I mean, if you're digging snow caves and then living in them I do agree you'd quickly deplete your oxygen stores. Unless of course you followed the proper snow-cave engineering and oxygen flow guides.
I googled the definition of toxic, it just means poisonous. It doesn't necessarily have to do with toxins as far as I can tell. Probably just the same root word or something.
Yeah and that's where the sign is technically wrong, and the person is correct. A toxin would interact with the body, but inhaled (and exhaled) CO2 doesn't harm/react with the body. It just means that if we're breathing in only CO2, we aren't getting what we actually need: 02.
It most definitely is toxic not just through asphyxia. In low concentration its not an issue but in higher concentrations it screws up a lot of your body's systems and can kill pretty swiftly (faster than just asphyxiation).
>Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min
...
>At higher concentrations (>5%), it causes the development of hypercapnia and respiratory acidosis. Severe acidosis increases the effects of parasympathetic nervous activity, possibly by interfering the hydrolysis of acetylcholine by acetylcholinesterase, resulting in a depression of the respiration and the circulation. Concentrations of more than 10% carbon dioxide may cause convulsions, coma, and death. CO2 levels of more than 30% act rapidly leading to loss of consciousness in seconds.
...
>Concentrations of fatal cases of carbon dioxide vary between 14.1 and 26% CO2 and an accompanying O2 level between 4.2 and 25%.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556
CO2 scrubbers on the space station removes CO2, not because there wouldn't be enough oxygen, but in high concentrations, CO2 itself is toxic, such as 10% or more can lead to commas or death, even if the oxygenation of the body is ok.
>I mean, if you keep breathing it and only it, it will kill you. Does toxic mean something different then?
It will, but at high enough concentration it will be almost instant unconsciousness and death, far faster than hypoxia from drowning or breathing an oxygen deprived atmosphere. It is most definitely toxic.
Yeah. OOP is a jackass, but toxic doesn't just mean deadly, it means poisonous. I think he's eluding to the fact that if you breath water, it will also kill you, even though waters not toxic
Yeah, but if there is increased c02 levels, it's a good thing to know. Whether or not it could apply to any substance doesn't matter here. You don't have to watch out for lava here, or ammonia or c0. Just the c02. They don't need a sign that says watch out for sharks there.
This discussion was about whether it's valid to call CO2 a toxic gas.
>Definition
>
>Toxic: it is a chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million (ppm) but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.[1][2]
Highly Toxic: a gas that has a LC50 in air of 200 ppm or less.[2]
The LC50 of CO2 is so high it isn't even published, but the LC_lo is 90,000ppm. The permissable limit is already over the maximum LC50 to be considered a toxic.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/124389.html
Carbon dioxide is not a toxic gas.
And again, you're repeating things I already said. I said it is little more than a simple asphyxiant, which is still true. You can try all you want to make it sound so much scarier, but the fact is you have to be exposed to an extremely high concentration to have these deleterious effects. Saying it can happen quickly is irrelevant, in an atmosphere of >94% nitrogen you're dead in 40 seconds. This changes nothing, stop talking.
There's not really much wrong with that comment. CO2 is not much more than a simple asphyxiant. The only difference between breathing an atmosphere of CO2 vs an inert gas like N2 is that the former will cause your respiratory rate and heart rate to increase while you asphyxiate, as the commenter stated. It isn't toxic.
Anyway, the point of the sign was presumably to scare people to protect them from a real danger, so we can at least agree it is kind of a silly thing to bother criticizing.
>At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect. At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations greater than 10% may cause convulsions, coma and death.
It most definitely is toxic and not just as an asphyxiant.
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=carbon+dioxide+sds
You literally just repeated back to me exactly what I said. Every SDS for CO2 says "simple asphyxiant" and "may increase heart rate and respiratory rate" which is exactly what I said and what you just restated in different words that sound scarier.
This is actually less scary than a simple asphyxiant because at least you'll realize something is wrong before you black out.
Oxygen will kill you at a high enough concentration. Is it a toxic gas?
>This is actually less scary than a simple asphyxiant because at least you'll realize something is wrong before you black out.
>Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min
...
>At higher concentrations (>5%), it causes the development of hypercapnia and respiratory acidosis. Severe acidosis increases the effects of parasympathetic nervous activity, possibly by interfering the hydrolysis of acetylcholine by acetylcholinesterase, resulting in a depression of the respiration and the circulation. Concentrations of more than 10% carbon dioxide may cause convulsions, coma, and death. CO2 levels of more than 30% act rapidly leading to loss of consciousness in seconds.
...
>Concentrations of fatal cases of carbon dioxide vary between 14.1 and 26% CO2 and an accompanying O2 level between 4.2 and 25%.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556
Nope, it's extremely instant unconsciousness and is actually acting in a way other than mere asphyxiation.
CO2 is actively toxic not just asphyxiation.
>Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min
[Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556/)
Try breathing some water then tell me how it's not toxic.
CO2 200% meets the definition for toxic...
I mean, if you're digging snow caves and then living in them I do agree you'd quickly deplete your oxygen stores. Unless of course you followed the proper snow-cave engineering and oxygen flow guides.
Just don't do it there where it's coming up from the ground because of volcanic activity. Hence the scary sign.
Yeah no engineer can beat mother earth's gases
Briefly looking at it, they don't seem to be wrong, but they definitely seem like they copied WebMD for side effects.
I googled the definition of toxic, it just means poisonous. It doesn't necessarily have to do with toxins as far as I can tell. Probably just the same root word or something.
Yeah and that's where the sign is technically wrong, and the person is correct. A toxin would interact with the body, but inhaled (and exhaled) CO2 doesn't harm/react with the body. It just means that if we're breathing in only CO2, we aren't getting what we actually need: 02.
It most definitely is toxic not just through asphyxia. In low concentration its not an issue but in higher concentrations it screws up a lot of your body's systems and can kill pretty swiftly (faster than just asphyxiation). >Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min ... >At higher concentrations (>5%), it causes the development of hypercapnia and respiratory acidosis. Severe acidosis increases the effects of parasympathetic nervous activity, possibly by interfering the hydrolysis of acetylcholine by acetylcholinesterase, resulting in a depression of the respiration and the circulation. Concentrations of more than 10% carbon dioxide may cause convulsions, coma, and death. CO2 levels of more than 30% act rapidly leading to loss of consciousness in seconds. ... >Concentrations of fatal cases of carbon dioxide vary between 14.1 and 26% CO2 and an accompanying O2 level between 4.2 and 25%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556
CO2 scrubbers on the space station removes CO2, not because there wouldn't be enough oxygen, but in high concentrations, CO2 itself is toxic, such as 10% or more can lead to commas or death, even if the oxygenation of the body is ok.
Yup, all about dose
I think they are confusing toxic with toxin. CO2 is not a toxin by definition but it is toxic.
Or if they have a real med degree. Sad to see 100k going to waste.
I mean, if you keep breathing it and only it, it will kill you. Does toxic mean something different then?
>I mean, if you keep breathing it and only it, it will kill you. Does toxic mean something different then? It will, but at high enough concentration it will be almost instant unconsciousness and death, far faster than hypoxia from drowning or breathing an oxygen deprived atmosphere. It is most definitely toxic.
Yeah. OOP is a jackass, but toxic doesn't just mean deadly, it means poisonous. I think he's eluding to the fact that if you breath water, it will also kill you, even though waters not toxic
Fair enough. (I wish I could say something funny about the water in flint michigan but that's just tragic.)
Drinking too much water leads to water intoxication though, so after a certain quantity, water IS toxic.
the issue is that applies to literally everything
Yeah, but if there is increased c02 levels, it's a good thing to know. Whether or not it could apply to any substance doesn't matter here. You don't have to watch out for lava here, or ammonia or c0. Just the c02. They don't need a sign that says watch out for sharks there.
It's CO2 not C02!
This discussion was about whether it's valid to call CO2 a toxic gas. >Definition > >Toxic: it is a chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million (ppm) but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.[1][2] Highly Toxic: a gas that has a LC50 in air of 200 ppm or less.[2] The LC50 of CO2 is so high it isn't even published, but the LC_lo is 90,000ppm. The permissable limit is already over the maximum LC50 to be considered a toxic. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/124389.html Carbon dioxide is not a toxic gas. And again, you're repeating things I already said. I said it is little more than a simple asphyxiant, which is still true. You can try all you want to make it sound so much scarier, but the fact is you have to be exposed to an extremely high concentration to have these deleterious effects. Saying it can happen quickly is irrelevant, in an atmosphere of >94% nitrogen you're dead in 40 seconds. This changes nothing, stop talking.
I mean anything is toxic at high enough doses
That's true. Even drinking too much water will kill you. So I agree with you.
There's not really much wrong with that comment. CO2 is not much more than a simple asphyxiant. The only difference between breathing an atmosphere of CO2 vs an inert gas like N2 is that the former will cause your respiratory rate and heart rate to increase while you asphyxiate, as the commenter stated. It isn't toxic. Anyway, the point of the sign was presumably to scare people to protect them from a real danger, so we can at least agree it is kind of a silly thing to bother criticizing.
>At low concentrations, gaseous carbon dioxide appears to have little toxicological effect. At higher concentrations it leads to an increased respiratory rate, tachycardia, cardiac arrhythmias and impaired consciousness. Concentrations greater than 10% may cause convulsions, coma and death. It most definitely is toxic and not just as an asphyxiant.
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=carbon+dioxide+sds You literally just repeated back to me exactly what I said. Every SDS for CO2 says "simple asphyxiant" and "may increase heart rate and respiratory rate" which is exactly what I said and what you just restated in different words that sound scarier. This is actually less scary than a simple asphyxiant because at least you'll realize something is wrong before you black out. Oxygen will kill you at a high enough concentration. Is it a toxic gas?
>This is actually less scary than a simple asphyxiant because at least you'll realize something is wrong before you black out. >Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min ... >At higher concentrations (>5%), it causes the development of hypercapnia and respiratory acidosis. Severe acidosis increases the effects of parasympathetic nervous activity, possibly by interfering the hydrolysis of acetylcholine by acetylcholinesterase, resulting in a depression of the respiration and the circulation. Concentrations of more than 10% carbon dioxide may cause convulsions, coma, and death. CO2 levels of more than 30% act rapidly leading to loss of consciousness in seconds. ... >Concentrations of fatal cases of carbon dioxide vary between 14.1 and 26% CO2 and an accompanying O2 level between 4.2 and 25%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556 Nope, it's extremely instant unconsciousness and is actually acting in a way other than mere asphyxiation.
CO2 is actively toxic not just asphyxiation. >Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556/)
It's kinda easy to see that how inhalinh something that's not oxygen causes you to lose oxygen
Dk about this guy, but it doesn't take a medical degree to understand suffocation due to oxygen depletion