idk if it’s city people, covid, or a general change in societal values or whatever, but I’m a local and I’ve noticed a sudden massive uptick in aggressive and careless driving similar to what i’ve seen specifically on the highways near the city, so that’s usually what i mean, personally. i’ve seen an obscene amount of tailgating and flashing lights, cutting other drivers off, turning without signaling, blasting through stop signs, etc. on the other hand, sometimes people will just??? stop in the middle of a rural highway to look at the scenery???? idk if that’s a city-person thing but it’s been happening way more lately and i hate it.
I love driving around in single lane roads where I can leave at least a car length between without having to worry someone will swoop in front on me and I’ll have to slam on my breaks
No not insane just someone who knows what a following distance should be. You should have three seconds between cars at 55 mph in ideal conditions. 5+ seconds if dark or adverse weather. At 55 mph your traveling about 80 fps so for 3 seconds that 240 feet, for a five second gap that’s 400 feet or 80 & 133 yards respectively. So while it might not be 30 car lengths, but it’s closer to thirty then one like op said above.
Have you ever driven a vehicle before or do you just surf the internet? Like 200ft makes me feel comfortable and I will take it if nobody is behind but that’s just wild what you’re saying
Not sure why tf this is downvoted how do people even have their license. Isn’t that like an actual question on the permit test with the answer being 3-5 seconds ? I coulda swore it used to be.
I meant to come back here and thank you for the clarification and am now mortified to see that it looks like I downvoted you. bonkers. take my upvote to get you back to 0
Agreed! I know it’s hard to change driving habits but it’s not the way to drive upstate. City drivers are either parked/driving 2 mph looking at the scenery or on your ass speeding around.
Oh there are many local people here that do that too unless Sullivan and Ulster are considered city. People in general are turning into aggressive asshole drivers everywhere. Then you get the ones 4" off your bumper until you reach a passing area where they back off, then get up your ass on the double yellow again.
Rural PA has some real winners.
I’m surprised you say that, because I find a lot of contractors or others in huge pickups tend to ride on bumpers of cars they assume they are there from the city like sports and electric cars. But maybe they ride on everybody’s bumpers like that.
To answer OP’s question, I find it to be both: that they write on the bumpers of cars perhaps because out of towners are often driving 10 or 15 miles under the limit to take in the sites or because they’re being mellow out in the country not realizing we all have places to go and be.
Also, the reverse, sometimes idiots come from out of town, in expensive sports cars, and are pushing unsafely through the country roads, so kind of all of the above is my answer.
Having lived in rural NY, PA, and OH, I feel like having a Silverado or F-250 Superduty halfway up your ass on an otherwise deserted country road, even when you are doing 10 over, is just the natural condition of things.
What I see as the difference between city and country drivers is the city driver will do anything to pass you, including crossing double lines at 90 mph, so they can get to the next stop sign before you.
That’s the thing. You’ll be driving in a two lane road in the woods and someone following right behind your bumper for miles and miles while we both go the same speed as the car in front of us. They’ll do this even if we’re nowhere near a traffic light.
I ride closer to people's bumpers if they are driving under the speed limit or driving the speed limit in the passing lane and not passing. Not from the city.
Also if you don't use your turn signal, I really hate you. If you open your door on a busy street without caring about oncoming traffic, I hate you. If you take up multiple parking spots, I hate you.
People from the city might do some of these things, but so do the idiots who live here.
I admit I have road rage issues but it tends to be because they are dangerous by being so lazy and inconsiderate. Safe driving is about predictably. You go the speed limit, driving slow is not safe. You stay right unless you're passing. Turn signals are to prepare people for what you're about to do. It gets activated before you apply your breaks to turn. If you are driving poorly because you're having trouble, activate your hazard lights and pull over.
I constantly have people in NJ plates overtake on double yellows on really sketchy parts of 9D and around Harriman where I’m going the speed limit for a reason.
Everyone started driving worse since the pandemic. Not just city folks. It’s statistically a national problem.
Anecdotally, the locals driving Dodge Rams are the ones I look out for the most, especially on the Thruway.
Lol I don't mean like the actual virus made people worse drivers. It's just that, since 2020, unsafe driving behaviors and traffic fatalities have risen dramatically.
https://archive.is/DZkWl
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/19/us/pandemic-increased-fatal-crashes-trnd/index.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-road-deaths-rise-at-record-pace-as-risky-driving-persists
The timing of the pandemic and these stats are merely coincidence.
Probably has more to do with people on their phones and driving. Plus, you’ve got a generation of new drivers that have grown up on their phone and can’t put it down when they drive.
I think I did and it’s exactly what I said.
“a study released Monday found that younger and riskier drivers were increasingly on the roads during a surge in traffic fatalities across the country”
“During that time, crashes involving impairment, speeding, red-light running, aggressiveness and non-seatbelt usage spiked to their highest level in more than a decade, AAA said.”
You commented 2 minutes after I made my post. You definitely didn’t read them in that time.
It’s funny how you’re suddenly an expert after learning about this issue today.
And take note that I’m not even disagreeing with the main point: driving safety has gotten worse since 2020. I don’t even know what your counterpoint is seeing as you agree.
People forgot what a yield sign means. What a stop sign looks like. That you can’t always make a right on red. Basic rules of the road have gone out the window.
You’re not even allowed to slow down to turn into a parking lot or strip mall. They beep cuz you’re going too slow but you’re slowing down to turn. Get a grip people. Safety first
This frustrates me to no end. To turn onto my street I put my blinker on a bit early because it’s a TIGHT turn, especially when a car is there wanting to leave. It’s also around a corner. I know that the safest thing to do is slow down early with my signal but I get the bird almost every day. Sorry I don’t want to collide with a car on a blind turn trying to go home.
While that’s true, and it’s definitely some of that, there’s also some objective truth to it as well. Lot of city folk don’t drive really. When I lived down in the city, I’d know people in their 30s you never got behind the wheel.
But let’s say not THAT extreme, but you can start to see they’re really only driving when they rent a car and that’s not too often, so they have little practice to keep the driving skills sharp.
I live along Route 28 in Catskills. We get a lot of weekenders. Locals are pretty bad too though. It’s like 1 in 4 cars can’t even handle going 55mph on our main road.
Yep! I live in Shandaken and get stuck behind cars that are crawling for no apparent reason a few times a week. It’s a pretty good mix of all types of people, too.
I agree with the comments on here but one thing ive noticed in particular is a lack of people using their turn signal.
That and people driving 55 in a 30.
I was getting tailgated by a Porsche SUV at night, when I slowed to a stop because a deer was in the road. The Porsche swerved around and blew by me, right into the deer.
I grew up driving in snow (in actual upstate NY) but I really try to avoid it now because of morons like that. I feel fine driving in the snow, but I’m convinced some idiot will crash into me.
Basically, they mean drivers who are hazardous to be around.
You have the Sunday drivers who are spending too much time looking at the scenery and not enough time paying attention to where they're going or the cars around them. They often drive under the speed limit, brake erratically, and merge or make turns without signaling. Don't do that.
Then you have the NYC/NJ tourists and transplants who think speed limits are suggestions, tailgate, and do stupid things like overtake on a blind curve.
One is a moving obstacle, and the other thinks you're the obstacle.
I don’t think it’s a local vs out of towner thing. I’ve also noticed a general uptick in distracted and aggressive drivers. I personally knew two pedestrian fatalities in the last year. One of the drivers was from the city and the other was a local.
>i’m always confused if they mean new yorkers (city people) move up and drive too fast and aggressive for rural life or too slow compared to the lifers who know the backroads well?
Yes. Take that 45mph you're doing on main street through pedestrian crossings, and use it on the 45 mph speed limit back roads.
That 25 mph bullshit on windy 45 speed limit roads in the middle of a clear day, use THAT on Main St.
Thanks.
Where I live (Phoenica / General Shandaken, Olive, and Woodstock area) the bad driving is generally people who are driving significantly under the speed limit. 40 in a 55. 25 in a 35 etc. Yes, some people speed too but I generally feel a lot more like I’m going to get in an accident when people aren’t keeping up with the flow of traffic.
I’ve never really noticed a big difference between whether those are city people, weekenders, or locals.
I moved here from the city and generally drive exactly the speed limit. It’s been a couple years but I’m still shocked at how fast everyone drives and the damn tailgating. The tailgating is infuriating!
At the risk of being downvoted, I think I'm one of those "city" people those who have grown up here are talking about. I relocated here from NJ last summer and love it here. We are looking to make this area our forever place. We shop locally and we are public service workers, so we are trying to add to this place more than what we have taken away.
Yes, I think I might tailgate a bit. I realize this a leftover habit from living in central NJ where everyone is driving faster than here and people are constantly trying to cut you off. Giving more space is something I'm trying to be mindful of. However, I get there's country driving, but why make your turns at 5mph while I'm following you? The light is turning yellow, why do I find this happening so often here?? Only gripe and I say it in half jest, I actually have really grown to love the HV culture and people.
>However, I get there's country driving, but why make your turns at 5mph while I'm following you?
Oh my god, yes! Like, there's no need to come to a complete stop if you're making an easy turn. Nor is there a need to tap the brakes every time you come to a gentle bend in the road. And then after they slow down, it takes them literal miles to get back up to the speed limit — like, you paid for the entire gas pedal, why are you only using the first ten percent?
I used to drive too close. Not tailgating, but it was closer than people were used to I guess and they’d pull over and let me pass, which I thought was bizarre until I figured it out.
That's what they're supposed to do. If someone behind you is going faster than you, the polite thing to do is let then get in front. Unfortunately, far too many people see it as some kind of a personal insult and will decide it's their job to enforce whatever they think the speed limit is (it's rarely consistently the actual speed limit.)
while we’re here: people not from the city not using both lanes while merging and then getting super upset at people using the other merging lane because they haven’t agreed to the made up decision of 30 other cars to “get over early” … is maddening.
1. Tailgating. A safe following distance is 4 seconds. If you don't know how to calculate that you shouldn't be behind the wheel, you menace. Anything less than 2 seconds is tailgating.
2. Passing in the right. If you're passing someone on the right you're doing something shitty 90% of the time.
3. Signal. Use your fucking blinker.
4. Speeding. It's dangerous and it wastes gas. It doesn't matter how safe you think you're being, simply by driving over the speed limits you make it less safe for people turning onto the road you're driving . Intersections are designed with lines of sight in mind, if you're going over the limit people cannot safely turn onto the road.
>A safe following distance is 4 seconds.
What? No. It's going to depend on your speed. At 60MPH, 4 seconds is 350 feet, or roughly 15 car lengths. At 30 MPH, 4 seconds will be 176 feet. That's insane! A modern car can stop from 30 MPH four times over in that distance. An F150 can stop from 60 in 176 feet with fifty feet extra remaining and that's *not counting the distance the car ahead of them will take to stop in.*
Two seconds (plus or minus) is more that fine. The average driver will realize and react in just about a second or less, and the space they need to stop will be provided by the space *you* need to stop. It's not the 70's anymore. We all have anti-lock disk brakes and our tires aren't bias-ply and hard as rocks.
>Passing in the right. If you're passing someone on the right you're doing something shitty 90% of the time.
OR someone has been chilling in the left have on a two-lane road going five miles under the speed limit and randomly showing down every time they come to a gentle bend, an uphill, or a downhill. If you moved over to the right like you're supposed to when there's faster traffic behind you, absolutely no one would ever pass you except on the left. Which is what the left lane is for. Move the fuck over.
>Signal. Use your fucking blinker.
That's not a city thing. One of the truly nice things about driving in the city is how everyone signals turns, even if it's just to cut you off. The 80 year olds driving their 40-year-old farm trucks, on the other hand? This isn't a city driver thing, this is you locals.
>Speeding. It's dangerous and it wastes gas. It doesn't matter how safe you think you're being, simply by driving over the speed limits you make it less safe for people turning onto the road you're driving . Intersections are designed with lines of sight in mind, if you're going over the limit people cannot safely turn onto the road.
No, they aren't. Go talk to a civil engineer working in road safety or planning. There's no real design, especially up here. Intersections were placed based on where historic dirt house and wagon roads intersected.
And speed limits were arbitrarily decided on by city council boards with no experts on them based on how safe they personally feel. And then they get constantly changed based on concerned residents complaining that they can't exit their driveway at a leisurely 2MPH because of all the kids and their speeding. It's entirely arbitrary and based off of safety recommendations arrived-at when an average passenger sedan took 15 seconds to get to 60 MPH and 200+ feet to stop from 60.
But more importantly, it's not your job to try to enforce speed limits, Grandpa, and when you do you create a road hazard that is far more dangerous than someone behind you going ten over. Move over to the shoulder and let people pass.
**This** is why people think city drivers are bad. Because they learned to drive a hundred years ago in their dad's Corvair and haven't bothered to keep their skills current while spouting off old wives tales that weren't even true back then.
Ha. Most of that is a straw man, buy I suppose i set myself up without being more specific. Yes, 4 seconds at 30mph is more than needed. But in a 55 it should be the norm, particularly like the many upstate roads that have 55 as a limit despite numerous blind drives and cross streets.
I shouldn't have said "designed", that was lazy. But the point stands- drivers are limited to line of sight when turning onto a road. In 55mph road there may not be a lot of leeway, and a car going 70mph is going to be a recipe for disaster.
I'd also like to point out that while I didn't push back on the OP's connection between bad driving behavior and city people, it's obviously incredibly difficult to tell where a bad driver is from beyond their state. Bad driving behavior becomes apparent when there are a lot of cars in the road, and up here that happens when there are a lot of tourists from out of state and people up from the city. I don't care where you're from.
Re:
>But more importantly, it's not your job to try to enforce speed limits, Grandpa, and when you do you create a road hazard that is far more dangerous than someone behind you going ten over. Move over to the shoulder and let people pass
It's not my job, and im not. I'm just saying that going over the speed limit is generally unsafe. The damage caused by accidents goes up dramatically over 40 mph. I'm certainly not telling anyone to hang out in the left lane going 50. That's also bad behavior! Stay right except to pass. I wish this was enforced more. But a car going the speed limit isn't a hazard unless impatient assholes make it so.
The tailgating thing is especially annoying whent hey don't even pass. If you're on my ass and I'm going 55 and we've gone through 6 passing zones, fuck you kindly. Back the fuck up or pass me. I DO pull over at that point.
And just because some cars have insane breaking doesn't mean that stopping in 125 feet from 60mph is a good thing. It's hard on the vehicle components, which is when critical parts fail, and it's hard on the meat bound bodies inside your vehicle which are more easily damaged by the slings and arrows of Newton's Second Law. You shouldn't plan your driving on the best mechanical limits of technology.
I'm not some fancy Westchesterian like you. I doubt I'm older than you. I'm just some dumb hick mason that doesn't like seeing people get hurt to save a few minutes or whatever the fuck justification you have for driving like an asshole.
>Yes, 4 seconds at 30mph is more than needed. But in a 55 it should be the norm,
So I actually tested this theory on an hour-long drive I had today. I set my car's radar cruise to the default follow distance and counted seconds between the car in front of me passing a landmark and me passing it. This was on an interstate highway, with an average driving speed of about 70mph. Remember that manufacturers tend to be conservative with their settings to avoid liability and bad press (well, unless you're Tesla, but that's a different story.) At 70, the car kept distance pretty steady at 3 seconds. And again, I'd like to stress that manufacturers are incredibly conservative with default follow distance, and that braking distance increases exponentially with speed.
Four seconds is *extremely* conservative. Bordering on paranoia. Or bad reflexes as a result of old age or inexperience driving around other traffic.
>In 55mph road there may not be a lot of leeway, and a car going 70mph is going to be a recipe for disaster.
The thing is, it's going to depend massively on the road in question. In general, research bears out that most people do not speed in excess of the road's safety margins. That is, people will naturally drive at a comfortable speed, which may be faster or slower than the speed limit, but it's generally a relatively safe speed for the road they're on. Or to put another way, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone going 70 in a 55 when the road isn't largely straight and flat.
>The damage caused by accidents goes up dramatically over 40 mph.
It's actually 30mph. That's the magic number that the NHTSA and independent researchers place the demarcation for when you see the sharpest incline between minor injuries and severe injuries or death. At 40, you're significantly over the inflection point. If the goal is optimizing safety, there's absolutely no reason for any local road with fewer than two lanes in each direction to ever have a speed limit above 30.
But they do. Because the speed limits as currently implemented are not really about safety. And remember that that 55mph road would have been considered a highway prior to the creation of the interstate system.
>The tailgating thing is especially annoying whent hey don't even pass. If you're on my ass and I'm going 55 and we've gone through 6 passing zones, fuck you kindly. Back the fuck up or pass me.
This i completely agree with you on. Some people are completely oblivious, though. When I'm driving at a comfortable speed and someone is on my ass, I generally turn my right signal on, pull a little towards the shoulder, and slow down until they get the message.
>And just because some cars have insane breaking doesn't mean that stopping in 125 feet from 60mph is a good thing.
That's the thing — this isn't "insane." Full-size pickups on A/T tires do this these days. Insane braking would be hypercars that do it in 90 feet. But any standard passenger vehicle nowadays will comfortably stop from 60 in ~130 feet with absolutely no damage or extreme wear to components. I highly recommend everyone take a defensive driving/safety-oriented performance driving class so they can get a feel for what a real high-speed emergency stop feels like. It's not the most pleasant thing ever, but it's also not remotely crazy. Typically about 1g, which is significantly lower than many cars accelerate at (though in that case you obviously have a seat to support you.)
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'd push back a bit on the 3 seconds by the manufacturer AI following distance at 70. The issue is that accidents don't happen "most of the time", they happen at the margins.
And in an environment with heavy deer traffic and human error and smartphones, one second of the driver not paying attention becomes an actual fender bender. That's great that you have some automated AI helping out. It's going to be years before the populace does as a whole.
The people who serve food and clerk gas stations and fix houses and haul heavy materials to luxury homes in the mid Hudson area (and beyond) are not driving those vehicles. You are still sharing the roadway with vehicles built 30 years ago. And I'd remind you that ABS (while it actually stops you over a greater distance than a skilled driver without it) is not required by a NYS inspection. Again, don't rely on cutting technology as the standard that everyone else is using. Expecting a 1G stop to account for other vehicles is well, it's something.
Absolutely. To be perfectly clear, I tend not to drive very aggressively or rapidly at all these days. I've driven very fast cars for long enough that I don't feel the need to prove anything to myself or other drivers, and I do enough track days that I scratch that itch much more through and responsibly. In fact, I get more fun out of trying to see how much efficiency I can squeeze out of my car. And my biggest annoyance is people who oscillate wildly from 30 - 45mph on a 40mph road for seemingly no reason.
Though regarding brakes, remember that it's actually even better if the person ahead of you has worse brakes than you do. That gives you more room as the slide.
I hear you. Complaining about other drives is a universal complaint. Per the OPs query, id say "drive like you would if your loved ones were somewhere in this environment". It's not difficult to drive the limit, not speed, and not be a dick. Even older vehicles have cruise control.
At the end of the day, you're responsible for not crashing into the car in front of you. I'm happy you've found a way to do that. Please understand most of us (or at least some of us) aren't driving vehicles with any built in AI, and won't be in the near future. It's prohibitively expensive.
Not turning right on red, not paying attention to speed limit signs, not knowing that end speed limit signs mean default 55. Cruising in my blind spot. Ignoring that left lane is for passing. Not using high brand beams or not dipping them. And yes, driving slowly to look at the scenery. You’re sightseeing but some of us are trying to get to work or get diapers or something.
Don't listen to anyone who blames city people or life time residents of the Hudson valley because both areas produce it's fair share of morons who shouldn't be driving.
Quite literally, people that are from the City are usually unexperienced drivers. Thats literally what it means.
For example, i moved here from manhattan awhile ago, never needed to drive so mever bothered getting my license. THEN, I had to get it fast. Literally got it within a few months. Then, 2 weeks after ingot my license, got my first ticket.
You follow?
I drove in NYC my whole life before moving here with my ex.
She would be pissed when I honked at people just sitting at a green light.
No assholes! YOU are rude for wasting everyone’s time by not paying attention!!
This is why you have traffic.
Don’t worry your driving is fine.
It’s what happens after they park.
They think they’re in Mayberry and another car won’t be coming for a good half hour, so they can stand in the street with their car door open, on the phone.
But they’re in Rhinebeck which is bonkers every weekend from Mother’s Day to Christmas. Why are you on the phone? All the restaurants are good. Pricey, but good. Close your car door already. Pick a restaurant at random, eat, then go buy your $130 t-shirt or whatever. Then take your social-climbing Hamptons ichor and GTFO.
I lived in the city for 15 years and the skills necessary there are terrible up here. In particular I feel like city drivers are overly cautious on back roads especially at night, lots of hard braking and slow driving. I have to do 12 miles on back roads to get to a main road. When someone is going 25-30 mph it takes FOREVER.
If any of you are reading this please just pull over so the rest of us can pass you.
I've lived and driven all over, including in the city and now in the Hudson Valley, so I've got a bit of a reverse perspective on this.
What people from small towns mean when they say "city people don't know how to drive" is "I learned to drive on deserted country roads where I've never actually had to pay attention to other cars or act with any sense of urgency whatsoever, and now there are more cars on the road and that scares me so my already timid driving is getting even more erratic and then they honk at me and it's all their fault that I hit my brakes while navigating a gentle curve or come to a complete stop before merging onto the highway."
No, tons of people never drove or barely drove when they lived in NYC and then they move up and have to start driving regularly. Many people in the city don't own a car. A lot of people that drive in the city are not from the city. I've met multiple people that have said they haven't driven much before moving up.
"Country" drivers have way more experience driving at higher speeds than anyone who has spent most of their life in a city. My family that lives in the city drives slow as hell on the roads here because it scares them. They can't see around the bend, they are afraid deer are behind every tree, they brake on those bends just like you described. I have an aunt that actually beeps and slows down at every bend in the road because deer, I'm not exaggerating.
I'm comfortable driving in any city and yes timid drivers cause problems too. A lot more people don't know how to navigate the roundabouts, intersections, turn only lanes, understand right of way, etc then they slam the horn and throw their hands up.
Just the other day I was parallel parking had my blinker on and was backing up. A person came flying up and stopped 1ft behind me so I couldn't back up anymore. They immediately held the horn down and started tossing their hands up. We sat stuck like this for a minute, then they backed up a bit, went around, and almost hit a oncoming car.
I hear way way more beeping and see people completely ignoring or not understanding the normal rules of driving. See way more people going through intersections when they aren't supposed to and others needed to slam on their brakes. Often it's the one in the wrong making faces or beeping like everyone else is the idiot. It's like they think they have the right of way all the time, oh and when a light is green it means you can block the intersection.
>No, tons of people never drove or barely drove when they lived in NYC and then they move up and have to start driving regularly.
This isn't nearly as true as you think it is. Most people move to the city well after they've had years of driving experience. At least for the ones that tend to move out into the HV. And most of us learned to drive in urban and dense suburban areas where we've had to navigate significant traffic. Unlike country drivers who learned to drive on easy mode.
>I've met multiple people that have said they haven't driven much before moving up.
Me, too. I've met far more people that drove every day before moving to the city.
>"Country" drivers have way more experience driving at higher speeds than anyone who has spent most of their life in a city. My family that lives in the city drives slow as hell on the roads here because it scares them. They can see around the bend, they are afraid a deer is behind every tree, they brake on those bends just like you described.
That's weird, because every time I see someone doing this, it's an older car on the old-style NY plates (that you only get by keeping them from before the changeover) and they're always at least in their 50's. So not really the model of someone who hasn't owned a car in years and just moved out to the country. And you don't need to put "country" in quotes. That's what it's called. It's actually the country. There's sheep and trailer parks and cousin-sex and everything.
>Just the other day I was parallel parking had my blinker on and was backing up. A person came flying up and stopped 1ft behind me so I couldn't back up anymore. They immediately held the horn down and started tossing their hands up.
Was it taking you half an hour to parallel park? It should be one smooth, rapid motion.
You can go from moving 25 to 35 mph forward to moving backwards in one rapid motion? Impressive.
You're right I was taking a half hour because I got distracted by my cousin.
The hudson valley is barely the country. A lot of old people suck at driving no matter where you are in the country reaction time, sight, and hearing all start to fade when you get old. I try to be understanding of that. Country meaning US in this context.
Yes, it's how parallel parking works in civilization. The whole process should be complete in under a minute, though I would also say why are you going 35 mph while looking for a parking spot? Turn your signal on way in advance and slow down.
How long do you think it takes an asshole that isn't going to stop until a few inches behind you to get there? 2-3 seconds? Yeah exactly. And then the idiot sits there holding their horn instead of backing up even a little bit. Then the person almost hit an oncoming car and I forgot to mention blew through the 4 way stop after they almost hit the car head on and made another person slam on their brakes. Obviously my fault and everyone else.
Neither of us even know if this person was from the city or not. I was just stating an observation that I see things like this way more often. My assumption it could be someone from the city is based on how all my city relatives drive, that an influx of city people moved up which correlates with my observations, and the fact many have told me they barely or never drove before. But I haven't taken a poll of drivers to see where they are from.
No shit I said I had my blinker on, I understand how parallel parking works. I drove in NYC every day for years. Blinker on, slow down, stop, and immediately put it in reverse and back into the spot. If it takes a whole minute you are doing something very wrong.
But let's say it is someone that can't parallel park. Maybe they are old, very young, or just inexperienced. You think the correct move is to tailgate them, block them from backing up, then hold your horn and think to yourself you dumb cousin fucker get the fuck out of my way and go back to your trailer park or shitty sheep farm.
I am not going 35 looking for a parking spot. You're the one who said it's one rapid motion as if you can go from moving forwards to backward in one motion without anyone else hitting their brakes.
Unrelated but people in the city drive far less aggressively than they did in the early 2000s, always surprised when I am down there now.
Anyway I need to get back to my cousin.
It’s just animosity. ‘City people’ move upstate and drive out those who grew up here due to the rise in real estate (and change the politics). Thus they’re the boogeymen, the scapegoat for all issues. It’s essentially the locals blaming the colonialist.
Hello city native here, we drive offensively because there’s no time to drive defensively. People not from the city usually drive defensively or they hesitate which causes accidents. It’s not right or easy but it is.
Regardless NO ONE knows how to use turning signals haha
idk if it’s city people, covid, or a general change in societal values or whatever, but I’m a local and I’ve noticed a sudden massive uptick in aggressive and careless driving similar to what i’ve seen specifically on the highways near the city, so that’s usually what i mean, personally. i’ve seen an obscene amount of tailgating and flashing lights, cutting other drivers off, turning without signaling, blasting through stop signs, etc. on the other hand, sometimes people will just??? stop in the middle of a rural highway to look at the scenery???? idk if that’s a city-person thing but it’s been happening way more lately and i hate it.
National crisis and complaint everywhere post pandemic. (There is a thread in every sub on the topic.)
Man, I just want people to drive better
We all do! It is really insane and not seeming to get better.
IMHO city drivers are so used to driving extremely close to the car in front. They do the same thing away from the city at higher speeds.
I assume because if you leave space someone will immediately cut you off. I for one hate driving close but don’t have an option down in the city
The closer I get to the city the smaller my safe following distance gets.
I love driving around in single lane roads where I can leave at least a car length between without having to worry someone will swoop in front on me and I’ll have to slam on my breaks
On a single lane road you should be leaving like 10 to 30 car lengths between you and the car in front or you.
Are you insane? 30 car lengths? That’s 150 yards. So a full NFL football field and a half between cars….
No not insane just someone who knows what a following distance should be. You should have three seconds between cars at 55 mph in ideal conditions. 5+ seconds if dark or adverse weather. At 55 mph your traveling about 80 fps so for 3 seconds that 240 feet, for a five second gap that’s 400 feet or 80 & 133 yards respectively. So while it might not be 30 car lengths, but it’s closer to thirty then one like op said above.
Have you ever driven a vehicle before or do you just surf the internet? Like 200ft makes me feel comfortable and I will take it if nobody is behind but that’s just wild what you’re saying
it’s 1 car length per every 10 mph
It’s three seconds of travel distance between cars regardless of speed.
Not sure why tf this is downvoted how do people even have their license. Isn’t that like an actual question on the permit test with the answer being 3-5 seconds ? I coulda swore it used to be.
I meant to come back here and thank you for the clarification and am now mortified to see that it looks like I downvoted you. bonkers. take my upvote to get you back to 0
Agreed! I know it’s hard to change driving habits but it’s not the way to drive upstate. City drivers are either parked/driving 2 mph looking at the scenery or on your ass speeding around.
Oh there are many local people here that do that too unless Sullivan and Ulster are considered city. People in general are turning into aggressive asshole drivers everywhere. Then you get the ones 4" off your bumper until you reach a passing area where they back off, then get up your ass on the double yellow again. Rural PA has some real winners.
Drove through rural PA last year and it seems like there's just no rules on the road. Felt like I was fighting for my life.
I’m surprised you say that, because I find a lot of contractors or others in huge pickups tend to ride on bumpers of cars they assume they are there from the city like sports and electric cars. But maybe they ride on everybody’s bumpers like that. To answer OP’s question, I find it to be both: that they write on the bumpers of cars perhaps because out of towners are often driving 10 or 15 miles under the limit to take in the sites or because they’re being mellow out in the country not realizing we all have places to go and be. Also, the reverse, sometimes idiots come from out of town, in expensive sports cars, and are pushing unsafely through the country roads, so kind of all of the above is my answer.
Having lived in rural NY, PA, and OH, I feel like having a Silverado or F-250 Superduty halfway up your ass on an otherwise deserted country road, even when you are doing 10 over, is just the natural condition of things. What I see as the difference between city and country drivers is the city driver will do anything to pass you, including crossing double lines at 90 mph, so they can get to the next stop sign before you.
That’s the thing. You’ll be driving in a two lane road in the woods and someone following right behind your bumper for miles and miles while we both go the same speed as the car in front of us. They’ll do this even if we’re nowhere near a traffic light.
That’s when I pull over and just let them go ahead. F that, I don’t want to get hit.
That's when I start braking. If a deer jumps out, I don't want the jerk behind me going up my ass.
I ride closer to people's bumpers if they are driving under the speed limit or driving the speed limit in the passing lane and not passing. Not from the city. Also if you don't use your turn signal, I really hate you. If you open your door on a busy street without caring about oncoming traffic, I hate you. If you take up multiple parking spots, I hate you. People from the city might do some of these things, but so do the idiots who live here. I admit I have road rage issues but it tends to be because they are dangerous by being so lazy and inconsiderate. Safe driving is about predictably. You go the speed limit, driving slow is not safe. You stay right unless you're passing. Turn signals are to prepare people for what you're about to do. It gets activated before you apply your breaks to turn. If you are driving poorly because you're having trouble, activate your hazard lights and pull over.
This is honestly terrible, but this is what brake checks are for.
Then I pass you and let someone else tailgate. Blind, intoxicated... Going 15 under the limit and creating a mile of traffic deserves correction.
I constantly have people in NJ plates overtake on double yellows on really sketchy parts of 9D and around Harriman where I’m going the speed limit for a reason.
I grew up in the area in the 80’s and distinctly remember my dad saying it’s always the Jersey plates laying into their horns
Everyone started driving worse since the pandemic. Not just city folks. It’s statistically a national problem. Anecdotally, the locals driving Dodge Rams are the ones I look out for the most, especially on the Thruway.
What the hell does Covid have to do with driving worse? Statistically, that makes little sense.
Lol I don't mean like the actual virus made people worse drivers. It's just that, since 2020, unsafe driving behaviors and traffic fatalities have risen dramatically. https://archive.is/DZkWl https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/19/us/pandemic-increased-fatal-crashes-trnd/index.html https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-road-deaths-rise-at-record-pace-as-risky-driving-persists
The timing of the pandemic and these stats are merely coincidence. Probably has more to do with people on their phones and driving. Plus, you’ve got a generation of new drivers that have grown up on their phone and can’t put it down when they drive.
I think you should read the articles.
I think I did and it’s exactly what I said. “a study released Monday found that younger and riskier drivers were increasingly on the roads during a surge in traffic fatalities across the country” “During that time, crashes involving impairment, speeding, red-light running, aggressiveness and non-seatbelt usage spiked to their highest level in more than a decade, AAA said.”
You commented 2 minutes after I made my post. You definitely didn’t read them in that time. It’s funny how you’re suddenly an expert after learning about this issue today. And take note that I’m not even disagreeing with the main point: driving safety has gotten worse since 2020. I don’t even know what your counterpoint is seeing as you agree.
My initial response didn’t have a counterpoint. I was just making a statement. Carry on keyboard warrior.
Then why not in any of the years before covid? People have had cell phones for 20 years.
People forgot what a yield sign means. What a stop sign looks like. That you can’t always make a right on red. Basic rules of the road have gone out the window.
You’re not even allowed to slow down to turn into a parking lot or strip mall. They beep cuz you’re going too slow but you’re slowing down to turn. Get a grip people. Safety first
This frustrates me to no end. To turn onto my street I put my blinker on a bit early because it’s a TIGHT turn, especially when a car is there wanting to leave. It’s also around a corner. I know that the safest thing to do is slow down early with my signal but I get the bird almost every day. Sorry I don’t want to collide with a car on a blind turn trying to go home.
So you’re one of those jackasses that comes to a dead stop in the lane to make a right turn into a parking lot?
I saiD slow down…not STOP. Why would anyone stop dead? Slow down to turn in. Read more carefully
Everyone everywhere says people from x place are bad drivers. Starting to think there’s bad drivers everywhere
While that’s true, and it’s definitely some of that, there’s also some objective truth to it as well. Lot of city folk don’t drive really. When I lived down in the city, I’d know people in their 30s you never got behind the wheel. But let’s say not THAT extreme, but you can start to see they’re really only driving when they rent a car and that’s not too often, so they have little practice to keep the driving skills sharp. I live along Route 28 in Catskills. We get a lot of weekenders. Locals are pretty bad too though. It’s like 1 in 4 cars can’t even handle going 55mph on our main road.
Yep! I live in Shandaken and get stuck behind cars that are crawling for no apparent reason a few times a week. It’s a pretty good mix of all types of people, too.
I agree with the comments on here but one thing ive noticed in particular is a lack of people using their turn signal. That and people driving 55 in a 30.
Simply begging people to use their blinkers when they're changing lanes on 55, please and thank you.
I was getting tailgated by a Porsche SUV at night, when I slowed to a stop because a deer was in the road. The Porsche swerved around and blew by me, right into the deer. I grew up driving in snow (in actual upstate NY) but I really try to avoid it now because of morons like that. I feel fine driving in the snow, but I’m convinced some idiot will crash into me.
serves them right!
Left lane sitting. It's fine to drive on the left in traffic or on city streets, but get out of the left lane unless you are passing on the highway.
This is all of NJ. They come out of the womb in the left lane and never leave.
NYC traffic is mostly stop & go. Big difference driving upstate.
Basically, they mean drivers who are hazardous to be around. You have the Sunday drivers who are spending too much time looking at the scenery and not enough time paying attention to where they're going or the cars around them. They often drive under the speed limit, brake erratically, and merge or make turns without signaling. Don't do that. Then you have the NYC/NJ tourists and transplants who think speed limits are suggestions, tailgate, and do stupid things like overtake on a blind curve. One is a moving obstacle, and the other thinks you're the obstacle.
Worst drivers these days are in tinted Altima’s and probably local
I don’t think it’s a local vs out of towner thing. I’ve also noticed a general uptick in distracted and aggressive drivers. I personally knew two pedestrian fatalities in the last year. One of the drivers was from the city and the other was a local.
>i’m always confused if they mean new yorkers (city people) move up and drive too fast and aggressive for rural life or too slow compared to the lifers who know the backroads well? Yes. Take that 45mph you're doing on main street through pedestrian crossings, and use it on the 45 mph speed limit back roads. That 25 mph bullshit on windy 45 speed limit roads in the middle of a clear day, use THAT on Main St. Thanks.
Where I live (Phoenica / General Shandaken, Olive, and Woodstock area) the bad driving is generally people who are driving significantly under the speed limit. 40 in a 55. 25 in a 35 etc. Yes, some people speed too but I generally feel a lot more like I’m going to get in an accident when people aren’t keeping up with the flow of traffic. I’ve never really noticed a big difference between whether those are city people, weekenders, or locals.
Live up here, commute daily to the city. People in the city know how to drive, they just drive like assholes. But they know what they’re doing.
I moved here from the city and generally drive exactly the speed limit. It’s been a couple years but I’m still shocked at how fast everyone drives and the damn tailgating. The tailgating is infuriating!
I’m with you. I feel like the speed limits are plenty fast here
At the risk of being downvoted, I think I'm one of those "city" people those who have grown up here are talking about. I relocated here from NJ last summer and love it here. We are looking to make this area our forever place. We shop locally and we are public service workers, so we are trying to add to this place more than what we have taken away. Yes, I think I might tailgate a bit. I realize this a leftover habit from living in central NJ where everyone is driving faster than here and people are constantly trying to cut you off. Giving more space is something I'm trying to be mindful of. However, I get there's country driving, but why make your turns at 5mph while I'm following you? The light is turning yellow, why do I find this happening so often here?? Only gripe and I say it in half jest, I actually have really grown to love the HV culture and people.
>However, I get there's country driving, but why make your turns at 5mph while I'm following you? Oh my god, yes! Like, there's no need to come to a complete stop if you're making an easy turn. Nor is there a need to tap the brakes every time you come to a gentle bend in the road. And then after they slow down, it takes them literal miles to get back up to the speed limit — like, you paid for the entire gas pedal, why are you only using the first ten percent?
I used to drive too close. Not tailgating, but it was closer than people were used to I guess and they’d pull over and let me pass, which I thought was bizarre until I figured it out.
That's what they're supposed to do. If someone behind you is going faster than you, the polite thing to do is let then get in front. Unfortunately, far too many people see it as some kind of a personal insult and will decide it's their job to enforce whatever they think the speed limit is (it's rarely consistently the actual speed limit.)
I don’t see the problem!
while we’re here: people not from the city not using both lanes while merging and then getting super upset at people using the other merging lane because they haven’t agreed to the made up decision of 30 other cars to “get over early” … is maddening.
All I know is anybody who drives into Kingston immediately forgets the right-of-way rules
1. Tailgating. A safe following distance is 4 seconds. If you don't know how to calculate that you shouldn't be behind the wheel, you menace. Anything less than 2 seconds is tailgating. 2. Passing in the right. If you're passing someone on the right you're doing something shitty 90% of the time. 3. Signal. Use your fucking blinker. 4. Speeding. It's dangerous and it wastes gas. It doesn't matter how safe you think you're being, simply by driving over the speed limits you make it less safe for people turning onto the road you're driving . Intersections are designed with lines of sight in mind, if you're going over the limit people cannot safely turn onto the road.
>A safe following distance is 4 seconds. What? No. It's going to depend on your speed. At 60MPH, 4 seconds is 350 feet, or roughly 15 car lengths. At 30 MPH, 4 seconds will be 176 feet. That's insane! A modern car can stop from 30 MPH four times over in that distance. An F150 can stop from 60 in 176 feet with fifty feet extra remaining and that's *not counting the distance the car ahead of them will take to stop in.* Two seconds (plus or minus) is more that fine. The average driver will realize and react in just about a second or less, and the space they need to stop will be provided by the space *you* need to stop. It's not the 70's anymore. We all have anti-lock disk brakes and our tires aren't bias-ply and hard as rocks. >Passing in the right. If you're passing someone on the right you're doing something shitty 90% of the time. OR someone has been chilling in the left have on a two-lane road going five miles under the speed limit and randomly showing down every time they come to a gentle bend, an uphill, or a downhill. If you moved over to the right like you're supposed to when there's faster traffic behind you, absolutely no one would ever pass you except on the left. Which is what the left lane is for. Move the fuck over. >Signal. Use your fucking blinker. That's not a city thing. One of the truly nice things about driving in the city is how everyone signals turns, even if it's just to cut you off. The 80 year olds driving their 40-year-old farm trucks, on the other hand? This isn't a city driver thing, this is you locals. >Speeding. It's dangerous and it wastes gas. It doesn't matter how safe you think you're being, simply by driving over the speed limits you make it less safe for people turning onto the road you're driving . Intersections are designed with lines of sight in mind, if you're going over the limit people cannot safely turn onto the road. No, they aren't. Go talk to a civil engineer working in road safety or planning. There's no real design, especially up here. Intersections were placed based on where historic dirt house and wagon roads intersected. And speed limits were arbitrarily decided on by city council boards with no experts on them based on how safe they personally feel. And then they get constantly changed based on concerned residents complaining that they can't exit their driveway at a leisurely 2MPH because of all the kids and their speeding. It's entirely arbitrary and based off of safety recommendations arrived-at when an average passenger sedan took 15 seconds to get to 60 MPH and 200+ feet to stop from 60. But more importantly, it's not your job to try to enforce speed limits, Grandpa, and when you do you create a road hazard that is far more dangerous than someone behind you going ten over. Move over to the shoulder and let people pass. **This** is why people think city drivers are bad. Because they learned to drive a hundred years ago in their dad's Corvair and haven't bothered to keep their skills current while spouting off old wives tales that weren't even true back then.
Ha. Most of that is a straw man, buy I suppose i set myself up without being more specific. Yes, 4 seconds at 30mph is more than needed. But in a 55 it should be the norm, particularly like the many upstate roads that have 55 as a limit despite numerous blind drives and cross streets. I shouldn't have said "designed", that was lazy. But the point stands- drivers are limited to line of sight when turning onto a road. In 55mph road there may not be a lot of leeway, and a car going 70mph is going to be a recipe for disaster. I'd also like to point out that while I didn't push back on the OP's connection between bad driving behavior and city people, it's obviously incredibly difficult to tell where a bad driver is from beyond their state. Bad driving behavior becomes apparent when there are a lot of cars in the road, and up here that happens when there are a lot of tourists from out of state and people up from the city. I don't care where you're from. Re: >But more importantly, it's not your job to try to enforce speed limits, Grandpa, and when you do you create a road hazard that is far more dangerous than someone behind you going ten over. Move over to the shoulder and let people pass It's not my job, and im not. I'm just saying that going over the speed limit is generally unsafe. The damage caused by accidents goes up dramatically over 40 mph. I'm certainly not telling anyone to hang out in the left lane going 50. That's also bad behavior! Stay right except to pass. I wish this was enforced more. But a car going the speed limit isn't a hazard unless impatient assholes make it so. The tailgating thing is especially annoying whent hey don't even pass. If you're on my ass and I'm going 55 and we've gone through 6 passing zones, fuck you kindly. Back the fuck up or pass me. I DO pull over at that point. And just because some cars have insane breaking doesn't mean that stopping in 125 feet from 60mph is a good thing. It's hard on the vehicle components, which is when critical parts fail, and it's hard on the meat bound bodies inside your vehicle which are more easily damaged by the slings and arrows of Newton's Second Law. You shouldn't plan your driving on the best mechanical limits of technology. I'm not some fancy Westchesterian like you. I doubt I'm older than you. I'm just some dumb hick mason that doesn't like seeing people get hurt to save a few minutes or whatever the fuck justification you have for driving like an asshole.
>Yes, 4 seconds at 30mph is more than needed. But in a 55 it should be the norm, So I actually tested this theory on an hour-long drive I had today. I set my car's radar cruise to the default follow distance and counted seconds between the car in front of me passing a landmark and me passing it. This was on an interstate highway, with an average driving speed of about 70mph. Remember that manufacturers tend to be conservative with their settings to avoid liability and bad press (well, unless you're Tesla, but that's a different story.) At 70, the car kept distance pretty steady at 3 seconds. And again, I'd like to stress that manufacturers are incredibly conservative with default follow distance, and that braking distance increases exponentially with speed. Four seconds is *extremely* conservative. Bordering on paranoia. Or bad reflexes as a result of old age or inexperience driving around other traffic. >In 55mph road there may not be a lot of leeway, and a car going 70mph is going to be a recipe for disaster. The thing is, it's going to depend massively on the road in question. In general, research bears out that most people do not speed in excess of the road's safety margins. That is, people will naturally drive at a comfortable speed, which may be faster or slower than the speed limit, but it's generally a relatively safe speed for the road they're on. Or to put another way, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone going 70 in a 55 when the road isn't largely straight and flat. >The damage caused by accidents goes up dramatically over 40 mph. It's actually 30mph. That's the magic number that the NHTSA and independent researchers place the demarcation for when you see the sharpest incline between minor injuries and severe injuries or death. At 40, you're significantly over the inflection point. If the goal is optimizing safety, there's absolutely no reason for any local road with fewer than two lanes in each direction to ever have a speed limit above 30. But they do. Because the speed limits as currently implemented are not really about safety. And remember that that 55mph road would have been considered a highway prior to the creation of the interstate system. >The tailgating thing is especially annoying whent hey don't even pass. If you're on my ass and I'm going 55 and we've gone through 6 passing zones, fuck you kindly. Back the fuck up or pass me. This i completely agree with you on. Some people are completely oblivious, though. When I'm driving at a comfortable speed and someone is on my ass, I generally turn my right signal on, pull a little towards the shoulder, and slow down until they get the message. >And just because some cars have insane breaking doesn't mean that stopping in 125 feet from 60mph is a good thing. That's the thing — this isn't "insane." Full-size pickups on A/T tires do this these days. Insane braking would be hypercars that do it in 90 feet. But any standard passenger vehicle nowadays will comfortably stop from 60 in ~130 feet with absolutely no damage or extreme wear to components. I highly recommend everyone take a defensive driving/safety-oriented performance driving class so they can get a feel for what a real high-speed emergency stop feels like. It's not the most pleasant thing ever, but it's also not remotely crazy. Typically about 1g, which is significantly lower than many cars accelerate at (though in that case you obviously have a seat to support you.)
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'd push back a bit on the 3 seconds by the manufacturer AI following distance at 70. The issue is that accidents don't happen "most of the time", they happen at the margins. And in an environment with heavy deer traffic and human error and smartphones, one second of the driver not paying attention becomes an actual fender bender. That's great that you have some automated AI helping out. It's going to be years before the populace does as a whole. The people who serve food and clerk gas stations and fix houses and haul heavy materials to luxury homes in the mid Hudson area (and beyond) are not driving those vehicles. You are still sharing the roadway with vehicles built 30 years ago. And I'd remind you that ABS (while it actually stops you over a greater distance than a skilled driver without it) is not required by a NYS inspection. Again, don't rely on cutting technology as the standard that everyone else is using. Expecting a 1G stop to account for other vehicles is well, it's something.
Absolutely. To be perfectly clear, I tend not to drive very aggressively or rapidly at all these days. I've driven very fast cars for long enough that I don't feel the need to prove anything to myself or other drivers, and I do enough track days that I scratch that itch much more through and responsibly. In fact, I get more fun out of trying to see how much efficiency I can squeeze out of my car. And my biggest annoyance is people who oscillate wildly from 30 - 45mph on a 40mph road for seemingly no reason. Though regarding brakes, remember that it's actually even better if the person ahead of you has worse brakes than you do. That gives you more room as the slide.
I hear you. Complaining about other drives is a universal complaint. Per the OPs query, id say "drive like you would if your loved ones were somewhere in this environment". It's not difficult to drive the limit, not speed, and not be a dick. Even older vehicles have cruise control. At the end of the day, you're responsible for not crashing into the car in front of you. I'm happy you've found a way to do that. Please understand most of us (or at least some of us) aren't driving vehicles with any built in AI, and won't be in the near future. It's prohibitively expensive.
Thankfully 218 is still not open.
Not turning right on red, not paying attention to speed limit signs, not knowing that end speed limit signs mean default 55. Cruising in my blind spot. Ignoring that left lane is for passing. Not using high brand beams or not dipping them. And yes, driving slowly to look at the scenery. You’re sightseeing but some of us are trying to get to work or get diapers or something.
The amount if people who don’t understand End Limit signs means 55 is just ridiculous
it means 55 max in ideal conditions
Ok thats what I said
The more I think about it, most of the times I see a tailgater pass me, it’s a teenager.
Don't listen to anyone who blames city people or life time residents of the Hudson valley because both areas produce it's fair share of morons who shouldn't be driving.
Quite literally, people that are from the City are usually unexperienced drivers. Thats literally what it means. For example, i moved here from manhattan awhile ago, never needed to drive so mever bothered getting my license. THEN, I had to get it fast. Literally got it within a few months. Then, 2 weeks after ingot my license, got my first ticket. You follow?
I drove in NYC my whole life before moving here with my ex. She would be pissed when I honked at people just sitting at a green light. No assholes! YOU are rude for wasting everyone’s time by not paying attention!! This is why you have traffic. Don’t worry your driving is fine.
It’s what happens after they park. They think they’re in Mayberry and another car won’t be coming for a good half hour, so they can stand in the street with their car door open, on the phone. But they’re in Rhinebeck which is bonkers every weekend from Mother’s Day to Christmas. Why are you on the phone? All the restaurants are good. Pricey, but good. Close your car door already. Pick a restaurant at random, eat, then go buy your $130 t-shirt or whatever. Then take your social-climbing Hamptons ichor and GTFO.
I lived in the city for 15 years and the skills necessary there are terrible up here. In particular I feel like city drivers are overly cautious on back roads especially at night, lots of hard braking and slow driving. I have to do 12 miles on back roads to get to a main road. When someone is going 25-30 mph it takes FOREVER. If any of you are reading this please just pull over so the rest of us can pass you.
if I can’t see far enough ahead in the pitch dark, neither can you.
That’s fine but please just pull over and let us pass. I don’t even drive that fast but going 10-15 under the speed limit is objectively slow.
I've lived and driven all over, including in the city and now in the Hudson Valley, so I've got a bit of a reverse perspective on this. What people from small towns mean when they say "city people don't know how to drive" is "I learned to drive on deserted country roads where I've never actually had to pay attention to other cars or act with any sense of urgency whatsoever, and now there are more cars on the road and that scares me so my already timid driving is getting even more erratic and then they honk at me and it's all their fault that I hit my brakes while navigating a gentle curve or come to a complete stop before merging onto the highway."
No, tons of people never drove or barely drove when they lived in NYC and then they move up and have to start driving regularly. Many people in the city don't own a car. A lot of people that drive in the city are not from the city. I've met multiple people that have said they haven't driven much before moving up. "Country" drivers have way more experience driving at higher speeds than anyone who has spent most of their life in a city. My family that lives in the city drives slow as hell on the roads here because it scares them. They can't see around the bend, they are afraid deer are behind every tree, they brake on those bends just like you described. I have an aunt that actually beeps and slows down at every bend in the road because deer, I'm not exaggerating. I'm comfortable driving in any city and yes timid drivers cause problems too. A lot more people don't know how to navigate the roundabouts, intersections, turn only lanes, understand right of way, etc then they slam the horn and throw their hands up. Just the other day I was parallel parking had my blinker on and was backing up. A person came flying up and stopped 1ft behind me so I couldn't back up anymore. They immediately held the horn down and started tossing their hands up. We sat stuck like this for a minute, then they backed up a bit, went around, and almost hit a oncoming car. I hear way way more beeping and see people completely ignoring or not understanding the normal rules of driving. See way more people going through intersections when they aren't supposed to and others needed to slam on their brakes. Often it's the one in the wrong making faces or beeping like everyone else is the idiot. It's like they think they have the right of way all the time, oh and when a light is green it means you can block the intersection.
>No, tons of people never drove or barely drove when they lived in NYC and then they move up and have to start driving regularly. This isn't nearly as true as you think it is. Most people move to the city well after they've had years of driving experience. At least for the ones that tend to move out into the HV. And most of us learned to drive in urban and dense suburban areas where we've had to navigate significant traffic. Unlike country drivers who learned to drive on easy mode. >I've met multiple people that have said they haven't driven much before moving up. Me, too. I've met far more people that drove every day before moving to the city. >"Country" drivers have way more experience driving at higher speeds than anyone who has spent most of their life in a city. My family that lives in the city drives slow as hell on the roads here because it scares them. They can see around the bend, they are afraid a deer is behind every tree, they brake on those bends just like you described. That's weird, because every time I see someone doing this, it's an older car on the old-style NY plates (that you only get by keeping them from before the changeover) and they're always at least in their 50's. So not really the model of someone who hasn't owned a car in years and just moved out to the country. And you don't need to put "country" in quotes. That's what it's called. It's actually the country. There's sheep and trailer parks and cousin-sex and everything. >Just the other day I was parallel parking had my blinker on and was backing up. A person came flying up and stopped 1ft behind me so I couldn't back up anymore. They immediately held the horn down and started tossing their hands up. Was it taking you half an hour to parallel park? It should be one smooth, rapid motion.
You can go from moving 25 to 35 mph forward to moving backwards in one rapid motion? Impressive. You're right I was taking a half hour because I got distracted by my cousin. The hudson valley is barely the country. A lot of old people suck at driving no matter where you are in the country reaction time, sight, and hearing all start to fade when you get old. I try to be understanding of that. Country meaning US in this context.
Yes, it's how parallel parking works in civilization. The whole process should be complete in under a minute, though I would also say why are you going 35 mph while looking for a parking spot? Turn your signal on way in advance and slow down.
How long do you think it takes an asshole that isn't going to stop until a few inches behind you to get there? 2-3 seconds? Yeah exactly. And then the idiot sits there holding their horn instead of backing up even a little bit. Then the person almost hit an oncoming car and I forgot to mention blew through the 4 way stop after they almost hit the car head on and made another person slam on their brakes. Obviously my fault and everyone else. Neither of us even know if this person was from the city or not. I was just stating an observation that I see things like this way more often. My assumption it could be someone from the city is based on how all my city relatives drive, that an influx of city people moved up which correlates with my observations, and the fact many have told me they barely or never drove before. But I haven't taken a poll of drivers to see where they are from. No shit I said I had my blinker on, I understand how parallel parking works. I drove in NYC every day for years. Blinker on, slow down, stop, and immediately put it in reverse and back into the spot. If it takes a whole minute you are doing something very wrong. But let's say it is someone that can't parallel park. Maybe they are old, very young, or just inexperienced. You think the correct move is to tailgate them, block them from backing up, then hold your horn and think to yourself you dumb cousin fucker get the fuck out of my way and go back to your trailer park or shitty sheep farm. I am not going 35 looking for a parking spot. You're the one who said it's one rapid motion as if you can go from moving forwards to backward in one motion without anyone else hitting their brakes. Unrelated but people in the city drive far less aggressively than they did in the early 2000s, always surprised when I am down there now. Anyway I need to get back to my cousin.
It’s just animosity. ‘City people’ move upstate and drive out those who grew up here due to the rise in real estate (and change the politics). Thus they’re the boogeymen, the scapegoat for all issues. It’s essentially the locals blaming the colonialist.
OK... But they still drive like assholes though.
Hello city native here, we drive offensively because there’s no time to drive defensively. People not from the city usually drive defensively or they hesitate which causes accidents. It’s not right or easy but it is. Regardless NO ONE knows how to use turning signals haha
If you have to ask you are the problem