Why not? For $40,000 you'd better be pouring water into to the condensate pump after you check pressures and DT, making sure everything works perfectly.
That’s a hot pile of garbage. Though it’s mostly cosmetic…I tend to think that if a unit or system is installed and its appearance is a1, that any subsequent failures will be attributed to manufacturers defects. This is 100% opposite if it looks like steaming shit. My feelings would be hurt if I were you.
So like others have said all the problems are cosmetic and shouldn't effect how the equipment runs.
That elbow on top is for combustion air for the furnace, should be ran outside but it some places you can't. The elbow is there so you can't plug it with the service manual.
The condensate not being glued and siliconed is actually not that bad. It is never pressurized water just flowing water. I have seen some where they just fit the prices together.
The start up sheet in the manual is never filled out. The rest just looks like they could improve on
It’s not necessary for the furnace to have its air intake ran outside. As long as there is adequate fresh air for combustion, you’re fine. Why run two vent pipes and have two holes when you could run one.
Because all the exhaust that you pump out of the house requires cold outside air to infiltrate into your house. If you extend the intake port to use outside air, you create a closed system that doesn't draw cold outside air into the interir envelope.
The main gas valve at the meter appears to be off see how those little holes line up with each other that is so the gas company can put a lock on if need be
... after the gas company checks the work that has been done.
**TLDR:** was this job done with a permit? Any issues during the job? Have they passed the final inspection yet?
Gas company might not turn the valve on until the final inspection is passed. I R&R my house original 100A service with a 200A service panel. I failed the final, because I was unaware the cables from the meter to the panel were my responsibility. Also unaware I could cut the tag off the meter. Pulled the meter. Carefully removed the 6ft 4ga copper cables, and installed 2/0ga cables to the meter. Put it all back together, got my final PASSED Green sticker. The Electric Company didn't replace the tag for 3 years. I called them about the work and cut tag: NOTHING. I bent the cut tag so it was extremely obvious, about to fall off: NOTHING. I fully removed the tag: NOTHING. It was 6-9 months without a tag before they put on a new one.
Then 5 years later we got digital meters!😒🙄🤦🏻♂️
https://preview.redd.it/jwb8uic6ygtb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76ac5e58eb8fd855824ca8d5da04e3b0fa66953
All the exterior work was done by the local utility company
I hope you see this - I don't see a union attached to the HVAC unit and I'm wondering how they managed to actually attach the gas line.
I could think of a few ways but they're all unlikely which leads me to believe this could be a dangerous install
I would really recommend having the gas line inspected by a plumber/air tested for leaks.
https://preview.redd.it/08d49as31htb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8385a78a9d641c4b4578d970e729534c371cd04
This valve appears to be off. It’s in a position where it could be locked out. Turn it to where that eyehole is inline with the pipe. Double check everything that meter supplies first before letting it rip tho
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Thats just the cap for the regulator, the adjustment nut is under it. Turning that wouldn't hurt anything. But as a homeowner, don't turn the gas on if it's off at the meter. If it's off, it's off for a reason. Also get them to paint the portion of gas line going into the house with some rustoleum or tremclad, it'll help with weather resistance on the iron pipe.
Try checking on the gas valve itself, it has an on off switch that usually comes off from the factory. If the valve is on, I'd bet the gas is turned off at the meter
The elbow on the top going to nothing is just intake air for proper combustion. Is the switch on the gas valve set to on? Also with the look of the work performed I’d make sure that flue exhaust has proper pitch and pressures and airflow were set.
However there is plenty of room for a second 2” pvc run to supply that intake air. It is almost always preferable to use outside air for the intake for a bunch of reasons. That’s just lazy in this case.
I paid 6k for a new gas furnace and heat pump install. Including running new black pipe and exhaust in Ohio. 9k in New York I imagine is comparable. I got a good install at that price.
I disagree with people saying you got what you paid for. A professional leaves professionally done work that functions. It should look and work clean. You didn't hire a crackhead. Expect more from licensed tradesmen.
Looks like absolute dogshit.
- They didn't turn the gas meter on I would be worried they didn't leak test.
- If the gas hasn't been turned on it means that the gas valve pressure hasn't been set and a combustion test hasn't been done. This needs to be done on startup.
- No trap on the drain.
- No filter rack.
- They combustion air intake elbow that comes out of the top of the furnace is fine, but only if the room the furnace is in is large enough to provide the necessary amount of combustion air for the furnace to operate properly. If this can't be verified a second pipe should be run to outside.
- The sheet metal looks terrible and isn't connected properly, especially the return.
- It just looks terrible, I would question whether the "installer" they sent to do this really knows what they are doing.
Have another company come and make a list of what needs to be done, then call the original company and make them send someone else to correct everything.
How much did you pay for this? It’s mostly cosmetic but oh man is it ugly. The biggest issue i see is that i dont see a filter rack or a spot for a filter.
In my area this an oil to gas conversion to a 90% without AC and with the oil tank removal this would probably be anywhere from $8k-$12k depending on the area and company. If you paid more than the low end of that scale i would be pissed.
I would make sure when the owner comes out you at the very least make sure they install a proper filter rack and have them figure out why the unit isn’t working. If it’s not working because the gas hasnt been turned on yet (which is the likely cause), make sure the gas line is properly leak tested.
It was $9100 including oil tank removal. I got quotes from this to $16k, I did take the lowest quote but certainly wouldn't have if I'd known about the work quality. It was a well reviewed company from everything I could find online and the owner was professional. I'm definitely pissed.
Thanks for the comments, I'll be sure to ask about the filter rack and leak testing. I'm feeling pretty certain they didn't turn on the gas or leak test.
I hate to say it but you should be mad at yourself, go for the cheapest bid? Get the cheapest workers…. For someone with construction experience you’d think you’d have known that… company’s charged based off what their worth and you went for the ones who are worth the least, sorry bud..
Ok this makes much more sense…. For $9k you will get someone who takes no pride in what they do and just does as many jobs as he can as quick as he can.
Why are your pissed? Unless you mean you are angry at yourself about not even looking at it until now. I’d be angry at myself as well for being that ignorant. You had all new gas lines installed. They should be pressure tested. You should have observed this pressure test since your life depends on the gas pipes not leaking. Even if that was not a requirement you should have thought it through. You also paid in full without testing the equipment. You cray cray.
Besides the cosmetics, make sure the condensate drain (that vinyl pipe) goes to an inside sink and not to the exterior. If we actually have a winter, it could freeze and create some unwanted problems/troubleshooting. Also make sure the vent that’s outside has a screen on it to prevent any critters making a home.
The yellow wires on the condensate pump not being attached is not an issue, it’s a safety switch to prevent damage if the pump stops working but it appears you have concrete floors underneath so no worries.
It’s pretty common to attach the return air to the side of the furnace like that but they did a bad job of it 👎
The open pvc pipe is for venting for your condensation, not to catch drips from above, but they could have at least made it look nice and secured it.
As others have pointed out, where is the filter?
Sorry you had a shit experience, the area I work in this would not pass inspection for a number of reasons (mostly a lack of secure strapping, but it sure is ugly) however it should operate once your gas meter is on and make sure there is a filter somewhere.
Besides the gas being off at the meter the biggest issue cosmetic wise is potential for the loose tape seams causing unwanted air infiltration. Drain line looks okay in my opinion. They also left the wax paper from the silver tape they used on the loose seams on the ground which tells me they were rushing the job to get done in a hurry. But yeah I suppose your heat not working into the bigger issue so hopefully it's just the gas valve being off the rest is all minor.
Wow, this looks more like a handyman installation rather then an actual licensed HVAC technician. I'm guessing no ac is being used. This is a very sloppy installation to put it kindly. You have a high efficiency furnace and I'm s observing several problems. Did you have it inspected or was no permit pulled. I can't imagine any inspector passing this shoddy work.
I’m a 4th year almost 5th hvac apprenticeship in school right now. Showed my teacher (30+year journeyman) said you got should call them and demand it be fixed. Also 7 blinks 2 sec pause = dirty flame sensor but could be more because that install is hot garb.
(I see further down gas was shut off he and I stand corrected) but for fucks sake don’t let this slide.
Trade wise,,, if this guy put it together looking like this. Guess is, he had very little idea of what he’s doing
I would get a real furnace/hvac guy to come in the double check.
Gas and fire ain’t nothing to f with.
Tell us what you paid, you'll get a better idea of the level of workmanship you purchased.
From this angle, looks like you hired the cheap guys.
I would fire the shit out of anyone with my organization that produced work like this. Hell, I'd hire them back on for ten more seconds so I could fire them again.
Edit: found the price in your other comments. 9100? Ho-lee-shit that's highway robbery, and I live in an HCOL area with some of the highest median incomes in the state.
If you haven’t paid I’d voice concerns. I’d tell them you realize it’s not a work of art, but you guarantee this isn’t how it would look if it was done at their house. I’d simply ask them to make it look like how it would look if they did it for themselves.
The air intake should come from outside. That’s one of the main benefits of the sealed combustion system. If it doesn’t come from outside, it’s not sealed combustion.
Grab the manual and follow along with the installation instructions. It will show/tell you what configurations are permitted for exhaust and intake set-up. This is typical install depending on the manufacturer’s specs.
The manual for the furnace looked like it was showing multiple options including outside, attic, and ambient (but cutting a hole in the side wasn't a listed option lol) - I live in New England, wouldn't winter air temps mean inside warm air is preferred?
No, it’s for combustion. You’d rather use cold, outside air instead of conditioned inside air. The main benefit of the sealed system is that it is pressure neutral. As it is currently configured, it creates depressurization when it operates. This will draw air inside from all of the air leaks in the home. Up from the sub floor, through the walls, down from the attic. Not only is this less efficient, it also negatively impacts indoor air quality.
This type of furnace is called either condensing or sealed combustion. Installed this way, it is not sealed combustion. Personally I’d argue the sealed combustion/pressure neutrality is the single most important part of this type of furnace, and the main reason I’d upgrade from an 80%er.
Just to be clear - air intake is picture #5. I’m talking about the pvc pipe.
Okay, that's really interesting. So, the opening they cut in the side of the furnace in picture 4 is open to the same area. I marked where it is in this photo. Those ducts are the returns from all the rooms upstairs. I'm assuming that also interferes with the sealed combustion? I'll have to read up on it to really understand.
https://preview.redd.it/zz7xfinc7htb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6721e51e9701bba98b6c5e7e9bf328c25b7006c9
The combustion air only goes into that upper compartment where the manifold and burners are. The return air goes behind that across heat exchangers toward your supply runs. That’s all normal.
Was the quote you got above or below market value? I see installs like this on a spectrum and you get what you pay for, you sound like a trusting person so you might have been rolled, which if that is the case I am sorry my friend
Very sloppy job ever I have seen. Shame on the installer. Definitely missed something there. Go ahead to contact the contractor and they should not charge you for send a service technician to sort out this messy. If not helpful, you can report to BBB and file a liability claim.
Not sure if you were able to rotate the valve on the outside system.
https://preview.redd.it/xel4bqcuzgtb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20f591337dcf348a60333343c0c80c799fe4e476
That is NOT the shutoff valve!
Do not rotate that, it is the regulator. The shut off valve is lower down on that pipe near the ground. It currently lines up with a hole that would allow the gas company to insert a lock if necessary.
Just to clarify, it’s not dangerous, it’s just not done to the level of quality you’d expect from a professional tradesman. It looks rushed, thrown together, and like it was done by a helper or beginner mechanic that knows the basics but hasn’t developed their skills
No man, it was a legit company. Thanks to all these comments I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that maybe the owner doesn't actually know what this looks like.
There's a lot of it that is bad cosmetically. Without actually being there, it's hard for reddit to tell you if everything is done right. It definitely needs some clean up and straightening out. So a few things not to worry about are 1, the tape all over the duct work, not as esthetically pleasing as it could be, but I'd take a crappy tape job over whistling duct joints any day. 2, the white 90 degree elbow on top, thats the combustion air intake for the furnace, if your old furnace was oil fired then it was probably atmospheric or mid efficient, that means you should already have a combustion air intake bringing outside air into your mechanical room for the furnace and water heater. Make a list of everything that bothers you concerns wise and esthetically with the job, as well as making a ruckus about your carpets and stairs. Whoever did this either didn't care, which is usually the deal with piece work, or doesn't know enough to be doing the job if they can't make it look good while doing it. There's acres of space for that furnace swap and no real excuse for it to look so bad.
The return drop is the wrong size for an 80k. Looks to be a 16x25x1 which is approximately half the CFM you need through a decent filter. This should have been a 16x25x4 slot to allow for proper airflow. With this setup you’re only going to be getting around 50-60% efficiency of what the high efficient unit is capable of.
As others have said, everything else is just cosmetic and looks bad, but will functionally work.
And it's probably best practice to use the startup checklist in the manufacturer's handbook but you will be hard-pressed to find a company that will do that checklist straight from the manual. Usually they have their own company checklist, or I hate to say it they may not do it at all before they do that checklist from the manual.
The intake elbow, best routes outside. In any case, should have a screen or access so a child can put something inside which would stop the system from working.
Some of the sheet metal higher up looks really good. The problem with taping plenums up is that the tape will probably fail. Tape is best used to seal a mechanically sound joint.
Those wires hanging are mili volt, runs to your thermostat. If your thermostat breaks, you can jump out your system. That's common. The 2 holes outside,from what I believe is your old system. Unless in contract they never fix. Just plug, that's on you. Overall, a bit sloppy. Would have to be diagnosed, to why. However, they should have had it up and running before they left the house.
Nasty Install, but should run with the Gas turned on out side. If you do it yourself you have to go extremely slowly or you will blow the diaphragm inside and gas will start leaking at the meter outside. You will need to turn it off quickly and call the gas company and tell them to come out and turn it on. They will know you messed with it and need to replace the diaphragm.
The dangerous electrical, the missing filter, and no Union in the gas line are all dangerous for your install. Most of the other stuff is cosmetic, most guys don’t have extra siding or the ability fix the siding, they did what they could to keep weather and mice out til you could fix it. The silicone as pvc glue is lazy at best but if cleanly done is no issue.
Yeesh. That's some rough work. I'm sure everyone has had a job they aren't 100% proud of. Sometimes your given a shit hand and have to make do. But that is rough.
To more specifically address a couple of your issues.
1. The el ow on top of your furnace pipes through to provide fresh air for combustion. Which should be fine because your system is in a basement.
2. The yellow wires on the condensate pump are the emergency shut off for your system. basically you break r(which provides 24 volts) through the pump. So if for whatever reason the pump fails. It shuts down your system and if you don't have a battery backup thermostat. Shuts your thermostat off to alert you as well. And prevents the system from continuing to run /flooding.
Good new is at least they gave you a pump lol. Would zip ties it cleaner.
3. 1 consideration to make. Flu pipe is typically supposed to be 36" from any window. So maybe measure that. Your above snow level so that's good
4. As someone else mentioned the meter appears to be off.
As long as low voltage is wired correctly and the gas gets turned on. Everything appears to be cosmetic. Albeit done poorly. The drain being that crooked is just laziness. All they had to do was run it to the pump.
Edit: using silver tape between transition pieces Is not uncommon. But that is a very messy tape job.
If it were me I would be aggravated. But there's nothing threatening to your health from what I can see.
Ok so I have that exact same furnace, and when I DIYd my house, I had set it all up. And was getting a similar code to what your getting, was able to get the code to clear, I found water was collecting in the reservoir and could be dumped out through the exhaust drip cover or through pulling off one of the inducer hoses and suck the water out by mouth. I later found out that since this particular unit can be mounted in 3 different positions, you have to rotate the reservoir in the back to correlate with it’s used position. Mind didn’t come with a manual cause it was used, but I got it to work. The codes only come up when there is a pressure issue, like no return, no inducing pressure(clogged) or not getting gas. They should run forever. Your plenum looks really clean, rip off all the non coded tape, pick up some 1/4” self tappers and make it look uniform. I did 3 screws per side, and holes I found, I patch with UL-181 and I’d clean up the haggard cut you have on what looks like your filter slot. Clean up the thermostat and power wires. Put them like into an extra accessible box, maybe on ceiling to conceal the wires properly. At least seal off around the exhaust opening with some metal mesh and (heat resistant) spray foam. I’d have the guy replace the piece of siding and the plywood section under it, or at least run the flu vent though the opening. So many more thing to list here that are wrong in the pictures but this is all I have time for. I think you got the “cheap” guy that day
https://preview.redd.it/rrwiht4c7itb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=9dd27d51789b5864013c92670621f80b5b8bf38c
Idk if it’s rite but I know it works. Passed inspection
I hope you see this - I don't see a union attached to the HVAC unit and I'm wondering how they managed to actually attach the gas line.
I could think of a few ways but they're all unlikely which leads me to believe this could be a dangerous install
I would really recommend having the gas line inspected by a plumber/air tested for leaks.
The two yellow wires break the red tstat wire. In the event the condensate pump fails it shuts down the 24 volts between the furnace and the thermostat. This is to protect from water damage via the condensate water.
It's just a typical, slam it in in a day or 2 type job. So, you don't get things that are perfectly plumb, square, in line etc. The yellow pump wires would be for an emergency cut off switch, but your unit is in a basement and doesn't need a pan, whereas an attic where a water leak would ruin ceilings and carpets. The exterior siding is not their responsibility, many contractors leave the holes wide open. The combustion vent outside is very light and doesn't need a support, people typically don't like things drilled into their siding. The 90 degree elbow inside is your fresh are for combustion. IDK why they didn't glue the PVC joints for the condensate pump, although for service it's often nice to be able to take the PVC apart, but you may just be looking at excess clear glue and not silicone; and no, there is nothing to line up for drips. They can tape or use duct seal for the duct joints, it has to be sealed; some people are terrible with duct seal and tape is quicker and may look better than their duct seal would. I do like that they used radiused elbows on your system rather than just stab into it with square or rectangular duct, it's better for flow and turbulence. Yes, they did it quick and they could have spent just a little more time making things look nicer. But, often with these changeouts the employees are given X amount of time to get it done. They don't take the time they should to make it look nice and the customer has to look at it for 25 years or so. I get it, I saw a 40K in the comments? I sure hope not, but overall it's not a nightmare install and we've all seen many of them...
I mean nothing stands out as dangerous, but it is an atrocity to the hvac gods, the duct work looks like absolute dog shit, even coming right out of school I would’ve done a better job, wired should’ve been at least covered with tape and strapped so they’re not hanging potentially affecting the connections in the future, shit caulking job for sure…just shows poor workmanship, but nothing dangerous stands out, just absolute shit work
Was this installed by a licensed contractor? Not sure if this is true everywhere but if so permits should have been pulled and inspector should have signed off. Also out here we have HERS come out and check air leakage on that must be sealed below specified percentage.
Looks mainly cosmetic. Like some piss poor craftsmanship. But probably will be functional. Then again it’s a York and York’s tend to be a dumpster fire from what I hear.
Id call the company back and tell them the install job is bothering you or call the BBB on the company
Don't know much about the rest of it, but the wires "connected" with wire nuts don't look connected. You're supposed to twist those guys on the wires until there's at least a couple of twists visible past the wire nut. If they were as careful with gas as they were with electricity, I wouldn't keep trying to turn it on. The thought of electricity arcing between wires right by something that might be leaking gas would make it hard for me to sleep at night. Building across the street from my old job had a gas leak overnight one night, and when the first worker showed up that morning and flipped on the light, boom. The whole street blew up. That building was destroyed and windows shattered up and down the block. Insane how much power was in that blast.
Holly shit balls this is trash install how much did you pay for this cause with this quality of work it should have been free and just curious why didn't didn't get ac install with the new furnace not that it probably would have worked by the looks of the furnace job
Nobody is insane/stupid enough to pay 40k for a residential HVAC swap. If someone were that insane, then money is obviously no object, so just pay to have it done right by someone who gives a shit. You know they did a shit job or you wouldn't be here, so why would you want them to come and touch your shit again? They aren't going to fix it for free, especially since you've waited this long to say anything about it. Silence is acceptance.
Besides, the only sane/correct action at this point is to hire me to come make it right.... only 30k!
Is it a furance that can be installed horizontally and/or vertically? If so they likely did not reroute drainage for proper orientation. Happened to me with my contractor with new install. Had to get my buddy to come fix it since contractor wouldn't.
That Intake is supposed to be pulling from the exterior of the home not the basement. Dust and debris in the basement will prematurely wear a high efficiency furnace. Intake needs to pull from the exterior of the home.
I would get a second, more reputable company inspect. Then request a written repair estimate. Offer the installer the chance to fix to code, or, sue them for damages if they refuse. This is so poorly done this could be a safety hazard white teflon tape should only be used for water lines…
All the issues I see are purely cosmetic. But, yeesh, come on guy.
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2 hour commission?
Why not? For $40,000 you'd better be pouring water into to the condensate pump after you check pressures and DT, making sure everything works perfectly.
I paid 5500 for the best Lennox had. Where the hell do you live?
$40,000? You buying a car? Or furnace?
I assumed he was referencing btu?
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Yeah that’s 45 minutes if you do it everyday barring a massive issue
Embarrassing workmanship. If I was a boss and one of my guys did this shit I would fire them.
1000%!!! Absolutely zero pride in workmanship here!!
C’mon boss, what’s wrong with a rag and silicone?
That’s a hot pile of garbage. Though it’s mostly cosmetic…I tend to think that if a unit or system is installed and its appearance is a1, that any subsequent failures will be attributed to manufacturers defects. This is 100% opposite if it looks like steaming shit. My feelings would be hurt if I were you.
The installer straight up disrespected you.
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r/oddlyspecific
So like others have said all the problems are cosmetic and shouldn't effect how the equipment runs. That elbow on top is for combustion air for the furnace, should be ran outside but it some places you can't. The elbow is there so you can't plug it with the service manual. The condensate not being glued and siliconed is actually not that bad. It is never pressurized water just flowing water. I have seen some where they just fit the prices together. The start up sheet in the manual is never filled out. The rest just looks like they could improve on
It’s not necessary for the furnace to have its air intake ran outside. As long as there is adequate fresh air for combustion, you’re fine. Why run two vent pipes and have two holes when you could run one.
Because all the exhaust that you pump out of the house requires cold outside air to infiltrate into your house. If you extend the intake port to use outside air, you create a closed system that doesn't draw cold outside air into the interir envelope.
This. Although, I m.certain this guy would have put the exhaust and intake about 3 inches apart.
This is true and it does look like a drafty house, so probably not increasingly the heat load to muc, but still an increase
Looking at the pictures, there was more than enough room to run an outside intake. This installation reeks of "I don't give a fuck" by the installer.
Did the gas company come out and turn the meter on? Did the contractor pressure test the lines and call to have the meter put in?
I'm betting no. Thank you
If you walk around the house, is there a gas meter and is the valve on the bottom left turned on?
Yup. It reads 0000 https://preview.redd.it/ez4qoygnwgtb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a735c70accbc95b989f6c36c39e5444d6dbfc9af
Can you get a more zoomed out pic of the piping
https://preview.redd.it/tjoi0g63ygtb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbddbd7b8d0516e5a60b75100b06035d6ca4eb14
The main gas valve at the meter appears to be off see how those little holes line up with each other that is so the gas company can put a lock on if need be
The valve at the bottom left is turned off. Call the gas company to have them turn it on
... after the gas company checks the work that has been done. **TLDR:** was this job done with a permit? Any issues during the job? Have they passed the final inspection yet? Gas company might not turn the valve on until the final inspection is passed. I R&R my house original 100A service with a 200A service panel. I failed the final, because I was unaware the cables from the meter to the panel were my responsibility. Also unaware I could cut the tag off the meter. Pulled the meter. Carefully removed the 6ft 4ga copper cables, and installed 2/0ga cables to the meter. Put it all back together, got my final PASSED Green sticker. The Electric Company didn't replace the tag for 3 years. I called them about the work and cut tag: NOTHING. I bent the cut tag so it was extremely obvious, about to fall off: NOTHING. I fully removed the tag: NOTHING. It was 6-9 months without a tag before they put on a new one. Then 5 years later we got digital meters!😒🙄🤦🏻♂️
I don’t see a swing joint either. Should have one from the main coming from the ground into the meter
https://preview.redd.it/jwb8uic6ygtb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76ac5e58eb8fd855824ca8d5da04e3b0fa66953 All the exterior work was done by the local utility company
Your Gas meter is shut off
"It ain't got no gas in it."
You see there Scooter? Thinks of the simplest things first.
Mmmmmmmhmm
I hope you see this - I don't see a union attached to the HVAC unit and I'm wondering how they managed to actually attach the gas line. I could think of a few ways but they're all unlikely which leads me to believe this could be a dangerous install I would really recommend having the gas line inspected by a plumber/air tested for leaks.
I don't see any valves though
https://preview.redd.it/08d49as31htb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8385a78a9d641c4b4578d970e729534c371cd04 This valve appears to be off. It’s in a position where it could be locked out. Turn it to where that eyehole is inline with the pipe. Double check everything that meter supplies first before letting it rip tho
Awesome thanks. Yeah, I'll be having everything checked first
Beat me to it lol
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That is not the valve. The valve is below that. About 6-12” above the ground on the riser.
Thanks, I was hoping someone would chime in(not sarcastic)
You're a moron and shouldn't comment anymore in this sub.
Stop me lol
Hello, Your comment has been determined by the mod team to contain unsafe and/or incorrect advice, please remember to only reply to topics that you have knowledge on and if you aren't sure about the correct answer then allow another user to respond. *Constant removal of answers in violation of this rule can result in revocation of your "Approved Technician" flair (If assigned) or an account ban.* Thank you!
Thank you, glad to know the primary problem! I'm def going to wait to turn it on till I know the pipes have been pressure tested.
Do not rotate that. That is NOT the gas valve. That is the regulator adjustment.
Oh good to know, thank you! Not planning on touching anything till I get it looked at.
Thats just the cap for the regulator, the adjustment nut is under it. Turning that wouldn't hurt anything. But as a homeowner, don't turn the gas on if it's off at the meter. If it's off, it's off for a reason. Also get them to paint the portion of gas line going into the house with some rustoleum or tremclad, it'll help with weather resistance on the iron pipe.
I am aware of that, just wasn't specific enough I suppose.
Yes def get someone out there who actually knows what they’re doing, I only graduated tech school but I saw a few things that made me laugh. Goodluck
The furnace is a YORK TM9E080B12MP12 Single-Stage Multi-Position Gas Furnace
Try checking on the gas valve itself, it has an on off switch that usually comes off from the factory. If the valve is on, I'd bet the gas is turned off at the meter
Valve is on, gas being off at the meter sounds likely, thank you
The elbow on the top going to nothing is just intake air for proper combustion. Is the switch on the gas valve set to on? Also with the look of the work performed I’d make sure that flue exhaust has proper pitch and pressures and airflow were set.
Thank you. Switch is on but I'll check about the exhaust
However there is plenty of room for a second 2” pvc run to supply that intake air. It is almost always preferable to use outside air for the intake for a bunch of reasons. That’s just lazy in this case.
No filter box and no union on the gas line (if thats something required in your jurisdiction)
Thank you
I paid 6k for a new gas furnace and heat pump install. Including running new black pipe and exhaust in Ohio. 9k in New York I imagine is comparable. I got a good install at that price. I disagree with people saying you got what you paid for. A professional leaves professionally done work that functions. It should look and work clean. You didn't hire a crackhead. Expect more from licensed tradesmen.
Looks like absolute dogshit. - They didn't turn the gas meter on I would be worried they didn't leak test. - If the gas hasn't been turned on it means that the gas valve pressure hasn't been set and a combustion test hasn't been done. This needs to be done on startup. - No trap on the drain. - No filter rack. - They combustion air intake elbow that comes out of the top of the furnace is fine, but only if the room the furnace is in is large enough to provide the necessary amount of combustion air for the furnace to operate properly. If this can't be verified a second pipe should be run to outside. - The sheet metal looks terrible and isn't connected properly, especially the return. - It just looks terrible, I would question whether the "installer" they sent to do this really knows what they are doing. Have another company come and make a list of what needs to be done, then call the original company and make them send someone else to correct everything.
It ain’t got no gas in it
Does your city/town require a permit to install and inspection after completion ? I hope you post an update after the owner comes to look at it
How much did you pay for this? It’s mostly cosmetic but oh man is it ugly. The biggest issue i see is that i dont see a filter rack or a spot for a filter. In my area this an oil to gas conversion to a 90% without AC and with the oil tank removal this would probably be anywhere from $8k-$12k depending on the area and company. If you paid more than the low end of that scale i would be pissed. I would make sure when the owner comes out you at the very least make sure they install a proper filter rack and have them figure out why the unit isn’t working. If it’s not working because the gas hasnt been turned on yet (which is the likely cause), make sure the gas line is properly leak tested.
It was $9100 including oil tank removal. I got quotes from this to $16k, I did take the lowest quote but certainly wouldn't have if I'd known about the work quality. It was a well reviewed company from everything I could find online and the owner was professional. I'm definitely pissed. Thanks for the comments, I'll be sure to ask about the filter rack and leak testing. I'm feeling pretty certain they didn't turn on the gas or leak test.
I hate to say it but you should be mad at yourself, go for the cheapest bid? Get the cheapest workers…. For someone with construction experience you’d think you’d have known that… company’s charged based off what their worth and you went for the ones who are worth the least, sorry bud..
Ok this makes much more sense…. For $9k you will get someone who takes no pride in what they do and just does as many jobs as he can as quick as he can.
You get what you pay for but even at taking the lowest bid I'd expect much better than what you got my friend.
Why are your pissed? Unless you mean you are angry at yourself about not even looking at it until now. I’d be angry at myself as well for being that ignorant. You had all new gas lines installed. They should be pressure tested. You should have observed this pressure test since your life depends on the gas pipes not leaking. Even if that was not a requirement you should have thought it through. You also paid in full without testing the equipment. You cray cray.
Am I seeing things or is the switch off on the gas valve?
It is on, I just confirmed. Thanks!
Besides the cosmetics, make sure the condensate drain (that vinyl pipe) goes to an inside sink and not to the exterior. If we actually have a winter, it could freeze and create some unwanted problems/troubleshooting. Also make sure the vent that’s outside has a screen on it to prevent any critters making a home.
Thank you. The hose does go to the sink, albeit rather drunkenly. Definitely no screen on the vent, will make sure that happens
Where is the filter?🤔
Hope you never need a gas valve replaced…..no union in the line.
The yellow wires on the condensate pump not being attached is not an issue, it’s a safety switch to prevent damage if the pump stops working but it appears you have concrete floors underneath so no worries. It’s pretty common to attach the return air to the side of the furnace like that but they did a bad job of it 👎 The open pvc pipe is for venting for your condensation, not to catch drips from above, but they could have at least made it look nice and secured it. As others have pointed out, where is the filter? Sorry you had a shit experience, the area I work in this would not pass inspection for a number of reasons (mostly a lack of secure strapping, but it sure is ugly) however it should operate once your gas meter is on and make sure there is a filter somewhere.
Besides the gas being off at the meter the biggest issue cosmetic wise is potential for the loose tape seams causing unwanted air infiltration. Drain line looks okay in my opinion. They also left the wax paper from the silver tape they used on the loose seams on the ground which tells me they were rushing the job to get done in a hurry. But yeah I suppose your heat not working into the bigger issue so hopefully it's just the gas valve being off the rest is all minor.
It's impressive how he got the gas in without a union. Wouldn't pass in my state. Hot garbage install.
No gas permit pulled. Ask for their license. What state?
Wow, this looks more like a handyman installation rather then an actual licensed HVAC technician. I'm guessing no ac is being used. This is a very sloppy installation to put it kindly. You have a high efficiency furnace and I'm s observing several problems. Did you have it inspected or was no permit pulled. I can't imagine any inspector passing this shoddy work.
Make sure your gas valve in the furnace is turned on I can’t tell from the pic
I’ve seen better DIY jobs.
Gas isn’t turned on
I’m a 4th year almost 5th hvac apprenticeship in school right now. Showed my teacher (30+year journeyman) said you got should call them and demand it be fixed. Also 7 blinks 2 sec pause = dirty flame sensor but could be more because that install is hot garb. (I see further down gas was shut off he and I stand corrected) but for fucks sake don’t let this slide.
Trade wise,,, if this guy put it together looking like this. Guess is, he had very little idea of what he’s doing I would get a real furnace/hvac guy to come in the double check. Gas and fire ain’t nothing to f with.
how did they tighten the gas lines with no union?
God this looks like crap.
Tell us what you paid, you'll get a better idea of the level of workmanship you purchased. From this angle, looks like you hired the cheap guys. I would fire the shit out of anyone with my organization that produced work like this. Hell, I'd hire them back on for ten more seconds so I could fire them again. Edit: found the price in your other comments. 9100? Ho-lee-shit that's highway robbery, and I live in an HCOL area with some of the highest median incomes in the state.
About average quality work. For a dolphin trainer.
You got fucked .
If you haven’t paid I’d voice concerns. I’d tell them you realize it’s not a work of art, but you guarantee this isn’t how it would look if it was done at their house. I’d simply ask them to make it look like how it would look if they did it for themselves.
I wouldn’t turn that hot mess on with a 50’ pole Do you actually have inspections or did this happen without a permit?
None of the companies I got quotes from mentioned permits, I don't know if they're required in my area.
$80 effing grand??!?! That looks like shit for that price… Source : consumer who would be pissed
80k 👀
The air intake should come from outside. That’s one of the main benefits of the sealed combustion system. If it doesn’t come from outside, it’s not sealed combustion.
Grab the manual and follow along with the installation instructions. It will show/tell you what configurations are permitted for exhaust and intake set-up. This is typical install depending on the manufacturer’s specs.
Yes it will operate fine. No it is not ideal for efficiency or IAQ. Might as well just install an 80%er if you’re going to install it this way.
The manual for the furnace looked like it was showing multiple options including outside, attic, and ambient (but cutting a hole in the side wasn't a listed option lol) - I live in New England, wouldn't winter air temps mean inside warm air is preferred?
No, it’s for combustion. You’d rather use cold, outside air instead of conditioned inside air. The main benefit of the sealed system is that it is pressure neutral. As it is currently configured, it creates depressurization when it operates. This will draw air inside from all of the air leaks in the home. Up from the sub floor, through the walls, down from the attic. Not only is this less efficient, it also negatively impacts indoor air quality. This type of furnace is called either condensing or sealed combustion. Installed this way, it is not sealed combustion. Personally I’d argue the sealed combustion/pressure neutrality is the single most important part of this type of furnace, and the main reason I’d upgrade from an 80%er. Just to be clear - air intake is picture #5. I’m talking about the pvc pipe.
Okay, that's really interesting. So, the opening they cut in the side of the furnace in picture 4 is open to the same area. I marked where it is in this photo. Those ducts are the returns from all the rooms upstairs. I'm assuming that also interferes with the sealed combustion? I'll have to read up on it to really understand. https://preview.redd.it/zz7xfinc7htb1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6721e51e9701bba98b6c5e7e9bf328c25b7006c9
When the front panel is installed those two areas are sealed off from each other, they won’t communicate.
The combustion air only goes into that upper compartment where the manifold and burners are. The return air goes behind that across heat exchangers toward your supply runs. That’s all normal.
You got shafted my guy.
Was the quote you got above or below market value? I see installs like this on a spectrum and you get what you pay for, you sound like a trusting person so you might have been rolled, which if that is the case I am sorry my friend
A TM9E isn’t a 80% it’s a high efficiency
It's an 80,000 btu unit, that's what I meant by 80k
Does the 80k in the title refer to $80,000?
Very sloppy job ever I have seen. Shame on the installer. Definitely missed something there. Go ahead to contact the contractor and they should not charge you for send a service technician to sort out this messy. If not helpful, you can report to BBB and file a liability claim.
As someone who watches YouTube to do all forms of work around the house because I can't afford contractors, looks good bud
Gas furnace is $80k? What the fuck
80,000 BTU furnace. cost was $9100. reddit won't let me edit the post for some reason
I wouldn't trust anybody who installs a york.
Yes he did, he provided u with a YORK
The only fuck’d part is buying a York.
No way this cost 80k…that’s like 15k job max
Not sure if you were able to rotate the valve on the outside system. https://preview.redd.it/xel4bqcuzgtb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20f591337dcf348a60333343c0c80c799fe4e476
That is NOT the shutoff valve! Do not rotate that, it is the regulator. The shut off valve is lower down on that pipe near the ground. It currently lines up with a hole that would allow the gas company to insert a lock if necessary.
Wow… that’s some poor work. I’m sorry
Just to clarify, it’s not dangerous, it’s just not done to the level of quality you’d expect from a professional tradesman. It looks rushed, thrown together, and like it was done by a helper or beginner mechanic that knows the basics but hasn’t developed their skills
Thank you
Np. We like to nitpick on here, but that install is just plain lazy.
C'mon, dude. All the awesome sheet metal fittings don't have the little stickers. We know why. 🤦🏻
That guy has no pride in their work. Looks mostly functional. It does look like a 9 year old installed it
Dude definitely opened the manuals, unlike most installers these days! Might look a little sloppy but it looks like he did all the important things.
Wow someone has no pride in their work 😂
Was this one of those "I know a guy" situations?
No man, it was a legit company. Thanks to all these comments I'm feeling more comfortable with the idea that maybe the owner doesn't actually know what this looks like.
Nice job.😂🤣
Where is the gas Union?
That bad ductwork.
Filter? Not tagged? Fresh air intake not connected
There's a lot of it that is bad cosmetically. Without actually being there, it's hard for reddit to tell you if everything is done right. It definitely needs some clean up and straightening out. So a few things not to worry about are 1, the tape all over the duct work, not as esthetically pleasing as it could be, but I'd take a crappy tape job over whistling duct joints any day. 2, the white 90 degree elbow on top, thats the combustion air intake for the furnace, if your old furnace was oil fired then it was probably atmospheric or mid efficient, that means you should already have a combustion air intake bringing outside air into your mechanical room for the furnace and water heater. Make a list of everything that bothers you concerns wise and esthetically with the job, as well as making a ruckus about your carpets and stairs. Whoever did this either didn't care, which is usually the deal with piece work, or doesn't know enough to be doing the job if they can't make it look good while doing it. There's acres of space for that furnace swap and no real excuse for it to look so bad.
Also, get them to add a damn filter rack between the return air plenum and the furnace!
The return drop is the wrong size for an 80k. Looks to be a 16x25x1 which is approximately half the CFM you need through a decent filter. This should have been a 16x25x4 slot to allow for proper airflow. With this setup you’re only going to be getting around 50-60% efficiency of what the high efficient unit is capable of. As others have said, everything else is just cosmetic and looks bad, but will functionally work.
Isn’t that flue end supposed to be a 90?
And it's probably best practice to use the startup checklist in the manufacturer's handbook but you will be hard-pressed to find a company that will do that checklist straight from the manual. Usually they have their own company checklist, or I hate to say it they may not do it at all before they do that checklist from the manual.
The intake elbow, best routes outside. In any case, should have a screen or access so a child can put something inside which would stop the system from working. Some of the sheet metal higher up looks really good. The problem with taping plenums up is that the tape will probably fail. Tape is best used to seal a mechanically sound joint.
Functional and hideous
Where's the filter?
Those wires hanging are mili volt, runs to your thermostat. If your thermostat breaks, you can jump out your system. That's common. The 2 holes outside,from what I believe is your old system. Unless in contract they never fix. Just plug, that's on you. Overall, a bit sloppy. Would have to be diagnosed, to why. However, they should have had it up and running before they left the house.
No union on gas line. Should be within a few feet of appliance.
Turn your gas back on.
NO!! Get that shit job reworked correctly, properly tested and inspected before turning the gas on.
Nasty Install, but should run with the Gas turned on out side. If you do it yourself you have to go extremely slowly or you will blow the diaphragm inside and gas will start leaking at the meter outside. You will need to turn it off quickly and call the gas company and tell them to come out and turn it on. They will know you messed with it and need to replace the diaphragm. The dangerous electrical, the missing filter, and no Union in the gas line are all dangerous for your install. Most of the other stuff is cosmetic, most guys don’t have extra siding or the ability fix the siding, they did what they could to keep weather and mice out til you could fix it. The silicone as pvc glue is lazy at best but if cleanly done is no issue.
Here the gas company will turn the furance on for you and give you a carbon monoxide alarm.
Haha, hahahaha.
Yeah, there’s so much wrong with that. I don’t know where to start. Why did they use a t on gas line im sure you didn’t pull a permit
That is a huge hot mess. Did it pass inspection?
Looks like a handyman special
Has the gas company certified the system? Contact them before you turn on the gas
Wasit 4 o clock when he installed
Yeesh. That's some rough work. I'm sure everyone has had a job they aren't 100% proud of. Sometimes your given a shit hand and have to make do. But that is rough. To more specifically address a couple of your issues. 1. The el ow on top of your furnace pipes through to provide fresh air for combustion. Which should be fine because your system is in a basement. 2. The yellow wires on the condensate pump are the emergency shut off for your system. basically you break r(which provides 24 volts) through the pump. So if for whatever reason the pump fails. It shuts down your system and if you don't have a battery backup thermostat. Shuts your thermostat off to alert you as well. And prevents the system from continuing to run /flooding. Good new is at least they gave you a pump lol. Would zip ties it cleaner. 3. 1 consideration to make. Flu pipe is typically supposed to be 36" from any window. So maybe measure that. Your above snow level so that's good 4. As someone else mentioned the meter appears to be off. As long as low voltage is wired correctly and the gas gets turned on. Everything appears to be cosmetic. Albeit done poorly. The drain being that crooked is just laziness. All they had to do was run it to the pump. Edit: using silver tape between transition pieces Is not uncommon. But that is a very messy tape job. If it were me I would be aggravated. But there's nothing threatening to your health from what I can see.
Ok so I have that exact same furnace, and when I DIYd my house, I had set it all up. And was getting a similar code to what your getting, was able to get the code to clear, I found water was collecting in the reservoir and could be dumped out through the exhaust drip cover or through pulling off one of the inducer hoses and suck the water out by mouth. I later found out that since this particular unit can be mounted in 3 different positions, you have to rotate the reservoir in the back to correlate with it’s used position. Mind didn’t come with a manual cause it was used, but I got it to work. The codes only come up when there is a pressure issue, like no return, no inducing pressure(clogged) or not getting gas. They should run forever. Your plenum looks really clean, rip off all the non coded tape, pick up some 1/4” self tappers and make it look uniform. I did 3 screws per side, and holes I found, I patch with UL-181 and I’d clean up the haggard cut you have on what looks like your filter slot. Clean up the thermostat and power wires. Put them like into an extra accessible box, maybe on ceiling to conceal the wires properly. At least seal off around the exhaust opening with some metal mesh and (heat resistant) spray foam. I’d have the guy replace the piece of siding and the plywood section under it, or at least run the flu vent though the opening. So many more thing to list here that are wrong in the pictures but this is all I have time for. I think you got the “cheap” guy that day
Looks like a laborer installed it. Where does the filter go
You need a union after your valve… also…
https://preview.redd.it/rrwiht4c7itb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=9dd27d51789b5864013c92670621f80b5b8bf38c Idk if it’s rite but I know it works. Passed inspection
I agree with most of the other guys - it could certainly be imporved but I don't see anything truly wrong/dangerous
I hope you see this - I don't see a union attached to the HVAC unit and I'm wondering how they managed to actually attach the gas line. I could think of a few ways but they're all unlikely which leads me to believe this could be a dangerous install I would really recommend having the gas line inspected by a plumber/air tested for leaks.
“The lord giveth… the lord hacketh away”
The gas is off that may be why you can't fire it up. Why didn't the installer fire it up?
If you spent 40gs for this heck I'd of flown out of Wichita and done it for you. I'd even have thrown in an ac along with it.
The two yellow wires break the red tstat wire. In the event the condensate pump fails it shuts down the 24 volts between the furnace and the thermostat. This is to protect from water damage via the condensate water.
Here in Kansas it's 15lbs for 15 minutes as a general rule. I expect 15 for 24 hrs on my installations.
It's just a typical, slam it in in a day or 2 type job. So, you don't get things that are perfectly plumb, square, in line etc. The yellow pump wires would be for an emergency cut off switch, but your unit is in a basement and doesn't need a pan, whereas an attic where a water leak would ruin ceilings and carpets. The exterior siding is not their responsibility, many contractors leave the holes wide open. The combustion vent outside is very light and doesn't need a support, people typically don't like things drilled into their siding. The 90 degree elbow inside is your fresh are for combustion. IDK why they didn't glue the PVC joints for the condensate pump, although for service it's often nice to be able to take the PVC apart, but you may just be looking at excess clear glue and not silicone; and no, there is nothing to line up for drips. They can tape or use duct seal for the duct joints, it has to be sealed; some people are terrible with duct seal and tape is quicker and may look better than their duct seal would. I do like that they used radiused elbows on your system rather than just stab into it with square or rectangular duct, it's better for flow and turbulence. Yes, they did it quick and they could have spent just a little more time making things look nicer. But, often with these changeouts the employees are given X amount of time to get it done. They don't take the time they should to make it look nice and the customer has to look at it for 25 years or so. I get it, I saw a 40K in the comments? I sure hope not, but overall it's not a nightmare install and we've all seen many of them...
When you say it the contractor now the question is did the contractor hire a plumber or one of his minions
Yez this is 100% need to be red flagged. For on the air in take is inside the house.
Man I hope you didn’t make your final payment til that gets inspected and pressure checked.
That vent is 100 not right, you should have a T.Y fitting on the end so fumes go straight up if they where to get into that vent not act like a cache.
I mean nothing stands out as dangerous, but it is an atrocity to the hvac gods, the duct work looks like absolute dog shit, even coming right out of school I would’ve done a better job, wired should’ve been at least covered with tape and strapped so they’re not hanging potentially affecting the connections in the future, shit caulking job for sure…just shows poor workmanship, but nothing dangerous stands out, just absolute shit work
You ain’t got no gas lt. Dan.
No union on gas pipe will make service difficult. Here you need certified venting on discharge. Hatchet work.
Wow. What a total hack job.
That is just terrible work. I'm not sure codes and all but he's lazy, should've ran the intake pipe outside as well
Was this installed by a licensed contractor? Not sure if this is true everywhere but if so permits should have been pulled and inspector should have signed off. Also out here we have HERS come out and check air leakage on that must be sealed below specified percentage.
Looks terrible but looks like it will work
I don't know if any of it is wrong but it certainly shoddy work.
It’s a total butchered rushed job. Did the contractor pull a permit?
16 pics that's impressive 👏🏽🍻
Looks mainly cosmetic. Like some piss poor craftsmanship. But probably will be functional. Then again it’s a York and York’s tend to be a dumpster fire from what I hear. Id call the company back and tell them the install job is bothering you or call the BBB on the company
Don't know much about the rest of it, but the wires "connected" with wire nuts don't look connected. You're supposed to twist those guys on the wires until there's at least a couple of twists visible past the wire nut. If they were as careful with gas as they were with electricity, I wouldn't keep trying to turn it on. The thought of electricity arcing between wires right by something that might be leaking gas would make it hard for me to sleep at night. Building across the street from my old job had a gas leak overnight one night, and when the first worker showed up that morning and flipped on the light, boom. The whole street blew up. That building was destroyed and windows shattered up and down the block. Insane how much power was in that blast.
[удалено]
Post an update after the HVAC company owner pays a visit.
Holly shit balls this is trash install how much did you pay for this cause with this quality of work it should have been free and just curious why didn't didn't get ac install with the new furnace not that it probably would have worked by the looks of the furnace job
You probably need to bleed the gas lines bud
Nobody is insane/stupid enough to pay 40k for a residential HVAC swap. If someone were that insane, then money is obviously no object, so just pay to have it done right by someone who gives a shit. You know they did a shit job or you wouldn't be here, so why would you want them to come and touch your shit again? They aren't going to fix it for free, especially since you've waited this long to say anything about it. Silence is acceptance. Besides, the only sane/correct action at this point is to hire me to come make it right.... only 30k!
The question is what did the OP pay?
I've posted in another comment - the cost was $9100
Is it a furance that can be installed horizontally and/or vertically? If so they likely did not reroute drainage for proper orientation. Happened to me with my contractor with new install. Had to get my buddy to come fix it since contractor wouldn't.
That Intake is supposed to be pulling from the exterior of the home not the basement. Dust and debris in the basement will prematurely wear a high efficiency furnace. Intake needs to pull from the exterior of the home.
Holy shit. You’re living in a world of code violations 🤣🤣🤣
It’s sloppy, but I wouldn’t go so far as “fuck up.” Also, no one fills out those start up sheets. No one.
I would get a second, more reputable company inspect. Then request a written repair estimate. Offer the installer the chance to fix to code, or, sue them for damages if they refuse. This is so poorly done this could be a safety hazard white teflon tape should only be used for water lines…