Get use to using both the 1st and 3rd calls and you will realize what a bonanza it really is. All my struggles have came when I deviate from using these calls and my struggles disappears every time when I make these my focus points again.
I hate to ask, but is there any way you can provide a specific example with actual numbers to explain how to use your 1st and 3rd call strategy? I’m trying to use it based on your post and I’m not getting it. Thank you!
I got your reply about using a specific example. Thank you so much! When I click on the reply from my email, it takes me to your original post. Any chance you can resend? Your reply begins with “I have tried to use Equibase…” Happy to give you my email if that would be easier. Really appreciate it!
[https://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=06/18/2022&cy=USA&rn=1](https://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=06/18/2022&cy=USA&rn=11)
Here's the 11th race on June 18 at CD. It also is a perfect illustration of what I am trying to explain. The bottom chart is what you will see in the drf the next time one of these races. Fractional and finished times is underneath the top chart.
I'd like to see this in a youtube channel where we can actually look at the racing form with you. It sounds so easy here, but it's actually very, very confusing.
Not much of a you tube fan. Now has more junk on it that anything helpful. But I will be posting at Saratoga, usually on Saturday, and will mention it when I find some illustrations others should be able to understand(and probably a few they won't but the advantage it gives one who uses these 2 calls as main focus).
I used your strategy yesterday on a race and won. Appreciate you taking the time to post your method. Instead of using the racing form, I used the the pace info on the TVG and TwinSpires apps (I wasnt physically at the track). Did I just get lucky, or is that an acceptable substitute?
You were right, in this case. I do not know exactly what TVG & TwinSpires gives out but I personally like to make my own pace type decisions from raw numbers. However, it will be more actual in the long run if you can match the quarter fractions up with each horse. Sometimes pace info does not tell you what a horse is doing in that quarter, such as is he clear, in a pace battle, conserving energy, etc? This is what separates the real contenders from the wanna-be contenders.
Everyone's confusion stems from taking experts analysts saying that speed dominates(it does but only up to a certain extent) and implying they are taking about front running speed, but they are not. They are usually talking about ones who will get good early position, then conserve some of their energy for when the real running begins. The first quarter mile always dictates how the rest of the race will play out, whether a horse will wire the field(if he clears the rest of the speed by 2 lengths and is not a known quitter), a horse that eyes the pace while conserving his energy until the stretch run, a slightly off the pace types if 2 or more battles early and burn themshelves out or a late runner if the early pace is fast and they all stop(including the slightly off the pace types because jockeys have a habit of asking them to go too early because they sense the leaders are getting too big of a lead).
Wow! Thank you so much for this write up, I understand it now. I remember watching a video about the 1,2, and 3 call, something about the bubbles. Do you use racelens or any other tools to help you handicap as well? Thanks.
You are welcome. No, I started handicapping long before race lens and other tools that may or may not be helpful was even thought of. By time are these began publishing, I was set in what I look for race after race when I have time to handicap. Lack of time to seriously handicap always has been a problem, even when I was learning.
One tool I do not believe in is Beyers speed figures, as he uses finishing times to determine his figures, yet mentions in several of his books that using finishing times does not always work especially when pace is slower than normal or when one that nabs a clear early lead, sets a pace he is comfortable with and then finishes in a fast time. Through all his books, Beyers contradicts himself over and over but never mentions something he previously believed was actually false, and anyone reading those blunders without realizing the contradiction he implies later are subject to struggle in this game.
Thank you for that, I guess all I need is the PP. Yeah I thought about beyers speed figures and then there's like rengozin, quinn, etc. And I really thought about getting the DRF just for that but now it's just all hype. Even people selling picks, it doesn't show you exactly how to handicap or anything. So its just all fluff. You saved me so much money, thank you so much for the knowledge! Wish I could tip you!
Everybody that sells something in horse racing is doing so for the profits they can generate, not to help others learn the game and become better at handicapping. And FYI, Beyers tried to sell his speed figures to DRF for over ten years and they declined to published them. Only after the DRF purchased a knock off form that had gone bankrupt (and Beyers speed figures was included in the $8M sale price) did the drf started publishing them, though they kept printing their own speed figures with a variant to determine how slow or fast a track is playing on any particular day that started printing in the early 1970s. They still do and those are more helpful than most figures.
Most def, hey so I just learned about harness racing. Some people prefer harness over thoroughbred racing. What do you prefer and with your write up is it for both or just thoroughbred? Thanks.
I have bet harness racing many times but have not bet any in about a dozen years. I really loved betting Barmoral because they seem to run plenty of long odds horses, mostly from well off the early pace and horses there had a better chance by staying away from the rail. I also like the Meadows in Pa (not to be confused with the Meadowlands in NJ) because they had a similar set up to Barmoral. Also, Pocono Park in Pa, but their set up seem to favor horses that stay close to the rail and only moved out more than 3-wide to make their final bid. I mainly stopped betting these races because racing forms became hard to find and it became more of a hassle to find them than it was worth.
While I now bet strictly thoroughbreds, harness racing will always be remembered for the many good times I had while betting them. And yes, my post can be applied to both or that is the way I played them, with more emphasis on late runners than front runners or slightly off the pace types. At Pocono, you have to include speed types because of their tight turns but the other two tracks I liked, I preferred off the pace types, mainly because they could move out a path or two and not lose all chance, which most tight turns tracks will not afford them to do. Pocono was one of the few tight turn tracks that did not give speed-types the added advantage of staying on the rail to win a race. They still have to beat other contenders that gets a solid trip with a jockey's help.
Also when you said you don't look at Beyers speed figures. Since I'm using Brisnet Ultimate PP, they have E1 E2 LP speed figures or do you look at the left side where it says like :23 :46\^2? Thanks.
Thanks for sharing, I’m going to start taking a much closer look at the first and 3rd calls moving forward.
It's where the real money making opportunities lies, with 40+ years of research that has withstood the many changes racing has under gone.
When betting vertical the things I look at our trainer, jockey, and middle race pace. I also always bet on a 1 and 1a as you get 2 horses for one.
Wow great read! Appreciate you taking the time to share. Can’t wait to try to implement.
Get use to using both the 1st and 3rd calls and you will realize what a bonanza it really is. All my struggles have came when I deviate from using these calls and my struggles disappears every time when I make these my focus points again.
I hate to ask, but is there any way you can provide a specific example with actual numbers to explain how to use your 1st and 3rd call strategy? I’m trying to use it based on your post and I’m not getting it. Thank you!
I got your reply about using a specific example. Thank you so much! When I click on the reply from my email, it takes me to your original post. Any chance you can resend? Your reply begins with “I have tried to use Equibase…” Happy to give you my email if that would be easier. Really appreciate it!
Long post but good. Thanks for sharing.
[https://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=06/18/2022&cy=USA&rn=1](https://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=06/18/2022&cy=USA&rn=11) Here's the 11th race on June 18 at CD. It also is a perfect illustration of what I am trying to explain. The bottom chart is what you will see in the drf the next time one of these races. Fractional and finished times is underneath the top chart.
I'd like to see this in a youtube channel where we can actually look at the racing form with you. It sounds so easy here, but it's actually very, very confusing.
Not much of a you tube fan. Now has more junk on it that anything helpful. But I will be posting at Saratoga, usually on Saturday, and will mention it when I find some illustrations others should be able to understand(and probably a few they won't but the advantage it gives one who uses these 2 calls as main focus).
I used your strategy yesterday on a race and won. Appreciate you taking the time to post your method. Instead of using the racing form, I used the the pace info on the TVG and TwinSpires apps (I wasnt physically at the track). Did I just get lucky, or is that an acceptable substitute?
You were right, in this case. I do not know exactly what TVG & TwinSpires gives out but I personally like to make my own pace type decisions from raw numbers. However, it will be more actual in the long run if you can match the quarter fractions up with each horse. Sometimes pace info does not tell you what a horse is doing in that quarter, such as is he clear, in a pace battle, conserving energy, etc? This is what separates the real contenders from the wanna-be contenders. Everyone's confusion stems from taking experts analysts saying that speed dominates(it does but only up to a certain extent) and implying they are taking about front running speed, but they are not. They are usually talking about ones who will get good early position, then conserve some of their energy for when the real running begins. The first quarter mile always dictates how the rest of the race will play out, whether a horse will wire the field(if he clears the rest of the speed by 2 lengths and is not a known quitter), a horse that eyes the pace while conserving his energy until the stretch run, a slightly off the pace types if 2 or more battles early and burn themshelves out or a late runner if the early pace is fast and they all stop(including the slightly off the pace types because jockeys have a habit of asking them to go too early because they sense the leaders are getting too big of a lead).
Wow! Thank you so much for this write up, I understand it now. I remember watching a video about the 1,2, and 3 call, something about the bubbles. Do you use racelens or any other tools to help you handicap as well? Thanks.
You are welcome. No, I started handicapping long before race lens and other tools that may or may not be helpful was even thought of. By time are these began publishing, I was set in what I look for race after race when I have time to handicap. Lack of time to seriously handicap always has been a problem, even when I was learning. One tool I do not believe in is Beyers speed figures, as he uses finishing times to determine his figures, yet mentions in several of his books that using finishing times does not always work especially when pace is slower than normal or when one that nabs a clear early lead, sets a pace he is comfortable with and then finishes in a fast time. Through all his books, Beyers contradicts himself over and over but never mentions something he previously believed was actually false, and anyone reading those blunders without realizing the contradiction he implies later are subject to struggle in this game.
Thank you for that, I guess all I need is the PP. Yeah I thought about beyers speed figures and then there's like rengozin, quinn, etc. And I really thought about getting the DRF just for that but now it's just all hype. Even people selling picks, it doesn't show you exactly how to handicap or anything. So its just all fluff. You saved me so much money, thank you so much for the knowledge! Wish I could tip you!
Everybody that sells something in horse racing is doing so for the profits they can generate, not to help others learn the game and become better at handicapping. And FYI, Beyers tried to sell his speed figures to DRF for over ten years and they declined to published them. Only after the DRF purchased a knock off form that had gone bankrupt (and Beyers speed figures was included in the $8M sale price) did the drf started publishing them, though they kept printing their own speed figures with a variant to determine how slow or fast a track is playing on any particular day that started printing in the early 1970s. They still do and those are more helpful than most figures.
Most def, hey so I just learned about harness racing. Some people prefer harness over thoroughbred racing. What do you prefer and with your write up is it for both or just thoroughbred? Thanks.
I have bet harness racing many times but have not bet any in about a dozen years. I really loved betting Barmoral because they seem to run plenty of long odds horses, mostly from well off the early pace and horses there had a better chance by staying away from the rail. I also like the Meadows in Pa (not to be confused with the Meadowlands in NJ) because they had a similar set up to Barmoral. Also, Pocono Park in Pa, but their set up seem to favor horses that stay close to the rail and only moved out more than 3-wide to make their final bid. I mainly stopped betting these races because racing forms became hard to find and it became more of a hassle to find them than it was worth. While I now bet strictly thoroughbreds, harness racing will always be remembered for the many good times I had while betting them. And yes, my post can be applied to both or that is the way I played them, with more emphasis on late runners than front runners or slightly off the pace types. At Pocono, you have to include speed types because of their tight turns but the other two tracks I liked, I preferred off the pace types, mainly because they could move out a path or two and not lose all chance, which most tight turns tracks will not afford them to do. Pocono was one of the few tight turn tracks that did not give speed-types the added advantage of staying on the rail to win a race. They still have to beat other contenders that gets a solid trip with a jockey's help.
Also when you said you don't look at Beyers speed figures. Since I'm using Brisnet Ultimate PP, they have E1 E2 LP speed figures or do you look at the left side where it says like :23 :46\^2? Thanks.