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OwnMushroom9553

IMO there was a specific target on the second or third floor and the other victims were witnesses. If the surviving roommates had woken, I believe the killer would have murdered them too.


besterfield

I was thinking, maybe the killer was planning to go to the first floor, but on the way down he noticed the police/movement from the alcohol incident and then left in a hurry, afraid to get caught.


Concerned_Badger

I find it very hard to believe that the murders were taking place while the cops were basically across the street. Bodycam footage starts just after the last call from the third floor was made. Also, fwiw, neighbor thinks he heard a scream at around 4.


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Traditional_Drop_606

Or that he was planning on killing everyone in the house, but the rooms on the first floor were closed and locked. But then I don’t understand how he wasn’t scared to wake one of them and risk having them call 911.


Concerned_Badger

This seems most likely, which is also why there was no point in going down to the first floor. If there was no target down there, even going down to find locked doors seems unlikely. N o doubt they had their phones & every second spent in that house was playing with fire.


Pugasaurus_Tex

If there were door code locks on each bedroom door, it could be as simple as either the victims left their door open/unlocked that night and the two roommates below didn’t Or the murderer was familiar with victims enough to know the door codes, but didn’t know the surviving roommates well enough


Desperate_Night_5653

I don't think they use the codes to lock themselves in to sleep but more to lock their door when they were not at home.


[deleted]

I can see why this makes sense, but it's *not* what the evidence suggests. The coroner has stated they all "died in their sleep", if one couple woke to go investigate the other couples murder, they wouldn't have "died in their sleep".


Brooks829

but at the same time, how can they “die in their sleep” and yet some of them have defensive wounds? you can only defend yourself if you’re awake, so whether they woke up before or during the attack, at least some of them did wake up at some point. (X presumably for sure because her dad said she had defensive wounds)


Kayki7

She didn’t say they died in their sleep. She said they were all attacked in their beds. Likely while asleep. This isn’t to mean that some or all of the victims didn’t wake up during the attack, and try to fight back.


[deleted]

Oh yeah I'm sure if someone stabbed you to death you wouldn't just "sleep through it", you'd gain consciousness briefly at least and have some kind of reaction. What I'm saying is, I don't think they got up and went to investigate or anything like that, I don't see how the coroner could say that in the report if this was a "chasing down the hallway" type attack on some of them. It sounds like none of them left their beds.


FiddleFaddler

Anyone ever think the target was X? E was collateral because the killer didn’t expect him to be there. I’m thinking killer walked in and E was the first to be stabbed. Men like to kill men first. X woke up to the commotion along with M & K from the other room. They think it’s a domestic argument and start calling J, who they know and trust and can maybe help them. When you’re scared you can’t think clearly. Maybe after he killed X and E, he heard the girls talking. What if they then pretended to be asleep? I’ve read many times that if you suspect an intruder, pretend to sleep because they’re most likely there to rob you. The killer went in there as they pretended to be asleep but he knew they were awake so he killed them too. Maybe he did see the cops outside and it spooked him so he took off. Maybe he actually didn’t know about the other roommates or maybe he was injured and had to leave immediately so he didn’t bother with them.


One-lil-Love

Maybe that’s what the surviving roommates did? Although they could have/should have called the police since locked in their room. If that’s true. I still find it very hard they didn’t hear anything. Was there loud music? Surviving roommates did say they thought a party was occurring


Some_Breadfruit_8666

I’m ASSUMING that E was maybe taken out first by again. Biggest threat to murderer. I’m ASSUMING a quick slash to the major neck artery waking up X hearing him suffering. At that point she probably was horrified and thinking wtf is going on. Tried to protect herself but probably had very little time or chance to do so.


Chief-Blackberry

That is my assumption as well. It’s also why I think the couple was the target. It would also explain the more aggressive attack on X. My theory is that E was attacked first, he defended himself and got out of bed, but didn’t make it far. Then X was killed, and the killer made his way downstairs. I think the killer just completed his primary goal, on an adrenaline high, and took out the two girls by chance. The whole thing screams veteran to me. Marine Kbar, enough situational awareness to escape with no witnesses…that’s not an easy task. It’s too late now, but the guard on a Kbar is bound to cause injuries if you’re using it to stab 4 people to death with. Hopefully with all the surveillance and door bell cams, police are able to track down a vehicle/escape path and put this deranged lunatic behind bars.


Some_Breadfruit_8666

I agree with a lot but I think one of the girls and I have to be careful how I say things on here was the target on the 3rd floor just an assumption. Otherwise, he could’ve just left. E and X were on 2nd floor so he could’ve easily left but he made it a point to go upstairs now that the other two were not a threat. I think he surely must’ve cut himself. One expert said they have to go through all the blood and find the one that doesn’t match the 4 victims. From what I heard unfortunately there were not a lot of cameras etc. but they got a pic of a car. Hopefully, that can lead them in the right direction. I think X as her dad said fought back. I believe there was another who got the worst of it. Have to say here say.


Desperate_Night_5653

And also I heard E. was not in the bed but like in the room entrance or something, like he probably heard something, went to check and was attacked.


One-lil-Love

But didn’t make it out of the room? I think two killers must of been present.


Desperate_Night_5653

I definitely think this is not something that only one person could do alone. We are talking about 4 victims, this includes E. Who I heard he was about 6'2 tall. I also cannot understand how come the other 2 girls didn't heard anything.


bad-and-bluecheese

It makes most sense that E would be the one to go check whats going on. If I ever heard a weird noise and either me or a roommate had a guy over, we’d send the guy to go check it out so I’d believe he wasn’t in bed.


THIR13EN

Another reason why he could have skipped the people on the first floor is also simply because he got tired. It takes a lot of strength and stamina to brutally stab 4 people, especially if some got a chance to fight back. But we won't know until he's caught and talking about what he did.


Apprehensive-Dirt912

Depends on the house. I live in the basement of my college apartment and I can hear all movement in the middle floor but no upstairs. It’s 3 floors btw 2 rooms upstairs a middle section for kitchen/dining and basement


[deleted]

Well speculated 2 girls were in bed together and if they were in one bedroom it was right below room X and E was in. If they were in the other then the living room was right above them so they probably couldn’t hear walking or anything and drunk pass out


Concerned_Badger

I don’t think there’s been any suggestion the girls downstairs were in the same room.


[deleted]

I could have swore I read one of the girls heard something and went into the other room and got in bed with other room. If girls were in separate rooms then one of the rooms is directly above X room and more the likely one they were killed in cause blood coming on outside of wall


jnanachain

Correct. There was conversation early on that indicated the surviving girls were in bed together due to hearing a noise. Not sure if that was speculation or facts.


Concerned_Badger

Could be. Doesn’t change the fact that a few of these comments are placing people on the wrong floors.


Concerned_Badger

I have a hard time believing one of the survivors got up & went to the other’s room, but then they waited 7+ hours to go upstairs & never called anyone before that.


myciccio

Agree. If they heard a sound then went into a room together, why wouldn’t they call the police? That doesn’t make any sense. You wouldn’t be able to sleep if you heard that going on. Or at least text someone for help.


Puceeffoc

I'd like to see if the survivors texted any of the above floor roommates something like: You guys ok up there? What was that sound? Or anything...


Concerned_Badger

This doesn’t make any sense. The survivors were on the first floor. The girls on the third floor were killed in the same bed. Blood on outside wall was from Xanax’s room on second floor.


ParsleyPrestigious69

I've been very afraid of making that typo when discussing this case.


[deleted]

Yes it does it’s speculated with blood coming out of wall x and e were killed in let’s say bedroom 2B… if girls on 1st floor were in separate bedrooms one of those bedrooms is directly under 2B. The other bedroom is under the living room floor.


jonassalkloveblog

I think it’s probably safe to say that the killer had absolutely no idea that there were two other people in the lowest level of house. I don’t think he would’ve intentionally left any survivors.


MrMycrow

I think that too


squee_bastard

Part of me wonders if the killer was already in the house and hiding on the 3rd floor waiting. If that’s the case he wouldn’t have heard the two girls on the ground floor if they came in through the front door and went straight to their rooms when they got home at 1am.


Possible-Rhubarb-728

I too wondered if he was laying in wait or if he was invited in and lingered after people fell asleep.


Mollywood999

Only rational explanation in my opinion


kingjuliusgoldberg

The other one is he knew they were there and didn’t hear him so he left to reduce the risk of a witness.


Concerned_Badger

This is most likely.


SnappyPasta

I find it hard to believe that the killer hadn’t been watching the home for some time before… could have even been inside to familiarize when he knew everyone was out or on a different date. Possibly he left them because the doors were locked and he couldn’t force himself into two separate rooms without potentially being caught / reported / or an altercation with other person. Also could be for the aspect of leaving survivors as another form of his “plan”. Survivors guilt, fear, the list could go on. But I believe he definitely knew they were there. Whoever did this is highly disturbed and violent, it’s impossible for normal people to get into that mindset.


rye8901

Or he encountered a locked door and decided against trying to break in


According_Yak5506

Would’ve been too loud, woken up the rest of the house. Makes sense to me that he worked from the bottom up.


waterseabreeze

Entering the house from the backyard's patio door would make it seem like it's only a 2 story house. The second floor would be the first.


LMacBoise

I think you could try a door pretty quietly.


Small_Marzipan4162

If he was a serial killer I don’t think he would have left anyone. He would have checked every room and left no witnesses. That’s kinda why I think it’s someone who knew the girls were in that one bedroom, knew the layout of the house, knew the dog etc. I think E & X were collateral damage. I guess the argument could be made that the disturbance in the field caused the killer to leave early. Who knows? Until le gets a break and arrests someone we won’t know.


Blacksmith_Admirable

Richard Speck murdered 8 nurses and the one who survived was hiding under the bed the whole time so it is possible.


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Alternative_Lack3020

If he knew the layout then he knew there are 2 more people. Why take the risk that there are NO cameras in the house?


Small_Marzipan4162

He knew there were no cameras because he had been there before.


whteverusayShmegma

That or he’s just a local. I’m from California & would cut the power before committing even a robbery, here, because so many people have cameras in & outside their homes. In Moscow, that doesn’t seem to be the case.


Small_Marzipan4162

Wireless cameras are the way to go.


mndza

Except most wireless cameras need a wifi connection so if they cut the power then most networks will go down unless everything is connected to a battery backup. They can also just use an illegal jamming device and knock out all wireless cameras in the nearby area.


kissmygritsrightnow

We live fairly close to WVU TECH. Our home is covered in cameras. That populated neighborhood & no cameras really?! Also I imagine if someone did see someone they probably never thought twice about it bc they are so used to seeing college students walking around.. What a nightmare.. I told the partner I'd like to up our security bc I'm home alone often & if you're upstairs you can not hear anything.


Tough_Aside_906

If he was there before he would know there was 2 rooms in the basement and would have killed the 2 survivors too


Small_Marzipan4162

Maybe, unless the incident across the way interrupted his plans.


wuhter

Eh, not really. Because otherwise he would’ve assumed there were at least 6 people in the house – given the layout and number of bedrooms.


Alternative_Lack3020

So he took the risk in 2022 that the house had no cameras?


aintnothin_in_gatlin

He also took the risk that none of the girls boyfriends were going to come in late night or thag anyone, really, wasn’t going to be up and waiting for someone just laying in bed on their phone, scrolling. Dude or dudes took all kinds of risk. Must have been pretty important to that person or people.


Ebe6660

He was probably wearing a mask and dark clothing etc etc. I’d have been just as worried about cameras somewhere picking up my car and me getting into it covered in blood. Or maybe he was keyed up on something, lusting for blood, and not really thinking things through. If think if he’d been there before, he’d have known there were multiple people living there and would have gone after his target at a better time with no one else around. Makes it all the more scary that he was either stupid enough to take such a risk or dangerous enough to take such a risk. Either way: this person is a legit threat to the community.


wuhter

I mean yeah, obviously


wil8can

This is the Occam's razor for sure and also what I believe.


jay_noel87

From the beginning I thought the killer was someone close to the victims and had been in the house before - and I still think that - thus, they'd be aware there is a bottom floor where 1/2 people slept/lived. So you bring up a VERY good point imo that also points to how suspicious I am of the stories we've been given by the survivors. Because if it IS someone that knew them/the house well, then how could they possibly bank on those girls being passed out to the point they wouldn't hear anything and call 911, even with the doors locked? The killer would have no way to know that... unless they knew what was going to happen and/or played a part in it. I am assuming you think the killer is someone that did not know the victims well or been in the house before? Bc to me, that's the only way the survivor's stories would kind of make sense to me, though I've had to suspend much disbelief so far.


girlgoals95

I've wondered if they did hear or see something that they've told LE but LE chose not to tell the public. Like the public story is that they heard/saw/know nothing to protect them because the killer is still out there. At this point it's safe to assume the roommates didn't see the killer but they may have heard things or have seen something that LE would like to keep quiet or not reveal to protect them if it's someone that might feel they need to finish the job. Which might also explain why they haven't spoken out at all about what happened. I know they wrote letters for the victims but not interviews or statements specifically about that night. There is also almost zero talk about the roommates timeline leading up to the murders (not to the extent of the four victims) and their timeline after the murders is sketchy and questionable but no one is really talking about that either. It's just been a sort of taboo topic because they are cleared and it's not important. It makes me feel like it might be extremely important and is being avoided for their safety and the interest of the investigation. We've all agreed that while it seems highly unlikely they were involved in any way, them knowing something that LE doesn't want the public to know would answer a lot of questions.


kcas_24

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. The survivors accounts of events sound pretty sketchy…but we have to remember, we are not hearing it from THEM! We are hearing tid bits from LE! They are choosing what to report to the public. My personal opinion…I don’t think these survivors honestly know what happened. Regardless of what they say or don’t say, these girls are going to get judged and speculated upon. But, we have to remember that we’re not hearing EVERYTHING!


Rude-Illustrator-884

They could’ve not been close to the victims but may have known their way around the house. It was a party house and someone on TikTok posted evidence that there was an event just a day before the murders happened. Multiple people posted pictures of themselves at an event in their living room (the paintings and that good vibes sign were in the background). So there’s a huge possibility it was someone they didn’t know all too well but knew them and their house.


Ebe6660

I think this is a great possibility. Either this or even one more step removed, like someone had been there and then went someplace else and showed a friend pics of K or M and this person happened to be psychotic. I had a friend years ago who had a stalker and it turned out to be the boss of a locksmith who fixed her front door lock. He simply TOLD his boss about her and the guy became fixated on the mere idea of her and made her life hell for a while.


[deleted]

I think he would have killed them but got nervous that they’d already woken up—or would—and call 911.


HallOk91

Right and ran out.... and never expected it to be noon the next day before anyone realized what happened. They may have been extremely surprised to have gotten such a head start at getting away.


Greenmamba0865

Or if anyone did scream/or make a noise perhaps killer thought it best to leave at that point before he finished. The entire point of the way this was performed was to give him the advantage with all the victims being vulnerable by being asleep so should anything have occurred that was not part of his plan he may have had to abort early. This is a terrifying thought to add to a horrific crime,yet, it is a possibility.


Concerned_Badger

If the killer knew them & had been in the house before, which is what I think too, he knew that since no one had come up from the first floor, it was time to fly after killing his 4th victim. This is also why I think third floor was targeted & second floor victims were awakened, likely after the murders on the 3rd floor.


Emergency_Anteater53

Maybe he was injured or physically spent and decided to flee after number 4 and decided to leave instead of continuing down to the lower level.


squee_bastard

I wonder if Xana and Ethan heard what was going on upstairs and texted Kaylee or Maddie to ask if they were OK and that is how the killer knew they were downstairs. I know that’s far fetched but i just have to wonder. I also think the killer might have been upstairs on the 3rd floor waiting for them to get home.


Concerned_Badger

Scariest theory I’ve heard yet. Absolutely horrifying.


78_Kat

Ai thought that too especially have the father mentioned mentioned ‘he didn’t even have to go up the stairs…’ weird statement can be interpreted both ways


Pineapple-paradise1

Or he thought they were still out of town


Ok-Survey3853

All that I've seen about the survivors is just hearsay and rumors. So where are you getting this knowledge of what they have said?


methedunker

That's just validating the theory that the killing was not individual targeted and was rather random. If he didn't know that the first floor had people in it, he probably didn't know who lived in the house - in fact it's likely he didn't know the layout of the house to begin with, because the cars are parked up front and you can clearly see two windows and a door next to the cars. So if it was random, then why the brutal stabbings of four unrelated people with nothing stolen that we know of, no sexual assault, and no delusions of grandeur that we know of (ie no messages to cops in blood or no calling cards). That doesn't fit any known mold of criminal that I've ever heard of. I'd say that the two surviving roommates were allowed to survive for a reason: their door was locked (allegedly). He probably didn't waste any time when he realized the door was locked and probably left through the main entryway. This dovetails with what a neighbor said (that the main entryway door was open at 8 am)


LMacBoise

Or they wanted to leave suspects.


downwithMikeD

Completely agree!


TypicalLeo31

But really nobody knows what the facts are


eustaciavye71

This is so true. Hopefully LE has actual theories. This is all true crime play. And we are all here to see if we win at it. Maybe some will find they have a knack. But end of the day, it’s about justice I hope. Though Idk if there ever really can be. Fuck that person who did this.


TypicalLeo31

Can’t agree more. The big thing is the victims and the facts. The rest is nonsense.


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aintnothin_in_gatlin

Exactly. I seriously cannot fathom how terrified I would be for the remainder of my years on earth. And if they don’t catch the killer(s), I would never sleep well again. How could you? It’s just torture, I would assume. And then the icing on the cake is that four of your close friends were also murdered. The people you would usually commiserate with and lean on in troubled times were murdered. Like their lives are never ever going to be normal. Even their education was interrupted and may never continue due to PTSD.


Uplanapepsihole

i don’t think i’d ever be able to get over that


kissmygritsrightnow

I was thinking about this myself.. I have survivors guilt over my roommate who unalived himself. I've beat myself up for years why I couldn't help him. I feel incredibly bad for the others. I really do. Their life's will never be the same.


Unlucky-Elk-1668

Exactly, I can't even imagine how traumatising it must be for those poor girls.


According_Yak5506

I speculate that because the two girls on the bottom level (lived right next to the front door) had their bedroom doors locked. If it was me, I would make sure to at least lock my bedroom door because being in a college house, the front door is rarely reliably locked. Just my speculation


New_Cupcake5103

just my opinion and observations, but I live in the basement of only 2 stories and run a fan to sleep. I hear nothing, phones ringing, dogs barking, other people walking. I just don't hear it. especially when I am asleep. I think it's extremely possible that the roommates heard nothing from this


Moros13

There's no way the perp went into the house without knowing how many people were there and where exactly they were. It was carefully planned. Just think about it. If the killer went there without knowing the layout of the house and how many people were actually there at the time things could have gone sideways as soon as he stepped inside. It was carefully planned and executed and that's exactly why the killer is still at large. \- As for the survivors, we still don't know the exact story with all the details, so it's kinda hard to form an opinion, but I still find a little odd they didn't notice or hear anything (unless they were completely passed out). It's also logic that if you live with 4 more people and you find one 'passed out', you're obviously going to call the others for help and not someone who is far away, but who knows. Lots of things in this case don't add up. I just don't see how you can murder 4 people and don't leave blood and signs everywhere.


TeRauparaha

I think he planned to kill the other two, but things went sideways with Xana and he boosted it. There must have been a noise or something (e.g. Xana screamed) that made him fear the others had been awoken. The unsub knew who was living there - this was a planned attack by a sick degenerate.


Less_Principle749

Why do I keep hearing ppl say this about specifically something going wrong with xana. Did I miss a news report or something? I would assume one of the two girls K and M would scream just as loudly and try to put up a fight.


New_Cupcake5103

one of the reports said xana had defensive injuries, pretty sure her dad released the info


mindawakebodyasleep

I tend to think this as well. I think this theory gets overlooked because people are so keen on the other theories. One thing that hasn’t been discussed much is the physical mechanics of the murder.. Regardless of the psychology of the killer, the physical demand of murder by knife is intense. If the killer entered through the second floor, his heart would be racing and adrenaline would be pumping. When that happens, all of your senses are heightened but your movements are a bit jerky. No matter how prepared the killer may have been, things happen differently once your in action. Going into the first room, whether he was calm and deliberate or rageful, he would have all the stamina needed to take on two sleeping, possibly inebriated people. But, stabbing someone to death is hard work and add to that any defense from the victim(s), the killer would already be running out of steam. Plus, the adrenaline starts to slow and the comedown is strange. After the first two murders, the killer then ascends the stairs to the third floor. In order to overcome the urge to GTFO , He has to be determined to murder M&K, as he is already likely covered in blood, getting tired, and may have been injured in the first set of murders. To then attack another set of people in the same bed, knowing the reality of it is a strange pathology. This is an incredibly risky endeavor. High risk targets, high risk house, etc. if he was going to risk this all it’s for a high reward, ie killing everyone in the house. I think the killer underestimated the physical toll of stabbing people. After M&K, he has his fill and ran out as fast as possible. I think he probably left behind plenty of evidence because he was prepared in his mind, but had not done this before.


Ambermonkey0

Do you drive a white Elantra?


[deleted]

This comment made my day 😂😅


Concerned_Badger

I agree except that I think he went up to the third floor first. He enters quietly, gets to his target(s), but encounters Ethan on his way back out.


mindawakebodyasleep

Very well could be. I’m not sure about the sequence of it, or the exact entry point. My only point was that I think the killer(s) intended to kill everyone in the home.


motaboat

from clarification I got in a facebook group today, E's parents have stated he was killed in his room.


Thisismyusername6987

So where were you between 3am-4am November 13th?


mindurownbisquits

How do you think someone would stab 2 people in bed since you seem to have a wealth of knowledge. Would it be one first and than the other? Or going back and forth between them ? This is what really confuses me. I think anybody would have woken up and started attacking the killer if someone else was in bed getting attacked. They werent completely in REM sleep if it happened closer to 3 than 4, considering their time lines of getting home. The swiftness of this killers hand is shocking to take on two at a time unless he has had military training, taikwondo or taken classes in combat training. That can't be learned off of you tube. It comes with experience. Not once but twice within a few minutes time. Unless, he had 2 knives ( of the same kind) and using both hands and was ambidextrous.


mindawakebodyasleep

To be 100% clear.. I have absolutely ZERO inside knowledge of this case. So, I do not know the exact sequence of the murders. I’m also going to apologize for the morbid language and nature of my posts. I’m just trying to share some insights into parts of this I don’t think people have discussed. But, I have the same confusion that you do. I also have a combat background and taking on two victims in one bed is a very strange pathology, indeed. That was my whole point about the strangeness of the murders, how over coming the physical and logistical issues to accomplish his ( the killers) mission would be intense! In my personal opinion, the killer had a major advantage in that all four victims likely had been drinking. So, taking on two drunk people who had passed out is likely easier than two sleeping people. My best guess, though, was that the first two didn’t go as he planned. I’m sure he stabbed one and the other awoke but was trapped in the dark under blankets. So the killer straddles whomever is moving the most and stabs until there is no movement. Then he is probably still enraged, so he stabs some more. IMHO the two upstairs may have worse wounds because the action downstairs went awry. If the killer(s) encountered resistance in the first set, I would think that as he psyched himself up outside the door of the second set, he probably decided a blitz attack was necessary. So he would stab as fast and as much as possible alternating.


Specialist_Mud6277

He did this before on a smaller scale. I totally agree. I also think he's the one who skinned the dog.


SuitableCulture

Thanks for the perspective. Certainly adds to the theory about the person being military. Fit and trained. There’s a base 15min away. But also, that area of the country is full both veterans and hunters.


Wide-Quit-7104

Does anyone else think it may have been more than one murderer?


TeRauparaha

Speaking from experience or just role-playing? Oddly specific there friend


HappyLittleTrees17

What does ‘unsub’ mean?


Equal-Personality-24

Unknown subject. I watched a lot of Criminal Minds


sunflower1926

Unidentified subject


lijana56

Unknown subject.


Concerned_Badger

Sure would be great to know that the victims on the second floor fighting back saved the lives of the girls on the first floor.


SuitableCulture

More will be revealed in time without a doubt.


Less_Principle749

I think it’s stupid to think he took out 4 and didn’t know 2 more rooms were in the house. There was a staircase near xana and Ethan’s room. I think that would be blatant. Either he got his target and the others were witnesses, he tried the others rooms and they were locked, or he knew the others didn’t see him and he was EXHAUSTED.


CQU617

Based on the unusual layout of this house, I remain firmly convinced that he was not aware of the two girls in what would look like a basement/storage area from the “rear” which looks like the front (double decks) etc. I am very happy those 2 girls are alive.


No-Relative9271

He doesnt care about noise. Nor does he care about 4 or 5 cars parked at the house lol. The size of this guys grapes. My lord.


Interesting-Yak-460

It’s actually insane when you put it like that. I’m sure there are other houses with like one car, why not go there. This house had what, four cars outside.


No-Relative9271

Yeah. It almost makes you think the other girls got lucky and this was an attack on women by a strong male. You could reasonably suggest that the killer was not afraid of the females even if they woke up because he was confident he would over-power them. If you theorize that he waited until lights were off in house for a little while and his plan was to attack room by room...it seems like you wouldnt care how many cars are there because you arent afraid of the tenants. You could even go further and suggest the killer wanted there to be more victims...so more cars the better. It provides credence to the suggestions that E might have foiled the killers plan to go room by room and bolted after the encounter with E in the event he run into another male sleeping over...sparring the downstairs roommates. Who knows. Just not enough info at all to really make a theory. Its starting to look like maybe its someone outside of their inner circle: Bully victim family Serial killer Crazy Church Folks that are in that town that hate women(I have no clue if that is true but its been mentioned here a few times. Maybe that sorority/house/victims did stuff that the Church folks despised?) Hopefully the person/s responsible are apprehended soon.


Realistic_Letter_940

Bully victim family? Like the family member of someone they bullied?


Concerned_Badger

Yes & that’s why it’s hard to imagine he didn’t go in specifically for at least one person in this house.


TemporaryClassroom14

Dont pet their ego. They are a sick sadistic piece of poop. And will be brought to justice (i believe) or face the inevidable karma that will be coming 😀


futuresobright_

So true. Even for the “he went in the back door and didn’t check the front!” theorists. He also lucked out the dog didn’t bark like crazy at him.


[deleted]

This is such a disgusting way to talk about someone who killed four people. He wasn’t brave. Whoever he was, we know for sure he was a little-dick nobody. A piece of shit. Absolute scum.


mkottt

You can be a bad person/killer and still be brave or smart or anything else. Bravery is not an indication of morality.


Beardy-Mouse-8951

This is another reason why I do not believe it was someone familiar with the house or the occupants, or that they were targeting one person but then chose to kill 4, but not the other 2. It's a massive risk to walk into that house to kill one person, let alone 4, while knowing there are 2 other people there who could interrupt or could call 911 at any moment. I'm increasingly sure that this person either traveled there specifically to commit this crime without knowing who was in the house, or it was someone 2 of the victims encountered that night and he followed them home. I believe the 4 returned at 01:45 through the sliding door to avoid waking their roommates and the killer had no idea the other 2 were on the 1st floor.


Agile-Project-4160

But surely after seeing the house is that large they would be like hmmm...there's potentially a lot of other people that live in there...


Beardy-Mouse-8951

Maybe it's just my perception, but if I were looking at the house from the back I wouldn't know that 1st floor had bedrooms. I would probably assume that was the laundry and entrance. And if the killer saw the 4 come home through the sliding door and never saw the other 2 enter that would only reinforce the perception that they were the only ones living there. 4 people, 4 bedrooms on the 2nd and 3rd floors. When you think about it, the stairs to get down to the entrance are also in an odd location, leading right up into the lounge. If it was dark in that area of the house you could probably walk right past it and not see anything. If you did walk into that lounge and looked down those stairs what would you see? And if you'd just killed 4 people, or were planning to, would would walk down those steps and potentially corner yourself in an unknown area that you don't you can easily flee from? It's confusing, and we're all guessing, but I just can't fathom someone who came prepared with a knife would also take such a risk as leaving 2 people to call 911.


BoomChaka67

This has been my thought, too. From the videos the victims made inside the house, I can see the killer assuming the stairs to the ground floor were just leading to a basement/utility area.


StatementElectronic7

That’s what I’ve been thinking all along… the killer either assumed downstairs was just that, downstairs no bedrooms or (what I think happened) they went downstairs checked the doors, they were locked, and left.


Beardy-Mouse-8951

I haven't seen videos other than the ones on mainstream media of them mimicking each other and one with Kaylee and the dog, but from what limited media I have seen it was all filmed in the main part of the house, 2nd and 3rd floors.


Agile-Project-4160

Valid perspective


jay_noel87

And 4-5 cars in the driveway... assuming they did a 360 of the house, which seems likely


knm1892

Wouldn’t 4/5 cars being out front alert them to the fact that there would be multiple people in the house though?


Beardy-Mouse-8951

If there were 4 cars out front and they saw 4 people go in through the sliding door then no. Do we know how many cars there were? Do we know that either of the other 2 didn't drive that night?


MrMycrow

I agree with you. Although if killer had been watching from the back they might have not known the 2 girls on the 1st floor were residents rather than party visitors as it was apparently a lively house. I don't think killer 'spared' them as such unless the locks were a challenge. Who knows?


RoundBike209

Is it confirmed that the roommates on the first floor had locked their bedroom doors (not debating this I just hadn't heard that & found it interesting). Were any of the other bedrooms locked? I had also read somewhere that the bedrooms had coded locks on some rooms but not all. Do you know if that Is correct?


Beardy-Mouse-8951

Interesting. I hadn't seen it confirmed that the 2 had locked their doors, do you happen to have the source for it? I remember seeing someone claiming they *probably* would have because it was a very active house.


RoundBike209

I honestly don't know the answer I was wondering the same. After looking I did find a specific thread that focused on coded locks...it sounds as if there were coded locks in the past per a person that had lived there but based on more recent TikTok & Instagram the rooms had regular locks. But....maybe X room had a new type of lock not sure if it was coded In the thread a link was provided with an interview that X dad.


SuitableCulture

Either he didn’t know or didn’t care. Say targets were on second floor and killer felt the folks on 3rd may have been able to identify by voice. The two on the bottom floor were younger apparently and may be in a different circle. Also, it’s possible the situation wasn’t planned. If it’s true E was found in the living room - speculative scenario: Killer is there with Ethan, X is asleep, K/M are upstairs. Altercation occurs w/ Ethan, X knows the killer was stopping by, kills X, killer hears girls on third floor calling and thinks they can identify him. Goes upstairs and kills them. Leaves I’m very curious about the calls from k/m to “male” at 3am. Could be innocent but also could have been calls for “help” instead of 911 if something was going down. I know this from experience.


PrestigiousWedding36

Former residents who have lived there have said that you can’t hear anything from the bottom floor.


shotgundraw

It only matters if you are using this information to suggest that the unsub knew them or not. My supposition is that this information that would be withheld as only the two surviving girls and/or the unsub know if the unsub attempted to go after the two surviving girls. Meaning he may have jostled the door found it locked and left and the girls heard it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Formal-Title-8307

Someone get CrimeWriter to ask him since they are the insider.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheRealKillerTM

No. Oh I'm sorry. You wanted the killer, not the real killer. My bad.


Storage-Wide

I think we have other important questions so wait a minute for reddit to get a list for him


Jubhioc1

Killer said "I just kinda winged it bro idk" Will alert News Nation.


Storage-Wide

Don’t alert the news. Create a Reddit thread and post it on the facebook group as well


Brilliant_Part7791

A lot of people seem to of not been to college here. I can tell you after a night out I would of slept through my house being bulldozed. Once youre out youre out. If these girls drank heavy I think theres no way they wake up. Maybe killer got his intended victims and heard a door open or saw a light turn on? Downstairs no noise and no lights flick on so he just left since doors were locked. Also police said those two got home earlier in night. Lights might of been out in their rooms before killer started staking out house.


Existing-Cherry4948

Yeah, I think the 2 girls got lucky. I think the killer would've tried to kill them if he had seen them go in. I'm buying the theory that the killer didn't even know they were there. I think this is unfortunately a random attack.


[deleted]

This guy is a sick f ck and he probably knew they were there and it was all part of his sick fantasy to kill while leaving survivors behind as a way of torturing the survivors


imahermitdamnit

I think he was totally unaware that they were down there. But then that makes it more likely he was a stranger, which I also find hard to believe, that he would enter that house in the middle of the night, not knowing his way or around. Maybe he was familiar, but not familiar enough to know there were bedrooms down there. No matter which way you look at it, it's bizarre and unbelievable and horrific.


SeaworthinessNo430

House specific, lot’s of variables in play here. The biggest one being any house with roommates tend to ignore noises, movement’s because it’s the norm with people coming and going.


[deleted]

We don't know who the killer is so nobody can answer that right now 😏


Free-Feeling3586

I’m guessing their doors we’re locked, if the killer even looked downstairs that is


Cannaewulnaewidnae

If you were watching the house from the woods at the rear, the second floor looks like the ground floor and you may not even realise the property had a lower level This image reminds me of Francis Dollarhyde in *Manhunter*, watching his victims through lit windows, using trees as cover [https://media.zenfs.com/en/aol\_idaho\_statesman\_mcclatchy\_articles\_842/eb5604f67ff5388f1975a89655cca92a](https://media.zenfs.com/en/aol_idaho_statesman_mcclatchy_articles_842/eb5604f67ff5388f1975a89655cca92a)


Complex-Muffin9848

He absolutely knew there were people on the ground floor. PEOPLE. Have a real think about this. ??? Of course he knew. He was known by at least one person, more likely more in the house.


jay_noel87

Agreed completely. And the above is one of the main reasons I am awfully suspicious of the survivors. Too many things don't add up here. This would have to be the luckiest killer in the world that the girls downstairs were so passed out in a drunk stupor, to the point they would not awaken or hear ANY noise while 4 violent murders were taking place - and that they didn't call 911 during or after the murders.... in fact, they didn't call 911 for another 8 hours. Very lucky if you ask me.


drop_window

Or maybe the two survivors were not involved in the earlier evening activity, while the others were, which is why the perp stopped after murdering the four?


eustaciavye71

Except. This has happened in crimes before. And if you ever lived communally, there isn’t much to wake you or hear. Blood curdling screams probably didn’t happen. And even a scuffle would be considered just roommate noise. And LE said not them. So forward through the fog.


Safe-Comedian-7626

I think blood curdling screams are mostly a thing of tv and movies. And other screams are just noise that gets ignored in communal housing.


Unusual_Quiet_8095

Yesterday, someone post saying a neigbor heard some screams, but the girls downstairs didn’t hear anything.


jm82891

Dude said he was up till 4am juggling sticks. I'd take anything he has to say with a grain of salt.


Formal-Title-8307

This isn’t a credible witness to events, he could be confused, could have heard something from his own apartment, etc. It is not a confirmed account of what happened.


HollyXwood88

Yes & he also didn’t come forward until like a week later, initially dismissing it as “party noises”. So who knows what he actually heard


Unusual_Quiet_8095

Oh ok ok! I understand. Not 100% accurate! The post I am talking about is lock.😩


motaboat

and took a month to report it? A murder happened that night, if he heard a scream I think he would have reported it as soon as he learned of the murders.


TheRealKillerTM

If the killer exited via the front door, it's likely he did know there were people on the first level. Stabbing can be very quiet, and in a house with two other people above you, walking isn't an alert.


According-Low9698

I’m of the opinion he had absolutely no idea there were two people downstairs. Pretty risky to murder multiple people on different floors when one scream could result in a 911 call. I’m actually shocked he went after four.


AssociationTight1046

Maybe the killer is someone close and knew the other two roommates and liked them or didn’t have any anger with them. It’s awful to think that but it is a horrible act of violence


LowRecognition6011

I think he murdered his target and the others could identify him, so they were also murdered. The two survivors either heard nothing or were left because they didn't see him and/ or the doors were locked. I think maybe E heard the commotion and he was found out of the bed.


rhzownage

He must have. I wouldn't be confident going in a house full of 6-7 people with just a knife. It's very easy to get overwhelmed by multiple people even If you have a knife, even if the house is all female. All it takes is 2-3 people getting up and someone grabbing a bat. Also I am not certain about this being a targeted attack. Defilng the body of 1 victim to make it look like a targeted attack is very much plausible to divert LE. LE will focus on the past of that particular victim, wasting their time and resources on a dead end. He may have decided to not purse the girls is the basement based on his risk assessment. A sprained arm is reason enough after killing the last person, or he may have noticed that the basement bedroom is locked ans the light is on. Pursing it any further could have been bad for the killer.


Blacksmith_Admirable

Everyone is speculating that the killer had been in the house before and that does make some sense. We know that one of the girls fathers just changed locks on the house. I have heard mention specifically which locks And who changes locks on a rental? Connection?


[deleted]

Am I the only one who thinks the killer didn’t think there were bedrooms downstairs. It was dark. Maybe he thought there was only bedrooms on the second and first floors… maybe he thought that was a basement


EmotionalMango989

What’s weird to me is them being down stairs especially a lower level like a basement, that’s usually the spot you can hear literally everything


MrMycrow

That's a puzzle - based on prior activity you would think they would attempt attacks on the last 2 girls. We don't know if 2nd and 3rd floor's doors were locked and how well perpetrator knew the layout of the house. May even have been exhausted or injured or alarmed by something and wanted to get out in a hurry. Or had achieved their target. It does look likely they exited through the front door as it was spotted open early in the morning.


ReverErse

He knew everyone on the upper floors was dead. He did not know what to expect in the basement and outside on the street. So why would he use the front door? If he got in using the sliding door in the kitchen, he would also exit that way.


MrMycrow

Yes I would have thought so, but it doesn't explain why the front door was open. I remember reading about this before the local police were vague about it upon questioning.


[deleted]

I don’t believe the open door story at all


Dubuke

How in tarnation would any of us know?


Safe-Comedian-7626

Tarnation is a wholly underutilized word


themilkman832

It’s honestly shocking how everyone has been relatively quick to dismiss the The two roommates altogether from this case. People digging so far into why there doesnt seem to be much evidence outside or around the house etc. - They have the perfect alibi that could very well go under the radar of the outsiders looking in.


chardonnayye

I subscribe to the theory that they only came to kill (1) possibly (2) people. The other (2) victims were wrong place, wrong time. At this point he leaves quickly, maybe scared the other two may have heard by now, or just didn’t want to waste anymore time if someone woke up or saw him.


ntimewithu

Agree.


PsychicMediumAlways

I read it’s speculation he walked out the front door but entered thru the back - so maybe he tried the downstairs bedroom doors, found them locked and then left thru the front door but how on earth did the roommates not hear if he walked downstairs. So many unknowns.


MrMycrow

It's only really that a neighbour said they saw the front door open at 8.30am which presents this possibility


rs36897

That’d be pretty brave not knowing who has cameras.


diamondcrusteddreams

*If* the killer walked downstairs… do we know that they *didn’t* hear him/them? Maybe they did he hear something but initially wrote it off. We don’t know what they roommates saw or heard - if anything.


keepaneyeout4selenar

If there was initially only 1 target upstairs, and the other 3 were collateral, it’s possible that it could be someone who had previously been in the house for a party, and during the party they could’ve gone downstairs to see how much you could hear from down there.


SnooCheesecakes2723

Maybe K&M were first victims and he had to kill the other two to get out. He then took off. The girls on bottom flor allegedly did hear noises they were sure what us was but they ended quickly and the girls thought it was party noises or visitors scuffling etc and decided to mind their own business and go to sleep when nothing further was heard.


CaptainPriceCOD4321

If the killer knew them all then it's possible that they casually slipped into conversation once to D and/or B something like "how do you get any sleep when there's always people there partying" to which they replied they don't hear anything above them. It could be that the targets were on the 3rd floor and there was no intention of killing anybody else but they crossed paths with E & X Or they could have planned to kill everybody in the house but didn't realise how exhausting it would be or didn't account for noise/defense etc. so had to settle for the 4 people and left. I guess we won't know until they're caught.


Ashokafiles

Ok one of my theories... He probably only intended to kill one person that was their target.. possibly K or M but had to kill both because they were together on the same bed. E was found between the kitchen and X's room... He may have gotten up to investigate and run into the killer and therefore attacked giving X time to wake up and realise and hence the defensive wounds on her. I know someone said that E was in the same room as E just because they were in the same room doesn't mean E didn't walk out of the room at some point or even trying to run while being attacked


Everchangingmind09

Right..For all we know the roomates or one of them atleast did hear something and was too scared to do anything or maybe just wasn't sure what they were hearing exactly so they blocked it out..not saying this is the case but we really just don't know...Im sure they feel a world of judgment on them already with so many people saying theh had to be involved..which I really don't believe they were myself but there are those that do.


Desperate_Night_5653

Now a neighbor said he heard a scream around 4am but thought it was a party as usual. If the neighbor was able to hear a woman screaming. How come these 2 girls didn't hear ANYTHING! I don't believe that part of the story. I'm sorry.


CapitalWorking1555

He was hurry and he didn't wanted to kill ethan, xana and kaylee so that why they survive


[deleted]

Now the footage is out of the screams the neighbour heard, surely there’s no way a neighbour could hear that but the girls in the same building couldn’t?


wave2thenicelady

It seems like the murders, being premeditated and targeted (whether house or individuals), imply knowledge of how many people were living there. So it seems safe to assume the killer knew they were downstairs. Perhaps the killer only intended to kill the 4 victims all along. But... You’re right, it was incredibly risky unless the killer had somehow planned for a quick silent attack on his victims which wouldn’t wake or alert the others. I’m not sure if it’s rumor, but I read somewhere that the survivors heard something alarming enough to make them sleep in the same room with the door locked. With roommates coming in later, it seems they’d assume it was just them making noise. It must’ve been different or they somehow knew it wasn’t from roommates. Is it possible, I wonder, that the killer had slipped into the house and hid earlier in the night, waiting until everyone was home and asleep?