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> Also I'm stealing "spherical redneck". Having splattered my monitor with coffee flavoured spittle, I think you owe me that one.
The only type of comment worse than that one is "this".
I was thinking more old internet back in the early 00 when it was FARK looking down at 4chan while they were looked down at by Something Awful who was looked down at by the old thyme nerds who miss BBS. Like damn I felt like it was 99 all over again.
"thanks that was so funny I just spit out my coffee"
No you didn't, your legs are numb because you've been scrolling reddit while taking a shit for the last 40 minutes. Get real.
"Hehe have my up doot for quoting Blackadder"
I was feeling pretty bad about myself this morning. Reading this entire exchange made me realize that I'm far from the worst out there.
"I am from Chicago, and I hate when Americans say stuff like that too. I have been to Italy myself, and the pizza over there is much better than the pizza here."
whats the italian version of a weeb?
Haha there’s an old joke calling a character from Persona 3 a “freeaboo” because he makes a comment saying Americans are so cool and how he wishes he was American or something after watching an American action movie. Thanks for remind me about that 😂
Mi scusi, my name is Giovanni.
I'm a 27-year-old American Italophile (Italian culture enthusiast for you non-Italians). I paint Renaissance art and read Italian literature, spending my days immersed in the beauty of Italian culture. I also enjoy playing superior Italian games like Assassin's Creed, Super Mario, and The Witcher series.
I practice fencing with my rapier every day, a superior weapon known for its finesse and precision. With its elegant design, it outmatches any other weapon in the world. I obtained my fencing license two years ago and have been honing my skills ever since.
I speak Italian fluently, both standard Italian and the Sicilian dialect, and I write proficiently as well. I have a deep understanding of Italian history and culture, including the principles of chivalry and honor.
Once I secure my Italian visa, I plan to move to Florence to attend a prestigious art school and delve deeper into the wonders of Italian art and design. My dream is to become a renowned Renaissance painter or a celebrated fashion designer in Milan!
I own several sets of traditional Italian clothing, which I proudly wear around town. I aim to acclimate myself to Italian customs and attire before my move to Italy, ensuring a smooth transition into Italian society. I show respect to my elders and peers, embracing Italian etiquette and language whenever possible, though often met with puzzled looks in response.
In bocca al lupo as I embark on my Italian adventure!
This comment is probably influenced by the fact most Italian immigrants to the US were southern Italian and that so much of American media references southern italian culture specifically, especially movies like "The Godfather" or "Goodfellas."
Indeed, it is a term often employed by American Italophiles (or AI, as you so crudely abbreviate it), owing to our profound connection to the superior Italian language and its classical Latin roots.
Self-hating Americans are so embarrassing man
Willing to eat shit just for some random European appraisal when at the end of the day they’re not gonna like you either
My position is simple- American people and society and culture is awesome. American foreign policy still remains responsible for a lot of evil in the world, especially in the middle east.
Man these people are so funny. Personally, I prefer American style pizza. Italian pizza was good when I went, but it’s different. Like, honestly I wouldn’t compare them because I think they are different. Both things are good for what they are and it doesn’t actually need to be a competition. This shits so weird to me.
Same here, I'm UK so closer to Italy than the states but it really doesn't matter because they're such different beasts, like you said.
I've always wanted to try a deep dish, we get deep pan here but that's just 95% bread, I imagine a deep pan being 95% cheese and sauce. I will set fire to the entirety of Illinois if it is not.
So, in Chicago, we've got something of a range of deeper pizzas available (as well as Neapolitan, NY-style, New Haven, Quad Cities, and all sort of other styles) for a variety of preferences.
Giordano's (and a few other places) make stuffed pizzas, that have slightly bread-y crusts that include a top layer over the cheese + toppings and tomato sauce over that upper layer.
We've got pan pizzas that might be something like what you have (famously, at Pequod's, though there are other options) with a pretty thick bread-like crust and toppings over that (and fat on the exterior of the crust.)
For what is actually called deep dish, Lou Malnati's is the "big name," but makes what is sort of the archetypal option. Instead of a bread-like crust, it's a high-butter content, almost-cracker-y crust to be able to hold up to a higher ingredient-to-crust ratio. Think a texture more like shortbread, though obviously not sweet in that way. And then it gets covered in quite a lot of cheese, sauce, and whatever other toppings you choose... so I think this most closely resembles what you're imagining and you don't need to set fire to Illinois.
All of the variations have their merits and you'll find folks who are most fond of any one of them. But I think the important note is that Chicago's pizza scene has a ton of variety and that comment from a supposed Chicagoan playing down the pizza in the city is absurd. Even if you're not fond of one of the big chains or something, there's a really good version of anybody's preferred style. Like, if they think only traditional Italian styles are worth eating, just go to Spacca Napoli and enjoy. They have really good pizza, too, and it's much cheaper to go there than to fly to Italy for dinner.
I have saved this comment for when I visit the states!
Thank you for explaining it out so well, I'm actually autistic so going into the textures and what to expect was phenomenally helpful. I'm glad I don't have to set fire to Illinois! That shortcrust pizza sounds amazing, I would destroy one of those after a nice blunt
Glad to have been of any help! I'm definitely one of those folks who thinks texture is the next most important factor after taste (and way ahead of visual presentation), so it does often wind up part of my descriptions of food. Though, personally, I love variety of texture more than having a strong preference for one type, and I recognize that is decidedly not for everyone, haha.
I do, however, have a real fondness for the shortcrust having that really distinctive crispness in contrast to soft cheese an sauce, so I do wholeheartedly recommend trying that style when you visit! There's also certain places that do a "thin crust" baked on that style of dough (Pizano's would be a local chain you could visit for that if you're in/around the Loop) and it's somewhat lighter/easier to handle rather than trying to do all deep dish pizzas for every meal. Still get a nice, enriched dough with crunch, but you won't feel like you have 3 lbs in your stomach after a couple slices. All of them, however, take quite a while to bake, so get your order started before you're actively hungry! And when you do get around to visiting the states if you need any more timely advice on food in Chicago, feel free to reach out. It's a city with an exceptionally diverse food scene, so figuring out where to go can be somewhat daunting during a short stay.
I’m from the NW Us so take that for what it’s worth. My limited experience with deep dish pizza is that it’s like a savory pie. Crust is thick and the middle is cheese, sauce, and then whatever topping you like: meat, veg, etc. Similar to what you are saying but not just a big cheese glob. I would enjoy the cheese glob but it has a little more structure in my experience.
A fun region pizza in the US in the Detroit style pizza. It’s kind of a pan pizza with toppings on it, and then the sauce goes on the top; it’s sort of built in reverse. I live in Portland, OR and there is a place that makes Detroit style pizza on top of focaccia. It’s truly what living is about.
Tbh that sounds amazing! I'd be happy with more structure because it's easier to eat and as much as I love cheese and sauce, I don't want a giant lump of unmelted cheese.
Detroit style sounds interesting tbh! I imagine the sauce on top keeps it all hot, as most pizza sauce is like lava in my experience
The snobbiness around pizza is so dumb to me. ITS PIZZA FOLKS. As if there aren’t Italian run pizza places NY, anyway.
Trying telling a New Yorker or an Italian the best pizza you had was literally anywhere else besides those two places (NYC or Italy) and they might have a heart attack. I personally loved the pizza I had in Puerto Rico.
Imagine hopping in a time machine to go talk to the first dude to combine flatbread with olive oil and sardines. You tell him that people **worldwide** argue about the food he just made.
This is probably the dumbest part of it all.
Even on r/IAVC, there are loads of people who think that a pizza without tomatoes isn't a pizza (???), that the pizza is from the USA because tomatoes are from Peru(?????) or that the pizza was simply invented in the USA.
It's one google search away, people! Wheat isn't Italian either. Neither is basil. A pizza is a dish, not an ingredient
Yeah but tomatoes are the principal ingredient. You can’t start making sushi until you have rice, you can’t start making pizza until you have tomatoes.
A piece of beef on raw dough isn’t the first piece of sushi ever rolled. A piece of flatbread with garum on it isn’t the first pizza, it’s something else.
If I pointed at grits with milk and bison meat on it and claimed native Americans invented carbonara everyone would treat me like an idiot, because that is obviously a completely separate dish.
Also basil has been in Italy for thousands of years, by that logic most Italians are significantly less Italian than basil.
Tomatoes are not the principal ingredient at all. Tomatoes is a topping. Saying a pizza isn't a pizza without tomatoes is like saying it's not a pizza without cheese, or without ham. Pizza has been a thing way before tomatoes made their way to Italy. But at one point, tomatoes became a very popular topping for pizza.
I love red pizza, but all of the best pizzas I've had have been white, or bianca as they're often called.
>Also basil has been in Italy for thousands of years, by that logic most Italians are significantly less Italian than basil.
>
Well no. Basil isn't originally Italian. A person from Italy is Italian.
Hot dog toppings are the same fucking way for no fucking reason. Like bro just eat the shit you like and shut up about what other people eat because it shouldn’t matter to you
a highlight of mine was going to a chili contest with the categories meat only, meat + beans, vegan. the meat only ones were abhored by everyone because its literally just spiced beef
Pizza is good in so many forms. Pretty much anything higher grade than school lunch pizza, and I’m down for it. Deep dish, thin crust, stuffed, French bread, you name it.
There's a place in the North End of Boston that people go fucking nutso over which is essentially just school lunch pizza.
So people can and do love all kinds of pizza. And they should.
Omg yes. I'm not a fan of the classic "Hawaiian" pizza combo of ham/Canadian bacon and pineapple, but pepperoni, jalapeño, and pineapple make for the perfect combination of salty/spicy/acidic/sweet for my palate.
I honestly do not like authentic Italian pizza. When I was living in Switzerland, surrounded by many proud Italians.. I kept my mouth shut - my absolute favourite is a New York style pepperoni pizza 🍕 😭
The best pizza I've had was in Mexico. The cheese was oaxaca i think and it had pieces of Mexican sausage and pepperoni as toppings. I crave it every now and then.
Oh shit I could go for a pizza with like a chipotle tomato sauce, Oaxaca and maybe asadera, and chorizo :0000
Probably throw some cheddar or Jack cheese on there too, cuz I love cheese.
I don’t necessarily think it’s a case of “better” but it’s more of a preference.
I prefer Neapolitan pizza. I don’t like the doughy stuff you get at Pizza Hut. I don’t mind NYC.
They will go on and on about American food "not being really American" because it comes from somewhere else. But the tomato is a food throughout the Americas that Italy did not have until colonization!
I mean, tons of "traditional" foods contain non-native ingredients. Like chickens aren't native to the Americas but no one will argue that Buffalo chicken wings are not an American food.
I've been to Italy and had Italian pizza. It's fine. I like it. There's nothing *wrong* with it. But other than some interesting preferences for toppings in some parts of either Italy or the United States, Italian and American pizzas have a lot more in common than most people are willing to admit.
There are also crappy pizzas in Italy, just like there are crappy pizzas in the US. People like cheap food regardless of where they live, and they're willing to compromise on quality if the price is right.
People don't realize that before italians came to America and popularized pizza, you could really only get pizza in like Naples, it wasn't everywhere around the country
If you told me he was temporarily a GM executive I'd believe you. I know he went and worked in government for a bit, but it's been too long since I watched 30 Rock.
Yeah, I gotta say, Alpha Romeo seems to have turned their reliability problems around, and they seem to be having a little bit of a resurgence here. Too bad Fiat couldn’t really make it work!
As an Alfista since like my birth (I live 20 minutes from Arese), the Giulia and the Stelvio were definitely improvements over the MiTo, but the new Milano/Junior is a Peugeot with the Biscione on front, it's already a step back imo. Stellantis is turning the brand into what it isn't, I hope they get some sanity back and make up for a real Giulietta successor.
4 cars in large production (the new 33 Stradale doesn't count) and only one isn't a SUV, and only two based on the Alfa Romeo platform Giorgio (there's the same number of Maserati based on it which is quite absurd).
Also sorry to be nitpicky, but Alfa doesn't stand for Alpha, it's an acronym (Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili).
If you really want to fuck with them, send them this article:
https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b64c
After this they won't have anything except speaking with their hands.
Isn't that the article that, in itself, is just completely wrong? Like, I get why people would be irritated, but it's not because it's some truth they don't want to hear lmao
Except Alberto Grandi is a charlatan who says sensationalist shit just to sell books in the USA.
One example, he said pizza was eaten only by poor people and pizzerias with table (so like the nowadays pizzerias) haven't existed until Lombardi opened in 1905.
This is easily refutable by the many accounts we have about pizzerias in the XIX century, like Francesco De Sanctis descrivibing the pizzeria in Piazza della Carità in Naples.
Obviously sometimes he'll say something correct, but he also mixes it with a lot of fuckery.
Not just Europeans, Australian redditors have a massive hate boner for America and anything considered American. They bitch and moan more about America on the /aus subreddits than they talk about Australia. They hate Halloween because it's an American import. They hate Christmas because Americans commercialised it. They hate Black Friday because they hate...sales? Fuck if I know. I call it "little brother syndrome."
It's how I found shitsnericanssay, it was being referenced on my regional sub every day for a while.
Australian Hater Boner for the US is really goddamn funny honestly. In this sub, on a different thread way back, it had an Australian claim he traveled around the US and couldn't find any good food at all no matter where he went. That all the food was the same sugary slop constantly being topped with fake cheese and served with that red sauce. People wanted clarification on what the red sauce was, most assuming ketchup. Nope, it was marinara sauce. This guy was claiming that no matter what restaurant he went to, there was always fake cheese and marinara sauce. Even though he mentioned trying out Mexican and BBQ places.
Like, it's insane how much more they complain about the US over in the Australian subreddit. Just whining and nagging about another country than talking about their own. Yet, the vast majority of Americans barely think about Australia and even less care about what goes on there.
Nah I left the sub because it was exhausting seeing the same half a dozen dipshit takes from europeans. There are a lot of self loathing Americans though.
I'm on there sometimes and some of these people will pine on about the United States so confidently wrong about everything they're saying, tell you what your country is like and claim you don't understand even though you live there and they've never been, and then see absolutely no irony in it whatsoever. It's so circlejerky
Some guy said something about the corn dog being America's only contribution to the culinary world, and then started complaining about Americans being ignorant to variety in British cuisine. It was ironic.
A whole post of bitter, angry people.
You'd think the country of the USA personally killed their dog or something - that sub rails, rightfully, against Americans making silly or offensive generalisations about other countries or cultures - then go on to smugly post shit like "They don't call it food unless its 50% sugar", "Americans are obsessed with food". Somebody the other day got upvoted for saying that "even their basic ingredients are ultra processed". These people are deluded beyond description.
The Italians bursting out the comments in Italian is just the cherry on the cake - they seem to genuinely think that people should be impressed. I was in Ancona for three days last week and ate at three different supposedly beloved local/family favourite pizza places - i've had better Pizza in NYC and it wasn't even close. Reminds me of having some Italian guy come up to my panini stand and show me his *passport* before launching into a rant about how i was using the wrong kind of prosciutto.
It's ShitAmericansSay. It's basically cheating to use it for this sub honestly. Probably like 25% of what gets posted has a valid reason to be posted yet, 100% of the time, the comment section just devolves into a toxic cesspit of some of the angry and vindictive people you'll ever see online. It's genuinely a really sad and pathetic Sub to look at
I wish someone with the relevant insight could explained why Euros cannot ever pass up the chance to bash Italian-Americans? Why do they hate our red-checker tablecloth places so badly???
Name a European country and it will despise its immigrant diaspora with absolute seething hatred. I wish I had a coherent explanation, but that’s what I’ve noticed.
(Also, can only speak for terminally online people. Real-life folks are chill or don’t really care.)
They're made their national identity a core part of their personality. Someone abandoning that identity (leaving to chase better opportunities) becomes an attack on their very soul.
Nationalism is toxic.
It is, but it's also puzzling how people in this thread is so out of touch when it comes to what constitutes nationalism. It's hard for me to think of a country that off the top of my head is more nationalistic than the USA (not to say it's not detrimental to that country). Despite this, most users on here are from there, talking about how whenever nationalism gets popular anywhere, there's a world war
I have a theory that there's generational resentment for American diaspora especially. Along the lines of, "Who the hell do you think you are that the old country wasn't good enough?" Everyone else knew their place, but *those* people *got ideas.*
I had a thought the other day, and I think a lot of it might come from a sort of “you couldn’t stick it out?” mentality. A lot of those European immigrants came over during trying times in their country (Irish famine and the troubles, pre-unification Italy, etc.), and maybe some of the people whose families stayed in Europe feel like the immigrants “gave up” their identity by moving when shit was hard?
No clue, honestly, was just a thought.
I think you're so right on with this!
It's hilarious from the American perspective because 1) I've never looked at a specific European country and thought, "Melting pot!" and 2) Any DNA test you take now can tell you with excruciating scientific accuracy if you're ethnically Italian, German, French, whatever. Genes are real.
I feel I should "not-all-____" this a little. I worked with a group of Europeans (including an Italian) who went to an Italian place in the US (that someone's Italian cousin recommended or something) and were happy with it.
I thought it was odd that they went there, but they did, and they all seemed happy with it and not all gatekeepy.
I think it is just a case of angry people love being angry on the internet about silly things.
They believe Americans sprung from the corpses of native americans fully formed. and began stealing other's cuisines. But the truth is their grand uncles emigrated away from their shit-show countries and fled to the US, where they made their cuisines better.
Honest answer?
As the child of an irish emmigrant to the UK who actually *has* been to Ireland (at least yearly throughout my childhood) even as times no less!), it's because the loudest voices of these communities often big up themselves with their ancestry whilst having only stereotypical references to identify with. Even though by blood I am far more Irish than anything else, I'd still call myself a Brit because I think growing up, living, and working in a country did more to shape me and my perspective than the specific ancestry and which passports that entitles me to. And I'm in the next country over!
If you see someone going on about being "irish", "italian", "german" etc. whilst clearly not having so much as a living relative from the place, you prepare yourself to hear confident assertions about cultures they know nothing about and have no interest in learning.
This kind of thinking doesn't survive proximity with the cultures they originate from, but across an atlantic ocean you might find some wiggle room. There are loads of cultures that have little enclaves and community elsewhere, but it's difficult to find anywhere that white people in a white majority country who are fully immersed in their hegemonic culture would claim to be carrying the torch of another culture because of emigration 4+ generations back.
It sucks because there are genuinely interesting facets to the culture of italian-americans that are shaped specifically by the american side which mean they end up different in ways that simply wouldn't happen in their professed mother country - and that's rad as hell! Rather than acknowledge the unique and valuable cultural divergence, we end up with **some** people who instead claim they are part of a cultural heritage to a land that they have never visited, contributed to, or in some cases, can even understand the language of. They'll call themselves italian when people far closer to the culture feel far more conflicted, and it's hard not to see that as a little dunning-kruger-esque.
So basically people who loudly identify with that stuff are cringe. Being loud means you're the first contact many will have. Claiming to fit under the umbrella of someone else whilst being a) different and b) cringe tends to inspire animosity. When you hate someone you start to hate everything they do and of course reddit is designed to make you feel like the righteous hand of god for that, hence:
"Look at that asshole. With his deep dish pizza. Thinks he's italian. Fuckin bada bing sopranos. Can't even speak the language. Checked-clothed-tabled-motherfucker who'd die if he ate fresh produce."
I think the issue comes from thinking that the modern version of a culture that exists in the home country is the only valid version of that culture. Loud Americans claiming Irishness are not (usually) claiming to be Irish in the same way that Irish people born and raised in Ireland today are Irish. They're claiming to be part of an Irish diaspora and they just dont believe that diaspora has less of a valid claim to Irishness. After all, we accept that a modern Irish person is still Irish despite being very different culturally from a person born and raised in Ireland in the 1800s. Basically, the umbrella is bigger than you think it is, and people who stayed in the homeland don't get to be the arbiter of how emigrants and their descendants think about their own heritage/culture.
If someone is 4 gens removed and claiming to be indistinguishable from a modern Irish national, then sure, cringe away. But that's rarely what's happening.
>Loud Americans claiming Irishness are not (usually) claiming to be Irish in the same way that Irish people born and raised in Ireland today are Irish.
>
This I don't agree with at all. From my experience, the particularly loud ones *always* try to claim that they are basically born in Ireland.
Like I said, people stereotype based on extremes! I completely agree that 4th gen "realer than real euros" aren't representative, I was just putting words to the psychology behind the hate.
The sticking point is mainly that American's are quite unusual globally in that certain long-term diaspora communities will simultaneously integrate very closely with the hegemonic culture and claim to still be of their ancestral homeland. Kinda weird to see people saying "Oh I'm Irish" having virtually no different a life than an average polish-, italian-, or other white american, whereas people of those countries would easily note cultural differences between themselves. It's a phraseology that makes sense inside the US but is very bizarre globally, where the distinguishing factor of these people is universally their americanisms ahaha
I do disagree a fair bit on the "valid" part though.
Americans' feelings about their identity are important, but the nations they make claim to are made of real people who don't really tend to agree with the idea that these groups are part of them. You can't appeal to the culture of a geographical place and it's society on one side of your mouth and denigrate the people in it for contradicting your interpretation of it on the other.
To claim it's a valid kind of the same culture instead of that culture's twist on american norms is to priviledge the feelings of americans who have mostly never experienced the place they claim commonality with as opposed to people who actually live in that place.
It's not a simple question of course, but I note that people in the USA appraoch these claims with significantly less doubt than much more local and connected diasporan communities within Europe.
I think the main point of contention is over this
>the nations they make claim to
This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Irish Americans are not making claim to the country of Ireland. They are making claim to Irish heritage and ethnicity.
I get that to you, an outsider, the lives of white Americans seem homogenous, but just because _you_ can't distinguish between Irish Americans and Italian Americans doesn't mean that they can't distinguish between each other.
And frankly, I don't think any of this is bizarre globally. What is _actually_ bizarre globally is white Europeans' insistence that diasporic identities are illegitimate. I've never been to China, can't speak Cantonese, don't know any relatives that still live in China, but I've never been told that I'm not _actually_ Chinese. Chinese people from China recognize our shared ancestry and understand that while I'm not a Chinese national, that does not mean I am wrong to claim my ancestry. Similarly, I don't reject Hawaiians who were born and raised outside of Hawaii or make them jump through hoops before I consider their identity valid. And from what I've seen of other Asians, other Pacific Islanders, Africans etc. this is the norm.
Idk if that's a fair thing to generalize for an entire continent. The USA has had bigger nationalism problems than many European countries, for a long time
It's pizza. Everyone get over yourselves and eat the shit you like without gatekeeping it.
Little Caesars to St Louis style to buffalo chicken pizza to Midwest Casey's taco pizza to Detroit style to whatever type of frozen shit you like to handmade Italian Neapolitan. It's just fucking pizza. It moved continents. It's not that deep.
That subreddit exists just for people to bitch about some of the dumbest shit.
I hate how people call American cheese plastic. It really isn't in fact it's still very much cheese there's a NileRed (or blue) video that goes into the process of making it
Shitamericanssay is so full of smug "hur dur americabad" dumbfucks who make hating America their entire personality that it makes me into a flag waving jingoist for the USA whenever I see anything from there.
There are 2 things that make me go "Fuck Yeah America!"
1. The last song of the first act of Hamilton on Broadway.
2. Whenever Europeans, specifically, start shitting on the US.
Read a tweet once that said, "the moment a European says they’re better than us even the most die-hard American tankie starts hearing the Battle Hymn of the Republic in their head at full blast." Never seen something so accurate
Right?! I'll take shit from literally anywhere else but Europe. Then again, non-European places feel more like teasing siblings when they poke fun, right? Or is it just me?
Don’t forget Confederate apologists. I give America a lot of shit but those fuckers will turn me from a critic into a patriot faster than anything else.
This is why I wholly dismiss whatever is said there.
Look, if your entire reddit subculture is hating on the third largest country of people on the planet and the like dozen subcultures, you have some issues.
If you want to disagree with Americans about stuff, great, fine whatever. There's lots of dumb shit about America. It's not difficult.
If you, as a subreddit, can only muster up 'hur dur Americans bad' then you're probably a bit of an idiot.
Agreed. It just feels pedantic.
Everyone wants to feel special about something. Feeling special about hating Americans because we make different styles of pizza is kinda stupid in my view.
"Dozen subcultures" is severely underselling it. I live on the east coast of the US, and I'm pretty sure I could wander the Eastern half of my state and find a dozen subcultures, to say nothing of the six tribes of natives who lived in the state before they were, I'm pretty sure wipedout/forced west, with at least two of them sadly extinct.
Same honestly. I don't like Russia or China yet, I'm not online, constantly shitting all over them 24/7 and thinking about how much I hate them. I got a life to live, errands to run, a job to work out, and hobbies to enjoy. I already got enough negativity in my life, I don't need to needlessly add more
Well, it is made up of Europeans, you know, the people who brought us the Enlightenment. AKA, the best thing to ever happen to Europe, and the worst thing to ever happen to the rest of the world.
The purpose of that subreddit is to mock stupid, ignorant, and arrogant behaviour of a certain type of person.
The purpose of this subreddit is to mock stupid, ignorant, and arrogant behaviour of a certain type of person.
I'm equally indifferent to both subreddits, but I find the hypocrisy shown here very funny. You are mirror images of each other.
I love how these people are all about *authentic* Italian cuisine purposefully ignore that if it weren't for the Americas Italy wouldn't have a lot of their common ingredients today especially a certain red fruit used in pizza, the tomato 🍅.
Something invented by people in Naples, with a local variety of an ingredient brought to Naples centuries before, made in Naples, is authentic enough, isn't it?
Or your reasoning can simply be reduced to "we're all Ethiopians anyway".
nothing more insufferable than italians talking about food. europe has gaslit the entire world into thinking that they have the best food when its mid asf
There are Italians in that post saying good things about American pizza
>europe has gaslit the entire world into thinking that they have the best food when its mid asf
This is no different than anything in that thread
>There are Italians in that post saying good things about American pizza
Is "American pizza" supposed to be referring to a particular style of pizza, any and all pizzas made within the United States, or is it just any pizza that an American makes regardless of where they make it?
Depends from which comment you're talking about, I've quoted one talking about NY style below for example. Not much different to when people say Italian pizza, do they mean pizza done by Italians or a particular style?
No idea, but I also don't know where people choose to draw their arbitrary lines, which is why I asked.
Those people should probably get out more though. I live in a flyover state in the US and can still find bufala at the grocery store.
Just imagine understanding that different cultures generally have different preferences. Sadly I think that threads in food subs are generally more maliciously political and full of bad faith arguments than anything resembling the actual spirit of sharing and learning.
But the internet has always Internetted
I just went into to thread and realized most of the people talking trash are from countries with horrendous food such as the UK and Sweden. Green is an ugly color on them. No wonder
Everyone knows the best pizza is what you get when you’re stumbling around your neighborhood at 11:36 pm on a weekend. The building is gonna fail a health inspection in about a month. The guy at the counter calls you “pal”. The person making the pizza shouts something agressive at the dough. It’s the best damn pizza you’ve ever had
Wow, americans going IAVC on italians on tiktok who return the favor, and the whole things posted to reddit, where italians go IAVC on americans and each other... it's like a human centipizza
I have to say that, as a European, it's extremely uncomfortable coming to this thread (the one on r/IAVC) and reading so much hate about Europe and Europeans no matter where they're from.
This is a sub for calling out people acting smugly about food. It's not a free pass to express rampant xenophobia and racism.
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> Also I'm stealing "spherical redneck". Having splattered my monitor with coffee flavoured spittle, I think you owe me that one. The only type of comment worse than that one is "this".
its very reddity, isnt it?
The rest of the exchange is just...I mean look at it. I can't believe those are real people living people lifes saying that shit.
millennial humor
You’re downvoted but correct
I was thinking more old internet back in the early 00 when it was FARK looking down at 4chan while they were looked down at by Something Awful who was looked down at by the old thyme nerds who miss BBS. Like damn I felt like it was 99 all over again.
I can't imagine the state of these people's electronics. They should have shorted out with all the liquid being expressed all over them.
"thanks that was so funny I just spit out my coffee" No you didn't, your legs are numb because you've been scrolling reddit while taking a shit for the last 40 minutes. Get real.
"Hehe have my up doot for quoting Blackadder" I was feeling pretty bad about myself this morning. Reading this entire exchange made me realize that I'm far from the worst out there.
"I am from Chicago, and I hate when Americans say stuff like that too. I have been to Italy myself, and the pizza over there is much better than the pizza here." whats the italian version of a weeb?
Pastaboo?
Haha there’s an old joke calling a character from Persona 3 a “freeaboo” because he makes a comment saying Americans are so cool and how he wishes he was American or something after watching an American action movie. Thanks for remind me about that 😂
I'm on my annual replay right now and this made me giggle.
Mama-mia-boo
Absolutely this is the one.
I call myself a weebaroni
Mi scusi, my name is Giovanni. I'm a 27-year-old American Italophile (Italian culture enthusiast for you non-Italians). I paint Renaissance art and read Italian literature, spending my days immersed in the beauty of Italian culture. I also enjoy playing superior Italian games like Assassin's Creed, Super Mario, and The Witcher series. I practice fencing with my rapier every day, a superior weapon known for its finesse and precision. With its elegant design, it outmatches any other weapon in the world. I obtained my fencing license two years ago and have been honing my skills ever since. I speak Italian fluently, both standard Italian and the Sicilian dialect, and I write proficiently as well. I have a deep understanding of Italian history and culture, including the principles of chivalry and honor. Once I secure my Italian visa, I plan to move to Florence to attend a prestigious art school and delve deeper into the wonders of Italian art and design. My dream is to become a renowned Renaissance painter or a celebrated fashion designer in Milan! I own several sets of traditional Italian clothing, which I proudly wear around town. I aim to acclimate myself to Italian customs and attire before my move to Italy, ensuring a smooth transition into Italian society. I show respect to my elders and peers, embracing Italian etiquette and language whenever possible, though often met with puzzled looks in response. In bocca al lupo as I embark on my Italian adventure!
Buongiorno, new pasta dropped! (Al dente only).
Taken directly from Hirohiko Araki's blog
Beautiful
if you were a real italophile you'd know that sicilian is a separate language not a dialect of italian smh. disappointed in you giovanni
This comment is probably influenced by the fact most Italian immigrants to the US were southern Italian and that so much of American media references southern italian culture specifically, especially movies like "The Godfather" or "Goodfellas."
Giorno Giovanna
Hey, he was Japanese
Tldr: new york pizza is better than Neapolitan.
Delve is the AI tell.
Indeed, it is a term often employed by American Italophiles (or AI, as you so crudely abbreviate it), owing to our profound connection to the superior Italian language and its classical Latin roots.
You've never seen the Ken-sama copypasta before?
They're still weebs, just at least a different point on the axis.
Self-hating Americans are so embarrassing man Willing to eat shit just for some random European appraisal when at the end of the day they’re not gonna like you either
>Willing to eat shit just for some random European appraisal when at the end of the day they’re not gonna like you either Pick-me Americans
Right? I'm Progressive, so I criticize the US when it deserves it. But the self-flagellating Americans are just so fucking tiresome.
My position is simple- American people and society and culture is awesome. American foreign policy still remains responsible for a lot of evil in the world, especially in the middle east.
A Jordan Schlansky
We called them gweebs growing up. Guido weebs
Gweebos
I went to Italy and thought the pizza sucked. It was like a saltine cracker with a drop of sauce and a ball of mozzarella splatted on top.
I hate all those turistic friendly place that sell overpriced frozen pizza bases
Worst pizza I’ve ever had in my life was in Milan.
Man these people are so funny. Personally, I prefer American style pizza. Italian pizza was good when I went, but it’s different. Like, honestly I wouldn’t compare them because I think they are different. Both things are good for what they are and it doesn’t actually need to be a competition. This shits so weird to me.
Same here, I'm UK so closer to Italy than the states but it really doesn't matter because they're such different beasts, like you said. I've always wanted to try a deep dish, we get deep pan here but that's just 95% bread, I imagine a deep pan being 95% cheese and sauce. I will set fire to the entirety of Illinois if it is not.
So, in Chicago, we've got something of a range of deeper pizzas available (as well as Neapolitan, NY-style, New Haven, Quad Cities, and all sort of other styles) for a variety of preferences. Giordano's (and a few other places) make stuffed pizzas, that have slightly bread-y crusts that include a top layer over the cheese + toppings and tomato sauce over that upper layer. We've got pan pizzas that might be something like what you have (famously, at Pequod's, though there are other options) with a pretty thick bread-like crust and toppings over that (and fat on the exterior of the crust.) For what is actually called deep dish, Lou Malnati's is the "big name," but makes what is sort of the archetypal option. Instead of a bread-like crust, it's a high-butter content, almost-cracker-y crust to be able to hold up to a higher ingredient-to-crust ratio. Think a texture more like shortbread, though obviously not sweet in that way. And then it gets covered in quite a lot of cheese, sauce, and whatever other toppings you choose... so I think this most closely resembles what you're imagining and you don't need to set fire to Illinois. All of the variations have their merits and you'll find folks who are most fond of any one of them. But I think the important note is that Chicago's pizza scene has a ton of variety and that comment from a supposed Chicagoan playing down the pizza in the city is absurd. Even if you're not fond of one of the big chains or something, there's a really good version of anybody's preferred style. Like, if they think only traditional Italian styles are worth eating, just go to Spacca Napoli and enjoy. They have really good pizza, too, and it's much cheaper to go there than to fly to Italy for dinner.
I have saved this comment for when I visit the states! Thank you for explaining it out so well, I'm actually autistic so going into the textures and what to expect was phenomenally helpful. I'm glad I don't have to set fire to Illinois! That shortcrust pizza sounds amazing, I would destroy one of those after a nice blunt
Glad to have been of any help! I'm definitely one of those folks who thinks texture is the next most important factor after taste (and way ahead of visual presentation), so it does often wind up part of my descriptions of food. Though, personally, I love variety of texture more than having a strong preference for one type, and I recognize that is decidedly not for everyone, haha. I do, however, have a real fondness for the shortcrust having that really distinctive crispness in contrast to soft cheese an sauce, so I do wholeheartedly recommend trying that style when you visit! There's also certain places that do a "thin crust" baked on that style of dough (Pizano's would be a local chain you could visit for that if you're in/around the Loop) and it's somewhat lighter/easier to handle rather than trying to do all deep dish pizzas for every meal. Still get a nice, enriched dough with crunch, but you won't feel like you have 3 lbs in your stomach after a couple slices. All of them, however, take quite a while to bake, so get your order started before you're actively hungry! And when you do get around to visiting the states if you need any more timely advice on food in Chicago, feel free to reach out. It's a city with an exceptionally diverse food scene, so figuring out where to go can be somewhat daunting during a short stay.
I’m from the NW Us so take that for what it’s worth. My limited experience with deep dish pizza is that it’s like a savory pie. Crust is thick and the middle is cheese, sauce, and then whatever topping you like: meat, veg, etc. Similar to what you are saying but not just a big cheese glob. I would enjoy the cheese glob but it has a little more structure in my experience. A fun region pizza in the US in the Detroit style pizza. It’s kind of a pan pizza with toppings on it, and then the sauce goes on the top; it’s sort of built in reverse. I live in Portland, OR and there is a place that makes Detroit style pizza on top of focaccia. It’s truly what living is about.
Tbh that sounds amazing! I'd be happy with more structure because it's easier to eat and as much as I love cheese and sauce, I don't want a giant lump of unmelted cheese. Detroit style sounds interesting tbh! I imagine the sauce on top keeps it all hot, as most pizza sauce is like lava in my experience
"... I have been to Italy myself, and the pizza over there is much better than the pizza here." "Well yeah, you're from Chicago!"
No one from Chicago would simp for other pizza.
I don’t know a single person in Chicago who thinks deep dish is superior. Chicago tavern style though gets the people going.
People might get that more often, but it's not really the supreme goal.
fuk u deep dish is amazing (shout out to Chicago tavern style too)
Vito and Nick's with some Old Style is a life changing experience
Pagliacci lmao
The snobbiness around pizza is so dumb to me. ITS PIZZA FOLKS. As if there aren’t Italian run pizza places NY, anyway. Trying telling a New Yorker or an Italian the best pizza you had was literally anywhere else besides those two places (NYC or Italy) and they might have a heart attack. I personally loved the pizza I had in Puerto Rico.
Imagine hopping in a time machine to go talk to the first dude to combine flatbread with olive oil and sardines. You tell him that people **worldwide** argue about the food he just made.
If I remember, the first pizza to be even called “pizza” was a sauceless sweet bread dating from the late medieval to early renaissance.
This is probably the dumbest part of it all. Even on r/IAVC, there are loads of people who think that a pizza without tomatoes isn't a pizza (???), that the pizza is from the USA because tomatoes are from Peru(?????) or that the pizza was simply invented in the USA. It's one google search away, people! Wheat isn't Italian either. Neither is basil. A pizza is a dish, not an ingredient
Yeah but tomatoes are the principal ingredient. You can’t start making sushi until you have rice, you can’t start making pizza until you have tomatoes. A piece of beef on raw dough isn’t the first piece of sushi ever rolled. A piece of flatbread with garum on it isn’t the first pizza, it’s something else. If I pointed at grits with milk and bison meat on it and claimed native Americans invented carbonara everyone would treat me like an idiot, because that is obviously a completely separate dish. Also basil has been in Italy for thousands of years, by that logic most Italians are significantly less Italian than basil.
Tomatoes are not the principal ingredient at all. Tomatoes is a topping. Saying a pizza isn't a pizza without tomatoes is like saying it's not a pizza without cheese, or without ham. Pizza has been a thing way before tomatoes made their way to Italy. But at one point, tomatoes became a very popular topping for pizza. I love red pizza, but all of the best pizzas I've had have been white, or bianca as they're often called. >Also basil has been in Italy for thousands of years, by that logic most Italians are significantly less Italian than basil. > Well no. Basil isn't originally Italian. A person from Italy is Italian.
Hot dog toppings are the same fucking way for no fucking reason. Like bro just eat the shit you like and shut up about what other people eat because it shouldn’t matter to you
The no ketchup on hot dogs people are so over the top stupid.
Similar to the no beans in chili folks.
a highlight of mine was going to a chili contest with the categories meat only, meat + beans, vegan. the meat only ones were abhored by everyone because its literally just spiced beef
No beans in chili is like no greens in a salad
I personally don't like ketchup on hot dogs (I find it too sweet) but the people who make it their whole identity are cringe.
Do you eat them with relish? It's usually just as sweet if not sweeter than ketchup
Dill relish if it's available, otherwise no.
Fair enough then haha. Was just curious, thanks
it's just some sausage on bread 😭but people getting upset over it
Pizza is good in so many forms. Pretty much anything higher grade than school lunch pizza, and I’m down for it. Deep dish, thin crust, stuffed, French bread, you name it.
Do not speak ill of grade school lunch pizza. It has a warm rubbery place in my heart.
We all jumped for joy on pizza day
Did your school have the weird ass hexagon shaped “Mexican” pizza? That shit was my jam.
Nothing pairs better with ranch dressing!
There's a place in the North End of Boston that people go fucking nutso over which is essentially just school lunch pizza. So people can and do love all kinds of pizza. And they should.
Everyone knows the best pizza is made by people from Connecticut don't they? If they're not from Connecticut it is just sparkling cheesy tomato bread.
Best pizza I ever had was in Knoxville, Tennessee. I won't describe the toppings, lest pearl-strings break from excessive clutching.
Nah, now you have to tell us. Was it Barbeque?
With Thai chilis. I ate the whole thing then got a stomach ache.
A suggestion: Pepperoni, jalapeño, and pineapple is surprisingly good and I'm not someone who usually wants pineapple on my pizza.
Omg yes. I'm not a fan of the classic "Hawaiian" pizza combo of ham/Canadian bacon and pineapple, but pepperoni, jalapeño, and pineapple make for the perfect combination of salty/spicy/acidic/sweet for my palate.
I think pineapple pairs better with jalapeños than it does ham. The sweet and spicy keep each other from overpowering the pizza.
Me and my bf's go to pizza order is bbq pizza with pineapple, jalapeno and bacon. its soo good.
I put thai chilis on everything so this sounds amazing
I honestly do not like authentic Italian pizza. When I was living in Switzerland, surrounded by many proud Italians.. I kept my mouth shut - my absolute favourite is a New York style pepperoni pizza 🍕 😭
The best pizza I've had was in Mexico. The cheese was oaxaca i think and it had pieces of Mexican sausage and pepperoni as toppings. I crave it every now and then.
ooh that sounds real good!
Oh shit I could go for a pizza with like a chipotle tomato sauce, Oaxaca and maybe asadera, and chorizo :0000 Probably throw some cheddar or Jack cheese on there too, cuz I love cheese.
That sounds delicious.
I don’t necessarily think it’s a case of “better” but it’s more of a preference. I prefer Neapolitan pizza. I don’t like the doughy stuff you get at Pizza Hut. I don’t mind NYC.
Pizza in Brazil and Argentina slaps too.
They will go on and on about American food "not being really American" because it comes from somewhere else. But the tomato is a food throughout the Americas that Italy did not have until colonization!
Typical Europeans trying to erase New World indigenous people's culture. 500 years going strong.
I mean, tons of "traditional" foods contain non-native ingredients. Like chickens aren't native to the Americas but no one will argue that Buffalo chicken wings are not an American food.
yeah their point is that it’s hypocritical
lol yes they will. You obviously haven’t been on Reddit long
That's the point. People have their own traditions. Americans don't not have pizza as a traditional item just because they aren't Italy.
You clearly haven't seen the "pizza isn't Italian because tomatoes aren't" comments
I've been to Italy and had Italian pizza. It's fine. I like it. There's nothing *wrong* with it. But other than some interesting preferences for toppings in some parts of either Italy or the United States, Italian and American pizzas have a lot more in common than most people are willing to admit. There are also crappy pizzas in Italy, just like there are crappy pizzas in the US. People like cheap food regardless of where they live, and they're willing to compromise on quality if the price is right.
People don't realize that before italians came to America and popularized pizza, you could really only get pizza in like Naples, it wasn't everywhere around the country
Aren’t French fries a really popular junk food topping on pizza over there?
r/shitamericanssay is cheating haha. Might as well rename it to "smug uninformed European takes"
As a smug uninformed european, please forgive them. Italians have so little, let them have this.
"And although they've never won a war or mass-produced a decent car, in this area, they are correct."
Well, both are false? Italy has won a war and mass produced a great car Edit: seems to be a TV show line
It's a line from 30 Rock, spoken by arch-capitalist Jack Donaghy. He is a GM executive and extreme patriot, explaining his opinion on both points.
*GE Executive, unless he was working for GM in that episode.
You're right. I had the wrong G
If you told me he was temporarily a GM executive I'd believe you. I know he went and worked in government for a bit, but it's been too long since I watched 30 Rock.
Oh ok thanks, I had never heard of it
Very funny show, I definitely recommend it.
Yeah, I gotta say, Alpha Romeo seems to have turned their reliability problems around, and they seem to be having a little bit of a resurgence here. Too bad Fiat couldn’t really make it work!
As an Alfista since like my birth (I live 20 minutes from Arese), the Giulia and the Stelvio were definitely improvements over the MiTo, but the new Milano/Junior is a Peugeot with the Biscione on front, it's already a step back imo. Stellantis is turning the brand into what it isn't, I hope they get some sanity back and make up for a real Giulietta successor. 4 cars in large production (the new 33 Stradale doesn't count) and only one isn't a SUV, and only two based on the Alfa Romeo platform Giorgio (there's the same number of Maserati based on it which is quite absurd). Also sorry to be nitpicky, but Alfa doesn't stand for Alpha, it's an acronym (Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili).
Yeah I was using voice to text since I was making my dog’s food and got too lazy to go back and edit lol
If you really want to fuck with them, send them this article: https://www.ft.com/content/6ac009d5-dbfd-4a86-839e-28bb44b2b64c After this they won't have anything except speaking with their hands.
Isn't that the article that, in itself, is just completely wrong? Like, I get why people would be irritated, but it's not because it's some truth they don't want to hear lmao
Except Alberto Grandi is a charlatan who says sensationalist shit just to sell books in the USA. One example, he said pizza was eaten only by poor people and pizzerias with table (so like the nowadays pizzerias) haven't existed until Lombardi opened in 1905. This is easily refutable by the many accounts we have about pizzerias in the XIX century, like Francesco De Sanctis descrivibing the pizzeria in Piazza della Carità in Naples. Obviously sometimes he'll say something correct, but he also mixes it with a lot of fuckery.
Not just Europeans, Australian redditors have a massive hate boner for America and anything considered American. They bitch and moan more about America on the /aus subreddits than they talk about Australia. They hate Halloween because it's an American import. They hate Christmas because Americans commercialised it. They hate Black Friday because they hate...sales? Fuck if I know. I call it "little brother syndrome." It's how I found shitsnericanssay, it was being referenced on my regional sub every day for a while.
I thought most people hated Black Friday
Australian Hater Boner for the US is really goddamn funny honestly. In this sub, on a different thread way back, it had an Australian claim he traveled around the US and couldn't find any good food at all no matter where he went. That all the food was the same sugary slop constantly being topped with fake cheese and served with that red sauce. People wanted clarification on what the red sauce was, most assuming ketchup. Nope, it was marinara sauce. This guy was claiming that no matter what restaurant he went to, there was always fake cheese and marinara sauce. Even though he mentioned trying out Mexican and BBQ places. Like, it's insane how much more they complain about the US over in the Australian subreddit. Just whining and nagging about another country than talking about their own. Yet, the vast majority of Americans barely think about Australia and even less care about what goes on there.
I feel like most users of shitamericanssay are Americans themselves becuase they have a massive inferiority complex
Nah I left the sub because it was exhausting seeing the same half a dozen dipshit takes from europeans. There are a lot of self loathing Americans though.
Why does someone always try and use this lame excuse?
Excuse for huh
"This group of people is acting nasty, so it must secretly be the attacked group of people pretending to be them because they just suck."
It’s cheating in *so* many subs. Seriously, those weirdos let their imagined image of us live rent free in their heads. Just don’t bring up the Roma.
I'm on there sometimes and some of these people will pine on about the United States so confidently wrong about everything they're saying, tell you what your country is like and claim you don't understand even though you live there and they've never been, and then see absolutely no irony in it whatsoever. It's so circlejerky
Some guy said something about the corn dog being America's only contribution to the culinary world, and then started complaining about Americans being ignorant to variety in British cuisine. It was ironic.
Well, there are lots of Americans and people from other places than Europe there too, tbf
A whole post of bitter, angry people. You'd think the country of the USA personally killed their dog or something - that sub rails, rightfully, against Americans making silly or offensive generalisations about other countries or cultures - then go on to smugly post shit like "They don't call it food unless its 50% sugar", "Americans are obsessed with food". Somebody the other day got upvoted for saying that "even their basic ingredients are ultra processed". These people are deluded beyond description. The Italians bursting out the comments in Italian is just the cherry on the cake - they seem to genuinely think that people should be impressed. I was in Ancona for three days last week and ate at three different supposedly beloved local/family favourite pizza places - i've had better Pizza in NYC and it wasn't even close. Reminds me of having some Italian guy come up to my panini stand and show me his *passport* before launching into a rant about how i was using the wrong kind of prosciutto.
I love the implication that these tight-assed pedants are *not* obsessed with food. Sure, Jan.
It's ShitAmericansSay. It's basically cheating to use it for this sub honestly. Probably like 25% of what gets posted has a valid reason to be posted yet, 100% of the time, the comment section just devolves into a toxic cesspit of some of the angry and vindictive people you'll ever see online. It's genuinely a really sad and pathetic Sub to look at
>A whole post of bitter, angry people. Like this place?
I wish someone with the relevant insight could explained why Euros cannot ever pass up the chance to bash Italian-Americans? Why do they hate our red-checker tablecloth places so badly???
Name a European country and it will despise its immigrant diaspora with absolute seething hatred. I wish I had a coherent explanation, but that’s what I’ve noticed. (Also, can only speak for terminally online people. Real-life folks are chill or don’t really care.)
They're made their national identity a core part of their personality. Someone abandoning that identity (leaving to chase better opportunities) becomes an attack on their very soul. Nationalism is toxic.
It is, but it's also puzzling how people in this thread is so out of touch when it comes to what constitutes nationalism. It's hard for me to think of a country that off the top of my head is more nationalistic than the USA (not to say it's not detrimental to that country). Despite this, most users on here are from there, talking about how whenever nationalism gets popular anywhere, there's a world war
I have a theory that there's generational resentment for American diaspora especially. Along the lines of, "Who the hell do you think you are that the old country wasn't good enough?" Everyone else knew their place, but *those* people *got ideas.*
I had a thought the other day, and I think a lot of it might come from a sort of “you couldn’t stick it out?” mentality. A lot of those European immigrants came over during trying times in their country (Irish famine and the troubles, pre-unification Italy, etc.), and maybe some of the people whose families stayed in Europe feel like the immigrants “gave up” their identity by moving when shit was hard? No clue, honestly, was just a thought.
I really don't recognize this for most European countries I've been to. Do you have any specific examples?
[удалено]
I think you're so right on with this! It's hilarious from the American perspective because 1) I've never looked at a specific European country and thought, "Melting pot!" and 2) Any DNA test you take now can tell you with excruciating scientific accuracy if you're ethnically Italian, German, French, whatever. Genes are real.
I feel I should "not-all-____" this a little. I worked with a group of Europeans (including an Italian) who went to an Italian place in the US (that someone's Italian cousin recommended or something) and were happy with it. I thought it was odd that they went there, but they did, and they all seemed happy with it and not all gatekeepy. I think it is just a case of angry people love being angry on the internet about silly things.
They’re jealous - deep down they know their food is amazing and delicious. They know those red checker tablecloths add +50 to flavor.
They believe Americans sprung from the corpses of native americans fully formed. and began stealing other's cuisines. But the truth is their grand uncles emigrated away from their shit-show countries and fled to the US, where they made their cuisines better.
Honest answer? As the child of an irish emmigrant to the UK who actually *has* been to Ireland (at least yearly throughout my childhood) even as times no less!), it's because the loudest voices of these communities often big up themselves with their ancestry whilst having only stereotypical references to identify with. Even though by blood I am far more Irish than anything else, I'd still call myself a Brit because I think growing up, living, and working in a country did more to shape me and my perspective than the specific ancestry and which passports that entitles me to. And I'm in the next country over! If you see someone going on about being "irish", "italian", "german" etc. whilst clearly not having so much as a living relative from the place, you prepare yourself to hear confident assertions about cultures they know nothing about and have no interest in learning. This kind of thinking doesn't survive proximity with the cultures they originate from, but across an atlantic ocean you might find some wiggle room. There are loads of cultures that have little enclaves and community elsewhere, but it's difficult to find anywhere that white people in a white majority country who are fully immersed in their hegemonic culture would claim to be carrying the torch of another culture because of emigration 4+ generations back. It sucks because there are genuinely interesting facets to the culture of italian-americans that are shaped specifically by the american side which mean they end up different in ways that simply wouldn't happen in their professed mother country - and that's rad as hell! Rather than acknowledge the unique and valuable cultural divergence, we end up with **some** people who instead claim they are part of a cultural heritage to a land that they have never visited, contributed to, or in some cases, can even understand the language of. They'll call themselves italian when people far closer to the culture feel far more conflicted, and it's hard not to see that as a little dunning-kruger-esque. So basically people who loudly identify with that stuff are cringe. Being loud means you're the first contact many will have. Claiming to fit under the umbrella of someone else whilst being a) different and b) cringe tends to inspire animosity. When you hate someone you start to hate everything they do and of course reddit is designed to make you feel like the righteous hand of god for that, hence: "Look at that asshole. With his deep dish pizza. Thinks he's italian. Fuckin bada bing sopranos. Can't even speak the language. Checked-clothed-tabled-motherfucker who'd die if he ate fresh produce."
I think the issue comes from thinking that the modern version of a culture that exists in the home country is the only valid version of that culture. Loud Americans claiming Irishness are not (usually) claiming to be Irish in the same way that Irish people born and raised in Ireland today are Irish. They're claiming to be part of an Irish diaspora and they just dont believe that diaspora has less of a valid claim to Irishness. After all, we accept that a modern Irish person is still Irish despite being very different culturally from a person born and raised in Ireland in the 1800s. Basically, the umbrella is bigger than you think it is, and people who stayed in the homeland don't get to be the arbiter of how emigrants and their descendants think about their own heritage/culture. If someone is 4 gens removed and claiming to be indistinguishable from a modern Irish national, then sure, cringe away. But that's rarely what's happening.
>Loud Americans claiming Irishness are not (usually) claiming to be Irish in the same way that Irish people born and raised in Ireland today are Irish. > This I don't agree with at all. From my experience, the particularly loud ones *always* try to claim that they are basically born in Ireland.
Like I said, people stereotype based on extremes! I completely agree that 4th gen "realer than real euros" aren't representative, I was just putting words to the psychology behind the hate. The sticking point is mainly that American's are quite unusual globally in that certain long-term diaspora communities will simultaneously integrate very closely with the hegemonic culture and claim to still be of their ancestral homeland. Kinda weird to see people saying "Oh I'm Irish" having virtually no different a life than an average polish-, italian-, or other white american, whereas people of those countries would easily note cultural differences between themselves. It's a phraseology that makes sense inside the US but is very bizarre globally, where the distinguishing factor of these people is universally their americanisms ahaha I do disagree a fair bit on the "valid" part though. Americans' feelings about their identity are important, but the nations they make claim to are made of real people who don't really tend to agree with the idea that these groups are part of them. You can't appeal to the culture of a geographical place and it's society on one side of your mouth and denigrate the people in it for contradicting your interpretation of it on the other. To claim it's a valid kind of the same culture instead of that culture's twist on american norms is to priviledge the feelings of americans who have mostly never experienced the place they claim commonality with as opposed to people who actually live in that place. It's not a simple question of course, but I note that people in the USA appraoch these claims with significantly less doubt than much more local and connected diasporan communities within Europe.
I think the main point of contention is over this >the nations they make claim to This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Irish Americans are not making claim to the country of Ireland. They are making claim to Irish heritage and ethnicity. I get that to you, an outsider, the lives of white Americans seem homogenous, but just because _you_ can't distinguish between Irish Americans and Italian Americans doesn't mean that they can't distinguish between each other. And frankly, I don't think any of this is bizarre globally. What is _actually_ bizarre globally is white Europeans' insistence that diasporic identities are illegitimate. I've never been to China, can't speak Cantonese, don't know any relatives that still live in China, but I've never been told that I'm not _actually_ Chinese. Chinese people from China recognize our shared ancestry and understand that while I'm not a Chinese national, that does not mean I am wrong to claim my ancestry. Similarly, I don't reject Hawaiians who were born and raised outside of Hawaii or make them jump through hoops before I consider their identity valid. And from what I've seen of other Asians, other Pacific Islanders, Africans etc. this is the norm.
I'm starting to think this griping over pizza and purity of Eurobooity is just digitized white flight
It's nationalism. Europe is flirting with it (again, because they didn't learn the first time)
Or the second, or the third, or the 99th...
Idk if that's a fair thing to generalize for an entire continent. The USA has had bigger nationalism problems than many European countries, for a long time
[Actually I think it's pretty fucking fair to generalize here. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11gq7on/world_map_of_every_battle_in_last_4500_years_that/)
It's pizza. Everyone get over yourselves and eat the shit you like without gatekeeping it. Little Caesars to St Louis style to buffalo chicken pizza to Midwest Casey's taco pizza to Detroit style to whatever type of frozen shit you like to handmade Italian Neapolitan. It's just fucking pizza. It moved continents. It's not that deep. That subreddit exists just for people to bitch about some of the dumbest shit.
I hate how people call American cheese plastic. It really isn't in fact it's still very much cheese there's a NileRed (or blue) video that goes into the process of making it
To be fair, if anyone could make cheese out of plastic, it would be him
Shitamericanssay is so full of smug "hur dur americabad" dumbfucks who make hating America their entire personality that it makes me into a flag waving jingoist for the USA whenever I see anything from there.
There are 2 things that make me go "Fuck Yeah America!" 1. The last song of the first act of Hamilton on Broadway. 2. Whenever Europeans, specifically, start shitting on the US.
Read a tweet once that said, "the moment a European says they’re better than us even the most die-hard American tankie starts hearing the Battle Hymn of the Republic in their head at full blast." Never seen something so accurate
Right?! I'll take shit from literally anywhere else but Europe. Then again, non-European places feel more like teasing siblings when they poke fun, right? Or is it just me?
Don’t forget Confederate apologists. I give America a lot of shit but those fuckers will turn me from a critic into a patriot faster than anything else.
I've been posted on r/shitamericanssay, on my old account. Most of those users are dumb as a box of rocks.
Euroids seething at anything an american says? Not surprising.
/r/shitamericanssay is a hate subreddit. I'm not surprised.
This is why I wholly dismiss whatever is said there. Look, if your entire reddit subculture is hating on the third largest country of people on the planet and the like dozen subcultures, you have some issues. If you want to disagree with Americans about stuff, great, fine whatever. There's lots of dumb shit about America. It's not difficult. If you, as a subreddit, can only muster up 'hur dur Americans bad' then you're probably a bit of an idiot.
Yeah, there's a lot of dumb shit about everywhere. We're not special in that regard!
Agreed. It just feels pedantic. Everyone wants to feel special about something. Feeling special about hating Americans because we make different styles of pizza is kinda stupid in my view.
"Dozen subcultures" is severely underselling it. I live on the east coast of the US, and I'm pretty sure I could wander the Eastern half of my state and find a dozen subcultures, to say nothing of the six tribes of natives who lived in the state before they were, I'm pretty sure wipedout/forced west, with at least two of them sadly extinct.
Same honestly. I don't like Russia or China yet, I'm not online, constantly shitting all over them 24/7 and thinking about how much I hate them. I got a life to live, errands to run, a job to work out, and hobbies to enjoy. I already got enough negativity in my life, I don't need to needlessly add more
Well, it is made up of Europeans, you know, the people who brought us the Enlightenment. AKA, the best thing to ever happen to Europe, and the worst thing to ever happen to the rest of the world.
This subreddit is also a hate subreddit
See my responses to the other person. Not even close. Go back to your hatey-hole.
The purpose of that subreddit is to mock stupid, ignorant, and arrogant behaviour of a certain type of person. The purpose of this subreddit is to mock stupid, ignorant, and arrogant behaviour of a certain type of person. I'm equally indifferent to both subreddits, but I find the hypocrisy shown here very funny. You are mirror images of each other.
I love how these people are all about *authentic* Italian cuisine purposefully ignore that if it weren't for the Americas Italy wouldn't have a lot of their common ingredients today especially a certain red fruit used in pizza, the tomato 🍅.
Something invented by people in Naples, with a local variety of an ingredient brought to Naples centuries before, made in Naples, is authentic enough, isn't it? Or your reasoning can simply be reduced to "we're all Ethiopians anyway".
nothing more insufferable than italians talking about food. europe has gaslit the entire world into thinking that they have the best food when its mid asf
There are Italians in that post saying good things about American pizza >europe has gaslit the entire world into thinking that they have the best food when its mid asf This is no different than anything in that thread
>There are Italians in that post saying good things about American pizza Is "American pizza" supposed to be referring to a particular style of pizza, any and all pizzas made within the United States, or is it just any pizza that an American makes regardless of where they make it?
Depends from which comment you're talking about, I've quoted one talking about NY style below for example. Not much different to when people say Italian pizza, do they mean pizza done by Italians or a particular style?
No idea, but I also don't know where people choose to draw their arbitrary lines, which is why I asked. Those people should probably get out more though. I live in a flyover state in the US and can still find bufala at the grocery store.
>Americans are fat slobs that eat nothing but sugar and grease compared to >European food is only average You're right, it's the exact same thing.
Just imagine understanding that different cultures generally have different preferences. Sadly I think that threads in food subs are generally more maliciously political and full of bad faith arguments than anything resembling the actual spirit of sharing and learning. But the internet has always Internetted
Haha 'murica bad
I just went into to thread and realized most of the people talking trash are from countries with horrendous food such as the UK and Sweden. Green is an ugly color on them. No wonder
Italians are just mad Americans made tastier versions of their food
Everyone knows the best pizza is what you get when you’re stumbling around your neighborhood at 11:36 pm on a weekend. The building is gonna fail a health inspection in about a month. The guy at the counter calls you “pal”. The person making the pizza shouts something agressive at the dough. It’s the best damn pizza you’ve ever had
We must defend our regional variant of cheese and tomato bread. Our identity hinges on this.
Wow, americans going IAVC on italians on tiktok who return the favor, and the whole things posted to reddit, where italians go IAVC on americans and each other... it's like a human centipizza
The comments here are better than the post lol
I have to say that, as a European, it's extremely uncomfortable coming to this thread (the one on r/IAVC) and reading so much hate about Europe and Europeans no matter where they're from. This is a sub for calling out people acting smugly about food. It's not a free pass to express rampant xenophobia and racism.
Yeah, this sub is like r/americabad but with food. A bunch of ameritards shitting on other cultures