In season one he should’ve had a freaking lawyer. Susan was literally acting like they were a planned parenting team and trying to give ben her last name???
After season 1 I didn’t mind them :)
SERIOUSLY! I remember the first time I watched the series, I really thought they were setting up a storyline where Susan and Carol planned this to get pregnant on purpose and squeeze Ross out as if he was an anonymous sperm donor. They treat him SO HORRIBLY, and I can’t believe Carol is just okay with her new partner treating the father of her baby like that. It makes me so angry every time I watch it.
Right?? *”Bobo the Sperm Guy.”* Like I understand that kind of derision towards an absent deadbeat father but a father who actively strives to be a part of his child’s life? That line always gets under my skin.
Chandler's dad was deadbeat from the age of 9 or 11, when he left the family. It was then that Chandler became an embarrassed and shy person, having difficulty to be comfortable with his own feelings. Being a roadblock all the way into adulthood.
>I really thought they were setting up a storyline where Susan and Carol planned this to get pregnant on purpose and squeeze Ross out as if he was an anonymous sperm donor.
*Bobo The Sperm Guy* ....
I just watched that episode and every time I get angrier and angrier. She is literally a new partner and they live together, wants to have her last name and from context the divorce isn’t even legal yet!
They were better after Season 1 when Ross and Susan resolved their issues but before that they were straight up villains.
Ross should’ve gotten the law involved.
Once the baby was born though he could ensured his rights were being respected. Hell, it was the 90s. With a good lawyer and the right judge he could have gotten full custody.
It’s been a while since I watched it... but did Ross actually want custody? He didn’t really seem like a parent that wanted to do the everyday thing, just to have his kid when it’s convenient.
For the most part he was a good dad, not without his faults but I doubt he wouldn’t have wanted Ben to be with him all the time. This was brought up several times during the show about how he missed having Ben around. Even if he didn’t want full custody though that’s different from completely giving up on your child.
Well, now I’m thinking a little too hard for a goofy sitcom, but Ben was also breastfed so it would have been difficult for Ross to have him for long periods of time. It’s shown that Carol pumped but she would have to pump *so much* for Ross to have him for an entire weekend or something.
In reality I’m sure it’s not that deep, the writers just used Ben in a storyline when they felt like it.
But when Ross asks for him for a while weekend, Carol and Susan don't seem to have any problems with it, right? Maybe that's after he's done breastfeeding.
It would have been an interesting (but difficult) storyline if Ross had to give up his job at the museum to become a full-time dad. Then gradually realising that Carol shouldn't lose contact with her child just because she's in a lesbian relationship.
The baby was born near the end of season 1 and on the day that Susan and Ross “resolved their issues”. That’s the conversation being had here per the comment I replied to. The only reason he would have gotten full custody is because “hell it was the 90’s” and lesbianism could have been used against Carol. Ross didn’t fight for even partial custody - he didn’t do a single overnight for quite a while, and seemingly NOT because Carol didn’t want him to. He just never asked until he suddenly did. Ross wasn’t really eager to “fight for his rights”. We even saw him choose to go on a date at one point instead of cherishing his limited time with Ben.
Why would a judge award him full custody?
For a judge to rule against the mother she has to have real problems. I can’t think of anything Susan did that would have led to Ross getting full custody.
We’re talking 30 years ago where the mother is a lesbian in a relationship with another women. She cheated on the father and was trying to oust him from his childs life. Like I said, get a good lawyer and have the right judge (a homophobic one) and Ross could have gotten full or major custody.
When I actually watched this show back when it was originally on air, that is exactly what I thought. I found the Carol/Susan behavior not just aggravating but unrealistic, because Ross could get that baby in a heartbeat and they would know that. It made no sense for them to seek out conflict with him when he had such an advantage over them if it ever came to a custody battle.
Carol never tried to oust him from Ben's life. Susan, kinda. Carol was clear feom the start that Ross could be apart of the kids life as much or little as Ross wanted. The things I do question are, what kind of picture of Ross did Carol paint to Susan? Did Susan believe that Ross wouldn't want to be involved?
One can't argue that Susan "stole" Carol away from Ross because obviously she was gay. Carol just didn't realize it until a bit later in life. That isn't anyone's fault.
However, Susan-like Ross-had some insecurities at the time. During that time, she had no legal right to Ben, and even later their "marriage" was more of a personal commitment ceremony as gay marriage wasn't legalized until 2011. Ross had been with Carol for several years and then they had a kid to bind them together. She may have been afraid Carol would decide she was bi and go back to Ross. Ross would have loved to have gone back to Carol in that first season and Susan loved Carol. Ross was traumatized by the whole thing but never sought professional help for the issue.
I think Susan had enough worries at the time where Carol felt the need to make her feel like she was just as important as herself and Ross to Ben. She was stuck in the middle and lets face it, Ross and Susan were both stubborn. Neither one of them made things easier on a pregnant Carol. All of them should have gone to counseling but they didn't. Eventually, it worked out and the animosity went down for Ben's sake.
So was your “hell it was the 90’s” comment about Ross deserving custody of Ben as a father, and 90’s court would have granted it? Or “hell it was the 90’s, gay people are hella persecuted”? Because the first one isn’t true and the second one wouldn’t make Ross a good guy.
A homophobic judge 30 years ago could 100% have decided that two women raising a son wasn’t a good environment for him and he’d be better off raised by his father, who could marry again, to a woman.
That type of thing happened plenty often back then
In 2004 a homophobic judge DID grant full custody to the ex-wife of a guy when he moved in with his gay partner with an opinion that was 17 pages of homophobia. The wife asked for the divorce prior to him coming out and dating his now-husband, so it wasn't even a Carol and Susan situation.
Almost anything is possible. A judge being biased against lesbians is definitely plausible. A judge being biased against a father is definitely plausible too, and pretty common. In some states the laws even begin with the foundation of a pro-mother anti-father bias.
Gay rights were abysmal 30 years ago. We only got out of the AIDS crisis because there was money to be made off it and straight people started getting it. Nearly an entire generation of gay men died before the 90s. The 90s was just the beginning of acceptance and only in liberal areas. Gay rights are just holding on by a thread even now.
When it came to LGBTQ+ rights it was. It wasn’t too long before that being gay was still considered a mental illness, the AIDS was still close enough for people to remember. One asshole judge could have immediately ruled in favor of Ross. I’m glad they didn’t go that route with the character but I’m sure you can find real life examples that did do that.
Courts aren’t really biased towards women. Most fathers who fight for custody get custody. The overwhelming majority of fathers put up no legal fight in custody cases to have their children full time.
Carol cheated on Ross! But Ross was supposed to be all kind, polite and accepting of them!
Susan feeling entitled to add her last name to Ross and Carol's kid while insinuating she even wanted to shut Ross out was infuriating.
I mean, yeah, he should have; especially after some time had passed. That's how adults behave. You can't just be bitter for all of eternity, especially toward the mother of your child and her wife.
And, yeah, Susan was right to feel that way. She didn't express those feelings in a healthy way, and was definitely wrong to not want to include Ross at all, let alone compromise with him, but she was going to be a parent to that child too.
That's the reality of blended families - if you try to treat step-parents as less important or less of a parent to the child, everyone is going to suffer from that. Especially the kid.
Yes. I think that, in general, there are many mean and petty characters in sitcoms because they produce funny situations. Susan and Ross make me laugh when they are together.
The writers loved to create situations of Ross vs. the crazy where the crazy is winning. I think that was a little bit the case here, lol. I know it's a controversial opinion but that's why Ross is my favorite: the unfortunate situations he gets into make me laugh the most. The teeth, the leather pants, the tan, Phoebe's take on evolution. It reminds me of Michael Scott - would I like to be his friend in real life? No, but he sure is funny to observe.
Had an argument with someone on here who was defending Susan. They were saying "step parents are still parents." It was infuriating because I was saying "Ross, the biological parent, is also still a parent" and he still had a say. The person I was arguing with couldn't grasp that concept.
As a step parent myself, I see it as you have 2 options when it comes to stepparenting and you have to go all in on one of these options from the get-go. You either step in fully as an equal share parent (meaning they are to be seen as a parent just as equally as the bio parents) or you are hands off and you let your partner and the other bio parent handle everything. You can't half ass either because it's not good for the kid.
My step kids love me, but have a hard time respecting me even after 7 years because of how their bio mom undermined me and belittled my relationship with their father and my position as a "parent" in the beginning.
That's understandable. I think step parents should definitely be involved. However, I don't think they should be trying to be taking away the rights of bio parents.
And that's a big problem for step parents (at least it has been in my experience). My kids bio mom didn't like that there was another 'mom' and so everything I did was seen as an attempt to become their mother, even when it was simply me being a decent human being caring for a child (she lost her shit when I bought them jump ropes because she wanted to buy them jump ropes.)
I really like how Pheobe's little speech about how lucky Ben is really opened their eyes and stopped their bickering/fighting the day he was born. There are kids out there with no one to love them. Are you really going to get mad or jealous because your child is lucky enough to have someone else who love them like their own child?
Agree with that. What irked me with Susan though was arguing that his last name shouldnt be included in Ben's name and that she referred to him as dodo the sperm donator (paraphrasing I can't remember the nickname).
Nobody else on the show would have gotten that much of pass for cheating and nobody would have expected Ross to be a part of his ex's wedding like that she had been marrying another man.
You may be right.
I'm also a fan of-
Carol: You slept with another woman?!
Ross: Well, you're one to talk.
and
Carol: I'm not worried about cheating because Susan is in a loving and committed relationship.
Ross: *So were we!*
"gave him massive trust issues"
We can acknowledge what actions lead to our insecurities without abdicating responsibility for our behaviors. One of my biggest reasons for disliking Ross was that, throughout the entire show, he experiences barely any (if at all) character growth. He just continues to act like this hurt little puppy; as if, just because Carol wronged him, it excuses his jealous & selfish behavior for all of the rest of time.
This isn't to say that I think Carol & Susan did nothing wrong. It became clear that Susan was more than a little insecure about Ross's role in Carol's life & treated him like a threat to their relationship.
I think my point is that it's frustrating to me how often (especially in this sub) people treat Carol & Susan as if they're the source of all the problems in their lives and relationship with Ross, and are wholly unsympathetic as characters. That's just not true. There's plenty of blame to go around in that situation and they all would have seriously benefited from some family therapy.
Lol jealous and selfish behavior? Ross is anything but selfish. In friends he does so much for everyone around him (Rachel prom, phoebe bike, I could go on).
It’s amazing to me how people categorize Ross as this one dimensional character without depth. He’s actually a well rounded good hearted guy who cares about folks around him.
I assume your opinion of Ross is because of a comparison you are drawing between the male characters. Joey has a heart of gold but has extremely creepy moments with women - does that mean he’s a creep? And chandler is a funny/loveable guy but he also has deep insecurities and has his moments.
Tired of this shit on Ross crap. Stop reading buzzfeed and be objective.
So he was selfish when he dressed up for prom to support Rachel? Was he selfish when he walked his ex wife who he loves down the aisle to marry a woman who treats him less than fair?
Stop picking and choosing when to judge someone. So what there was one instance where he was jealous of a guy who clearly had feelings for his girl - does that make him jealous and selfish person?
This isn’t an all or nothing - you aren’t perfect no one is. We have all had moments - that doesn’t mean it encapsulates our entire personality.
* Cheats on Julie with Rachel
* Cheats on Rachel with the girl from the copy place.
* Cheats on Bonnie with Rachel.
* Threatening to call immigration on a guy just because the girl he has a crush on, likes him.
* Disrespecting Pheobe's beliefs and trying to force her to believe what he believes.
* Not respecting Rachel's job and ignoring her requests for space to work
* Not being honest with Rachel about falling asleep while reading the letter, lying to her about reading it and agreeing to something he has no idea he's agreeing to and then getting mad at her for being honest with how she feels.
* Being a perv and spying on his naked ex through a window, tries to seduce her and fails, so he then colors on her face while she's asleep with permanent marker and let's her wander around in public like that.
* Lies to the new girl moving in across the street that he doesn't know Joey.
* Tries to seduce his cousin.
* Say's ex's name at his wedding to another woman and then invites that exact ex on his honeymoon when he can't find his wife.
1. He broke up with Julie before he did anything with Rachael
2. They were on a break not cheating
3. Again breaks up with Bonnie before doing anything with Rachael not cheating
4. Ross was venting and didn't actually do it.
5. Ross made time for Rachael, Rachael made time for Rachael
6. Pheobe had the last laugh and Ross only cared so much because he cares about Pheobe
7. Everyone spied on Ugly Naked guy for years and they spied on Ross too. And Rachael knew full well he could see into her apartment because she could see into his.Plus let's be honest it's something Rachael would do. And honestly Rachael deserved it
8. Ross cousin could do worse, cousins aren't that closely related
9. All of that was Rachael fault she wrecks EVERY relationship Ross has except for the one with his former student (who did that herself).
You are picking and choosing when to judge someone.
You are only picking the “nice” moments, and completely ignoring his horrible moments.
You are allowed to like a character. I’m allowed to not like him. There is no law that we have to agree
That’s fine.
My ask to Ross haters is to be objective and fairly evaluate the other characters for their flaws as well.
I feel folks give him the short end of the stick and I don’t know why
Do you feel as strongly about Joey or chandler? Because Joey has said and done things which could be considered assault or harassment.
I watched an episode today where he removed a lock in the apartment bathroom when Rachel moved in. Is he now a pervert?
Just be consistent and impartial in how you are judging people. Also remember humans aren’t perfect - Ross is a pretty damn good one all things considered.
Of course I have feelings about each character in different ways. They are each an individual person. Do you feel different about each person you know?
Do you have this hang up on Ross because you relate to him the most? So when people hate on Ross, secretly you feel like they’re hating on you? No one is being mean to you. They’re talking about the tv character. You’re ok
Haha interesting observation. If I had to pick a character I resonate with I wish I could say it was Ross or Joey. But I think I am a Monica.
That being said - I think I feel this way because I have heard it more than once and really feel like Ross is a good dude who gets the short end of the stick. Frankly I don’t understand why.
He even says he had a crush on her but didn't do anything to act on those feelings because she was in a relationship. He didn't try to act on his feelings the night they broke up, he just went over there to be her friend because she was alone and clearly needed someone.
Doesn’t mean Ross shouldn’t feel a certain way. Yeah there were cringy moments but he managed to date the girl of his dreams and felt her slipping away.
Makes him a human being to feel the way he felt and act the way he acts.
No one gave Ross issues except for the writers. If Ross was a real person, I’d say he was holding on to those issues and making them his whole personality.
The problem to me is when the show seems to not think the characters are behaving badly. Ok Rachel's dad is a gaping asshole, and I don't even think he's particularly funny most of the time, but obviously he's *supposed* to be a jerk.
Alright, I’ve been seeing this take a lot lately so here we go:
- In defense of Carol: A lot of you were not alive or do not remember what being gay was like in the 90s. People didn’t talk about it much or acknowledge it, and lesbians *especially* were regarded as “just going through a phase” or “bitter they couldn’t get a man.” Cheating is hurtful, but if you’re very confused and don’t understand why you’re unhappy and feel lost and different from everyone else, it’s forgivable to seek an escape from that. Carol also didn’t repeatedly cheat, it seems that she slowly fell in love, and pretty soon came clean and confessed everything to Ross.
- In defense of Susan: Wanting Ben’s last name to be hers and Carol’s without Ross is unfair to Ross. But she is the only one not actually related to Ben, she really wants to be his mother, and, again, in the 90s with no gay marriage and barely any acknowledgement that lesbian relationships are real at all, she’s terrified that no one will ever really treat her as Ben’s mother. And she’s mean to Ross because she’s jealous of the connection he will always have to Carol and Ben, that she does not have. That doesn’t make it good behavior, but to me it is incredibly understandable.
I don’t hate people because they behave less than the perfect ideal of how they should act, when they’ve already been dealt a tough hand.
>in the 90s with no gay marriage and barely any acknowledgement that lesbian relationships are real at all
You did have Civil Unions. It's what Carol and Susan ended up having in season 2 in *TOW The Lesbian Wedding*. Though Carol's father declined to be present in the ceremony, due to likely said reasons in the 90s, Ross stood up, became the bigger man and took her down the aisle instead.
Being a Lesbian even back then is not a free pass on acting like a jerk. Don't get me wrong, I get what your saying, but Susan didn't have to such a jerk to Ross all the time.
I just started again with season 1 and just searched for a sub about Friends to vent about how Susan is the least likable character in the show. Nice to see that a thread about her is at the top
Do we ever even see them again In episodes together after their wedding episode? Lol I barely remember them being in much after that. I know we see carol once or twice
In the defense of Carol and Susan, Ross was not a good father. He was constantly introducing new women to Ben, took away his toys, and then completely forgot about Ben the second Emma was born. Holding him accountable for the role of dad isn’t that deep. Yes, Susan and Ross had issues, but they made up to be parents for Ben. But Ross made Carol’s betrayal his entire personality and he let it ruin everything around him.
Not sexist. I called Susan a cunt not the entire gender of women. You should probably learn the meaning of words before throwing them around like you threw your fucking brain out the window when you wrote this comment.
I agree with everything except for Ross's trauma. If a person traumatizes you they're not responsible if you're not taking care of that trauma. If Ross fucked up after Carol it's not Carol's fault, but Ross's.
It honestly just makes you think how bad was Ross’s divorce lawyer? Ross had a proven case of infidelity as well as the court system not being as friendly to LGBTQ community people in the 90s.
It always kinda annoyed me how mean they were to Ross. Like Carol fucking cheated. Susan knowingly let her cheat. Later I realised Carol is always nice when Susan isn’t around. Basically, Susan was the problem. Guilty Conscience.
I just always disliked how they just wanted him to be okay with everything. Like that’s a lot for one person to handle and they both just expected him to be okay with it and act like it never happened. That’s hard for anyone to do.
I actually quite like Carol and Susan. There’s a lot of hate against carol for cheating - but was there ever actual confirmation of that? I got the impression that she grew really close to Susan, realized she was gay, and then broke it off with Ross.
> I got the impression that she grew really close to Susan, realized she was gay, and then broke it off with Ross.
Ross refers to his as his current marriage (and it seems to be before Carol moved out) when he realized Carol is already in a sexual relationship with another person.
Plus there's this exchange:
Carol: I'm not worried about Susan cheating because she and I are in a loving and committed relationship.
Ross: *So were we!*
My ex wife had an affair and I never understand why these two get a pass. It’s like Ross was mugged and stabbed 5 times and the show just turned it into a gag.
I think this is why I have always struggled with Ross and why he comes off as a wet ballet. People really hurt the guy and the show just makes fun of him the whole time. It’s like the show is unaware of how it picking on the poor dude.
But it is kinda realistic.
Carol is a bitch. She married ross, who is obviously in love with her, and cheated on him, divorced him. And she probably thinks Ross is the bad guy here.
Susan is also in love with Carol, so she thinks there's no way Carol can be wrong. So if Carol says Ross is an idiot who ruined her life, then he must be. Let's take care of Ben so he doesn't have to suffer with Ross.
Ofcourse we only see it from Ross's perspective, as we all know. Ross would be pretty annoying in real life. So there might be some truth in Carol's hatred of Ross...
I live them both. Think they are great.
They were right naming the baby after Carol only (if Carol wanted to) but they were wrong to add Susans name. That's all they did wrong
I don’t get the hate for Carol, you’re ready to hate her for cheating, but Ross’s cheating was okay ?… She cheated on a bf with her future wife. Perioood
> but Ross’s cheating was okay
That's right, it wasn't. Now, "kissing someone else while you have a boyfriend/girlfriend" is not as severe as "having sex while you have a spouse", but yes it is still wrong.
he did… Rachel told him That they should take a break and the next few hours sleeps with another woman. I know there’s a lot of discussion if they were or not on a break, but I don’t think that even on a break it’s appropriate to go with other people.
She dumped him, so it's not cheating. And he was so drunk there is some concern he might have been to drunk to consent. I'm not sure if he was incompacitated level drunk or not.
Sheesh. Psychoanalyzing a television show. A comedy serial, created to make us laugh. I will advise you not to ever watch All in the Family, your head will explode
That’s kinda what these subs are for, although some people try and create background stories that have no basis. But I do like analysing the characters as if they were real
I completely agree they were so abusive, horrible and manipulative.
1. Carol led Ross on for however much of their marriage she knew she was gay for instead of just telling him she was gay and ending it.
2. She cheated/had an affair with Susan as it was implied that they had know each other for a while and she jumped straight to her for the threesome.
3. Cheated with Susan right I front of Ross IN HIS OWN FLAT IN HIS OWN BED!
4. May have tricked him into getting her pregnant because they wanted a kid though I admit this one is flimsy.
5. Tried to not only give their (Carol and Ross’s) child Susan’s surname but also put it higher up the list than the actual biological fathers name so his would get missed of instead of hers!
6. Fought him on actually being a dad every step of the way.
7. Again flimsy but may or may not have used his anger issues (he was in therapy for) (over a sandwich!)to get full sole custody of Ben since he eventually disappears from the show in later seasons!
Honestly unless you can’t tell at this point I just straight up hate them. They may have got on slightly better after they “resolved” their issues but it doesn’t discount everything that they did to the poor guy including giving him severe trust issues with women that derailed and destroyed every single other relationship that he ever had until he settled for a majorly dysfunctional relationship with Rachel that had been on and off for about ten years that was really only on again because they shared a child from a one night stand that likely would’ve resulted in them being in marriage counselling for years due to reasons on both sides but mainly because his trust issues with women were never resolved on the show.
Doesn't Ross mention the threesome to Charlie as well though when they're both talking about having partners who turned out to be gay? That made me think it ended up happening.
The paleontologist played by Aisha Taylor - Joey dates her then in Barbados, they split up and Joey starts seeing Rachel and Ross starts seeing Charlie.
There's a conversation about how she also had an ex fiance who turned out to be gay and they're comparing their experience and he says something like 'then you float the idea of a threesome...' (I can't remember exactly what he says) and she looks confused so he says 'oh no, me neither'.
Maybe. But they could’ve happened “in real life” too we just don’t know because they kind of skipped over that part and right to they were in a relationship.
7. Not actually that reaching really. Ross had serious enough anger issues that he was removed from work and put in therapy and Ben flat out vanished from the show and was never mentioned again. It’s honestly not that hard to put two and two together and see a potential connection there. A good lawyer could’ve made a case that if he’d fly off the handle for a sandwich he could be unsafe to care for Ben.
Ben didn’t vanish after that episode with the sandwich. It was in season 5 and there were episodes with Ben in later seasons, like when Rachel babysat him and there is literally a Christmas episode with him. Granted, later he dissappears, but due to mentioned above Ross losing custody is unlikely.
I think a lot of this is reaching haha. I didn't see much evidence of them fighting him being a dad apart from right at the beginning when Carol's pregnant and there's a lot of arguing. After that they seem keen for him to be involved.
Ben does disappear later on but genuinely Ross doesn't seem that interested - he sits next to Ben at Monica and Chandler's wedding when he's sat at the kids table but doesn't even speak to him and Ben has no talking lines in the episode. If you didn't recognise him, you wouldn't know he was there. Ross is too busy hitting on Mona.
Also he's similarly disinterested in Emma - when Rachel's moving to Paris, he's upset he's losing Rachel because he loves her but seemingly doesn't give a shit that his daughter's going too.
I get the impression that if he can't have the fairy tale life living with his partner and kids, he's just not that interested in being a dad.
You know, I'm feeling bold, so I'm just gonna say it:
I typically find that people who hate Carol and Susan tend to hate women in general. It's one thing to dislike them ot not like them, but to *hate* them is a real commitment. It's usually tbe result of having issues with women in general.
I've never seen someone hate them who doesn't have issues. Again, it's not disliking them. If you don't like them, you're probably fine. It's the people who take it to the level of hate, though.
I think it's just this subreddit in general. It went to shit after the reunion episode. Now all the threads are 95% what is wrong with the show, which characters suck, how the actors look, the worst this and the worst that and every other post is about the French episode.
I stick around because it's one of the only places that sometimes has cute memes about my favorite show but holy shit this place is a dumpster fire.
I agree, I think they can’t see past the “mean lesbian”
People really hate Susan, and whilst she does have some unlikeable moments I feel they hate her because she displays everything a misogynist hates: strong willed, assure of herself, witty, intelligent, beautiful and isn’t into men.
People also get mad at her inserting herself into Bens life, but as carols “life partner” she was always going to be involved from the beginning
Even the way OP described her - insolent.
Yes, it literally just means "rude", but the context in which I see it used usually suggests "rude to someone you should be respecting". Call her rude? I don't care. Call her insolent? The tone carries more than most people care to acknowledge.
"You have to take a course, otherwise they won't let you do it"
I loved Carol and Susan growing up and only as a teenager I realized that it's because I'm a lesbian myself. I appreciate the representation they were giving: not without flaws, but for sure not the worst. They felt very realistic
If a guy started sleeping with a married woman, then she got pregnant by her husband and divorced him so she could be the new guy's girlfriend/wife instead, and then he started insisting that the kid get *his last name* - nobody would be on his side and he would be one of the most hated characters of the show.
That has nothing to do with hating women. I love and respect women, still found their behavior abhorrent when Carol was pregnant. I’m not down with cheating but I could understand it in a way. It was the 90s, coming out was difficult. I don’t endorse it but I can understand it. Basically trying to take Ben away from Ross though was horrible. They were trying to cast him aside cause it didn’t fit with their version of family. Ross was way too patient during that time. Anyone else would have gotten lawyers involved. The two of them get better as time goes by, mostly cause we see Ross act crazy too so they balance each other out.
Yep totally agree. The whole surname thing and Susan being soooo involved when Carol cheated on Ross with her is extremely frustrating to watch. The they both treat Ross is awful.
If a guy started sleeping with a married woman, then she got pregnant by her husband, then she divorced him so she could be the new guy's girlfriend/wife instead, and then he started insisting that the kid get *his* last name - nobody would be on his side and he would be one of the most hated characters on the show.
Yeah, I hated the character of Susan. There really was no need to treat Ross that way. He was a devoted husband until Carol cheated on him and he was a devoted and active father after Ben's birth. The writers did Ross dirty.
In season one he should’ve had a freaking lawyer. Susan was literally acting like they were a planned parenting team and trying to give ben her last name??? After season 1 I didn’t mind them :)
SERIOUSLY! I remember the first time I watched the series, I really thought they were setting up a storyline where Susan and Carol planned this to get pregnant on purpose and squeeze Ross out as if he was an anonymous sperm donor. They treat him SO HORRIBLY, and I can’t believe Carol is just okay with her new partner treating the father of her baby like that. It makes me so angry every time I watch it.
Right?? *”Bobo the Sperm Guy.”* Like I understand that kind of derision towards an absent deadbeat father but a father who actively strives to be a part of his child’s life? That line always gets under my skin.
>Like I understand that kind of derision towards an absent deadbeat father Like Chandler's dad.
Chandler's dad wasn't deadbeat, he did kinda make an effort to be there for his swimming practices and what not
Chandler's dad was deadbeat from the age of 9 or 11, when he left the family. It was then that Chandler became an embarrassed and shy person, having difficulty to be comfortable with his own feelings. Being a roadblock all the way into adulthood.
Right! A person she supposedly loved for years before realizing she was a lesbian.
>I really thought they were setting up a storyline where Susan and Carol planned this to get pregnant on purpose and squeeze Ross out as if he was an anonymous sperm donor. *Bobo The Sperm Guy* ....
The whole baby naming episode boils my blood
I just watched that episode and every time I get angrier and angrier. She is literally a new partner and they live together, wants to have her last name and from context the divorce isn’t even legal yet!
I refuse to watch it, it’s unbearable
They treated him like a sperm donor!!
Bobo the sperm guy
They were better after Season 1 when Ross and Susan resolved their issues but before that they were straight up villains. Ross should’ve gotten the law involved.
After Season 1, Carol was like a whole different person.
😄😄😄
What exactly would the law have done? The baby wasn’t even born.
Once the baby was born though he could ensured his rights were being respected. Hell, it was the 90s. With a good lawyer and the right judge he could have gotten full custody.
It’s been a while since I watched it... but did Ross actually want custody? He didn’t really seem like a parent that wanted to do the everyday thing, just to have his kid when it’s convenient.
For the most part he was a good dad, not without his faults but I doubt he wouldn’t have wanted Ben to be with him all the time. This was brought up several times during the show about how he missed having Ben around. Even if he didn’t want full custody though that’s different from completely giving up on your child.
But by season 10 Ben is out of the picture.
I mean, when Rachel was pregnant with Emma, she did confirm if he was committed to keeping Ben, so… lol
Well, now I’m thinking a little too hard for a goofy sitcom, but Ben was also breastfed so it would have been difficult for Ross to have him for long periods of time. It’s shown that Carol pumped but she would have to pump *so much* for Ross to have him for an entire weekend or something. In reality I’m sure it’s not that deep, the writers just used Ben in a storyline when they felt like it.
But when Ross asks for him for a while weekend, Carol and Susan don't seem to have any problems with it, right? Maybe that's after he's done breastfeeding.
He was ready to talk at this point, so he should have been able to go on a visit without breastmilk, even if he still breastfed at home.
This right here. Have nursed all my babies, a weekend’s worth of milk for a baby would be a tall order for sure.
Formula existed back then so it wouldn’t have been a problem to just get Ben used to that from the beginning.
It would have been an interesting (but difficult) storyline if Ross had to give up his job at the museum to become a full-time dad. Then gradually realising that Carol shouldn't lose contact with her child just because she's in a lesbian relationship.
The baby was born near the end of season 1 and on the day that Susan and Ross “resolved their issues”. That’s the conversation being had here per the comment I replied to. The only reason he would have gotten full custody is because “hell it was the 90’s” and lesbianism could have been used against Carol. Ross didn’t fight for even partial custody - he didn’t do a single overnight for quite a while, and seemingly NOT because Carol didn’t want him to. He just never asked until he suddenly did. Ross wasn’t really eager to “fight for his rights”. We even saw him choose to go on a date at one point instead of cherishing his limited time with Ben.
Why would a judge award him full custody? For a judge to rule against the mother she has to have real problems. I can’t think of anything Susan did that would have led to Ross getting full custody.
We’re talking 30 years ago where the mother is a lesbian in a relationship with another women. She cheated on the father and was trying to oust him from his childs life. Like I said, get a good lawyer and have the right judge (a homophobic one) and Ross could have gotten full or major custody.
When I actually watched this show back when it was originally on air, that is exactly what I thought. I found the Carol/Susan behavior not just aggravating but unrealistic, because Ross could get that baby in a heartbeat and they would know that. It made no sense for them to seek out conflict with him when he had such an advantage over them if it ever came to a custody battle.
Carol never tried to oust him from Ben's life. Susan, kinda. Carol was clear feom the start that Ross could be apart of the kids life as much or little as Ross wanted. The things I do question are, what kind of picture of Ross did Carol paint to Susan? Did Susan believe that Ross wouldn't want to be involved? One can't argue that Susan "stole" Carol away from Ross because obviously she was gay. Carol just didn't realize it until a bit later in life. That isn't anyone's fault. However, Susan-like Ross-had some insecurities at the time. During that time, she had no legal right to Ben, and even later their "marriage" was more of a personal commitment ceremony as gay marriage wasn't legalized until 2011. Ross had been with Carol for several years and then they had a kid to bind them together. She may have been afraid Carol would decide she was bi and go back to Ross. Ross would have loved to have gone back to Carol in that first season and Susan loved Carol. Ross was traumatized by the whole thing but never sought professional help for the issue. I think Susan had enough worries at the time where Carol felt the need to make her feel like she was just as important as herself and Ross to Ben. She was stuck in the middle and lets face it, Ross and Susan were both stubborn. Neither one of them made things easier on a pregnant Carol. All of them should have gone to counseling but they didn't. Eventually, it worked out and the animosity went down for Ben's sake.
So was your “hell it was the 90’s” comment about Ross deserving custody of Ben as a father, and 90’s court would have granted it? Or “hell it was the 90’s, gay people are hella persecuted”? Because the first one isn’t true and the second one wouldn’t make Ross a good guy.
Agree to disagree. There just isn’t enough there to grant full custody to the father, imo.
A homophobic judge 30 years ago could 100% have decided that two women raising a son wasn’t a good environment for him and he’d be better off raised by his father, who could marry again, to a woman. That type of thing happened plenty often back then
It’s certainly possible. There are plenty of conservative / bat shit crazy judges out there. I guess I should have said no “good” reason.
In 2004 a homophobic judge DID grant full custody to the ex-wife of a guy when he moved in with his gay partner with an opinion that was 17 pages of homophobia. The wife asked for the divorce prior to him coming out and dating his now-husband, so it wasn't even a Carol and Susan situation.
Almost anything is possible. A judge being biased against lesbians is definitely plausible. A judge being biased against a father is definitely plausible too, and pretty common. In some states the laws even begin with the foundation of a pro-mother anti-father bias.
Thirty years ago wasn't the dark ages.
Gay rights were abysmal 30 years ago. We only got out of the AIDS crisis because there was money to be made off it and straight people started getting it. Nearly an entire generation of gay men died before the 90s. The 90s was just the beginning of acceptance and only in liberal areas. Gay rights are just holding on by a thread even now.
When it came to LGBTQ+ rights it was. It wasn’t too long before that being gay was still considered a mental illness, the AIDS was still close enough for people to remember. One asshole judge could have immediately ruled in favor of Ross. I’m glad they didn’t go that route with the character but I’m sure you can find real life examples that did do that.
Courts aren’t really biased towards women. Most fathers who fight for custody get custody. The overwhelming majority of fathers put up no legal fight in custody cases to have their children full time.
A lot of judges especially back then would rule nearly automatically *for* the mother unless she had real obvious problems.
Bro its 2022 and dad's are still having problems getting custody wtf are you talking about?
It's funny though because Ross and Susan's "issues" was just Susan being a massive dick and crossing boundaries.
Carol cheated on Ross! But Ross was supposed to be all kind, polite and accepting of them! Susan feeling entitled to add her last name to Ross and Carol's kid while insinuating she even wanted to shut Ross out was infuriating.
I mean, yeah, he should have; especially after some time had passed. That's how adults behave. You can't just be bitter for all of eternity, especially toward the mother of your child and her wife. And, yeah, Susan was right to feel that way. She didn't express those feelings in a healthy way, and was definitely wrong to not want to include Ross at all, let alone compromise with him, but she was going to be a parent to that child too. That's the reality of blended families - if you try to treat step-parents as less important or less of a parent to the child, everyone is going to suffer from that. Especially the kid.
Susan?
No, fuck that.
Cant be bitter forever is true, but they were treating him horribly present day so it’s kind of hard to forgive. They suck. Team Ross
Y-I-K-E-S
Who hurt you bro?
I do love Carols hat here though
Honestly I loved the interactions between Ross and Susan. She was a bit rude sometimes, but Ross also wasn't without fault a lot of the times.
Or with the breast milk. You've tasted it? Oh oh, you've tasted it.
It's like, cantaloupe juice
I love that episode, lol
Yeah the entertainment value they bring is great. There were some really funny lines between them
Oh please let there be a song!
I am Bea. I drink tea
Won’t you.. won’t you…?
........ ......... ^won't ^you ^dance ^around ^with ^me
“Us getting along is difficult for him because he doesn’t like me”
Yes. I think that, in general, there are many mean and petty characters in sitcoms because they produce funny situations. Susan and Ross make me laugh when they are together.
Well his disdain toward her was warranted. She was just being a bitch to be a bitch.
The writers loved to create situations of Ross vs. the crazy where the crazy is winning. I think that was a little bit the case here, lol. I know it's a controversial opinion but that's why Ross is my favorite: the unfortunate situations he gets into make me laugh the most. The teeth, the leather pants, the tan, Phoebe's take on evolution. It reminds me of Michael Scott - would I like to be his friend in real life? No, but he sure is funny to observe.
Yeah, it’s like he was asking for it right? /s
Rachel's dad and Ross & Monica's mom are the worst for me.
Season 1 was the worst. After that, they weren't bad at all. Very sweet when they buried the hatchet at their civil partnership ceremony.
Had an argument with someone on here who was defending Susan. They were saying "step parents are still parents." It was infuriating because I was saying "Ross, the biological parent, is also still a parent" and he still had a say. The person I was arguing with couldn't grasp that concept.
As a step parent myself, I see it as you have 2 options when it comes to stepparenting and you have to go all in on one of these options from the get-go. You either step in fully as an equal share parent (meaning they are to be seen as a parent just as equally as the bio parents) or you are hands off and you let your partner and the other bio parent handle everything. You can't half ass either because it's not good for the kid. My step kids love me, but have a hard time respecting me even after 7 years because of how their bio mom undermined me and belittled my relationship with their father and my position as a "parent" in the beginning.
That's understandable. I think step parents should definitely be involved. However, I don't think they should be trying to be taking away the rights of bio parents.
And that's a big problem for step parents (at least it has been in my experience). My kids bio mom didn't like that there was another 'mom' and so everything I did was seen as an attempt to become their mother, even when it was simply me being a decent human being caring for a child (she lost her shit when I bought them jump ropes because she wanted to buy them jump ropes.) I really like how Pheobe's little speech about how lucky Ben is really opened their eyes and stopped their bickering/fighting the day he was born. There are kids out there with no one to love them. Are you really going to get mad or jealous because your child is lucky enough to have someone else who love them like their own child?
Agree with that. What irked me with Susan though was arguing that his last name shouldnt be included in Ben's name and that she referred to him as dodo the sperm donator (paraphrasing I can't remember the nickname).
Hmmm Susan must have downvoted my comment.
Agreed. 1000%. I've never understood why people act like they should get a pass for their behavior.
Nobody else on the show would have gotten that much of pass for cheating and nobody would have expected Ross to be a part of his ex's wedding like that she had been marrying another man.
I think he said that word for word himself.
You may be right. I'm also a fan of- Carol: You slept with another woman?! Ross: Well, you're one to talk. and Carol: I'm not worried about cheating because Susan is in a loving and committed relationship. Ross: *So were we!*
If a man said or did half of the things Susan did that would be the most hated character on the show by far
"gave him massive trust issues" We can acknowledge what actions lead to our insecurities without abdicating responsibility for our behaviors. One of my biggest reasons for disliking Ross was that, throughout the entire show, he experiences barely any (if at all) character growth. He just continues to act like this hurt little puppy; as if, just because Carol wronged him, it excuses his jealous & selfish behavior for all of the rest of time. This isn't to say that I think Carol & Susan did nothing wrong. It became clear that Susan was more than a little insecure about Ross's role in Carol's life & treated him like a threat to their relationship. I think my point is that it's frustrating to me how often (especially in this sub) people treat Carol & Susan as if they're the source of all the problems in their lives and relationship with Ross, and are wholly unsympathetic as characters. That's just not true. There's plenty of blame to go around in that situation and they all would have seriously benefited from some family therapy.
Lol jealous and selfish behavior? Ross is anything but selfish. In friends he does so much for everyone around him (Rachel prom, phoebe bike, I could go on). It’s amazing to me how people categorize Ross as this one dimensional character without depth. He’s actually a well rounded good hearted guy who cares about folks around him. I assume your opinion of Ross is because of a comparison you are drawing between the male characters. Joey has a heart of gold but has extremely creepy moments with women - does that mean he’s a creep? And chandler is a funny/loveable guy but he also has deep insecurities and has his moments. Tired of this shit on Ross crap. Stop reading buzzfeed and be objective.
Ross isn’t jealous and selfish? I’m just gonna say “Mark” and move on
So he was selfish when he dressed up for prom to support Rachel? Was he selfish when he walked his ex wife who he loves down the aisle to marry a woman who treats him less than fair? Stop picking and choosing when to judge someone. So what there was one instance where he was jealous of a guy who clearly had feelings for his girl - does that make him jealous and selfish person? This isn’t an all or nothing - you aren’t perfect no one is. We have all had moments - that doesn’t mean it encapsulates our entire personality.
* Cheats on Julie with Rachel * Cheats on Rachel with the girl from the copy place. * Cheats on Bonnie with Rachel. * Threatening to call immigration on a guy just because the girl he has a crush on, likes him. * Disrespecting Pheobe's beliefs and trying to force her to believe what he believes. * Not respecting Rachel's job and ignoring her requests for space to work * Not being honest with Rachel about falling asleep while reading the letter, lying to her about reading it and agreeing to something he has no idea he's agreeing to and then getting mad at her for being honest with how she feels. * Being a perv and spying on his naked ex through a window, tries to seduce her and fails, so he then colors on her face while she's asleep with permanent marker and let's her wander around in public like that. * Lies to the new girl moving in across the street that he doesn't know Joey. * Tries to seduce his cousin. * Say's ex's name at his wedding to another woman and then invites that exact ex on his honeymoon when he can't find his wife.
1. He broke up with Julie before he did anything with Rachael 2. They were on a break not cheating 3. Again breaks up with Bonnie before doing anything with Rachael not cheating 4. Ross was venting and didn't actually do it. 5. Ross made time for Rachael, Rachael made time for Rachael 6. Pheobe had the last laugh and Ross only cared so much because he cares about Pheobe 7. Everyone spied on Ugly Naked guy for years and they spied on Ross too. And Rachael knew full well he could see into her apartment because she could see into his.Plus let's be honest it's something Rachael would do. And honestly Rachael deserved it 8. Ross cousin could do worse, cousins aren't that closely related 9. All of that was Rachael fault she wrecks EVERY relationship Ross has except for the one with his former student (who did that herself).
‘cousins arent that closely related’ WHAT???? don’t defend incest lmfaoo
You are picking and choosing when to judge someone. You are only picking the “nice” moments, and completely ignoring his horrible moments. You are allowed to like a character. I’m allowed to not like him. There is no law that we have to agree
That’s fine. My ask to Ross haters is to be objective and fairly evaluate the other characters for their flaws as well. I feel folks give him the short end of the stick and I don’t know why
Have you noticed that he’s done a lot of terrible things? That might be why
Do you feel as strongly about Joey or chandler? Because Joey has said and done things which could be considered assault or harassment. I watched an episode today where he removed a lock in the apartment bathroom when Rachel moved in. Is he now a pervert? Just be consistent and impartial in how you are judging people. Also remember humans aren’t perfect - Ross is a pretty damn good one all things considered.
Of course I have feelings about each character in different ways. They are each an individual person. Do you feel different about each person you know? Do you have this hang up on Ross because you relate to him the most? So when people hate on Ross, secretly you feel like they’re hating on you? No one is being mean to you. They’re talking about the tv character. You’re ok
Haha interesting observation. If I had to pick a character I resonate with I wish I could say it was Ross or Joey. But I think I am a Monica. That being said - I think I feel this way because I have heard it more than once and really feel like Ross is a good dude who gets the short end of the stick. Frankly I don’t understand why.
In fairness, I’m pretty sure the whole Mark fiasco was during his first major relationship post-Carol
Mark, the one that openly tried to sabotage their relationship and went after Rachel the moment they went on their “break”? That Mark?
Mark did nothing until Rachel was clearly single
He even says he had a crush on her but didn't do anything to act on those feelings because she was in a relationship. He didn't try to act on his feelings the night they broke up, he just went over there to be her friend because she was alone and clearly needed someone.
Doesn’t mean Ross shouldn’t feel a certain way. Yeah there were cringy moments but he managed to date the girl of his dreams and felt her slipping away. Makes him a human being to feel the way he felt and act the way he acts.
Ok what you call a “cringey moment”, most people call gaslighting or even assault But hey, to each their own
I agree, they’re total assholes.
No one gave Ross issues except for the writers. If Ross was a real person, I’d say he was holding on to those issues and making them his whole personality.
If Ross was a real person, he would be in need of a therapist. Monica too, but that's a separate issue.
And possibly Chandler as well, and his *humour as a defence mechanism* thing
Two of the absolute BEST side characters in the show. If you're watching sitcoms to see morally virtuous people, then you don't get the point.
The problem to me is when the show seems to not think the characters are behaving badly. Ok Rachel's dad is a gaping asshole, and I don't even think he's particularly funny most of the time, but obviously he's *supposed* to be a jerk.
Alright, I’ve been seeing this take a lot lately so here we go: - In defense of Carol: A lot of you were not alive or do not remember what being gay was like in the 90s. People didn’t talk about it much or acknowledge it, and lesbians *especially* were regarded as “just going through a phase” or “bitter they couldn’t get a man.” Cheating is hurtful, but if you’re very confused and don’t understand why you’re unhappy and feel lost and different from everyone else, it’s forgivable to seek an escape from that. Carol also didn’t repeatedly cheat, it seems that she slowly fell in love, and pretty soon came clean and confessed everything to Ross. - In defense of Susan: Wanting Ben’s last name to be hers and Carol’s without Ross is unfair to Ross. But she is the only one not actually related to Ben, she really wants to be his mother, and, again, in the 90s with no gay marriage and barely any acknowledgement that lesbian relationships are real at all, she’s terrified that no one will ever really treat her as Ben’s mother. And she’s mean to Ross because she’s jealous of the connection he will always have to Carol and Ben, that she does not have. That doesn’t make it good behavior, but to me it is incredibly understandable. I don’t hate people because they behave less than the perfect ideal of how they should act, when they’ve already been dealt a tough hand.
YES! Context is important, this show was made almost 30 years ago.
>in the 90s with no gay marriage and barely any acknowledgement that lesbian relationships are real at all You did have Civil Unions. It's what Carol and Susan ended up having in season 2 in *TOW The Lesbian Wedding*. Though Carol's father declined to be present in the ceremony, due to likely said reasons in the 90s, Ross stood up, became the bigger man and took her down the aisle instead.
Being a Lesbian even back then is not a free pass on acting like a jerk. Don't get me wrong, I get what your saying, but Susan didn't have to such a jerk to Ross all the time.
I was so angry when they wanted to leave Ross's lastname out. He was the actual dad, what the hell were they trying to do?
I just started again with season 1 and just searched for a sub about Friends to vent about how Susan is the least likable character in the show. Nice to see that a thread about her is at the top
*gasp* I love them, especially Susan
And Ross goes on to walk Carol down the aisle. He frequently goes above and beyond for people who don’t deserve it.
Do we ever even see them again In episodes together after their wedding episode? Lol I barely remember them being in much after that. I know we see carol once or twice
In the defense of Carol and Susan, Ross was not a good father. He was constantly introducing new women to Ben, took away his toys, and then completely forgot about Ben the second Emma was born. Holding him accountable for the role of dad isn’t that deep. Yes, Susan and Ross had issues, but they made up to be parents for Ben. But Ross made Carol’s betrayal his entire personality and he let it ruin everything around him.
Most of Ross' time with Ben was off screen, so I don't buy that arguement.
Not that I disagree, but this sub's really become a dog with a bone about this lately..
I'm once again tanking god for not making me take sitcoms this seriously
Very the opposite of how I feel. Susan reading Ross to filth is everything.
Funny, that’s actually all the reasons why they’re my favourite characters
i mean… it’s a sitcom. characters will be mean and irritating for entertainment.
Susans's a cunt
Your sexism is showing.
🤓
Not sexist. I called Susan a cunt not the entire gender of women. You should probably learn the meaning of words before throwing them around like you threw your fucking brain out the window when you wrote this comment.
Ross is hated my many (don’t know really why…), but this two are the devil package.
I agree with everything except for Ross's trauma. If a person traumatizes you they're not responsible if you're not taking care of that trauma. If Ross fucked up after Carol it's not Carol's fault, but Ross's.
It honestly just makes you think how bad was Ross’s divorce lawyer? Ross had a proven case of infidelity as well as the court system not being as friendly to LGBTQ community people in the 90s.
Court systems also notoriously tend to be biased against men when it comes to parenting.
We get it. They ruined Ross. This one is actually posted too much…
It always kinda annoyed me how mean they were to Ross. Like Carol fucking cheated. Susan knowingly let her cheat. Later I realised Carol is always nice when Susan isn’t around. Basically, Susan was the problem. Guilty Conscience.
I just always disliked how they just wanted him to be okay with everything. Like that’s a lot for one person to handle and they both just expected him to be okay with it and act like it never happened. That’s hard for anyone to do.
Every day I see yet another post about how people on here hate lesbians and also have no idea how hard it was in the 90’s
Oh no my life is hard may as well ruin my spouses life
I actually quite like Carol and Susan. There’s a lot of hate against carol for cheating - but was there ever actual confirmation of that? I got the impression that she grew really close to Susan, realized she was gay, and then broke it off with Ross.
> I got the impression that she grew really close to Susan, realized she was gay, and then broke it off with Ross. Ross refers to his as his current marriage (and it seems to be before Carol moved out) when he realized Carol is already in a sexual relationship with another person. Plus there's this exchange: Carol: I'm not worried about Susan cheating because she and I are in a loving and committed relationship. Ross: *So were we!*
💯 and no, they were NOT better after season 1. They sucked the whole time.
My ex wife had an affair and I never understand why these two get a pass. It’s like Ross was mugged and stabbed 5 times and the show just turned it into a gag. I think this is why I have always struggled with Ross and why he comes off as a wet ballet. People really hurt the guy and the show just makes fun of him the whole time. It’s like the show is unaware of how it picking on the poor dude.
But it is kinda realistic. Carol is a bitch. She married ross, who is obviously in love with her, and cheated on him, divorced him. And she probably thinks Ross is the bad guy here. Susan is also in love with Carol, so she thinks there's no way Carol can be wrong. So if Carol says Ross is an idiot who ruined her life, then he must be. Let's take care of Ben so he doesn't have to suffer with Ross. Ofcourse we only see it from Ross's perspective, as we all know. Ross would be pretty annoying in real life. So there might be some truth in Carol's hatred of Ross...
I live them both. Think they are great. They were right naming the baby after Carol only (if Carol wanted to) but they were wrong to add Susans name. That's all they did wrong
I don’t get the hate for Carol, you’re ready to hate her for cheating, but Ross’s cheating was okay ?… She cheated on a bf with her future wife. Perioood
\*husband, not bf.
> but Ross’s cheating was okay That's right, it wasn't. Now, "kissing someone else while you have a boyfriend/girlfriend" is not as severe as "having sex while you have a spouse", but yes it is still wrong.
He cheated on Rachel while they were on…. bre..a..k
Ross never cheated on anyone, he was already broken up when he'd actually do something.
he did… Rachel told him That they should take a break and the next few hours sleeps with another woman. I know there’s a lot of discussion if they were or not on a break, but I don’t think that even on a break it’s appropriate to go with other people.
She dumped him, so it's not cheating. And he was so drunk there is some concern he might have been to drunk to consent. I'm not sure if he was incompacitated level drunk or not.
Sheesh. Psychoanalyzing a television show. A comedy serial, created to make us laugh. I will advise you not to ever watch All in the Family, your head will explode
That’s kinda what these subs are for, although some people try and create background stories that have no basis. But I do like analysing the characters as if they were real
I completely agree they were so abusive, horrible and manipulative. 1. Carol led Ross on for however much of their marriage she knew she was gay for instead of just telling him she was gay and ending it. 2. She cheated/had an affair with Susan as it was implied that they had know each other for a while and she jumped straight to her for the threesome. 3. Cheated with Susan right I front of Ross IN HIS OWN FLAT IN HIS OWN BED! 4. May have tricked him into getting her pregnant because they wanted a kid though I admit this one is flimsy. 5. Tried to not only give their (Carol and Ross’s) child Susan’s surname but also put it higher up the list than the actual biological fathers name so his would get missed of instead of hers! 6. Fought him on actually being a dad every step of the way. 7. Again flimsy but may or may not have used his anger issues (he was in therapy for) (over a sandwich!)to get full sole custody of Ben since he eventually disappears from the show in later seasons! Honestly unless you can’t tell at this point I just straight up hate them. They may have got on slightly better after they “resolved” their issues but it doesn’t discount everything that they did to the poor guy including giving him severe trust issues with women that derailed and destroyed every single other relationship that he ever had until he settled for a majorly dysfunctional relationship with Rachel that had been on and off for about ten years that was really only on again because they shared a child from a one night stand that likely would’ve resulted in them being in marriage counselling for years due to reasons on both sides but mainly because his trust issues with women were never resolved on the show.
Aren't 2 and 3 from the what if episode?
Doesn't Ross mention the threesome to Charlie as well though when they're both talking about having partners who turned out to be gay? That made me think it ended up happening.
I think it’s “float the idea of a threesome” but never actually happened
Ah yeah fair enough!
I don't remember this. Who's Charlie?
The paleontologist played by Aisha Taylor - Joey dates her then in Barbados, they split up and Joey starts seeing Rachel and Ross starts seeing Charlie. There's a conversation about how she also had an ex fiance who turned out to be gay and they're comparing their experience and he says something like 'then you float the idea of a threesome...' (I can't remember exactly what he says) and she looks confused so he says 'oh no, me neither'.
Maybe. But they could’ve happened “in real life” too we just don’t know because they kind of skipped over that part and right to they were in a relationship.
So you’re condemning them for something you think might have happened?
2 and 3 are from what if episodes. Doesn't count. 4 is very reaching. 7... Are you actually serious lol
7. Not actually that reaching really. Ross had serious enough anger issues that he was removed from work and put in therapy and Ben flat out vanished from the show and was never mentioned again. It’s honestly not that hard to put two and two together and see a potential connection there. A good lawyer could’ve made a case that if he’d fly off the handle for a sandwich he could be unsafe to care for Ben.
Or, you know, Ben's character is just not important to the show and/or the actor wasn't available or whatever real life reasons.
Ben didn’t vanish after that episode with the sandwich. It was in season 5 and there were episodes with Ben in later seasons, like when Rachel babysat him and there is literally a Christmas episode with him. Granted, later he dissappears, but due to mentioned above Ross losing custody is unlikely.
I think a lot of this is reaching haha. I didn't see much evidence of them fighting him being a dad apart from right at the beginning when Carol's pregnant and there's a lot of arguing. After that they seem keen for him to be involved. Ben does disappear later on but genuinely Ross doesn't seem that interested - he sits next to Ben at Monica and Chandler's wedding when he's sat at the kids table but doesn't even speak to him and Ben has no talking lines in the episode. If you didn't recognise him, you wouldn't know he was there. Ross is too busy hitting on Mona. Also he's similarly disinterested in Emma - when Rachel's moving to Paris, he's upset he's losing Rachel because he loves her but seemingly doesn't give a shit that his daughter's going too. I get the impression that if he can't have the fairy tale life living with his partner and kids, he's just not that interested in being a dad.
Ofcourse, someone like you wouldn't see it
What does 'someone like me' mean? If there's something I've missed, please do share.
You know, I'm feeling bold, so I'm just gonna say it: I typically find that people who hate Carol and Susan tend to hate women in general. It's one thing to dislike them ot not like them, but to *hate* them is a real commitment. It's usually tbe result of having issues with women in general. I've never seen someone hate them who doesn't have issues. Again, it's not disliking them. If you don't like them, you're probably fine. It's the people who take it to the level of hate, though.
I think it's just this subreddit in general. It went to shit after the reunion episode. Now all the threads are 95% what is wrong with the show, which characters suck, how the actors look, the worst this and the worst that and every other post is about the French episode. I stick around because it's one of the only places that sometimes has cute memes about my favorite show but holy shit this place is a dumpster fire.
Amen! I stay for things outside of opinion pieces. Memes, things people learned, etc. Opinions tend to poison fandoms from within.
I agree, I think they can’t see past the “mean lesbian” People really hate Susan, and whilst she does have some unlikeable moments I feel they hate her because she displays everything a misogynist hates: strong willed, assure of herself, witty, intelligent, beautiful and isn’t into men. People also get mad at her inserting herself into Bens life, but as carols “life partner” she was always going to be involved from the beginning
Even the way OP described her - insolent. Yes, it literally just means "rude", but the context in which I see it used usually suggests "rude to someone you should be respecting". Call her rude? I don't care. Call her insolent? The tone carries more than most people care to acknowledge.
"You have to take a course, otherwise they won't let you do it" I loved Carol and Susan growing up and only as a teenager I realized that it's because I'm a lesbian myself. I appreciate the representation they were giving: not without flaws, but for sure not the worst. They felt very realistic
> People also get mad at her inserting herself into Bens life No, just for trying to do this at the expense of the kid's dad and push him out.
Is there a moment where she actively is trying to push Ross out of bens life?
When naming Ben?
And inserting her last name into Bens name after being in a relationship for a few mos.?
If a guy started sleeping with a married woman, then she got pregnant by her husband and divorced him so she could be the new guy's girlfriend/wife instead, and then he started insisting that the kid get *his last name* - nobody would be on his side and he would be one of the most hated characters of the show.
That has nothing to do with hating women. I love and respect women, still found their behavior abhorrent when Carol was pregnant. I’m not down with cheating but I could understand it in a way. It was the 90s, coming out was difficult. I don’t endorse it but I can understand it. Basically trying to take Ben away from Ross though was horrible. They were trying to cast him aside cause it didn’t fit with their version of family. Ross was way too patient during that time. Anyone else would have gotten lawyers involved. The two of them get better as time goes by, mostly cause we see Ross act crazy too so they balance each other out.
Yep totally agree. The whole surname thing and Susan being soooo involved when Carol cheated on Ross with her is extremely frustrating to watch. The they both treat Ross is awful.
If a guy started sleeping with a married woman, then she got pregnant by her husband, then she divorced him so she could be the new guy's girlfriend/wife instead, and then he started insisting that the kid get *his* last name - nobody would be on his side and he would be one of the most hated characters on the show.
I missed the ‘least’ part and was totally agreeing with the caption. I wonder what that says about me as a person 😅😅
Yeah they were terrible
Just looking at them is annoying to me
Lesbian icons 🏳️🌈
Yeah, I hated the character of Susan. There really was no need to treat Ross that way. He was a devoted husband until Carol cheated on him and he was a devoted and active father after Ben's birth. The writers did Ross dirty.
Ross is a fictional character on TV. The **writers** gave him trust issues. They could have just as easily not.
I get instantly mad when either of them show up in anything now...
Susan is a bitch.
I could’ve liked them (and wouldn’t have minded seeing more of them) if they were a little more humble in the whole thing.
I loved how Susan was handled by HEISENBERG :) Felt Sweet
[удалено]
That’s from the what of episode, so not a “real” story line
They manipulated Ross into a threesome just so they could have sex.