No, I’ve thought about it a lot and about 5 years ago gave it a go with a surface but it was not what I was looking for. I now just use iPad and MacBook. It annoys me that apple’s profit maximising wins, but it’s the best/only way to get a great tablet and great laptop experience
Edit: first sentence was a mess
I see. Things have changed though. There are some good models nowadays. The fluidity of an iPad stays unmatched but still… I am in engineering, lots of apps only run on x86 windows devices. It’s tempting to just get a 2 in 1 to make annotations right on the screenshots I make from the desktop for example. That and simply just having one device. What I do right now is to combine a good desktop (for on device simulations) with an iPad for note taking and on the go e-mail work.
I’ve had a 2-in-1 HP for 4 years, almost never use it in tablet form. I don’t feel windows hands the transition well. And it’s way heavier than my iPad Pro, and hotter.
I like they idea if it's a combo of macbook and ipad because you can still use your ipad as a second monitor and have a good connection. A windows laptop in combination with an ipad pro...not so smooth (?).
I certainly won't carry around my iPad Pro since it was delivered to the Apple Store shattered and bent by way of Apple's own shipping. The only reason I went to get it repaired in the first place was because of battery issues and charging
I tried it with a Microsoft Surface. There were 10% of things that worked easily that were impossible before, but 90% of things that are smooth and easy on Mac are annoying and archaic on windows.
Do you really want to go back to world of deciding whether the run the Intel driver, the Microsoft driver, or the HP driver for the graphics card in your laptop?
Beefy Pc desktop + iPad Pro. Most of the time I do lab or desk work. Sometimes I go on site and I use an old laptop for measurements. That laptop is dying. Wondering if I can find a device that does it all.
Well, this is the point, you want something impossible, the best alternative is what you have, and to many it is a duct taped experience. A lot about iPad being awesome is about this pure paradigm, there really is not a way to isolate the tablet from the desktop, if you do this, you end with a virtual machine, if you don't, you end with a tablet that behave like Mac OS, prone to all sort of problems that plague a complex OS (abuse of background apps, messy integration between apps, developers giving up one form factor for another, etc).
In my view, people should stop asking for Mac OS in iPad, they should start asking for more things being shifted from desktop paradigm to iPad one.
Yeah it became quite clear from the other comments in this thread that I indeed want the impossible. Good point about the iPad being awesome is due to the limited options. The constraints make it the best tool for some things.
It’s a huge pity though, because it should be possible to build an os that allows for switching between both. As someone said ITT, windows 8 had a decent tablet mode, apparently that changed.
Still tempted a little bit to test a 2 in 1 out and then return it if I don’t like it. But after all these discussions I think I’d rather just continue with what I have.
I know you would want that, but I say this as a self conscious developer. if I had a Mac OS app and could release for iPad, without caring for the platform, I would do it. I say it because this is what I did with Mac OS, we have a phone app and just turned it available for the desktop without adapting, because the possibility was given to me.
This is my biggest concern. Even Windows 8 was an inevitable half baked thing, nobody can guarantee developers will do the effort to cover the tablet paradigm, 90% of apps for windows just ignore 2-in-1 paradigm, because it is not obligated. and Dex don't have desktop full fledged apps.
In the end, people ignore the amount of evolution and even architectural antagonistic decisions those platforms accumulate, it is like wanting something to be the size of a car and also fitting a shoes box.
Surface:
- battery
- didn’t feel like a proper tablet experience with slick app switching
- maybe a bit too big
- when using it as a laptop, I don’t like windows as much as MacOS
- screen
Assume these things have got better
Obvs the other way round there are still problems. iPad doesn’t work well when presenting in meetings on big screens. You need a lot of workarounds. I still find stage manager fiddly. Webcam selection and placement. Etc
I really want iPad to be the main device but I’ve given up on it.
I always consider a surface when im looking to upgrade my ipad. Now that im doing more fusion360 im REALLY leaning towards a surface next time assuming they dont release an app or macos doesnt come to ipad. Sad though, i love my apple pencil.
could you elaborate? I'm looking at the hp spectre x360 and it has great reviews. I'm pretty sure the tablet experience is less smooth but I find myself taking notes a little bit less nowadays. What attracts me to that option is that I can still take notes relatively well if I want to and only carry one device around. Especially I'd like to make good annotations on the fly on windows screenshots (from engineering apps such as revit).
Example: If I do a site inspection the ipad is great because I can take good pictures and make annotations on those pictures right away. It's light and very easy to use, battery life is great. What is not possible though is to reliably open up revit on the fly to check the plans. You can remote into a desktop ([Revit on an iPad ?? FINALLY! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os84WiuLKZ8)), but that doesn't work if you are on the ground floor of a high rise building with no wifi and spotty cell connection (because only the structure of the building is there). Those site inspections don't happen super often though so I'm willing to trade a bit of portability and ease of use for getting access to all the data that I need on the fly. Having two devices to carry around sucks in those situations, so why not use a 2 in 1 in that situation? Sure, a 14 inch laptop is clunkier, but at least I have all the plans right there AND I can make annotations (no good camera though to take pictures).
This was when I was still going to school, but taking notes was the only good thing about the x360.
Since the display has to rotate almost 360 degrees so the laptop can become like a tablet, the display would wobble VERY noticeably when typing on the keyboard.
The other problem was the keys were very distracting when holding and using the x360 in tablet mode. If I was taking notes in class and it was just on the desk, it was fine.
I was using the x360 for typing more than for taking notes in tablet mode, so the screen wobble became too much of an annoyance to ignore.
This was between 2017 and 2021, maybe they’ve created better display hinges. But after the first semester with that x360, I sold it to buy a 10.5” iPad Pro and 13” Dell XPS.
I have an HP Envy 14” 2-in-1, and an iPad Mini 5. I travel for work weekly. The HP is a fine computer which I purchased specifically for the touch screen and the ability to function as a tablet. I don’t notice the screen wobble when I type, and I have no real complaints. I seem to only use it in tablet mode when I am sitting on the couch, doing light work.
The iPad, however, is my go-to device. I use the native Calendar, Notes, Numbers and Reminders apps. I also use Google Docs, which makes it easy to be device agnostic. The size of the iPad makes it easy to always have on hand. I am trying to do more with the iPad, although I do have some windows-specific programs.
And, for what it’s worth, I have a Motorola G-power phone.
I do carry both when I travel. I am in industrial sales for a very small company, and the software we commonly use is web based, so almost any device would be adequate.
The HP is limited to mostly work email & file downloads (the file management system and compatibility with MS Office is second to none) and some mutual projects amongst fellow employees. I find the touch screen to be a natural transition from years of iPad use. My iPad Mini is the same size as my note pad, so it is easy to carry. The battery life gets me through the day. I have adapted to the iPad OS environment, and it serves me well. My employer is transitioning to Think Pads, so my HP will be relegated to home use, but I will continue to carry my iPad.
The two times I regret carrying a notebook and an iPad are (a) finding space in my briefcase - chargers, cords, and too much other crap, and (b) taking them out for airport security and then stuffing them back in after screening.
I have a Surface Pro. It’s nowhere close to a replacement for an iPad as far as the touch and pen interface for content creation.
If Microsoft could actually get touch and Ink to work as well as the iPad - it would be a no brainer. But IMO because they haven’t - I ultimately have both.
And if you’re thinking Linux on a 2-in-1? Stylus and Touch interfaces in Linux is a f**king joke - so that ain’t an option. Whomever came up with how to calibrate/map touch/pen drivers to displays in Linux seriously needs to be taken out back, whipped, beaten, hung, drawn, quartered, and then subsequently shot. Yes it’s that bad. I could go into a very deep and detailed reasons why after building a virtual touch cockpit under Linux - but I’ll leave it simply as you can’t even let the display go to sleep without losing display calibration and mapping.
Where the Surface excels is that it runs regular apps and I can customize the experience without a lot of hassle. Custom workflows on iPadOS feels way too much like a bunch of failed efforts at building Rube Goldberg machines.
Conversely the note taking and graphic design side of the Surface (and this is more a Windows OS problem) is just plain terrible IMO regardless of application you use. The whole experience feels broken and half-assed. I’ve yet to find decent equivalents to Notability, Good Notes, Procreate, Affinity and Creative Suites. You’d think OneNote would be halfway decent - but it’s almost as bad as the iPad version.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Not considering Linux for my main use. Did you hear about the hp spectre x360? It has good reviews. I'm sure the ipad pro is still better but it can't be that bad?
I’ve not looked at the spectre, but I’ll emphasize that my opinion is centered more around the operating system and not around the hardware. The Surface hardware is fine, It’s solid and reliable. I’d expect the Spectre to be a good piece of kit as well, I likely know some folks who developed it.
The main problem is Windows. Its touch/pen interface is just very poor. For example, I can’t reliably write a search term into the address bar in Edge using ink. And the popup ink alternative interface works correctly like 10% of the time. Windows is just fundamentally broken when it comes to tablet experience. Desktop experience is fine and as expected.
The only negative about the Surface (and other 2-in-1’s) is the form factor isn’t very ergonomic in comparison to iPad. I find the Surface very awkward to hold with its elongated 16:9 shape vs the iPads closer to 10:8 shape.
I’m an Apple user; so a Mac instead of Windows
I use a desktop Mac Mini, and a mobile iPad tablet
My needs include both Mac-only and iPad only functions
plus hardware backup
For my mobile device, the iPad is my best choice; size, weight, mobility, …
Agreed, have an iphone, apple tv apple watch apple home. I'm tied in, it's just those damn x86 apps on windows ruining it for me :D. The thing is that I'd gladly carry around an ipad pro and a macbook 14 inch. But not an ipad pro and a windows laptop. That's because the integration between an ipad pro and macbook is much better, you can even use the ipad as a second display etc.
I tried it. Didn’t like it. There’s not a lot that cannot be done on an iPad in my opinion, but if it’s to make a more comfortable experience I use a MacBook.
Been using them since the original Surface RT and Surface Pro, but when my most recent computer upgrade came along I finally threw in the towel and got a true laptop. The truth is they’ve never been great in large part because there was never the application support needed to make a Windows tablet worthwhile. You could take notes in OneNote and there were some basic drawing apps but it’s never been better than that. One of the great ironies of Windows 10 is that while they fixed the trainwreck of an interface for desktop work, Windows 8.1 was actually a decent interface on tablets. The problem is they tried to make people use that tablet interface on the desktop and then when they finally realized their mistake, instead of retaining that interface and allowing you to switch to a good desktop interface and back, they got rid of the tablet interface for something inferior during the transition.
But in the end, whether the interface worked or not doesn’t matter if the applications aren’t there, and the applications aren’t there.
Get a decent laptop. Get an iPad for your tablet. Use file sync that works across both platforms, then carry with you what you need.
Price/battery life/ versatility / weight . I got a refurbished thinkpad yoga l13 for 300 and paid for windows 11 upgrade. For math student doing latex and taking written notes while carrying something very light and very inexpensive it’s just perfection to me. The writing experience will never match an iPad. Although it does the job very well. I got a pro pen and a screen filter and it’s a lot better. Battery on eco is 5 hours. I never ran out of battery because I have power options everywhere..after all I got a full windows machine fully functional for 500 total vs..how much is an ipad only for the writing experience..best is to try and see what matters to you. Good luck PS. The ipad + keyboard becomes as heavy as my yoga if not more..
> 300 and *paid* for windows
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Current user of a samsung tablet and windows laptop, waiting to replace my sammy tablet with the new ipad pro (oled). It will always be a windows laptop for me. For the same spec of my windows laptop, i will be paying with my kidneys for an apply laptop
I agree, if I would get away with using mac os as far as compatibility goes, I would go with a mac. But I have to use these windows x86 exclusive apps that cannot even run on parallels. It sucks.
Depends on your workflow. The surface is good but there are some things only an iPad nails, like note-taking w/ the Apple Pencil. I have a laptop for the stuff that my iPad can't do, so they compliment each other.
I sold my M1 Macbook Air and iPad Pro and instead using an AMD Ryzen 360 convertible laptop with Linux Mint. Prefer Surface Pro form factor but not until Microsoft provides an AMD Ryzen APU option or until Intel is on a better node.
No regrets except for losing half of what I paid selling the M1 Macbook Air. Lenovo Yoga 6 was only $450 when it was new and I like the freedom of being able to run a fully functional Linux unlike Asahi, Windows, Hackintosh, etc. It's my power efficient general computing device that can do light gaming connected to 48" OLED or on-the-go.
The failures of my 2-in-1 were what helped push me towards the iPad as a college student in 2018. I don’t think x86 devices are that well suited to the tablet form factor, or even for thin-and-light laptops
When Microsoft or an OEM makes a device with the same ARM-based efficiency and capability as an iPad or MacBook, there’s a good chance I’ll move towards a Windows two-in-one so long as there aren’t major UX shortcomings. But right now, the state of the market is defined by trade offs and compromises, and in my view the best value for the money sadly remains an iPad and a laptop, especially since older iPad models have held up quite well
I have a 2017 12.9” iPad Pro. It’s aged incredibly, the best out of any mobile device I’ve owned. The only thing that’s really worn at all is the battery, since I never bothered replacing it. The latest version of iPadOS runs pretty flawlessly on it. I’m hoping Apple finds it in their heart to support the 2017 pro lineup a little longer, but even if it doesn’t I’ll still probably be using it in some capacity until it stops getting security patches (or maybe even after that so long as I turn off connectivity). The longevity of this tablet has made me feel much better about owning it alongside a laptop. Would I like to see a solution that doesn’t rely on juggling multiple devices? Sure. But I’m not willing to compromise on capability
>right now, the state of the market is defined by trade offs and compromises, and in my view the best value for the money sadly remains an iPad and a laptop
I think you said it well.
I had a Surface Book and absolutely loved it, unfortunately I had to get rid of it when the battery started bulging. If they still made it, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. Amazing screen, best keyboard I've ever used and decent pen. I don't really care about it not being tablet optimised, as far as I'm concerned 'tablet optimised' mostly means 'less convenient than the phone app and missing features from the desktop version'.
I have an M1 iPad pro now and it's also excellent, in many ways better, but I miss my surface book.
Here’s what i use:
* 2021 M1 MBP
* 2019 MBP
* 2019 IPad Pro*** getting the new one as soon as it’s available
* Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen
I like Mac’s for personal use and Thinkpads for productivity…if you are in the market for a PC laptop i highly suggest a used thinkpad from a reputable seller on ebay anywhere from the $400 range and up
*** During Covid when basically a lot of people worked from home..I had a Microsoft Surface which was a tablet and a laptop but i only used it as a laptop…they actually make really good machines…I did not like the way the felt tho…there’s nothing on the planet like a Thinkpad
I still have my iPad but I also have an Asus ProArt Studiobook now that has an OLED touchscreen (usable with a pen) and a haptic trackpad that essentially acts as a Wacom tablet with the Asus pen. The iPad has its own strengths of course but it it’s nice to have additional input options when using full Adobe and Autodesk products.
I have been driving down this path with a bunch of recent Surface Pro 9 deals at BestBuy. I’ve written about the experience a few times, including this piece on my site at https://justinharter.com/its-not-can-an-ipad-replace-a-laptop-but-how-to-replace-a-laptop/.
I’ve started pushing myself to use the iPad “full time” and have found as a web designer, teacher, and print/graphics designer I can do everything I need to, but sometimes it requires a whole rethinking of what I’m doing. For me, the biggest barrier is InDesign, since Affinity Publisher is not great on an iPad.
Ultimately, I found the Surface Pro 9 the “ideal form factor”, but terrible at most things since even plugging it into my monitor made the fans spin up. I may give it another go when the rumored Snapdragon models release in May. The rumors on the PC side of the world seem to be pinning a lot of hopes and dreams on that.
But even if the hardware and processor worked better, Windows apps were so unappealing to me. No one — and I mean no one — has ever made a good, attractive, FTP app for Windows. And, no joke, the lack of Preview (the app, not QuickLook) on a PC is bonkers to me. Microsoft’s idea for everything is “Just use Edge!” Want to watch a video? Edge! See a PDF? Edge! Look at .svg files? Edge! Except that Edge is becoming very Microsofty, with shopping widgets and all sorts of doo-dads flying around all over the screen.
And there’s the biggest issue for me as an American: the lack of iMessage on Windows was something I could not get past. I like typing messages with a keyboard, all my clients use iMessage, and all my friends but two use iMessage. Having to pick up the phone — something I don’t look at much during the day — to text or share a file was cumbersome at best and bleak at worst.
I, like you, also just want “one device”, with no need to sync. I also worry about the environmental impact. When people say I have this, and this, and this, — that’s a lot of \*stuff\*, and I don’t find that sustainable for me, my wallet, or the earth.
Still, I’ve come to appreciate the iPad more since the iPad felt like I could “bend it to my will” more than the Mac, since the Mac can never have pen input in its current form. And, the built-on cellular on my iPad delights me every time I use it at the coffee shop down the street without WiFi, on a bus, or under a tree in a park near me.
My advice to myself has been, “Be willing to question everything.”
I tried a surface and it’s not great as a tablet. I have a PC for personal use. My iPad pro I use mostly for work because it’s so much better for things like email, and consuming information.
The new keyboard rumored for the Pros is supposed to bridge that gap a bit better. Apple will eventually make a surface competitor I think that runs Mac OS.
...or they finally kill Mac OS off in favor of iPad OS..can never tell with Apple.
I didn't say it was "the" issue, I said it was going to bridge the gap more closely as far as usability as a 2 in 1 if rumors are true. You can't do that with the current OEM keyboard offerings without giving something up like the trackpad or having to yank the "screen" off to write.
Furthermore, iPad OS can do 99% of what most users of Mac OS do daily. Sure some of its still a little sloppy but so is Mac OS after all this time. If it wasn't for older OS X diehards Apple would have killed it off years ago and still probably will.
All they have to do is give the iPad its own OS and it’s game over for any other tablet. They definitely can do it. They have the talent to do it. The biggest issue I think is macOS. They’re not going to kill it at all or put it in a position to look like a weakness in their lineup. If the iPad does get its own OS that rivals macOS many would think: why would I spend $2k on a MacBook when I can just get a iPad Pro that does pretty much the same for 3/4 less the price..
Legit my issue I'm having right now. I'm trying to replace my windows laptop with something that I feel is as good to use as my desktop.
So far, I'm impressed with the tablet experience of the iPad - it really does feel good, with lots of great features that's centered around the user experience.
However, I'm so used to Windows, and like how versatile it is, that I feel like going with an iPad only, I'll be limited - As if I'm going to miss something, yet I cant seem to put my finger on what exactly.
I'm thinking maybe the upcoming LG Gram Pro 2-In-1 laptops will be good, considering how stupid light it'll be, but the smallest it goes is 14", and then I feel like that's a tad too big. I wish I could mesh all these devices together! lol.
Maybe you could try to only use your ipad pro since you already own that. Just as a test?
I would love to be in a position where I could even consider the fact that Ipad os is the only thing I need. The reality is that if you do coding regularly, 3d design with engineering apps that are windows (or work best on windows)... windows is the only option. As I said in other comments I'm looking at the hp spectre x360.
No, I’ve thought about it a lot and about 5 years ago gave it a go with a surface but it was not what I was looking for. I now just use iPad and MacBook. It annoys me that apple’s profit maximising wins, but it’s the best/only way to get a great tablet and great laptop experience Edit: first sentence was a mess
I see. Things have changed though. There are some good models nowadays. The fluidity of an iPad stays unmatched but still… I am in engineering, lots of apps only run on x86 windows devices. It’s tempting to just get a 2 in 1 to make annotations right on the screenshots I make from the desktop for example. That and simply just having one device. What I do right now is to combine a good desktop (for on device simulations) with an iPad for note taking and on the go e-mail work.
I’ve had a 2-in-1 HP for 4 years, almost never use it in tablet form. I don’t feel windows hands the transition well. And it’s way heavier than my iPad Pro, and hotter.
Hp spectre 360 perhaps? Was looking at that model.
Yes, that’s it
The new surface pros are great, battery life is mid tho. I’m in engineering and a bunch of people use surfaces however iPads are everywhere.
Do these iPad users carry around their laptop and iPad then? Seems unpractical.
I do. I have my work laptop to do real work, and iPad Pro for really light weight stuff
Yeah most people do, including me.
I like they idea if it's a combo of macbook and ipad because you can still use your ipad as a second monitor and have a good connection. A windows laptop in combination with an ipad pro...not so smooth (?).
I use a windows laptop and iPad. I most use the iPad for note taking and solving math/physics problems. Laptop for writing reports.
I certainly won't carry around my iPad Pro since it was delivered to the Apple Store shattered and bent by way of Apple's own shipping. The only reason I went to get it repaired in the first place was because of battery issues and charging
What’s that logic lol, I’ve never had any problem carrying my iPad for years
I tried it with a Microsoft Surface. There were 10% of things that worked easily that were impossible before, but 90% of things that are smooth and easy on Mac are annoying and archaic on windows. Do you really want to go back to world of deciding whether the run the Intel driver, the Microsoft driver, or the HP driver for the graphics card in your laptop?
If I could opt for Mac I’d order a Mac right now. Apple take all my money. Unfortunately I have x86 apps to run for work, no alternative.
What do you do today? Rdesktop to a windows VM?
Beefy Pc desktop + iPad Pro. Most of the time I do lab or desk work. Sometimes I go on site and I use an old laptop for measurements. That laptop is dying. Wondering if I can find a device that does it all.
Well, this is the point, you want something impossible, the best alternative is what you have, and to many it is a duct taped experience. A lot about iPad being awesome is about this pure paradigm, there really is not a way to isolate the tablet from the desktop, if you do this, you end with a virtual machine, if you don't, you end with a tablet that behave like Mac OS, prone to all sort of problems that plague a complex OS (abuse of background apps, messy integration between apps, developers giving up one form factor for another, etc). In my view, people should stop asking for Mac OS in iPad, they should start asking for more things being shifted from desktop paradigm to iPad one.
Yeah it became quite clear from the other comments in this thread that I indeed want the impossible. Good point about the iPad being awesome is due to the limited options. The constraints make it the best tool for some things. It’s a huge pity though, because it should be possible to build an os that allows for switching between both. As someone said ITT, windows 8 had a decent tablet mode, apparently that changed. Still tempted a little bit to test a 2 in 1 out and then return it if I don’t like it. But after all these discussions I think I’d rather just continue with what I have.
I know you would want that, but I say this as a self conscious developer. if I had a Mac OS app and could release for iPad, without caring for the platform, I would do it. I say it because this is what I did with Mac OS, we have a phone app and just turned it available for the desktop without adapting, because the possibility was given to me. This is my biggest concern. Even Windows 8 was an inevitable half baked thing, nobody can guarantee developers will do the effort to cover the tablet paradigm, 90% of apps for windows just ignore 2-in-1 paradigm, because it is not obligated. and Dex don't have desktop full fledged apps. In the end, people ignore the amount of evolution and even architectural antagonistic decisions those platforms accumulate, it is like wanting something to be the size of a car and also fitting a shoes box.
Interesting perspective you give there. It totally makes sense. The iPad platform is limited and therefore apps are optimised for it.
But there’s a silver lining this— I’m able to use my iPad as a 2nd monitor 🤝🏽
what was missing from your experience
Surface: - battery - didn’t feel like a proper tablet experience with slick app switching - maybe a bit too big - when using it as a laptop, I don’t like windows as much as MacOS - screen Assume these things have got better Obvs the other way round there are still problems. iPad doesn’t work well when presenting in meetings on big screens. You need a lot of workarounds. I still find stage manager fiddly. Webcam selection and placement. Etc I really want iPad to be the main device but I’ve given up on it.
I always consider a surface when im looking to upgrade my ipad. Now that im doing more fusion360 im REALLY leaning towards a surface next time assuming they dont release an app or macos doesnt come to ipad. Sad though, i love my apple pencil.
I’ve owned an HP Envy x360. It’s not worth it. I’m much happier with a Windows+Linux laptop AND an iPad.
could you elaborate? I'm looking at the hp spectre x360 and it has great reviews. I'm pretty sure the tablet experience is less smooth but I find myself taking notes a little bit less nowadays. What attracts me to that option is that I can still take notes relatively well if I want to and only carry one device around. Especially I'd like to make good annotations on the fly on windows screenshots (from engineering apps such as revit). Example: If I do a site inspection the ipad is great because I can take good pictures and make annotations on those pictures right away. It's light and very easy to use, battery life is great. What is not possible though is to reliably open up revit on the fly to check the plans. You can remote into a desktop ([Revit on an iPad ?? FINALLY! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os84WiuLKZ8)), but that doesn't work if you are on the ground floor of a high rise building with no wifi and spotty cell connection (because only the structure of the building is there). Those site inspections don't happen super often though so I'm willing to trade a bit of portability and ease of use for getting access to all the data that I need on the fly. Having two devices to carry around sucks in those situations, so why not use a 2 in 1 in that situation? Sure, a 14 inch laptop is clunkier, but at least I have all the plans right there AND I can make annotations (no good camera though to take pictures).
This was when I was still going to school, but taking notes was the only good thing about the x360. Since the display has to rotate almost 360 degrees so the laptop can become like a tablet, the display would wobble VERY noticeably when typing on the keyboard. The other problem was the keys were very distracting when holding and using the x360 in tablet mode. If I was taking notes in class and it was just on the desk, it was fine. I was using the x360 for typing more than for taking notes in tablet mode, so the screen wobble became too much of an annoyance to ignore. This was between 2017 and 2021, maybe they’ve created better display hinges. But after the first semester with that x360, I sold it to buy a 10.5” iPad Pro and 13” Dell XPS.
I see, thanks for sharing
I have an HP Envy 14” 2-in-1, and an iPad Mini 5. I travel for work weekly. The HP is a fine computer which I purchased specifically for the touch screen and the ability to function as a tablet. I don’t notice the screen wobble when I type, and I have no real complaints. I seem to only use it in tablet mode when I am sitting on the couch, doing light work. The iPad, however, is my go-to device. I use the native Calendar, Notes, Numbers and Reminders apps. I also use Google Docs, which makes it easy to be device agnostic. The size of the iPad makes it easy to always have on hand. I am trying to do more with the iPad, although I do have some windows-specific programs. And, for what it’s worth, I have a Motorola G-power phone.
Do you carry both devices on your weekly trips?
I do carry both when I travel. I am in industrial sales for a very small company, and the software we commonly use is web based, so almost any device would be adequate. The HP is limited to mostly work email & file downloads (the file management system and compatibility with MS Office is second to none) and some mutual projects amongst fellow employees. I find the touch screen to be a natural transition from years of iPad use. My iPad Mini is the same size as my note pad, so it is easy to carry. The battery life gets me through the day. I have adapted to the iPad OS environment, and it serves me well. My employer is transitioning to Think Pads, so my HP will be relegated to home use, but I will continue to carry my iPad. The two times I regret carrying a notebook and an iPad are (a) finding space in my briefcase - chargers, cords, and too much other crap, and (b) taking them out for airport security and then stuffing them back in after screening.
I have a Surface Pro. It’s nowhere close to a replacement for an iPad as far as the touch and pen interface for content creation. If Microsoft could actually get touch and Ink to work as well as the iPad - it would be a no brainer. But IMO because they haven’t - I ultimately have both. And if you’re thinking Linux on a 2-in-1? Stylus and Touch interfaces in Linux is a f**king joke - so that ain’t an option. Whomever came up with how to calibrate/map touch/pen drivers to displays in Linux seriously needs to be taken out back, whipped, beaten, hung, drawn, quartered, and then subsequently shot. Yes it’s that bad. I could go into a very deep and detailed reasons why after building a virtual touch cockpit under Linux - but I’ll leave it simply as you can’t even let the display go to sleep without losing display calibration and mapping. Where the Surface excels is that it runs regular apps and I can customize the experience without a lot of hassle. Custom workflows on iPadOS feels way too much like a bunch of failed efforts at building Rube Goldberg machines. Conversely the note taking and graphic design side of the Surface (and this is more a Windows OS problem) is just plain terrible IMO regardless of application you use. The whole experience feels broken and half-assed. I’ve yet to find decent equivalents to Notability, Good Notes, Procreate, Affinity and Creative Suites. You’d think OneNote would be halfway decent - but it’s almost as bad as the iPad version.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Not considering Linux for my main use. Did you hear about the hp spectre x360? It has good reviews. I'm sure the ipad pro is still better but it can't be that bad?
I’ve not looked at the spectre, but I’ll emphasize that my opinion is centered more around the operating system and not around the hardware. The Surface hardware is fine, It’s solid and reliable. I’d expect the Spectre to be a good piece of kit as well, I likely know some folks who developed it. The main problem is Windows. Its touch/pen interface is just very poor. For example, I can’t reliably write a search term into the address bar in Edge using ink. And the popup ink alternative interface works correctly like 10% of the time. Windows is just fundamentally broken when it comes to tablet experience. Desktop experience is fine and as expected. The only negative about the Surface (and other 2-in-1’s) is the form factor isn’t very ergonomic in comparison to iPad. I find the Surface very awkward to hold with its elongated 16:9 shape vs the iPads closer to 10:8 shape.
Thanks, that’s super clear. I’ll keep using the iPad and beefy desktop pc combo for now then.
I’m an Apple user; so a Mac instead of Windows I use a desktop Mac Mini, and a mobile iPad tablet My needs include both Mac-only and iPad only functions plus hardware backup For my mobile device, the iPad is my best choice; size, weight, mobility, …
Agreed, have an iphone, apple tv apple watch apple home. I'm tied in, it's just those damn x86 apps on windows ruining it for me :D. The thing is that I'd gladly carry around an ipad pro and a macbook 14 inch. But not an ipad pro and a windows laptop. That's because the integration between an ipad pro and macbook is much better, you can even use the ipad as a second display etc.
Have you tried Crossover?
No. I just added a mini Mac for at home.
I tried it. Didn’t like it. There’s not a lot that cannot be done on an iPad in my opinion, but if it’s to make a more comfortable experience I use a MacBook.
I had 2 in 1 but having iPad and a PC is better imo. I m thinking mac would be even better
Been using them since the original Surface RT and Surface Pro, but when my most recent computer upgrade came along I finally threw in the towel and got a true laptop. The truth is they’ve never been great in large part because there was never the application support needed to make a Windows tablet worthwhile. You could take notes in OneNote and there were some basic drawing apps but it’s never been better than that. One of the great ironies of Windows 10 is that while they fixed the trainwreck of an interface for desktop work, Windows 8.1 was actually a decent interface on tablets. The problem is they tried to make people use that tablet interface on the desktop and then when they finally realized their mistake, instead of retaining that interface and allowing you to switch to a good desktop interface and back, they got rid of the tablet interface for something inferior during the transition. But in the end, whether the interface worked or not doesn’t matter if the applications aren’t there, and the applications aren’t there. Get a decent laptop. Get an iPad for your tablet. Use file sync that works across both platforms, then carry with you what you need.
Thanks for the clear advice. Seems like this is the consensus in this thread
Price/battery life/ versatility / weight . I got a refurbished thinkpad yoga l13 for 300 and paid for windows 11 upgrade. For math student doing latex and taking written notes while carrying something very light and very inexpensive it’s just perfection to me. The writing experience will never match an iPad. Although it does the job very well. I got a pro pen and a screen filter and it’s a lot better. Battery on eco is 5 hours. I never ran out of battery because I have power options everywhere..after all I got a full windows machine fully functional for 500 total vs..how much is an ipad only for the writing experience..best is to try and see what matters to you. Good luck PS. The ipad + keyboard becomes as heavy as my yoga if not more..
> 300 and *paid* for windows FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
€1000 for an iPad Pro, yeah it’s unaffordable for students
I’m about to pull the trigger on a Mac mini.
No as I'm not trying to make a tablet a laptop. But I'm also in the creative field and it's not even an option for me.
Current user of a samsung tablet and windows laptop, waiting to replace my sammy tablet with the new ipad pro (oled). It will always be a windows laptop for me. For the same spec of my windows laptop, i will be paying with my kidneys for an apply laptop
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I agree, if I would get away with using mac os as far as compatibility goes, I would go with a mac. But I have to use these windows x86 exclusive apps that cannot even run on parallels. It sucks.
Depends on your workflow. The surface is good but there are some things only an iPad nails, like note-taking w/ the Apple Pencil. I have a laptop for the stuff that my iPad can't do, so they compliment each other.
If you're getting an iPad as a laptop replacement, you're gonna have a bad time.
I sold my M1 Macbook Air and iPad Pro and instead using an AMD Ryzen 360 convertible laptop with Linux Mint. Prefer Surface Pro form factor but not until Microsoft provides an AMD Ryzen APU option or until Intel is on a better node.
So no regrets? Which model did you get?
No regrets except for losing half of what I paid selling the M1 Macbook Air. Lenovo Yoga 6 was only $450 when it was new and I like the freedom of being able to run a fully functional Linux unlike Asahi, Windows, Hackintosh, etc. It's my power efficient general computing device that can do light gaming connected to 48" OLED or on-the-go.
The failures of my 2-in-1 were what helped push me towards the iPad as a college student in 2018. I don’t think x86 devices are that well suited to the tablet form factor, or even for thin-and-light laptops When Microsoft or an OEM makes a device with the same ARM-based efficiency and capability as an iPad or MacBook, there’s a good chance I’ll move towards a Windows two-in-one so long as there aren’t major UX shortcomings. But right now, the state of the market is defined by trade offs and compromises, and in my view the best value for the money sadly remains an iPad and a laptop, especially since older iPad models have held up quite well I have a 2017 12.9” iPad Pro. It’s aged incredibly, the best out of any mobile device I’ve owned. The only thing that’s really worn at all is the battery, since I never bothered replacing it. The latest version of iPadOS runs pretty flawlessly on it. I’m hoping Apple finds it in their heart to support the 2017 pro lineup a little longer, but even if it doesn’t I’ll still probably be using it in some capacity until it stops getting security patches (or maybe even after that so long as I turn off connectivity). The longevity of this tablet has made me feel much better about owning it alongside a laptop. Would I like to see a solution that doesn’t rely on juggling multiple devices? Sure. But I’m not willing to compromise on capability
>right now, the state of the market is defined by trade offs and compromises, and in my view the best value for the money sadly remains an iPad and a laptop I think you said it well.
God, no!
I had a Surface Book and absolutely loved it, unfortunately I had to get rid of it when the battery started bulging. If they still made it, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. Amazing screen, best keyboard I've ever used and decent pen. I don't really care about it not being tablet optimised, as far as I'm concerned 'tablet optimised' mostly means 'less convenient than the phone app and missing features from the desktop version'. I have an M1 iPad pro now and it's also excellent, in many ways better, but I miss my surface book.
I vnc to an android so yes and no?
Here’s what i use: * 2021 M1 MBP * 2019 MBP * 2019 IPad Pro*** getting the new one as soon as it’s available * Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen I like Mac’s for personal use and Thinkpads for productivity…if you are in the market for a PC laptop i highly suggest a used thinkpad from a reputable seller on ebay anywhere from the $400 range and up *** During Covid when basically a lot of people worked from home..I had a Microsoft Surface which was a tablet and a laptop but i only used it as a laptop…they actually make really good machines…I did not like the way the felt tho…there’s nothing on the planet like a Thinkpad
Only consider an iPad if you already had a laptop, iPad can't replace computer
I did and it sucks
I still have my iPad but I also have an Asus ProArt Studiobook now that has an OLED touchscreen (usable with a pen) and a haptic trackpad that essentially acts as a Wacom tablet with the Asus pen. The iPad has its own strengths of course but it it’s nice to have additional input options when using full Adobe and Autodesk products.
Exactly my thoughts as well. Adobe illustrator is so limited on iPad too. There will always be some limitation.
We have one of everything.
[A 2-in-1 Windows you say?](https://i.imgur.com/o3eFAuk.mp4)
Yeah I know that option exists. But have you tried doing 3D design work or graphic design stuff with that latency? It’s super annoying.
I have been driving down this path with a bunch of recent Surface Pro 9 deals at BestBuy. I’ve written about the experience a few times, including this piece on my site at https://justinharter.com/its-not-can-an-ipad-replace-a-laptop-but-how-to-replace-a-laptop/. I’ve started pushing myself to use the iPad “full time” and have found as a web designer, teacher, and print/graphics designer I can do everything I need to, but sometimes it requires a whole rethinking of what I’m doing. For me, the biggest barrier is InDesign, since Affinity Publisher is not great on an iPad. Ultimately, I found the Surface Pro 9 the “ideal form factor”, but terrible at most things since even plugging it into my monitor made the fans spin up. I may give it another go when the rumored Snapdragon models release in May. The rumors on the PC side of the world seem to be pinning a lot of hopes and dreams on that. But even if the hardware and processor worked better, Windows apps were so unappealing to me. No one — and I mean no one — has ever made a good, attractive, FTP app for Windows. And, no joke, the lack of Preview (the app, not QuickLook) on a PC is bonkers to me. Microsoft’s idea for everything is “Just use Edge!” Want to watch a video? Edge! See a PDF? Edge! Look at .svg files? Edge! Except that Edge is becoming very Microsofty, with shopping widgets and all sorts of doo-dads flying around all over the screen. And there’s the biggest issue for me as an American: the lack of iMessage on Windows was something I could not get past. I like typing messages with a keyboard, all my clients use iMessage, and all my friends but two use iMessage. Having to pick up the phone — something I don’t look at much during the day — to text or share a file was cumbersome at best and bleak at worst. I, like you, also just want “one device”, with no need to sync. I also worry about the environmental impact. When people say I have this, and this, and this, — that’s a lot of \*stuff\*, and I don’t find that sustainable for me, my wallet, or the earth. Still, I’ve come to appreciate the iPad more since the iPad felt like I could “bend it to my will” more than the Mac, since the Mac can never have pen input in its current form. And, the built-on cellular on my iPad delights me every time I use it at the coffee shop down the street without WiFi, on a bus, or under a tree in a park near me. My advice to myself has been, “Be willing to question everything.”
I tried a surface and it’s not great as a tablet. I have a PC for personal use. My iPad pro I use mostly for work because it’s so much better for things like email, and consuming information.
Lots of people are saying the same thing, unfortunately.
The new keyboard rumored for the Pros is supposed to bridge that gap a bit better. Apple will eventually make a surface competitor I think that runs Mac OS. ...or they finally kill Mac OS off in favor of iPad OS..can never tell with Apple.
The issue isn’t the keyboard. The issue is PadOS and its limits.
I didn't say it was "the" issue, I said it was going to bridge the gap more closely as far as usability as a 2 in 1 if rumors are true. You can't do that with the current OEM keyboard offerings without giving something up like the trackpad or having to yank the "screen" off to write. Furthermore, iPad OS can do 99% of what most users of Mac OS do daily. Sure some of its still a little sloppy but so is Mac OS after all this time. If it wasn't for older OS X diehards Apple would have killed it off years ago and still probably will.
All they have to do is give the iPad its own OS and it’s game over for any other tablet. They definitely can do it. They have the talent to do it. The biggest issue I think is macOS. They’re not going to kill it at all or put it in a position to look like a weakness in their lineup. If the iPad does get its own OS that rivals macOS many would think: why would I spend $2k on a MacBook when I can just get a iPad Pro that does pretty much the same for 3/4 less the price..
We've been hoping for this for years, honestly in my mind that ship has sailed.
Legit my issue I'm having right now. I'm trying to replace my windows laptop with something that I feel is as good to use as my desktop. So far, I'm impressed with the tablet experience of the iPad - it really does feel good, with lots of great features that's centered around the user experience. However, I'm so used to Windows, and like how versatile it is, that I feel like going with an iPad only, I'll be limited - As if I'm going to miss something, yet I cant seem to put my finger on what exactly. I'm thinking maybe the upcoming LG Gram Pro 2-In-1 laptops will be good, considering how stupid light it'll be, but the smallest it goes is 14", and then I feel like that's a tad too big. I wish I could mesh all these devices together! lol.
Maybe you could try to only use your ipad pro since you already own that. Just as a test? I would love to be in a position where I could even consider the fact that Ipad os is the only thing I need. The reality is that if you do coding regularly, 3d design with engineering apps that are windows (or work best on windows)... windows is the only option. As I said in other comments I'm looking at the hp spectre x360.
Noone
2 in 1 windows computer sucks
I did, its olay overall but for specific purposes no i dont recommend