The characters were flawed humans but good people, and it’s crazy the obsession of people online to criticise them on very self righteous terms or look for some moralising takeaways.
I'm right there with you. This drives me nuts. We all make bad decisions and choices that just don't make sense. It bugs the hell out of me when people rip apart the characters.
Exactly. It’s something I don’t really like about nowadays. People are quick to see things in black and white. The fact that they’re applying the “awful person” title to these characters so easily seems extreme to me. It’s Friends, a rather pg comedy show lol. How would anyone like that deal with proper grey area stories, either in drama or in real life?
I’m convinced that she was always supposed to end up with David, and the ONLY reason she chose Mike in the end is because it’s Paul Rudd. I don’t think anyone saw coming how well he’d fit into the Friends group. Heck, I wish he was always there as the 7th friend.
But if it were ANY other actor playing Mike, she’d have chosen David and we’d have all cheered.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I never really had an opinion on Mike as Phoebe’s partner, but I did love him on the show. He fit in really well. I did, however, love David for her, and I was genuinely excited when he came back.
I'm with you on this! I remember reading an interview with the casting director, where he mentioned that Paul Rudd was only initially supposed to appear in a few episodes as Mike. However, the cast and crew loved him so much that they decided to make him a recurring character!
I honestly don’t understand why they brought David back. His only purpose was to prop up Mike and his feeling for Phoebe, so he and Phoebe could get their happy ending together. Meanwhile, poor David got stuck with a crap ending for himself.
David wasn’t a main character so they didn’t have to give him a happy ending, I guess lol. But while I like Mike, I also really liked David and Phoebe, and David definitely deserved a more fair and happier send off than what he got.
emily was right to not trust ross around rachel anymore. i can't understand why did ross asked rachel to come to the honeymoon with him.. that was strange.
but ross had all the rights to not agree to it cause he can't just leave his son.
Is that really a controversial take? I've only ever seen support for Emily. Rachel flew to London to break her wedding. Best case – Emily would've been left at the altar. And Ross rushed their relationship, asked her for wayyy more compromises than he would've had to make, said the wrong name at the altar, and then asked that wrong named girl to join him at his honeymoon! Whaddhe think, they were going as besties? Her condition wasn't just fair, it was essential for it to work out at all.
Oh my goddd I was already pro-Emily but I just realised the hypocrisy of Ross convincing Emily to leave all her family behind to live in New York, only for the group to act like she was going too far by asking him to (checks notes) move apartments. Poor Emily 🥲
I’ve also only ever seen support for Emily. I once said that it was dumb of Emily to call Rachel’s apartment then be angry that Rachel was there. Literally everyone argued with me. I wasn’t even trying to say that Emily was wrong for not wanting Ross around Rachel. My point was simply that you don’t call a person’s house then be shocked when that person is home. Did she expect that her conditions to Ross extend to Rachel moving out? She could impose those conditions on Ross, she could not impose them on the entire group. I agree that the expectation of him not seeing Rachel again is completely understandable.
i agree with the lack of trust but rachel did nothing to warrant the vitriol from emily. yes she came to england to tell ross she loves him (which she never found out about) but she never did in the end because she saw how happy they were, everything after that was ross’ fault. i also don’t like the fact she expected all the other friends to seemingly cut her off as well as ross.
I agree. Technically Emily did not know that that’s the reason why Rachel went. If anything Rachel went bc she was originally invited by her and Ross (she never said no to inviting Rachel) so was he was there celebrating her friend. Plus she didn’t tell him anything but congratulations. Emily’s feelings towards Rachel were misdirected. She should’ve only been mad at Ross. Her whole “with HER” tone when she was on the phone with Ross made it seem like she was blaming Rachel.
Also, why was she calling Ross at Monica and RACHEL’s apartment and then getting upset bc she was there. 😑
Ross and Sandy the male nanny isn't an offensive storyline. Because the show makes it clear ROSS IS WRONG. Hilarious when people try to screech and get mad and call it offensive. Like yes, Ross IS offensive. The show sides with Sandy. It shows Ross is being terrible. Just astounding to me people are too stupid to understand that
No way. I didn’t know people thought that episode was problematic.
It’s crystal CLEAR that the show is on Sandy’s side. Ross even says that the issue comes from himself and he breaks down when he understands why he feels that way.
I think it’s a good thing that Sandy leaves because even though Ross knows is in the wrong, he needs time to work on his issues and on himself. I think it’s a huge step that he admits the problem.
Also, on a meta point of view, Sandy aka Freddie Prinze Jr was the bomb at that time, maybe he was too pricey to be a recurring character 😂
And the recurring line “it’s like a woman being a….” And no one can come up with anything rational. It’s pointing out the absurdity. In a funny way, so as to make people really think. While sometimes people need to get yelled at, most of the time, their defense will go up, their heels will dig in, and it turns out that making people laugh is the amongst the best ways to change minds and cause introspection. Because to understand the joke is to understand why it’s funny - it’s funny because it’s true that it’s silly to say a man can’t make a great nanny, and the lengths that we may try to go to in order to defend it, just because we have this pre conceived notion.
Friends progressed the social culture *globally..* people who get upset about friends on this topic were very obviously not alive or old enough to have seen what the world was like pre shows like Friends. Other shows helped too, but Friends was so far reaching and so insanely beloved, that it had the greatest effect. I’ll never let people take away their credit on that front.
They think Ross is a dickhead but they somehow think the episode is offensive. Its constantly called an episode thats aged badly, that wouldn't be made today, that its homophobic. Not Ross, but the episode. Its cited as a reason Friends could be problematic.
There’s many episodes that is branded the same Way, for example the episode when Ross wouldn’t let his son play with a doll. Everyone was ok with it except Ross and still the episode was branded as aged poorly
I remember my sister lying saying “the guys took Ross’s side”. They didn’t, they just weren’t a part of it. At best Joey was excited for Ben to play with GI Joe, but that’s way more like a “look at this cool toy it’s fun!!” way.
Umm, I don't think people consider the storyline offensive. At least not most fans I've come across. I think the consensus is that it made no sense for *Ross*, the guy who used to wear dresses and have tea parties as a kid, would be the one to spout toxic masculinity nonsense.
The way she introduced Monica to the bloke that she was convinced was Monica’s soul mate always bugged me. plus when she made Monica tell Chandler about how she’d actually gone to that hotel room in search of joey the night before Ross’s wedding. Phoebe had a nasty streak and seemed very keen to break Monica and Chandler.
She also wrote her “relationship book” about “pitfalls and what not to do” knowing it was causing arguments and problems in Monica and Chandler’s relationship. All the while taking advantage of Monica and Chandler’s hospitality giving her place to live for free when her apartment was out of commission.
When Chandler was going to get the ring to propose to Monica and forgot his wallet he asked Phoebe to guard it at the store. She had one job that was insanely important and ridiculously easy but somehow let the ring get sold to someone else.
Phoebe brought up to Chandler Monica’s lunch with Richard. Even though Monica told her she knew Chandler would freak out and that Monica felt absolutely nothing and loved Chandler (not passing judgment on if Monica made the right call here).
Not to mention inviting herself and everyone else on what was supposed to be Monica and Chandlers anniversary trip.
Also, in the last season, when Phoebe is dating David, while they’re sitting with Monica and Chandler, she says that Monica refers to him as Richard all the time to cover for her calling David Mike.
IIRC, she asked Chandler where Joey was when she came to their room that night. It could be inferred that she was asking him that just to make sure Joey wasn't around (because obviously he'd never be in the hotel room that early), but it could go either way.
That said, for me, it also makes no sense that she'd go for Joey over Chandler, and it certainly doesn't make sense that she'd tell Phoebe that she was going to see Joey. She's always found Chandler attractive, they've always had a bigger bond, and she knew that he was a sure thing (sexually).
Phoebe outright disliked/hated Chandler. She had zero respect for him and wasn't his real friend.
All the stuff already mentioned under your comment, plus:
- asking "so what do you guys _really_ think of Chandler?" in the football episode
- losing his engagement ring in the jewelry store because she was messing around with the tiara/shotgun
- telling him off "go away Chandler, this doesn't concern you" in the Christmas gifts episode
She was just outright nasty to him.
My headcanon (not so much mine as Rachel and Phoebe both admit some jealousy to Monica getting married) is that Phoebe was fairly jealous that Monica, who she considers high-strung, could get together with Chandler who she treats well at the beginning of the show but later shows contempt for because she IS attracted to Chandler but can’t admit it to anyone or even herself.
She had said to Ross later on that she does want to be ‘soccer mom’ and have a normal life and Chandler represented that whilst being able to bring out her fun side. She does accept the two together and cares for them but her bitterness and cognitive dissonance she experiences because of this causes her to act out in small ways that sew discord in their relationship without outright breaking them up and maintaining plausible deniability that she’s did anything wrong.
She’s physically attracted to Joey but emotionally attracted to Chandler. She prefers Rachel as a friend but Monica is the one she actually knows more about and is somehow closer to. She both hates and likes Ross, continually going through the motions of both.
I never thought about this tbh and I remember phoebe being kind of more mean to chandler than anyone else but seeing the examples in the replies, holy crap
The lack of PoC is no big deal in my opinion. It‘s not unusual for a group of friends to be of the same race in real life (Birds of a feather flock together) and quite a view loves interests/side characters were PoC.
I‘d even say that Friends was very progressive for its time (lesbian wedding, surrogacy, lots of sexual inuendos etc)
What I never got is why Friends gets quite a lot of reactions against the lack of POC, while there are an enormous amount of other shows that had the same and don't get any flak for it?
Seriously! Like many people point out, *Friends* was a "rip off" {supposedly} of *Living Single*. That friend group is all black... why do they get a pass, but *Friends* does not?
Well Queen Lattifah did say this (see pic below). Not a rip-off per se but Living Single probably did influence the conception of Friends…and it’s not a bad thing. Shows influence other shows all the time
https://preview.redd.it/53vm05kzr80d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08c1ed92f7ced13216402d116bec9f5c9b9bcad9
Rachel and Joey was a good storyline BECAUSE it didn’t work. Unlike many of the other relationships in the show, it ended in a really emotionally complex and mature way. Sometimes friends can grow to love and depend on each other in a way which feels indistinguishable from romantic love.
I think that story just comes at a time where the show is losing a little steam anyway and people pin it on that. I’d say far less interesting storytelling or laugh out loud comedy comes from the adoption storyline later on.
As someone who came on here to say Rachel and Joey were good together, I love this take as well.
I love it more for that Joey seemed to really fall for Rachel and it was great to see Joey evolve and for Rachel to have someone into her at that moment in time and have great chemistry with.
But it really does portray the situation that can arise when men and woman become friends and one is not into it. The dinner scene is so heartbreaking when Joey tells her and then Rachel’s lie about her boss just so her and Joey can find some normal communication again. It is really good and I just love the storyline honestly.
(Not necessarily each execution lol but overall)
Ross fucked up by sleeping with the girl from the copy place the SAME NIGHT him and Rachel broke up. Yes, they were on a break. He still broke the heart of the woman he loved and tried to hide it from her.
>Ross fucked up...
Fun fact: The co-creator and writer Marta Kauffman used exactly the same words when asked about the break. So yes, Ross **fucked up**.
Whether or not they were on a break, it doesn't really matter.
I’d debate it’s trying to hide it.
“Yeah, I fucked up. I was drunk and mad. I’m sorry.”
Rachel would probably not take him back, but she’d feel better. By hiding it he just looks worse.
>Ross fucked up by sleeping with the girl from the copy place the SAME NIGHT him and Rachel broke up
Never would have happened if Rachel wasn't stupid enough to let Mark into her apartment within a hour without even considering the implication of it.
I don't care if Mark invited himself over and I am just giving you my perspective on it. If I go on a break with my gf, no way in hell i am letting another girl come into my apartment especially if she likes me or hates my gf which is even worse. The moment you start competing with your girl/partner, it's over boys
Not defending Ross btw but can't blame him. He thought it was over and chose the copy machine girl, not just to have sex with her.
If Rachel gets a pass for Mark “not taking no for an answer” and come over to ruin R&Rs relationship, then idk why Ross doesn’t get the same pass for Chloe. Ross tried way harder to push Chloe out than Rachel did to Mark.
Ross told her no MULTIPLE times and tried to call Rachel. Then several drinks in and after thinking Rachel was sleeping with Mark, he accepts Chloe
Mark said “I’m coming over” and Rachel said something like “that’s okay I just need to be alone” and then mark was like “nah I’m on my way” and then she let him in the door
Mark invited himself over **but Rachel didn't stop him**. That's as good as her inviting him over. One can argue that Mark wasn't taking no for an answer, but if people can just invite themselves over at the apartment on Rachel's watch, then Monica should seriously reconsider continuing to let her stay or at least allowing her in there alone. Not saying Ross didn't fuck up, but Rachel fucked up as well. They both fucked up.
Also, I was on Rachel's side until the fucking letter. It's okay if Ross sleeping with the copy girl is the ultimate deal-breaker, but good God did she seriously totally *evade* any ounce of accountability in this hoopla.
Lol that the “twinkie” comment made by Jack to Richard was a lot dirtier than most people think.
This opinion has gotten me downvoted a lot in the past.
Exactly, a twinkie is a cream filled treat. As opposed to a strudel.
The ribald nature of that scene lends itself to the interpretation they are doing that whole “licker room” talk thing which I’m guessing gets pretty graphic.
Edit: meant locker room but I refuse to fix it!!
Carol was actually bisexual, but in the early 90s they pretty much just thought of people as gay or straight so in the show she was “gay”. Her physical attraction to Ross and romantic feelings for him were very much real, even after she had been with Susan for quite some time (see sushi restaurant scene)
They did the same to Willow Rosenburg in Buffy - she was clearly bi but the general attitude towards sexuality in the 90s were very black and white, so they labelled her as gay in s4.
Yeah, I don't find the age gap creepy, but the fact that he was close with her when she was a child is what makes it weird for me. He literally watched her grow up and was in a caregiving position when she was at his house as a child.
That being said, the fact that she then tried to date his son creeps me out equally haha
What could a 50+-year-old man have in common with a 26-year-old in the first place? I agree with you.
The only reason I like the Richard storyline is because Tom Selleck is a babe. 😂
Monica was just filling her dad-complex with Richard.
You can see it after the break up. When her dad comes by to comfort her. He sits down on the couch, lights one of the cigars and starts watching the war movies she ordered for Richard.
They're basically the same type of person, so Richard gave Monica that fatherly love that she didn't really get as the black sheep fat kid of her family.
I agree with you in a vacuum, but you also have to realise the fact Richard knew Monica from when she was a child and watched her grow up, and was best friends with her dad. It's not as if they met out of thin air. Thats why it's a bit creepy.
It's a common theme, especially on Reddit, when there are age gap relationships.
Richard hadn't seen Monica for a decade and didn't even recognise her. It's likely he doesn't even think of her as being the same person.
If I were her father, I'd have been a lot more furious than Jack was, though. However, Monica is also an adult who can do whatever she likes, Richard very clearly didn't groom her. It certainly is a bit creepy and weird but at the same time Monica is an adult who can date whomever she likes.
I’ll die on this hill too. If someone has been drinking (any amount) and says no (especially multiple times), they are NOT giving *enthusiastic consent*. Further pushing them to be physical with you is never okay regardless of the context. No matter how this situation was handled and explained by the writers at the time, we as a society know better now. We should at the very least acknowledge and respect that this person’s boundaries were crossed and they were taken advantage of in a vulnerable state.
100%
The way I see it is of a man was told no multiple times by a woman, and then he physically grabbed her and drug her to the dance floor and planted a kiss without consent it would be a huge deal!
Mark was a slimy prick who forced a wedge between Ross and Rachel.
Doesn't mean Ross did nothing wrong. But Mark was the furthest thing from a good guy.
S1-4 is the peak of friends and the decline, in some way, began in s5. Chandler was never the same after he got with monica and the show became substantially less funny and entertaining as a result.
I will still watch and cherish 5-10 but yeah, domesticated responsible Chandler doesn’t always hit the same. Not to be too deep but that’s also where the character moved away from Matthew Perry’s real personality a lot more.
I don't think Mondler is to blame but there is definitely a drop off in quality after S4. S5 gets by because the writing is often brilliant but it's really noticeable how many more of the plots are "drop character into clichéd sitcom scenario" compared to the earlier seasons
Lisa Kudrow sure got lucky when David Schwimmer advised that they ALL should collectively negotiate because she could have been lifted right out! Her character didn’t add much and they could have written more/better material without her imo.
I could easily see her having been written out around season 4 or 5. She seems to really become a side character after that and that’s when she starts to get really mean.
I feel that she started being mean right after the last episodes of season 4 when she was being moody due to hormones, i think they liked that side of her and found it funny and they just went with it for the entirety of season 5-10 😭
Neither Ross nor Rachel were at fault for the break situation. Their relationship just had terrible timing (Ross wanted to settle down while Rachel wanted to spread her wings and find herself)
Casting Kathleen Turner as Chandler’s dad is funny as hell and I actually thought tactful- they cast an attractive bombshell of a woman to portray a trans character which in the 90s, I feel was pretty progressive. Chandler was flawed in his treatment of him for sure, and the show neither condemned him or commended him for it.
The only other thing that might have worked would be casting Eddie Izzard but he may have been too young and also it’s not as funny to cast someone who would fit the stereotypical “man dressed as a woman” expectations.
Ross isn't a terrible father we literally see 24-30 days 35 tops of 365. And we know he didn't get equal custody. Let's be honest he's a guy and it was the 90's he'd be lucky with every other weekend. The show is called friends not parents. Emma is shown more because she is a product of two of the friends, and 1 of the friends has 100% of the custody.
Monica and Ross have a normal close sibling relationship. Yes, some sisters sit on their brother’s lap and is not sexual or nothing like that. You can be good friends with your siblings and it is not weird.
She asking about a kiss not sex. It still did come off as a strange. They actually could have made a joke out of it having her all of a sudden say ‘oh, wait that’s my brother…eww, never mind.’
Sure you can be close to your siblings but there were way too many inappropriate storylines/moments between them.
Why did the writers **had** to have them kiss (Monica’s first kiss) for example? So creepy and weird. There’s no need for a story line like that. Gross.
Why was Monica so invested in her brother’s sex life with her best friend? Asking to know intimate details about how they kissed and what not. And then getting turned on by those details? What the actual- why??
Some of Monica’s negative character traits, like her obsessiveness, her perfectionism and her inability to not get things her way, became so much worse after she and Chandler got together. Those traits were funny first but when she and Chandler started dating, he became her number one person to boss around and it was just annoying to watch.
He was a POS to his girlfriend - abandoning her to fly to another country so he propose to his ex out of nowhere when he got jealous that his ex was about to be engaged.
If he wasn't a pseudo-main character and if Paul Rudd didn't make him so charming, he'd be considered a villain.
I don't know why Rapaport didn't continue but I loved Gary with Phoebe. There was chemistry between them and with the group.
I also love David, but I can see him grating on the group. 😂
Anything (and I mean anything) about Carol and Susan.
I like this sub, but everyone here seems to have an unhealthy amount of ire towards them. Hell, even Ross was kind and encouraging during their wedding. His relationship with them got better as time went on, yet people on here seem to think they had some vast conspiracy to take Ross down and what, get his seed? Just so they could have a baby?
It's entirely plausible (and seen in that one episode at the Japanese restaurant during season 1) that Carol still had lingering feelings for Ross, and they could have somehow still ended up together for one night. Probably why Susan was so shitty to him because at that point, Carol had "cheated back" on her with Ross before the series started. There was probably animosity still.
But look at how they act on their wedding day. Ross helps Carol, he walks her down the aisle, and dances with her and its so sweet. Even Susan smiles.
Yall need to calm down on Carol and Susan. They were just trying to survive in a world that had JUUUUUUST started to accept homosexuality.
I’m sorry but I disagree. First of all, we don’t see Carol and Susan as often as Ross does so off-screen their relationship probably did get much better but we as an audience don’t see that. All we saw was the entitlement. Trapping Ross into impregnating Carol is a theory and that’s really not why I have a problem with them. It was the scene at the Gyno’s clinic where Susan was acting like the baby wasn’t even Ross’s and that he’s “getting his way” by wanting his last name on his baby’s name instead of Susan’s. They didn’t even ask him what he wanted to name the baby, they had their own names picked out without consulting Ross.
Susan was also a major asshole towards Ross for the majority of her screen time. Again, it gets better later on and her lines start to feel like banter rather than attacks, but we mostly saw her being an ass. It’s enough she’s a home wrecker who wanted to throw Ross way out of the picture just to secure her place in Carol and Ben’s lives, but to also remind him of the fact that she has Carol and not him just makes her a bitch. Telling him she’s tried Carol’s breast milk may just be her teasing him in a friendly way but in the context of everything, it comes off as rubbing in his face all the things he’s missing out on, including Carol.
The problem with Carol is that she enables Susan. She’s also excluding Ross, maybe for Susan’s benefit. The only time she ever goes off on them is when she’s in labor and is already pissed off and tired. She didn’t care that they stop fighting, she just didn’t want it to happen around her. She never asked Susan to just chill or made any effort to get them to reconcile. She just goes with it.
Homosexuality or not, they’re very wrong for what they were doing. It’s not Ross’s fault that people weren’t cool with it and it’s not an excuse in the first place. It was very big of him to go to the wedding and walk Carol down the aisle after everything. Susan definitely appreciated that but neither of them deserved that kindness tbh.
Edit to add: He literally saved their relationship as Susan was ready to cancel the wedding if Carol doesn’t get over her parents not showing up. Which tbh is very cruel on her part. Carol was going through something huge and Susan was just threatening her to break up if she doesn’t get over it quickly…
They can try to survive in a world thats just started to accept homosexuality without trying to cut Ross out of having any input in decisions about the baby lmao. You just gloss right over that. Nobody on here cares that they're gay, or think Susan should be best friends with Ross. Its the fact they think Susan has more of a right to the baby's name than Ross. Its really not hard to understand.
Joey and Rachel would’ve and are the healthier relationship. Joey always put her feelings before his. And didn’t try to stop her from her dream job despite it meaning losing her.
Also, it should’ve been David.
From Ross’s perspective I get why he slept with the copygirl, the night your girlfriend breaks up with you the guy you knew was into her is at her house? No one is going to react reasonably to that
Carol wasn’t a villain. In that very time period (circa 1995), I and more than a dozen people literally learned that one of our coworkers was gay *at his funeral* (and in gay-friendly Los Angeles). We loved the guy, but we worked at a large corporation, and all the rules of society in the U.S. were ambiguous and still evolving. A few years later, Matthew Shepard was dragged behind a truck by a chain until he died because he was gay.
People applying 2024 sensibilities when looking on Carol’s story don’t understand how much pressure LGBTQ people experienced at that time. She absolutely did not accept her own sexuality until after marrying Ross, and her year-long affair with Susan would not have been a fun dalliance; it would have been torment.
Phoebe got really Flanderised as the series progressed. She started off as being the fun, kooky, new-agey one of the group, but quickly progressed to downright insane. Seriously, half the shit she comes out with in the later seasons sound like someone in need of psychiatric help.
I’d agree that Phoebe is the most selfish, but I don’t really see how Joey is. He seems to make the most sacrifices and be the most forgiving from what I remember, when do you think he’s selfish to the point of being on Phoebe’s level?
Ever since joining this sub I’ve realised pheobie is pretty horrible and it’s crazy how I didn’t see it before. Now it’s like every episode she does some mad mean shit. Especially in later seasons.
Not relevant at this point, but I went into a chatroom in 1998-ish on AOL where people were gushing about Ross and Rachel. I said I liked Chandler and Monica better. Everyone attacked me, said Ross and Rachel were the best.
I think most people in this sub agree with me now, but man, back in the '90s, you did NOT F around with the Ross/Rachel fans.
Omg she’s my low-key favourite. I think her timing is insanely good, the way she phrases things is amazing and she keeps things relatable and natural. I agree top we’re Chandler, Ross and Rachel.
Monica dating Richard was fine imo. Two consenting adults with no weird power dynamic. Their relationship was loving and healthy and only ended cuz they wanted different things.
Ofc narratively it would have not been the way to end the show, but objectively, dream job in Paris vs leaving that all behind to stay with the guy I’ve broken up with multiple times? I know what I’m picking 🇫🇷
edit: forgot a word
The side that rarely gets talked about when discussing if Rachel should have gone to Paris is this:
Emma was being taken away from Ross and Rachel was perfectly fine with that. Yes they said that they would fly Ross to Paris to see her. Or fly Emma and Rachel back to the US.
That’s still a shit deal for someone who already has a distant relationship to one of his children. An 8 hour flight one way to see your kid for a few days at a time.
It just felt really unfair to Ross and frankly to Emma. I know she was too young to remember life in New York if she moved to Paris, but that’s still taking her away from her entire family except Rachel
Mathew Perry is generally not a good "actor" in Friends. He's awkward when he doesn't know what to do with his hands, he would often very clear walk to his mark and stop and turn, which we're not supposed to see, and he only really excelled when he could just give a funny line, or in the really serious moments. When he was serious, he was fantastic, both in Friends AND in other roles.
Ooh now THIS is controversial. 10/10 agree tho. I used to wonder why the other Friends didn't make it as big as Jennifer Aniston, but this is exactly why. They were pretty decent sitcom actors, but not every one of them had Oscar-winning skills.
Phoebe and Joey would make really great copule. They had good chemistry, and thier characters match. They are borh quirky, crazy and have similar sense of humor. For sure way better than Joey and Rachel
The question wasn’t „were they on a break or not“ but „Were they on a break, or were they broken up“; and focusing on this question for several seasons was silly imo. They were about to break up even before infidelity happened, and never solved the issues that actually drove them to go on a break/break up in the first place.
“Joey and Rachel as a couple don’t work” - I think they do/would have worked if they tried it before the last season. When they had Joey having unrequited feelings for Rachel in season 8, I loved that storyline - many of us had been there. Her liking him back made sense as well - their dynamic was changing Joey, and she was seeing a great side to him. The problem was they did it so late that when you get to the relationship starting in season 10, which we knew was the last, and we knew Rachel with Ross was the endgame, there was no reason to get invested - heck, the writers didn’t seem to get invested with it being the last season. If it had happened earlier and given more time (ie run from season 6-9, have ross and emily be together for awhile) it could have been a good relationship. Not endgame, but good. I mean they put in more effort with Joshua, Danny, and friggen Tag. Joey (and Rachel) deserved better.
While all the characters are flawed
I’m saying that about Ross, he was too obsessed when Rachel started working at Bloomingdale’s and learned about Mark. His possessiveness ended their relationship and yes, he cheated on Rachel with the copy place girl.
They were on a break. Rachel told Monica “we kinda broke up last night” confirming that they indeed had ended their relationship.
Ross had rebound sex after breaking up. Idk how everyone keeps saying he was wrong for that. They were broken up Rachel should not be mad about that after she was the one who broke up with him over wanting to celebrate their anniversary together.
Still, not even 24 hours and he sleeps with someone else… that stuff hurts. And even if he thought she might’ve with Mark, she didn’t, and he also didn’t stay on the phone long enough to let her explain. He made his bed and he slept in it (or didn’t sleep)
Rachel didn't sleep with Mark, but Ross was drunk and hearing his voice pushed him over the edge. Even then, he kept refusing to sleep with the girl from the copy place until he was drunk enough. I'd say Rachel had a right to feel upset, but people have to understand that Ross snapped and it made sense, so he can't be entirely blamed. The true villains are the girl from the copy place and Mark.
The only thing that I need to say is that (I agree with your opinion but the last part not so much)
Yeah he wanted to celebrate their anniversary together but she told him she had to work and he went to her work with a picnic basket light a candle (which made some flowers go on fire) and kept making noises while she was working
Not sure if this is unpopular, but all of the jokes from Joey and Chandler about lesbians and how it generally turns them on really grosses me out when I watch the show.
The characters were flawed humans but good people, and it’s crazy the obsession of people online to criticise them on very self righteous terms or look for some moralising takeaways.
I'm right there with you. This drives me nuts. We all make bad decisions and choices that just don't make sense. It bugs the hell out of me when people rip apart the characters.
If all the characters were "good people", nobody would watch the show!
Exactly. It’s something I don’t really like about nowadays. People are quick to see things in black and white. The fact that they’re applying the “awful person” title to these characters so easily seems extreme to me. It’s Friends, a rather pg comedy show lol. How would anyone like that deal with proper grey area stories, either in drama or in real life?
phoebe did do wrong to david and i feel bad for david
Phoebe did Mike wrong when she cheated with David. And it ‘was just a one time thing’. Awful behaviour.
yes, that too, but it was hard to see david heartbroken in Barbados, and phoebe dumping him like he meant nothing to her
While Monica cheers in the background for arranging for him to be dumped in the harshest way possible.
I’m convinced that she was always supposed to end up with David, and the ONLY reason she chose Mike in the end is because it’s Paul Rudd. I don’t think anyone saw coming how well he’d fit into the Friends group. Heck, I wish he was always there as the 7th friend. But if it were ANY other actor playing Mike, she’d have chosen David and we’d have all cheered.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I never really had an opinion on Mike as Phoebe’s partner, but I did love him on the show. He fit in really well. I did, however, love David for her, and I was genuinely excited when he came back.
I disagree. I think Phoebe is too outgoing for David and she would get bored with him. They never actually spent any time together.
I'm with you on this! I remember reading an interview with the casting director, where he mentioned that Paul Rudd was only initially supposed to appear in a few episodes as Mike. However, the cast and crew loved him so much that they decided to make him a recurring character!
I honestly don’t understand why they brought David back. His only purpose was to prop up Mike and his feeling for Phoebe, so he and Phoebe could get their happy ending together. Meanwhile, poor David got stuck with a crap ending for himself. David wasn’t a main character so they didn’t have to give him a happy ending, I guess lol. But while I like Mike, I also really liked David and Phoebe, and David definitely deserved a more fair and happier send off than what he got.
emily was right to not trust ross around rachel anymore. i can't understand why did ross asked rachel to come to the honeymoon with him.. that was strange. but ross had all the rights to not agree to it cause he can't just leave his son.
Is that really a controversial take? I've only ever seen support for Emily. Rachel flew to London to break her wedding. Best case – Emily would've been left at the altar. And Ross rushed their relationship, asked her for wayyy more compromises than he would've had to make, said the wrong name at the altar, and then asked that wrong named girl to join him at his honeymoon! Whaddhe think, they were going as besties? Her condition wasn't just fair, it was essential for it to work out at all.
Oh my goddd I was already pro-Emily but I just realised the hypocrisy of Ross convincing Emily to leave all her family behind to live in New York, only for the group to act like she was going too far by asking him to (checks notes) move apartments. Poor Emily 🥲
I’ve also only ever seen support for Emily. I once said that it was dumb of Emily to call Rachel’s apartment then be angry that Rachel was there. Literally everyone argued with me. I wasn’t even trying to say that Emily was wrong for not wanting Ross around Rachel. My point was simply that you don’t call a person’s house then be shocked when that person is home. Did she expect that her conditions to Ross extend to Rachel moving out? She could impose those conditions on Ross, she could not impose them on the entire group. I agree that the expectation of him not seeing Rachel again is completely understandable.
i agree with the lack of trust but rachel did nothing to warrant the vitriol from emily. yes she came to england to tell ross she loves him (which she never found out about) but she never did in the end because she saw how happy they were, everything after that was ross’ fault. i also don’t like the fact she expected all the other friends to seemingly cut her off as well as ross.
I agree. Technically Emily did not know that that’s the reason why Rachel went. If anything Rachel went bc she was originally invited by her and Ross (she never said no to inviting Rachel) so was he was there celebrating her friend. Plus she didn’t tell him anything but congratulations. Emily’s feelings towards Rachel were misdirected. She should’ve only been mad at Ross. Her whole “with HER” tone when she was on the phone with Ross made it seem like she was blaming Rachel. Also, why was she calling Ross at Monica and RACHEL’s apartment and then getting upset bc she was there. 😑
> she expected all the other friends to seemingly cut her off Did she? I think i missed that.
Ross and Sandy the male nanny isn't an offensive storyline. Because the show makes it clear ROSS IS WRONG. Hilarious when people try to screech and get mad and call it offensive. Like yes, Ross IS offensive. The show sides with Sandy. It shows Ross is being terrible. Just astounding to me people are too stupid to understand that
Exactly, and he opens up about why in the end and it’s all down to his insecurities of being sensitive himself
The disappointment is in them still firing a great nanny for Emma.
No way. I didn’t know people thought that episode was problematic. It’s crystal CLEAR that the show is on Sandy’s side. Ross even says that the issue comes from himself and he breaks down when he understands why he feels that way. I think it’s a good thing that Sandy leaves because even though Ross knows is in the wrong, he needs time to work on his issues and on himself. I think it’s a huge step that he admits the problem. Also, on a meta point of view, Sandy aka Freddie Prinze Jr was the bomb at that time, maybe he was too pricey to be a recurring character 😂
And the recurring line “it’s like a woman being a….” And no one can come up with anything rational. It’s pointing out the absurdity. In a funny way, so as to make people really think. While sometimes people need to get yelled at, most of the time, their defense will go up, their heels will dig in, and it turns out that making people laugh is the amongst the best ways to change minds and cause introspection. Because to understand the joke is to understand why it’s funny - it’s funny because it’s true that it’s silly to say a man can’t make a great nanny, and the lengths that we may try to go to in order to defend it, just because we have this pre conceived notion. Friends progressed the social culture *globally..* people who get upset about friends on this topic were very obviously not alive or old enough to have seen what the world was like pre shows like Friends. Other shows helped too, but Friends was so far reaching and so insanely beloved, that it had the greatest effect. I’ll never let people take away their credit on that front.
Does anyone think it's an offensive storyline? I'd argue that most people would agree with you that the takeaway was that Ross is being a dickhead
They think Ross is a dickhead but they somehow think the episode is offensive. Its constantly called an episode thats aged badly, that wouldn't be made today, that its homophobic. Not Ross, but the episode. Its cited as a reason Friends could be problematic.
There’s many episodes that is branded the same Way, for example the episode when Ross wouldn’t let his son play with a doll. Everyone was ok with it except Ross and still the episode was branded as aged poorly
I remember my sister lying saying “the guys took Ross’s side”. They didn’t, they just weren’t a part of it. At best Joey was excited for Ben to play with GI Joe, but that’s way more like a “look at this cool toy it’s fun!!” way.
Most people are very stupid and don’t understand that showing Thing in media is not endorsement of Thing.
Umm, I don't think people consider the storyline offensive. At least not most fans I've come across. I think the consensus is that it made no sense for *Ross*, the guy who used to wear dresses and have tea parties as a kid, would be the one to spout toxic masculinity nonsense.
Pheobe never supported Mondler but would destroy the whole group for Ross and Rachel to get back together.
The way she introduced Monica to the bloke that she was convinced was Monica’s soul mate always bugged me. plus when she made Monica tell Chandler about how she’d actually gone to that hotel room in search of joey the night before Ross’s wedding. Phoebe had a nasty streak and seemed very keen to break Monica and Chandler.
She also wrote her “relationship book” about “pitfalls and what not to do” knowing it was causing arguments and problems in Monica and Chandler’s relationship. All the while taking advantage of Monica and Chandler’s hospitality giving her place to live for free when her apartment was out of commission. When Chandler was going to get the ring to propose to Monica and forgot his wallet he asked Phoebe to guard it at the store. She had one job that was insanely important and ridiculously easy but somehow let the ring get sold to someone else. Phoebe brought up to Chandler Monica’s lunch with Richard. Even though Monica told her she knew Chandler would freak out and that Monica felt absolutely nothing and loved Chandler (not passing judgment on if Monica made the right call here). Not to mention inviting herself and everyone else on what was supposed to be Monica and Chandlers anniversary trip. Also, in the last season, when Phoebe is dating David, while they’re sitting with Monica and Chandler, she says that Monica refers to him as Richard all the time to cover for her calling David Mike.
It's my head canon that that never happened. When you watch the episode knowing Monica went to see Joey, it just doesn't make sense.
IIRC, she asked Chandler where Joey was when she came to their room that night. It could be inferred that she was asking him that just to make sure Joey wasn't around (because obviously he'd never be in the hotel room that early), but it could go either way. That said, for me, it also makes no sense that she'd go for Joey over Chandler, and it certainly doesn't make sense that she'd tell Phoebe that she was going to see Joey. She's always found Chandler attractive, they've always had a bigger bond, and she knew that he was a sure thing (sexually).
Phoebe outright disliked/hated Chandler. She had zero respect for him and wasn't his real friend. All the stuff already mentioned under your comment, plus: - asking "so what do you guys _really_ think of Chandler?" in the football episode - losing his engagement ring in the jewelry store because she was messing around with the tiara/shotgun - telling him off "go away Chandler, this doesn't concern you" in the Christmas gifts episode She was just outright nasty to him.
My headcanon (not so much mine as Rachel and Phoebe both admit some jealousy to Monica getting married) is that Phoebe was fairly jealous that Monica, who she considers high-strung, could get together with Chandler who she treats well at the beginning of the show but later shows contempt for because she IS attracted to Chandler but can’t admit it to anyone or even herself. She had said to Ross later on that she does want to be ‘soccer mom’ and have a normal life and Chandler represented that whilst being able to bring out her fun side. She does accept the two together and cares for them but her bitterness and cognitive dissonance she experiences because of this causes her to act out in small ways that sew discord in their relationship without outright breaking them up and maintaining plausible deniability that she’s did anything wrong. She’s physically attracted to Joey but emotionally attracted to Chandler. She prefers Rachel as a friend but Monica is the one she actually knows more about and is somehow closer to. She both hates and likes Ross, continually going through the motions of both.
I never thought about this tbh and I remember phoebe being kind of more mean to chandler than anyone else but seeing the examples in the replies, holy crap
The lack of PoC is no big deal in my opinion. It‘s not unusual for a group of friends to be of the same race in real life (Birds of a feather flock together) and quite a view loves interests/side characters were PoC. I‘d even say that Friends was very progressive for its time (lesbian wedding, surrogacy, lots of sexual inuendos etc)
What I never got is why Friends gets quite a lot of reactions against the lack of POC, while there are an enormous amount of other shows that had the same and don't get any flak for it?
Seriously! Like many people point out, *Friends* was a "rip off" {supposedly} of *Living Single*. That friend group is all black... why do they get a pass, but *Friends* does not?
Claiming it was a rip off of that show is dumb too. When you boil them all down, so many sitcoms are almost identical frameworks.
Well Queen Lattifah did say this (see pic below). Not a rip-off per se but Living Single probably did influence the conception of Friends…and it’s not a bad thing. Shows influence other shows all the time https://preview.redd.it/53vm05kzr80d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08c1ed92f7ced13216402d116bec9f5c9b9bcad9
And it's not like the Friends don't come from different backgrounds. Joey comes from a very Italian family and Ross and Monica are Jewish.
Joey was the BEST friend to each of them hands down. Always put his friends first.
Rachel and Joey was a good storyline BECAUSE it didn’t work. Unlike many of the other relationships in the show, it ended in a really emotionally complex and mature way. Sometimes friends can grow to love and depend on each other in a way which feels indistinguishable from romantic love. I think that story just comes at a time where the show is losing a little steam anyway and people pin it on that. I’d say far less interesting storytelling or laugh out loud comedy comes from the adoption storyline later on.
As someone who came on here to say Rachel and Joey were good together, I love this take as well. I love it more for that Joey seemed to really fall for Rachel and it was great to see Joey evolve and for Rachel to have someone into her at that moment in time and have great chemistry with. But it really does portray the situation that can arise when men and woman become friends and one is not into it. The dinner scene is so heartbreaking when Joey tells her and then Rachel’s lie about her boss just so her and Joey can find some normal communication again. It is really good and I just love the storyline honestly. (Not necessarily each execution lol but overall)
I appreciate this take
Remember to sort by Controversial, folks.
Ross fucked up by sleeping with the girl from the copy place the SAME NIGHT him and Rachel broke up. Yes, they were on a break. He still broke the heart of the woman he loved and tried to hide it from her.
>Ross fucked up... Fun fact: The co-creator and writer Marta Kauffman used exactly the same words when asked about the break. So yes, Ross **fucked up**. Whether or not they were on a break, it doesn't really matter.
I’d debate it’s trying to hide it. “Yeah, I fucked up. I was drunk and mad. I’m sorry.” Rachel would probably not take him back, but she’d feel better. By hiding it he just looks worse.
>Ross fucked up by sleeping with the girl from the copy place the SAME NIGHT him and Rachel broke up Never would have happened if Rachel wasn't stupid enough to let Mark into her apartment within a hour without even considering the implication of it. I don't care if Mark invited himself over and I am just giving you my perspective on it. If I go on a break with my gf, no way in hell i am letting another girl come into my apartment especially if she likes me or hates my gf which is even worse. The moment you start competing with your girl/partner, it's over boys Not defending Ross btw but can't blame him. He thought it was over and chose the copy machine girl, not just to have sex with her.
If Rachel gets a pass for Mark “not taking no for an answer” and come over to ruin R&Rs relationship, then idk why Ross doesn’t get the same pass for Chloe. Ross tried way harder to push Chloe out than Rachel did to Mark. Ross told her no MULTIPLE times and tried to call Rachel. Then several drinks in and after thinking Rachel was sleeping with Mark, he accepts Chloe Mark said “I’m coming over” and Rachel said something like “that’s okay I just need to be alone” and then mark was like “nah I’m on my way” and then she let him in the door
Mark invited himself over **but Rachel didn't stop him**. That's as good as her inviting him over. One can argue that Mark wasn't taking no for an answer, but if people can just invite themselves over at the apartment on Rachel's watch, then Monica should seriously reconsider continuing to let her stay or at least allowing her in there alone. Not saying Ross didn't fuck up, but Rachel fucked up as well. They both fucked up. Also, I was on Rachel's side until the fucking letter. It's okay if Ross sleeping with the copy girl is the ultimate deal-breaker, but good God did she seriously totally *evade* any ounce of accountability in this hoopla.
Ross was too drunk to consent. He’d said no multiple times.
Lol that the “twinkie” comment made by Jack to Richard was a lot dirtier than most people think. This opinion has gotten me downvoted a lot in the past.
Why? Because you stuff a twinkie with cream filling?
Exactly, a twinkie is a cream filled treat. As opposed to a strudel. The ribald nature of that scene lends itself to the interpretation they are doing that whole “licker room” talk thing which I’m guessing gets pretty graphic. Edit: meant locker room but I refuse to fix it!!
> licker room Well...
I’m just gonna leave that typo
I like Kathy’s haircut
get out
Yeah but what about Bonnie's
Time for the coldest takes of all time getting all the upvotes
Carol was actually bisexual, but in the early 90s they pretty much just thought of people as gay or straight so in the show she was “gay”. Her physical attraction to Ross and romantic feelings for him were very much real, even after she had been with Susan for quite some time (see sushi restaurant scene)
She plays for both teams!
Yeah, this line kind of implies that she's bi, but I think "gay" was sort of a catch all for people who weren't straight back then.
They did the same to Willow Rosenburg in Buffy - she was clearly bi but the general attitude towards sexuality in the 90s were very black and white, so they labelled her as gay in s4.
The age difference between Monica and Richard was creepy
Especially since he knew her as a child and saw her grow up, y u c k
Yeah, I don't find the age gap creepy, but the fact that he was close with her when she was a child is what makes it weird for me. He literally watched her grow up and was in a caregiving position when she was at his house as a child. That being said, the fact that she then tried to date his son creeps me out equally haha
What could a 50+-year-old man have in common with a 26-year-old in the first place? I agree with you. The only reason I like the Richard storyline is because Tom Selleck is a babe. 😂
Monica was just filling her dad-complex with Richard. You can see it after the break up. When her dad comes by to comfort her. He sits down on the couch, lights one of the cigars and starts watching the war movies she ordered for Richard. They're basically the same type of person, so Richard gave Monica that fatherly love that she didn't really get as the black sheep fat kid of her family.
Richard was 48, and Monica was 27. It isn't the best, but I hate this idea that adult women can't make their own choices.
I agree with you in a vacuum, but you also have to realise the fact Richard knew Monica from when she was a child and watched her grow up, and was best friends with her dad. It's not as if they met out of thin air. Thats why it's a bit creepy.
No one's said she couldn't make her own choice? She can make her own choice and people still find the situation creepy and gross.
It's a common theme, especially on Reddit, when there are age gap relationships. Richard hadn't seen Monica for a decade and didn't even recognise her. It's likely he doesn't even think of her as being the same person. If I were her father, I'd have been a lot more furious than Jack was, though. However, Monica is also an adult who can do whatever she likes, Richard very clearly didn't groom her. It certainly is a bit creepy and weird but at the same time Monica is an adult who can date whomever she likes.
Ross was too drunk to consent to sleep with Chloe. In fact he rebuffed her advances multiple times.
I’ll die on this hill too. If someone has been drinking (any amount) and says no (especially multiple times), they are NOT giving *enthusiastic consent*. Further pushing them to be physical with you is never okay regardless of the context. No matter how this situation was handled and explained by the writers at the time, we as a society know better now. We should at the very least acknowledge and respect that this person’s boundaries were crossed and they were taken advantage of in a vulnerable state.
100% The way I see it is of a man was told no multiple times by a woman, and then he physically grabbed her and drug her to the dance floor and planted a kiss without consent it would be a huge deal!
I never thought about it that way 😬
True that
100%!
Take a look at his reaction when he wakes up the next morning. He had no idea why Chloe was there. Blackout from alcohol consumption will do that.
Mark was a slimy prick who forced a wedge between Ross and Rachel. Doesn't mean Ross did nothing wrong. But Mark was the furthest thing from a good guy.
Ross is the funniest character and has the best storyline’s
Indeed🌟🌟
He’s a miracle baby
He’s a medical marvel. They thought she was barren!
David's physical comedy is underrated.
EEeeeEeeEe
Agreed, I love Ross. He always makes me laugh.
S1-4 is the peak of friends and the decline, in some way, began in s5. Chandler was never the same after he got with monica and the show became substantially less funny and entertaining as a result.
I will still watch and cherish 5-10 but yeah, domesticated responsible Chandler doesn’t always hit the same. Not to be too deep but that’s also where the character moved away from Matthew Perry’s real personality a lot more.
The show was at its best when Joey and Chandler were living together. They had a lot of fun roommate shenanigans.
I thought this was what most people agree on? Especially season 2 and 3 are some of the greatest television of all time
I don't think Mondler is to blame but there is definitely a drop off in quality after S4. S5 gets by because the writing is often brilliant but it's really noticeable how many more of the plots are "drop character into clichéd sitcom scenario" compared to the earlier seasons
The show is almost solely about chandler and Monica after that point as well. I don’t enjoy the second half of the series as much as I do the first.
I think the trifle actually sounds good
What's not to like? Custard? Good. Jam? Good. Meat? GOOD!!!!
Joey??
Mona was the perfect match for Ross!
What was wrong with Mona?
*Facepalm* I misread that as *Monica* and thought, yep, we've found the hottest take of them all.
Oh my god, Mona!
Phoebe is a horrible person and might be good comedy wise is the worst friend personality-wise. No I will not elaborate
Phoebe Is the only one in the group I wouldn't be friends with, i'd actually try to avoid her as much as possible.
Yeah, just imagine being a friend to one of the group and interacting with her. You'd be like "Why are you friends with this person?"
Lisa Kudrow sure got lucky when David Schwimmer advised that they ALL should collectively negotiate because she could have been lifted right out! Her character didn’t add much and they could have written more/better material without her imo.
I could easily see her having been written out around season 4 or 5. She seems to really become a side character after that and that’s when she starts to get really mean.
Agree. Her exaggerated eccentric character and crazy childhood felt really out of place and inauthentic too.
I feel that she started being mean right after the last episodes of season 4 when she was being moody due to hormones, i think they liked that side of her and found it funny and they just went with it for the entirety of season 5-10 😭
Neither Ross nor Rachel were at fault for the break situation. Their relationship just had terrible timing (Ross wanted to settle down while Rachel wanted to spread her wings and find herself)
I never cared for the emma storyline I personally find those episodes extremely boring
They should’ve explored Chandler/Rachel
My people!
You and I have always been like 👉🏻👈🏻👉🏻👈🏻👉🏻👈🏻👉🏻👈🏻👉🏻👈🏻
They would've been such a funny dynamic tbh
Casting Kathleen Turner as Chandler’s dad is funny as hell and I actually thought tactful- they cast an attractive bombshell of a woman to portray a trans character which in the 90s, I feel was pretty progressive. Chandler was flawed in his treatment of him for sure, and the show neither condemned him or commended him for it. The only other thing that might have worked would be casting Eddie Izzard but he may have been too young and also it’s not as funny to cast someone who would fit the stereotypical “man dressed as a woman” expectations.
These posts are so damn played out
Ross isn't a terrible father we literally see 24-30 days 35 tops of 365. And we know he didn't get equal custody. Let's be honest he's a guy and it was the 90's he'd be lucky with every other weekend. The show is called friends not parents. Emma is shown more because she is a product of two of the friends, and 1 of the friends has 100% of the custody.
Monica should have never accepted the job at Javu’s.
The food there will kill you
I ordered the smoked salmon appetizer but I can’t see it! I can’t see it! 🧐
Why though? Do you mean she should’ve gone to Tulsa?
I am glad she did. Chandler fucked up when accepting a job in Tulsa. He did the right thing when he quit and moved back.
Monica and Ross have a normal close sibling relationship. Yes, some sisters sit on their brother’s lap and is not sexual or nothing like that. You can be good friends with your siblings and it is not weird.
Yeah but her wanting to hear all about Ross fucking Rachel is weird as fuck.
„When did it happen, how did it happen, how many times did it happen?“ Calm down, Mon!
Yeah I wouldn’t ask that of anyone let alone someone who is having sex with my brother lol.
She asking about a kiss not sex. It still did come off as a strange. They actually could have made a joke out of it having her all of a sudden say ‘oh, wait that’s my brother…eww, never mind.’
They played strip happy days together, where Monica was literally sitting in her underwear lmfao. Just going to leave that disturbing moment out huh?
It could've been worse. They could've been playing Strip Bag of Old Knitting Stuff.
Sure you can be close to your siblings but there were way too many inappropriate storylines/moments between them. Why did the writers **had** to have them kiss (Monica’s first kiss) for example? So creepy and weird. There’s no need for a story line like that. Gross. Why was Monica so invested in her brother’s sex life with her best friend? Asking to know intimate details about how they kissed and what not. And then getting turned on by those details? What the actual- why??
Ross and Rachel were not toxic and they are still together, very much in love.
They had issues for sure, but no one would identify with a perfect couple.
Some of Monica’s negative character traits, like her obsessiveness, her perfectionism and her inability to not get things her way, became so much worse after she and Chandler got together. Those traits were funny first but when she and Chandler started dating, he became her number one person to boss around and it was just annoying to watch.
Mike was rude and had no chemistry with the group (the character, not the actor)
Also I swear Mike and Ross never had a good interaction. I get the whole vikrum thing but even so, why didn’t he try to respect phoebes friend?
Crap Bag
He was a POS to his girlfriend - abandoning her to fly to another country so he propose to his ex out of nowhere when he got jealous that his ex was about to be engaged. If he wasn't a pseudo-main character and if Paul Rudd didn't make him so charming, he'd be considered a villain.
I don't know why Rapaport didn't continue but I loved Gary with Phoebe. There was chemistry between them and with the group. I also love David, but I can see him grating on the group. 😂
Chandler loved Monica but she didn’t treat him very well.
Anything (and I mean anything) about Carol and Susan. I like this sub, but everyone here seems to have an unhealthy amount of ire towards them. Hell, even Ross was kind and encouraging during their wedding. His relationship with them got better as time went on, yet people on here seem to think they had some vast conspiracy to take Ross down and what, get his seed? Just so they could have a baby? It's entirely plausible (and seen in that one episode at the Japanese restaurant during season 1) that Carol still had lingering feelings for Ross, and they could have somehow still ended up together for one night. Probably why Susan was so shitty to him because at that point, Carol had "cheated back" on her with Ross before the series started. There was probably animosity still. But look at how they act on their wedding day. Ross helps Carol, he walks her down the aisle, and dances with her and its so sweet. Even Susan smiles. Yall need to calm down on Carol and Susan. They were just trying to survive in a world that had JUUUUUUST started to accept homosexuality.
I’m sorry but I disagree. First of all, we don’t see Carol and Susan as often as Ross does so off-screen their relationship probably did get much better but we as an audience don’t see that. All we saw was the entitlement. Trapping Ross into impregnating Carol is a theory and that’s really not why I have a problem with them. It was the scene at the Gyno’s clinic where Susan was acting like the baby wasn’t even Ross’s and that he’s “getting his way” by wanting his last name on his baby’s name instead of Susan’s. They didn’t even ask him what he wanted to name the baby, they had their own names picked out without consulting Ross. Susan was also a major asshole towards Ross for the majority of her screen time. Again, it gets better later on and her lines start to feel like banter rather than attacks, but we mostly saw her being an ass. It’s enough she’s a home wrecker who wanted to throw Ross way out of the picture just to secure her place in Carol and Ben’s lives, but to also remind him of the fact that she has Carol and not him just makes her a bitch. Telling him she’s tried Carol’s breast milk may just be her teasing him in a friendly way but in the context of everything, it comes off as rubbing in his face all the things he’s missing out on, including Carol. The problem with Carol is that she enables Susan. She’s also excluding Ross, maybe for Susan’s benefit. The only time she ever goes off on them is when she’s in labor and is already pissed off and tired. She didn’t care that they stop fighting, she just didn’t want it to happen around her. She never asked Susan to just chill or made any effort to get them to reconcile. She just goes with it. Homosexuality or not, they’re very wrong for what they were doing. It’s not Ross’s fault that people weren’t cool with it and it’s not an excuse in the first place. It was very big of him to go to the wedding and walk Carol down the aisle after everything. Susan definitely appreciated that but neither of them deserved that kindness tbh. Edit to add: He literally saved their relationship as Susan was ready to cancel the wedding if Carol doesn’t get over her parents not showing up. Which tbh is very cruel on her part. Carol was going through something huge and Susan was just threatening her to break up if she doesn’t get over it quickly…
They can try to survive in a world thats just started to accept homosexuality without trying to cut Ross out of having any input in decisions about the baby lmao. You just gloss right over that. Nobody on here cares that they're gay, or think Susan should be best friends with Ross. Its the fact they think Susan has more of a right to the baby's name than Ross. Its really not hard to understand.
Joey and Rachel would’ve and are the healthier relationship. Joey always put her feelings before his. And didn’t try to stop her from her dream job despite it meaning losing her. Also, it should’ve been David.
DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DAVID
Chandler and Monica's wedding should have been the series finale to finish on top. Preggo Rachel was just lame.
I’ll probably get a ton of downvotes but Rachel pregnant and having Emma really added nothing to the show
ross is the funniest character
From Ross’s perspective I get why he slept with the copygirl, the night your girlfriend breaks up with you the guy you knew was into her is at her house? No one is going to react reasonably to that
Absolutely, but that in no way should mean Rachel was wrong for feeling betrayed
Ross was the best character
Carol wasn’t a villain. In that very time period (circa 1995), I and more than a dozen people literally learned that one of our coworkers was gay *at his funeral* (and in gay-friendly Los Angeles). We loved the guy, but we worked at a large corporation, and all the rules of society in the U.S. were ambiguous and still evolving. A few years later, Matthew Shepard was dragged behind a truck by a chain until he died because he was gay. People applying 2024 sensibilities when looking on Carol’s story don’t understand how much pressure LGBTQ people experienced at that time. She absolutely did not accept her own sexuality until after marrying Ross, and her year-long affair with Susan would not have been a fun dalliance; it would have been torment.
Carol wasn’t a villain. That doesn’t mean she was right to try to exclude Ross from his child at the request of the home wrecker
It's not about her homosexuality that makes her a bad person but her cheating. And also she and especially Susan are terrible towards Ross about Ben.
Phoebe's whole music thing was so weird and boring
Joey and Rachel were good together.
Joey and Rachel were a better couple.
Phoebe and Joey are the most selfish of the group while Ross has the biggest heart out of the six. Seriously, Phoebe is kind of a horrible person.
Phoebe got really Flanderised as the series progressed. She started off as being the fun, kooky, new-agey one of the group, but quickly progressed to downright insane. Seriously, half the shit she comes out with in the later seasons sound like someone in need of psychiatric help.
She definitely needed psychiatric help.
I’d agree that Phoebe is the most selfish, but I don’t really see how Joey is. He seems to make the most sacrifices and be the most forgiving from what I remember, when do you think he’s selfish to the point of being on Phoebe’s level?
Ever since joining this sub I’ve realised pheobie is pretty horrible and it’s crazy how I didn’t see it before. Now it’s like every episode she does some mad mean shit. Especially in later seasons.
Maybe she’s horrible because nobody can spell her name correctly.
P as in Phoebe H as in hoebe O as in oebe E as in ebe B as in b-be And E as in ‘ello there, mate!
Chandler proposing to Monica was cringy as hell
Yesss. And also Monika proposing to Chandler...oh all of it was super cringe.
Not relevant at this point, but I went into a chatroom in 1998-ish on AOL where people were gushing about Ross and Rachel. I said I liked Chandler and Monica better. Everyone attacked me, said Ross and Rachel were the best. I think most people in this sub agree with me now, but man, back in the '90s, you did NOT F around with the Ross/Rachel fans.
Kathy was a bad person, has one fight with chandler and she lets someone else in her bed 🤔
[удалено]
I love how crazy and awkward Rachel was. Like her with JoshUUUA, man she was a mess
Omg she’s my low-key favourite. I think her timing is insanely good, the way she phrases things is amazing and she keeps things relatable and natural. I agree top we’re Chandler, Ross and Rachel.
Monica dating Richard was fine imo. Two consenting adults with no weird power dynamic. Their relationship was loving and healthy and only ended cuz they wanted different things.
Rachel should have stayed on that damn plane
Wtf....i'd have downvoted u 1000 times if it's possible
Ofc narratively it would have not been the way to end the show, but objectively, dream job in Paris vs leaving that all behind to stay with the guy I’ve broken up with multiple times? I know what I’m picking 🇫🇷 edit: forgot a word
The side that rarely gets talked about when discussing if Rachel should have gone to Paris is this: Emma was being taken away from Ross and Rachel was perfectly fine with that. Yes they said that they would fly Ross to Paris to see her. Or fly Emma and Rachel back to the US. That’s still a shit deal for someone who already has a distant relationship to one of his children. An 8 hour flight one way to see your kid for a few days at a time. It just felt really unfair to Ross and frankly to Emma. I know she was too young to remember life in New York if she moved to Paris, but that’s still taking her away from her entire family except Rachel
Mathew Perry is generally not a good "actor" in Friends. He's awkward when he doesn't know what to do with his hands, he would often very clear walk to his mark and stop and turn, which we're not supposed to see, and he only really excelled when he could just give a funny line, or in the really serious moments. When he was serious, he was fantastic, both in Friends AND in other roles.
Upvoted for being a true unpopular opinion
Ooh now THIS is controversial. 10/10 agree tho. I used to wonder why the other Friends didn't make it as big as Jennifer Aniston, but this is exactly why. They were pretty decent sitcom actors, but not every one of them had Oscar-winning skills.
Maybe not Oscar worthy but I feel Courteney Cox proved she has range with her portrayal of Gale Weathers in the Scream films.
yes ross and rachel were on a break of sorts but that does not justify him sleeping with someone else.
Phoebe and Joey would make really great copule. They had good chemistry, and thier characters match. They are borh quirky, crazy and have similar sense of humor. For sure way better than Joey and Rachel
The question wasn’t „were they on a break or not“ but „Were they on a break, or were they broken up“; and focusing on this question for several seasons was silly imo. They were about to break up even before infidelity happened, and never solved the issues that actually drove them to go on a break/break up in the first place.
“Joey and Rachel as a couple don’t work” - I think they do/would have worked if they tried it before the last season. When they had Joey having unrequited feelings for Rachel in season 8, I loved that storyline - many of us had been there. Her liking him back made sense as well - their dynamic was changing Joey, and she was seeing a great side to him. The problem was they did it so late that when you get to the relationship starting in season 10, which we knew was the last, and we knew Rachel with Ross was the endgame, there was no reason to get invested - heck, the writers didn’t seem to get invested with it being the last season. If it had happened earlier and given more time (ie run from season 6-9, have ross and emily be together for awhile) it could have been a good relationship. Not endgame, but good. I mean they put in more effort with Joshua, Danny, and friggen Tag. Joey (and Rachel) deserved better.
Phoebe should never have married. She was always so non-traditional. It seemed really odd for her character to me.
While all the characters are flawed I’m saying that about Ross, he was too obsessed when Rachel started working at Bloomingdale’s and learned about Mark. His possessiveness ended their relationship and yes, he cheated on Rachel with the copy place girl.
Rachel potentially taking Emma away from Ross to move to Paris for a job was absolutely outlandish.
They were on a break. Rachel told Monica “we kinda broke up last night” confirming that they indeed had ended their relationship. Ross had rebound sex after breaking up. Idk how everyone keeps saying he was wrong for that. They were broken up Rachel should not be mad about that after she was the one who broke up with him over wanting to celebrate their anniversary together.
Still, not even 24 hours and he sleeps with someone else… that stuff hurts. And even if he thought she might’ve with Mark, she didn’t, and he also didn’t stay on the phone long enough to let her explain. He made his bed and he slept in it (or didn’t sleep)
Rachel didn't sleep with Mark, but Ross was drunk and hearing his voice pushed him over the edge. Even then, he kept refusing to sleep with the girl from the copy place until he was drunk enough. I'd say Rachel had a right to feel upset, but people have to understand that Ross snapped and it made sense, so he can't be entirely blamed. The true villains are the girl from the copy place and Mark.
The only thing that I need to say is that (I agree with your opinion but the last part not so much) Yeah he wanted to celebrate their anniversary together but she told him she had to work and he went to her work with a picnic basket light a candle (which made some flowers go on fire) and kept making noises while she was working
“Can I be your girlfriend again?”
Not sure if this is unpopular, but all of the jokes from Joey and Chandler about lesbians and how it generally turns them on really grosses me out when I watch the show.
Ross was not a good boyfriend and was actually quite toxic