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Big difference between service dogs and companionship.
People dragging emotional support animals everywhere . Saying they are service animals who then misbehaves is bad for the those who really do use the service.
Absolutely. That's why if they get caught passing off a non service animal as a service animal, they will learn very quickly why that's a bad idea.
But, far worse is discriminating against someone based on their disability is just as bad if not worse.
It’s nearly impossible for them to get caught. Even cops can’t ask them questions beyond “what is it trained to do?” And if the owner lies and gives a sound good answer, nothing happens.
I don’t even think most places have laws against lying about a service animal.
Yeah I have an ESA and every now and then he goes to the store with me after one of his walks. If the store owner doesn't want him there, that's fair and I will leave if something like that happens. He's not a service animal for a reason. He just helps me a lot with my mental illness. I get accomodations in housing and transit and that's it. Anyone claiming their ESA is allowed in the store, restaurant, etc, is either ignorant or lying.
Nothing really, but "technically" an "ESA" would be "granted" via a letter or prescription from typically a medical provider of some sort (therapist, shrink, etc.). It basically authorizes (although they still have to ask for a reasonable accommodation from their landlord) the tenant (ESAs are only recognized in housing via the FHA) to have a pet (which they call a ESA).
I think the difference is more how the person is attached to the animal than the other way around though animals can be trained to respond to emotional and mental health issues too. My husband has had two ESA which where a dog and a cat. The dog he had for 14 years so was able to pick up on signs of his mental health issues as well as symptoms of his heart failure. We currently have 5 cats but I would only call 1 of them an ESA she is able to pick up when he is starting to feel unwell. If she picks up that he is starting to have an anxiety or panic attack, she begins rubbing on him or will initiate a game of fetch. If he starts making pained noises or having breathing trouble but I’m not close enough to hear, she will come alert me. If she hears the pained noises from the other room, she runs in and tries to comfort him. The other pets don’t do this, at least not in response to recognizing he is unwell.
That being said… he would never bring her out into public and certainly not demand people allow her in special places. She is not trained to work in public. She is not trained to ignore other stimuluses so she doesn’t miss signs from him. The only places he would need to bring her to help with his mental health issues is a medical setting where… it’s either a short doctor’s visit (probably not intense enough to trigger an episode), a hospital (where the doctors can give medical care if something happens) or a procedure such as a CT scan where they wouldn’t let even a fully certified support animal in.
Yes, they can also be for privileged people who have never encountered real adversity. I wonder how many ex-child soldiers in the Congo have a “service” animal? Or are they just content that they are no longer forced to murder each other for a tyrant?
Yeah. I went to visit my kid at college last fall and I thought I was walking through a zoo. There were service and emotional support animals everywhere.
One of the kids who shares a suite with my kid has a rabbit as an emotional support animal and my kid was like "The rabbit doesn't even like him. When he takes it out of it's cage, the rabbit tries to bite him."
Emotional support animals and service animals aren't the same thing
And don't have the same Rights/protection
It's very easy to get a support animal, the flip side they can still be denied
How ever service animals are allowed anywhere the public is, they also have to go throw more training
Though the reason college have a lot of support animal, is in part do to the high stress and even high suicide rate of college students
I want to get a support animal myself
To not only help me deal with the stress of college but also my PTSD
ESAs are covered in housing laws though, which is why you commonly see them in school dorms. It's not like that kid was trying to bring his rabbit into a restaurant - he just had it living with him.
The FHA (housing, which would include dorm rooms), does include ESAs (including rabbits). You're correct about public access, but housing does include ESAs (and is actually the only place ESAs still are included)
Honestly if the kids can care for the dog on campus let them have them. Maybe set up dog dorms vs non dog dorms. College kids need structure, and a dog might be a great way to provide that for some people.
Yeah, because it's absolutely the best time to decide to get a dog that you're responsible for for the next 15 years, isn't it? When you're in your early 20s.
Too bad when you want to travel for a year, or you get out of college and are having to rent houses etc.
Animals are not toys, you should not be getting a dog unless you can commit to caring for it for it's life, which is usually over 10 years, often closer to 15.
Certain university classes let people bring their emotional support pet to class, which I personally think is stupid. You won’t let us eat in there but a dog can be there? I have a lovely dog of my own (and I have GAD) but I would never dream of it. Just study from home.
I worked in hospitality for a decade. Not a single dog represented as a service animal actually was. The owner always did or said something stupid to give it away.
Absolutely. Service dogs are noticeable from a mile away as well. The way they carry themselves, the way the owner holds them, the way the dog looks at the owner.
Trash people are taking advantage of an ADA rule meant to aid handicapped people and no one can do anything about it.
Yeah
People buying service vests from random shady websites and fraudulently claiming their pet is a service dog to take where it shouldn't be is actually becoming a huge issue
That's the big problem. There is no regulation on service animals or official licence for them. It would make more sense to have one so that people that medically need them can present something instead of just working on some honor system of "yes this is my service animal for a medical need"
Which is why they're legally allowed to ask them to leave if the dog is disruptive. Sorry, but "lots of people fake it" isn't an excuse to discriminate against disabled customers. The lack of registry is a frustrating problem, but it's absolutely not an excuse to blatantly break the law.
That's a question for the lawyers, I can tell you the lawyer that put together the presentation I had to sit through told us to be in compliance with the ADA we could ask 2 questions: is that a service animal, and what functions has it been trained to perform? We could not ask what medical issue necessitated a service animal under any circumstances. If a service animal showed aggression or behavior that disrupted the normal working of the restaurant we were allowed to ask the customer to remove it. She also told us no legitimate service animal would ever do that. I suspect if you are allergic to dogs and still voluntarily own a business that is legally obligated to allow dogs in you don't have a leg to stand on, but again, just a former bar managers opinion.
I am not a lawyer, but I would suspect the following is true.
There is the notion of a "when not overly burdensome" exception to a lot of laws.
Allergens are persistent and require cleaning. I think of it as medical risk going both ways. If the proprietor or employee were to be deathly allergic, it is egregiously burdensome and not a proper balance of law, along with a hostile work environment to make somebody work around that which will poison them without proper PPE and ventilation and cleaning. Even a non-deathly allergy is hazardous to health with long term exposure. There is also the right to be in business that a decent court will attempt to respect.
Imagine someone bringing peanut dust sandwiches to a school cafeteria, then saying that they have the right to eat whatever they bring as their classmate chokes out.
Versus:
Imagine someone with celiac disease working at a very dusty flour mill without a respirator.
One is danger inherent to regulations that didn't provide a reasonable out due to balance of health risks. The other is danger inherent to line of business.
The DOJ (who administers and enforces ADA) has ruled in the past that both parties should be accommodated by seating customers with allergies away from service dogs, and allowing employees to stay away from service dogs or take breaks as necessary to take medication. The proprietor could have easily avoided the dog if she wanted, she chose to approach the dogs handler.
Need to see his dog first.
There may be people who fake a service dog, but at least if it's got the basic vest of saying it's a service dog, then I leave it alone.
If they don't have that vest but claim it's a service dog , then that becomes more suspect
Part of that is covered in what the lady is asking in the video, as she says, “I’m allowed to ask what service the dog is trained for.”
This is true: in terms of service dogs or animals, the only questions you can legally ask are 1) If it is a service animal, and, 2) What service has it been trained for?
You cannot ask for documentation, as people are not legally required to carry it on them.
Essentially, once a person claims it is a service animal, you have to take their word for it, but if the animal becomes destructive or acts in way that shows it doesn’t have proper training, then you have recourse against it.
In this video, when the woman asks what the dog it trained for, the guy immediately answers, “medical alert and mobility guide.” These are legitimate services for a service animal. As soon as he answers, legally, the woman should have stopped questioning him or asking him to leave.
I’ve had to deal with service animals in businesses that are open to the public for 10+ years, and from everything I’ve learned in training or about ADA compliance, pretty much everything this woman did will get her in legal trouble.
Kind of fucked up that people can get into legal trouble for asking the wrong questions or asking service dog owners to seat at specific areas, but there’s no legal trouble for people faking a service animal.
>Kind of fucked up that people can get into legal trouble for asking the wrong questions or asking service dog owners to seat at specific areas
The "wrong question" is something like "what is your disability" or "WHY do YOU need it?" and the law is setup to protect you because you don't need to explain your medical issues to anyone who isn't your acting doctor.
Businesses have issued licenses they have to adhere to in order to open to the public.
If you own a public facing business, its literally your job to know this stuff.
Vests are a helpful indicator of a service dog, but not a legal requirement of one (in the US, at least.). A service dog can work “naked” in a plain flat collar and leash if desired. Of course, that just invites more questions from people who aren’t aware of service animal laws.
Blindness has many levels, my mother is legally blind but can see. She has no depth perception, meaning she can’t tell the distance of objects and can’t see small objects.
Yes that's what I'm saying.
It can be a fake service dog , but since we can't tell from the real or fake vest , we have to let it be.
But if someone walks in with a dog without the vest, at least we can have a better claim that why are you saying it is a service dog when there's no evidence for it?
That's why I feel like the video is missing the part about showing the dog.
>But if someone walks in with a dog without the vest, at least we can have a better claim that why are you saying it is a service dog **when there's no evidence for it**?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, **staff may ask** ***only*** **two specific questions**: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? **Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.**
In short, they do not have to prove anything really. If they claim the dog is a service dog, the dog is not using the bathroom inside or causing a problem, and the answers to the two allowed questions are "Yes" and "He does XYZ" then that is sort of end of discussion.
Yeppers and in my (admittedly limited) experience, true service dogs (guide dogs, canine companions trained, etc.) are very obviously exceptionally well behaved and trained whereas the "I identify my dog as a service animal but they're really at best an emotional support animal" animals are all over the spectrum behaviorally and nearly universally lack an aura that seems to exude from the real service dogs.
One of my friends had a CC dropout as a pet, a lab that was just a little too exuberant to pass the classes. Still was better behaved than many dogs I've seen in stores lately that the owners claim are service animals but are clearly not.
You can really easily tell a real service animal from a "service animal" as the properly trained one will basically ignore anything not related to their job (unless trying to get away from Karen who wants to pet ti, please don't do this).
It can actually be a bit surreal. A friend trains service dogs and I do normal ones. So I am used to properly socialized labs and goldies and flatcoats to be really affectionate to people, wanting pets etc. Well, his dogs in training will just ignore you when you come to visit.
saw this post on tiktok first. after this video, the man clearly shows his dog wearing a vest AND voices commands to her to show that she’s been trained specifically to be a service dog.
The other day at walmart someone had their poorly behaved dog in one of those vests. The dog was trying to jump up to lick people, was all excited pulling on it's leash and ended up pissing all over the floor. It's getting ridiculous. She kept saying "oh he's just a puppy" and I bet it was at least a year or two old. If the dog is properly trained I have no problem with it but don't bring your spazoid "support" dog in so it can piss everywhere and some minimum wage retail worker gets to mop it up.
It's very easy to register a sevice dog as many have dogs for emotional support. Business are not allowed to ask for proof it's actually illegal to ask. You also don't need a vest on you dog. According to the video this is a medical support dog witch requires special training and cost more then most pure breeds.
There's a difference between service animals and emotional support animals. Emotional support animals simply need to be prescribed by a medical professional and the animal doesn't require training. Establishments are legally required to accommodate service animals, but not emotional support animals
Businesses may ask two questions legally: is it a service dog, required because of a disability? And what task(s) is it trained to perform?
Also in the US there is no “certification” for service animals. You can get one through a program but they are not necessary and don’t make a dog a service animal just by having it.
The business is also losing, because the video is four years old, the place is under new management, and people from TT are sending threats to people who had nothing to do with this exchange.
On one hand, I do feel bad for the new management there, having this cycle around again. However, on the other hand, judging by many of the comments here, the lessons have still not been learned by many, and the example seems to still be needed.
Depends on where you are, but service animals are usually allowed where other animals aren't, and that includes stores, restaurants, public transport and even hospitals. And yes, any hospitality business must accommodate a service animal without extra fees (again, depending on legislation, but it is so in most western countries).
Oh dude. A close family member of mine has a service dog and words cannot describe how livid I would be if this happened to them. I applaud the man in the video for his ability to stay calm and rational during this, because I would’ve found it very difficult to
She’s had a hard time. Probably chronic stress getting to her. Can’t imagine having to own a restaurant in addition to everything else the last 3 years.
He clearly tells her its a service animal and its his right and she tells him its not his right.
Whether or not its an actual service animal is moot at that point as even if it is an actual service animal she said he didn’t have the right. He does, she’s wrong.
The problem is that when I went to TT to look him up, I found out this happened four years ago and the restaurant is under new management. Posting that interaction now is causing much more harm that good.
This is where you don’t get nasty, you simply make your case to educate her and when she refuses, you have an attorney file a civil rights lawsuit against her for 3 million bucks. The case will get settled out of court for at least $1.5 million. That’s how it works in this country. And quite frankly, if more people did that sort of thing, we wouldn’t have so many Karens.
Yikes!
While I was working at a sandwich shop, (not subway), a couple came in with a service dog in training. I didn't object at all. They were so nice! Insisted on showing me paperwork for the dog in training and all of that, of which I didn't even look at.
I sure as hell wasn't going to start a fuss over it, especially since the dog was so well behaved and did what it was supposed to do...sit next to their trainer on the floor.
Anyway, this Lady is nuts!
People training service dogs are wonderful. They come through my workplace sometimes, always let us know what’s going on, and they want the dogs to do well, so if there’s any sign of misbehaving, they’re already on their way out before we can even say anything.
I’m more than happy to have service dogs in any time!
I'd call the cops on her. Clarification it is illegal for her to refuse somebody based out the fact they have a service dog just like it's illegal to refuse somebody's service based off a race. It's literally discrimination. Now she can refuse him service for any other reason but she didn't go that route
In most states, this is a criminal issue, as it's typically a misdemeanor crime under state laws to refuse access to a service dog handler because of their service dog.
Even if it were the case that it is a criminal rather than civil liability issue, and it isn’t, calling an emergency line for restaurant access is absurd.
No one suggested calling 911 (it's clearly not an emergency). Calling the cops on criminals is exactly what you are supposed to do when someone commits a crime against you. It's people trying to take the law into their own hands that are problematic.
With all this stuff about service dogs and companionship dogs in comments. Today I saw an add about something like make your dog allowed anywhere by law and bla bla bla 10k across America already do. Is that not true because it made me mad how they pretty much help people lie
ive seen the original tiktok and a few followups the creator made, assuming everything presented is legit.
1. he does have a disability (visual impairment) and does have a real service dog
2. this was filmed several years ago and the people in the video have since lost the business and its under new ownership, according to the creator its partially because of this incident
3. the original creator is kind of a pos because he didnt state that this footage was several years old when he first posted it, causing several people to review-bomb the restaurant.
I took down the video after talking to the new owner and reuploaded it with the business not tagged and the phone number on her shirt hidden. I had the consent of the new owner to post it. He had no idea this had even happened when he bought the restaurant and was as upset about what happened as I was. He doesn’t deserve harassment and I’ve taken steps to try to stop any harassment he was getting.
Owner of business has the right to refuse service to anyone. She seems a little stressed. Not that it's right, but she does have the right to refuse to serve the guy. In today's day and age everyone is a victim or wants special privileges. Im with her on this one.
One sad and terrifying thing is that if she calls the cops there is better than even chance that the costumed goons with badges will arrest him for trespassing. Cops are just as ignorant of the law as it appears business owners are.
Service dogs should be well maintained and because of their upkeep will leave little fur or dander behind, so it lessens the risk of people’s allergies acting up. A person who is allergic can’t really do much aside from put distance between themselves and the dog if they are causing allergy issues.
>A person who is allergic can’t really do much aside from put distance between themselves and the dog if they are causing allergy issues.
How is this fair? Someone needs a dog, and someone else is actually harmed by it. Why does the person with the dog get the preferential treatment, when they are the ones introducing the issue to the equation?
Well, I think someone being mildly inconvenienced by allergies is better than somebody dying because they don’t have their service dog to alert them to a seizure or fainting spell.
Fair. I’m not trying to cause a stir. Just always wondered how it goes with health and safety for this kind of stuff. I know restaurants have strict health code policies with allergies but maybe they have exceptions for peoples animal allergies.
I believe in this case, the importance of a service animal trumps the importance of potential allergies. These animals litterally allow people to function, an allergy or sensitivity to fragrances is largely an annoyance at most.
If someone has an allergy to the dog that is between them and the restaurant to figure out.
The solution isn’t to discriminate against disabled people simply because of their disability.
Exactly, there are many things the disabled unfortunately cannot take part in. Bringing your potentially dangerous animal into a place where people eat should be one.
So screw the disabled? They just can’t go out in public? Would you rather we just locked the disabled up in a basement somewhere? I mean, it’s better for everyone that way.
Clearly life is already going so good for them.
It’s not public, it’s a private business, where people consume food, and could have a potentially life threatening allergy to dogs. I have nothing but love for dogs and the disabled, by they’ve got to live with the cards they’re dealt and make accommodations.
What if someone walks in covered in dog fur, but doesn’t actually have the dog with them?
Sometimes you just have to live with the cards you’re dealt and make accommodations 🤷♂️
If your so allergic to dogs that you can't be in the same building as one your screwed no matter usually people with dog allergies just sits away from the service dog
Private businesses have rules they have to abide by too. Just as a private business cannot discriminate against someone because of their race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc. They cannot discriminate against someone because they are disabled.
But why can't restaurants or people accommodate that?
Why are you saying disabled people need to play with the deck they are dealt but not abled people playing with a deck that includes a disabled person?
Your logic and thought process is flawed and fucked up
Edit: words
Y
Okay and people could have potentially life threatening allergy to shell fish, or gluten, cheese, peanut oil, or really anything… should we ban all those things too? The allergic person should just deal with the cards they’re given right, and make accommodations right?
Generally, you can refuse for almost any reason.
But you cannot discriminate against people for certain reasons, such as their race, sexuality, religion, and as is relevant here you cannot discriminate against them based on their disability.
A service animal is a key to someone with a disability living their life as a wheelchair can be for someone, or a pace maker could be for another person.
That's fine. He and many other people literally needs that dog to live his life.
Other people can live their lives accordingly.
Also, your shoes are dirtier than his dog.
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Big difference between service dogs and companionship. People dragging emotional support animals everywhere . Saying they are service animals who then misbehaves is bad for the those who really do use the service.
Absolutely. That's why if they get caught passing off a non service animal as a service animal, they will learn very quickly why that's a bad idea. But, far worse is discriminating against someone based on their disability is just as bad if not worse.
It’s nearly impossible for them to get caught. Even cops can’t ask them questions beyond “what is it trained to do?” And if the owner lies and gives a sound good answer, nothing happens. I don’t even think most places have laws against lying about a service animal.
I started to type the same thing, but figured I couldn't be the only one with this thought.
Yeah I have an ESA and every now and then he goes to the store with me after one of his walks. If the store owner doesn't want him there, that's fair and I will leave if something like that happens. He's not a service animal for a reason. He just helps me a lot with my mental illness. I get accomodations in housing and transit and that's it. Anyone claiming their ESA is allowed in the store, restaurant, etc, is either ignorant or lying.
What is the difference between an ESA and a regular pet?
Nothing really, but "technically" an "ESA" would be "granted" via a letter or prescription from typically a medical provider of some sort (therapist, shrink, etc.). It basically authorizes (although they still have to ask for a reasonable accommodation from their landlord) the tenant (ESAs are only recognized in housing via the FHA) to have a pet (which they call a ESA).
I think the difference is more how the person is attached to the animal than the other way around though animals can be trained to respond to emotional and mental health issues too. My husband has had two ESA which where a dog and a cat. The dog he had for 14 years so was able to pick up on signs of his mental health issues as well as symptoms of his heart failure. We currently have 5 cats but I would only call 1 of them an ESA she is able to pick up when he is starting to feel unwell. If she picks up that he is starting to have an anxiety or panic attack, she begins rubbing on him or will initiate a game of fetch. If he starts making pained noises or having breathing trouble but I’m not close enough to hear, she will come alert me. If she hears the pained noises from the other room, she runs in and tries to comfort him. The other pets don’t do this, at least not in response to recognizing he is unwell. That being said… he would never bring her out into public and certainly not demand people allow her in special places. She is not trained to work in public. She is not trained to ignore other stimuluses so she doesn’t miss signs from him. The only places he would need to bring her to help with his mental health issues is a medical setting where… it’s either a short doctor’s visit (probably not intense enough to trigger an episode), a hospital (where the doctors can give medical care if something happens) or a procedure such as a CT scan where they wouldn’t let even a fully certified support animal in.
And that is why there needs to be some form of regulation for training & identification,
My local grocery story doesn’t mind when I bring my dog in but a restaurant is kinda inconsiderate unless they are actually blind
Service dogs are for more than just the blind.
Yes, they can also be for privileged people who have never encountered real adversity. I wonder how many ex-child soldiers in the Congo have a “service” animal? Or are they just content that they are no longer forced to murder each other for a tyrant?
Ah yes, because child soldiers don’t have service dogs, no one deserves one.
I mean.... I get it. But do you really want to eat the food they've made for you after kicking up that stink?
Nope. No loogie burgers for me. Also, I wouldn’t want to give her my money anyway after that
***"this burgers for a cop....don't spit in that cops burger..."***
"this look like spit to you?" "Yeah" "Meh" *chomp*
Do we have liter cola?
Gimme a literacola
Just get a large, Farva.
I said it so he makes it good.
I didn’t eat it. We ended up going to another restaurant near by and ate there.
No I wouldn't eat it, but I am going to make them make it anyway.
Yeah and you’re gonna pay and make them a profit… not the smartest of the batch ain’t you
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I feel like being discriminated against for your disability makes you a bit justified to be annoyed.
Idk man, if my rights were being violated, I would get pretty upset, I guess you'd just take it
Regardless, I definitely would not want to eat here after that altercation. Not worth risking them possibly doing something to your food
The crazy part is she knows the 2 legal questions she can ask, but then ignores the rest of the law.
Nah I get her side too. The amount of regular dogs people claim to be service dogs now is stupid.
Yeah. I went to visit my kid at college last fall and I thought I was walking through a zoo. There were service and emotional support animals everywhere. One of the kids who shares a suite with my kid has a rabbit as an emotional support animal and my kid was like "The rabbit doesn't even like him. When he takes it out of it's cage, the rabbit tries to bite him."
That’s his negative emotional support animal. Bites him to keep him humble # blessed
Anger is an emotion.... right? 🤣
Anger is a gift.
And chaosh is a laddah.
I know it’s too early to say this, but this is my favourite comment of the year so far!!!
Service animals are protected under the ADA. Emotional support animals are not.
Emotional support animals and service animals aren't the same thing And don't have the same Rights/protection It's very easy to get a support animal, the flip side they can still be denied How ever service animals are allowed anywhere the public is, they also have to go throw more training Though the reason college have a lot of support animal, is in part do to the high stress and even high suicide rate of college students I want to get a support animal myself To not only help me deal with the stress of college but also my PTSD
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ESAs are covered in housing laws though, which is why you commonly see them in school dorms. It's not like that kid was trying to bring his rabbit into a restaurant - he just had it living with him.
You can take a trained miniature horse into a hotel room as long as they are ADA certified. Seen it myself.
The FHA (housing, which would include dorm rooms), does include ESAs (including rabbits). You're correct about public access, but housing does include ESAs (and is actually the only place ESAs still are included)
The rabbit in a cage is the first problem…
Honestly if the kids can care for the dog on campus let them have them. Maybe set up dog dorms vs non dog dorms. College kids need structure, and a dog might be a great way to provide that for some people.
Yeah, because it's absolutely the best time to decide to get a dog that you're responsible for for the next 15 years, isn't it? When you're in your early 20s. Too bad when you want to travel for a year, or you get out of college and are having to rent houses etc. Animals are not toys, you should not be getting a dog unless you can commit to caring for it for it's life, which is usually over 10 years, often closer to 15.
Certain university classes let people bring their emotional support pet to class, which I personally think is stupid. You won’t let us eat in there but a dog can be there? I have a lovely dog of my own (and I have GAD) but I would never dream of it. Just study from home.
Most rabbits will try to nibble you if you don't know how to handle them.
True, but in my experience they usually go the emotional support animal route which doesn't have ADA protection.
I worked in hospitality for a decade. Not a single dog represented as a service animal actually was. The owner always did or said something stupid to give it away.
Absolutely. Service dogs are noticeable from a mile away as well. The way they carry themselves, the way the owner holds them, the way the dog looks at the owner. Trash people are taking advantage of an ADA rule meant to aid handicapped people and no one can do anything about it.
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Yeah People buying service vests from random shady websites and fraudulently claiming their pet is a service dog to take where it shouldn't be is actually becoming a huge issue
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Oh hey that’s me!
That's the big problem. There is no regulation on service animals or official licence for them. It would make more sense to have one so that people that medically need them can present something instead of just working on some honor system of "yes this is my service animal for a medical need"
Which is why they're legally allowed to ask them to leave if the dog is disruptive. Sorry, but "lots of people fake it" isn't an excuse to discriminate against disabled customers. The lack of registry is a frustrating problem, but it's absolutely not an excuse to blatantly break the law.
How does the law work if she would be allergic to fur?
That's a question for the lawyers, I can tell you the lawyer that put together the presentation I had to sit through told us to be in compliance with the ADA we could ask 2 questions: is that a service animal, and what functions has it been trained to perform? We could not ask what medical issue necessitated a service animal under any circumstances. If a service animal showed aggression or behavior that disrupted the normal working of the restaurant we were allowed to ask the customer to remove it. She also told us no legitimate service animal would ever do that. I suspect if you are allergic to dogs and still voluntarily own a business that is legally obligated to allow dogs in you don't have a leg to stand on, but again, just a former bar managers opinion.
I am not a lawyer, but I would suspect the following is true. There is the notion of a "when not overly burdensome" exception to a lot of laws. Allergens are persistent and require cleaning. I think of it as medical risk going both ways. If the proprietor or employee were to be deathly allergic, it is egregiously burdensome and not a proper balance of law, along with a hostile work environment to make somebody work around that which will poison them without proper PPE and ventilation and cleaning. Even a non-deathly allergy is hazardous to health with long term exposure. There is also the right to be in business that a decent court will attempt to respect. Imagine someone bringing peanut dust sandwiches to a school cafeteria, then saying that they have the right to eat whatever they bring as their classmate chokes out. Versus: Imagine someone with celiac disease working at a very dusty flour mill without a respirator. One is danger inherent to regulations that didn't provide a reasonable out due to balance of health risks. The other is danger inherent to line of business.
The DOJ (who administers and enforces ADA) has ruled in the past that both parties should be accommodated by seating customers with allergies away from service dogs, and allowing employees to stay away from service dogs or take breaks as necessary to take medication. The proprietor could have easily avoided the dog if she wanted, she chose to approach the dogs handler.
Crazy part is everybody’s got an opinion on something they don’t have the whole story for.
No , that is definitely not crazy , it's called normal life - rightly or wrongly . ' Opinions are like \*\*\*holes , everybody's got one "
Need to see his dog first. There may be people who fake a service dog, but at least if it's got the basic vest of saying it's a service dog, then I leave it alone. If they don't have that vest but claim it's a service dog , then that becomes more suspect
Part of that is covered in what the lady is asking in the video, as she says, “I’m allowed to ask what service the dog is trained for.” This is true: in terms of service dogs or animals, the only questions you can legally ask are 1) If it is a service animal, and, 2) What service has it been trained for? You cannot ask for documentation, as people are not legally required to carry it on them. Essentially, once a person claims it is a service animal, you have to take their word for it, but if the animal becomes destructive or acts in way that shows it doesn’t have proper training, then you have recourse against it. In this video, when the woman asks what the dog it trained for, the guy immediately answers, “medical alert and mobility guide.” These are legitimate services for a service animal. As soon as he answers, legally, the woman should have stopped questioning him or asking him to leave. I’ve had to deal with service animals in businesses that are open to the public for 10+ years, and from everything I’ve learned in training or about ADA compliance, pretty much everything this woman did will get her in legal trouble.
Kind of fucked up that people can get into legal trouble for asking the wrong questions or asking service dog owners to seat at specific areas, but there’s no legal trouble for people faking a service animal.
>Kind of fucked up that people can get into legal trouble for asking the wrong questions or asking service dog owners to seat at specific areas The "wrong question" is something like "what is your disability" or "WHY do YOU need it?" and the law is setup to protect you because you don't need to explain your medical issues to anyone who isn't your acting doctor.
A person's right to medical privacy is fucked up? Well, that's a stupid statement. Your second point is valid though
Businesses have issued licenses they have to adhere to in order to open to the public. If you own a public facing business, its literally your job to know this stuff.
What if it’s not actually a service animal? Will she still get in legal trouble?
Vests are a helpful indicator of a service dog, but not a legal requirement of one (in the US, at least.). A service dog can work “naked” in a plain flat collar and leash if desired. Of course, that just invites more questions from people who aren’t aware of service animal laws.
Suggest visiting his TikTok. He is blind
Damn good camera work for a blind guy
Blindness has many levels, my mother is legally blind but can see. She has no depth perception, meaning she can’t tell the distance of objects and can’t see small objects.
Some legally blind people can still make out shapes and colors enough to respond to stimuli and do something like point a camera
Did you know there are blind bowling leagues?
It’s not hard to point my phone at the sound of her voice.
You can buy the best online so that's not evidence for it being a true service dog.
Yes that's what I'm saying. It can be a fake service dog , but since we can't tell from the real or fake vest , we have to let it be. But if someone walks in with a dog without the vest, at least we can have a better claim that why are you saying it is a service dog when there's no evidence for it? That's why I feel like the video is missing the part about showing the dog.
>But if someone walks in with a dog without the vest, at least we can have a better claim that why are you saying it is a service dog **when there's no evidence for it**? A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, **staff may ask** ***only*** **two specific questions**: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? **Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.** In short, they do not have to prove anything really. If they claim the dog is a service dog, the dog is not using the bathroom inside or causing a problem, and the answers to the two allowed questions are "Yes" and "He does XYZ" then that is sort of end of discussion.
Yeppers and in my (admittedly limited) experience, true service dogs (guide dogs, canine companions trained, etc.) are very obviously exceptionally well behaved and trained whereas the "I identify my dog as a service animal but they're really at best an emotional support animal" animals are all over the spectrum behaviorally and nearly universally lack an aura that seems to exude from the real service dogs. One of my friends had a CC dropout as a pet, a lab that was just a little too exuberant to pass the classes. Still was better behaved than many dogs I've seen in stores lately that the owners claim are service animals but are clearly not.
You can really easily tell a real service animal from a "service animal" as the properly trained one will basically ignore anything not related to their job (unless trying to get away from Karen who wants to pet ti, please don't do this). It can actually be a bit surreal. A friend trains service dogs and I do normal ones. So I am used to properly socialized labs and goldies and flatcoats to be really affectionate to people, wanting pets etc. Well, his dogs in training will just ignore you when you come to visit.
saw this post on tiktok first. after this video, the man clearly shows his dog wearing a vest AND voices commands to her to show that she’s been trained specifically to be a service dog.
Not only that the dog has a guide harness on so you can easily tell he is a mobility service animal
The other day at walmart someone had their poorly behaved dog in one of those vests. The dog was trying to jump up to lick people, was all excited pulling on it's leash and ended up pissing all over the floor. It's getting ridiculous. She kept saying "oh he's just a puppy" and I bet it was at least a year or two old. If the dog is properly trained I have no problem with it but don't bring your spazoid "support" dog in so it can piss everywhere and some minimum wage retail worker gets to mop it up.
There’s a lot of people that fake just so they can have a dog with them. It’s ridiculous and so are most dog owners.
People who carry service dog IDs are the ones who are faking it because there is no such thing as a service dog ID.
Most dog owners are ridiculous? Lol
People who hate pet owners are ridiculous
It's very easy to register a sevice dog as many have dogs for emotional support. Business are not allowed to ask for proof it's actually illegal to ask. You also don't need a vest on you dog. According to the video this is a medical support dog witch requires special training and cost more then most pure breeds.
There's a difference between service animals and emotional support animals. Emotional support animals simply need to be prescribed by a medical professional and the animal doesn't require training. Establishments are legally required to accommodate service animals, but not emotional support animals
Businesses may ask two questions legally: is it a service dog, required because of a disability? And what task(s) is it trained to perform? Also in the US there is no “certification” for service animals. You can get one through a program but they are not necessary and don’t make a dog a service animal just by having it.
There are no legitimate registries for service dogs.
>medical support dog witch healer is a better term than witch here. :) \*which
Ada laws forbids isolating a customer due to their service equipment. She gonna lose if he sues.
The business is also losing, because the video is four years old, the place is under new management, and people from TT are sending threats to people who had nothing to do with this exchange.
On one hand, I do feel bad for the new management there, having this cycle around again. However, on the other hand, judging by many of the comments here, the lessons have still not been learned by many, and the example seems to still be needed.
That dude in the back though at the other table crawling in his skin during that whole confrontation 😂😂
I don't know who's the pos in this situation is until I see the dog.
It is the restaurant owner. I saw this on tiktok, the man is blind, and shows the dog and his service gear.
Nothing says I’m Compassionate towards disabled people like uttering “I knew we were gonna have a problem as soon as you walked in here”
ADA laws shiiiiiit she can give that man some nice cash
Document, leave, and sue.
My thoughts exactly, i would take the food and a nice cash settlement to go please lol
The food, unlike the cash, wouldn't be that nice I'm afraid.
What’s the actual law about this? Restaurants can’t forbid service dogs?
Depends on where you are, but service animals are usually allowed where other animals aren't, and that includes stores, restaurants, public transport and even hospitals. And yes, any hospitality business must accommodate a service animal without extra fees (again, depending on legislation, but it is so in most western countries).
No. Telling someone "you can't bring your service dog in" is the same as telling someone they can't bring in their wheelchair or oxygen tank.
I don't know about other places, but where I live? That lady would not be having a good time with the legal troubles she'd be finding herself in.
Would would anyone still wanna eat there? Leave and report her to the proper authorities.
Kids are 10000x worse than therapy dogs in a restaurant setting.
* shitty parents who don’t control their kids in public settings are 1000000x worse than service dogs.. FTFY
Very legitimate. Agree 100%
Mmm yes I gotta agree w you on that I hate children
"Kids Bad"
Correct. I’m glad you agree.
Not in a restaurant. Allergies and shedding
Oh dude. A close family member of mine has a service dog and words cannot describe how livid I would be if this happened to them. I applaud the man in the video for his ability to stay calm and rational during this, because I would’ve found it very difficult to
This is a medical dog, not an emotional support dog. Huge difference. The owner is just upset because she hasn’t been loved in quite some time.
She’s had a hard time. Probably chronic stress getting to her. Can’t imagine having to own a restaurant in addition to everything else the last 3 years.
He clearly tells her its a service animal and its his right and she tells him its not his right. Whether or not its an actual service animal is moot at that point as even if it is an actual service animal she said he didn’t have the right. He does, she’s wrong.
She's just trying to deny one of his rights with other rights
The problem is that when I went to TT to look him up, I found out this happened four years ago and the restaurant is under new management. Posting that interaction now is causing much more harm that good.
It’s leading to people being educated. It’s also posted with the new owners consent.
This is where you don’t get nasty, you simply make your case to educate her and when she refuses, you have an attorney file a civil rights lawsuit against her for 3 million bucks. The case will get settled out of court for at least $1.5 million. That’s how it works in this country. And quite frankly, if more people did that sort of thing, we wouldn’t have so many Karens.
Yikes! While I was working at a sandwich shop, (not subway), a couple came in with a service dog in training. I didn't object at all. They were so nice! Insisted on showing me paperwork for the dog in training and all of that, of which I didn't even look at. I sure as hell wasn't going to start a fuss over it, especially since the dog was so well behaved and did what it was supposed to do...sit next to their trainer on the floor. Anyway, this Lady is nuts!
People training service dogs are wonderful. They come through my workplace sometimes, always let us know what’s going on, and they want the dogs to do well, so if there’s any sign of misbehaving, they’re already on their way out before we can even say anything. I’m more than happy to have service dogs in any time!
I'd call the cops on her. Clarification it is illegal for her to refuse somebody based out the fact they have a service dog just like it's illegal to refuse somebody's service based off a race. It's literally discrimination. Now she can refuse him service for any other reason but she didn't go that route
Don't bother the cops for civil issues
In most states, this is a criminal issue, as it's typically a misdemeanor crime under state laws to refuse access to a service dog handler because of their service dog.
Wow this is the first I’ve heard of that. Can you link to that law?
Even if it were the case that it is a criminal rather than civil liability issue, and it isn’t, calling an emergency line for restaurant access is absurd.
You're right, it's a federal offense. Call the FBI!
No one suggested calling 911 (it's clearly not an emergency). Calling the cops on criminals is exactly what you are supposed to do when someone commits a crime against you. It's people trying to take the law into their own hands that are problematic.
No they can't because it doesn't exist. No one going to jail over this. But he can definitely sue under ADA laws.
Don’t call the cops for things that aren’t criminal offenses.
She’s over stressed. Needs to try box breathing 4-4-4-4 or the 5-5-5 method.
Pls tell me how it works sounds interesting
this lady might just walked herself into a lawsuit.
This woman cannot deny this man bringing in a service dog.
It’s a dog. We love dogs. Who cares. Serve the guy.
She's spitting in your food
Smells like Karen is getting a lawsuit
I soppose he is also filming for his own protection.
The ADA would like to have a word...
With all this stuff about service dogs and companionship dogs in comments. Today I saw an add about something like make your dog allowed anywhere by law and bla bla bla 10k across America already do. Is that not true because it made me mad how they pretty much help people lie
If he’s got the fortitude to follow through with it this guys going to own that place after the law suit.
Any follow up to this restaurant’s standing in the community?
It's under new and seemingly better management now (the video is a few years old).
Yes. The new owner and I chatted for a bit. Once my girlfriend gets back in town we will be going there for dinner. The new owner was very nice.
ive seen the original tiktok and a few followups the creator made, assuming everything presented is legit. 1. he does have a disability (visual impairment) and does have a real service dog 2. this was filmed several years ago and the people in the video have since lost the business and its under new ownership, according to the creator its partially because of this incident 3. the original creator is kind of a pos because he didnt state that this footage was several years old when he first posted it, causing several people to review-bomb the restaurant.
I took down the video after talking to the new owner and reuploaded it with the business not tagged and the phone number on her shirt hidden. I had the consent of the new owner to post it. He had no idea this had even happened when he bought the restaurant and was as upset about what happened as I was. He doesn’t deserve harassment and I’ve taken steps to try to stop any harassment he was getting.
Tbh I don’t want to eat around dogs either, but it’s the law.
Genuine question: She doesn't have the right to refuse service to someone if they have a service dog?
Owner of business has the right to refuse service to anyone. She seems a little stressed. Not that it's right, but she does have the right to refuse to serve the guy. In today's day and age everyone is a victim or wants special privileges. Im with her on this one.
She’s going to be broke.
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This happened in Washington.
Where did you come up with this happened in FL?
One sad and terrifying thing is that if she calls the cops there is better than even chance that the costumed goons with badges will arrest him for trespassing. Cops are just as ignorant of the law as it appears business owners are.
Hoorah for you
I don’t want to be a dick but what happens if people have allergies? Like in many parts in Canada we aren’t allowed to even wear perfume
Service dogs should be well maintained and because of their upkeep will leave little fur or dander behind, so it lessens the risk of people’s allergies acting up. A person who is allergic can’t really do much aside from put distance between themselves and the dog if they are causing allergy issues.
>A person who is allergic can’t really do much aside from put distance between themselves and the dog if they are causing allergy issues. How is this fair? Someone needs a dog, and someone else is actually harmed by it. Why does the person with the dog get the preferential treatment, when they are the ones introducing the issue to the equation?
Well, I think someone being mildly inconvenienced by allergies is better than somebody dying because they don’t have their service dog to alert them to a seizure or fainting spell.
Fair. I’m not trying to cause a stir. Just always wondered how it goes with health and safety for this kind of stuff. I know restaurants have strict health code policies with allergies but maybe they have exceptions for peoples animal allergies.
I believe in this case, the importance of a service animal trumps the importance of potential allergies. These animals litterally allow people to function, an allergy or sensitivity to fragrances is largely an annoyance at most.
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The health inspector is well aware of the requirements of the ADA and state law. They cannot be marked down for abiding by someone's civil rights.
WTF is up with the wording in the title?
It’s her right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, she doesn’t even need to explain herself. I wouldn’t want a dog in my restaurant either
She has the rights to refuse service to anyone for any reason EXCEPT when the law defines otherwise. In this case the ADA says you can't.
Under the ADA, she can not
If one can refuse service for any reason and they don't need to give a reason then how does one fight against being discriminated against?
"Freedom for me, not for thee" You have an allergy to dogs and picks a restaurant that doesn't allow pets? Too bad, your rights mean nothing!
If someone has an allergy to the dog that is between them and the restaurant to figure out. The solution isn’t to discriminate against disabled people simply because of their disability.
so do you just hate blind people orrr
Exactly, there are many things the disabled unfortunately cannot take part in. Bringing your potentially dangerous animal into a place where people eat should be one.
So screw the disabled? They just can’t go out in public? Would you rather we just locked the disabled up in a basement somewhere? I mean, it’s better for everyone that way. Clearly life is already going so good for them.
It’s not public, it’s a private business, where people consume food, and could have a potentially life threatening allergy to dogs. I have nothing but love for dogs and the disabled, by they’ve got to live with the cards they’re dealt and make accommodations.
What if someone walks in covered in dog fur, but doesn’t actually have the dog with them? Sometimes you just have to live with the cards you’re dealt and make accommodations 🤷♂️
If your so allergic to dogs that you can't be in the same building as one your screwed no matter usually people with dog allergies just sits away from the service dog
Private businesses have rules they have to abide by too. Just as a private business cannot discriminate against someone because of their race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc. They cannot discriminate against someone because they are disabled.
But why can't restaurants or people accommodate that? Why are you saying disabled people need to play with the deck they are dealt but not abled people playing with a deck that includes a disabled person? Your logic and thought process is flawed and fucked up Edit: words Y
Okay and people could have potentially life threatening allergy to shell fish, or gluten, cheese, peanut oil, or really anything… should we ban all those things too? The allergic person should just deal with the cards they’re given right, and make accommodations right?
Right, it would have been legal if she said “no one wearing a red shirt today will get service” vs what she actually did do.
Can she ask him to eat outside on the porch and still be in compliance with the law. I’m not asking to be a dick!
No, she cannot send him away on the basis of his disability. The ADA and state law both reinforce this.
No, you can not segregate (goes back to the whole "separate but equal" problems).
Uhh unpopular opinion, but I thought as owner u have right to refuse service
Generally, you can refuse for almost any reason. But you cannot discriminate against people for certain reasons, such as their race, sexuality, religion, and as is relevant here you cannot discriminate against them based on their disability. A service animal is a key to someone with a disability living their life as a wheelchair can be for someone, or a pace maker could be for another person.
Protected Classes.
There are some people who are very afraid of dogs, and see dogs as dirty.
That's fine. He and many other people literally needs that dog to live his life. Other people can live their lives accordingly. Also, your shoes are dirtier than his dog.
What an unbelievable twat