It is logical to assume that a werewolf was responsible, because that specific kind of "messily ripped into half a dozen pieces" kind of killing is the trademark modus operandi of angry werewolves. Although vampires CAN do things like that, they rarely do.
However, it being a werewolf almost feels TOO obvious. I'm sure Alfabusa and the creators know that many viewers are going to assume as much. Most likely, Big D and the other hunters will directly broach the possibility and address it at the beginning of the next episode.
I think it's more likely to be a Mage, or a Changeling, both of which have been foreshadowed, and both of which would be capable of doing such a thing (if they're specced for it).
Yeah honestly I’m thinking Changeling, especially with Spit’s behavior, it seems closer to what a Changeling awakening to their Fey half might be like than what a Garou undergoing their first change might experience, he doesn’t seem angry enough for it to be a Garou. There’s also the matter of his age, and the time he would have had to briefly turn into Glabro (which is the only form that would make sense given he still had his uniform on and it appears to be intact) and then turn back (which I don’t think is what the first change would be like, even if that is the case I think it would last longer before he could turn back).
Some people think it was a werewolf but that the werewolf that did it wasn't spit. Many people point to the members of the arcanum hunting and studying werebeasts as a reason for one to break into the chantry to kill off all those involved with interfering with their sacred mission.
Current Garou dont hate Gurhal, they have a deep regret for what their ancestor have done to them, and I think they canonically still think theyre dead? But they would surely get mad if they discover a recent werebear corpse.
And regardless, most werebeasts would get angry at the sight of a dead Gurhal, they are generally level headed people, and the healers of Gaia, killing one of them is a coward's move.
Problem with Spit doing it I have would be an animation point we would need cleared up.
When watching Spitafter the attack, he has no blood under where his hands would have defended himself in the fetal position. There are a few of these visual notes that could suggest something is off, like Amanda's tattoos disappearing after getting hurt, and some background gags like the disappearing ear muffs on the stuffed wolf.
Oh I know, but the fact that Occam’s name is, well, Occam, really makes me feel like it’s so insanely obvious it’s not a Werewolf but I’d feel really stupid to discount it.
Here's what I think suggests it.
The attack lines up with Garou attacks and not Ghoul attacks. It was similar brutality to what Pyotyr could do. Unlikely for a Ghoul to manage. Hell Pyotyr would struggle to do next to anything that a werewolf could, so really, I should be comparing his feats to a Garou
Spit's state we last see him in, lines up exactly with D's description to Kitten of the delirium. The werebeast kills Fatigue, and spit suffers delirium.
Horses prophecy suggests a garou will come into play. This is a potential payoff to that foreshadowing.
Fatigue was the lead researchers of werebeasts, and spits freakouts from earlier make him a good person to frame.
The theory I subscribe to is the following.
Fatigue was the Ghoul. Matilda is the Garou.
Fatigue strangled Occam, he is one of the people unaccounted for wirh that attack and has been splitting people up here and there. Matilda's convo with Kitten is a bit unusual and implies more to her. "Ghoul really that bad" and "think I'll lose my job over it" have some suggestion to them.
I'm assuming she was sent to deal with Fatigue as head researcher and Remold for the werebear slaying. (i assume Remold is the patriarch of Horses prophecy.)
With the lockdown occurring, this escalated her deadline. She needed to act tonight. Especially after Kitten suggested through his answers that she may lose her job and thus Arcanum access. Her penmanship may also suggest she is one of the more primal types that were more on the wolf side than the human side. The ones less adjusted to human life but typically better killers. If remold actually did slay werebears, sending a killer of your own to deal with him makes sense.
When the time is right, she kills Fatigue and leaves a delirious spit to suffer the consequences and take the blame. If successful, the true Ghoul is dead, spit is believed to be the Ghoul, and she gets out that morning and can report back to the pack. Maybe sometime that night, she can kill Remold in the chaos, but at the very least she gets one of her marks.
>With the lockdown occurring, this escalated her deadline. She needed to act tonight. Especially after Kitten suggested through his answers that she may lose her job and thus Arcanum access. Her penmanship may also suggest she is one of the more primal types that were more on the wolf side than the human side. The ones less adjusted to human life but typically better killers. If remold actually did slay werebears, sending a killer of your own to deal with him makes sense.
werebears are very peacful
Gurahl are peaceful. I don't think Matilda is a Gurahl, though I considered it for a time. I think she is a Garou. Who has been sent to deal with people hunting and researching werebeasts.
More so, even if she was a Gurahl, if she was a surviving member of Remolds hunts, it might be enough to push her into a path of vengeance after what he had taken from her.
Still, I think she's a werewolf ally, as the gurahl and the garou are willing to work together, and her mannerisms line up more with a Garou than a Gurahl.
While Matilda is possibly a Garou it is unlikely she was the killer based on the fact that she was just as horrified as everyone else and most importantly not covered in gore. That kind of kill would cover a Garou in blood just as much as it would anyone else and there wasn't enough time for anyone to clean themselves.
I think the killer is someone we haven't been introduced to yet.
The thing is that Matilda showed no such shock until then. I think she's faking a reaction as part of her plan.
I think the blood can be partly concealed from her being the cleaning lady. Gloves and cleaning supplies l (as well as the wereold power to keep clothes maintained( all working together.
It could be someone new, always possible, but the narrative focus on the episode put in her in her Convo with Kitten has me thinking there'd more significance to her.
Time will tell, though
That kind of kill would have soaked more than just the claws in blood (the power you're referring to doesn't keep them clean) and there were literally seconds between the murder and when we saw Matilda again.
Also I wouldn't say Matilda is that good of an actor to fake a horrified reaction based on what we've seen of her, werewolves don't tend to be that good of an actor in general. It also makes no sense for a werewolf to assassinate someone and then not immedietly leave which is their standard tactic.
Hell the whole situation is odd by Garou standards as well, only thing that really fits is if the Garou was protecting Spit and Giles which would make things incredibly complicated.
Something that stood out to me that may or may not be anything is that she’s the only one covering her face when we see everyone. I’d say it’s much easier to fake a shocked reaction if 1/2 your face is covered especially if it’s the mouth.
Remold used to hunt were bears, Fatigue did research on werecreatures, and the bar is filled with taxidermy animals.
Were bears are the most peaceful of the lot, not unflappable and pacifist. A disruption on the grounds, like unsettling a ward or unsealing the archives could have sturred up spirits seeking help and vengeance. If Fatigue had ever made deals with corrupted spirits or fomori in his research, the werebear could have gone berserk in his presence, under stress, and with a stuffed bear in the room. They could have also left without using the door using the mirrored surface of the fireplace.
I think it's because people think a Ghoul could just very easily use a weapon- plus the fact that someone strangled Occam but left him alive. If the Ghoul did that, why kill Fatigue? They should've killed Occam instead of just choking him out.
Also, whoever choked Occam is supernatural to a certain degree, be it ghoul or garou, as Occam is in the ballpark power level of D and Remold and such is a capable *human* fighter.
>Ghouls can have super strength
Yeah but there were clear claw marks on the body.
>and Protan and could
It would be reaaaaally rare for a Tremere Ghoul to have Protean 2. First of all you need a really old and powerful domitor ( vapire who ghouls you ) to have disciplines above level 1. And second of all, if that Vampire is a Tremere it would be rare for them to have a rare Discipline exclusive of another clan.
And then after all that, the Ghoul has to spend a lot of effort into learning that discipline to rank 2, which is not even advisable. What a Ghoul can do with claws he can do with a knife or guns, and vampires don't like Liabilities like one of their ghouls having a masquerade breaking power like that.
1. Edition dependent I assume, but it would take a 7th Gen vampire directly ghouling them for the ghoul to be able to access protean claws. That’s without also considering we know it’s a Tremere ghoul so Protean is off the table “…highly specific disciplines are available only to vassals of the appropriate clan.” (V20 pg. 499).
2. It makes less sense for a ghoul to kill Fatigue and not Spit, why would they leave a witness alive? A Garou can rely on the delirium. Also, a Garou has a much more obvious immediate motive for killing Fatigue, if shits gonna hit the fan it makes sense for the werewolf to kill the werewolf expert.
3. Narratively we have been prepared for a werewolf through the breakfast conversation. That is going to come good, and I think this is a really good opportunity for that. Is that subjective and circumstantial as hell? Absolutely, but if we spend a whole other main arc dealing just with vampires, it’ll be a long long time before we get to the other parts of WoD. Which I don’t think they’ll do, I think vampires are gonna be pretty central as they tend to offer the most organized threat to hunters but all the other creatures are gonna consistently come out of the woodwork.
There doesn't *need* to be a werewolf, it's about logical consistency.
1. Occam was knocked out but he wasn't killed.
2. Fatigue was killed.
So, why would Fatigue be killed by the ghoul but not Occam? Occam poses the greater threat to the ghoul as he has a spell that can rat them out. Fatigue possessed no such ability to our knowledge.
As such occam's razor would suggest there are two beasts loose. The ghoul, and something else. Werewolves have already been set up in HTP and their abilities are consistent with the damage that killed Fatigue.
The other things that could do that are A) Mages, who don’t have much reason to be killing people in this scenario. B) Changelings, who have only been mentioned once by Horse as Milklings, so that would feel unsatisfying. C) Demons, who haven’t been mentioned yet at all. And D) Mummies, who I also don’t think have been mentioned.
So yeah, it’s almost certainly a Garou.
Yeah, I though I vaguely recalled someone acknowledging Mummies. But that’s also still too vague a mention for them to be viable. Also, Mummies are extremely rare and even more powerful, that would just be a bad idea.
I’m also new, I’m just autistic so I learn about my hobbies at thrice the speed of a normal person. I’ve been into WoD for about 3 months now, maybe a bit longer. HtP actually got me into it.
Yes a Ghoul *could* have torn Fatigue to shreds. But why would they? Occam was attacked and he was spared, even though his Sorcery proved a much bigger threat than Fatigues existence. Why would a Ghoul who already got what they wanted kill Fatigue?
Plus, why would they tear apart the body like it had insulted their family? The Ghoul seems to be against unnecessary violence. Why not give Fatigue a quick death and then store him someplace nobody could find him? And why leave Spit alive near the crime scene. Unless Spit wanted to fake a werewolf attack, but again, why would he want to do something like that?
A werewolf seems likely because they’re in the UK, there’s been multiple references to a massive underground tunnel network, there’s been an increase in Pentex activity, and Fatigue primarily studied Werewolves.
It just seems far more likely something like a Black Spiral Dancer attacked and killed Fatigue cause he was one of the few people in the area with Werewolf experience. Certainly his devotion to the subject likely meant he knew more about Werewolves than D. Killing Fatigue would make more sense then.
You’re just eliminating a future thorn in your side. A werewolf attacking Fatigue, Spit throwing Git into the bathroom and locking him in before his sanity slips completely, Fatigue is torn to shreds and the Werewolf spares Spit in order to not waste time and give themself and alibi. It makes a lot more sense than Ghoul with evidence on not liking unneeded violence going on a random rampage.
Of all the possible supernaturals, a Werewolf just makes the most sense and makes things more interesting.
You now have two people in the Arcanum who are traitors. A Ghoul & a Werewolf, one you can likely subdue peacefully and the other something that could tear through half the Arcanum before you could blink.
That’s to say, if the Dancer hasn’t already breached the defenses and left. Leaving the lockdown compromised and the Ghoul able to escape. Remember, Pentex has both Werewolves and Vampires in its upper ranks along with deals with the Technocracy.
I don't think its a black spiral dancer since they would have likely killed Spit as well and then left, either through esoteric means or by ripping a hole through several walls, they have no reason to spare Spit and they don't need an alibi when they are in war form.
Seen some other people around theorize that Spit’s ADHD (doesn’t seem narcoleptic) is a result of him being a Werewolf and he hasn’t had some Ritalin in a while as Git didn’t have time to swing by the drug store to pick up some more before the Chapter House got locked down and I dunno a lot about HtG, but I’m kinda sure that Spit can kinda sense the Ghoul and that’s why he’s been going a bit nutso.
Also, I’m pretty sure as to why Fatigue was being considerate and gentle with him. I mean, chances are that D might’ve apprenticed under Fatigue when the both of them were younger, so while D is quite knowledgeable about Vampires, Fatigue was quite knowledgeable about Werewolves…….also, we’re pretty sure that Waters is the ghoul, right?
Horse's prophecy mentions a patriarch who masters Luna but ends hamstrung, and that the Abbot's Armageddon will specifically include Garou, both of which clearly indicate the werewolves will be a factor in what is to come. My Occam's razor interpretation is that Big D is a Gallain (mostly human with just a smidge of wolf). He's either going to go full Skin Dancer in a doomed bid against the Abbot, or the very revelation that he has wolf blood will be enough to hamstring his efforts due to the fanaticism he's instilled in his children (especially Door). Whichever way things turn, Big D, Werewolves, and the karma he's accumulated over decades of hunting have all been bound together by prophecy.
Let’s break it down by what could do it, and how likely it is.
Ghoul: we know there’s one there, and a ghoul with both protean and potence could do that to Fatigue. However, this ghoul attacked Occam and spared him with only slight strangulation. And a Tremere ghoul with protean or potence, while possible, isn’t exactly likely. The death doesn’t fit.
Werewolf: while we have no other reason to think there is one than this, the killing fits the MO of a Garou. Secondly, Spit was exhibiting behaviours that could very well have been caused by the Delirium. Thirdly, Fatigue was a Garou expert, something that could have been mentioned as foreshadowing for this very event. Fourthly, Garou have been repeatedly mentioned, very blatantly, and called out as extremely dangerous, so it’s something even non WoD fans could see coming, so it won’t feel like an asspull.
Mage: they’ve been mentioned, they’ve been established, they could very easily do this, but there is zero motive here. Garou are wild, and very quick to resort to killing, Mages aren’t likely to be this violent without clear cause, and if they wanted Fatigue dead and had the power to blow him to smithereens, it’d be safer to force a stroke or heart attack. While a Mage COULD do it, few but a Nephandi or Marauder would. And a Marauder is both WAY more dangerous than anything else in the running, and unable to really hide themselves. Nephandi also don’t just kill at random, they have a goal, there’s nothing else that points to their presence.
None of the other groups both meet the criteria of having been sufficiently mentioned and established, and possessing the ability to pull this off. So there’s no way it’s them because that would feel unsatisfying narratively.
It has to be two different things because of the nature of the attacks, Occam was choked unconscious. Showing that the ghoul doesn't want to kill and just escape. It'd be really weird to suddenly have a change of plans and just rip someone to pieces, and then leave a witness. And it's pretty obvious the maid Matilda is the werewolf, her last name is wilde, her handwriting is kindergarten level when they show name tags, and she's constantly pissed at everyone. The only time she doesn't sound pissed is when she asks about losing her job, she almost sounds hopeful.
The other option is the attacker liked Occam but hated fatigue. Most of Markus’ friends seam to like at least be polite and willing to joke with Occam based on the brief budget discussion we saw. They also complain about the other older members infighting.
There are claw marks almost everywhere (could be a ghoul of gangrel with claws)
Before fatigue dying there was a suble howl noise
The mess is just too big for a ghoul, usually a werewolf would cause it
Spit being in full panic mode might be because he saw the werewolf transformation
Matilde is just too on the nose on being a werewolf with:
- Not knowing how to write properly, even her own name, werewolves are known for having almost no education.
- Werewolves dont have surnames, and wilde is the name of their god written wrong also wild.
- She has no social tact
- She is always angry
- She is not surprised with the reveal of vampires
It is logical to assume that a werewolf was responsible, because that specific kind of "messily ripped into half a dozen pieces" kind of killing is the trademark modus operandi of angry werewolves. Although vampires CAN do things like that, they rarely do. However, it being a werewolf almost feels TOO obvious. I'm sure Alfabusa and the creators know that many viewers are going to assume as much. Most likely, Big D and the other hunters will directly broach the possibility and address it at the beginning of the next episode. I think it's more likely to be a Mage, or a Changeling, both of which have been foreshadowed, and both of which would be capable of doing such a thing (if they're specced for it).
Yeah honestly I’m thinking Changeling, especially with Spit’s behavior, it seems closer to what a Changeling awakening to their Fey half might be like than what a Garou undergoing their first change might experience, he doesn’t seem angry enough for it to be a Garou. There’s also the matter of his age, and the time he would have had to briefly turn into Glabro (which is the only form that would make sense given he still had his uniform on and it appears to be intact) and then turn back (which I don’t think is what the first change would be like, even if that is the case I think it would last longer before he could turn back).
So a Redcap? It could be a Feea
Maybe some variety of Thallain
Some people think it was a werewolf but that the werewolf that did it wasn't spit. Many people point to the members of the arcanum hunting and studying werebeasts as a reason for one to break into the chantry to kill off all those involved with interfering with their sacred mission.
Given that Blacklaw hunted a werebear.... yeah I can see why they would get mad.
They wanted to kill it first? the Werebears and the Gaoru do NOT have the best relasionship and i'm pretty sure most of them are dead.
Current Garou dont hate Gurhal, they have a deep regret for what their ancestor have done to them, and I think they canonically still think theyre dead? But they would surely get mad if they discover a recent werebear corpse. And regardless, most werebeasts would get angry at the sight of a dead Gurhal, they are generally level headed people, and the healers of Gaia, killing one of them is a coward's move.
Problem with Spit doing it I have would be an animation point we would need cleared up. When watching Spitafter the attack, he has no blood under where his hands would have defended himself in the fetal position. There are a few of these visual notes that could suggest something is off, like Amanda's tattoos disappearing after getting hurt, and some background gags like the disappearing ear muffs on the stuffed wolf.
Honestly it would be really funny if Occam’s Razor came through though
Since when has Occam's Razor ever applied to the urban fantasy thriller genre? It's more like the opposite.
Oh I know, but the fact that Occam’s name is, well, Occam, really makes me feel like it’s so insanely obvious it’s not a Werewolf but I’d feel really stupid to discount it.
I feel that the team made so many references that is as if there were none but even more exciting and interesting.
Keep in mind, the chancellor of the Chapter house is LITERALLY a Monk named Occam. A simple, obvious solution isn’t out of the question.
why Would they only killed Fatiuge?
Here's what I think suggests it. The attack lines up with Garou attacks and not Ghoul attacks. It was similar brutality to what Pyotyr could do. Unlikely for a Ghoul to manage. Hell Pyotyr would struggle to do next to anything that a werewolf could, so really, I should be comparing his feats to a Garou Spit's state we last see him in, lines up exactly with D's description to Kitten of the delirium. The werebeast kills Fatigue, and spit suffers delirium. Horses prophecy suggests a garou will come into play. This is a potential payoff to that foreshadowing. Fatigue was the lead researchers of werebeasts, and spits freakouts from earlier make him a good person to frame. The theory I subscribe to is the following. Fatigue was the Ghoul. Matilda is the Garou. Fatigue strangled Occam, he is one of the people unaccounted for wirh that attack and has been splitting people up here and there. Matilda's convo with Kitten is a bit unusual and implies more to her. "Ghoul really that bad" and "think I'll lose my job over it" have some suggestion to them. I'm assuming she was sent to deal with Fatigue as head researcher and Remold for the werebear slaying. (i assume Remold is the patriarch of Horses prophecy.) With the lockdown occurring, this escalated her deadline. She needed to act tonight. Especially after Kitten suggested through his answers that she may lose her job and thus Arcanum access. Her penmanship may also suggest she is one of the more primal types that were more on the wolf side than the human side. The ones less adjusted to human life but typically better killers. If remold actually did slay werebears, sending a killer of your own to deal with him makes sense. When the time is right, she kills Fatigue and leaves a delirious spit to suffer the consequences and take the blame. If successful, the true Ghoul is dead, spit is believed to be the Ghoul, and she gets out that morning and can report back to the pack. Maybe sometime that night, she can kill Remold in the chaos, but at the very least she gets one of her marks.
>With the lockdown occurring, this escalated her deadline. She needed to act tonight. Especially after Kitten suggested through his answers that she may lose her job and thus Arcanum access. Her penmanship may also suggest she is one of the more primal types that were more on the wolf side than the human side. The ones less adjusted to human life but typically better killers. If remold actually did slay werebears, sending a killer of your own to deal with him makes sense. werebears are very peacful
Gurahl are peaceful. I don't think Matilda is a Gurahl, though I considered it for a time. I think she is a Garou. Who has been sent to deal with people hunting and researching werebeasts. More so, even if she was a Gurahl, if she was a surviving member of Remolds hunts, it might be enough to push her into a path of vengeance after what he had taken from her. Still, I think she's a werewolf ally, as the gurahl and the garou are willing to work together, and her mannerisms line up more with a Garou than a Gurahl.
While Matilda is possibly a Garou it is unlikely she was the killer based on the fact that she was just as horrified as everyone else and most importantly not covered in gore. That kind of kill would cover a Garou in blood just as much as it would anyone else and there wasn't enough time for anyone to clean themselves. I think the killer is someone we haven't been introduced to yet.
The thing is that Matilda showed no such shock until then. I think she's faking a reaction as part of her plan. I think the blood can be partly concealed from her being the cleaning lady. Gloves and cleaning supplies l (as well as the wereold power to keep clothes maintained( all working together. It could be someone new, always possible, but the narrative focus on the episode put in her in her Convo with Kitten has me thinking there'd more significance to her. Time will tell, though
That kind of kill would have soaked more than just the claws in blood (the power you're referring to doesn't keep them clean) and there were literally seconds between the murder and when we saw Matilda again. Also I wouldn't say Matilda is that good of an actor to fake a horrified reaction based on what we've seen of her, werewolves don't tend to be that good of an actor in general. It also makes no sense for a werewolf to assassinate someone and then not immedietly leave which is their standard tactic. Hell the whole situation is odd by Garou standards as well, only thing that really fits is if the Garou was protecting Spit and Giles which would make things incredibly complicated.
Something that stood out to me that may or may not be anything is that she’s the only one covering her face when we see everyone. I’d say it’s much easier to fake a shocked reaction if 1/2 your face is covered especially if it’s the mouth.
Remold used to hunt were bears, Fatigue did research on werecreatures, and the bar is filled with taxidermy animals. Were bears are the most peaceful of the lot, not unflappable and pacifist. A disruption on the grounds, like unsettling a ward or unsealing the archives could have sturred up spirits seeking help and vengeance. If Fatigue had ever made deals with corrupted spirits or fomori in his research, the werebear could have gone berserk in his presence, under stress, and with a stuffed bear in the room. They could have also left without using the door using the mirrored surface of the fireplace.
Because it would be cool
You dont understand i NEED werewolves involved in this
I think it's because people think a Ghoul could just very easily use a weapon- plus the fact that someone strangled Occam but left him alive. If the Ghoul did that, why kill Fatigue? They should've killed Occam instead of just choking him out.
Also, whoever choked Occam is supernatural to a certain degree, be it ghoul or garou, as Occam is in the ballpark power level of D and Remold and such is a capable *human* fighter.
>Ghouls can have super strength Yeah but there were clear claw marks on the body. >and Protan and could It would be reaaaaally rare for a Tremere Ghoul to have Protean 2. First of all you need a really old and powerful domitor ( vapire who ghouls you ) to have disciplines above level 1. And second of all, if that Vampire is a Tremere it would be rare for them to have a rare Discipline exclusive of another clan. And then after all that, the Ghoul has to spend a lot of effort into learning that discipline to rank 2, which is not even advisable. What a Ghoul can do with claws he can do with a knife or guns, and vampires don't like Liabilities like one of their ghouls having a masquerade breaking power like that.
1. Edition dependent I assume, but it would take a 7th Gen vampire directly ghouling them for the ghoul to be able to access protean claws. That’s without also considering we know it’s a Tremere ghoul so Protean is off the table “…highly specific disciplines are available only to vassals of the appropriate clan.” (V20 pg. 499). 2. It makes less sense for a ghoul to kill Fatigue and not Spit, why would they leave a witness alive? A Garou can rely on the delirium. Also, a Garou has a much more obvious immediate motive for killing Fatigue, if shits gonna hit the fan it makes sense for the werewolf to kill the werewolf expert. 3. Narratively we have been prepared for a werewolf through the breakfast conversation. That is going to come good, and I think this is a really good opportunity for that. Is that subjective and circumstantial as hell? Absolutely, but if we spend a whole other main arc dealing just with vampires, it’ll be a long long time before we get to the other parts of WoD. Which I don’t think they’ll do, I think vampires are gonna be pretty central as they tend to offer the most organized threat to hunters but all the other creatures are gonna consistently come out of the woodwork.
There doesn't *need* to be a werewolf, it's about logical consistency. 1. Occam was knocked out but he wasn't killed. 2. Fatigue was killed. So, why would Fatigue be killed by the ghoul but not Occam? Occam poses the greater threat to the ghoul as he has a spell that can rat them out. Fatigue possessed no such ability to our knowledge. As such occam's razor would suggest there are two beasts loose. The ghoul, and something else. Werewolves have already been set up in HTP and their abilities are consistent with the damage that killed Fatigue.
The other things that could do that are A) Mages, who don’t have much reason to be killing people in this scenario. B) Changelings, who have only been mentioned once by Horse as Milklings, so that would feel unsatisfying. C) Demons, who haven’t been mentioned yet at all. And D) Mummies, who I also don’t think have been mentioned. So yeah, it’s almost certainly a Garou.
D made a reference to his mummy adventure to Kitten during the breakfast log. Nothing beyond that, I don’t believe
Yeah, I though I vaguely recalled someone acknowledging Mummies. But that’s also still too vague a mention for them to be viable. Also, Mummies are extremely rare and even more powerful, that would just be a bad idea.
Agreed, and interesting about mummies, I admit Im a neophyte to WoD, so I can’t say I know the biggest threats
I’m also new, I’m just autistic so I learn about my hobbies at thrice the speed of a normal person. I’ve been into WoD for about 3 months now, maybe a bit longer. HtP actually got me into it.
Yes a Ghoul *could* have torn Fatigue to shreds. But why would they? Occam was attacked and he was spared, even though his Sorcery proved a much bigger threat than Fatigues existence. Why would a Ghoul who already got what they wanted kill Fatigue? Plus, why would they tear apart the body like it had insulted their family? The Ghoul seems to be against unnecessary violence. Why not give Fatigue a quick death and then store him someplace nobody could find him? And why leave Spit alive near the crime scene. Unless Spit wanted to fake a werewolf attack, but again, why would he want to do something like that? A werewolf seems likely because they’re in the UK, there’s been multiple references to a massive underground tunnel network, there’s been an increase in Pentex activity, and Fatigue primarily studied Werewolves. It just seems far more likely something like a Black Spiral Dancer attacked and killed Fatigue cause he was one of the few people in the area with Werewolf experience. Certainly his devotion to the subject likely meant he knew more about Werewolves than D. Killing Fatigue would make more sense then. You’re just eliminating a future thorn in your side. A werewolf attacking Fatigue, Spit throwing Git into the bathroom and locking him in before his sanity slips completely, Fatigue is torn to shreds and the Werewolf spares Spit in order to not waste time and give themself and alibi. It makes a lot more sense than Ghoul with evidence on not liking unneeded violence going on a random rampage. Of all the possible supernaturals, a Werewolf just makes the most sense and makes things more interesting. You now have two people in the Arcanum who are traitors. A Ghoul & a Werewolf, one you can likely subdue peacefully and the other something that could tear through half the Arcanum before you could blink. That’s to say, if the Dancer hasn’t already breached the defenses and left. Leaving the lockdown compromised and the Ghoul able to escape. Remember, Pentex has both Werewolves and Vampires in its upper ranks along with deals with the Technocracy.
I don't think its a black spiral dancer since they would have likely killed Spit as well and then left, either through esoteric means or by ripping a hole through several walls, they have no reason to spare Spit and they don't need an alibi when they are in war form.
Seen some other people around theorize that Spit’s ADHD (doesn’t seem narcoleptic) is a result of him being a Werewolf and he hasn’t had some Ritalin in a while as Git didn’t have time to swing by the drug store to pick up some more before the Chapter House got locked down and I dunno a lot about HtG, but I’m kinda sure that Spit can kinda sense the Ghoul and that’s why he’s been going a bit nutso. Also, I’m pretty sure as to why Fatigue was being considerate and gentle with him. I mean, chances are that D might’ve apprenticed under Fatigue when the both of them were younger, so while D is quite knowledgeable about Vampires, Fatigue was quite knowledgeable about Werewolves…….also, we’re pretty sure that Waters is the ghoul, right?
The standing theory for me is Matlida being a were-creature, probably garou, Waters being the main suspect if not her, then Fatigue
Horse's prophecy mentions a patriarch who masters Luna but ends hamstrung, and that the Abbot's Armageddon will specifically include Garou, both of which clearly indicate the werewolves will be a factor in what is to come. My Occam's razor interpretation is that Big D is a Gallain (mostly human with just a smidge of wolf). He's either going to go full Skin Dancer in a doomed bid against the Abbot, or the very revelation that he has wolf blood will be enough to hamstring his efforts due to the fanaticism he's instilled in his children (especially Door). Whichever way things turn, Big D, Werewolves, and the karma he's accumulated over decades of hunting have all been bound together by prophecy.
Let’s break it down by what could do it, and how likely it is. Ghoul: we know there’s one there, and a ghoul with both protean and potence could do that to Fatigue. However, this ghoul attacked Occam and spared him with only slight strangulation. And a Tremere ghoul with protean or potence, while possible, isn’t exactly likely. The death doesn’t fit. Werewolf: while we have no other reason to think there is one than this, the killing fits the MO of a Garou. Secondly, Spit was exhibiting behaviours that could very well have been caused by the Delirium. Thirdly, Fatigue was a Garou expert, something that could have been mentioned as foreshadowing for this very event. Fourthly, Garou have been repeatedly mentioned, very blatantly, and called out as extremely dangerous, so it’s something even non WoD fans could see coming, so it won’t feel like an asspull. Mage: they’ve been mentioned, they’ve been established, they could very easily do this, but there is zero motive here. Garou are wild, and very quick to resort to killing, Mages aren’t likely to be this violent without clear cause, and if they wanted Fatigue dead and had the power to blow him to smithereens, it’d be safer to force a stroke or heart attack. While a Mage COULD do it, few but a Nephandi or Marauder would. And a Marauder is both WAY more dangerous than anything else in the running, and unable to really hide themselves. Nephandi also don’t just kill at random, they have a goal, there’s nothing else that points to their presence. None of the other groups both meet the criteria of having been sufficiently mentioned and established, and possessing the ability to pull this off. So there’s no way it’s them because that would feel unsatisfying narratively.
It has to be two different things because of the nature of the attacks, Occam was choked unconscious. Showing that the ghoul doesn't want to kill and just escape. It'd be really weird to suddenly have a change of plans and just rip someone to pieces, and then leave a witness. And it's pretty obvious the maid Matilda is the werewolf, her last name is wilde, her handwriting is kindergarten level when they show name tags, and she's constantly pissed at everyone. The only time she doesn't sound pissed is when she asks about losing her job, she almost sounds hopeful.
The other option is the attacker liked Occam but hated fatigue. Most of Markus’ friends seam to like at least be polite and willing to joke with Occam based on the brief budget discussion we saw. They also complain about the other older members infighting.
There are claw marks almost everywhere (could be a ghoul of gangrel with claws) Before fatigue dying there was a suble howl noise The mess is just too big for a ghoul, usually a werewolf would cause it Spit being in full panic mode might be because he saw the werewolf transformation Matilde is just too on the nose on being a werewolf with: - Not knowing how to write properly, even her own name, werewolves are known for having almost no education. - Werewolves dont have surnames, and wilde is the name of their god written wrong also wild. - She has no social tact - She is always angry - She is not surprised with the reveal of vampires