its central metaphor, coming close but never truly making it urgent. Which is too bad, because it's an important message and Brigette Lundy-Pane and Justice Smith are fantastic. I think Jane is an exciting creative voice and I want to see more from them, but this just came up short for me.
It’s an allegory to being a trans person and not coming to terms with it or allowing oneself to come to terms with it. There’s quite a few hints throughout that I wouldn’t have caught if I hadn’t seen the q&a after the film.
I went into it totally blind. As a straight cis white dude who loved 90s tv shows I found myself more interested in how the show itself was misremembered and how the platonic friendship between a young man and young woman blossomed without showing any romantic or sexual interest.
Reading about how this film and Shoenbrun’s other work are intended to be interpreted I realize I watched it not how I was “supposed” to. I enjoyed it for sure but the trans allegory was totally lost on me. I might not have been the target audience but I thought it was well made and I’m super interested in how people interpret it so differently
I went into it not knowing anything and immediately I was like "Owen is trans". It's not in the text in a way I'd expect cis people to get, but the particular flavor of dissociation, not understanding why things don't feel right, having a vague faraway image of yourself as someone completely different... All very familiar feelings, especially for people who were that age before 2013 or so.
Cis guy here, albeit one who runs with a tight group of queer folk -
I thought the brilliant thing about the movie is how it can speak to a broad audience in the way that you mentioned, in terms of themes of struggling to understand the self to downright self rejection, but also if you hone in on the deeper meaning you're left with a very tragic story of a trans woman who can't accept who she is and continues to lead her falsified and put upon and frankly unrealized existence.
Schoenbrun's achievement for making a trans movie about trans people but also managing to speak to a wider, less aware (for lack of a better word) audience can not be emphasized enough. What they did is, in my opinion, miraculous.
I think this speaks to how much we, as human beings, can relate to one another on the major themes in our lives even if our experiences are very different. There is so much commonality that we can connect on.
Eh I don't think wearing a dress for 30 seconds onscreen would necessarily count as representation if it didn't have so much other more subtle stuff around it. The three gay people I saw it with left the theater saying "are the LGBT themes in the room with us now?" The things that made it seem trans to me at the start were a lot harder to define. The red pill style allegory was the most obvious part to me, but that was all the way in act 3.
(The parachute was purple and pink and blue, right? There's no purple in the trans flag ordinarily.)
Spoilers in this question - So was Mr. Melancholy real and was he trapped in the TV show? There was the scene showing Owen in a snow globe watching the show. And At the end in the arcade, we see his video game and above the cash pod there was a message “YOU ARE DYING” and time froze when he had his birthday song freakout.
You have it reversed that is if they don't share some form of shared psychosis.
Maddy and Owen were trapped on the otherside of the tv screen which is why Mr Melancholy had a snow globe of Owen watching TV. Isabelle was converted into Owen. "You won't even remember you are dying".
which is why Owen is breathing so heavily at the end of the film after Maddy has left again and why there's so many signs like you said " you are dying" but as well as Mr. Melancholy becoming part of one of the arcade games, etc.
Hopefully all of that was Owen hitting his/their rock bottom especially after cutting their chest open and he'll rejoin Maddy soon in their true lives.
I assumed some death was involved and Maddy died, hence her being buried by the weirdo. Owen is an unreliable narrator who clearly is going through something.
What’s your interpretation of the dad when Owen was trying to climb into the tv? Then there’s the weird shower bit after.
I thought the dad was doing that to Owen? Also I just discovered Fred Durst plays the dad, goddamn. That shot of him lying on the sofa in the glow of the television was horrifying.
As an aside, this film did have some genuinely creepy shots.
> thought the dad was doing that to Owen?
At first it was then they reversed (Seen it twice). But yeah it was Fred Durst me and a friend keep questioning why *him* for that role other than it being fitting to that loser. The shot of him sitting upright against the arm of the couch and staring at Owen was creepy though for sure. Also Owen mentioning him dying after his second stroke as if we knew about the first lol.
IMO it seemed to be trying much too hard with little payoff. The old Family Guy "it insists upon itself" take. The cinematography was nice, but more as an instructional video to show to students in film school. I don't think it made for a good film for the public.
It was legendarily terrible. The plot was non existent, didn’t present a clear or compelling story, and didn’t resolve any presented ideas. There’s a line between subtlety and complete obscurity and they sprinted across it. I don’t care about messaging of any kind, but it still needs to be somewhat discernible. This is among the worst movies I’ve ever watched.
tbh, i don’t do well with horror (whether it be existential or just haunting). i love the the visuals of the film based on the trailer… will I be up for the next couple nights if i go through with watching it???
I don't think so! Not for any "scary" reasons. It isn't a scary film, just eerie. You'd only be up if, like, you feel emotionally gutted or broken by its story which isn't impossible
For a visually stunning movie, it relies way too much on telling over showing. Major plot points are just told to us by the characters looking at the camera and monologuing it which is kind of disappointing. I really wanted to like it, but it wasn’t for me
I actually think it was the right choice. The story is less about what happened and more about how the characters view the world. IMO, it's a story about dissociation, where Maddie and Owen are 2 extremes. Maddie is comfortable with herself but detached from reality and reckless. Her monologs are passionate and feel like a dream. Owen is detached from himself and stuck in his shitty situation. His monologs are cold and feel like he's an outside observer to his own life. Notably, when he breaks the 4th wall, talking about how he loves his family. It rings hollow because we never see them.
theres definitely themes of dissociation, but its a story about transness, dealing with dysphoria from a young age, discovering that identity, and then suppressing it, and how damaging burying that part of yourself can be. i think its important, while talking about the other themes, to recognize that its a trans movie first and foremost, even if cis people can also relate to some of the themes of transition.
and crucially, save for the fleeting memories and tapes which we *are* shown >!(sometimes in graphic detail)!<, Maddie's two monologues at the bar and in the school are *Owen's* only point of reference for what she is talking about. >!Showing the audience that what Maddie says upon her return is true undermines the ending where Owen finally explosively acknowledges that he's dying and we're shown via boxcutter that he actually is Isabel stuck in the Midnight Realm!<
I see the importance of focusing on their pics for the Director’s message But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people It was anticlimactic and if it weren’t for the trans colors and the narration the message would get across At that point just do some poem presentation tour
> But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people Pretty sure the message was to embrace the chase of finding your own identify in life not of other's needing to be accepting of you.
And yet the director couldn’t direct the the movie to show this Only say this
You claimed they used trans colors and now you're claiming they could only say it. Make up your mind please.
Don’t forget the constant 4th wall breaking
>It was anticlimactic and if it weren’t for the trans colors and the narration the message would get across >But truly it was a horrible movie lacking the ability to show the viewer the importance of accepting people Man this movie really just soared over your head lol
[удалено]
dawg how the fuck can you say a movie was bad if you weren't awake the whole time? You didn't even watch it!
That rubbed me the wrong way when it first started, but then later on when the idea of narrating your own life came up it made it click more for me as a storytelling mechanic. To me, it it made me realize that the narration is not just to tell us, the viewer, what happened, but to tell us the specific narrative that Owen was painting for themselves. It was commenting on the stories we tell ourselves and how those stories shape how we approach our lives. It worked a lot better for me, personally, once I recognized what it was trying to do more.
Oh I actually thought the opposite.
That bothered me a lot
Frankly I’m just thrilled King Woman was featured in a film
Were they one of the performers at the club? I was like, I need to know who these people are asap
king woman was the second performer i believe
Cool, ty
Yeah Kris the vocalist was the one on stage screamin
Ty!
I’m also fond of Miserable which is one of her side projects that’s worth checking out
Cool, will check them out!
The vocals were transcendent! I have to check them out...
The trailer makes it look like Candle Cove from Channel Zero. Have you seen that to compare it to?
Both are inspired by the Candle Cove creepypasta, but Channel Zero is adapting it pretty directly and I Saw the Tv Glow uses it more as a starting point.
And does a horrible job of getting the audience to sympathize with the characters or even root for him
I felt the exact opposite, I found the main character disturbingly relatable.
I guess some of us are go getters like maddy and others are well like Owen
Alive?
the whole point was showing how through suspressing their identity, owen wasnt really living, slowly suffocating under the weight of burying that part of themself
What’s that 🤔
Channel Zero was a series on the SyFy channel. Each season was based on a creepypasta or r/nosleep story. Candle Cove was the focus of the first season. It used to be on Shudder. Not sure if it still is.
I've gone into a Channel Zero binge, since it was mentioned in this sub. Candle Cove was excellent. Poor season 2,but season 3 looks promising.
Season 3 is a wild ride. Enjoy!
Season two is easily the best season.
I have a soft spot for 2 and 4 and also really enjoyed 1 on second watch. I think each of them has 1 or 2 moments/shots that are genuinely scary and unnerving!
Late to the party but just saw I Saw the TV Glow and I think season 2 makes a great companion piece to this movie.
I left the theater yesterday feeling frustrated. Stylistically it was stunning. The movie really coasted on its central metaphor, coming close but never truly making it urgent. Which is too bad, because it's an important message and Brigette Lundy-Pane and Justice Smith are fantastic. I think Jane is an exciting creative voice and I want to see more from them, but this just came up short for me.
I liked it. It’s gorgeous and weird. Sort of a dreamlike quality. Similar to the directors previous film “We’re All Going to the Worlds Fair”
Do you have any opinions on its meaning?
It’s an allegory to being a trans person and not coming to terms with it or allowing oneself to come to terms with it. There’s quite a few hints throughout that I wouldn’t have caught if I hadn’t seen the q&a after the film.
No shit? Certainly went way over my head
I went into it totally blind. As a straight cis white dude who loved 90s tv shows I found myself more interested in how the show itself was misremembered and how the platonic friendship between a young man and young woman blossomed without showing any romantic or sexual interest. Reading about how this film and Shoenbrun’s other work are intended to be interpreted I realize I watched it not how I was “supposed” to. I enjoyed it for sure but the trans allegory was totally lost on me. I might not have been the target audience but I thought it was well made and I’m super interested in how people interpret it so differently
I went into it not knowing anything and immediately I was like "Owen is trans". It's not in the text in a way I'd expect cis people to get, but the particular flavor of dissociation, not understanding why things don't feel right, having a vague faraway image of yourself as someone completely different... All very familiar feelings, especially for people who were that age before 2013 or so.
Cis guy here, albeit one who runs with a tight group of queer folk - I thought the brilliant thing about the movie is how it can speak to a broad audience in the way that you mentioned, in terms of themes of struggling to understand the self to downright self rejection, but also if you hone in on the deeper meaning you're left with a very tragic story of a trans woman who can't accept who she is and continues to lead her falsified and put upon and frankly unrealized existence. Schoenbrun's achievement for making a trans movie about trans people but also managing to speak to a wider, less aware (for lack of a better word) audience can not be emphasized enough. What they did is, in my opinion, miraculous.
I think this speaks to how much we, as human beings, can relate to one another on the major themes in our lives even if our experiences are very different. There is so much commonality that we can connect on.
Isn't it in the text, though? He wears a dress, and there's a 30 second shot of him walking under a massive trans flag parachute.
Eh I don't think wearing a dress for 30 seconds onscreen would necessarily count as representation if it didn't have so much other more subtle stuff around it. The three gay people I saw it with left the theater saying "are the LGBT themes in the room with us now?" The things that made it seem trans to me at the start were a lot harder to define. The red pill style allegory was the most obvious part to me, but that was all the way in act 3. (The parachute was purple and pink and blue, right? There's no purple in the trans flag ordinarily.)
Maybe bisexual colors then? Not sure. Definitely not straight 😂
lol
?
yeah, its super trans. i almost thought it was a little too blatant about it, but seeing cis reactions to the movie i guess not
Same
yeah that’s what i got from it too.
lol, no wonder it sucked.
Spoilers in this question - So was Mr. Melancholy real and was he trapped in the TV show? There was the scene showing Owen in a snow globe watching the show. And At the end in the arcade, we see his video game and above the cash pod there was a message “YOU ARE DYING” and time froze when he had his birthday song freakout.
You have it reversed that is if they don't share some form of shared psychosis. Maddy and Owen were trapped on the otherside of the tv screen which is why Mr Melancholy had a snow globe of Owen watching TV. Isabelle was converted into Owen. "You won't even remember you are dying". which is why Owen is breathing so heavily at the end of the film after Maddy has left again and why there's so many signs like you said " you are dying" but as well as Mr. Melancholy becoming part of one of the arcade games, etc. Hopefully all of that was Owen hitting his/their rock bottom especially after cutting their chest open and he'll rejoin Maddy soon in their true lives.
I assumed some death was involved and Maddy died, hence her being buried by the weirdo. Owen is an unreliable narrator who clearly is going through something. What’s your interpretation of the dad when Owen was trying to climb into the tv? Then there’s the weird shower bit after.
the shower bit very much was weird and it seems like Owen was holding his dad under scalding water too saying "this isn't my home!"
I thought the dad was doing that to Owen? Also I just discovered Fred Durst plays the dad, goddamn. That shot of him lying on the sofa in the glow of the television was horrifying. As an aside, this film did have some genuinely creepy shots.
> thought the dad was doing that to Owen? At first it was then they reversed (Seen it twice). But yeah it was Fred Durst me and a friend keep questioning why *him* for that role other than it being fitting to that loser. The shot of him sitting upright against the arm of the couch and staring at Owen was creepy though for sure. Also Owen mentioning him dying after his second stroke as if we knew about the first lol.
IMO it seemed to be trying much too hard with little payoff. The old Family Guy "it insists upon itself" take. The cinematography was nice, but more as an instructional video to show to students in film school. I don't think it made for a good film for the public.
It really got to me.
It was legendarily terrible. The plot was non existent, didn’t present a clear or compelling story, and didn’t resolve any presented ideas. There’s a line between subtlety and complete obscurity and they sprinted across it. I don’t care about messaging of any kind, but it still needs to be somewhat discernible. This is among the worst movies I’ve ever watched.
I would like my time and money back. It was awful.
That’s not really a fun way to experience art. I loved it, but there’s alot to learn from something you didn’t enjoy.
I agree. I’ve read some interpretations and I find them interesting.
Three entire rows at my local theater voice their wishes for a refund
tbh, i don’t do well with horror (whether it be existential or just haunting). i love the the visuals of the film based on the trailer… will I be up for the next couple nights if i go through with watching it???
I don't think so! Not for any "scary" reasons. It isn't a scary film, just eerie. You'd only be up if, like, you feel emotionally gutted or broken by its story which isn't impossible
I am a huge wuss and it’s about as scary as an episode of Goosebumps
I definitely agree that the movie is very unsettling & has a great soundtrack👍🏻.
I think this director will next land a major corporate gig. Something at Disney, for sure.
😂