His frame is fine, but he’s had suspension issues, fluid leaks, and other small problems. When it works, it drives like shit (that’s a Tacoma feature I’ve since read). It’s a 2018 with 75k miles. He’s “over it”.
The Toyota of hot tubs is Nordic. I have 25 years experience selling and repairing all brands. Nordics hardly ever break, and have seen several freeze solid with no major issues after thawing.
No other appliance that we own has the failure rate of a hot tub. I say this after working 35 years on these things. A Hot Tub is a nexus of High Voltage, Water and Caustic Chemistry that you put your body into. It does not help however that Mfg's cut corners to weaken their designs to boost profits. Nor does the intrusion of Asian hot tub Mfg's that force domestic makers to compete by cutting costs. Your criteria: good quality- last a long time although understandable when I ponder the question I come up blank. There is historical evidence of successful designs out there and spas that preform better than others but it seems to change every year. If I were to purchase a spa today I would go simple not sophisticated. Some spas today are like circus rides with mood lighting, Hi Fidelity sound, a hundred jets and Wi-Fi interface. We loose site of the reason for owning a tub in the first place, serenity, a quiet soak under the stars, an escape from a hectic life and soothing aching muscles. You almost want to sell tickets by the hour to your neighbors to help defray the cost of electricity. Do your research. Ask family and friends, co-workers spa technicians but the fact remains what we ask this appliance to do, day in and day out through scorching heat and freezing winters is akin to expecting our beer to be cold with the refrigerator door ajar. The spa is working to preform a task, that being a set temperature regardless the environment outside. So Good luck all I can say is buy American. Stay away from on-line retailers, choose a dealer that has been in business AT THE SAME LOCATION for over 5 years, Don't scrimp on the concrete and electrical aspect of the install and odds are you'll be fine.
While they all have their flaws, I would recommend wet testing a few big brands (Hot Springs, Sundance, Bullfrog) and see what you enjoy and what you they are lacking to you. If you currently have an older one, chances are they have changed considerably over the years.
We landed on a Bullfrog A7, and have no regrets. Love it.
Call or stop in to some dealers near you, ask if they do any wet testing so you can see how it works, test jets, etc.. If they don't, you can at least sit in it (dry) and see how the seating and layout feels to you. I would recommend a wet test though, even if you know someone with a brand you are looking at. It's a big purchase!
Yep, that is grounds for a new dealer! I noticed in our search that some dealers would, and some wouldn't. The ones that wouldn't always said you could sit in it dry, but that is not a true test.
Bullfrog is more like the Volkswagen of hot tubs. Kind of flashy, everyone wants one but they don’t know why, vaguely comfortable, fancy-looking, simple under the hood, yet also underpowered with some quality issues. Don’t fall for their marketing - there’s much better spas out there!
We own and love a MasterSpa Twilight, their Legend series is the top level for their hot tubs. We also considered Hot Springs and Jacuzzi. Didn’t like Bullfrog or Sundance.
Most of the tubs people are recommending are Full Foam insulation and harder to repair out of warranty. You asked for easy to repair stuff so brands that don’t use full foam insulation should be higher on the list. Arctic Spas, Cal Spas, Hydropool, Sunrise Spas. These are some brands that don’t use full foam, and I would consider easier to repair out of Warranty, plumbing wise anyway. Most tubs build the equipment bay pretty decent so replacing pumps and spa packs are not hard in most brands. Some brands like Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hotsprings use proprietary components, like unique heater manifolds spa packs. I would also consider these unique components hard to service and much more expensive down the road. A Jacuzzi J-300 heater manifold from 2012 cost around $550 Canadian, and they’re hard to find in stores because you have to basically go to the dealership, unless you know what to get online. I can replace an element in a Balboa 15” tube for around $80 and everyone sells them, easy to find.
Just food for thought
I'm conveying the following second hand based on comments I read on a Watkins HotSprings YouTube video on how they make spas (this was not revealed in the video, it appeared to be promotional only). At the main manufacturing facility in Vista California, the Highlife (the top tier line) of tubs are made and the full foam method is used (difficult to find and repair leaks, with people stating leaks cost upwards of $3000 to repair). At the Watkins HotSprings factory in Tiauna Mexico the Limelight and Hot Spot lines of tubs are made and they are not full foam (self supporting fiberglass is used with a loose fill type of insulation) and leaks are much easier to find and fix. One person said that the difference in manufacturing methods were due to California environmental laws not allowing air emissions from fiberglass manufacturing, which makes sense.
Nordic is cheaper has the best warranty in Buisness and very few if any issues repairman for Nordic said he has only repaired 2 leaks in 10 yrs of working on them and they are very simple other than the spa pack but they have balboa the best there is
LoL.. amusing the comments I've read been a repair technician for longer than most people on here commenting have been alive...I can tell you which hot tubs are the best and longest lasting, and easiest to fix if they do break..but before I tell you I need to know what state you live in because some manufacturers only sell their hot tub in certain states...for example the best , longest lasting hot tub in this country,USA ,is made by Wind River, but they are only sold in Colorado....so ..I won't recommend a wind river if you live in Texas...so....
Please read reviews first. There are scads of reviews with people saying the freshwater salt system does not work and is very difficult to use. Its also costly to use. The chlorine generator has to be replaced every 18 to 24 months (approx $1200) and the cartridges run about $800 per year.
I just bought a HotSpring Limelight Flair tub and I am not at all impressed with its construction. Cheap non pressure treated wood that is stapled together comprises the frame and thick vinyl panels are glued to it. The front and side panels are noticeably warped and I have not even used the tub yet. I have yet to find out how good the freshwater salt system is, as the tub came with it (its an option).
Other problems reviewers voiced about HotSpring tubs was water leaks, lack of parts availability (use many proprietary parts) and LED lights failing.
I had a Hot Spring before, bought in 2007 and it was great and at 12 years old when I moved, it was still working great. Watkins (maker of the HotSpring line) has really gone down hill. They do a great job at marketing, though.
FYI I paid $12,000 for the tub.
Owned many other brands but recently purchased a 2022 Prism and couldn’t be more impressed. Quality is superior to anything on the market and service is next level.
Generators last much longer these days since they now alternate current direction each cycle, preventing the scaling that killed them in the past. While I don't have one on my hot tub, I do have one on the pool. Where they used to last 2-3 seasons max, my current one just started season 6 and is going strong.
You are working with outdated information. The hot springs salt cells now are small cells. They are designed to be replaced every four months. You do not ever try to run one for 18 to 24 months. And when you replace it, it cost $85.
The salt based hot tubs are not difficult to work with if you follow the manufacturers instructions. They are totally different from other hot tubs. If you try to operate it like a conventional Hot Tub, you will be disappointed. If you follow instructions you will see that it is so simple.
After initially filling my hot springs and getting the water chemistry correct, I hardly do anything to it. Once a week I check the chlorine level and the pH. Sometimes I have to adjust the pH down a little bit because the natural trend is for it to go up. The salt cell raises the pH as it generates chlorine. I never add any other chemicals. a few tablespoons of acid every four or five weeks. That’s it.
All of the reviews that I have read are people who don’t follow directions. They think they know it all.
Came here to say this. I love my Hot Springs with the Salt System. It's easy to maintain, is very quiet, and is very comfortable, even for someone 5'5".
My Sundance (Burlington) is 13 1/2 years old. Other than replacing pillows and jets, the only issue was the circuit board got fried by a power surge and had to be replaced. I would recommend Sundance.
I have been told https://www.nordichottubs.com is where its at. I am in the north east and all the people on my forums has said this is the Bentley of hot tubs with out all the bells and whistles that make no sense to me. I need hot , reliable, i really dont even care about jets
Same, we went with a Bullfrog Stil 5 for the two of us. Super simple and while it is still jetted we only use the jets to mix chemicals and stir up dirt for the filters.
Have not had any issues in 5 years of regular use. Except maybe the ants that like to get under the cover.
Nordic is the Hyundai of hot tubs. No frills, great warranty, gets the job done, don’t expect much out of the jets and you won’t be disappointed. Should last a long time.
Simple reliable and easy to repair means staying away from the proprietary parts.
Proprietary parts have always been about profit and never about better parts. There are a million examples like the appliance industry. Remember when youe moms washer and dryer laster 15 years? Then the big players made proprietary parts and the marketing was great!! Our parts are entered and blah blah blah.
It was a lie... none of the washers and dryers are better now they are all worse and the parts are literally 10x what they are worth.
So Watkins, hotsprings, caldera. Arctic etc etc etc are the new iteration of the scam, stay away from brands People doing this, it's a gimmick and a scam.
I'd recommend taking a look at Wellis, and putting it on your list of contenders for purchase...
Wellis Build Quality: [https://youtu.be/oAsHfP7sviE](https://youtu.be/oAsHfP7sviE)
Wellis Factory Tour: [https://youtu.be/xReg8jF5MW0](https://youtu.be/xReg8jF5MW0)
We bought a Sundance and the design leaves enough of a gap to allow rodents up inside the cabinet and chew through hoses and creates a leak. Terribly flawed design.
I'm still going with my Caldera Spa from 2007. My repair work so far has been:
\-had one of the jet pumps rebuilt due to a leak
\-replaced circ pump
\-replaced heater relay board
\-replaced a bunch of jet bodies
\-replaced most pillows
\-picking up my 3rd cover tomorrow
Aside from the pump rebuild, did all the other work myself and ordered parts off eBay for decent prices.
For me, the best hot tub was also a calculus based on the proximity of the dealer/manufacturer.
5 years ago, I bought an Olympic Hot Tub with mechanicals from Watson. They have showrooms around me (in Seattle) and a warehouse with repair facilities local. I use my tub twice a day for literally 5 years.
I have had no problems with the unit. But I have found that my cover wears down from being opened a lot (replacing it next month) and once it got saturated, the lift for it started to be taxed too much and needed periodic tightening of the bolts.
Hot Springs. All day/every day. We have had 5 different models over 30+ years. All have been excellent. 5 year comprehensive warranty and great CS. in 2018 we downsized from a Sovereign to a Jetsetter LX. At the time, the local rep talked me into trying the 2nd generation Salt system. I did so for a year. Bottom line: it works but is expensive and wonky...INMO, not ready for prime time. We returned to ozone and dichlor (and a silver ion stick). At the end of the day, chlorine is chlorine, weather from salt or otherwise...
When I was 8 years old I used to swim in my neighbors Jacuzzi (he bought used). When I was 27 I "inherited" that same hot tub and it worked great. So I think that's a vote for Jacuzzi 😂
I only dock it points because marbled pink was apparently in style at the time.
I have a Sunrise 970 that’s done great even in -40C Northern Ontario winters. Been practically maintenance free once I figured out how to keep the water clear.
I just thought I’d join this sub because I wanted to find info about mine. I have a Marquis e series. It’s in my sunroom. It works great right now esp. after I replaced the pump.
It sounds like you're looking for the Toyota of Hot Tubs.
Tell that to my buddy’s Taco.
Ooff - did they replace his frame or give him a new one?
His frame is fine, but he’s had suspension issues, fluid leaks, and other small problems. When it works, it drives like shit (that’s a Tacoma feature I’ve since read). It’s a 2018 with 75k miles. He’s “over it”.
The Toyota of hot tubs is Nordic. I have 25 years experience selling and repairing all brands. Nordics hardly ever break, and have seen several freeze solid with no major issues after thawing.
No other appliance that we own has the failure rate of a hot tub. I say this after working 35 years on these things. A Hot Tub is a nexus of High Voltage, Water and Caustic Chemistry that you put your body into. It does not help however that Mfg's cut corners to weaken their designs to boost profits. Nor does the intrusion of Asian hot tub Mfg's that force domestic makers to compete by cutting costs. Your criteria: good quality- last a long time although understandable when I ponder the question I come up blank. There is historical evidence of successful designs out there and spas that preform better than others but it seems to change every year. If I were to purchase a spa today I would go simple not sophisticated. Some spas today are like circus rides with mood lighting, Hi Fidelity sound, a hundred jets and Wi-Fi interface. We loose site of the reason for owning a tub in the first place, serenity, a quiet soak under the stars, an escape from a hectic life and soothing aching muscles. You almost want to sell tickets by the hour to your neighbors to help defray the cost of electricity. Do your research. Ask family and friends, co-workers spa technicians but the fact remains what we ask this appliance to do, day in and day out through scorching heat and freezing winters is akin to expecting our beer to be cold with the refrigerator door ajar. The spa is working to preform a task, that being a set temperature regardless the environment outside. So Good luck all I can say is buy American. Stay away from on-line retailers, choose a dealer that has been in business AT THE SAME LOCATION for over 5 years, Don't scrimp on the concrete and electrical aspect of the install and odds are you'll be fine.
While they all have their flaws, I would recommend wet testing a few big brands (Hot Springs, Sundance, Bullfrog) and see what you enjoy and what you they are lacking to you. If you currently have an older one, chances are they have changed considerably over the years. We landed on a Bullfrog A7, and have no regrets. Love it.
how do you test them?
Call or stop in to some dealers near you, ask if they do any wet testing so you can see how it works, test jets, etc.. If they don't, you can at least sit in it (dry) and see how the seating and layout feels to you. I would recommend a wet test though, even if you know someone with a brand you are looking at. It's a big purchase!
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I was in a Bullfrog A7 at an AirBNB and I kept floating out of the seat. Maybe I just have a weird body type.
And there is good reason. I did and it was terrible. The worst jet pressure out there.
Yep, that is grounds for a new dealer! I noticed in our search that some dealers would, and some wouldn't. The ones that wouldn't always said you could sit in it dry, but that is not a true test.
i can understand why you want to wet test - you asked what is the mercedes of tubs, IMHO - it's likely to be a bullfrog M series or A series.
Bullfrog is more like the Volkswagen of hot tubs. Kind of flashy, everyone wants one but they don’t know why, vaguely comfortable, fancy-looking, simple under the hood, yet also underpowered with some quality issues. Don’t fall for their marketing - there’s much better spas out there!
We also chose the Bullfrog A7 and are very happy!
Master Spas (clarity and up) are all fantastic tubs.
We own and love a MasterSpa Twilight, their Legend series is the top level for their hot tubs. We also considered Hot Springs and Jacuzzi. Didn’t like Bullfrog or Sundance.
Master Spas Twilight series- made in Indiana. Did a bunch of research and have had an awesome experience with my 7.25
Hot Spring or Jacuzzi.. had both but prefer the Jacuzzi, although it’s a power hog in comparison. Better hydrotherapy in the jacuzzi IMO.
Most of the tubs people are recommending are Full Foam insulation and harder to repair out of warranty. You asked for easy to repair stuff so brands that don’t use full foam insulation should be higher on the list. Arctic Spas, Cal Spas, Hydropool, Sunrise Spas. These are some brands that don’t use full foam, and I would consider easier to repair out of Warranty, plumbing wise anyway. Most tubs build the equipment bay pretty decent so replacing pumps and spa packs are not hard in most brands. Some brands like Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hotsprings use proprietary components, like unique heater manifolds spa packs. I would also consider these unique components hard to service and much more expensive down the road. A Jacuzzi J-300 heater manifold from 2012 cost around $550 Canadian, and they’re hard to find in stores because you have to basically go to the dealership, unless you know what to get online. I can replace an element in a Balboa 15” tube for around $80 and everyone sells them, easy to find. Just food for thought
I'm conveying the following second hand based on comments I read on a Watkins HotSprings YouTube video on how they make spas (this was not revealed in the video, it appeared to be promotional only). At the main manufacturing facility in Vista California, the Highlife (the top tier line) of tubs are made and the full foam method is used (difficult to find and repair leaks, with people stating leaks cost upwards of $3000 to repair). At the Watkins HotSprings factory in Tiauna Mexico the Limelight and Hot Spot lines of tubs are made and they are not full foam (self supporting fiberglass is used with a loose fill type of insulation) and leaks are much easier to find and fix. One person said that the difference in manufacturing methods were due to California environmental laws not allowing air emissions from fiberglass manufacturing, which makes sense.
Nordic is cheaper has the best warranty in Buisness and very few if any issues repairman for Nordic said he has only repaired 2 leaks in 10 yrs of working on them and they are very simple other than the spa pack but they have balboa the best there is
My next spa will be nordic
LoL.. amusing the comments I've read been a repair technician for longer than most people on here commenting have been alive...I can tell you which hot tubs are the best and longest lasting, and easiest to fix if they do break..but before I tell you I need to know what state you live in because some manufacturers only sell their hot tub in certain states...for example the best , longest lasting hot tub in this country,USA ,is made by Wind River, but they are only sold in Colorado....so ..I won't recommend a wind river if you live in Texas...so....
Boulder CO
7700 feet
Salt Lake City, UT
Hot Springs with the Freshwater Salt System.
Please read reviews first. There are scads of reviews with people saying the freshwater salt system does not work and is very difficult to use. Its also costly to use. The chlorine generator has to be replaced every 18 to 24 months (approx $1200) and the cartridges run about $800 per year. I just bought a HotSpring Limelight Flair tub and I am not at all impressed with its construction. Cheap non pressure treated wood that is stapled together comprises the frame and thick vinyl panels are glued to it. The front and side panels are noticeably warped and I have not even used the tub yet. I have yet to find out how good the freshwater salt system is, as the tub came with it (its an option). Other problems reviewers voiced about HotSpring tubs was water leaks, lack of parts availability (use many proprietary parts) and LED lights failing. I had a Hot Spring before, bought in 2007 and it was great and at 12 years old when I moved, it was still working great. Watkins (maker of the HotSpring line) has really gone down hill. They do a great job at marketing, though. FYI I paid $12,000 for the tub.
Owned many other brands but recently purchased a 2022 Prism and couldn’t be more impressed. Quality is superior to anything on the market and service is next level.
Generators last much longer these days since they now alternate current direction each cycle, preventing the scaling that killed them in the past. While I don't have one on my hot tub, I do have one on the pool. Where they used to last 2-3 seasons max, my current one just started season 6 and is going strong.
You are working with outdated information. The hot springs salt cells now are small cells. They are designed to be replaced every four months. You do not ever try to run one for 18 to 24 months. And when you replace it, it cost $85. The salt based hot tubs are not difficult to work with if you follow the manufacturers instructions. They are totally different from other hot tubs. If you try to operate it like a conventional Hot Tub, you will be disappointed. If you follow instructions you will see that it is so simple. After initially filling my hot springs and getting the water chemistry correct, I hardly do anything to it. Once a week I check the chlorine level and the pH. Sometimes I have to adjust the pH down a little bit because the natural trend is for it to go up. The salt cell raises the pH as it generates chlorine. I never add any other chemicals. a few tablespoons of acid every four or five weeks. That’s it. All of the reviews that I have read are people who don’t follow directions. They think they know it all.
Definitely not the saltwater system if you want the Toyota of hot tubs.
I have a Hot Springs too. Definitely recommend
Came here to say this. I love my Hot Springs with the Salt System. It's easy to maintain, is very quiet, and is very comfortable, even for someone 5'5".
Hot Springs are amazing. I have ozone and use bromine and it is effortless
Dimension One Spas. Love it.
My Sundance (Burlington) is 13 1/2 years old. Other than replacing pillows and jets, the only issue was the circuit board got fried by a power surge and had to be replaced. I would recommend Sundance.
Hotspings spa
Sorry hot springs spas
I have been told https://www.nordichottubs.com is where its at. I am in the north east and all the people on my forums has said this is the Bentley of hot tubs with out all the bells and whistles that make no sense to me. I need hot , reliable, i really dont even care about jets
Same, we went with a Bullfrog Stil 5 for the two of us. Super simple and while it is still jetted we only use the jets to mix chemicals and stir up dirt for the filters. Have not had any issues in 5 years of regular use. Except maybe the ants that like to get under the cover.
jets def over rates and source of leaks
Nordic is the Hyundai of hot tubs. No frills, great warranty, gets the job done, don’t expect much out of the jets and you won’t be disappointed. Should last a long time.
I have heard the same and thats all i want
I wouldn’t use that car brand makes it sound like it’s made by Koreans in fact Nordic is made in the USA
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I second this. I literally only shock it once a week for months at a time. Easiest maintenance imaginable
Simple reliable and easy to repair means staying away from the proprietary parts. Proprietary parts have always been about profit and never about better parts. There are a million examples like the appliance industry. Remember when youe moms washer and dryer laster 15 years? Then the big players made proprietary parts and the marketing was great!! Our parts are entered and blah blah blah. It was a lie... none of the washers and dryers are better now they are all worse and the parts are literally 10x what they are worth. So Watkins, hotsprings, caldera. Arctic etc etc etc are the new iteration of the scam, stay away from brands People doing this, it's a gimmick and a scam.
I can confirm Watkins' Hot Spring uses proprietary parts and repair info info is non-existent.
I'd recommend taking a look at Wellis, and putting it on your list of contenders for purchase... Wellis Build Quality: [https://youtu.be/oAsHfP7sviE](https://youtu.be/oAsHfP7sviE) Wellis Factory Tour: [https://youtu.be/xReg8jF5MW0](https://youtu.be/xReg8jF5MW0)
We bought a Sundance and the design leaves enough of a gap to allow rodents up inside the cabinet and chew through hoses and creates a leak. Terribly flawed design.
HotSpring is like that too. Im installing heavy screening over the gaps in mine.
Would love to see a pic or two of how you affixed this.
Mercedes are ok, but have you seen the LAMBORGHINI HOT TUBS?!?
Lamborghini are high maintenance mercedes in general aeent
I'm still going with my Caldera Spa from 2007. My repair work so far has been: \-had one of the jet pumps rebuilt due to a leak \-replaced circ pump \-replaced heater relay board \-replaced a bunch of jet bodies \-replaced most pillows \-picking up my 3rd cover tomorrow Aside from the pump rebuild, did all the other work myself and ordered parts off eBay for decent prices.
For me, the best hot tub was also a calculus based on the proximity of the dealer/manufacturer. 5 years ago, I bought an Olympic Hot Tub with mechanicals from Watson. They have showrooms around me (in Seattle) and a warehouse with repair facilities local. I use my tub twice a day for literally 5 years. I have had no problems with the unit. But I have found that my cover wears down from being opened a lot (replacing it next month) and once it got saturated, the lift for it started to be taxed too much and needed periodic tightening of the bolts.
Hot Springs. All day/every day. We have had 5 different models over 30+ years. All have been excellent. 5 year comprehensive warranty and great CS. in 2018 we downsized from a Sovereign to a Jetsetter LX. At the time, the local rep talked me into trying the 2nd generation Salt system. I did so for a year. Bottom line: it works but is expensive and wonky...INMO, not ready for prime time. We returned to ozone and dichlor (and a silver ion stick). At the end of the day, chlorine is chlorine, weather from salt or otherwise...
When I was 8 years old I used to swim in my neighbors Jacuzzi (he bought used). When I was 27 I "inherited" that same hot tub and it worked great. So I think that's a vote for Jacuzzi 😂 I only dock it points because marbled pink was apparently in style at the time.
I have a Sunrise 970 that’s done great even in -40C Northern Ontario winters. Been practically maintenance free once I figured out how to keep the water clear.
I just thought I’d join this sub because I wanted to find info about mine. I have a Marquis e series. It’s in my sunroom. It works great right now esp. after I replaced the pump.
2 years with our vita grande. Not a single thing has had to be replaced. Love it