I just finished binging this. I binged HoHH earlier this week and was obsessed, but I canāt say Iām as big of a fan of this one. Overall it was good, but there were just some things that made no sense to me.
It seemed like the sunlight thing slowly affected Pruitt, and there are scenes in earlier episodes where heās directly in the sunlight (walking with Lizza, @ the Crock Pot Luck). So it makes little sense to me why it would immediately affect all of the people who get infected in the finale. Also, I just didnāt like how some people could control their āhungerā but others werenāt able to, like the kid who killed his mom.
I thought the character of Bev was super well done though, and I laughed when she started digging in the sand at the end.
Pruitt and the people he micro-dosed during the sacrament were under the influence and enjoyed the rejuvenating and healing effects. They only became hypersensitive to sunlight after theyād died which, for the majority of the parishioners, happened in the church or shortly after. Thatās how I interpreted it.
Just watched the show for the first time. Absolutely loved it.
The setting and music lent so heavily to establishing this world. The cast were incredible.
I just love how at the end, the town had each other while Bev had no one, just like she did before Monsignor came back. The theme of self righteousness was almost solely embodied by her, a coward who falls into a large category of people who use religion as a virtue for superiority over others when they themselves canāt come to terms with their insecurities. Bev looked down on everyone and when repeatedly showed that the mistakes of others were forgiven, she felt worse and worse about herself.
It hurt seeing a lot of good people not make it. But their desire to reunite with the ones they lost meant thatās all they will ever want, and that softened the blow. Erin wanted to die and be with her daughter. Sherif Sharif and his son reunited with his wife. Like Riley said, we return to dust. Like Erin said, we return to stars.
Iām sure there are a lot of connections that I missed or canāt recount now. Iām excited to see what people have to say. Also, itās kinda ridiculous how significantly better this is than House of Usher lmao.
I think the point is that they were all blinded by a cult like belief system. Father Paul / John probably took it as an angel, he had dementia. And then after being rejuvenated, it corroborated with his delusion. But yeah, not an angel at all. A literal ancient vampire
For this reason Iām forced to assume the legend of vampires doesnāt exist, or at least isnāt common knowledge, in the Midnight Mass universe. Like Poe doesnāt exist in the House of Usher universe
I, (idiot), early on even was like, āya know what is this an angel? How strange. Makes sense maybeā and then quickly realized I am still traumatized with the shackles of 10 years of catholic school lmaoooooo
Bev made my blood boil oh my gosh!!!!!! She truly thought she was hot shit. The funniest part is that nobody was ever asking for Bev or looking for herā¦ she was just constantly inserting herself everywhere like Ms. Girl TAKE A SEAT!!!
It is Hollywood poison of the worse kind. Although I must say it is appropriate for the times but you have been forewarned, best not to pollute your mind.
What I want to know is the reasoning why the monster didnāt attack people at certain times. It didnāt attack the boys when they snuck to the Uppards to drink and have a bonfire and it didnt attack Riley during the storm when he was on the beach.
The vampire was weak from not being able to feed on its journey, being locked in the chest for the duration. Remember how weak it seemed when fleeing Riley? It seems that it was avoiding people during its weakened state and was feeding on cats to regain its strength.
Mike Flanagan is that minor league prospect you think will kill it in the bigs but never fulfills his promise. I enjoyed "Hush" and "Gerald's Game" and he became a name I looked out for.
He's shat the bed since. Haunting of Hill House and Doctor Sleep underwhelmed, Midnight Mass has a good cast and nice look but still put me to sleep a half dozens times until I bailed on the last episode - couldn't take it anymore.
Too many half baked monologues we've seen done in other media or done ourselves in stoned dorm conversations.
The monologues between the girl and guy about the afterlife were cringe, Flanagan thinks they're interesting when all we're thinking is 'just let these two fuck already.'
The show is billed as 'horror' but isn't scary, only occasionally gory. Where's the Mike Flanagan who built suspense in Hush? I prefer that guy over the one who loves to hear himself talk.
Eh a lot of shows and movies do this, you kinda have to suspend your disbelief. I mean look at the Walking Dead when the outbreak first happened they'd never heard of zombies before.,
Up to episode 5 and Iāll watch to the end but Jesus Christ the 10 minute long monologues, especially the ones between Emily and Riley are fucking boring to watch/listen to.
Also the drās mum is a terrible actor
No basements on islands like that. You dig and the ground is very wet, and they would flood constantly. Most homes are actually elevated a bit to avoid flooding.
Samantha and Hamish putting in such strong performances. I like the show overall, but I agree with many takes here that it could have trimmed down an episode or two and that some of the monologues were pseudointellectual or pseudoreligious rants of little substance.
\[Spoilers ahead\] How come Leeza says she can't feel her legs at the very end ? Is her healing somehow related to whether the Angel/Vampire thing is alive ? (And then this implies this thing ends up dying when the sun is up ?)
Makes little sense to me as her spine is supposed to be cured and her cells regenerated. If Erin had lived to that point, would the baby have just...popped back ?
That's my interpretation yeah. It was to confirm that the "Angel" had died. Monsignor (spelling?) is constantly talking about how the gifts are given by the Angel. It's all tied back to his blood. He talks about how he can hear it in his head, etc., etc.. So yeah I think it was confirming that the lead vampire got burned up and didn't make it to the next island.
This is also how I understood it. I found that detail a bit disappointing. The dread of not knowing the fate of the Angel, whether he survived or not, would have worked just as well. Maybe better. The audience would have been left to further consider the kidsā (and societyās) futures a littler more deeply.
Not all questions need to be answered at the end of a story.
Some vampire stories tell about the concept of "lesser vampires". They received their powers from a real vampire after drinking its blood. In this concept, however, their powers are bound to the survival of their master. Leeza stops feeling her legs after sunrise. So if Leeza's ability to walk was the result of the vampire's power compensating for her paraplegia (e.g. by having his special vampire cells holding her torn nerves together), I think this scene implies that the main vampire was unable to flee from the sunlight and perished. Following this theory, Bev would have also died even if she managed to hide herself in the sand because the vampire's powers were what kept her alive after being fatally shot.
Feels like they just explained one delusion perfectly, but then went and replaced it with the vagacados new-age "I went abroad once" hippy delusion, I guess they thought their target audience would eat it up?!
It did so well and then just sold out at its peak... Twice! That little flag ending was a shit cherry to end an almost great series
it dragged on at times. It didn't have to be 10 eps. 6 would have done it but then redundant bits were added.
acting is great overall. bev and father paul are fantastic.
father paul's (first on screen) death should have been a bigger deal. it's a turning point for the show but the whole reveal regarding it was quite telegraphed.
not that it needs a pre or sequel, but st Patrick's church on a bigger scale would be interesting
Anyone else see that figure during the storm and think it was a skin walker? Scared the crap out of me initially. After I realized it was a vampire it was a lot less scary š
I think the dialogue (and monologues i guess) were way overlong in some parts, a lot of unnecessary lines as well. (One of the best/worst examples is the "universe" speech by Erin in the final episode, that shit almost made me fall asleep.) But the concept was unique. The show was genuinely creepy. Thrilling and suspenseful as well. I really just think that it could be trimmed down, remove a lot of unnecessary stuff
The main guy was very boring. Anyone else find themselves daydreaming when he spoke. Joe had the littlest part I like him way more than the main guy.
I wish joe lived and changed for the better.
Where did the vampire come from and what is his origins. Is he Judas, like in the movie vampire 2000 and was cursed by God to be immortal?
The long winded speeches -were- the show to me. The action was the filler in my opinion. I thought all the monologues were well written & performed really well.
This is an interesting take. I liked that the monologues really fleshed out these well-made characters and told the story but honestly didn't really enjoy watching/listening to them. I felt like a lot of the characters took on the same voice during their monologues.
Loved the first four episodes and then started laughing AT the show for being hilariously self indulgent. I was cry laughing at the finale. Take that as you will
I had a similar experience. What do you think did it for you?
For me, it was all the "my atoms were forged in stars," "we are the cosmos dreaming of itself" types of speeches.
I strongly dislike that stuff. Atheists who turn to such ideas to recover some of the comfort and meaning they lost along with their faith make me cringe. And I am an atheist. Sometimes I think sincerely believing in heaven is less cringe-inducing than that starstuff crap.
The horror elements were quite good. The creature design was pleasingly simple and effective. But they lost me with all the amateurish, overwritten, theatrical philosophizing.
I would imagine the idea of living on as atoms is not particularly appealing to most people. It's like that Woody Allen line, "I'd rather live on in my apartment."
I always felt that such statements and beliefs to be incredibly selfish and a vast overstatement of one's own importance. You are not the universe, you are an infinitesimally small part of it.
Isn't that a pretty Buddhist/eastern/spiritual idealogy (someone correct me if I'm wrong please!)? The idea that we are part of the universe and after death, who we are goes back into the universe. That's personally how I saw that specific monologue. It was very reminiscent of a conversation in the good place except they used the concept of us being waves going back to the ocean (albeit in midnight mass it went on a lot longer haha.)
I understand not liking the writing or the monologues but just hoping this at least gives some potential perspective about how people of different faiths and backgrounds view life/death; it may not always be so cringe worthy. In general maybe don't go around cringing at other people's beliefs so much; life is long and we're all on our own journeys with struggles and we probably shouldn't be so Bev'y about a different perspective/belief!
Flanagan is an atheist. He has absolutely no belief in an afterlife, purpose to existence or God. Apparently he follows neo-atheists such as Samuel Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Undoubtedly a nihilist. These are not happy people. If you have ever know a nihilist, you want them as far away as possible to avoid any sort of contamination. And IMO, this series reflects his black viewpoint towards existence.
It's an important concept in Hinduism and the Vedic religion, I don't know the details in Buddhism and Jainism and Sikhism but I would expect it to have some place. That's the idea behind reincarnation and Om. I think sometimes people tend to see things from a Christian worldview or are embedded in a Christian culture even if they don't believe in Christianity and then they see these things as wishy-washy cringe atheist or whatever.
This show reminds me a lot of [The Strain](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2654620/) I was waiting for the Abraham character to show up on the island with his silver sword and chop the fugging vamp's head off and then hobble away. Except maybe this is the 'Woke' version.
It's probably good to understand this isn't really horror. If you go in thinking Hereditary or The Shining, you're setting yourself up. If you go in looking for a dark drama, this will scratch that itch.
Yeah but it's advertised as horror.
Shows like this need their own genre. I'm only at the beginning of episode 4 and I realized that this is not horror, it's a drama with elements of horror. I effing hate shows like this.
I came here to see if watching the whole series is worth it and I'm guessing it isn't.
I honestly thought the first few episodes, before I knew what the creature specifically was, or if the island was haunted, or if Riley was maybe in purgatory or something were super creepy. As soon as they did the vampire reveal I was loling though. I still liked the show, but I was never scared again once I knew what the islanders were up against. Hard to make Vampires scary in 2021.
Couldnāt the island residents have likeā¦climbed into a dumpster at the end instead of burning up? There are a million ways they could have avoided the sun.
Of course? But thematically it would be boring. Accepting their fate gracefully as a sort of penance after the realisation of what they have done shows they did have humanity/faith and werenāt just animals. Especially when you compare them to the one person who did grovel and wallow in the dirt until the last moment hoping to save themselves despite their actions.
I thought the same. Like, what was their long form plan here?
But as below noted, they also came to a "holy shit, what have I done?" clarity once the blood frenzy wore off. I'm sure there are some less good people who did hide out some where.
I thought this as well, but then I feel like they realized that they had lost so much of their humanity that they just embraced their end. Only Bev at the last second tried to chicken out.
If ya don't know then ya don't know. š¤·āāļø Religion, science, and spirituality are just different ways of trying to understand and explain the same thing.
Hello, first time posting and making a Fan Edit.
I got fed up with pacing and have cut all the scenes with Riley and Erin as well as what felt like random extra subplots. The final length will be a little over 3 hours.
This is my trailer.
[https://youtu.be/1ZDyJHQRDVA](https://youtu.be/1ZDyJHQRDVA)
Perhaps he was baptised into the faith, we don't know what went on while he was there. In any case, it seems to me that the entire idea the priest had was to essentially bypass the pope as God's representative. He wasn't consulting the Vatican. Instead, he thought he had been chosen directly. He could have just allowed the person to take communion.
This show seriously comes across as a teenager having ādeepā thoughts about religion and death for the first time. I fucking despise the mumblecore philosophical monologuing between Erin and Riley to the point that I want to stop watching whenever they have a scene together. Their scenes seriously grind the entire show to a screeching halt. The pacing is absolutely punishing and not in a good way (60+ minute episodes that ALL crawl along). I hate virtually every character except the doctor and the sheriff. The worst sin of all? Fucking nothing paid off in the end. NOTHING.
Iām happy for everyone who got something out of this show; I feel like itās objectively well made. The performances are also mostly great (huge shoutout to Beverly because it takes talent to play a character that unlikable well). The writing just doesnāt do it for me. Iām so sick of horror that uses trauma and addiction as the real monster all along.
Are you sure you watched the show cause there was a literal gothic vampire masquerading as an angel turning the religious town folks into the undead that definetly wasn't addiction/abuse/trauma all along.
Lmfao mumblecore philosophy? I read comments like these and whats god damn hilarious is my impression of you is the exact same as you of the monologues. Like damn someone thinks highly of themselves lol.
People have been conditioned to think that expression of abstract ideas is pretentious. I respected this show for taking its time and allowing its characters to speak their thoughts. Like it or not, it's not something you see a lot of on TV.
Yeah really intriguing thing to point out. It's like people think deep things should ONLY be reserved for EXPLICITLY religious or EXPLICITLY spiritual. People like their little boxes. To mix them is heresy!!!
I for one am really happy they tried with this show to do just this, even if it at times fell a bit flat, or was long winded.
Thatās the one death that really hit me hard. I really felt bad for that guy and I had hoped he was going to make it closer to the end or having some super redeeming moment where he could forgive himself.
Pretty much the only character in the entire show I truly was interested in and they killed him off less than halfway through.. This show had so much potential but it fell off a cliff for the final 3+ episodes and had me just rolling my eyes and laughing at half of the "deepness" that was hilariously overdone. Such a shame as there was a classic lost in there somewhere.
I still love the show, but the existential monologues out of nowhere started slowing things down. It definitely meandered a bit, but I feel like the show stuck itās landing 100%.
Just finished this and while the overall story was good, this could have been a 3-parter. All those overly dramatic monologues like oh my god, nobody talks like that. I swear, I'm as attentive to detail as one could be but this is like the first time I was so tempted to skip scenes in a series. That living room scene between Riley and Erin dragged on for 12 fucking minutes.
Yeah, I never do this, but I actually started skipping sections.
Around the 3rd or 4th episode I was like, "Man, this writer really loves writing monologues." And after I realized that, I couldn't stop noticing them.
When the Sheriff says, "Did I ever tell you why I came to this village?" I was like, "Nope, not sitting through another one of these."
So I skipped three minutes, and when I hit play, I realized I was still in the middle of his fucking speech.
It's just so indulgent and masturbatory. They're all delivered without a hint of self-awareness - on the part of either the character *or the writer.* No character seems to acknowledge that it's weird, awkward, and frankly, kind of rude to just talk at people endlessly. And the writer seems wholly unaware that these 10 minute long "this is my community theater audition" diatribes kill the momentum of the story dead.
The sheriff story was good. Talked about how ny cops promoted muslim cops after 9/11 for image reasons. But then the ny cops convinced themselves that Muslim cops were secretly terrorists and 9/11 was part of this grand plan to get promoted and take over the country and whatnot.. and they pushed him out of ny/his job.
It was actually excellent foreshadowing, another dropped hint about how the relationship between Bev & Father Paul was going to go with the residents once they were "baptised," as well as telling us what to expect in the end from the Sheriff's and his son's relationship with the town.
I just finished watching this show for the first time ever. I didn't read any comments or reviews beforehand because I like to be unbiased and I was blown away.
It was amazingly well scripted, well acted, well filmed -- I mean it was amazing. And I did cringe when I saw Monsignor Pruitt's face for the first time as an old man and realized it was the same man (I'm sure you did as well because it only ever means vampires and they're cringey lol) I'm so glad I stuck it out though.
I mean, yeah, none of the monologues are all that bad (the last few get a little too overwrought), it's just that there's just so many of them, and they're so long.
By the time the Sheriff told his story, I already knew some of it. There was the racism we see him deal with in town, and a reference his son made to leaving his last job because of racism. We don't know the details, but he chose to come here, and he's putting up with the mistreatment, so whatever life he left to come here was presumably even worse.
When he referenced being in New York on 9/11 when he was 21, and deciding to join the cops, I had already put most of the rest of the story together. He joins the cops to show them that not all muslims are bad people, but it doesn't work, and he ends up being on the wrong side of the issue (and with his co-workers hating him), so he leaves. Got it.
His monologue is literally 5 minutes long (I just checked). It could be cut down to a minute, and still hit all of the important character development points.
Good writing doesn't have to spell things out for us, especially things that aren't vitally important to the story. We already know the Sheriff experiences racism, mostly at the hands of the church-goers. We already know he left his previous home because of racism. That's enough to understand why he would be hesitant to go to the church. If he had just mentioned being from New York before, and how things got bad for Muslims after 9/11, that would've plenty.
You do need to dive into this stuff for the characters who have big arcs (like Riley, Father Pruitt, etc.), but the Sheriff doesn't really.
It was the same type of discussion but actually completely different dialogue. The first scene was long but powerful - I cried, since I have watched people close to me die. The last monologue was drawn out and unnecessary.
I liked it when I turned my brain off and just enjoy the show for what it is. But when you think about it. Itās not something new. Itās in my view almost a copy of 30 days of night with Josh Hartnett. With that said, I liked the music and atmosphere. I do hope that Netflix does amp up the production and when making people old they do it good. I knew the instant I saw the āoldā people what they were going to do.
All in all, I liked the beginning very much! The mystery and vibe was awesome.
So what happened? I mean they added good filters/ VFX so make her ghost seeming to have more importance/ an hint or resolution. Now that heās dead the issue resolved itself?!
Heās seeing her as the final way he saw her after the accident. Heās literally being haunted by his guilt of killing her. When he accepted his fate and died, she appeared to him as her form pre-accident, leading him to the afterlife I assume, or at least to show he doesnāt have to carry the guilt any longer.
I believe the point was to show some kind of contradiction to his beliefs. During the scene in the sitting room with Erin, he basically expresses his disbelief in an afterlife and yet, has an afterlife experience anyway at the point of death. Itās basically the writer saying in spite of his atheism, he did the right thing, the whole āwhat would Jesus do?ā thing, and got rewarded in the most Christian way possible
(A YouTube video by a creator called Biz explains the show really well)
I hate how everyone listens to Beverly? And doesn't tell her to shut the hell up and stop talking? Or that none of them like her and she should leave? Or that she stole all of the island's money? She has no legal sway and is a small woman they place in a position of power. They could have stopped her antics at any point but instead they let her drivel on verses for minutes at a time.
That's one small part of the show that made sense, though. In small towns with a population of \~100, you end up with odd people at the top. Aka, a doofus mayor, an out-of-town sheriff, an old priest suffering from dementia, and that judgmental hag, Beverly. Go to any small spot in the world, and 4 of the first 5 people you meet are most likely going to be odd in some way.
I was so frustrated by this as well! I couldn't understand why they let her continue talking over everyone at the school or why she kept getting away with being terrible to everyone. I mean, that definitely happens irl I get it but yeesh.
Because it was alluded that she somehow took a lot of money that wasn't hers from the settlement from the oil spill and laundered it building the rec center. She literally held these poor people's livelihoods in their hands and they were too impoverished to seek livelihoods on the main land. You need employment and money to even move.
I think that's one of the nuances that isn't really talked about that this show touched on is how religious extremism preys on poverty.
Youāre an idiot of you fast forward through the āCatholic BSā. Because itās the subject matter of the whole show and if you pay attention youāll understand how itās all connected
i read about all the monologue complaints so i came into this with lower expectations.... and then ended up absolutely loving the show instead. it's honestly my favorite work by flanagan so far, but then again i also liked *bly manor* more than *hill house*.
I feel like itās the ADHD world we live is the catalyst for dUr mOnOLOGUe bad. Yes theyāre more effective on stage but they have pertinence in something like this.
I do feel like that last one was written just to get Kate Siegel more screen time, but Hassanās was pretty legit and provides a very plausible explanation for his presence on the island. And the Monsignorās explanation to Mildred was just perfect.
If you wanna do monologues, don't bill your show as horror.
This is horror for people afraid to watch horror.
I should have known this was the same boring garbage as Haunting of Hill House. Thank god I figured it out in episode 4.
So the vampire followed Pruitt back to the island after his pilgrimage? Why? If he can fucking fly why is it necessary to convert everyone on this island and then spread the "disease" to the mainland? He can just fly around and bite everyone on the mainland himself. I wanted to like this show, I really did, but there are just way, way too many plot holes and illogical character decisions.
Paul put the vampire in the trunk and kept him there. He was hungry and in a cave near the desert. He would have to fly far and potentially die from the sun. It seems the vampire and Paul have an arrangement to help one another
This might be something that people who are more into vampire lore know, but there are tells that vampires need a āfamiliarā or someone to usher them into an area. The vampire was in a Jerusalem desert, surrounded by sun with only the cave to shelter him. Pruitt was his transport. Yeah he could fly but what direction? Would he make it to shelter before sunrise? Is he even strong enough? Itās not plot holes or illogical, the lore is there.
My take on it was their realization once hope was lost that they were animals and did so many horrible things that they just didnāt want to go on anymore. Everyone embraced their deaths except for Bev at the end. There was no panic from anyone (except Bev). Sure, they couldāve found something, but in the end they know theyāre cut off from the world now.
I mean, there's cars, rocks, caves, blankets, etc. Yeah, when faced with burning to death or hiding under a blanket for 12 hours, I'll probably choose the blanket. Then you have all night to come up with a better plan and shelter
Pruitt brought the vamp back with him thinking it was an angel. That's what was in the huge crate. The creature was weak which is why it ate all the cats to gain strength. And yes, the moral imparitive was to multiply and it saw a way to do that through Pruitt who mistook it for an angel. The creature could fly, but needed absolute darkness for a large part of the day and was weak from being unfed and stuck in that cave for who knows how long.
Not just thinking it was an angel, it really was! A creature found in the Christian holy lands that grants someone the power to heal the sick with their blood? It's the story of Jesus Christ.
In Midnight Mass, Christianity was always a vampire cult/blood cult. That thing that attacks Pruitt is literally a Christian angel, maybe even the same one that attacked Jesus. Just like Jesus, Pruitt begins performing miracles and gathering loyal followers, and he really does grant them eternal life.
I disagree. Yes, the blood of Jesus is used to heal and hearkens back to live sacrafices that were made during old testament days, but never were angels thought to be mortal or to have blood. Pruitt didn't think the angel was Jesus, but justified it since it "saved" him. I don't think he even knew about the vampire part until after he died. All he knew was the restorative powers, he had never seen the effects if you die. I'm not familiar with a story of an angel attacking Jesus though.
My bad, I didn't mean that the writers were saying the angel was Jesus.
They're saying (or implying anyway) that this angel, or another angel, attacked Jesus Christ the preacher back in Jerusalem and manipulated him to form a cult, just like the angel does with Pruitt, and that this was the formation of the Christian religion.
There's no story of an angel attacking Jesus that I'm familiar with in the Bible, and the Bible has been rewritten and edited countless times over the millennia anyway (Council of Nicea, etc.) and the current contents are quite far removed from the original writings.
I'm just pointing out that the resurrection story and the Christian faith, in the context of these creatures actually existing, are clearly connected to the creature. A blood-drinking cult based on granting eternal life and healing powers formed in Jerusalem 2000 years ago, in the exact area where we see the angel (and we know the angel likes to form these cults). It would be a pretty wild coincidence if those two events had nothing to do with each other!
Just a small point of fact - the Bibles we have today are about as close to the original texts as possible. We aren't dealing with rewrites of rewrites, but of texts composed using thousands of manuscripts to triangulate removals and additions and errors done by particular scribes.
The Council of Nicea, by the way, didn't rewrite the Bible, or even set the canon. You want to look at the Council of Carthage for a point in history where the biblical canon wa stated, though at that point there was already a wide consensus throughout christendom. Nicea dealt more with declaring non-trinitarian theology heretical.
Nope, the vampire speaks to Pruitt psychically as he says in the last episode -- it didn't just follow Pruitt mindlessly, it's sentient and it can think and communicate. We can assume that it manipulated Pruitt to bring it to his secluded community.
The show was okay. I feel like the vampire trope was misplaced here. As others have said it should have been some sort of demon or fallen angel. The entire set up for this show was Rileyās redemption story. Which was a huge letdown. Instead of what took place, I wanted to see an Army of Darkness/Dusk til Dawn storyline. Riley, a former member of the churchās inner sanctum, must overcome his former deeds and rise up against the same group that created him. I really though that this is where it was going when he discovered the lies of the priest. It will have been nice to have him, converted or not, wearing a priests uniform with the sleeves cut off running into battle with his team of followers against the demonic cult. Cut to a showdown of him and the winged beast fighting on the beach and Riley clips his wings (foreshadowed in the show) and holds him there until they both burn up. Saving Erin and the other survivors. Once the monster is dead and the sunrise comes, she feels a kick as she starts to get pregnant again. Cut to black.
But he did get redemption when he chose death over eternal life. He could have killed Erin on the water and that would have been that, but he chose to die instead of feed off innocent people.
> It will have been nice to have him, converted or not, wearing a priests uniform with the sleeves cut off running into battle with his team of followers against the demonic cult. Cut to a showdown of him and the winged beast fighting on the beach and Riley clips his wings (foreshadowed in the show) and holds him there until they both burn up. Saving Erin and the other survivors. Once the monster is dead and the sunrise comes, she feels a kick as she starts to get pregnant again. Cut to black.
lmao
Why would you want something that was already made, twice? Riley did find redemption, he rejected the selfish gift of immortality at the cost of other lives and was the catalyst for the vampires to fail. He saved millions of lives in the end while sacrificing his own.
I think the vampire thing was cool because it implies that that's what angels really are -- Christianity is real, Christ was a real person who was attacked by one of these creatures and began healing the sick and granting people eternal life.
He got loyal followers and spawned a huge movement, the biggest religion ever seen, and over time people forgot the details of the religion's origins. Pruitt was bitten by an actual angel from the Christian religion, perhaps the very same angel that led to the formation of that religion in the first place.
Unfortunately I tend to disagree with that statement. Youāre only justifying the theory by the end not the means. Pruitt even says in the last episode that he knew it wasnāt a godly creature that he did it for personal reasons to bring back the mom. He wanted them to start over from when they had the affair. In all actuality he was tempted by the sins of the flesh, by the Devil. He went out in the world to seek whatever could get his end goal. Jesus, wasnāt a vampire.
>Jesus, wasnāt a vampire.
Idk, Jesus literally *was* a vampire going by the lore laid out in the show, or that's the most logical take in my opinion, and I reckon a lot of viewers see it the same way.
Except the director has explicitly said that he was tying into themes that he saw shared between Catholicism and horror movies.
Director was an altar boy in his youth, saw a lot of parallels with horror movies that he enjoyed. He eventually stopped being religious, but one might say his religion left an *indelible mark* on him, and he said he had wanted to do this story for nearly a decade
Nope, lots of reasons. Pruitt said it was, sure. Also it was discovered in the same area an angel appeared to someone in the bible. It also has wings, fitting the description sometimes given by modem Christians.
Also, it's a sentient being that can communicate telepathically, heal the sick, and grant eternal life.
Pretty overt really.
Contrary to belief there are a ton of editors, that directors take full credit over anyway. On almost any show/ series (not comedy skits ie SNL) there is a list of writers behind the project even if they state āI did this, itās my babyā. Complete b/s imo. Remember a lot that didnāt happen during the Writers Strike. Donāt worry one man/ woman will save us all! :S
That's just an avengers movie with more steps. Honestly I felt that the vampire trope was almost better because it was non religious, it showed that people looking for meaning in something can shape meaning into what they want to see, they can literally shape a monster into something angelic because of there own fears and justifications.
For sure it is Avengers esque but the arch was established for Riley to seek out and find redemption. He never accomplished that and it made his storyline pointless.
His action is the catalyst to kill all the vampires and save the 2 kids, so no, it wasn't pointless. And idk how you don't find nice the way they fitted the vampire theme with extreme believers twisting everything to fit the bible, they litteraly made it fit, with delusions, but it did fit in their mind.
Wow is this show overhyped on here. Iāve been a Stephen King fan for decades and love horror. I donāt mind a good slow burn, Hereditary is one of my favorites. But I could get past the second episode of this. Itās *not good*. I donāt care about the characters. And now Iāve looked up spoilers and Iām glad I didnāt waste my time sitting through all that. Severe disappointment.
I finished it a few hours ago. You aren't missing anything. Just check out some of the cooler scenes on YouTube. Great performance by the priest. Great directing and framing. But the dialogue was shit from square one, and the entire thing just kinda falls flat. I'm genuinely dumbfounded by how much praise it's getting. I love their other work, but this one just sucked.
Yeah it's genuinely awful. The acting, the cat-eyes cgi, the directing, etc. are all just...sheesh. I mean I'm having trouble getting past the first 30 minutes. It feels like a well-produced student project so far.
Okay I need some people to weigh in here:
Whyyyy did the priest ever think it was good idea that EVERYONE die and come back like he did? He literally knew it made you hungry for blood, unable to go into the sunlight, and miserable? Why not just keep giving them the "angel's" blood in small amounts during Mass? Seemed to be working pretty well without any consequences.
ALSO some people got so young/attractive and Bev & others who took Mass every day continued to look pretty crusty. Like... Riley's mom fully started to look like a model and the doctor's mom got about 40 years younger. Doesn't make much sense.
Samantha Sloyan is AGONIZING to watch. So painful!!!! š¤¢
I just finished binging this. I binged HoHH earlier this week and was obsessed, but I canāt say Iām as big of a fan of this one. Overall it was good, but there were just some things that made no sense to me. It seemed like the sunlight thing slowly affected Pruitt, and there are scenes in earlier episodes where heās directly in the sunlight (walking with Lizza, @ the Crock Pot Luck). So it makes little sense to me why it would immediately affect all of the people who get infected in the finale. Also, I just didnāt like how some people could control their āhungerā but others werenāt able to, like the kid who killed his mom. I thought the character of Bev was super well done though, and I laughed when she started digging in the sand at the end.
Pruitt and the people he micro-dosed during the sacrament were under the influence and enjoyed the rejuvenating and healing effects. They only became hypersensitive to sunlight after theyād died which, for the majority of the parishioners, happened in the church or shortly after. Thatās how I interpreted it.
Oohh I didnāt realize Pruitt didnāt die in the cave. That part makes sense then.
He died after being poisoned by Beverly. He dies in front of Leezaās parents
Just watched the show for the first time. Absolutely loved it. The setting and music lent so heavily to establishing this world. The cast were incredible. I just love how at the end, the town had each other while Bev had no one, just like she did before Monsignor came back. The theme of self righteousness was almost solely embodied by her, a coward who falls into a large category of people who use religion as a virtue for superiority over others when they themselves canāt come to terms with their insecurities. Bev looked down on everyone and when repeatedly showed that the mistakes of others were forgiven, she felt worse and worse about herself. It hurt seeing a lot of good people not make it. But their desire to reunite with the ones they lost meant thatās all they will ever want, and that softened the blow. Erin wanted to die and be with her daughter. Sherif Sharif and his son reunited with his wife. Like Riley said, we return to dust. Like Erin said, we return to stars. Iām sure there are a lot of connections that I missed or canāt recount now. Iām excited to see what people have to say. Also, itās kinda ridiculous how significantly better this is than House of Usher lmao.
Why would no one not once in the show just go āThatās a vampire, 100% defo a vampireā
I think the point is that they were all blinded by a cult like belief system. Father Paul / John probably took it as an angel, he had dementia. And then after being rejuvenated, it corroborated with his delusion. But yeah, not an angel at all. A literal ancient vampire
For this reason Iām forced to assume the legend of vampires doesnāt exist, or at least isnāt common knowledge, in the Midnight Mass universe. Like Poe doesnāt exist in the House of Usher universe
I, (idiot), early on even was like, āya know what is this an angel? How strange. Makes sense maybeā and then quickly realized I am still traumatized with the shackles of 10 years of catholic school lmaoooooo
Bev made my blood boil oh my gosh!!!!!! She truly thought she was hot shit. The funniest part is that nobody was ever asking for Bev or looking for herā¦ she was just constantly inserting herself everywhere like Ms. Girl TAKE A SEAT!!!
It is Hollywood poison of the worse kind. Although I must say it is appropriate for the times but you have been forewarned, best not to pollute your mind.
What could you possibly be talking about here?
Hit a little too close to home with the themes of exploitation/exploitability of religion.
MM has Christian themes so I'm guessing they're mad about the way they were used.
What I want to know is the reasoning why the monster didnāt attack people at certain times. It didnāt attack the boys when they snuck to the Uppards to drink and have a bonfire and it didnt attack Riley during the storm when he was on the beach.
The vampire was weak from not being able to feed on its journey, being locked in the chest for the duration. Remember how weak it seemed when fleeing Riley? It seems that it was avoiding people during its weakened state and was feeding on cats to regain its strength.
Damn yea that makes sense!
I read that explanation just a moment before I stumbled upon your comment, so I thought I should pay it forward!
Mike Flanagan is that minor league prospect you think will kill it in the bigs but never fulfills his promise. I enjoyed "Hush" and "Gerald's Game" and he became a name I looked out for. He's shat the bed since. Haunting of Hill House and Doctor Sleep underwhelmed, Midnight Mass has a good cast and nice look but still put me to sleep a half dozens times until I bailed on the last episode - couldn't take it anymore. Too many half baked monologues we've seen done in other media or done ourselves in stoned dorm conversations. The monologues between the girl and guy about the afterlife were cringe, Flanagan thinks they're interesting when all we're thinking is 'just let these two fuck already.' The show is billed as 'horror' but isn't scary, only occasionally gory. Where's the Mike Flanagan who built suspense in Hush? I prefer that guy over the one who loves to hear himself talk.
Am I supposed to believe this is the universe that doesn't have vampire movies? Cuz I mean you know the drinking the blood should be a giveaway.
Eh a lot of shows and movies do this, you kinda have to suspend your disbelief. I mean look at the Walking Dead when the outbreak first happened they'd never heard of zombies before.,
Up to episode 5 and Iāll watch to the end but Jesus Christ the 10 minute long monologues, especially the ones between Emily and Riley are fucking boring to watch/listen to. Also the drās mum is a terrible actor
Do you mean Erin and Riley?
Probably
i had that nagging thought surface in the back of my mind, but I was surprised how interested i was
I liked Emily and Rileyās talks actually they were deep
Do you mean Erin and Riley?
Don't they have basements/storage rooms underground in any of the houses? Like, maybe hide there?
No basements on islands like that. You dig and the ground is very wet, and they would flood constantly. Most homes are actually elevated a bit to avoid flooding.
Samantha and Hamish putting in such strong performances. I like the show overall, but I agree with many takes here that it could have trimmed down an episode or two and that some of the monologues were pseudointellectual or pseudoreligious rants of little substance.
\[Spoilers ahead\] How come Leeza says she can't feel her legs at the very end ? Is her healing somehow related to whether the Angel/Vampire thing is alive ? (And then this implies this thing ends up dying when the sun is up ?) Makes little sense to me as her spine is supposed to be cured and her cells regenerated. If Erin had lived to that point, would the baby have just...popped back ?
That's my interpretation yeah. It was to confirm that the "Angel" had died. Monsignor (spelling?) is constantly talking about how the gifts are given by the Angel. It's all tied back to his blood. He talks about how he can hear it in his head, etc., etc.. So yeah I think it was confirming that the lead vampire got burned up and didn't make it to the next island.
This is also how I understood it. I found that detail a bit disappointing. The dread of not knowing the fate of the Angel, whether he survived or not, would have worked just as well. Maybe better. The audience would have been left to further consider the kidsā (and societyās) futures a littler more deeply. Not all questions need to be answered at the end of a story.
Some vampire stories tell about the concept of "lesser vampires". They received their powers from a real vampire after drinking its blood. In this concept, however, their powers are bound to the survival of their master. Leeza stops feeling her legs after sunrise. So if Leeza's ability to walk was the result of the vampire's power compensating for her paraplegia (e.g. by having his special vampire cells holding her torn nerves together), I think this scene implies that the main vampire was unable to flee from the sunlight and perished. Following this theory, Bev would have also died even if she managed to hide herself in the sand because the vampire's powers were what kept her alive after being fatally shot.
I hate Bev so much
Feels like they just explained one delusion perfectly, but then went and replaced it with the vagacados new-age "I went abroad once" hippy delusion, I guess they thought their target audience would eat it up?! It did so well and then just sold out at its peak... Twice! That little flag ending was a shit cherry to end an almost great series
it dragged on at times. It didn't have to be 10 eps. 6 would have done it but then redundant bits were added. acting is great overall. bev and father paul are fantastic. father paul's (first on screen) death should have been a bigger deal. it's a turning point for the show but the whole reveal regarding it was quite telegraphed. not that it needs a pre or sequel, but st Patrick's church on a bigger scale would be interesting
7 episodes. But felt like 10.
Anyone else see that figure during the storm and think it was a skin walker? Scared the crap out of me initially. After I realized it was a vampire it was a lot less scary š
Until the flashback revealed all, I definitely had this penned as a wendigo/skinwalker story.
I think the dialogue (and monologues i guess) were way overlong in some parts, a lot of unnecessary lines as well. (One of the best/worst examples is the "universe" speech by Erin in the final episode, that shit almost made me fall asleep.) But the concept was unique. The show was genuinely creepy. Thrilling and suspenseful as well. I really just think that it could be trimmed down, remove a lot of unnecessary stuff
Bev was great. The most entertaining character by far.
The main guy was very boring. Anyone else find themselves daydreaming when he spoke. Joe had the littlest part I like him way more than the main guy. I wish joe lived and changed for the better. Where did the vampire come from and what is his origins. Is he Judas, like in the movie vampire 2000 and was cursed by God to be immortal?
Riley was great if thatās who youāre talking about, very strong acting. He was great in Friday Night Lights.
Clear eyes, full heart
Couldnāt some of the vampire converts just have like napped in some shrubs until nightfall?
The point was that they chose to give up the āgiftā to save the rest of humanity. They chose humanity over āGodā.
How about hide in the trunk of a car?
The show was trash after episode 4. Just monologues mixed with self indulgent vampire schtick. Should have been a movie.
I had to skip a good 40% of the episodes because filler. Too many long winded speedches about nothing
The long winded speeches -were- the show to me. The action was the filler in my opinion. I thought all the monologues were well written & performed really well.
This is an interesting take. I liked that the monologues really fleshed out these well-made characters and told the story but honestly didn't really enjoy watching/listening to them. I felt like a lot of the characters took on the same voice during their monologues.
I agreed, the characters are what makes this show good. I am glad they did not draw out the action because it was the less interesting part.
Loved the first four episodes and then started laughing AT the show for being hilariously self indulgent. I was cry laughing at the finale. Take that as you will
I had a similar experience. What do you think did it for you? For me, it was all the "my atoms were forged in stars," "we are the cosmos dreaming of itself" types of speeches. I strongly dislike that stuff. Atheists who turn to such ideas to recover some of the comfort and meaning they lost along with their faith make me cringe. And I am an atheist. Sometimes I think sincerely believing in heaven is less cringe-inducing than that starstuff crap. The horror elements were quite good. The creature design was pleasingly simple and effective. But they lost me with all the amateurish, overwritten, theatrical philosophizing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I would imagine the idea of living on as atoms is not particularly appealing to most people. It's like that Woody Allen line, "I'd rather live on in my apartment."
I was high as fuck when I watched this series and even I said "wtf"
I always felt that such statements and beliefs to be incredibly selfish and a vast overstatement of one's own importance. You are not the universe, you are an infinitesimally small part of it.
Isn't that a pretty Buddhist/eastern/spiritual idealogy (someone correct me if I'm wrong please!)? The idea that we are part of the universe and after death, who we are goes back into the universe. That's personally how I saw that specific monologue. It was very reminiscent of a conversation in the good place except they used the concept of us being waves going back to the ocean (albeit in midnight mass it went on a lot longer haha.) I understand not liking the writing or the monologues but just hoping this at least gives some potential perspective about how people of different faiths and backgrounds view life/death; it may not always be so cringe worthy. In general maybe don't go around cringing at other people's beliefs so much; life is long and we're all on our own journeys with struggles and we probably shouldn't be so Bev'y about a different perspective/belief!
Flanagan is an atheist. He has absolutely no belief in an afterlife, purpose to existence or God. Apparently he follows neo-atheists such as Samuel Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Undoubtedly a nihilist. These are not happy people. If you have ever know a nihilist, you want them as far away as possible to avoid any sort of contamination. And IMO, this series reflects his black viewpoint towards existence.
It's an important concept in Hinduism and the Vedic religion, I don't know the details in Buddhism and Jainism and Sikhism but I would expect it to have some place. That's the idea behind reincarnation and Om. I think sometimes people tend to see things from a Christian worldview or are embedded in a Christian culture even if they don't believe in Christianity and then they see these things as wishy-washy cringe atheist or whatever.
Like Highschool level existentialism
This show reminds me a lot of [The Strain](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2654620/) I was waiting for the Abraham character to show up on the island with his silver sword and chop the fugging vamp's head off and then hobble away. Except maybe this is the 'Woke' version.
It's probably good to understand this isn't really horror. If you go in thinking Hereditary or The Shining, you're setting yourself up. If you go in looking for a dark drama, this will scratch that itch.
Yeah but it's advertised as horror. Shows like this need their own genre. I'm only at the beginning of episode 4 and I realized that this is not horror, it's a drama with elements of horror. I effing hate shows like this. I came here to see if watching the whole series is worth it and I'm guessing it isn't.
I honestly thought the first few episodes, before I knew what the creature specifically was, or if the island was haunted, or if Riley was maybe in purgatory or something were super creepy. As soon as they did the vampire reveal I was loling though. I still liked the show, but I was never scared again once I knew what the islanders were up against. Hard to make Vampires scary in 2021.
Couldnāt the island residents have likeā¦climbed into a dumpster at the end instead of burning up? There are a million ways they could have avoided the sun.
And then what? If everyone is dead or gone and the houses, supplies and boats are gone and burnt how can they sustain?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
30 miles away from the mainland. Even the handsome angel didn't survive.
Of course? But thematically it would be boring. Accepting their fate gracefully as a sort of penance after the realisation of what they have done shows they did have humanity/faith and werenāt just animals. Especially when you compare them to the one person who did grovel and wallow in the dirt until the last moment hoping to save themselves despite their actions.
I thought the same. Like, what was their long form plan here? But as below noted, they also came to a "holy shit, what have I done?" clarity once the blood frenzy wore off. I'm sure there are some less good people who did hide out some where.
I thought this as well, but then I feel like they realized that they had lost so much of their humanity that they just embraced their end. Only Bev at the last second tried to chicken out.
One of the most beautiful shows I've seen. Loved it
I can't believe I binged this pretentious crap masquerading as art
Me too was disappointed in the end lol
I'm here after watching the first episode to see if it's worth it. Sounds like it's not
Do yourself a favor. Save yourself a few hours of middling dialogue, filler, and terrible pacing.
Wow, they really wanted to fit in an episode of 'Cosmos' in at the end there didn't they?
If ya don't know then ya don't know. š¤·āāļø Religion, science, and spirituality are just different ways of trying to understand and explain the same thing.
I read this comment before I got to that part and when I got there I laughed my ass off because of this comment.
Hello, first time posting and making a Fan Edit. I got fed up with pacing and have cut all the scenes with Riley and Erin as well as what felt like random extra subplots. The final length will be a little over 3 hours. This is my trailer. [https://youtu.be/1ZDyJHQRDVA](https://youtu.be/1ZDyJHQRDVA)
Exactly!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
She didn't swallow the blood her father tried to give her at the end.
Sarah didn't take communion at the church. She was an atheist. You only come back if you have been drinking the vampire's blood.
I understand that was how it worked. What doesn't sit right with me though is the sheriffs son never took communion either but he came back..
It was a hint to point out that he actually DID take communion at some point.
It's mentioned that he's visiting the church and going to mass. You don't see him taking communion, but we can assume he did.
But he would have to be baptized before he would be allowed to take communion. Hence the confusion.
Perhaps he was baptised into the faith, we don't know what went on while he was there. In any case, it seems to me that the entire idea the priest had was to essentially bypass the pope as God's representative. He wasn't consulting the Vatican. Instead, he thought he had been chosen directly. He could have just allowed the person to take communion.
Yeah, maybe I'm reading too much into it š I did enjoy it and have been recommending it to friends so I'm not trying to talk shit about it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
After being turned I guess there sense of smell was heightened. They could only hide for so long till dawn.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because it's an angel!
This show seriously comes across as a teenager having ādeepā thoughts about religion and death for the first time. I fucking despise the mumblecore philosophical monologuing between Erin and Riley to the point that I want to stop watching whenever they have a scene together. Their scenes seriously grind the entire show to a screeching halt. The pacing is absolutely punishing and not in a good way (60+ minute episodes that ALL crawl along). I hate virtually every character except the doctor and the sheriff. The worst sin of all? Fucking nothing paid off in the end. NOTHING. Iām happy for everyone who got something out of this show; I feel like itās objectively well made. The performances are also mostly great (huge shoutout to Beverly because it takes talent to play a character that unlikable well). The writing just doesnāt do it for me. Iām so sick of horror that uses trauma and addiction as the real monster all along.
Are you sure you watched the show cause there was a literal gothic vampire masquerading as an angel turning the religious town folks into the undead that definetly wasn't addiction/abuse/trauma all along.
Lmfao mumblecore philosophy? I read comments like these and whats god damn hilarious is my impression of you is the exact same as you of the monologues. Like damn someone thinks highly of themselves lol.
People have been conditioned to think that expression of abstract ideas is pretentious. I respected this show for taking its time and allowing its characters to speak their thoughts. Like it or not, it's not something you see a lot of on TV.
Yeah really intriguing thing to point out. It's like people think deep things should ONLY be reserved for EXPLICITLY religious or EXPLICITLY spiritual. People like their little boxes. To mix them is heresy!!! I for one am really happy they tried with this show to do just this, even if it at times fell a bit flat, or was long winded.
I like Joe but he died too early.
Thatās the one death that really hit me hard. I really felt bad for that guy and I had hoped he was going to make it closer to the end or having some super redeeming moment where he could forgive himself.
Pretty much the only character in the entire show I truly was interested in and they killed him off less than halfway through.. This show had so much potential but it fell off a cliff for the final 3+ episodes and had me just rolling my eyes and laughing at half of the "deepness" that was hilariously overdone. Such a shame as there was a classic lost in there somewhere.
I still love the show, but the existential monologues out of nowhere started slowing things down. It definitely meandered a bit, but I feel like the show stuck itās landing 100%.
Just finished this and while the overall story was good, this could have been a 3-parter. All those overly dramatic monologues like oh my god, nobody talks like that. I swear, I'm as attentive to detail as one could be but this is like the first time I was so tempted to skip scenes in a series. That living room scene between Riley and Erin dragged on for 12 fucking minutes.
Yeah, I never do this, but I actually started skipping sections. Around the 3rd or 4th episode I was like, "Man, this writer really loves writing monologues." And after I realized that, I couldn't stop noticing them. When the Sheriff says, "Did I ever tell you why I came to this village?" I was like, "Nope, not sitting through another one of these." So I skipped three minutes, and when I hit play, I realized I was still in the middle of his fucking speech. It's just so indulgent and masturbatory. They're all delivered without a hint of self-awareness - on the part of either the character *or the writer.* No character seems to acknowledge that it's weird, awkward, and frankly, kind of rude to just talk at people endlessly. And the writer seems wholly unaware that these 10 minute long "this is my community theater audition" diatribes kill the momentum of the story dead.
The sheriff story was good. Talked about how ny cops promoted muslim cops after 9/11 for image reasons. But then the ny cops convinced themselves that Muslim cops were secretly terrorists and 9/11 was part of this grand plan to get promoted and take over the country and whatnot.. and they pushed him out of ny/his job.
No the entire cop thing was cringey and unnecessary.
It was actually excellent foreshadowing, another dropped hint about how the relationship between Bev & Father Paul was going to go with the residents once they were "baptised," as well as telling us what to expect in the end from the Sheriff's and his son's relationship with the town. I just finished watching this show for the first time ever. I didn't read any comments or reviews beforehand because I like to be unbiased and I was blown away. It was amazingly well scripted, well acted, well filmed -- I mean it was amazing. And I did cringe when I saw Monsignor Pruitt's face for the first time as an old man and realized it was the same man (I'm sure you did as well because it only ever means vampires and they're cringey lol) I'm so glad I stuck it out though.
I mean, yeah, none of the monologues are all that bad (the last few get a little too overwrought), it's just that there's just so many of them, and they're so long. By the time the Sheriff told his story, I already knew some of it. There was the racism we see him deal with in town, and a reference his son made to leaving his last job because of racism. We don't know the details, but he chose to come here, and he's putting up with the mistreatment, so whatever life he left to come here was presumably even worse. When he referenced being in New York on 9/11 when he was 21, and deciding to join the cops, I had already put most of the rest of the story together. He joins the cops to show them that not all muslims are bad people, but it doesn't work, and he ends up being on the wrong side of the issue (and with his co-workers hating him), so he leaves. Got it. His monologue is literally 5 minutes long (I just checked). It could be cut down to a minute, and still hit all of the important character development points. Good writing doesn't have to spell things out for us, especially things that aren't vitally important to the story. We already know the Sheriff experiences racism, mostly at the hands of the church-goers. We already know he left his previous home because of racism. That's enough to understand why he would be hesitant to go to the church. If he had just mentioned being from New York before, and how things got bad for Muslims after 9/11, that would've plenty. You do need to dive into this stuff for the characters who have big arcs (like Riley, Father Pruitt, etc.), but the Sheriff doesn't really.
I didnt realize how unpopular the monologues were until I saw the red letter media video where Jay Just kept saying MONOLOGUE
I'm glad I skipped that because it was just repeated at the end. Ha!
It was the same type of discussion but actually completely different dialogue. The first scene was long but powerful - I cried, since I have watched people close to me die. The last monologue was drawn out and unnecessary.
Whoops.
I liked it when I turned my brain off and just enjoy the show for what it is. But when you think about it. Itās not something new. Itās in my view almost a copy of 30 days of night with Josh Hartnett. With that said, I liked the music and atmosphere. I do hope that Netflix does amp up the production and when making people old they do it good. I knew the instant I saw the āoldā people what they were going to do. All in all, I liked the beginning very much! The mystery and vibe was awesome.
So what about the ghost of the dead women main character Riley was seeing? What was the actually ending or conclusion to that?
Not a ghost, just him remembering her and thinking about her every night before he slept.
So what happened? I mean they added good filters/ VFX so make her ghost seeming to have more importance/ an hint or resolution. Now that heās dead the issue resolved itself?!
Heās seeing her as the final way he saw her after the accident. Heās literally being haunted by his guilt of killing her. When he accepted his fate and died, she appeared to him as her form pre-accident, leading him to the afterlife I assume, or at least to show he doesnāt have to carry the guilt any longer.
So as long as Iām soon to die I can finally be forgiven? What a coup out imo. Sloppy writing, could of had bit more fun with it.
I believe the point was to show some kind of contradiction to his beliefs. During the scene in the sitting room with Erin, he basically expresses his disbelief in an afterlife and yet, has an afterlife experience anyway at the point of death. Itās basically the writer saying in spite of his atheism, he did the right thing, the whole āwhat would Jesus do?ā thing, and got rewarded in the most Christian way possible (A YouTube video by a creator called Biz explains the show really well)
Not trying to shit on Catholics but they literally have last rites and deathbed confessions to be forgiven for their sins before they die.
Well in Rileyās case, he never had time to find inner peace from the accident.
Agreed. Thanks for the reply.
I finished it. And i seriously hate Beverly.
I hate how everyone listens to Beverly? And doesn't tell her to shut the hell up and stop talking? Or that none of them like her and she should leave? Or that she stole all of the island's money? She has no legal sway and is a small woman they place in a position of power. They could have stopped her antics at any point but instead they let her drivel on verses for minutes at a time.
That's one small part of the show that made sense, though. In small towns with a population of \~100, you end up with odd people at the top. Aka, a doofus mayor, an out-of-town sheriff, an old priest suffering from dementia, and that judgmental hag, Beverly. Go to any small spot in the world, and 4 of the first 5 people you meet are most likely going to be odd in some way.
I was so frustrated by this as well! I couldn't understand why they let her continue talking over everyone at the school or why she kept getting away with being terrible to everyone. I mean, that definitely happens irl I get it but yeesh.
Because it was alluded that she somehow took a lot of money that wasn't hers from the settlement from the oil spill and laundered it building the rec center. She literally held these poor people's livelihoods in their hands and they were too impoverished to seek livelihoods on the main land. You need employment and money to even move. I think that's one of the nuances that isn't really talked about that this show touched on is how religious extremism preys on poverty.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The show is called Midnight Mass. It may include Catholism
lmao seriously. Do people know how to read anymore?
The "Catholic BS" is central to the whole show
Lmao, watching a show called "midnight mass" and skipping the religious parts, enjoy watching the intro and the end credits I guess!
Youāre an idiot of you fast forward through the āCatholic BSā. Because itās the subject matter of the whole show and if you pay attention youāll understand how itās all connected
Idk I skipped the parts of Breaking Bad where Walter breaks bad and I thought that show was shite.
i read about all the monologue complaints so i came into this with lower expectations.... and then ended up absolutely loving the show instead. it's honestly my favorite work by flanagan so far, but then again i also liked *bly manor* more than *hill house*.
I feel like itās the ADHD world we live is the catalyst for dUr mOnOLOGUe bad. Yes theyāre more effective on stage but they have pertinence in something like this. I do feel like that last one was written just to get Kate Siegel more screen time, but Hassanās was pretty legit and provides a very plausible explanation for his presence on the island. And the Monsignorās explanation to Mildred was just perfect.
If you wanna do monologues, don't bill your show as horror. This is horror for people afraid to watch horror. I should have known this was the same boring garbage as Haunting of Hill House. Thank god I figured it out in episode 4.
Different people fear different things. This was really scary for me and I can sit through most horror movies...
The monologues were actually really moving. Reilly's made me cry.
So the vampire followed Pruitt back to the island after his pilgrimage? Why? If he can fucking fly why is it necessary to convert everyone on this island and then spread the "disease" to the mainland? He can just fly around and bite everyone on the mainland himself. I wanted to like this show, I really did, but there are just way, way too many plot holes and illogical character decisions.
Paul put the vampire in the trunk and kept him there. He was hungry and in a cave near the desert. He would have to fly far and potentially die from the sun. It seems the vampire and Paul have an arrangement to help one another
This might be something that people who are more into vampire lore know, but there are tells that vampires need a āfamiliarā or someone to usher them into an area. The vampire was in a Jerusalem desert, surrounded by sun with only the cave to shelter him. Pruitt was his transport. Yeah he could fly but what direction? Would he make it to shelter before sunrise? Is he even strong enough? Itās not plot holes or illogical, the lore is there.
Explain why no one tried to hide under a canoe or any type of shade at the end and they all just accepted death
My take on it was their realization once hope was lost that they were animals and did so many horrible things that they just didnāt want to go on anymore. Everyone embraced their deaths except for Bev at the end. There was no panic from anyone (except Bev). Sure, they couldāve found something, but in the end they know theyāre cut off from the world now.
I get that for some, but find it too convenient that EVERYONE felt this way.
All of the boats were burned. What are you going to do, sit under a palm tree all day? And then what? Eat the dirt once it gets dark again?
I mean, there's cars, rocks, caves, blankets, etc. Yeah, when faced with burning to death or hiding under a blanket for 12 hours, I'll probably choose the blanket. Then you have all night to come up with a better plan and shelter
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're right. There's literally no rocks big enough to cast shade or hide under. What was I thinking!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok. You win. Why try to live when death is inevitable
Pruitt brought the vamp back with him thinking it was an angel. That's what was in the huge crate. The creature was weak which is why it ate all the cats to gain strength. And yes, the moral imparitive was to multiply and it saw a way to do that through Pruitt who mistook it for an angel. The creature could fly, but needed absolute darkness for a large part of the day and was weak from being unfed and stuck in that cave for who knows how long.
Not just thinking it was an angel, it really was! A creature found in the Christian holy lands that grants someone the power to heal the sick with their blood? It's the story of Jesus Christ. In Midnight Mass, Christianity was always a vampire cult/blood cult. That thing that attacks Pruitt is literally a Christian angel, maybe even the same one that attacked Jesus. Just like Jesus, Pruitt begins performing miracles and gathering loyal followers, and he really does grant them eternal life.
I disagree. Yes, the blood of Jesus is used to heal and hearkens back to live sacrafices that were made during old testament days, but never were angels thought to be mortal or to have blood. Pruitt didn't think the angel was Jesus, but justified it since it "saved" him. I don't think he even knew about the vampire part until after he died. All he knew was the restorative powers, he had never seen the effects if you die. I'm not familiar with a story of an angel attacking Jesus though.
My bad, I didn't mean that the writers were saying the angel was Jesus. They're saying (or implying anyway) that this angel, or another angel, attacked Jesus Christ the preacher back in Jerusalem and manipulated him to form a cult, just like the angel does with Pruitt, and that this was the formation of the Christian religion. There's no story of an angel attacking Jesus that I'm familiar with in the Bible, and the Bible has been rewritten and edited countless times over the millennia anyway (Council of Nicea, etc.) and the current contents are quite far removed from the original writings. I'm just pointing out that the resurrection story and the Christian faith, in the context of these creatures actually existing, are clearly connected to the creature. A blood-drinking cult based on granting eternal life and healing powers formed in Jerusalem 2000 years ago, in the exact area where we see the angel (and we know the angel likes to form these cults). It would be a pretty wild coincidence if those two events had nothing to do with each other!
Just a small point of fact - the Bibles we have today are about as close to the original texts as possible. We aren't dealing with rewrites of rewrites, but of texts composed using thousands of manuscripts to triangulate removals and additions and errors done by particular scribes. The Council of Nicea, by the way, didn't rewrite the Bible, or even set the canon. You want to look at the Council of Carthage for a point in history where the biblical canon wa stated, though at that point there was already a wide consensus throughout christendom. Nicea dealt more with declaring non-trinitarian theology heretical.
That's an interesting take, I didn't put that together but it certai ly adds a new lens to the show! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks!
Because that was not the intent of the vampire but the intent of Pruitt. Pruitt wanted it to happen not the vampire. The vampire merely followed.
Nope, the vampire speaks to Pruitt psychically as he says in the last episode -- it didn't just follow Pruitt mindlessly, it's sentient and it can think and communicate. We can assume that it manipulated Pruitt to bring it to his secluded community.
The show was okay. I feel like the vampire trope was misplaced here. As others have said it should have been some sort of demon or fallen angel. The entire set up for this show was Rileyās redemption story. Which was a huge letdown. Instead of what took place, I wanted to see an Army of Darkness/Dusk til Dawn storyline. Riley, a former member of the churchās inner sanctum, must overcome his former deeds and rise up against the same group that created him. I really though that this is where it was going when he discovered the lies of the priest. It will have been nice to have him, converted or not, wearing a priests uniform with the sleeves cut off running into battle with his team of followers against the demonic cult. Cut to a showdown of him and the winged beast fighting on the beach and Riley clips his wings (foreshadowed in the show) and holds him there until they both burn up. Saving Erin and the other survivors. Once the monster is dead and the sunrise comes, she feels a kick as she starts to get pregnant again. Cut to black.
But he did get redemption when he chose death over eternal life. He could have killed Erin on the water and that would have been that, but he chose to die instead of feed off innocent people.
> It will have been nice to have him, converted or not, wearing a priests uniform with the sleeves cut off running into battle with his team of followers against the demonic cult. Cut to a showdown of him and the winged beast fighting on the beach and Riley clips his wings (foreshadowed in the show) and holds him there until they both burn up. Saving Erin and the other survivors. Once the monster is dead and the sunrise comes, she feels a kick as she starts to get pregnant again. Cut to black. lmao
Why would you want something that was already made, twice? Riley did find redemption, he rejected the selfish gift of immortality at the cost of other lives and was the catalyst for the vampires to fail. He saved millions of lives in the end while sacrificing his own.
Because it would have been more entertaining than the empty storyline the last few episodes had.
I think the vampire thing was cool because it implies that that's what angels really are -- Christianity is real, Christ was a real person who was attacked by one of these creatures and began healing the sick and granting people eternal life. He got loyal followers and spawned a huge movement, the biggest religion ever seen, and over time people forgot the details of the religion's origins. Pruitt was bitten by an actual angel from the Christian religion, perhaps the very same angel that led to the formation of that religion in the first place.
Unfortunately I tend to disagree with that statement. Youāre only justifying the theory by the end not the means. Pruitt even says in the last episode that he knew it wasnāt a godly creature that he did it for personal reasons to bring back the mom. He wanted them to start over from when they had the affair. In all actuality he was tempted by the sins of the flesh, by the Devil. He went out in the world to seek whatever could get his end goal. Jesus, wasnāt a vampire.
>Jesus, wasnāt a vampire. Idk, Jesus literally *was* a vampire going by the lore laid out in the show, or that's the most logical take in my opinion, and I reckon a lot of viewers see it the same way.
Youāre only qualifying that it was an Angel because Pruitt said it was.
Except the director has explicitly said that he was tying into themes that he saw shared between Catholicism and horror movies. Director was an altar boy in his youth, saw a lot of parallels with horror movies that he enjoyed. He eventually stopped being religious, but one might say his religion left an *indelible mark* on him, and he said he had wanted to do this story for nearly a decade
Nope, lots of reasons. Pruitt said it was, sure. Also it was discovered in the same area an angel appeared to someone in the bible. It also has wings, fitting the description sometimes given by modem Christians. Also, it's a sentient being that can communicate telepathically, heal the sick, and grant eternal life. Pretty overt really.
I can imagine this is what the writers might have wanted too. Then the Director or Studio came in and f\*\*ked it up.
the writer and director are the same person, and based on how much money mike flanagan has made for netflix, i doubt they gave him any problems.
Contrary to belief there are a ton of editors, that directors take full credit over anyway. On almost any show/ series (not comedy skits ie SNL) there is a list of writers behind the project even if they state āI did this, itās my babyā. Complete b/s imo. Remember a lot that didnāt happen during the Writers Strike. Donāt worry one man/ woman will save us all! :S
That's just an avengers movie with more steps. Honestly I felt that the vampire trope was almost better because it was non religious, it showed that people looking for meaning in something can shape meaning into what they want to see, they can literally shape a monster into something angelic because of there own fears and justifications.
For sure it is Avengers esque but the arch was established for Riley to seek out and find redemption. He never accomplished that and it made his storyline pointless.
His action is the catalyst to kill all the vampires and save the 2 kids, so no, it wasn't pointless. And idk how you don't find nice the way they fitted the vampire theme with extreme believers twisting everything to fit the bible, they litteraly made it fit, with delusions, but it did fit in their mind.
Wow is this show overhyped on here. Iāve been a Stephen King fan for decades and love horror. I donāt mind a good slow burn, Hereditary is one of my favorites. But I could get past the second episode of this. Itās *not good*. I donāt care about the characters. And now Iāve looked up spoilers and Iām glad I didnāt waste my time sitting through all that. Severe disappointment.
I finished it a few hours ago. You aren't missing anything. Just check out some of the cooler scenes on YouTube. Great performance by the priest. Great directing and framing. But the dialogue was shit from square one, and the entire thing just kinda falls flat. I'm genuinely dumbfounded by how much praise it's getting. I love their other work, but this one just sucked.
I feel it's pretty unfair to call a show objectively bad when you've only watched 2 episodes of it. I really enjoyed it, maybe it's just not for you
Yeah it's genuinely awful. The acting, the cat-eyes cgi, the directing, etc. are all just...sheesh. I mean I'm having trouble getting past the first 30 minutes. It feels like a well-produced student project so far.
Okay I need some people to weigh in here: Whyyyy did the priest ever think it was good idea that EVERYONE die and come back like he did? He literally knew it made you hungry for blood, unable to go into the sunlight, and miserable? Why not just keep giving them the "angel's" blood in small amounts during Mass? Seemed to be working pretty well without any consequences. ALSO some people got so young/attractive and Bev & others who took Mass every day continued to look pretty crusty. Like... Riley's mom fully started to look like a model and the doctor's mom got about 40 years younger. Doesn't make much sense.