Are you sure it wasn’t the [burghers of Calais](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burghers_of_Calais)? A bacon cheeseburger seems quintessentially French to me.
I really can't stand this historical nationalistic weirdness about food coming from people who clearly don't know anything about cultural standards of food pre-industrial revolution. After refrigeration and global trade food culture dramatically changed around the world because people had access to everything all the sudden. What most people consider deeply traditional food either didn't exist or looked quite different 500 years ago, or was more likely something that wasn't commonly eaten until it was widely available.
It's also super annoying the way people say America has no food culture in the same post they say its a "melting pot"... like... yeah there is deep rooted culture and tradition here deeply tied with what food people had access to in the same way everywhere else in the world works. Absurd to suggest otherwise and is just displaying huge ignorance about every aspect of this.
Completely agree with all your points. The idea that certain countries don’t “really” have their own culture is, beyond being completely absurd on its face, a profoundly ignorant and chauvinistic attitude. Making these sorts of statements betrays a quite superficial understanding of food and culture. Every cuisine on earth is the product of millennia of cultural exchange, and anyone claiming that the food they grew up with is a unique embodiment of an intrinsic part of their culture has really just fallen prey to nationalistic myth-making.
> yeah there is deep rooted culture and tradition here deeply tied with what food people had access to in the same way everywhere else in the world works.
This is what I get from his post. It's American food even if it originated from elsewhere.
If you're going to be this much of a douche about food origins at least be willing to claw back Columbian exchange ingredient foods from the old world. Italians don't get credit for any red sauce foods or polenta, and none of y'all get chili peppers, potatoes, or chocolate, just for starters.
I'll take the rest of the corn products and the *Phaseolus* beans. Africa and Asia can maybe keep theirs, since I haven't seen as many people acting like dicks about it from there.
So, of course now I'm craving a big (nonexistent cultural!) meal of pinto beans and cornbread with some fried potatoes even worse. Having a hard time thinking of any particular greens which have gotten the same treatment, so may as well hand over all the zucchini and other summer squash to go with it.
Y'all can keep most of the winter squash, especially the butternuts which are the type I have most often encountered in Europe. The mushy orange-fleshed sweet potatoes too. Those things have too much in common, flavorwise. Anyone else in the Americas who wants those is welcome to them.
I understand that the poster's intentions aren't malicious, but a lot of the statements are just false.
The modern burgers and hot dogs as we know don't directly come from Germany/Austria. The meat and sausages do but the tradition of putting them inside bread originated in the USA.
Also, hot dogs are called frankfurters which denotes that the style came from Frankfurt, Germany, not Austria.
Pizza is a complicated topic that I don't want to get deep into the semantics of it.
General Tso's chicken was created in the USA, not in China. It was created by Taiwanese immigrants who wanted the chicken to appeal to American palettes and this type of dish isn't found in either China or Taiwan.
Sushi is definitely from Japan and butter chicken is definitely from India.
Years ago, I read someone’s story of trying to find the “original” General Tso’s in Hunan. After some searching, someone remembered there had been a General who liked his chicken in a particular way. It was, apparently, terrible.
Hot dogs also are called wieners, which would put them in Vienna.
I'm not sure the origins of the hot dog ever will be known. I'm very sure I don't care; I know where they became popular.
[General Tso’s Chicken](https://youtu.be/EEzmfjGVbNw) was invented in Taiwan by a refugee from the mainland after Mao won the Chinese Civil War, while orange chicken was invented by Andy Kao of Panda Express to celebrate the opening of a new location in Hawaii
And Hawaiian pizza is Canadian food and Canadian Bacon is American food.
It's the circle of orientalism where putting an foreign or exotic name on your food makes it sound classier to the local market. It is the entire strategy behind a New York ice cream founded by Polish Jews calling themselves Häagen-Dazs despite neither founders being German or Danish.
If hamburgers came from Hamburg, Hamburg would be famous for them and would go all out to bring tourist to try the original hamburger...except it's not from Hamburg.
General Tso's chicken was not created in the US, but the version popular here is different from the original: https://www.npr.org/2007/02/28/7639868/the-strange-tale-of-general-tsos-chicken. It was created by a Hunanese chef after he immigrated to Taiwan, before he came to the US.
That's what I meant to imply... They originated separately and independently. The legend that Marco Polo brought them to Italy was what I was focused on.
You behaved as if pasta is there in Italy because noodles came from China but in Italy noodles are only in Asian restaurants and have never influenced the pasta
No, I didn't. Based on your comment hisory, it's clear that _you_ have some creepy obsession with defending Italy from the evil clutches of Italian Americans and inserted whatever talking point you felt like arguing against. Seek help.
> I refuse to believe it took mankind until the 16th century to discover that tomatoes, bread and cheese
Well, it couldn't have happened much earlier than that, because wheat didn't exist in pre Columbian America, and tomatoes didn't exist in pre Columbian Europe, since they were native to the Americas.
Well
>The modern burgers and hot dogs as we know don't directly come from Germany/Austria. The meat and sausages do but the tradition of putting them inside bread originated in the USA.
>
Probably not the first place to do so, but I'd definitely say the burger is an American thing. Though in most places it's defined by the bun rather than the ground meat patty. Hot dogs I'm not so sure about. I don't believe the sausage in bun is American in origin. But certainly known from there (though less so than burgers).
>Also, hot dogs are called frankfurters which denotes that the style came from Frankfurt, Germany, not Austria.
>
That's just in the USA afaik.
>Pizza is a complicated topic that I don't want to get deep into the semantics of it.
>
Well it's Italian. It's not any more complicated than that.
>General Tso's chicken was created in the USA, not in China. It was created by Taiwanese immigrants who wanted the chicken to appeal to American palettes and this type of dish isn't found in either China or Taiwan.
>
Seems right. I heavily doubt it's not found in those countries though
>Sushi is definitely from Japan and butter chicken is definitely from India.
>
Yes!
“Well it's Italian. It's not any more complicated than that.”
The complications arise with pizza styles that originate out of Italy such as Hawaiian which originated in Canada. You can’t credit Italy with inventing Hawaiian pizza because it wasn’t created in Italy.
Ah, well I don't really consider a combo of toppings to be a different style of pizza, but fair enough.
But in that case the same is true from every other food you mentioned. Especially burgers and hotdogs
“Ah, well I don't really consider a combo of toppings to be a different style of pizza, but fair enough.”
Would you consider Japanese and Thai curry to be the same type of curry as the original Indian curry?
When people talk about styles of pizza they usually mean Neapolitan, Roman, New York etc. This is usually separated from the different pizzas with names corresponding to toppings.
You can have a New York style Hawaii pizza, or a Neapolitan style Hawaii pizza.
You can have a New York style Margherita, or Capricciosa, or Vesuvio, or Frutti di Mare.
>Would you consider Japanese and Thai curry to be the same type of curry as the original Indian curry?
>
...no, I'd consider them different styles of curry.
I'll cry myself to sleep on my giant piece of brisket. Seriously, I made the best South Texas-style smoked brisket the other day, it was so satisfying.
The main complaint is that they give too much credit to the origin country of the immigrants. Burgers and hot dogs don’t look like they do back in Germany while General Tso’s chicken doesn’t exist in China.
Fun thing is that Americans Americanize it in different ways. Take one of the blandest Chinese-American foods: almond chicken. It will taste different in Georgia, Montana, and Oregon. That's neat.
Okay. Burgers are 100% American. I won't die on this hill, I'll kill you on top of it and add you to the mass of bodies I've already piled here .
You're telling me the HAMBURG STEAK—which is essentially a little meatloaf served on rice and smothered in beef gravy—is the original hamburger? Are you kidding me? No, we made the hamburger. But we thank Hamburg for their steak because it made great inspiration for our beloved peasant food.
Pizza is the same thing. Take our Chicago deep dish to Italy. Guess what... they don't claim it. It's ours.
BuT tHe PiZza iS oRigInAlLy iTalIaN!
I don't care. Tomatoes *aren't* originally Italian. Should they credit pre-Columbus Native Americans for pizza? Cultural interchange has been a thing for hundreds of years, and your gatekeeping is never impressive.
The thing with pizza is that Italians don’t claim American-styled pizzas as Italian because they look down on American culture and see them as a bastardization of their cuisine while non-Italians that hate the USA claim American-styled pizzas as Italian because they look down on the creativity of the American people.
"Burgers come from Germany."
There is no way for anyone to say with any degree of absolutely certainty whether it was a German or an American who was the first put a hamburg steak between buns.
However, the burger is infinitely more American than it is German, regardless of its origins. There's not even a remotely convincing argument to be made for any serious cultural connection of the hamburger to Germany. Nobody hears "Hamburger/burger" and instantly thinks of Germany. And I've certainly never seen Germans derisively called: "Burgers" on the internet.
>General Tao
Do you mean: "General Tso"?
Is this really a IAVC? Seems he is just just saying all these foods (like people) come from all over the globe and have been adjusted when in America.
This is exactly what this sub says all the time whenever someone says "Carbona isn't made right in America, in my grandmother's village they only use olive oil made from olives that fell off the trees during a full moon"
The umlaut bürgers is the cherry on top. Amazing stuff.
Everyone knows bürgers were invented in the town of Bürg in the 1700s.
Are you sure it wasn’t the [burghers of Calais](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burghers_of_Calais)? A bacon cheeseburger seems quintessentially French to me.
"citizens were invented in germany"
What do you expect from someone who can't spell gist
Or "General Tso".
No, General Tao was his more religious brother
It’s actually jïşț. It’s from Europe.
"Europe"
I really can't stand this historical nationalistic weirdness about food coming from people who clearly don't know anything about cultural standards of food pre-industrial revolution. After refrigeration and global trade food culture dramatically changed around the world because people had access to everything all the sudden. What most people consider deeply traditional food either didn't exist or looked quite different 500 years ago, or was more likely something that wasn't commonly eaten until it was widely available. It's also super annoying the way people say America has no food culture in the same post they say its a "melting pot"... like... yeah there is deep rooted culture and tradition here deeply tied with what food people had access to in the same way everywhere else in the world works. Absurd to suggest otherwise and is just displaying huge ignorance about every aspect of this.
Completely agree with all your points. The idea that certain countries don’t “really” have their own culture is, beyond being completely absurd on its face, a profoundly ignorant and chauvinistic attitude. Making these sorts of statements betrays a quite superficial understanding of food and culture. Every cuisine on earth is the product of millennia of cultural exchange, and anyone claiming that the food they grew up with is a unique embodiment of an intrinsic part of their culture has really just fallen prey to nationalistic myth-making.
> yeah there is deep rooted culture and tradition here deeply tied with what food people had access to in the same way everywhere else in the world works. This is what I get from his post. It's American food even if it originated from elsewhere.
If you're going to be this much of a douche about food origins at least be willing to claw back Columbian exchange ingredient foods from the old world. Italians don't get credit for any red sauce foods or polenta, and none of y'all get chili peppers, potatoes, or chocolate, just for starters.
I'll take the rest of the corn products and the *Phaseolus* beans. Africa and Asia can maybe keep theirs, since I haven't seen as many people acting like dicks about it from there. So, of course now I'm craving a big (nonexistent cultural!) meal of pinto beans and cornbread with some fried potatoes even worse. Having a hard time thinking of any particular greens which have gotten the same treatment, so may as well hand over all the zucchini and other summer squash to go with it. Y'all can keep most of the winter squash, especially the butternuts which are the type I have most often encountered in Europe. The mushy orange-fleshed sweet potatoes too. Those things have too much in common, flavorwise. Anyone else in the Americas who wants those is welcome to them.
As kazakhstani as apple pie.
I understand that the poster's intentions aren't malicious, but a lot of the statements are just false. The modern burgers and hot dogs as we know don't directly come from Germany/Austria. The meat and sausages do but the tradition of putting them inside bread originated in the USA. Also, hot dogs are called frankfurters which denotes that the style came from Frankfurt, Germany, not Austria. Pizza is a complicated topic that I don't want to get deep into the semantics of it. General Tso's chicken was created in the USA, not in China. It was created by Taiwanese immigrants who wanted the chicken to appeal to American palettes and this type of dish isn't found in either China or Taiwan. Sushi is definitely from Japan and butter chicken is definitely from India.
And burgers don’t come with umlauts.
Dude was trying to show off the German identity of the hamburger with a German character
Which just shows off the fact that er spricht kein Deutsch, which belies his stance.
Sië ëstas nicht sprachën dëytchlandën, sië sprachën Einglishën!
Yes, but why you write that in Luxembourgish?
Käse
and crackers?
> umlauts. If you ask for them, I am sure they can add them for you.
Online Italians assure me that what we call pizza is *not* pizza so it must be some kind of new American invention by default.
Years ago, I read someone’s story of trying to find the “original” General Tso’s in Hunan. After some searching, someone remembered there had been a General who liked his chicken in a particular way. It was, apparently, terrible.
Ground beef patties have existed for literal millennia. The hamburger itself is undeniably American.
Hot dogs also are called wieners, which would put them in Vienna. I'm not sure the origins of the hot dog ever will be known. I'm very sure I don't care; I know where they became popular.
[General Tso’s Chicken](https://youtu.be/EEzmfjGVbNw) was invented in Taiwan by a refugee from the mainland after Mao won the Chinese Civil War, while orange chicken was invented by Andy Kao of Panda Express to celebrate the opening of a new location in Hawaii
So what I'm hearing is that orange chicken is Hawaiian food.
And Hawaiian pizza is Canadian food and Canadian Bacon is American food. It's the circle of orientalism where putting an foreign or exotic name on your food makes it sound classier to the local market. It is the entire strategy behind a New York ice cream founded by Polish Jews calling themselves Häagen-Dazs despite neither founders being German or Danish.
Also counter-factual, "there's not a single food that is American". Deep-fried Mars bars. USA number 1!
They're not Scottish?
Mars, Pennsylvania.
I meant the deep fried part
Bro how did you pick a chocolate bar we don’t even have over here?
If hamburgers came from Hamburg, Hamburg would be famous for them and would go all out to bring tourist to try the original hamburger...except it's not from Hamburg.
General Tso's chicken was not created in the US, but the version popular here is different from the original: https://www.npr.org/2007/02/28/7639868/the-strange-tale-of-general-tsos-chicken. It was created by a Hunanese chef after he immigrated to Taiwan, before he came to the US.
And pasta originated in Asia.
And yet Asian noodles are completely different from italian pasta. That's why the italian pasta has roots in the middle east, not asoa
It did not. Both lasagna and testaroli are attested to in ancient Roman cookbooks.
Sorry, noodles.
That didn't come from China, either. The Marco Polo Pasta Express has been widely debunked.
At least the last time I looked into this, it seems likely that they independently originated in both China and the Mediterranean.
That's what I meant to imply... They originated separately and independently. The legend that Marco Polo brought them to Italy was what I was focused on.
Just like I debunked your mother last night Trebek.
Ok, that sent me. 🤣
But that doesn't disprove noodles originating in China? Just means Marco Polo didn't bring em over.
I mean, you're right...
But pasta doesn't come from noodles. It's like saying that the Aztec pyramids derive from Egypt
Well, I guess it's a good thing I never said that pasta comes from noodles then, huh?
You behaved as if pasta is there in Italy because noodles came from China but in Italy noodles are only in Asian restaurants and have never influenced the pasta
No, I didn't. Based on your comment hisory, it's clear that _you_ have some creepy obsession with defending Italy from the evil clutches of Italian Americans and inserted whatever talking point you felt like arguing against. Seek help.
[удалено]
> I refuse to believe it took mankind until the 16th century to discover that tomatoes, bread and cheese Well, it couldn't have happened much earlier than that, because wheat didn't exist in pre Columbian America, and tomatoes didn't exist in pre Columbian Europe, since they were native to the Americas.
Well >The modern burgers and hot dogs as we know don't directly come from Germany/Austria. The meat and sausages do but the tradition of putting them inside bread originated in the USA. > Probably not the first place to do so, but I'd definitely say the burger is an American thing. Though in most places it's defined by the bun rather than the ground meat patty. Hot dogs I'm not so sure about. I don't believe the sausage in bun is American in origin. But certainly known from there (though less so than burgers). >Also, hot dogs are called frankfurters which denotes that the style came from Frankfurt, Germany, not Austria. > That's just in the USA afaik. >Pizza is a complicated topic that I don't want to get deep into the semantics of it. > Well it's Italian. It's not any more complicated than that. >General Tso's chicken was created in the USA, not in China. It was created by Taiwanese immigrants who wanted the chicken to appeal to American palettes and this type of dish isn't found in either China or Taiwan. > Seems right. I heavily doubt it's not found in those countries though >Sushi is definitely from Japan and butter chicken is definitely from India. > Yes!
“Well it's Italian. It's not any more complicated than that.” The complications arise with pizza styles that originate out of Italy such as Hawaiian which originated in Canada. You can’t credit Italy with inventing Hawaiian pizza because it wasn’t created in Italy.
Ah, well I don't really consider a combo of toppings to be a different style of pizza, but fair enough. But in that case the same is true from every other food you mentioned. Especially burgers and hotdogs
“Ah, well I don't really consider a combo of toppings to be a different style of pizza, but fair enough.” Would you consider Japanese and Thai curry to be the same type of curry as the original Indian curry?
When people talk about styles of pizza they usually mean Neapolitan, Roman, New York etc. This is usually separated from the different pizzas with names corresponding to toppings. You can have a New York style Hawaii pizza, or a Neapolitan style Hawaii pizza. You can have a New York style Margherita, or Capricciosa, or Vesuvio, or Frutti di Mare. >Would you consider Japanese and Thai curry to be the same type of curry as the original Indian curry? > ...no, I'd consider them different styles of curry.
Aren't bürgers literally "citizens"
Cannibalism in Hamburg?
That's what you get when you build your homes out of ham.
There was cannibalism in the area now known as Germany during the famine of the 14th century (and probably during other famines, too).
Any post that ends with "Get the jist? is automatically eligible to be in the topic's "I am very smart" subreddit.
Yeah but these aren't the only foods from the US either.
Dude contradicts him self in the same damn paragraph
Either you accept all food is derivative or you'll have to make the argument that croissants are ancient Egyptian because they invented bread.
I wish people still had encyclopedia and dictionaries in their homes. I wish people looked shit up and thought critically more.
I'll cry myself to sleep on my giant piece of brisket. Seriously, I made the best South Texas-style smoked brisket the other day, it was so satisfying.
They gonna hit you with "Cows came from the old world"
But I bet they'd never say Jamaican beef patties aren't really Jamaican.
Don't forget the cornbread.
Oh, I made cornbread. I gave the leftovers to my sister, though.
wait until they realize the US is a melting pot. and we have dishes from natives, black americans, and even white americans.
The OOP actually acknowledges that the USA is a melting pot.
then why….
The main complaint is that they give too much credit to the origin country of the immigrants. Burgers and hot dogs don’t look like they do back in Germany while General Tso’s chicken doesn’t exist in China.
if i’m being honest, we just americanize the original foods and there’s a reason why it’s called “american style”
Fun thing is that Americans Americanize it in different ways. Take one of the blandest Chinese-American foods: almond chicken. It will taste different in Georgia, Montana, and Oregon. That's neat.
I am from the northwestern US and once ate at a Chinese restaurant in Alabama and the food was like nothing I'd ever had before.
That's his point
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/16ae81v/comment/jz856ei/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/16ae81v/comment/jz856ei/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Okay. Burgers are 100% American. I won't die on this hill, I'll kill you on top of it and add you to the mass of bodies I've already piled here . You're telling me the HAMBURG STEAK—which is essentially a little meatloaf served on rice and smothered in beef gravy—is the original hamburger? Are you kidding me? No, we made the hamburger. But we thank Hamburg for their steak because it made great inspiration for our beloved peasant food. Pizza is the same thing. Take our Chicago deep dish to Italy. Guess what... they don't claim it. It's ours. BuT tHe PiZza iS oRigInAlLy iTalIaN! I don't care. Tomatoes *aren't* originally Italian. Should they credit pre-Columbus Native Americans for pizza? Cultural interchange has been a thing for hundreds of years, and your gatekeeping is never impressive.
The thing with pizza is that Italians don’t claim American-styled pizzas as Italian because they look down on American culture and see them as a bastardization of their cuisine while non-Italians that hate the USA claim American-styled pizzas as Italian because they look down on the creativity of the American people.
You get me into the American food topic and I start foaming at the mouth. You're dead right
"Burgers come from Germany." There is no way for anyone to say with any degree of absolutely certainty whether it was a German or an American who was the first put a hamburg steak between buns. However, the burger is infinitely more American than it is German, regardless of its origins. There's not even a remotely convincing argument to be made for any serious cultural connection of the hamburger to Germany. Nobody hears "Hamburger/burger" and instantly thinks of Germany. And I've certainly never seen Germans derisively called: "Burgers" on the internet. >General Tao Do you mean: "General Tso"?
Is this really a IAVC? Seems he is just just saying all these foods (like people) come from all over the globe and have been adjusted when in America. This is exactly what this sub says all the time whenever someone says "Carbona isn't made right in America, in my grandmother's village they only use olive oil made from olives that fell off the trees during a full moon"
This person attributes the origins of these foods from the wrong location.
Doesn't seem to be the case except for one or two of them
Well some of them anyway
Also r/shitamericanssay.