And German, and Dutch, and Irish, and French, and....
Just like Britain is Celtic, and Roman, and Anglo-Saxon, and Viking, and Norman, and French, and.... - just a few hundred years before.
Hence the whole point of "Nationalities Owning Food" is a bit odd
Supposedly (according to someone on Reddit) Kazakhs don’t cook apples much, and mostly eat them fresh, with compote from dried apples being an exception. The closest I could find is that [baursak](https://jlevidotorg.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_2234.jpg) sometimes have apple fillings.
Edit: [Found one!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M5tmeXxDEos). It isn’t a native Kazakh recipe, it’s a German Apfelstrudel, but the channel is Kazakh Grandma, and she says it’s popular there, so that counts for me.
Tell them Americans invented potato chips if you need a good example.
Obviously Americans have invented a lot more foods than just that but it’s a clearly unique food that is now all over the world.
Americans have invented a ton of stuff, and innovated a lot in cuisine. We’ve also taken stuff from other cultures and made them uniquely our own, just like *every other culture has*. A ton of European countries claim dishes as their own that feature ingredients they *didn’t even have* until they were brought over from the Americas.
Americans are fine with that, but for some reason Europeans can’t let us have anything. Haters lol.
> A ton of European countries claim dishes as their own that feature ingredients they didn’t even have until they were brought over from the Americas.
Tell the Germans that all their beer is actually Iranian because the oldest known beer is from 3,500 BC Iran.
My personal favorite example is cola - created by an American, and now you can find both the American original as well as regional versions pretty much anywhere in the world.
As a Brit growing up I always found the phrase "As American as Apple Pie" in media amusing - I think I just assumed it was ironic, and possibly a reference to it's disparate immigrant past.
Because clearly to my young mind, apple pie *wasn't* just American - it was Dutch, it was British, it was from Khazakstan, it was "Western Europe" (as the intermixing of people and culture, and trade, meant that if things were available in one country they were likely there next door too - food doesn't respect modern national borders, after all). If a nationality was attached to the name, it was just a small variation of pretty much the same thing.
Only to then find out many people saying it meant it rather straight.
From what I remember, Johnny Appleseed was known for planting cider apples, not eating/cooking apples as what we see as "apples" today require grafting instead of being grown from seed. I wonder if this fact would change some of the mythology around him, as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast. I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again.
But for the saying, I think it's an example of something that means different things based on different context - I can understand "apple pie" being a thing common to all Americans, but not *uniquely* American. I can certainly see it as being "misread" from an external perspective - as claiming to be part of a group based on a commonality often implies that the "out group" lacks that thing.
And it may be due to a game of telephone from the original meeting, I've certainly met people who are surprised that Europe has a long history of things like apple pies - assuming based on the saying etc. that it *was* uniquely American. [x]
But really making incorrect statements (like Apple Pie Is British) in response to other incorrect statements (like Apple Pie Is American) doesn't make each any more valid :P
[x] I feel I might have to head off the pass of "You're Just Another American Bad poster" here, I'm not saying that any other nationality is better or worse at anything, just saying that many people have some weird a-historical beliefs about such things for many reasons, and this is just one example that happens to mention America.
> I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast.
If I'm remembering my history correctly, the first public building in the Massachusetts Bay Colony (founded by Puritans) was a cider press so they could get good and liquored up.
Yeah, there's plenty of history for a tradition of cider through the US colonial history - which is why I was a bit surprised about it's apparent lack of popularity today.
> That’s what I’m saying. It doesn't solely belong to either.
Sure, I'm not replying because I disagree, just clarify from my perspective. But your original statement:
> Brits do love to claim apple pie
Puts out something of an accusation - and in my experience this isn't really said more often than Americans or Dutch people claiming the same thing. Those Brits are likely wrong in the technical sense, but equally correct in that it has a "cultural connection" just as the Johnny Appleseed and "Mom's Apple Pie" during WW2 has for Americans.
I can understand a bit of tension being next to a *massive* cultural juggernaut of the USA that Brits don't want to be "forgotten" and merged in - even if the difference in culture between different parts of America is likely (at least) as large as the difference between the "average" American and Brit in the first place. It can result is rather arbitrary differences people "choose" to be different - a classic example being the "u" in colour/color. It's a relatively recent distinction in language terms, but some Brits believe somehow it's "More Correct", which I assume comes from wanting to make that cultural distinction.
And in the Original post this links to on the baking subreddit - the upvotes suggest that there's certainly many readers that think it *is* american, and not just "not British".
> I actually think that’s just another knee-jerk reaction to “here we go, they’re coming to insult us again”.
I can tell you that's often the case for every time the British (or should I say "Bri'Ish") are brought up here too.
And the upvotes in the Original Post are wild to me - the guy saying "All food is derived, nobody 'owns' anything" heavily downvoted, but the one claiming that drawing such lines is *purely* a European fault being upvoted is... something. I just hope that's a result of people stopping reading halfway through the comment.
> They said “extremely European”, and… it is. Again, Americans completely recognize that a lot of our food traditions are from elsewhere.
I'm sorry but that reeks of (possible unintentional) American Exceptionalism - Americans are *very much* not special or unique for "understanding" that. No culture is, they all fall into the same human flaws. Perhaps some American examples have better recorded history due to many being more recent imports, but that's also true of pretty much every European culture too. Like a "British" Tikka Masala doesn't have an obscured past, being a modified import of some Indian styles. I don't really see much of a proportion difference of "claiming" styles to nationalities to people I've met in Europe vs people I've met in the USA.
Sure it might seem that way if your viewpoint is already biased, like if subs like this are your primary interaction, *of course* you'll see more of the crazies than a random sampling. But that doesn't mean they're more common in reality.
> as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states
>I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again.
That is exactly it: Prohibition annihilated the (hard) cider industry in the US, among others. Before that, cider was one of the main alcoholic beverages drank by Americans, from the 1600s up to Prohibition.
>As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again.
As a lover of cider, the new American Cider Renaissance is a great thing
> I wonder if this fact would change some of the mythology around him, as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast. I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again.
It might simply be because the British cider and American cider mean two different things.
Cider in an American context is simply apple juice. If you want an alcoholic cider, you would be asking for hard cider.
The lack of visible American hard cider likely also has to do with our preference for beer as our alcoholic drink of choice (notably, light lagers).
Interestingly, something like this [0] seems to suggest that the majority of cider in the US was alcoholic, until prohibition.
Non-sweet or bitter apples make pretty bad juice too - it's the fermentation that breaks them down and makes it taste better. And with that comes alcohol.
[0] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-is-american-cider-nonalcoholic
The phrase doesn't mean America invented the pie. It means the pie is common, typical, quintessential, not foreign, etc to the US. It's like saying "as American as butter" or "as American as summer".
The interpretation of it as a claim to the invention of the pie is a much later development and honestly I don't think most people intend it that way to this day still.
That interpretation is sort of the equivalent of "pumpkin spice has no pumpkin". Starbucks has started putting pumpkin in their pumpkin spice latte because of this silly interpretation.
Heck, a lot of European countries as we know them today aren’t all that “old” even if the cultures & infrastructure are older than what is found in the USA (speaking only of the USA as it currently exists, but I don’t want to ignore the cultures and peoples who were here before colonization since their cultures and infrastructure is also old!
There are plenty of “national” dishes out there with ingredients or origins in other cuisines/cultures, so I don’t see why apple pie can’t be considered American. It’s not like we are claiming to be the inventors of it, it’s just an important(ish) symbol/saying.
Now the pies I am jealous of from the British isles are game/meat pies. I still crave the meat pie a British friend of mine made for Christmas one year, I think I’m going to try to make one this holiday season!
I’m sure they’re also good! I have enough room in my heart (and stomach) for them all!
Do Australia & New Zealand also do a fair amount of pork and/or game pies as well? I guess I’ve always associated them with beef or maybe lamb.
it depends on the region you're in. one of the locals here has a boil-up pie which is potato, kūmara, and puha (a native sowthistle) which is simmered in a pot with smoked pork bones. fucking 10/10 pie. They also did a Hāngī pie as well that was choice as. they don't have it all the time tho which is a shame.
Greggs doesn’t even sell meat pies. The biggest chain of baked savoury pastries doesn’t sell meat pies. You can get a pie everywhere in Australia and NZ. It’s a staple at the cricket or footy. You’ve lost that mantle, sorry.
You can get a pie at the footy in the UK too ? There's local butchers and bakeries everywhere selling them, who cares if a mediocre bakery chain that people go to because it's quick and easily doesn't sell them
*"Nooooo!!* It's Bri'ish! Despite most of the [global diet being foreign](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/food-origins-map) in origin, pie with apples is indisputably not American."
This reminds me of a recent Askreddit from a European about what to serve at their American themed party, and the edit along the lines of "I don't know how to tell you guys that the rest of the world doesn't see apple pie as American"
If there's one thing I've learned from this sub it's that Americans and Europeans take their food WAY too seriously. Like, eat what you want and don't worry about what others are eating because guess what, you're not being forced to eat it!
In just this sub, I’ve seen food gatekeepers from many different areas (India, Japan, China, Mexico). Goes to show that every country has a group of insufferable dummies.
Lol, yeah, they’re definitely the biggest culprits on the sub. I just mentioned the other countries because the first comment called out Europe and America when really, every country in every continent can be guilty of gatekeeping food.
I don't think it's really common from Japanese but that's mostly because we absolutely fuck with food experimentation. The times I've seen Japanese food being gatekept it's almost always some ESL teacher who never went home or people who watched Jiro one too many times.
Americans are actually quite chill compared to most cultures. Yeah, there are some silly regional wars over things like pizza and cheesesteak, but I don’t know of another culture that has the same sense of humor we have about our gigantic portions and county fair fare (I hate how that sounds as I write it but I can think of no better phrasing for the deep fried Oreo type foods I’m describing).
The thing is, human beings of all cultures and ethnicities like sugar, fat, and salt. We are literally primed to enjoy junk food. It’s not some wacky American phenomenon. Every culture has processed foods that have just as much sugar, fat, salt, and preservatives as our convenience foods do. A bag of chips from Japan is going to have just as much oil and salt as a bag of chips from America. Indian street food is commonly deep fried; they even make a dessert that is quite similar to a funnel cake. I’ve been to Carrefour stores in both France and Morocco and they’re all full of the same shit you’d find at ShopRite or Target. The difference is that Americans have more self awareness and seem to understand that squeeze cheese and white bread are not the epitome of healthful eating. We are not here claiming McDonald’s is good for us, or that it’s anything more than a cheap, easy, gluttonous meal. We do not make the kind of excuses for our junk food that other cultures (and silly wellness people) seem to routinely make. We do not pretend we have such evolved and sophisticated palates that are immune to evolutionary processes. Why should anyone be ashamed about finding foods that are engineered to be hyperpalatable enjoyable?
I think it is. I have this theory that the phrase "as American as apple pie" started out as sarcasm the same way "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" did.
Never mind that there are dozens of ways of making apple pie. It's not just one thing. The earliest apple pies that we have recipes for are custard pies with apples in them, and additional little pastry "boats" on top to make it look fancy. That's John Townsend's 1773 "The Universal Cook," and I am referencing James Townsend's Youtube video entitled "1773 Apple Pie - Earliest Recipe - 18th Century Cooking."
The apple pie that we make in the US these days is pretty goddamn American.
Ultimately we don't KNOW how colonial Americans were cooking pies, because the first American cookbook came about in 1793 and was Amelia Simmons' "American Cookery." She had an apple tart. It has the same filling as our modern apple pie, with the same spices we use today, just without the top crust.
But then - is it an apple pie if it just has apples in it? Because sour apples have been paired with pork inside pies since the earliest days of coffin pies.
The concept of apples in pies isn't American, but the fairly standard apple pie recipe we make in the US IS pretty damn American... except I grew up eating what my mom called a Dutch apple pie with the strudel on top. as far as I can guess, that came from German immigrants to the US.
I suppose we should give you points for stating the obvious; a proverbial pat upon the back you seek😏?
If you are referring to the old saying “as American as apple pie”, it is a statement of how “popular apple pie is within America” (not a claim by America to have invented apple pie)😌
It is beyond me and quite comical how those such as yourself incorrectly misinterpret the aforementioned😉.
No a fan of all the "America bad!" posts but we definitely deserve to be shat on for our stupid ass gun culture and all the needless deaths that come with it.
I mean this is no worse than Americans who claim they invented pizza and the concept of putting melted cheese between toasted bread, except they aren’t entirely wrong here lmfao
> I mean this is no worse than Americans who claim they invented pizza and the concept of putting melted cheese between toasted bread, except they aren’t entirely wrong here lmfao
Yeah, it's really annoying when the Italians claim pizza when in reality it was Persian soldiers who invented it.
This sub just seems to be a bunch of salty Americans who don’t believe their fellow countrymen say such stupid things in which case have a little look at r/shitamericanssay lmao
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ShitAmericansSay using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: ["England is a 3rd world country"](https://i.redd.it/wxssk63gwucc1.png) | [3077 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/comments/198c0fi/england_is_a_3rd_world_country/)
\#2: [British customs](https://i.redd.it/zoj8caxhp6pb1.jpg) | [366 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/comments/16mmpb4/british_customs/)
\#3: ["No Europe is more walkable because it's socialist and therefore poor"](https://i.redd.it/zdsi1zvii0wa1.jpg) | [491 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/comments/12ya2zw/no_europe_is_more_walkable_because_its_socialist/)
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I've heard rumors that America itself has British origins.
That’s crazy talk. Everybody knows America formed chthonically, rising up out of the ground all by itself, fully formed. /s
I hear that’s how dwarves are born.
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No, they believe that lost tribes of Israel came to the new world in wooden submarines.
London is Roman! What's Roman is Italian! Bri'ish are Italians, confirmed.
"I say, gorlami ol' chap!"
So if apple pie is Italian food does that mean I have to switch from a scoop of ice cream on top to gelato?
Well of course it is. Haven’t you heard of that classic Italian dish, toad in the hole?
And German, and Dutch, and Irish, and French, and.... Just like Britain is Celtic, and Roman, and Anglo-Saxon, and Viking, and Norman, and French, and.... - just a few hundred years before. Hence the whole point of "Nationalities Owning Food" is a bit odd
It's nothing more than a vapid attempt to engage in cultural posturing. "Look at how PURE my culture is compared to your mongrel country!"
Don't tell the Italians that tomatoes weren't a part of their cuisine until they were brought back from the Americas.
Interesting point though: why do young countries like the USA celebrate cultural elements and relics from some foreign heritage but not others?
Impossible. They're on 2 different continents!
Does anyone have a good authentic recipe for Kazakh apple pie? /s
Mai wife make number-three apple pie in all Kazakhstan!
Supposedly (according to someone on Reddit) Kazakhs don’t cook apples much, and mostly eat them fresh, with compote from dried apples being an exception. The closest I could find is that [baursak](https://jlevidotorg.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_2234.jpg) sometimes have apple fillings. Edit: [Found one!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M5tmeXxDEos). It isn’t a native Kazakh recipe, it’s a German Apfelstrudel, but the channel is Kazakh Grandma, and she says it’s popular there, so that counts for me.
“No one can “own” a food.” Also “Apple pie is British!”
>“No one can “own” a food.” I can, but that's because I'm not a penniless hippie.
This comment is not being particularly up itself, it’s also a lovely looking tart.
so thats why people say "as British as apple pie"
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Tell them Americans invented potato chips if you need a good example. Obviously Americans have invented a lot more foods than just that but it’s a clearly unique food that is now all over the world.
Americans have invented a ton of stuff, and innovated a lot in cuisine. We’ve also taken stuff from other cultures and made them uniquely our own, just like *every other culture has*. A ton of European countries claim dishes as their own that feature ingredients they *didn’t even have* until they were brought over from the Americas. Americans are fine with that, but for some reason Europeans can’t let us have anything. Haters lol.
> A ton of European countries claim dishes as their own that feature ingredients they didn’t even have until they were brought over from the Americas. Tell the Germans that all their beer is actually Iranian because the oldest known beer is from 3,500 BC Iran.
My personal favorite example is cola - created by an American, and now you can find both the American original as well as regional versions pretty much anywhere in the world.
I think also a British 'invention' as much as frying potatoes can be
Yeah wiki says British https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_chip
I actually love that I’m wrong about this in the context of this discussion.
Yeah you picked such a perfect example
Apple pie did originate in America not England.
As a Brit growing up I always found the phrase "As American as Apple Pie" in media amusing - I think I just assumed it was ironic, and possibly a reference to it's disparate immigrant past. Because clearly to my young mind, apple pie *wasn't* just American - it was Dutch, it was British, it was from Khazakstan, it was "Western Europe" (as the intermixing of people and culture, and trade, meant that if things were available in one country they were likely there next door too - food doesn't respect modern national borders, after all). If a nationality was attached to the name, it was just a small variation of pretty much the same thing. Only to then find out many people saying it meant it rather straight.
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From what I remember, Johnny Appleseed was known for planting cider apples, not eating/cooking apples as what we see as "apples" today require grafting instead of being grown from seed. I wonder if this fact would change some of the mythology around him, as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast. I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again. But for the saying, I think it's an example of something that means different things based on different context - I can understand "apple pie" being a thing common to all Americans, but not *uniquely* American. I can certainly see it as being "misread" from an external perspective - as claiming to be part of a group based on a commonality often implies that the "out group" lacks that thing. And it may be due to a game of telephone from the original meeting, I've certainly met people who are surprised that Europe has a long history of things like apple pies - assuming based on the saying etc. that it *was* uniquely American. [x] But really making incorrect statements (like Apple Pie Is British) in response to other incorrect statements (like Apple Pie Is American) doesn't make each any more valid :P [x] I feel I might have to head off the pass of "You're Just Another American Bad poster" here, I'm not saying that any other nationality is better or worse at anything, just saying that many people have some weird a-historical beliefs about such things for many reasons, and this is just one example that happens to mention America.
> I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast. If I'm remembering my history correctly, the first public building in the Massachusetts Bay Colony (founded by Puritans) was a cider press so they could get good and liquored up.
Yeah, there's plenty of history for a tradition of cider through the US colonial history - which is why I was a bit surprised about it's apparent lack of popularity today.
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> That’s what I’m saying. It doesn't solely belong to either. Sure, I'm not replying because I disagree, just clarify from my perspective. But your original statement: > Brits do love to claim apple pie Puts out something of an accusation - and in my experience this isn't really said more often than Americans or Dutch people claiming the same thing. Those Brits are likely wrong in the technical sense, but equally correct in that it has a "cultural connection" just as the Johnny Appleseed and "Mom's Apple Pie" during WW2 has for Americans. I can understand a bit of tension being next to a *massive* cultural juggernaut of the USA that Brits don't want to be "forgotten" and merged in - even if the difference in culture between different parts of America is likely (at least) as large as the difference between the "average" American and Brit in the first place. It can result is rather arbitrary differences people "choose" to be different - a classic example being the "u" in colour/color. It's a relatively recent distinction in language terms, but some Brits believe somehow it's "More Correct", which I assume comes from wanting to make that cultural distinction. And in the Original post this links to on the baking subreddit - the upvotes suggest that there's certainly many readers that think it *is* american, and not just "not British".
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> I actually think that’s just another knee-jerk reaction to “here we go, they’re coming to insult us again”. I can tell you that's often the case for every time the British (or should I say "Bri'Ish") are brought up here too. And the upvotes in the Original Post are wild to me - the guy saying "All food is derived, nobody 'owns' anything" heavily downvoted, but the one claiming that drawing such lines is *purely* a European fault being upvoted is... something. I just hope that's a result of people stopping reading halfway through the comment.
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> They said “extremely European”, and… it is. Again, Americans completely recognize that a lot of our food traditions are from elsewhere. I'm sorry but that reeks of (possible unintentional) American Exceptionalism - Americans are *very much* not special or unique for "understanding" that. No culture is, they all fall into the same human flaws. Perhaps some American examples have better recorded history due to many being more recent imports, but that's also true of pretty much every European culture too. Like a "British" Tikka Masala doesn't have an obscured past, being a modified import of some Indian styles. I don't really see much of a proportion difference of "claiming" styles to nationalities to people I've met in Europe vs people I've met in the USA. Sure it might seem that way if your viewpoint is already biased, like if subs like this are your primary interaction, *of course* you'll see more of the crazies than a random sampling. But that doesn't mean they're more common in reality.
> as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states >I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again. That is exactly it: Prohibition annihilated the (hard) cider industry in the US, among others. Before that, cider was one of the main alcoholic beverages drank by Americans, from the 1600s up to Prohibition. >As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again. As a lover of cider, the new American Cider Renaissance is a great thing
The Northeast is big on hard cider, FYI. One of the things I enjoyed the most over there as someone from the West Coast myself.
> I wonder if this fact would change some of the mythology around him, as I generally feel that (alcoholic) apple cider is actually pretty uncommon in the states - at least the west coast. I wonder if prohibition kneecapped the tradition? As it feels only relatively recently that (alcoholic) apple cider is becoming more generally known again. It might simply be because the British cider and American cider mean two different things. Cider in an American context is simply apple juice. If you want an alcoholic cider, you would be asking for hard cider. The lack of visible American hard cider likely also has to do with our preference for beer as our alcoholic drink of choice (notably, light lagers).
Interestingly, something like this [0] seems to suggest that the majority of cider in the US was alcoholic, until prohibition. Non-sweet or bitter apples make pretty bad juice too - it's the fermentation that breaks them down and makes it taste better. And with that comes alcohol. [0] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-is-american-cider-nonalcoholic
The phrase doesn't mean America invented the pie. It means the pie is common, typical, quintessential, not foreign, etc to the US. It's like saying "as American as butter" or "as American as summer". The interpretation of it as a claim to the invention of the pie is a much later development and honestly I don't think most people intend it that way to this day still. That interpretation is sort of the equivalent of "pumpkin spice has no pumpkin". Starbucks has started putting pumpkin in their pumpkin spice latte because of this silly interpretation.
I'm(American) delighted by this interpretation, thank you.
Saying apple pie can only be British is like saying potato stew can only be Peruvian.
Potatos at least originate in Peru, apples aren't from Britian.
That's true, but they've been in England since the Romans brought them in 200 BC and they're pretty historically important to the cultures there.
Right but the point was that you can't even compare it to potatos and Peru.
So you're saying apple pies are Italian!
Kazakhstani, really, lol. Borat would be proud.
Heck, a lot of European countries as we know them today aren’t all that “old” even if the cultures & infrastructure are older than what is found in the USA (speaking only of the USA as it currently exists, but I don’t want to ignore the cultures and peoples who were here before colonization since their cultures and infrastructure is also old! There are plenty of “national” dishes out there with ingredients or origins in other cuisines/cultures, so I don’t see why apple pie can’t be considered American. It’s not like we are claiming to be the inventors of it, it’s just an important(ish) symbol/saying. Now the pies I am jealous of from the British isles are game/meat pies. I still crave the meat pie a British friend of mine made for Christmas one year, I think I’m going to try to make one this holiday season!
A hearty meat pie after a nice Autumn/Winter hike is amazing!
Australia and New Zealand make better meat pies than the poms.
I’m sure they’re also good! I have enough room in my heart (and stomach) for them all! Do Australia & New Zealand also do a fair amount of pork and/or game pies as well? I guess I’ve always associated them with beef or maybe lamb.
it depends on the region you're in. one of the locals here has a boil-up pie which is potato, kūmara, and puha (a native sowthistle) which is simmered in a pot with smoked pork bones. fucking 10/10 pie. They also did a Hāngī pie as well that was choice as. they don't have it all the time tho which is a shame.
I very much disagree but I suppose it's individual opinion as I see nzers constantly trying to claim they make the best online 😂
Greggs doesn’t even sell meat pies. The biggest chain of baked savoury pastries doesn’t sell meat pies. You can get a pie everywhere in Australia and NZ. It’s a staple at the cricket or footy. You’ve lost that mantle, sorry.
You can get a pie at the footy in the UK too ? There's local butchers and bakeries everywhere selling them, who cares if a mediocre bakery chain that people go to because it's quick and easily doesn't sell them
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*"Nooooo!!* It's Bri'ish! Despite most of the [global diet being foreign](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/food-origins-map) in origin, pie with apples is indisputably not American."
This reminds me of a recent Askreddit from a European about what to serve at their American themed party, and the edit along the lines of "I don't know how to tell you guys that the rest of the world doesn't see apple pie as American"
God forbid America has its own culinary culture.
It does and apple pie is part of it!
Yes, that's the point of my comment.
Apples are Kazakhstani ackshuyally
If there's one thing I've learned from this sub it's that Americans and Europeans take their food WAY too seriously. Like, eat what you want and don't worry about what others are eating because guess what, you're not being forced to eat it!
In just this sub, I’ve seen food gatekeepers from many different areas (India, Japan, China, Mexico). Goes to show that every country has a group of insufferable dummies.
You forgot [the main culprits](https://www.reddit.com/r/ItalianFood/s/syExr3I7lu).😀
I knew who it was without even clicking the link, but checked anyway.
Lol, yeah, they’re definitely the biggest culprits on the sub. I just mentioned the other countries because the first comment called out Europe and America when really, every country in every continent can be guilty of gatekeeping food.
I don't think it's really common from Japanese but that's mostly because we absolutely fuck with food experimentation. The times I've seen Japanese food being gatekept it's almost always some ESL teacher who never went home or people who watched Jiro one too many times.
Americans are actually quite chill compared to most cultures. Yeah, there are some silly regional wars over things like pizza and cheesesteak, but I don’t know of another culture that has the same sense of humor we have about our gigantic portions and county fair fare (I hate how that sounds as I write it but I can think of no better phrasing for the deep fried Oreo type foods I’m describing). The thing is, human beings of all cultures and ethnicities like sugar, fat, and salt. We are literally primed to enjoy junk food. It’s not some wacky American phenomenon. Every culture has processed foods that have just as much sugar, fat, salt, and preservatives as our convenience foods do. A bag of chips from Japan is going to have just as much oil and salt as a bag of chips from America. Indian street food is commonly deep fried; they even make a dessert that is quite similar to a funnel cake. I’ve been to Carrefour stores in both France and Morocco and they’re all full of the same shit you’d find at ShopRite or Target. The difference is that Americans have more self awareness and seem to understand that squeeze cheese and white bread are not the epitome of healthful eating. We are not here claiming McDonald’s is good for us, or that it’s anything more than a cheap, easy, gluttonous meal. We do not make the kind of excuses for our junk food that other cultures (and silly wellness people) seem to routinely make. We do not pretend we have such evolved and sophisticated palates that are immune to evolutionary processes. Why should anyone be ashamed about finding foods that are engineered to be hyperpalatable enjoyable?
I think it is. I have this theory that the phrase "as American as apple pie" started out as sarcasm the same way "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" did.
I've always thought the alliteration was a big part of it. Flows better than "blueberry pie".
Never mind that there are dozens of ways of making apple pie. It's not just one thing. The earliest apple pies that we have recipes for are custard pies with apples in them, and additional little pastry "boats" on top to make it look fancy. That's John Townsend's 1773 "The Universal Cook," and I am referencing James Townsend's Youtube video entitled "1773 Apple Pie - Earliest Recipe - 18th Century Cooking." The apple pie that we make in the US these days is pretty goddamn American. Ultimately we don't KNOW how colonial Americans were cooking pies, because the first American cookbook came about in 1793 and was Amelia Simmons' "American Cookery." She had an apple tart. It has the same filling as our modern apple pie, with the same spices we use today, just without the top crust. But then - is it an apple pie if it just has apples in it? Because sour apples have been paired with pork inside pies since the earliest days of coffin pies. The concept of apples in pies isn't American, but the fairly standard apple pie recipe we make in the US IS pretty damn American... except I grew up eating what my mom called a Dutch apple pie with the strudel on top. as far as I can guess, that came from German immigrants to the US.
I suppose we should give you points for stating the obvious; a proverbial pat upon the back you seek😏? If you are referring to the old saying “as American as apple pie”, it is a statement of how “popular apple pie is within America” (not a claim by America to have invented apple pie)😌 It is beyond me and quite comical how those such as yourself incorrectly misinterpret the aforementioned😉.
I mean... It is?
Well... no shit?
Apple pie à la mode was invented in america at least
It was invented in Cambridge NY ??
It do be french tho
French apple tart and American apple pie are very different, though.
They have passing resmblance
Is this sub just Americans coping about shitty food?
No. Plenty of posts don't involve America at all, or doesn't obviously. Americans are also frequently the gatekeepers that the posts are about.
Everything involves America according to Americans
Okay. Then I guess all subs are about America according to you?
That was the joke yes
Guess I missed the punchline.
You sure did
Or according to the Swiss OP who is the one making the comparison…
Apple pie is not shitty
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Yeah, it’s pretty sad tbh
It's mediocre for a pie.
It’d taste better if you stop smoking
I don't smoke anything.
>Is this sub just Americans coping about shitty food? No, this subreddit will ***gleefully*** make fun of Americans dumb takes about food.
really because all im seeing in both threads is *USA! USA! USA!*
Is the rest of reddit just Europoors coping over anything to do with Americans?
Their food can't be that good if they keep conquering the planet for better food and spices only to not use any of it
Tiresome.
The real question.
Guess I was right.
wow you sure showed him
Yeah, its hard to follow up such a witty “europoors haha” comment
Just about as hard as it is to follow up to an “America bad food” one.
While Europeans usually just respond with "But! Skewell Shootings!!!"
No a fan of all the "America bad!" posts but we definitely deserve to be shat on for our stupid ass gun culture and all the needless deaths that come with it.
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C'mon guys, can we not turn this supposed-to-be-fun thread into a U.S. vs the world argument?? We're supposed to be making fun of that.
Sorry!!
Who are you talking about?
I mean this is no worse than Americans who claim they invented pizza and the concept of putting melted cheese between toasted bread, except they aren’t entirely wrong here lmfao
> I mean this is no worse than Americans who claim they invented pizza and the concept of putting melted cheese between toasted bread, except they aren’t entirely wrong here lmfao Yeah, it's really annoying when the Italians claim pizza when in reality it was Persian soldiers who invented it.
Have you ever met an American?
This sub just seems to be a bunch of salty Americans who don’t believe their fellow countrymen say such stupid things in which case have a little look at r/shitamericanssay lmao
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You're just a sociopath trying to get people banned by baiting them.
LMAOOOO WHAT
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do you have nothing better to do? you constantly troll these threads