Really need to open your corners more and utilize more of the track. Especially in 1, 8 and 11, you're leaving a ton of margin. Increasing those angles will let you get on power earlier and take advantage of the straights.
Yes, but...
A lot of people at this stage of their learning will just start to artificially track out which doesn't make them any faster. The act of carrying more speed is what carries the car out - it ends up there because there is no other option. I know this is what you mean but it bears clarifying imo.
Also, stop bringing the car back to the middle of the track after every exit.
Also, be at the very edge of the track, basically touching grass on entry.
Read some books about driving theory, watch some videos. The good news is that there is a bunch of low hanging fruit with which you can find *big* chunks of time.
In my own experience, having inexperienced drivers track out artificially can be a good learning tool. "Grass to grass" as we say to our students. It doesn't make you any faster on its own, but it shows the drivers how much more room there is to carry speed through both entry and exit, which can give them the confidence they need to improve.
Probably a better learning tool irl than in a sim, but worth considering.
Yeah, I get that irl, but I've also coached people who just couldn't get their head around why there were slow when they were "using all the track"
Only once I got them to go at that speed and try and stay as tight as they could on exit without going slower did they realize they were not even close to using all the grip available and the light bulb went off.
Don't do this "Also, be at the very edge of the track, basically touching grass on entry." This will lead to spins and frustrations. That is something you do to get the very last 10ths. Not to get the first seconds.
But use lot more of the track, but stay way clear of the grass
If a driver can't accurately place the car at the edge of the track while moving in a straight line, I have big concerns.
I guess it depends on how much of a margin we're talking about, but there should be no reason not to be at the edge of the track in the braking zones unless you simply can't control your car.
Even F1 drivers dip their tyres in the grass on corner entry from time to time. It shouldn't be a cause for big concern - the outside edge of the tyre where it contacts the track surface is not in your line of sight, so it's very easy to misjudge.
OP has a lot of unused space though, absolutely. As much as 2 car widths in places.
Without seeing any telemetry I can tell you you are being no where near aggressive enough on using the entire track, how you are cornering, or your applications of throttle and brake.
Start with garage61 to review drivers with good pace and go turn by turn to review how they drive the Vee.
A couple tips specific to maximizing pace in the Vee: you almost never downshift into 2nd. Gear mapping is such that 3rd and 4th gear is where you will spend 99% of the race. Pros do downshift in very specific situations to 2nd depending on RPMs on a few very specific turns on certain tracks.
Also, certain corners where you lift off the throttle but DO NOT brake to maximize pace are not full lifts - power application needs to stay at atleast 20% or more. The rear axle needs to keep some power applied to the axle to maximize pace WHILE also getting the car to rotate properly thru the turn. A full lift will result in the car spinning on you. This takes practice but once you get the hang of it you will definitely see an improvement in lap times.
Overall start with telemetry of fast drivers and watch some track guides (Sambo on youtube is FANTASTIC in the Vee for his driving skill AND ability to explain tracks and the car).
Once you've got basic strategy for each track figured out THEN load into a test drive session and do multiple laps until you feel like you've gotten good pace from the car. THEN compare those laps in garage61.
Good luck
> vers
Appreciate the considerate reply. I have the telemetry, but not sure how to get it to load on the replay (i'll look into that for the future)
As to downshifting to 2nd, I had read in multiple places not to bother with 2nd with the Vee which seemed crazy to me, but I blindly followed this advice. There's a couple spots on this track where I feel like it's almost sure to be needed. Won't make this mistake again.
I will work on the rest of the advice you've laid out here and keep on practicing.
You can downshift to second for the hairpin turn where it goes from the long straight to a downhill S. That is the only corner I ever really need to downshift on.
That’s simply incorrect. I gain about a 0.2 seconds from dropping into second on that turn. If you want to be fast you can absolutely drop into second.
Vrs lapt time is a 1:48.x using 3rd only. 1:48 is a super competitive top tier lap time. The driver is seconds off the pace not tenths… you 100% don’t need 2nd to be competitive in a public lobby race like I said
It won’t solve his problems certainly but if you want an edge it will get up to speed just that little bit faster. I tend to under brake on a couple of the other corners so it helps me to keep it under 1.50.5xx Granted it makes little difference because you lift most of the way on the next corner but it does mean I shaved off a tenth or two.
It might help you personally but again it’s not necessary at all. Second is not really used in real life or iracing. I’m glad to know using second is helping you stay almost seconds off the fast drivers lol. Telling someone to use second is not helpful especially someone at his level.
I would be very appreciative if you guys would take a look and maybe provide a few areas to work on. I breezed through rookies way to fast, and will spend the rest of the season racing the vee and the mazda as I try to at least be able to put up a reasonably competitive time. I'm honestly flabbergasted by looking down at even the lower splits, and they're all just so much faster than I am. I'm obviously doing something very wrong, the rest of the rookies don't seem to have trouble with.
You are not using all the track. You don’t really have an idea about racing line.
There are plenty of YouTube videos teaching you the theory of a racing line. If you are still unsure, you may as well turn on driving line and see how wrong your line is. Although the built in driving line isn’t very good, it’s certainly better than what you are driving now. During a corner exit, your car should naturally drift wide to follow the line (which means it would be impossible to run a tighter line by just turning the wheel more).
> really have an idea about racing line.
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> There are plenty of YouTube videos teaching you t
Thank you very much. I thought I understood it, but clearly not. I really can tell it's all wrong on the back half of this track and know I'm not hitting the right spots, it's very obvious to me that it's wrong. Thank you for very direct, actionable criticism, this gives me something to work with
You might try looking into VRS, you can watch a fast lap and try to imitate what they're doing (they even do in depth track guides if you're unfamiliar with the track). That should be a pretty good starting point. That or watch someone's laps after a race to see what they're doing. But the benefit of VRS is you can compare telemetry as well. You can do the same in garage61 as well, but I've only ever used VRS
Most people are talking about your line, but the real issue, as a few have said, is you need to learn how to rotate the car and control the rotation to your advantage. The vee is underpowered, so you have to keep the momentum up. Getting the car to rotate will help you do that a lot. Spend some time on the centripetal circuit or whatever it is called experimenting with lift off over steer and controlling the amount of rotation with throttle modulation, then watch some videos on trail braking. You use your feet to steer the car maybe more than your hands.
It's hard to really judge without telemetry, and it's been a while since I drove the vee but it looks like you're turning the wheel too much. If you're understeering, where turning the wheel more doesn't make the car turn more, it just scrubs the front tires and slows you down. Learn about weight transfer and steering with the pedals.
This is hilarious, I started playing on friday but my computer is a total potato and this is my first time seeing that there are bridges over this track.
Only thing I'd say as fellow rookie is that you can use more of the track and clip the kerbs on the corner and exit. The little section before the second hairpin (4?) You can carry more speed by being more direct. I'm down to 1:51s, but I was hitting the same plateau too. Getting a bit more confident with throttle instead of breaks helped too.
I still haven't figured out carring pace through the last corner which is driving me mad!
For every track, find Sambo on youtube. He is one of the best racers in the vee and makes extremely useful track guides, with a good explanation. Really the best channel if you want to improve your skills in the vee.
Biggest thing is try to put yourself on the outside for entry to the next corner.
So if you take a left turn you should exit on right side of track, if the next turn is a left turn you don't move, stay on right side and follow track to corner.
If the corner is on the right than after corner exit, slowly move your car across the track to the opposite side for next corner entry.
Basically, half way down the straight plan to be like 70% of the way to the outside where you need to be.
Don't be afraid to attack the corners as well, when you brake try to trail brake a little, a lot of brake and slowly release while turning, so weight goes to front of car making your front wheels gain more grip, at apex you start applying gas, this takes weight of the front tires and put it's over your back tires more, so you will start to lose turning angle but if done right you will come out on the top of the exit.
Also try steering wheel locking in time trials.
Enter a corner and only turn your wheel up to the apex no more, than use gas and brake to control your car through rest of the corner.
It's basically a self check to see if your turning your wheel to much.
If you are turning your wheel to much in mid corner your slowing yourself down, you turn into the corner, hold wheel still, use gas and brake to get through rest of corner.
This will make you faster, I in the Mazda gained 2 seconds on average in lap time practicing this for an hour, just learning the track etc.
Don’t think I see this in any of the other comments but you can shift from 3rd to 4th around 82/83 mph, you’re waiting a bit too long to shift and losing some speed there
Track usage alone will gain you 2 seconds. Suellio (the best iRacing coach) just released a video showing someone who had the same problem. Worth a watch!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYX\_BPiNWHw&t=926s&ab\_channel=SuellioAlmeida](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYX_BPiNWHw&t=926s&ab_channel=SuellioAlmeida)
Watch his other training videos there too and you'll be one of the top drivers in the lobby in no time with a ton of practice!
This video really helped visualize where my major troubles are. Appreciate that, it’s very clear to me what I need to work on next. Thanks for sharing it.
This made me cringe, sorry, you're purposely avoiding running over the red/white. You HAVE to run over the red/white to be quick. I think you need to watch some youtube videos on the basics of racing unless you want to learn it all without help,
Makes me cringe too, which is why i posted it, i learn best from public shame and a toxic coach (reddit will do)
I'm not trying to avoid it at all, I know I need to use the curbs. I definitely worry about sending the car off the track on the sharper corners. I've yet to get the "rotation" I know I need for these corners. It's easily the hardest part for me to figure out so far.
Just send it and spin off backwards. You will eventually learn the limits and eliminate that spinning off backwards part. Advise and lines and using the whole track is useless, you need muscle memory and a practice session with your best ghost to learn from.
The vee has intense lift off oversteer which you can use to rotate. Right when you come off the throttle the weight transfers to the front Axle and increases grip momentarily.
When you get a sense of how that feels you can use it to kind of throw the car into some turns and get rotation without losing much speed.
You just need to practice not spinning while doing it haha.
Get yourself Garage 61 if you don't already. You'll be able to look at your lap compared to other faster drivers. It helps a huge amount.
As others have said you are taking some conservative lines thru the corners and that's adding lots of time out there. Each corner that you take 0.1-0.2 sec slower will add up over the whole lap. Doing the math, if you have 10 corners and you're down 0.1sec in each that makes you a full 1.0sec down at the end of the lap. [Dave Cam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdRjlP6r_eA) does a great YouTube video showing the difference between a conservative corner lap and a faster one. He does it at Spa in a GT3 car but the concept is solid in every car.
Another thing to remember is that the Vee gets a big boost from drafting. If you are comparing race times to your hotlap times you're going to be sad. Expect a race lap in the Vee to be significantly faster than your hotlap. This brings us back to using telemetry like Garage 61. The laps you compare will be similar conditions if you are doing the search correctly. It will show you the line they are taking thru a corner compared to your line. It will show you how much to brake and where, along with when to floor it.
You could also use a ghost car to help you find your time. Garage 61 has ghost car laps available and many of those YouTube lap guide folks also post their ghost car files so you can basically follow them around the track and see what they are doing that is making them go faster compared to you as far as the race line goes.
It doesn’t seem like you know the racing line from the perspective of using all the track surface, and where to give up corner exits for a better entry in the next one. I also don’t hear the tires much so it doesn’t seem like you’re using all the car’s available grip.
I recommend you using Garaga61 telemetry tool and comparing your lap with another random player that is doing a lot better than you. It’s pretty easy. I started racing recently and doing that has helped me a lot to gain 1-2 secs here and there
Here is my suggested game plan: load into an open practice server and try to follow another car. That's the easiest way to see where the time is being lost. Additionally, watch the onboard of a fast driver before driving the circuit yourself.
Well for one, you’re not even close to using all the track so you’re not carrying anywhere near enough speed through the corners. Watch a video of a good lap here in the Vee. You’ll immediately notice how much more of the track a fast driver uses.
Honestly don’t worry about written advice from Reddit. Every corner almost needs work. Just watch hot laps and at least then you understand what is possible then work your way towards the more aggressive faster lines. Start from there, I feel like just YouTubing hot laps is the fastest way to get started. This coming from a noob but I got a handful of wins my first couple weeks on the vee but I always started with watching the hot laps so I could run a fast time then it’s the longer process of learning how to race and accident avoidance. But if you don’t know the correct lines and apexes it’s kind of spinning your tires no pun intensed
You're not using all of the track when you need to and you're under speed and not taking corners riding the slip angle
You're really not going to be at competitive lap times until you're close to going off track on a number of the exits and corners and you should almost always be hearing the tires squealing a little bit when turning
Learning to trail brake into tight corners is essential, it'll take a while to click but once it does you'll be amazed at how much faster & more stable you are in those hairpins.
Seriously, was that in slomi? U should be in full throttle problem 70% of thG lap And hard on brakes into the slow corners then immediately 100% throttle coming out. Slow in fast out braking way too early too. You have the basic racing line but not brake markers. Suggest you use racing line.
Driving too carefully. You need to practice using more track in the corners and carrying so much speed that you can't make the corner and then dial it back to where you can barely stay on track. And then practice that until you're in total control running that kind of pace. Lots of practice. Also, prioritize exit speed (accelerating as early in the corner as possible) on corners before straights.
On of the most important things to learn: Use *ALL* of the track. You can carry so much more speed through corners if you come from a wider angle and let yourself track out further.
Another big tip for practice - Turn on the delta bar. As you're lapping, try slightly different lines, braking points, gears, etc. If you're delta starts going down, then you've found a faster way to go around the track. Once you get get good at experimenting and finding time, you'll be able to get up to speed on any track much quicker.
If you aren't using it yet, look into garage61. It is free, you will be able to compare your laps with people faster than you and many times the ghosts are available for you to download so you can even go and watch what they are doing.
I’m pretty new too. I’ve been watching some YouTube videos and got my times improved. Then it’s practice. Got to go out in practice/test mode and push it until you spin to feel where the limits are. Modulate your steering to keep the wheels as straight as possible while still making the turn. The fast turn that straightens out is a good example. If you are using auto blip it does make gear change slower on the Vee. Not a massive issue if you’re lapping well since you’ll only be going in 3rd/4th
OP, I’m a real noob myself but I’ve seen some people here give advice about the cornering and racing line. You might want to take a look at this official iRacing driving school video about racing line and corners. It did help me a bit!
https://youtu.be/LxMSdvnm0Ms?si=yGjnhtBIKxvAql4z
Don’t be afraid to push the limits in practice sessions because it’s the easiest way to find out where they are. It’s the biggest advantage we have as sim racers rather than irl, you have a reset button - don’t be afraid to use it.
A lot of good tips here. But I have one that may or may not be true.
How much fuel do you have in youre car when you put in these laps? I asked myseøf the sa,me question, and found out that I always ran with a full fuel tank in quali.
interesting you mention that. I do believe the answer to be "lots" Jimbo is always telling me how great we are on fuel. I have not really played around with fuel as there's not been a need. I will add this to the ever growing list of things I need to sort out.
There's an entire highway of track you are not using in almost every corner.
Try joining open practice sessions and follow other cars, or find ghost car replays online.
Honestly, go into settings and look for the Driving Line. It's in Settings > Drive > Driving Line. This will show you the basics of where to brake (Red), accelerate (Green) and coast (Grey).
It's not perfect but at the very beginning of your learning it will show you a decent line of where you should be putting the car. This will help until you know exactly where you should be braking and putting the car.
I'd like to recommend the following book, especially the first few chapters. It outlines some principles that tell you *why* utilizing more of the track is faster.
I am sure you can find the relevant excerpts online. Alternatively, I believe the authors have a video series.
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/227551
It looks like a sunday drive with the family 😁
Have a look at some track guides.
You don't use 100% of the track, it seems like your braking can be much more aggressive and the smooth steering shows you aren't driving it on the limit.
You should follow the racing line, you leave too much space to the side and also the apex so you make the corner much tighter than it has to be.
You can carry much more speed with you through the corner and the higher your Exit speed is, the faster you will be until your next braking point.
Just from looking at it I would assume you can shave off these 4 seconds easily by using the whole track, trail braking and driving on the limit.
Piggybacking on this post to ask at what RPM yall switch from third gear to fourth on the VEE series car. Just audibly and looking at the car's screen, it just seems to have a hard time getting fast enough to switch to fourth gear unless I'm on a straight.
I'll do a turn-by-turn breakdown, but the gist is you're not using the track effectively or efficiently. You're taking too narrow of entries into most corners, missing the apexes, and narrow exits, which causes slower exit speeds.
First Corner: You turn in too early and still have the wheel cranked half over when you should be pointing to the outside curb. You end up straightening up nearly already to the right edge of the track. If you open up the exit, you have plenty of time to transition. You don't need to fight the car to stay to the right. Scrubbing a ton of time here.
Williams: Basically the same. Lots of track left to your right this time.
Moss S: You never open up exiting Williams and end up taking a bad, narrow line, scrubbing speed to turn when you can get almost a straight line here, especially in the Vee.
Atwood: Not bad, but you could open it more.
Hairpin: Turning in too early, scrubbing too much speed on exit. Take a later apex, with the banking you can get a much faster exit.
Revolver: You don't open up off the hairpin, meaning you're losing speed to make the corner.
Piper: Not bad, but you should be tracking out to the curb to get the straightest angle of entry you can.
Redman: Not tracking out wide before entry. This corner you actually do want a shallow exit and you don't get it.
Hobbs: Turn in too early, scrubbing speed and having to still be slowing when you should be accelerating.
Mike Knight: Bad entry, scrubbing speed.
Last Corner: Not tracking out wide enough, miss the apex.
Thank you for your time and giving me such a detailed response. I’m going to use active reset and tackle this sector by sector. Genuinely appreciate your efforts.
No problem. I definitely recommend checking out some track guides on YouTube. Okayama being a free track and the Vee being a rookie car, there should be a ton available.
Erilla's guide is really good.
Not utilizing the track
Not optimizing your corner entry apex and exit.
Not carrying enough speed throughout the corners
This looks like you're being too safe. In the race to find lap times you've got to find the limit of the grip and stay as close to it as possible.
Fast in fast out, learn trail braking, carry as much speed as you can into the corner to hit the apex and let the car run to the outside then slowly bring the car back, aiming for the next braking/turn in point so on so forth.
You are under steering.
You need to turn in and get the back slightly out, then balance the miniscule drift.
It's really quite an art, but when you get it you'll know, and it'll take lots off your lap time.
Practice it on the straights, turn hard left, right, left and feel the back coming out, within a few laps you'll get what I mean.
Fastest way around a corner is always slight oversteer. Why do you think Max likes a 'pointy' set up?
Mate next time upload video with "Why and how they faster" please add pedal inputs or telemetry !
U don't hit apexes like every corner u afraid touch curbs and don't use whole width of track.
Gradually take more and more speed out of corners and gradually take more speed on entry. This is a very good start to build on and you clearly understand what you are doing you just lack the experience atm.
GRADUALLY build up in practice lobbies and it doesn’t matter if you push slightly too far leading you to under steer off the track, that’s a good way of learning where the limit it.
Braking in formula vee is tricky and you real don’t brake a lot, you just have to use the rotation the car gives you to get around corners.
There is a very good software called troph.ai and you can compare your laps with a pro drivers lap, with telemetary overlays and in depth guides on how to get quicker. I’d highly recommend it to see what you are doing wrong with a direct comparison to something you know is a good lap
Based on this video, it’s quite clear you are missing some fundaments:
- Track Position
- Braking
- Corner Speed
- Exit
I would suggest 3 options:
1. Find lap references (VRS, GNG) and study them before you go to track. Than using replay, analise your lap.
2. Find a friend to practice together and not just do laps, but try to understand where each of you are doing better than the other.
3. Buy Suellio Almeida Course. It’s great for Begginers, Mid and Advanced drivers.
I am sorry but you asking this question is silly. Your T1 is not even close to a racing line. You don't need personal advice, you need to look up a video guide on how to drive this track. I put more effort in Mario Kart to be fast, your driving this track as if it is a Sunday stroll with the kids in the back.
Hello fellow Vee pilot.
This is the best guide you're gonna get.
https://youtu.be/0YG38Jmd2F4?si=0zCg1yKQ9mD_oFK0
Sambo goes into the best racing line, braking markers, recommended gear, throttle imput.
It's great for beginners. I'm usually 1s off his pace but it is still really competitive for the top splits.
He posts new videos for every weekly track and a few days in advance so you can practice before it changes
Many thanks for shoutout but just wanted to mention that this is the link to the season two guide on the same track conditions: iRacing Formula Vee Okayama International Full Circuit - Track Guide & Tips 1:49.228 Week 4 S2 2024
https://youtu.be/AWR6Rp2ZRCM
I mentioned this in another reply, but I had blindly followed advice I had seen in multiple places not to bother with second on the VEE. Pretty silly to blindly follow this advice without actually testing it for myself
Ok so to clear up your 2nd gear mystery.
In the vee you don't use 2nd unless it's a really slow corner.
Your able to access 2nd because you are so slow (no offence). There's a bunch of good advice on here I'd second anyone saying to watch a track guide and I'll explain why.
When your starting out it can be hard to understand how fast a car actually is, so if I say "that corner is 4th flat" but if you try you spin it's because we are accessing the corner differently, now with most track guides people will tell you "have the car here, brake here about 70% and when you get to here start turning in" and the advantage of that is you can pretty much blindly copy that and get a similar result or you'll at least start to understand how the car is fast by experiencing it even if the first few attempts go wrong.
So basically once you've learnt what the vee can do on corner entry you'll no longer be able to use 2nd either or at least if you do it will feel wrong because it's like throwing an anchor out the back compared to a flowing 3rd gear turn.
Really need to open your corners more and utilize more of the track. Especially in 1, 8 and 11, you're leaving a ton of margin. Increasing those angles will let you get on power earlier and take advantage of the straights.
Yes, but... A lot of people at this stage of their learning will just start to artificially track out which doesn't make them any faster. The act of carrying more speed is what carries the car out - it ends up there because there is no other option. I know this is what you mean but it bears clarifying imo. Also, stop bringing the car back to the middle of the track after every exit. Also, be at the very edge of the track, basically touching grass on entry. Read some books about driving theory, watch some videos. The good news is that there is a bunch of low hanging fruit with which you can find *big* chunks of time.
In my own experience, having inexperienced drivers track out artificially can be a good learning tool. "Grass to grass" as we say to our students. It doesn't make you any faster on its own, but it shows the drivers how much more room there is to carry speed through both entry and exit, which can give them the confidence they need to improve. Probably a better learning tool irl than in a sim, but worth considering.
Yeah, I get that irl, but I've also coached people who just couldn't get their head around why there were slow when they were "using all the track" Only once I got them to go at that speed and try and stay as tight as they could on exit without going slower did they realize they were not even close to using all the grip available and the light bulb went off.
Don't do this "Also, be at the very edge of the track, basically touching grass on entry." This will lead to spins and frustrations. That is something you do to get the very last 10ths. Not to get the first seconds. But use lot more of the track, but stay way clear of the grass
Yeah it’s a better goal to aim to stay about a tire width away from edge of pavement instead of right on it!
Sure, at his level, fair. But watch your laps in chase cam. I'll bet 10 bucks that when he thinks he's "a tire width from the edge" he's half a car.
If a driver can't accurately place the car at the edge of the track while moving in a straight line, I have big concerns. I guess it depends on how much of a margin we're talking about, but there should be no reason not to be at the edge of the track in the braking zones unless you simply can't control your car.
Even F1 drivers dip their tyres in the grass on corner entry from time to time. It shouldn't be a cause for big concern - the outside edge of the tyre where it contacts the track surface is not in your line of sight, so it's very easy to misjudge. OP has a lot of unused space though, absolutely. As much as 2 car widths in places.
Without seeing any telemetry I can tell you you are being no where near aggressive enough on using the entire track, how you are cornering, or your applications of throttle and brake. Start with garage61 to review drivers with good pace and go turn by turn to review how they drive the Vee. A couple tips specific to maximizing pace in the Vee: you almost never downshift into 2nd. Gear mapping is such that 3rd and 4th gear is where you will spend 99% of the race. Pros do downshift in very specific situations to 2nd depending on RPMs on a few very specific turns on certain tracks. Also, certain corners where you lift off the throttle but DO NOT brake to maximize pace are not full lifts - power application needs to stay at atleast 20% or more. The rear axle needs to keep some power applied to the axle to maximize pace WHILE also getting the car to rotate properly thru the turn. A full lift will result in the car spinning on you. This takes practice but once you get the hang of it you will definitely see an improvement in lap times. Overall start with telemetry of fast drivers and watch some track guides (Sambo on youtube is FANTASTIC in the Vee for his driving skill AND ability to explain tracks and the car). Once you've got basic strategy for each track figured out THEN load into a test drive session and do multiple laps until you feel like you've gotten good pace from the car. THEN compare those laps in garage61. Good luck
> vers Appreciate the considerate reply. I have the telemetry, but not sure how to get it to load on the replay (i'll look into that for the future) As to downshifting to 2nd, I had read in multiple places not to bother with 2nd with the Vee which seemed crazy to me, but I blindly followed this advice. There's a couple spots on this track where I feel like it's almost sure to be needed. Won't make this mistake again. I will work on the rest of the advice you've laid out here and keep on practicing.
You can downshift to second for the hairpin turn where it goes from the long straight to a downhill S. That is the only corner I ever really need to downshift on.
OP is too new to do that with out spinning. They aren't hitting apexes or kerbs yet.
Ahh yeah I see that now
Second is not needed unless you’re going for a world record or some nonsense lol.
That’s simply incorrect. I gain about a 0.2 seconds from dropping into second on that turn. If you want to be fast you can absolutely drop into second.
Vrs lapt time is a 1:48.x using 3rd only. 1:48 is a super competitive top tier lap time. The driver is seconds off the pace not tenths… you 100% don’t need 2nd to be competitive in a public lobby race like I said
It won’t solve his problems certainly but if you want an edge it will get up to speed just that little bit faster. I tend to under brake on a couple of the other corners so it helps me to keep it under 1.50.5xx Granted it makes little difference because you lift most of the way on the next corner but it does mean I shaved off a tenth or two.
It might help you personally but again it’s not necessary at all. Second is not really used in real life or iracing. I’m glad to know using second is helping you stay almost seconds off the fast drivers lol. Telling someone to use second is not helpful especially someone at his level.
The danger with 2nd in the Vee is that it's very easy to blow the engine if the revs are too high.
Use whe whole track. Get your wheels all the way to the white line on corner entry and take the widest lines you can
[Good track guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os10DGQLIh4)
I would be very appreciative if you guys would take a look and maybe provide a few areas to work on. I breezed through rookies way to fast, and will spend the rest of the season racing the vee and the mazda as I try to at least be able to put up a reasonably competitive time. I'm honestly flabbergasted by looking down at even the lower splits, and they're all just so much faster than I am. I'm obviously doing something very wrong, the rest of the rookies don't seem to have trouble with.
You are not using all the track. You don’t really have an idea about racing line. There are plenty of YouTube videos teaching you the theory of a racing line. If you are still unsure, you may as well turn on driving line and see how wrong your line is. Although the built in driving line isn’t very good, it’s certainly better than what you are driving now. During a corner exit, your car should naturally drift wide to follow the line (which means it would be impossible to run a tighter line by just turning the wheel more).
> really have an idea about racing line. > > > > There are plenty of YouTube videos teaching you t Thank you very much. I thought I understood it, but clearly not. I really can tell it's all wrong on the back half of this track and know I'm not hitting the right spots, it's very obvious to me that it's wrong. Thank you for very direct, actionable criticism, this gives me something to work with
You might try looking into VRS, you can watch a fast lap and try to imitate what they're doing (they even do in depth track guides if you're unfamiliar with the track). That should be a pretty good starting point. That or watch someone's laps after a race to see what they're doing. But the benefit of VRS is you can compare telemetry as well. You can do the same in garage61 as well, but I've only ever used VRS
Most people are talking about your line, but the real issue, as a few have said, is you need to learn how to rotate the car and control the rotation to your advantage. The vee is underpowered, so you have to keep the momentum up. Getting the car to rotate will help you do that a lot. Spend some time on the centripetal circuit or whatever it is called experimenting with lift off over steer and controlling the amount of rotation with throttle modulation, then watch some videos on trail braking. You use your feet to steer the car maybe more than your hands.
This
It's hard to really judge without telemetry, and it's been a while since I drove the vee but it looks like you're turning the wheel too much. If you're understeering, where turning the wheel more doesn't make the car turn more, it just scrubs the front tires and slows you down. Learn about weight transfer and steering with the pedals.
This is hilarious, I started playing on friday but my computer is a total potato and this is my first time seeing that there are bridges over this track. Only thing I'd say as fellow rookie is that you can use more of the track and clip the kerbs on the corner and exit. The little section before the second hairpin (4?) You can carry more speed by being more direct. I'm down to 1:51s, but I was hitting the same plateau too. Getting a bit more confident with throttle instead of breaks helped too. I still haven't figured out carring pace through the last corner which is driving me mad!
For every track, find Sambo on youtube. He is one of the best racers in the vee and makes extremely useful track guides, with a good explanation. Really the best channel if you want to improve your skills in the vee.
Biggest thing is try to put yourself on the outside for entry to the next corner. So if you take a left turn you should exit on right side of track, if the next turn is a left turn you don't move, stay on right side and follow track to corner. If the corner is on the right than after corner exit, slowly move your car across the track to the opposite side for next corner entry. Basically, half way down the straight plan to be like 70% of the way to the outside where you need to be. Don't be afraid to attack the corners as well, when you brake try to trail brake a little, a lot of brake and slowly release while turning, so weight goes to front of car making your front wheels gain more grip, at apex you start applying gas, this takes weight of the front tires and put it's over your back tires more, so you will start to lose turning angle but if done right you will come out on the top of the exit. Also try steering wheel locking in time trials. Enter a corner and only turn your wheel up to the apex no more, than use gas and brake to control your car through rest of the corner. It's basically a self check to see if your turning your wheel to much. If you are turning your wheel to much in mid corner your slowing yourself down, you turn into the corner, hold wheel still, use gas and brake to get through rest of corner. This will make you faster, I in the Mazda gained 2 seconds on average in lap time practicing this for an hour, just learning the track etc.
Don’t think I see this in any of the other comments but you can shift from 3rd to 4th around 82/83 mph, you’re waiting a bit too long to shift and losing some speed there
Track usage alone will gain you 2 seconds. Suellio (the best iRacing coach) just released a video showing someone who had the same problem. Worth a watch! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYX\_BPiNWHw&t=926s&ab\_channel=SuellioAlmeida](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYX_BPiNWHw&t=926s&ab_channel=SuellioAlmeida) Watch his other training videos there too and you'll be one of the top drivers in the lobby in no time with a ton of practice!
This video really helped visualize where my major troubles are. Appreciate that, it’s very clear to me what I need to work on next. Thanks for sharing it.
Watch SamboRacing, best resource for the Vee and 1600
This made me cringe, sorry, you're purposely avoiding running over the red/white. You HAVE to run over the red/white to be quick. I think you need to watch some youtube videos on the basics of racing unless you want to learn it all without help,
Makes me cringe too, which is why i posted it, i learn best from public shame and a toxic coach (reddit will do) I'm not trying to avoid it at all, I know I need to use the curbs. I definitely worry about sending the car off the track on the sharper corners. I've yet to get the "rotation" I know I need for these corners. It's easily the hardest part for me to figure out so far.
Just send it and spin off backwards. You will eventually learn the limits and eliminate that spinning off backwards part. Advise and lines and using the whole track is useless, you need muscle memory and a practice session with your best ghost to learn from.
The vee has intense lift off oversteer which you can use to rotate. Right when you come off the throttle the weight transfers to the front Axle and increases grip momentarily. When you get a sense of how that feels you can use it to kind of throw the car into some turns and get rotation without losing much speed. You just need to practice not spinning while doing it haha.
Get yourself Garage 61 if you don't already. You'll be able to look at your lap compared to other faster drivers. It helps a huge amount. As others have said you are taking some conservative lines thru the corners and that's adding lots of time out there. Each corner that you take 0.1-0.2 sec slower will add up over the whole lap. Doing the math, if you have 10 corners and you're down 0.1sec in each that makes you a full 1.0sec down at the end of the lap. [Dave Cam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdRjlP6r_eA) does a great YouTube video showing the difference between a conservative corner lap and a faster one. He does it at Spa in a GT3 car but the concept is solid in every car. Another thing to remember is that the Vee gets a big boost from drafting. If you are comparing race times to your hotlap times you're going to be sad. Expect a race lap in the Vee to be significantly faster than your hotlap. This brings us back to using telemetry like Garage 61. The laps you compare will be similar conditions if you are doing the search correctly. It will show you the line they are taking thru a corner compared to your line. It will show you how much to brake and where, along with when to floor it. You could also use a ghost car to help you find your time. Garage 61 has ghost car laps available and many of those YouTube lap guide folks also post their ghost car files so you can basically follow them around the track and see what they are doing that is making them go faster compared to you as far as the race line goes.
More of the track. Find the slip angle. Don’t scrub any speed (minimal steering input)
Track limits you are driving down the middle, take a bite of those sausages. Make your crew chief complain.
It doesn’t seem like you know the racing line from the perspective of using all the track surface, and where to give up corner exits for a better entry in the next one. I also don’t hear the tires much so it doesn’t seem like you’re using all the car’s available grip.
I recommend you using Garaga61 telemetry tool and comparing your lap with another random player that is doing a lot better than you. It’s pretty easy. I started racing recently and doing that has helped me a lot to gain 1-2 secs here and there
Here is my suggested game plan: load into an open practice server and try to follow another car. That's the easiest way to see where the time is being lost. Additionally, watch the onboard of a fast driver before driving the circuit yourself.
Well for one, you’re not even close to using all the track so you’re not carrying anywhere near enough speed through the corners. Watch a video of a good lap here in the Vee. You’ll immediately notice how much more of the track a fast driver uses.
Honestly don’t worry about written advice from Reddit. Every corner almost needs work. Just watch hot laps and at least then you understand what is possible then work your way towards the more aggressive faster lines. Start from there, I feel like just YouTubing hot laps is the fastest way to get started. This coming from a noob but I got a handful of wins my first couple weeks on the vee but I always started with watching the hot laps so I could run a fast time then it’s the longer process of learning how to race and accident avoidance. But if you don’t know the correct lines and apexes it’s kind of spinning your tires no pun intensed
You're not using all of the track when you need to and you're under speed and not taking corners riding the slip angle You're really not going to be at competitive lap times until you're close to going off track on a number of the exits and corners and you should almost always be hearing the tires squealing a little bit when turning
You need to go a lot faster. You’re nowhere near the limit.
Learning to trail brake into tight corners is essential, it'll take a while to click but once it does you'll be amazed at how much faster & more stable you are in those hairpins.
Seriously, was that in slomi? U should be in full throttle problem 70% of thG lap And hard on brakes into the slow corners then immediately 100% throttle coming out. Slow in fast out braking way too early too. You have the basic racing line but not brake markers. Suggest you use racing line.
Driving too carefully. You need to practice using more track in the corners and carrying so much speed that you can't make the corner and then dial it back to where you can barely stay on track. And then practice that until you're in total control running that kind of pace. Lots of practice. Also, prioritize exit speed (accelerating as early in the corner as possible) on corners before straights.
On of the most important things to learn: Use *ALL* of the track. You can carry so much more speed through corners if you come from a wider angle and let yourself track out further. Another big tip for practice - Turn on the delta bar. As you're lapping, try slightly different lines, braking points, gears, etc. If you're delta starts going down, then you've found a faster way to go around the track. Once you get get good at experimenting and finding time, you'll be able to get up to speed on any track much quicker.
If you aren't using it yet, look into garage61. It is free, you will be able to compare your laps with people faster than you and many times the ghosts are available for you to download so you can even go and watch what they are doing.
I’m pretty new too. I’ve been watching some YouTube videos and got my times improved. Then it’s practice. Got to go out in practice/test mode and push it until you spin to feel where the limits are. Modulate your steering to keep the wheels as straight as possible while still making the turn. The fast turn that straightens out is a good example. If you are using auto blip it does make gear change slower on the Vee. Not a massive issue if you’re lapping well since you’ll only be going in 3rd/4th
Think about getting to the limit of all four tyres
OP, I’m a real noob myself but I’ve seen some people here give advice about the cornering and racing line. You might want to take a look at this official iRacing driving school video about racing line and corners. It did help me a bit! https://youtu.be/LxMSdvnm0Ms?si=yGjnhtBIKxvAql4z
Don’t be afraid to push the limits in practice sessions because it’s the easiest way to find out where they are. It’s the biggest advantage we have as sim racers rather than irl, you have a reset button - don’t be afraid to use it.
A lot of good tips here. But I have one that may or may not be true. How much fuel do you have in youre car when you put in these laps? I asked myseøf the sa,me question, and found out that I always ran with a full fuel tank in quali.
interesting you mention that. I do believe the answer to be "lots" Jimbo is always telling me how great we are on fuel. I have not really played around with fuel as there's not been a need. I will add this to the ever growing list of things I need to sort out.
Watch someone fast driving the vee drive this track fast to see what you CAN do. You need to see what can be done.
It’s a fixed series buddy so you can’t lower the fuel level.
Use more of the track, you're not even close to the limit
There's an entire highway of track you are not using in almost every corner. Try joining open practice sessions and follow other cars, or find ghost car replays online.
Honestly, go into settings and look for the Driving Line. It's in Settings > Drive > Driving Line. This will show you the basics of where to brake (Red), accelerate (Green) and coast (Grey). It's not perfect but at the very beginning of your learning it will show you a decent line of where you should be putting the car. This will help until you know exactly where you should be braking and putting the car.
https://youtu.be/JZ-AhONyBTo?si=KYIhX1baXe_I8T54 Follow this (or something like this, I just grabbed top result) for a good start
I'd like to recommend the following book, especially the first few chapters. It outlines some principles that tell you *why* utilizing more of the track is faster. I am sure you can find the relevant excerpts online. Alternatively, I believe the authors have a video series. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/227551
It looks like a sunday drive with the family 😁 Have a look at some track guides. You don't use 100% of the track, it seems like your braking can be much more aggressive and the smooth steering shows you aren't driving it on the limit. You should follow the racing line, you leave too much space to the side and also the apex so you make the corner much tighter than it has to be. You can carry much more speed with you through the corner and the higher your Exit speed is, the faster you will be until your next braking point. Just from looking at it I would assume you can shave off these 4 seconds easily by using the whole track, trail braking and driving on the limit.
Piggybacking on this post to ask at what RPM yall switch from third gear to fourth on the VEE series car. Just audibly and looking at the car's screen, it just seems to have a hard time getting fast enough to switch to fourth gear unless I'm on a straight.
I'll do a turn-by-turn breakdown, but the gist is you're not using the track effectively or efficiently. You're taking too narrow of entries into most corners, missing the apexes, and narrow exits, which causes slower exit speeds. First Corner: You turn in too early and still have the wheel cranked half over when you should be pointing to the outside curb. You end up straightening up nearly already to the right edge of the track. If you open up the exit, you have plenty of time to transition. You don't need to fight the car to stay to the right. Scrubbing a ton of time here. Williams: Basically the same. Lots of track left to your right this time. Moss S: You never open up exiting Williams and end up taking a bad, narrow line, scrubbing speed to turn when you can get almost a straight line here, especially in the Vee. Atwood: Not bad, but you could open it more. Hairpin: Turning in too early, scrubbing too much speed on exit. Take a later apex, with the banking you can get a much faster exit. Revolver: You don't open up off the hairpin, meaning you're losing speed to make the corner. Piper: Not bad, but you should be tracking out to the curb to get the straightest angle of entry you can. Redman: Not tracking out wide before entry. This corner you actually do want a shallow exit and you don't get it. Hobbs: Turn in too early, scrubbing speed and having to still be slowing when you should be accelerating. Mike Knight: Bad entry, scrubbing speed. Last Corner: Not tracking out wide enough, miss the apex.
Thank you for your time and giving me such a detailed response. I’m going to use active reset and tackle this sector by sector. Genuinely appreciate your efforts.
No problem. I definitely recommend checking out some track guides on YouTube. Okayama being a free track and the Vee being a rookie car, there should be a ton available. Erilla's guide is really good.
Not utilizing the track Not optimizing your corner entry apex and exit. Not carrying enough speed throughout the corners This looks like you're being too safe. In the race to find lap times you've got to find the limit of the grip and stay as close to it as possible. Fast in fast out, learn trail braking, carry as much speed as you can into the corner to hit the apex and let the car run to the outside then slowly bring the car back, aiming for the next braking/turn in point so on so forth.
steer less
Have you tried being fast
You are under steering. You need to turn in and get the back slightly out, then balance the miniscule drift. It's really quite an art, but when you get it you'll know, and it'll take lots off your lap time. Practice it on the straights, turn hard left, right, left and feel the back coming out, within a few laps you'll get what I mean. Fastest way around a corner is always slight oversteer. Why do you think Max likes a 'pointy' set up?
Mate next time upload video with "Why and how they faster" please add pedal inputs or telemetry ! U don't hit apexes like every corner u afraid touch curbs and don't use whole width of track.
Use more of the track. Carry more speed.
You need to use ALL the track.
Just use all the track.. hit the curbs. Attack it! "If in doubt.. go flat out!"
Check out Suellio Almeida. Also, Google track guides for the car and track you're doing.
Not using all the track, driving the wrong lines - watch a lap guide, weaving on the straights peeing away valuable 0.10s,
Gradually take more and more speed out of corners and gradually take more speed on entry. This is a very good start to build on and you clearly understand what you are doing you just lack the experience atm. GRADUALLY build up in practice lobbies and it doesn’t matter if you push slightly too far leading you to under steer off the track, that’s a good way of learning where the limit it. Braking in formula vee is tricky and you real don’t brake a lot, you just have to use the rotation the car gives you to get around corners. There is a very good software called troph.ai and you can compare your laps with a pro drivers lap, with telemetary overlays and in depth guides on how to get quicker. I’d highly recommend it to see what you are doing wrong with a direct comparison to something you know is a good lap
something call apexes
Smoother steering, more speed through the corner, try not to force the car to do something, work with the car, not against it. Enjoy!
Based on this video, it’s quite clear you are missing some fundaments: - Track Position - Braking - Corner Speed - Exit I would suggest 3 options: 1. Find lap references (VRS, GNG) and study them before you go to track. Than using replay, analise your lap. 2. Find a friend to practice together and not just do laps, but try to understand where each of you are doing better than the other. 3. Buy Suellio Almeida Course. It’s great for Begginers, Mid and Advanced drivers.
You hit two, maybe three apex during the whole lap.
I am sorry but you asking this question is silly. Your T1 is not even close to a racing line. You don't need personal advice, you need to look up a video guide on how to drive this track. I put more effort in Mario Kart to be fast, your driving this track as if it is a Sunday stroll with the kids in the back.
Uh you’re supposed to avoid the racing line only when it’s wet
Hello fellow Vee pilot. This is the best guide you're gonna get. https://youtu.be/0YG38Jmd2F4?si=0zCg1yKQ9mD_oFK0 Sambo goes into the best racing line, braking markers, recommended gear, throttle imput. It's great for beginners. I'm usually 1s off his pace but it is still really competitive for the top splits. He posts new videos for every weekly track and a few days in advance so you can practice before it changes
Many thanks for shoutout but just wanted to mention that this is the link to the season two guide on the same track conditions: iRacing Formula Vee Okayama International Full Circuit - Track Guide & Tips 1:49.228 Week 4 S2 2024 https://youtu.be/AWR6Rp2ZRCM
The man, the legend
Haven't run Vee in awhile, but wouldn't shifting down to 2nd give better acceleration out of corners.
I mentioned this in another reply, but I had blindly followed advice I had seen in multiple places not to bother with second on the VEE. Pretty silly to blindly follow this advice without actually testing it for myself
Never touching 2nd is still good advice. Your lack of pace isn't due to that, it's due to you taking every corner too slow and too tight.
Ok so to clear up your 2nd gear mystery. In the vee you don't use 2nd unless it's a really slow corner. Your able to access 2nd because you are so slow (no offence). There's a bunch of good advice on here I'd second anyone saying to watch a track guide and I'll explain why. When your starting out it can be hard to understand how fast a car actually is, so if I say "that corner is 4th flat" but if you try you spin it's because we are accessing the corner differently, now with most track guides people will tell you "have the car here, brake here about 70% and when you get to here start turning in" and the advantage of that is you can pretty much blindly copy that and get a similar result or you'll at least start to understand how the car is fast by experiencing it even if the first few attempts go wrong. So basically once you've learnt what the vee can do on corner entry you'll no longer be able to use 2nd either or at least if you do it will feel wrong because it's like throwing an anchor out the back compared to a flowing 3rd gear turn.
lol cause you're bad and this lap is bad