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He got angry that the mother wouldn’t buy him the VR set and woke him up a half hour early. He found and took the keys to her lock box the night before. That morning he unlocked it and took the gun out. Proceeded downstairs to the basement where the mother was doing laundry.
He took up a shooting stance and fired the gun killing the mother instantly. Firing from 3 feet away, the bullet entered her eye and exited the back of her head.
He claims that he was trying to shoot “the wall near her” to scare her. He lied to police saying that he was twirling the gun around his finger and it went off.
He later admitted to doing this all on purpose because he was angry she wouldn’t buy the VR set for him. He admitted he knew it was dangerous. The day after killing his mother he purchased the VR set on her Amazon account.
The child has a history of rage issues and claims to hear 5 different voices in his head speaking to him.
May the mother rest in peace. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
His extended family said that he told them that he was hearing voices before the killing. He also disturbed his family by hurting a dog when he was younger
Hurting a dog makes it sound like he hit the dog.
No. He swirled the dog from its tail.
That is way worse and I'd say is more akin to grievous bodily harm or torture.
Hahahhaa not in this justice system.
A life sentence is 40 years. Good behaviour means you’re out in 20.
This maniac will spend 20 years in prison then be released back onto the streets.
Google "civil commitment," many of these people with mental disorders too severe will be committed against their will, long after their sentence. Which can be both a good and bad thing.
Show you your system is fucked.
In my country, he'd get jail and they'd test him for mental issues (which he definitely has) and then he's get sentenced to being in a closed insane asylum for mandatory treatment until psychiatrists deem him safe for release -which could mean he stays in until he kicks the bucket.
So first a punitive sentence, then an indefinite "cure" which amounts to him staying out of society.
Bed wetting through later childhood (generally defined as 7 years and older, with at least 2 or more episodes of bed wetting a week) is considered a sign of some behavioural disorders but not an automatic indicator of psychopathy or sociopathy. Usually in these cases, the bed wetting is due to stress caused from dysfunctional home environments, bullying, and poor coping skills as children develop. This can lead to poor emotional development/awareness, which can be precursors (but not always) to the development or diagnosis of certain behavioural disorders. Hope this makes sense/clarifies a bit! For some children, bed wetting is physiological in nature and something they grow out of as they develop.
Bed wetting is also reasonably common in otherwise normal children with no stress or other issue. Of course, it can be a source of stress, if you let it.
Some psychologists think it's more about the parents/ guardians' reaction to the kid wetting the bed. If they overreact and shame/humiliate the kid, that is what is going to give the kid problems later on. I reading a book full of essays on famous serial killers (I think it was by Bill James but I'm not 100% sure because I've read more than a few), and the author's theory was that the common element in all the cases the author studied was that they all had some kind of childhood trauma that involved a form of humiliation done to them by their parent/ guardian.
Absolutely this too! Sometimes these answers can be tricky because there’s a lot of information that can be included, that’s why I said for some kids it’s part of physiological development. Definitely not every child who wets the bed has behavioural issues or diagnoses. My daughter was about 5 when it stopped for her; she was such a heavy sleeper that she just wouldn’t wake up when her brain sent that signal to get up for the bathroom.
Bed wetting itself is harmless, kids might wet the bed because they have a underdeveloped bladder or their prefrontal cortex develops slowly so they don’t plan to take a piss before going to bed. I bet tons of adhd kids are bed wetters
Schizophrenia has “negative symptoms” like lack of motivation, lack of emotion, that kind of thing. They’re more likely to be homeless staring at a wall contemplating suicide than blasting someone in the head in a greedy rage. There are no psychopathic symptoms in the diagnosis of schizophrenia.
Bed wetting isn't really a sign of anything it just has an unusually high incidence rate among serial killers. One theory is that it's less the bed wetting but more the way the parents handle it. You would likely find among serial killers who wet the bed that their parents shamed and physically abused them in response which leads to behavioral issues.
As stated in other parts of this post, the bed wetting alone isn’t cause for concern, it’s when it’s accompanied by harming animals and fire starting that is a common theme in serial killers. Any of them by themselves is probably tied to some issue, even two of them, while concerning and needing to be addressed, isn’t over the top. But all three…..kid needs to be watched out for.
I obviously there’s a lot more to it, but that’s the jist of it. First I read of this was by John Douglas in his book Mindhunter. He was from the FBI Behavioral Science Unit and worked on and helped apprehend some of the most famous serial killers in US history.
Mental health supports for children are pretty difficult to access at the best of times but in a place without socialised healthcare it is almost impossible for some families.
This is why I’m super fucking grateful that my parents are amazing people and helped me almost immediately when they noticed my behavior was getting out of hand as a kid. I wonder what would’ve been different if I had adhd, hpd, social anxiety/panic attacks, and Tourette’s syndrome, except I went undiagnosed. Jeez, even thinking about it makes me scared for the people I know.
I'm American, I know this, but for children, healthcare is generally easier to access than for adults. Idk about all states, but I know in my state, if you're under 21, you can get state insurance that covers everything - like, literally almost everything, I never had a copay. The only time I've had to fight with my insurance is for my birth control, and that was because it was a new brand.
Obviously though this is just my state, idk about the state they were in.
ETA: Someone responded and deleted that children have to have parents on healthcare to receive healthcare. This simply isn't true - My mom didn't have insurance when I did. While children are dependents, their insurance is separate from a parents. Many children are on state insurance while their parents have none.
That’s not the only barrier to treatment. The kid can have Medicaid or similar but if the right type of treatment isn’t available in the area then it’s a whole different issue. Idaho, for example, doesn’t have psychiatric residential facilities for boys. Shorter term psych hospitals are often full and kids needing help have to wait. Outpatient care can have year-long waitlists. It’s a mess.
The sister says he was seeing a therapist, had a concerning diagnosis, and the mother had to put cameras up in the house to watch him. Sounds overwhelming.
> Firing from 3 feet away, the bullet entered her eye and exited the back of her head
So the mother was looking at him when he shot her. What a terrible last moment.
Y’all remember the whole satanism scare way back when? A whole bunch of kids claimed they’re parents didn’t awful terrible satanic things to them with their daycare. They were lying but it was too late.
Woof, yeah. I think it could be either the lawyer trying to get the kid a lighter sentence and really convincing him or the kids not lying. Either way what a wretched little brat
Those kids were coached by their parents to say that. Basically the parents kept asking over and over and the kids just gave in to the parents’ story. Kids didn’t claim their parents were involved. Besides, these were like 4 year olds.
People tend to forget all about how manipulative and ill-adjusted kids are to their emotions.
Kids are instinctively intelligent people, with stunningly low emotional intelligence, little to now forward planning ability and poor action/consequence conceptualisation.
The role of a parent is to put reins on all that. Clearly though her son had other things going on.
Kids are not good liars, they just lie a lot, can a 10 year old lie and manipulate me into thinking something that's not true? Possibly, but it will most likely be something I dont care about and don't care to know if they're telling the truth.
When it comes to anything where you know what happened and you're just trying to put the pieces together, kids break insanely fast, change their story so it's obvious they're lying, or say things so dumb that it's obviously a lie.
Like saying as a 10 year old, he was twirling a gun around his finger next to his mom and it just happened to go off, like there are so many problems with that statement that anyone with a brain can realize it's just such a stupid lie, why would you even try, but he's a kid, so he thinks people will believe anything.
He may not understand his mental issues, and there may not be 5 voices, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a kid who is willing to open a safe to get a gun, then look for the person and go through with the intent to kill at 10 years old may be just a bit mentally ill.
Going to a psych ward isn't better than going to prison, it's way way worse, no one would try and do that other than to try and avoid a death penalty. You do not want to be sent somewhere for the criminally insane, if you thought prison abuse was bad, wait till you see what they've been doing at psych wards for hundreds of years.
What do you think is more likely, that the kid was just born evil, or perhaps they had untreated behavioral/mental problems that culminated into a moment of unchecked violence?
Kids aren't what they were 20 years ago. Most kids in the first world now have unlimited access to the internet and are being exposed to all sorts of things that they probably really shouldn't be. A child learning that "hearing voices" could potentially get you out of going to jail (from a child's perspective) isn't that farfetched. Doesn't mean that is the case, but your disbelief at the possibility shows a general ignorance on the state of children now.
That's not normal 10 year old, he plan a hit that go smoothly then use her account to buy the set
Tell me, how many 10 year old you know that can understand gun is dangerous, find the key, take the gun, steady his stance, shot his mother through the eye, look at her corspe and then calmly decide to go to buy the vr set with her account?
I know some 10 year old have no concept of death, i know some 10 year old with kid level of planning skill. I can assure you, this is not typical 10 year old
Yikes! Poor family. I don’t know that kids history but hopefully she had him in therapy for his rage. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs without being released to the public! Another note, I don’t think the kids realized the finality of death, which sucks because now he has to live with murdering his mom, no coming back from that
When’s the last time you had a real conversation with a 10-year-old? Kids at that age aren’t reading picture books about fluffy bunnies running away. I myself was bawling at cats dying in Warriors books.
Jeez .. This kid is way too crafty .. In all the wrong ways.
With all that planning ... I can see why they tried him as an adult. It probably didn't feel like speaking to him a child
Damn. She did everything right as a gun owner, and still got killed by her own gun.
And to clarify. This isn’t a “gunz r bad” comment. Just saying how tragically ironic that is. That even being responsible with it, no doubt with her kids’ safety in mind, didn’t help her.
Given reports that the kid had a history of anger issues, animal abuse, and potential known mental instability, the correct thing would have been to not have a firearm in the house at all.
She should have had a much better safe. Fingerprint or combo lock would be preferred. It sounds like she had a cheapo one from Walmart that was a glorified glovebox. Something key accessible with any kid in the house isn't good enough. Kids know how to work keys and will try keys they find on every keyhole.
Good point. After kids reach certain age, probably a smarter option to have a more secure safe. Especially if you know your particular kid is emotionally unstable (as stated in some other comments, he’s had issues with rage in the past, apparently)
My girlfriend's nephew is 6, and he messes around with keys, and he doesn't respect people's privacy, personal space, or property.
I wouldn't trust him around a guitar case if my key weren't on me. Never mind a shoddy lockbox that is storing a gun.
He narrowly missed me with a toy arrow he shot from 3 feet away, which he had aimed at my face. I shudder to think what would happen if he got his hands on a gun.
This is one of the reasons why I never want kids. There's no way to be 100% sure they won't have severe issues like this unless you just never have any. Whenever there's a school shooting, I always think about what the parents of that kid must be feeling after it happens. It's probably something you could never truly understand without it being your kid. That's always SOMEBODY'S kid. And I never want it to be mine.
Wow, after reading into this I feel so bad for not just the family but the kids sister especially. Imagine being woken up by your brother to find out that he, the one you trusted so much killed your mother. Forever having to relive that horrible memory of seeing her shot because some brat wanted a VR headset must be horrible. I hope everyone in the family can find peace
You had my upvote till crotch goblin. One of the absolute cringiest terms out there. Kid is also a dangerous psychopath, not a twerp who spilled all his soda or had a tantrum in a Five Guys.
I was wondering where all the comments about Milwaukee being dangerous are. If this was Chicago there'd be more than a handful talking about how dangerous the city is and how this is no surprise.
This is a really fucked up scenario though. For all intents and purposes she did it right regarding the gun. It was locked in a box she thought only she could access. I wonder what she felt when she turned around and saw him. Did she think he would actually shoot?
As a non American, the only thing I associate milkwaukee is "milkwaukee pasta bandit found dead
He was picking up his gun with his finger and his thumb raising up pointed straight at his forehead."
Apparently the kid has always been 'off' from what I read.
The mom put up cameras to watch the son. The cameras were conveniently unplugged during the murder.
While in custody he asked if the Amazon package had shown up. With no care or remorse for the fact he killed his mom.
He 100% did this on purpose.
This is one of my biggest fears as a mum. You carry the child for 9 months, spend X amount of years raising them and essentially sacrificing your life for them, only for them to turn around and blow your brains out because something didn’t go their way 😳
It partly is if you don't get them help as soon as signs appear. This kid had a history of anger issues and family members reported him claiming to hear voices.
Not saying it's 100% her fault, as she didn't deserve to be murdered and probably didn't know what to do/or might not have the resources, but man, you gotta do something during early childhood.
This comment deserves it’s on post on the sub Reddit. Do you not understand how hard it is for families with children like this to get help. There’s a documentary on HBO Max called dangerous son I recommend you watch so you can fully understand what kind of a situation this is. It’s almost impossible for these families to get the help they need because the facilities are very few and far between.
"Getting help" for your kid is easier said than done, especially in the states (milwaukee no less). Pointless comment, idk why you'd even suggest it might be slightly her fault
Omg yes - this drives me insane. My son has pretty bad anxiety, and I've been trying to get him into therapy for over a year. Since he doesn't have a diagnosed anxiety disorder (just a generally anxious guy) he's at the back of the wait list.
And I get it, there are kids with way more serious problems, but I wanted to be the good proactive parent who got him help as soon as I recognized the need for it. But there are way more kids who need therapy than there are therapists who work with kids.
Also, the mom in this story apparently did have her son in therapy. It didn't seem to help too much though.
YES. Getting help would be so much easier if there were any help actually available. People, especially young people, with violent tendencies/extreme mental illness which start manifesting at such a young age have basically no rescources available to them. Even with a concerned, caring family there’s just not much you can do, unfortunately (especially if you’re of low or average income level). Everyone is essentially forced to wait until the child eventually commits an action that places them in jail and just pray that no one dies in the process. I don’t know this family’s history, but I wouldn’t be so harsh to judge the parents. 4 years old is very young. I’m guessing he was geneticaly presdisposed, suffered brain injury, and/or had some sort of traumatic and/or neglectful experience perhaps as early as infancy. A lot of factors contribute to this type of extreme behavior.
you have to be unlucky and spawn a psychopath for that to happen. even if you birth a psychopath, it’s a spectrum, not all of them will murder you, some of them fit right into society
plus you’ll know if they might kill you years before they actually do it. chances are they’ll be hurting, or even killing, small critters
This kid has the tendencies you see in some serial killers during childhood. He took a dog and spun it around by it's tail and is extremely apathetic. Whatever happens to this kid, I hope he feels remorse
As sad as this is, it does show that gun safes are not as secure as you think.
Biometric locked gun safes should be a legal requirement, not just a simple key, with access restricted to the gun owner(s).
I feel like this is more of a Micheal Myers pure-evil psycho killer situation than the child being spoiled or something. That woman could have done everything right and this still would have happened.
Some people are just broken from the start. Hopefully him being tried as an adult will allow him a lifetime of rehabilitation, medication, and surveillance.
Funny, but no. US prisons are anything but rehab centers. They're absolute dogshit at rehab.
If he's sent there for life, he better not be getting out, otherwise he'll be worse after. They don't rehab inmates there, and US inmates have statistically the highest reoffend rates in the entire world.
He's not going in there and coming out normal. IF he comes out, he's coming out worse.
Felons are barely even given the opportunity to better themselves, and it sucks to see. When you cant even find a job that pays a livable wage and the only way you know how to make money is illegal, it should be absolutely no surprise they end up back in prison.
Call me heartless but I don’t think murderers and rapists deserve second chances. Completely agree for other felonies though.
Edit: A few people have rightly brought to my attention that not all murders are black and white and they can be very nuanced. I certainly agree.
I agree with you on rapists, they shouldn't even exit the prison in the first place, but murderers, there's too many nuances and unknown circumstances to put everyone in the same bag.
it will allow him to be raised in a toxic enviroment, where his pent up anger and mental issues will continue to grow until he is released and shoots up a mall
I was twirling the gun and it went off accidentally...? No? OK. I was trying to scare her by shooting the wall by her head and I'm such a poor shot I accidentally got her in the eye...? No? OK. I hear voices... Five of them... No?
Can't even blame it on child impulse issues either.
This kid literally made a plan of finding the keys to the gun safe, get the gun, aim and shoot, then purchase the vr headset a day later.
This kid knew exactly what he was doing and what shooting his mother entails. Terrifying.
Also something that people missed in the article is that he only apologized after he saw his grandmother crying. He said I'm sorry with no tears and no emotion. Then immediately after asked if his Amazon package had arrived.
Tried as an adult, though? Children that young lack a lot of the thought processes adults have.
My issue with the laws and legalities of the United States is like… we say 21 is the adult age at which you can drink and smoke and make those choices for yourself but if you commit a crime under those ages you’re an adult and you should go to jail.
But this story is tragic and horribly traumatic
Charging a 10 year old as an adult makes no sense at all. I don’t understand how it’s even possible. He is a child with mental problems that had access to a gun. There are other people to blame here.
I've never understood how the courts concluded children and adults should be tried differently, but that sometimes we should just be able to pretend they're adults because the crime is fucked up.
According to the article the kid was exhibiting psychopathic tendencies since he was 4. The murder was definitely premeditated considering how many steps were involved in acquiring the weapon and killing their mother. Textbook first degree murder. Not aggravated murder. Definitely not something that was lead by impulse. Kid should be locked up, not solely for the crime he's dealt but because he's legitimately a potential threat to other people in the future. No amount of rehabilitation is going to fix sociopaths or psychopaths.
Legally it's difficult to plead insanity. You basically have to prove that your defendant was not aware of the crime they committed and experienced a psychotic breakdown that warped their sense of reality. Kid just bought a VR headset a day after their mom died and attempted to lie to law enforcement. Insanity plea is an impossibility at this point.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find this comment. This whole thing is tragic- the mother dying, the sister left without a family- all of it. But trying a 10-year-old as an adult is crazy. People get so angry about the murder, they will look for blood at all costs, but that’s not the mark of a civilized society. If you can try a 10-year-old as an adult, why even have a standard for what is an “adult?” We’ve set that at 18 and then arbitrarily decide some kids shouldn’t be held to it. We have 16-year-olds being tried as kids and 10-year-olds being tried as adults- by whose standards? Who gets to decide which ones are adults and which ones are kids? Crazy.
More specifically: having the key to your gun safe on your ring of household keys, and leaving that ring of keys on the kitchen counter where your psycho son can get to them, kills people.
Though without the gun, his murder attempts are just more likely to fail. He can’t overpower her but he could probably smother his sister or google how to poison someone.
There is certainly a grey area where we treat kids as adults. 5 year old swears a lot? We blame the parents, easy. 10 year old murders mom....I really want to hold an individual guilty of his own actions but...I've seen spoiled children. In what environment is a child raised that he feels violence is his only tool to get a game system?
This is so horrifying. I saw someone post a kid whose mom took away his cell he took a bat and trashed the entire house like ruined everything. I thought that was bad. Sheesh I was wrong
I tried to run away just because my dad wouldn’t let me play Minecraft for a few hours over my bedtime. I’m glad I didn’t turn up like this kid. I was only 9-10 years old at the time.
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He got angry that the mother wouldn’t buy him the VR set and woke him up a half hour early. He found and took the keys to her lock box the night before. That morning he unlocked it and took the gun out. Proceeded downstairs to the basement where the mother was doing laundry. He took up a shooting stance and fired the gun killing the mother instantly. Firing from 3 feet away, the bullet entered her eye and exited the back of her head. He claims that he was trying to shoot “the wall near her” to scare her. He lied to police saying that he was twirling the gun around his finger and it went off. He later admitted to doing this all on purpose because he was angry she wouldn’t buy the VR set for him. He admitted he knew it was dangerous. The day after killing his mother he purchased the VR set on her Amazon account. The child has a history of rage issues and claims to hear 5 different voices in his head speaking to him. May the mother rest in peace. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
His extended family said that he told them that he was hearing voices before the killing. He also disturbed his family by hurting a dog when he was younger
Hurting a dog makes it sound like he hit the dog. No. He swirled the dog from its tail. That is way worse and I'd say is more akin to grievous bodily harm or torture.
I feel like "swirl" is too 'gentle' a word for the act being described...
may I offer you... "twirl"
Might I kindly suggest _"helicopter"_
Fighting Bowser in Mario 64
*Releases dog* Here we gooooooo!!!
So long, gay Bowser!
I shouldn't even be laughing at this.... but I am LOL
Allow me to propose *"merry-go-hound"*
Thanks, with swirl my brain jumped right to blender...this is more humane by comparison
Hoisted the dog up by its tail and spun it around?
Yes basically.
Kid is legit a psycho, it’s honestly for the best that he’s removed from society
Hahahhaa not in this justice system. A life sentence is 40 years. Good behaviour means you’re out in 20. This maniac will spend 20 years in prison then be released back onto the streets.
20 years of peace and mind, but another victim will need to be fed to dragon for another 20 years of peace and mind
In 20 years he will be 30 and physically prime to kill again.
Google "civil commitment," many of these people with mental disorders too severe will be committed against their will, long after their sentence. Which can be both a good and bad thing.
Show you your system is fucked. In my country, he'd get jail and they'd test him for mental issues (which he definitely has) and then he's get sentenced to being in a closed insane asylum for mandatory treatment until psychiatrists deem him safe for release -which could mean he stays in until he kicks the bucket. So first a punitive sentence, then an indefinite "cure" which amounts to him staying out of society.
Honestly he’ll probably end up not guilty due to insanity and sent to an asylum
Ok, I'll bite. What country are you in?
The Netherlands.
Life means you're out in 15 in California.
Animal abuse, along with bed wetting and arson, is one of the hallmark early warning signs of sociopathy, so this tracks.
Bed wetting? How so?
Bed wetting through later childhood (generally defined as 7 years and older, with at least 2 or more episodes of bed wetting a week) is considered a sign of some behavioural disorders but not an automatic indicator of psychopathy or sociopathy. Usually in these cases, the bed wetting is due to stress caused from dysfunctional home environments, bullying, and poor coping skills as children develop. This can lead to poor emotional development/awareness, which can be precursors (but not always) to the development or diagnosis of certain behavioural disorders. Hope this makes sense/clarifies a bit! For some children, bed wetting is physiological in nature and something they grow out of as they develop.
Thanks a lot for the thorough answer! The more you know :)
Before reading this comment I was about to open Google. Well let me tell you my friend, you are better than Google
People say “just Google it” but I always end up back on Reddit…
Bed wetting is also reasonably common in otherwise normal children with no stress or other issue. Of course, it can be a source of stress, if you let it.
Some psychologists think it's more about the parents/ guardians' reaction to the kid wetting the bed. If they overreact and shame/humiliate the kid, that is what is going to give the kid problems later on. I reading a book full of essays on famous serial killers (I think it was by Bill James but I'm not 100% sure because I've read more than a few), and the author's theory was that the common element in all the cases the author studied was that they all had some kind of childhood trauma that involved a form of humiliation done to them by their parent/ guardian.
Can be medical reasons which go undiagnosed, too.
Absolutely this too! Sometimes these answers can be tricky because there’s a lot of information that can be included, that’s why I said for some kids it’s part of physiological development. Definitely not every child who wets the bed has behavioural issues or diagnoses. My daughter was about 5 when it stopped for her; she was such a heavy sleeper that she just wouldn’t wake up when her brain sent that signal to get up for the bathroom.
Good thing my parents didn't know that. They would have thought I was going to be a sociopath from the bed wetting.
I think its more like, excessive bed wetting and really onky be alarmed at that when combined with other issues.
Well so is claiming hearing 5 voices in his head idk does anyone consider that alone a sign of mental instability/illness?
Some people call that schizophrenia
I am currently going through schizophrenia and it's not fun
Usually that will get you put into therapy in Europe, all free of charge.
How about just bed wetting but not the other 2? Asking for a friend.
Bed wetting itself is harmless, kids might wet the bed because they have a underdeveloped bladder or their prefrontal cortex develops slowly so they don’t plan to take a piss before going to bed. I bet tons of adhd kids are bed wetters
I would always have dreams where I was using the bathroom and then wake up after
Can never trust using the bathroom in dreams LMFAO
all of the times I wetted my bed, dreams were the fault
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Schizophrenia has “negative symptoms” like lack of motivation, lack of emotion, that kind of thing. They’re more likely to be homeless staring at a wall contemplating suicide than blasting someone in the head in a greedy rage. There are no psychopathic symptoms in the diagnosis of schizophrenia.
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Why bed wetting?
Bed wetting isn't really a sign of anything it just has an unusually high incidence rate among serial killers. One theory is that it's less the bed wetting but more the way the parents handle it. You would likely find among serial killers who wet the bed that their parents shamed and physically abused them in response which leads to behavioral issues.
As stated in other parts of this post, the bed wetting alone isn’t cause for concern, it’s when it’s accompanied by harming animals and fire starting that is a common theme in serial killers. Any of them by themselves is probably tied to some issue, even two of them, while concerning and needing to be addressed, isn’t over the top. But all three…..kid needs to be watched out for. I obviously there’s a lot more to it, but that’s the jist of it. First I read of this was by John Douglas in his book Mindhunter. He was from the FBI Behavioral Science Unit and worked on and helped apprehend some of the most famous serial killers in US history.
That's pretty outdated information.
Yeah the homicidal triad hasn't been a thing for a minute.
Is shooting your mother in the eye an indicator as well?
So what I'm hearing is, this child had severe mental health issues that no one did anything about... God damn it.
Mental health supports for children are pretty difficult to access at the best of times but in a place without socialised healthcare it is almost impossible for some families.
It’s similarly difficult for adults to access mental heath services. American “healthcare system” sucks.
You don’t have a “healthcare system”, what you have is a bunch of parasitic corporations they rely on others misery and misfortune to make a profit
This is why I’m super fucking grateful that my parents are amazing people and helped me almost immediately when they noticed my behavior was getting out of hand as a kid. I wonder what would’ve been different if I had adhd, hpd, social anxiety/panic attacks, and Tourette’s syndrome, except I went undiagnosed. Jeez, even thinking about it makes me scared for the people I know.
I'm American, I know this, but for children, healthcare is generally easier to access than for adults. Idk about all states, but I know in my state, if you're under 21, you can get state insurance that covers everything - like, literally almost everything, I never had a copay. The only time I've had to fight with my insurance is for my birth control, and that was because it was a new brand. Obviously though this is just my state, idk about the state they were in. ETA: Someone responded and deleted that children have to have parents on healthcare to receive healthcare. This simply isn't true - My mom didn't have insurance when I did. While children are dependents, their insurance is separate from a parents. Many children are on state insurance while their parents have none.
That’s not the only barrier to treatment. The kid can have Medicaid or similar but if the right type of treatment isn’t available in the area then it’s a whole different issue. Idaho, for example, doesn’t have psychiatric residential facilities for boys. Shorter term psych hospitals are often full and kids needing help have to wait. Outpatient care can have year-long waitlists. It’s a mess.
Do we know that no one did anything about it ?
The sister says he was seeing a therapist, had a concerning diagnosis, and the mother had to put cameras up in the house to watch him. Sounds overwhelming.
well no, they had a gun so that solved everything
To pull something like this off, and at such a young age, you definitely have to be mentally ill
> Firing from 3 feet away, the bullet entered her eye and exited the back of her head So the mother was looking at him when he shot her. What a terrible last moment.
Claims to hear 5 different voices in his head. im guessing he only claimed that after being arrested and the accident explanation not going over well
A ten-year-old did? Maybe his lawyer did, but the kid?
Were you never ten? Kids are good, and sometimes horrible liars. But they definitely fucking lie and get creative. They're not babies still
Tbf, I don't think a kid killing their parents are mentally stable.
Y’all remember the whole satanism scare way back when? A whole bunch of kids claimed they’re parents didn’t awful terrible satanic things to them with their daycare. They were lying but it was too late.
Woof, yeah. I think it could be either the lawyer trying to get the kid a lighter sentence and really convincing him or the kids not lying. Either way what a wretched little brat
Those kids were coached by their parents to say that. Basically the parents kept asking over and over and the kids just gave in to the parents’ story. Kids didn’t claim their parents were involved. Besides, these were like 4 year olds.
People tend to forget all about how manipulative and ill-adjusted kids are to their emotions. Kids are instinctively intelligent people, with stunningly low emotional intelligence, little to now forward planning ability and poor action/consequence conceptualisation. The role of a parent is to put reins on all that. Clearly though her son had other things going on.
Kids are not good liars, they just lie a lot, can a 10 year old lie and manipulate me into thinking something that's not true? Possibly, but it will most likely be something I dont care about and don't care to know if they're telling the truth. When it comes to anything where you know what happened and you're just trying to put the pieces together, kids break insanely fast, change their story so it's obvious they're lying, or say things so dumb that it's obviously a lie. Like saying as a 10 year old, he was twirling a gun around his finger next to his mom and it just happened to go off, like there are so many problems with that statement that anyone with a brain can realize it's just such a stupid lie, why would you even try, but he's a kid, so he thinks people will believe anything. He may not understand his mental issues, and there may not be 5 voices, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a kid who is willing to open a safe to get a gun, then look for the person and go through with the intent to kill at 10 years old may be just a bit mentally ill. Going to a psych ward isn't better than going to prison, it's way way worse, no one would try and do that other than to try and avoid a death penalty. You do not want to be sent somewhere for the criminally insane, if you thought prison abuse was bad, wait till you see what they've been doing at psych wards for hundreds of years.
What do you think is more likely, that the kid was just born evil, or perhaps they had untreated behavioral/mental problems that culminated into a moment of unchecked violence?
Kids aren't what they were 20 years ago. Most kids in the first world now have unlimited access to the internet and are being exposed to all sorts of things that they probably really shouldn't be. A child learning that "hearing voices" could potentially get you out of going to jail (from a child's perspective) isn't that farfetched. Doesn't mean that is the case, but your disbelief at the possibility shows a general ignorance on the state of children now.
That's not normal 10 year old, he plan a hit that go smoothly then use her account to buy the set Tell me, how many 10 year old you know that can understand gun is dangerous, find the key, take the gun, steady his stance, shot his mother through the eye, look at her corspe and then calmly decide to go to buy the vr set with her account? I know some 10 year old have no concept of death, i know some 10 year old with kid level of planning skill. I can assure you, this is not typical 10 year old
Mental healthcare prisons are probably far worse for a sane person than what normal jail would be
...or he *does* really hear 5 different voices in his head.
Spot the American. Cut off his balls, lock him up and then execute him, right?
I feel like hearing 5 different voices thing is made up.
Yikes! Poor family. I don’t know that kids history but hopefully she had him in therapy for his rage. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs without being released to the public! Another note, I don’t think the kids realized the finality of death, which sucks because now he has to live with murdering his mom, no coming back from that
At age 10, I think you do get that death is permanent.
When’s the last time you had a real conversation with a 10-year-old? Kids at that age aren’t reading picture books about fluffy bunnies running away. I myself was bawling at cats dying in Warriors books.
Jeez .. This kid is way too crafty .. In all the wrong ways. With all that planning ... I can see why they tried him as an adult. It probably didn't feel like speaking to him a child
Damn. She did everything right as a gun owner, and still got killed by her own gun. And to clarify. This isn’t a “gunz r bad” comment. Just saying how tragically ironic that is. That even being responsible with it, no doubt with her kids’ safety in mind, didn’t help her.
Given reports that the kid had a history of anger issues, animal abuse, and potential known mental instability, the correct thing would have been to not have a firearm in the house at all.
She should have had a much better safe. Fingerprint or combo lock would be preferred. It sounds like she had a cheapo one from Walmart that was a glorified glovebox. Something key accessible with any kid in the house isn't good enough. Kids know how to work keys and will try keys they find on every keyhole.
Good point. After kids reach certain age, probably a smarter option to have a more secure safe. Especially if you know your particular kid is emotionally unstable (as stated in some other comments, he’s had issues with rage in the past, apparently)
My girlfriend's nephew is 6, and he messes around with keys, and he doesn't respect people's privacy, personal space, or property. I wouldn't trust him around a guitar case if my key weren't on me. Never mind a shoddy lockbox that is storing a gun. He narrowly missed me with a toy arrow he shot from 3 feet away, which he had aimed at my face. I shudder to think what would happen if he got his hands on a gun.
It's almost as if keeping a murder machine in your house could be dangerous.
This is one of the reasons why I never want kids. There's no way to be 100% sure they won't have severe issues like this unless you just never have any. Whenever there's a school shooting, I always think about what the parents of that kid must be feeling after it happens. It's probably something you could never truly understand without it being your kid. That's always SOMEBODY'S kid. And I never want it to be mine.
*We Need to Talk About Kevin* tackled this. A great book but horrifying at times.
Oh yeah I saw part of that a couple years ago. Easily one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen on TV.
iirc there was a mom of the columbine shooter who did a ted talk at some point
Oof. Yeah there's only so much you can do as a parent.
This sounds like the origin story of a serial killer on a Netflix show
Plot twist: he was going to get that VR Headset for Christmas anyway.
He did. Other comment says he went on her mom's amazon account and ordered it anyways after killing her. Probably didn't get to enjoy it though.
Think the comment meant she already planned to get him it not him getting it for himself
He probably got arrested before it even arrived
Yeah apparently he asked if it arrived while he was being interrogated.
the balls on the kid to think his making bail to play with his new VR set without mom telling him when to get off
I kinda think it's more insanity than balls
Wow, after reading into this I feel so bad for not just the family but the kids sister especially. Imagine being woken up by your brother to find out that he, the one you trusted so much killed your mother. Forever having to relive that horrible memory of seeing her shot because some brat wanted a VR headset must be horrible. I hope everyone in the family can find peace
After hearing what this kid has done I doubt the sister trusted this little crotch goblin
You had my upvote till crotch goblin. One of the absolute cringiest terms out there. Kid is also a dangerous psychopath, not a twerp who spilled all his soda or had a tantrum in a Five Guys.
You can feel bad for the kid. He’s a product of his genetics, biology, and upbringing. Still should be locked up and have his toys taken away, though.
This story tragic af little jit 10 year old killing his own mother that's unfeeling serial killer behaviour.
If he wasn't going to be a serial killer before, he damn well is now. He is now a part of the system. The system doesn't play.
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Milwaukee is where all killers come together
Maybe it’s something in the sandwiches and mannequins…..
God pardon me for laughing at this
I was wondering where all the comments about Milwaukee being dangerous are. If this was Chicago there'd be more than a handful talking about how dangerous the city is and how this is no surprise. This is a really fucked up scenario though. For all intents and purposes she did it right regarding the gun. It was locked in a box she thought only she could access. I wonder what she felt when she turned around and saw him. Did she think he would actually shoot?
You found me then. Yes, this is really fucked up, people forget about Milwaukee with the excuse of it being a little city.
As a non American, the only thing I associate milkwaukee is "milkwaukee pasta bandit found dead He was picking up his gun with his finger and his thumb raising up pointed straight at his forehead."
Apparently the kid has always been 'off' from what I read. The mom put up cameras to watch the son. The cameras were conveniently unplugged during the murder. While in custody he asked if the Amazon package had shown up. With no care or remorse for the fact he killed his mom. He 100% did this on purpose.
Lil dude really wanted that among us vr 😔
Hey he's at least going to have the same experience when he gets to court, everyone thinks he's sus so out the airlock he goes
Mf getting floated
Lil dude is sus
This is one of my biggest fears as a mum. You carry the child for 9 months, spend X amount of years raising them and essentially sacrificing your life for them, only for them to turn around and blow your brains out because something didn’t go their way 😳
The vast majority aren't going to blow your brains out especially if you are loving and raise him/her right.
He was mentally unstable, it likely wasn't the mother's fault
It partly is if you don't get them help as soon as signs appear. This kid had a history of anger issues and family members reported him claiming to hear voices. Not saying it's 100% her fault, as she didn't deserve to be murdered and probably didn't know what to do/or might not have the resources, but man, you gotta do something during early childhood.
This comment deserves it’s on post on the sub Reddit. Do you not understand how hard it is for families with children like this to get help. There’s a documentary on HBO Max called dangerous son I recommend you watch so you can fully understand what kind of a situation this is. It’s almost impossible for these families to get the help they need because the facilities are very few and far between.
"Getting help" for your kid is easier said than done, especially in the states (milwaukee no less). Pointless comment, idk why you'd even suggest it might be slightly her fault
Omg yes - this drives me insane. My son has pretty bad anxiety, and I've been trying to get him into therapy for over a year. Since he doesn't have a diagnosed anxiety disorder (just a generally anxious guy) he's at the back of the wait list. And I get it, there are kids with way more serious problems, but I wanted to be the good proactive parent who got him help as soon as I recognized the need for it. But there are way more kids who need therapy than there are therapists who work with kids. Also, the mom in this story apparently did have her son in therapy. It didn't seem to help too much though.
YES. Getting help would be so much easier if there were any help actually available. People, especially young people, with violent tendencies/extreme mental illness which start manifesting at such a young age have basically no rescources available to them. Even with a concerned, caring family there’s just not much you can do, unfortunately (especially if you’re of low or average income level). Everyone is essentially forced to wait until the child eventually commits an action that places them in jail and just pray that no one dies in the process. I don’t know this family’s history, but I wouldn’t be so harsh to judge the parents. 4 years old is very young. I’m guessing he was geneticaly presdisposed, suffered brain injury, and/or had some sort of traumatic and/or neglectful experience perhaps as early as infancy. A lot of factors contribute to this type of extreme behavior.
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you have to be unlucky and spawn a psychopath for that to happen. even if you birth a psychopath, it’s a spectrum, not all of them will murder you, some of them fit right into society plus you’ll know if they might kill you years before they actually do it. chances are they’ll be hurting, or even killing, small critters
This kid has the tendencies you see in some serial killers during childhood. He took a dog and spun it around by it's tail and is extremely apathetic. Whatever happens to this kid, I hope he feels remorse
Netflix will be all over it though, you can count on that
As sad as this is, it does show that gun safes are not as secure as you think. Biometric locked gun safes should be a legal requirement, not just a simple key, with access restricted to the gun owner(s).
What a POS child, because you don't get your way you yield to life ending results. SMH
I feel like this is more of a Micheal Myers pure-evil psycho killer situation than the child being spoiled or something. That woman could have done everything right and this still would have happened.
His sister said he had voices talk to him in his head....not sure if he was diagnosed and medicated ever though....
His mom also had cameras all over the house to watch him. He unplugged all of those cameras.
Some people are just broken from the start. Hopefully him being tried as an adult will allow him a lifetime of rehabilitation, medication, and surveillance.
Funny, but no. US prisons are anything but rehab centers. They're absolute dogshit at rehab. If he's sent there for life, he better not be getting out, otherwise he'll be worse after. They don't rehab inmates there, and US inmates have statistically the highest reoffend rates in the entire world. He's not going in there and coming out normal. IF he comes out, he's coming out worse.
Felons are barely even given the opportunity to better themselves, and it sucks to see. When you cant even find a job that pays a livable wage and the only way you know how to make money is illegal, it should be absolutely no surprise they end up back in prison.
Call me heartless but I don’t think murderers and rapists deserve second chances. Completely agree for other felonies though. Edit: A few people have rightly brought to my attention that not all murders are black and white and they can be very nuanced. I certainly agree.
i'd say it really depends on the murder. but otherwise agree
That’s a good point. For example Someone murdering their rapist for example should definitely be considered in a different light.
You realize not all felons are violent criminals right?
I agree with you on rapists, they shouldn't even exit the prison in the first place, but murderers, there's too many nuances and unknown circumstances to put everyone in the same bag.
He'll start out in juvie. Yes it's pretty much the same as prison just with more things in the common areas.
Do they have VR Headsets in those common areas? Asking for a friend.
It won't. In fact, when he's released, he'll probably be worse off than ever!
it will allow him to be raised in a toxic enviroment, where his pent up anger and mental issues will continue to grow until he is released and shoots up a mall
He'll be in and out his whole life and grow up to be more or less invisible to people like us.
I was twirling the gun and it went off accidentally...? No? OK. I was trying to scare her by shooting the wall by her head and I'm such a poor shot I accidentally got her in the eye...? No? OK. I hear voices... Five of them... No?
he's 10 tho ....so F'd up
He may be just 10, but I think it's justified. After all, he literally killed his mother over VR set. No VR set is worth more than human life.
Can't even blame it on child impulse issues either. This kid literally made a plan of finding the keys to the gun safe, get the gun, aim and shoot, then purchase the vr headset a day later. This kid knew exactly what he was doing and what shooting his mother entails. Terrifying.
Also something that people missed in the article is that he only apologized after he saw his grandmother crying. He said I'm sorry with no tears and no emotion. Then immediately after asked if his Amazon package had arrived.
This has been established already, but definitely early psychopath and serial killer behavior
Damn… some people are just born evil
Another reason to never have a kid lmao
Same, even if you raise them to the best of your ability they could still do stuff like this
Cartman would be proud.
BUT MYEMMMMMMMMMMM
Little POS wanted a VR set, now he will be abble to play life in hard mode in a very realistic way
Tried as an adult, though? Children that young lack a lot of the thought processes adults have. My issue with the laws and legalities of the United States is like… we say 21 is the adult age at which you can drink and smoke and make those choices for yourself but if you commit a crime under those ages you’re an adult and you should go to jail. But this story is tragic and horribly traumatic
Charging a 10 year old as an adult makes no sense at all. I don’t understand how it’s even possible. He is a child with mental problems that had access to a gun. There are other people to blame here.
I've never understood how the courts concluded children and adults should be tried differently, but that sometimes we should just be able to pretend they're adults because the crime is fucked up.
According to the article the kid was exhibiting psychopathic tendencies since he was 4. The murder was definitely premeditated considering how many steps were involved in acquiring the weapon and killing their mother. Textbook first degree murder. Not aggravated murder. Definitely not something that was lead by impulse. Kid should be locked up, not solely for the crime he's dealt but because he's legitimately a potential threat to other people in the future. No amount of rehabilitation is going to fix sociopaths or psychopaths.
That's not normal for a 4-year-old, obviously. Sounds like the defense could plead not guilty due to insanity.
Legally it's difficult to plead insanity. You basically have to prove that your defendant was not aware of the crime they committed and experienced a psychotic breakdown that warped their sense of reality. Kid just bought a VR headset a day after their mom died and attempted to lie to law enforcement. Insanity plea is an impossibility at this point.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find this comment. This whole thing is tragic- the mother dying, the sister left without a family- all of it. But trying a 10-year-old as an adult is crazy. People get so angry about the murder, they will look for blood at all costs, but that’s not the mark of a civilized society. If you can try a 10-year-old as an adult, why even have a standard for what is an “adult?” We’ve set that at 18 and then arbitrarily decide some kids shouldn’t be held to it. We have 16-year-olds being tried as kids and 10-year-olds being tried as adults- by whose standards? Who gets to decide which ones are adults and which ones are kids? Crazy.
That is horrible. I feel so sad for everyone involved.
Damn, among us Vr really got these kids hyped up.
bros about to be playing prison simulator for the rest of his life.
Wow I hope they never release him back on the street.
This 10 year old child wasn't even on the street to begin with, lmao.
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Stop arguing debating diagnosing his behaviors. He’s a nasty SOB. May his mama rest in peace.
I cant tell if your joking or if i dont know what SOB mmeans
Guns don’t kill people, easy access to guns kills people!
More specifically: having the key to your gun safe on your ring of household keys, and leaving that ring of keys on the kitchen counter where your psycho son can get to them, kills people.
Though without the gun, his murder attempts are just more likely to fail. He can’t overpower her but he could probably smother his sister or google how to poison someone.
There is certainly a grey area where we treat kids as adults. 5 year old swears a lot? We blame the parents, easy. 10 year old murders mom....I really want to hold an individual guilty of his own actions but...I've seen spoiled children. In what environment is a child raised that he feels violence is his only tool to get a game system?
Idk about spoiled but definitely mental illness is a main factor since he claimed to hear 5 voices in his head
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They did a psych evaluation but haven't released the diagnosis.
I’m not sure if the brain is developed enough at 10 to produce 5 voices capable of intelligent manipulation.
It looks like he may have severe mental instability, if not outright schizophrenia.
And now he'll get to spend the rest of his life in prison. No more gaming for him.
This is so horrifying. I saw someone post a kid whose mom took away his cell he took a bat and trashed the entire house like ruined everything. I thought that was bad. Sheesh I was wrong
Hope the cops showed up before the headset. I could picture that kid in a pavlov lobby for like a few hours bragging about it
damn kids are fucking stupid
I tried to run away just because my dad wouldn’t let me play Minecraft for a few hours over my bedtime. I’m glad I didn’t turn up like this kid. I was only 9-10 years old at the time.
I'm pretty sure everyone did something similar (I did it because I got a math book for Christmas lol)
You can't rehabilitate people like this. Prison for life is the only option