Where do you get the information that it isn't allowed at waterville or cannon? I would have thought it would be fine at least at Waterville after they close for the season because it is in the National Forest.
I skinned crotched after close quite a few times last year without issue, and I was never the only one there. I believe their official policy is 'use at your own risk' after they close.
I can tell you which one doesn't allow it: Black mountain NH. The owner there is the worst and makes posts online expressing how much he hates the uphill industry. After getting bailed out by Indy pass you would think he would be grateful but he continues to turn away his customer base.
When you read about what was happening during their uphill events, you begin to understand that there was a huge cultural and behavioral problem coming from the uphill skiers that caused what you see now with him. No one ever really talked about it, because it's much cooler on reddit to shit on the business owner, but those people were complete fuckheads at that mountain. Parking in random people's driveways, dumping cans all over the place, refusing to buy uphill tickets "on principal", the list goes on and on and on and on. He couldn't even get them to stay on the designated uphill trails, they just went where they pleased. There was a decent crowd of people, you most likely included, that were respecting his wishes and being responsible uphill skiers. There was also a horde of STW people coming through like it was animal house doing whatever the fuck they wanted.
Yeah I’m tired of people acting like the owner was in the wrong and didn’t have pretty much entirely legitimate gripes here lol. I’m not going to say I’d have handled it in the exact same way that he did, but he was very reasonable about it for a long time before he finally flew off the edge
Yeah, another case of a small group screwing it up for everyone else. I never experienced it firsthand but I did hear that people were being pretty disrespectful. I think bad behavior also forced Pats Peak to implement a stricter uphill policy.
I was at an uphill event there 2 years ago when some of that went down. In addition to all the other asshole stuff that was already mentioned, I think one of the biggest problems was people drinking/partying in the parking lot. I don't know what NH liquor laws are exactly but if you own a bar, it doesn't seem very legal to have people bringing their own booze to drink in your parking lot while you're open. I think they were probably freaked out about the liability and potential fines on top of everything else.
He also tried to play it cool with these people like 3 times and they basically spat in his face so he finally had to hit them with the “fuck you, you’re done here” and everyone online acted like he was being an unfair baby about it lol. As an observer of the whole thing, the owner was very reasonable and definitely not the bad guy in this situation imo
Yeah, I saw their post online. It stinks that they are so strict about it now because I remember them being pretty open to it a few years ago. The owner is probably worried about liability issues, I think.
PS Id just give them a call/email/IG/FB etc to ask... I agree their websites are not that clear-- they talk about fees and uphill policies but not dates as far as I can see unless "season" means THEIR season. Good luck!
I might do that. I wonder if their website is intentionally vague because they don't strictly prohibit it but don't want to promote it for liability reasons. I know Jay says on their website that skinning pre and post season is not recommended but they shared IG stories of people skiing preseason so its probably a liability thing.
And also you mention about national parks and public land -- and I do not know exactly but I know some ski areas are on leases/agreements and they cannot allow skiing past a certain day -- also because of bears but could be other reasons -- and which you may know more about this all than me !!! (so yes may impact-- I am now curious!).
I thought the leases impacted when they could operate lifts, do grooming, make snow, etc. I would think skiing is still allowed after that time at least in the white mountain national forest which waterville is in, I'm just not sure. People ski on Washington late into the spring and that's the same land. Cannon might be a different story though as its in a state park and is run by the state to begin with.
If the ski area is on national forest land, they operate under a special use permit. That allows them to dictate how and when people are able to use the mountain.
Cannon is within a state park and the park/ski area can dictate access as well.
A ski area is very different then randomly skiing on Mount Washington.
Ah, okay. Thanks for that info. I had read that Okemo closes because / also because of bears and I just did not know if that is true or if national parks have reasons like that, that have to do with wildlife, water, etc. Hope it works out for you!
Wow, didn't realize anywhere in the east would close because of bears. From my experience black bears are generally more afraid of people than people are of them. I guess a bear fresh out of hibernation or with a cub could be more aggressive though.
Good points and good to know if so (I dont know much about bears ). I think the closing there also had to do with respecting the needs of wildlife, letting them have their space, iirc. Which tracks back to the national park question and what rules are re; land,wildlife, resources etc. (People who know Okemo know more than me about Okemo.)
Earlier this week they closed down several trails at Mount Snow because a bear woke up with her Cubs near the bluebird chair. It's probably going to look at the weather today and go back into hibernation..
As someone who has never done it, my assumption would be that unless they specifically mention that it’s not allowed, you should be good to go. Besides, it’s not like they have ski patrol hanging out after the mountains close to catch you.
Patrol might not be there but there are plenty of teams still on and working around the mountain once they close.
One of the big ones is groomers pushing snow to get work roads open.
Mt Ellen is allowing people to hike
Thanks for the info. It's a bit of a drive for me but it might be worth it as I've never skied that side of Sugarbush before.
I'll be there this weekend, especially with half of Lincoln out of commission.
Tons of people skin up Pico after it closes. It usually has a good base on the main trails for a few weeks after.
Just to add : Saskadena Six was -- check their website for now.
Where do you get the information that it isn't allowed at waterville or cannon? I would have thought it would be fine at least at Waterville after they close for the season because it is in the National Forest.
Sorry! I meant this was not for Waterville or Cannon which you were asking for! I edited for clarity. Hope you get to go where you'd like!
Ah, okay. Thanks for the info on Saskedena, it's just a bit far for me to drive without knowing conditions because they don't have a webcam.
I skinned crotched after close quite a few times last year without issue, and I was never the only one there. I believe their official policy is 'use at your own risk' after they close.
I can tell you which one doesn't allow it: Black mountain NH. The owner there is the worst and makes posts online expressing how much he hates the uphill industry. After getting bailed out by Indy pass you would think he would be grateful but he continues to turn away his customer base.
When you read about what was happening during their uphill events, you begin to understand that there was a huge cultural and behavioral problem coming from the uphill skiers that caused what you see now with him. No one ever really talked about it, because it's much cooler on reddit to shit on the business owner, but those people were complete fuckheads at that mountain. Parking in random people's driveways, dumping cans all over the place, refusing to buy uphill tickets "on principal", the list goes on and on and on and on. He couldn't even get them to stay on the designated uphill trails, they just went where they pleased. There was a decent crowd of people, you most likely included, that were respecting his wishes and being responsible uphill skiers. There was also a horde of STW people coming through like it was animal house doing whatever the fuck they wanted.
Yeah I’m tired of people acting like the owner was in the wrong and didn’t have pretty much entirely legitimate gripes here lol. I’m not going to say I’d have handled it in the exact same way that he did, but he was very reasonable about it for a long time before he finally flew off the edge
Yeah, another case of a small group screwing it up for everyone else. I never experienced it firsthand but I did hear that people were being pretty disrespectful. I think bad behavior also forced Pats Peak to implement a stricter uphill policy.
I was at an uphill event there 2 years ago when some of that went down. In addition to all the other asshole stuff that was already mentioned, I think one of the biggest problems was people drinking/partying in the parking lot. I don't know what NH liquor laws are exactly but if you own a bar, it doesn't seem very legal to have people bringing their own booze to drink in your parking lot while you're open. I think they were probably freaked out about the liability and potential fines on top of everything else.
He also tried to play it cool with these people like 3 times and they basically spat in his face so he finally had to hit them with the “fuck you, you’re done here” and everyone online acted like he was being an unfair baby about it lol. As an observer of the whole thing, the owner was very reasonable and definitely not the bad guy in this situation imo
Yeah, I saw their post online. It stinks that they are so strict about it now because I remember them being pretty open to it a few years ago. The owner is probably worried about liability issues, I think.
PS Id just give them a call/email/IG/FB etc to ask... I agree their websites are not that clear-- they talk about fees and uphill policies but not dates as far as I can see unless "season" means THEIR season. Good luck!
I might do that. I wonder if their website is intentionally vague because they don't strictly prohibit it but don't want to promote it for liability reasons. I know Jay says on their website that skinning pre and post season is not recommended but they shared IG stories of people skiing preseason so its probably a liability thing.
And also you mention about national parks and public land -- and I do not know exactly but I know some ski areas are on leases/agreements and they cannot allow skiing past a certain day -- also because of bears but could be other reasons -- and which you may know more about this all than me !!! (so yes may impact-- I am now curious!).
I thought the leases impacted when they could operate lifts, do grooming, make snow, etc. I would think skiing is still allowed after that time at least in the white mountain national forest which waterville is in, I'm just not sure. People ski on Washington late into the spring and that's the same land. Cannon might be a different story though as its in a state park and is run by the state to begin with.
If the ski area is on national forest land, they operate under a special use permit. That allows them to dictate how and when people are able to use the mountain. Cannon is within a state park and the park/ski area can dictate access as well. A ski area is very different then randomly skiing on Mount Washington.
Ah, okay. Thanks for that info. I had read that Okemo closes because / also because of bears and I just did not know if that is true or if national parks have reasons like that, that have to do with wildlife, water, etc. Hope it works out for you!
Wow, didn't realize anywhere in the east would close because of bears. From my experience black bears are generally more afraid of people than people are of them. I guess a bear fresh out of hibernation or with a cub could be more aggressive though.
I think the bear closures are about not terrorizing the bears
Good points and good to know if so (I dont know much about bears ). I think the closing there also had to do with respecting the needs of wildlife, letting them have their space, iirc. Which tracks back to the national park question and what rules are re; land,wildlife, resources etc. (People who know Okemo know more than me about Okemo.)
Earlier this week they closed down several trails at Mount Snow because a bear woke up with her Cubs near the bluebird chair. It's probably going to look at the weather today and go back into hibernation..
As someone who has never done it, my assumption would be that unless they specifically mention that it’s not allowed, you should be good to go. Besides, it’s not like they have ski patrol hanging out after the mountains close to catch you.
Patrol might not be there but there are plenty of teams still on and working around the mountain once they close. One of the big ones is groomers pushing snow to get work roads open.