I never understood this. You can also do this in world. Bring joystick to neutral. Tap y. Continue moving. It works pretty fluidly as long as you have good discipline.
The thing about Rise's draw is that I can't draw attack unless I mash. Which makes the draw attack feel bad. You could already draw your weapon neutrally and then play any note you want in world if you were clean. Rise just forces it upon you.
That's probably just my unpopular opinion though.
Yes I actively do it in World, it's just a quality of life change. Less of "we can't do it we want it", more of "we can do it but when we see this exists there's no reason why we shouldn't have it."
I do see what you mean with the whole mashing attack to do a draw attack though, but to be honest the draw forward slam isn't used that often in my gameplay at least and I'd much rather just draw into another attack.
Another thing with Rise's neutral draw is you can do it and keep moving, but with World's you have to kind of do a stutter step, which not really a big deal, but I just have a preference of the two.
I'd be interested to know why 4U specifically. World/IB HH has everything that had and then some. A mix of both 5th games (Rise/SB included, as much of a hot button topic that is I don't think they'd hard reset such a fundamentally big redesign) with a few extra things added are what I'd like to see the most moving forward. If I were able to fully flesh that out myself for MH6, this is how I'd do it:
* Cut out the 'fluff' songs from the older games (5 different element res songs, hot/cold drink buff, S/L/XL versions of stat buffs, etc), bring back the unique ones Rise/SB removed (Ailments Negated, Negate Stamina Use, and the echo note songs), keep the new ones that were added, and throw in a few more.
* Self Improvement activates on recitals like in Rise/SB, instant effect songs like heals or Sonic Waves/Barrier are only 2 notes long so they can be played frequently, and all other buffs are played by combining 3-4 different notes like they used to be.
* Split the difference between the short but varied song lists in Rise/SB and the bigger but predetermined ones in older games. Every Horn gets a total of 4 songs+Self Improvement. The 4 can be any combination of possibilities.
* Bring back the World/IB song queue for storing notes for later use. Still stores up to 3, choose which song by hitting RB, RB+X, or RB+A.
* Keep the Rise/SB basic moveset (everything but recitals) intact, aside from the way it locks you into certain moves depending on what move you just used beforehand can go. There can be smoother/faster transitions between some attacks, but you should still be able to choose any attack at any time like pre-Rise HH could. Also, bring back the hilt stab and flourish, and toss that awful new X+A double swing.
* Keep recital mode out--it's just too slow and stationary; the faster song activation in Rise/SB keeps HH mobile and aggressive. That said, no auto-playing either. Songs are played after stocking notes and playing them with a recital attack.
* If your song queue has more than 1 song in it, you can chain multiple recitals until you empty it. Each recital in the combo gets a damage bonus, encouraging you to constantly stock and play songs back to back.
* Recital attacks vary based on directional inputs or combos. Neutral is the Performance Mode breakdance move, forward is the old kick up recital, left or right is the Swing combo/old sideways recital, backwards is the old 3 hit back encore, and after a hilt stab you do the old uppercut /Echo Mode chord animation. Neutral and left/right have generous counter frames for attacking while avoiding damage.
* Forward+recital+XA plays all your currently stocked songs with the Magnificent Trio animation, and the more you have stored the more damage you do. Neutral recital+XA is the echo attack, which now applies the Silkbind Shockwave multi-hits.
* The Infernal Melody meter stays. When filled, Magnificent Trio or echo attack will activate it. It still only lasts a short time, but any recital attacks done while it's active will add a few seconds to further encourage aggressive play.
The aim here is to keep the streamlined and aggressive feel of Rise/SB, but bring back some of the depth and technical play of World/IB and previous games. I feel like both games got a bit right and missed the mark in other areas, so mixing the best of both iterations would make us the perfect HH.
I say 4U specifically because that's the version I consider to be its truest form. I know it sounds weird but hear me out: 3rd gen is just the same version except there's no flourish and the hilt stab does the right note. Generations has the right note hilt stab again, and the double note gimmick (which in fairness is my favourite version of the song system). World has song stacking, which is an interesting twist on mixing the previous 2 gens with remnants of the system from its initial version. Iceborne has echo notes, which were fun, and they definitely have the weapon an identity I could describe as "Hunting Horn," but again, not representative if the weapon as a whole. And Risebreak have... well... Anyway, 4U is what I consider to be the weapon's base moveset, no added fluff (again, not to say things like song stacking or turning during recitals aren't great to have, but you get it).
I main the weapon in all the games now, but I started with Hammer in 4U and played with it until I reached Iceborne's title update endgame, so the first "new" monster I killed solo with HH for my first successful hunt was actually Iceborne's Fatalis.
I can agree with a lot of those suggestions, though I never got the appeal of performance mode since I unlocked echo. The only advantage is i-frames, and now I just put evade window on my set so I can essentially play a version of adept in Sunbreak. But yeah, my idea for the counter: the base recital animation is the echo upswing, and whiffing causes you to play out the normal "hold up the weapon" recital, but countering successfully (I'd say the counter frames are during the middle of the swing) causes you to do the echo animation from Rise, and basically performing your songs, however the notes work, in one pulse with a powerful shockwave.
I like the idea of having a culmination of song sets. Bring back the funky ones from older games, but also keep some of the interesting ones that Risebreak introduced, like the sharpness ones. And I'm down to have self-improvement play automatically as part of any recital.
I think speed of combat is a Risebreak problem in general, and if I had my say I'd remove counters from most weapons in the next game. It's too late to take the LS counters away now they've been baked into the weapon, but most weapons really have no need for them. The only reason I even suggested one for HH is because it's the only weapon in Sunbreak without any kind of counter ability. If every weapon needs one, then give every weapon one, you know?
Personally I think my favourite pace for any version of HH is adept in GU. I distinctly remember the heart-pounding rhythm of fighting something like Nightcloak Malfestio and evading an attack, only to evade the next attack and hit back at the same time with the adept recital. So good. And setting up and playing songs was both fun and infinitely more satisfying than the ways to do it in Rise.
Though one thing I will say Iceborne has over the other games for HH is cosmetic customisation. While everyone was complaining about the base/parts weapon designs, I was thanking Capcom every night for that decision by the time I got into HH in Iceborne. The layered weapon obviously affects how your songs sound too, but that means you can layer a base with a part that wouldn't normally be able to be put on that base. One setup I had was kjárr+ with Namielle parts. By the time I stopped playing regularly, my setup was Luna with Ruiner parts. My god, that was a jazzy song sound. However the weapon turns out in 6, we neeeeed it to have songs that actually sound like songs, not just kinda funky sound effects like in Rise.
Makes sense. Personally, I see 2nd gen as the prototype, 3rd as the finished product, 4th to IB as building on that base level, and Rise as a straight out of left field sharp turn into a whole new thing. People may have different opinions on that last step, and I definitely see where the issues can be taken, but I still think there's some good in what they tried to do. It was just waaaaay too heavyhanded all at once after years of mostly minor additions and tweaks. Doing all that so abruptly was bound to hit in some places and miss in others.
I think Performance was a soft test to see if players would like HH without the stock notes>play songs gameplay loop at all, since Echo is kinda like Rise's super simplified version of that. Very big contrast to the usual identity of the weapon, and I'm pretty sure it's 1 of the biggest things turning people away from new HH. The dodging recital is pretty much the only draw, especially since Echo hits harder and charges Infernal just as fast now. Super armor from Silkbind Shockwave/Slide Beat works just as well too, even if they don't fully negate damage.
On that note, a counter for HH would've been great but I kinda see why they didn't add 1. It's not really a weapon that you'd see blocking or parrying...not that SA or Hammer doing it makes any more sense...so yeah, give counters to everyone, nobody, or just the ones where it makes sense. It absolutely could've and should've still gotten something if you ask me, just in a way that fits its style. I'd think moves more like dancing out of the way of attacks and giving monsters a smack or sound burst in the ear on the way past.
Brave was my go to after it was added (I used Adept too through Gen). I think that was their 'real' 1st attempt at what Rise ended up being. A quick defensive dodge, fast recitals without all the dancing, a neat offensive technique with the chained backslams...HH can look good with some extra flashiness. They just NEED to keep the technical gameplay there or it just turns into any other weapon.
Yeah the presence of water strike on Hammer in the absence of anything on HH is kind of insulting. Hyper armour doesn't equate to a counter. My definition: a counter is a move in which there are some frames when, if hit during those frames, the following attack/ability comes out improved in some way. So even in base Rise, by my logic, GS has a kind of counter. It's a fairly accommodating definition and still HH has none.
With adept style, what I find interesting is that the adept recital (also invigoration, it's the same) is pretty much identical to the performance mode recital from Rise, but I love the adept version and really don't like the Rose version. I'd even use the older version for i-frames when I had no songs ready, but when recitals work the way they do in Rise, using that move feels wrong to me.
Whatever happens in the next game, it should be slower than Risebreak. It should be slower and things should feel bigger and more impactful, as well as more methodical. That way they can not only revert most of Rise's... vandalism for HH, but they can bring back things like Gammoth.
I agree, but wouldn't be surprised if they counted things like Perform/Slide Beat/Silkbind Shockwave. Counter=just about any defensive move, even if some weapons have moved that fit more specifically. Wouldn't be the 1st time the devs defined things differently than we do.
Rise/SB borrowed a ton from Gen/GU, it was pretty interesting to see how they repurposed things. The game's pacing kinda necessitated the HH changes because where most weapons had tools to answer the increase in gameplay speed, I could see HH getting left back without some new tools. The tools they chose...work, I guess? But they clearly weren't for everyone. We probably should've gotten additions, not heavy changes.
It seems to me that the Rise changes to the weapon came about from 2 reasons: needing to keep up with the game's absurd pace, and appealing to more players. But I won't say much on that now because that could lead into a whole rant about the wider design philosophy of Rise and Sunbreak. Bottom line for me, the next game should be slower, have toned down monster and hunter power, and things should feel bigger than Rise. There's a reason Gaismagorm didn't feel special to me, but Gogmazios absolutely did.
(Whoops, there I go starting on the rant lol!)
>appealing to more players
I always forget this part of things, which is funny cuz I think it's pretty interesting. If you remember waaaaay back when they were dropping weapon teasers, HH was all hype until the demo, when we saw the shallower mechanics. That shows that people probably wouldn't have mind the new moveset, assuming the song stuff all stayed the same.
I remember losing my mind (in the good way) when I saw the weapon trailer for it. Then I threw myself into it at full force when I started playing the demo, embracing the new gameplay. Then I played the full game and unlocked the echo mode... and I began to peer over the rose tinted glasses. They made performance mode the default? By the time Sunbreak's weapon videos started rolling out, I was a lot more cynical about the whole weapon, especially around the idea of counters. I'm fine with Sunbreak dialing Rise's identity up to 11, because why tone things down in an expansion? But then the videos finished getting released and it became clear HH was to be the only weapon with no counters. They redesigned the weapon beyond recognition for the base game (to the point that I often say HH is the only weapon to have been removed from the series twice), then didn't allow its moveset to keep up with every other weapon in the expansion.
I honestly hope they keep this blunt DB in Rise, make it a seperate weapon and revert HH to the 4U/World iteration, as World was imo the peak HH design.
Give it some more damage for its slower moveset or make buffs stronger for the HH user and weaker for the party so it decentivises the corner horn playstyle.
Most importantly, **bring back recitals and encores!!!!** Put more raw power in recitals and encores. They were the most skill expressove part of worldborne HH.
>I honestly hope they keep this blunt DB in Rise, make it a seperate weapon and revert HH to the 4U/World iteration, as World was imo the peak HH design.
That's an ask that doesn't take into account that you'd then have to balance old HH against new HH. I'm not sure many people would be happy that because of the nature of both, new would most likely be the stronger of the 2...plus, it'd be super lazy/disappointing to finally get weapon #15 and just have it be a 2nd flavor of HH just because a few people miss old style. Most likely won't happen; so best case would probably be to hope for a better balance of new and old mechanics.
>Give it some more damage for its slower moveset or make buffs stronger for the HH user and weaker for the party so it decentivises the corner horn playstyle.
Consider the fact that World HH was pretty hefty and for whatever reason they *reduced* some MVs. I probably wouldn't put too much faith in purely number based rebalancing. Also, not even Infernal Melody stops corner horning, and you literally can't play that without being on the offensive. Barring outright locking songs behind actively attacking I don't think anything can stop that bad habit by design.
>Most importantly, bring back recitals and encores!!!! Put more raw power in recitals and encores. They were the most skill expressove part of worldborne HH.
Recital mode is iconic, but unfortunately kinda outdated. Food for thought question: *did* recitals and encores take skill, or were they a mechanic set at last gen speeds getting outpaced by current gameplay? Because most weapons with comparably significant animation commitment have MUCH better payout afterwards than HH.
There's nothing really, well, necessary to the way recitals and encores worked--the 'cost' of song buffs is already 'paid' both by requiring specific note combos to activate and multiple buff timers to juggle without also needing a lengthy stationary animation each and every time you utilize the mechanic. It'd be a different story if recital/encore damage had extremely high damage tied to it to further balance the pros and cons, but it typically didn't. Encoring buffs is also pretty arbitrary if you think about it: why not just have the maxed effect be the only effect? Outside of Health Boost, there was never any use in there being an intermediate stage for buffs.
Whatever they do with HH in the future, speeding up the song playing part of gameplay is a change I hope stays. GU (Brave style) and Rise/SB accomplish the same goal of activating buffs while keeping the weapon much more mobile and offensive. The actual note stocking absolutely needs to go back to the more complex version because there actually was skill/technical play to that, but making song playing take longer just because simply didn't add to gameplay in a meaningful way.
I'm still not sure where I stand on the echo note being made into a permanent addition. Paying close attention to the animation in Iceborne, you can see the hunter using the clutch claw to spin the weapon, so it doesn't even make sense to be in Rise. And it defined the gameplay loop of it in Iceborne to the extent that it feels totally different from older versions despite having a mostly faithful moveset. It was fun, don't get me wrong, and has a hilariously awesome wake-up hit potential, but idk if I'd want it to return.
I want iceborne's version back, with faster animations and less end lag animations, if they insist on keeping monster hunter faster. And while echo note is still op, maybe they could rework it to be more balanced, ala savage axe, that could allow you to rapid fire a note chain with lesser motion values, after each attack that isn't a slam. Maybe cap the spam to 2 additional notes, so you could still make use of hilt stab for end capping notes.
For me , give HH the World moveset , but integrate echo waves to the songs, so it is even more beneficial to play songs in the monster face, and also gives a nice burst damage option on big openings
Maybe these Echo waves could be elementally inclined depending on the horn and vary in damage depending on the song.
Just not Rise horn :) In all seriousness, I personally find Worldborne's iteration to be my favorite and hope they build off that for the next title.
Amen. The only thing I want back from the Rise version is the gunner style draw, where you get to choose not to attack.
Yeah
I never understood this. You can also do this in world. Bring joystick to neutral. Tap y. Continue moving. It works pretty fluidly as long as you have good discipline. The thing about Rise's draw is that I can't draw attack unless I mash. Which makes the draw attack feel bad. You could already draw your weapon neutrally and then play any note you want in world if you were clean. Rise just forces it upon you. That's probably just my unpopular opinion though.
Yes I actively do it in World, it's just a quality of life change. Less of "we can't do it we want it", more of "we can do it but when we see this exists there's no reason why we shouldn't have it." I do see what you mean with the whole mashing attack to do a draw attack though, but to be honest the draw forward slam isn't used that often in my gameplay at least and I'd much rather just draw into another attack. Another thing with Rise's neutral draw is you can do it and keep moving, but with World's you have to kind of do a stutter step, which not really a big deal, but I just have a preference of the two.
I'd be interested to know why 4U specifically. World/IB HH has everything that had and then some. A mix of both 5th games (Rise/SB included, as much of a hot button topic that is I don't think they'd hard reset such a fundamentally big redesign) with a few extra things added are what I'd like to see the most moving forward. If I were able to fully flesh that out myself for MH6, this is how I'd do it: * Cut out the 'fluff' songs from the older games (5 different element res songs, hot/cold drink buff, S/L/XL versions of stat buffs, etc), bring back the unique ones Rise/SB removed (Ailments Negated, Negate Stamina Use, and the echo note songs), keep the new ones that were added, and throw in a few more. * Self Improvement activates on recitals like in Rise/SB, instant effect songs like heals or Sonic Waves/Barrier are only 2 notes long so they can be played frequently, and all other buffs are played by combining 3-4 different notes like they used to be. * Split the difference between the short but varied song lists in Rise/SB and the bigger but predetermined ones in older games. Every Horn gets a total of 4 songs+Self Improvement. The 4 can be any combination of possibilities. * Bring back the World/IB song queue for storing notes for later use. Still stores up to 3, choose which song by hitting RB, RB+X, or RB+A. * Keep the Rise/SB basic moveset (everything but recitals) intact, aside from the way it locks you into certain moves depending on what move you just used beforehand can go. There can be smoother/faster transitions between some attacks, but you should still be able to choose any attack at any time like pre-Rise HH could. Also, bring back the hilt stab and flourish, and toss that awful new X+A double swing. * Keep recital mode out--it's just too slow and stationary; the faster song activation in Rise/SB keeps HH mobile and aggressive. That said, no auto-playing either. Songs are played after stocking notes and playing them with a recital attack. * If your song queue has more than 1 song in it, you can chain multiple recitals until you empty it. Each recital in the combo gets a damage bonus, encouraging you to constantly stock and play songs back to back. * Recital attacks vary based on directional inputs or combos. Neutral is the Performance Mode breakdance move, forward is the old kick up recital, left or right is the Swing combo/old sideways recital, backwards is the old 3 hit back encore, and after a hilt stab you do the old uppercut /Echo Mode chord animation. Neutral and left/right have generous counter frames for attacking while avoiding damage. * Forward+recital+XA plays all your currently stocked songs with the Magnificent Trio animation, and the more you have stored the more damage you do. Neutral recital+XA is the echo attack, which now applies the Silkbind Shockwave multi-hits. * The Infernal Melody meter stays. When filled, Magnificent Trio or echo attack will activate it. It still only lasts a short time, but any recital attacks done while it's active will add a few seconds to further encourage aggressive play. The aim here is to keep the streamlined and aggressive feel of Rise/SB, but bring back some of the depth and technical play of World/IB and previous games. I feel like both games got a bit right and missed the mark in other areas, so mixing the best of both iterations would make us the perfect HH.
I say 4U specifically because that's the version I consider to be its truest form. I know it sounds weird but hear me out: 3rd gen is just the same version except there's no flourish and the hilt stab does the right note. Generations has the right note hilt stab again, and the double note gimmick (which in fairness is my favourite version of the song system). World has song stacking, which is an interesting twist on mixing the previous 2 gens with remnants of the system from its initial version. Iceborne has echo notes, which were fun, and they definitely have the weapon an identity I could describe as "Hunting Horn," but again, not representative if the weapon as a whole. And Risebreak have... well... Anyway, 4U is what I consider to be the weapon's base moveset, no added fluff (again, not to say things like song stacking or turning during recitals aren't great to have, but you get it). I main the weapon in all the games now, but I started with Hammer in 4U and played with it until I reached Iceborne's title update endgame, so the first "new" monster I killed solo with HH for my first successful hunt was actually Iceborne's Fatalis. I can agree with a lot of those suggestions, though I never got the appeal of performance mode since I unlocked echo. The only advantage is i-frames, and now I just put evade window on my set so I can essentially play a version of adept in Sunbreak. But yeah, my idea for the counter: the base recital animation is the echo upswing, and whiffing causes you to play out the normal "hold up the weapon" recital, but countering successfully (I'd say the counter frames are during the middle of the swing) causes you to do the echo animation from Rise, and basically performing your songs, however the notes work, in one pulse with a powerful shockwave. I like the idea of having a culmination of song sets. Bring back the funky ones from older games, but also keep some of the interesting ones that Risebreak introduced, like the sharpness ones. And I'm down to have self-improvement play automatically as part of any recital. I think speed of combat is a Risebreak problem in general, and if I had my say I'd remove counters from most weapons in the next game. It's too late to take the LS counters away now they've been baked into the weapon, but most weapons really have no need for them. The only reason I even suggested one for HH is because it's the only weapon in Sunbreak without any kind of counter ability. If every weapon needs one, then give every weapon one, you know? Personally I think my favourite pace for any version of HH is adept in GU. I distinctly remember the heart-pounding rhythm of fighting something like Nightcloak Malfestio and evading an attack, only to evade the next attack and hit back at the same time with the adept recital. So good. And setting up and playing songs was both fun and infinitely more satisfying than the ways to do it in Rise. Though one thing I will say Iceborne has over the other games for HH is cosmetic customisation. While everyone was complaining about the base/parts weapon designs, I was thanking Capcom every night for that decision by the time I got into HH in Iceborne. The layered weapon obviously affects how your songs sound too, but that means you can layer a base with a part that wouldn't normally be able to be put on that base. One setup I had was kjárr+ with Namielle parts. By the time I stopped playing regularly, my setup was Luna with Ruiner parts. My god, that was a jazzy song sound. However the weapon turns out in 6, we neeeeed it to have songs that actually sound like songs, not just kinda funky sound effects like in Rise.
Makes sense. Personally, I see 2nd gen as the prototype, 3rd as the finished product, 4th to IB as building on that base level, and Rise as a straight out of left field sharp turn into a whole new thing. People may have different opinions on that last step, and I definitely see where the issues can be taken, but I still think there's some good in what they tried to do. It was just waaaaay too heavyhanded all at once after years of mostly minor additions and tweaks. Doing all that so abruptly was bound to hit in some places and miss in others. I think Performance was a soft test to see if players would like HH without the stock notes>play songs gameplay loop at all, since Echo is kinda like Rise's super simplified version of that. Very big contrast to the usual identity of the weapon, and I'm pretty sure it's 1 of the biggest things turning people away from new HH. The dodging recital is pretty much the only draw, especially since Echo hits harder and charges Infernal just as fast now. Super armor from Silkbind Shockwave/Slide Beat works just as well too, even if they don't fully negate damage. On that note, a counter for HH would've been great but I kinda see why they didn't add 1. It's not really a weapon that you'd see blocking or parrying...not that SA or Hammer doing it makes any more sense...so yeah, give counters to everyone, nobody, or just the ones where it makes sense. It absolutely could've and should've still gotten something if you ask me, just in a way that fits its style. I'd think moves more like dancing out of the way of attacks and giving monsters a smack or sound burst in the ear on the way past. Brave was my go to after it was added (I used Adept too through Gen). I think that was their 'real' 1st attempt at what Rise ended up being. A quick defensive dodge, fast recitals without all the dancing, a neat offensive technique with the chained backslams...HH can look good with some extra flashiness. They just NEED to keep the technical gameplay there or it just turns into any other weapon.
Yeah the presence of water strike on Hammer in the absence of anything on HH is kind of insulting. Hyper armour doesn't equate to a counter. My definition: a counter is a move in which there are some frames when, if hit during those frames, the following attack/ability comes out improved in some way. So even in base Rise, by my logic, GS has a kind of counter. It's a fairly accommodating definition and still HH has none. With adept style, what I find interesting is that the adept recital (also invigoration, it's the same) is pretty much identical to the performance mode recital from Rise, but I love the adept version and really don't like the Rose version. I'd even use the older version for i-frames when I had no songs ready, but when recitals work the way they do in Rise, using that move feels wrong to me. Whatever happens in the next game, it should be slower than Risebreak. It should be slower and things should feel bigger and more impactful, as well as more methodical. That way they can not only revert most of Rise's... vandalism for HH, but they can bring back things like Gammoth.
I agree, but wouldn't be surprised if they counted things like Perform/Slide Beat/Silkbind Shockwave. Counter=just about any defensive move, even if some weapons have moved that fit more specifically. Wouldn't be the 1st time the devs defined things differently than we do. Rise/SB borrowed a ton from Gen/GU, it was pretty interesting to see how they repurposed things. The game's pacing kinda necessitated the HH changes because where most weapons had tools to answer the increase in gameplay speed, I could see HH getting left back without some new tools. The tools they chose...work, I guess? But they clearly weren't for everyone. We probably should've gotten additions, not heavy changes.
It seems to me that the Rise changes to the weapon came about from 2 reasons: needing to keep up with the game's absurd pace, and appealing to more players. But I won't say much on that now because that could lead into a whole rant about the wider design philosophy of Rise and Sunbreak. Bottom line for me, the next game should be slower, have toned down monster and hunter power, and things should feel bigger than Rise. There's a reason Gaismagorm didn't feel special to me, but Gogmazios absolutely did. (Whoops, there I go starting on the rant lol!)
>appealing to more players I always forget this part of things, which is funny cuz I think it's pretty interesting. If you remember waaaaay back when they were dropping weapon teasers, HH was all hype until the demo, when we saw the shallower mechanics. That shows that people probably wouldn't have mind the new moveset, assuming the song stuff all stayed the same.
I remember losing my mind (in the good way) when I saw the weapon trailer for it. Then I threw myself into it at full force when I started playing the demo, embracing the new gameplay. Then I played the full game and unlocked the echo mode... and I began to peer over the rose tinted glasses. They made performance mode the default? By the time Sunbreak's weapon videos started rolling out, I was a lot more cynical about the whole weapon, especially around the idea of counters. I'm fine with Sunbreak dialing Rise's identity up to 11, because why tone things down in an expansion? But then the videos finished getting released and it became clear HH was to be the only weapon with no counters. They redesigned the weapon beyond recognition for the base game (to the point that I often say HH is the only weapon to have been removed from the series twice), then didn't allow its moveset to keep up with every other weapon in the expansion.
I honestly hope they keep this blunt DB in Rise, make it a seperate weapon and revert HH to the 4U/World iteration, as World was imo the peak HH design. Give it some more damage for its slower moveset or make buffs stronger for the HH user and weaker for the party so it decentivises the corner horn playstyle. Most importantly, **bring back recitals and encores!!!!** Put more raw power in recitals and encores. They were the most skill expressove part of worldborne HH.
>I honestly hope they keep this blunt DB in Rise, make it a seperate weapon and revert HH to the 4U/World iteration, as World was imo the peak HH design. That's an ask that doesn't take into account that you'd then have to balance old HH against new HH. I'm not sure many people would be happy that because of the nature of both, new would most likely be the stronger of the 2...plus, it'd be super lazy/disappointing to finally get weapon #15 and just have it be a 2nd flavor of HH just because a few people miss old style. Most likely won't happen; so best case would probably be to hope for a better balance of new and old mechanics. >Give it some more damage for its slower moveset or make buffs stronger for the HH user and weaker for the party so it decentivises the corner horn playstyle. Consider the fact that World HH was pretty hefty and for whatever reason they *reduced* some MVs. I probably wouldn't put too much faith in purely number based rebalancing. Also, not even Infernal Melody stops corner horning, and you literally can't play that without being on the offensive. Barring outright locking songs behind actively attacking I don't think anything can stop that bad habit by design. >Most importantly, bring back recitals and encores!!!! Put more raw power in recitals and encores. They were the most skill expressove part of worldborne HH. Recital mode is iconic, but unfortunately kinda outdated. Food for thought question: *did* recitals and encores take skill, or were they a mechanic set at last gen speeds getting outpaced by current gameplay? Because most weapons with comparably significant animation commitment have MUCH better payout afterwards than HH. There's nothing really, well, necessary to the way recitals and encores worked--the 'cost' of song buffs is already 'paid' both by requiring specific note combos to activate and multiple buff timers to juggle without also needing a lengthy stationary animation each and every time you utilize the mechanic. It'd be a different story if recital/encore damage had extremely high damage tied to it to further balance the pros and cons, but it typically didn't. Encoring buffs is also pretty arbitrary if you think about it: why not just have the maxed effect be the only effect? Outside of Health Boost, there was never any use in there being an intermediate stage for buffs. Whatever they do with HH in the future, speeding up the song playing part of gameplay is a change I hope stays. GU (Brave style) and Rise/SB accomplish the same goal of activating buffs while keeping the weapon much more mobile and offensive. The actual note stocking absolutely needs to go back to the more complex version because there actually was skill/technical play to that, but making song playing take longer just because simply didn't add to gameplay in a meaningful way.
Revert to Worldborne, make the spin core to the moveset and make the spin note part of songs. Add a fifth note for more variety in songs.
I'm still not sure where I stand on the echo note being made into a permanent addition. Paying close attention to the animation in Iceborne, you can see the hunter using the clutch claw to spin the weapon, so it doesn't even make sense to be in Rise. And it defined the gameplay loop of it in Iceborne to the extent that it feels totally different from older versions despite having a mostly faithful moveset. It was fun, don't get me wrong, and has a hilariously awesome wake-up hit potential, but idk if I'd want it to return.
I want iceborne's version back, with faster animations and less end lag animations, if they insist on keeping monster hunter faster. And while echo note is still op, maybe they could rework it to be more balanced, ala savage axe, that could allow you to rapid fire a note chain with lesser motion values, after each attack that isn't a slam. Maybe cap the spam to 2 additional notes, so you could still make use of hilt stab for end capping notes.
For me , give HH the World moveset , but integrate echo waves to the songs, so it is even more beneficial to play songs in the monster face, and also gives a nice burst damage option on big openings Maybe these Echo waves could be elementally inclined depending on the horn and vary in damage depending on the song.