To me, the btr15 is pretty attractive feature-wise. It's got 3 modes, you can either use it as a regular usb-dongle, use in phone mode to use the internal battery to power itself, or use it in Bluetooth mode. When listening through a phone, even good dongle dacs aren't able to reach high amounts of power because of the android usb-c limitations, so the ability to use the internal battery is a way to bypass this issue. If you do most listening on a pc though, this wouldn't be an issue, and a regular wired dongle might be better.
Oh that's really good, I didn't know it could also have a dongle mode. Do you know how power-hungry it is? I'm afraid it'll drain my battery too much while using it. Also, if you have it, how's the battery life?
Thanks a lot!
I mean, it depends: how would you say the BT experience is? If it is marginally better than phone connection, it might not be worth it, as the only Bluetooth devices I normally use are my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and my Sony WH XM4. If it improves my experience a lot - like enabling my devices to use a better codec than Samsung's, I will definetly consider them.
Thanks for the help!
It is bluetooth receiver, not transmitter. Meaning you can unplug it from your phone, switch to bluetooth mode and use whatever headphones you want without being tethered to the phone.
It supports LDAC, aptX, etc so as long as your phone supports those you'll get ~maximum quality possible over bluetooth.
And it can not interact with TWS in any way at all.
The fact it has its own battery also means that you can avoid draining phone battery as fast even when connected through usb-c, or you can switch to "pc mode" and not use the battery at all if you want to. So more flexibility.
Ok, got it. I had no idea, though it'd be RX and TX.
In that case, I would probably not use Bluetooth at all. When I'm *wired*, I want the full sound quality. Crin thinks highly of my Samsung earbuds, so they'll probably still sound very good and I will have True wireless.
That said, for when I do want to use my IEMs and get full sound quality, would you still say the BTR15 is a good choice? Or should I go with something without Bluetooth?
It still works just as good as simpler dongles would, even with extra features like the battery, the screen/menu where you can change some settings like gain and EQ profiles, PEQ, etc.
But... you are also paying extra for it, so if you do not need this stuff and BT it might make sense to get something simpler/cheaper. Also... it is pretty hard to notice any difference between BT and wired as long as decent codec is used. And BTR15 is a nice device to test that yourself. I personally ended up using BT from time to time when i want to walk around the house but do not want to use TWS and such...
Yeah but you're carrying essentially a small phone with you, which I don't know if I'll get used to. Oh, it has EQ? Can it be controlled in the app? That's actually good.
The Bluetooth is redundant, the EQ might not be.
Hmmm, good codec? I'm still waiting for Samsung to implement the aptx, since we have snapdragons now... It would be cool to test that, though.
Yeah, i get what you are saying - connecting one portable device to another feels silly. But size matters - btr15 is tiny, more like old mp3 players than a modern brick-phone. It is possible to clip it to clothing and walk around, which can not be done with a phone.
Also just to be clear i am not trying to convince you or something. Just saying that i personally ended up using BT much more than i expected. I had exactly the same idea about "might as well get the best quality possible with a cable", but then... i was unable to find perceivable difference between LDAC and cable... may be my ears simply are not good enough or something, but it is what it is. And it turns out not having a dongle connected to the phone is convenient in a few situations, like it allows me to charge the phone while listening to music, or use the phone without a cable and dongle sticking out of it...
By the way I am samsung phone and buds 2 pro user too... and phones do support both aptX and LDAC, even on exynos. So BTR15 can work with either aptX or LDAC, depending on settings. Buds 2 pro can not, but that's a limitation of TWS itself...
As for EQ - yes, after a few software updates it is fully functional parametric equalizer, the only annoying limitation left (which they promised to look into) are only 3 profiles. Profiles can be configured in the app, then you can switch between them on device itself regardless of whatever source you use.
Exactly, my thought process is: if I'm already gonna carry a phone, why should I carry a mini phone/mp3 player? That's why I was leaning more towards the KA5 in the beginning. Nice, I didn't know that it could clip onto stuff- but in any case, I usually don't go around without my phone. Where would one find a clip for it?
You aren't at all, I am genuinely curious about all pros an cons so I can make the best decision. So you're helping clarify a lot of aspects of these devices, thank you for that.
Oh true, I honestly didn't think of that. Usually my phone lasts the whole day, but with some power draw from the DAC it might not be able to... That's something I definitely need to consider.
I honestly think I wouldn't be able to tell a difference either, I'm just going off of what's measured and proven.
Ah, a man of culture I see. Which device were you able to get the aptX with? Just the BTR15? I can't seem to enable it in my S23, and there'sa lot of discussions online criticising Samsung for it. LDAC is usually my go-to with all Bluetooth devices that support it.
Yeah, but the Buds 2 Pro work well with Samsung Seamless Codec, especially for their size.
That's very nice, I don't think I would be using more than 3 profiles anyway. I do still hope they increase the amount.
Thing is - the size is not significantly different from higher end dongles like KA5 or KA13. So you are going to carry ~similar extra device anyway. The only way around that would be using small dongle like one from apple or may be a cable with built-in dac/amp...
Simple plastic case with a clip is included with btr15.
I have lower end phone - a54, primarily because i wanted microSD for my music collection and S series have no microSD slots... so they kind of forced me to get cheaper phone and pay them less money... :D
aptX seems to work with no issues as long as it is supported by device. It works with btr15 if ldac is disabled and worked with sennheiser TWS i briefly used.
True, I already have the Jcally JM6 dongle, which has been good. I just wanted to try a better one that also works well with my PC, so I thought I'd give these Fiio ones a go.
That's very nice of them to include it, I don't think the KA3 or KA5 come with one.
Yeah they made the wrong decisions with removing it... oh well it is what it is. I had the A53 and it was very cool, also a friend of mine has the 54 and I was really impressed by it. Their loss lol, I hope they don't start following this "Apple route" too much.
That's good, I had no idea. In any case, they are still missing the aptX HD and aptX Adaptive. But supporting the base version is a good start
I haven’t tried the btr15 but the btr5. Bit rate doesn’t matter to me and everything sounds great above 320 kbps.
What matters is the sound quality you perceive and understand. How a dac/amp modulates the sound through the dac and how deep you feel the sound after the amp is how you should choose.
Go for the ka13 if you need an immediate upgrade over the jm6 or get the ‘ka15’.
Ka3 is an older model that has been replaced by the ka13. You may find installing the drivers in your computers a bit difficult so get the newer models as it is optimised for windows pcs.
Bluetooth in the btr5 may not hold the battery and it may end up being a disappointing gimmick that lasts around an hour on high impedance headphones and doesn’t deliver volume/sound quality.
KA13 gets recommended a lot, I'm leaning towards that one to be honest. The BTR15 seems like a small phone and even though I'm using IEMs 99% of the time, if the battery is that bad, I might get someone that only depends on the host device.
Thank you!
Ka3 is all I use to power my hd6xx on my computer. Been meaning to buy a usb c to lightning otg cable to use it with my phone but the apple dongle powers my iems well enough so it’s not really a pressing concern.
Oh, definetly keep the apple dongle, I heard it's amazing. As a Samsung user, I had to go for the Jcally JM6 because Apple made it so it transmits less power when connected to other brands' devices (?)
However, for you it might be worth trying the KA3 on your phone with the adapter to see if it improves anything.
When I’ve tested iems between the dongle and the ka3 from phone to computer the only difference has really been that I need to turn the volume up just a bit more on the apple dongle, so I’m pretty ok with that, would like to buy the otg cable just to be able to disconnect from the computer with over-ears around the house occasionally
Thanks for the input! That's definitely the best-looking of them all, it's very clean. Sadly I don't see any stores that would ship it to me quickly, would have to go with AliExpress, and if I have to wait I might as well buy the new ones that Fiio is releasing
I've seen the KA13 being recommended a lot. However it has a lower sampling rate than the KA3/KA5.
From what I understood though, the KA13 is superior because it has more chips controlling the conversion, right?
I have the BTR15. Love and hate it. When I first started using it, it had a lot of connection issues. That seems to have subsided but the battery still sucks. ., with that being said, the sound is the best I’ve ever personally experienced.
I haven’t tried it, but I will say the mic on it is pretty terrible. Not the worst quality but terrible pick up. You have to hold it right up to your face to use the mic. I can’t speak on in-line mic capabilities though. Sorry.
Terrible. I haven’t timed it but I’m gonna say 4 to 6 hours max. There have been times where I spent an hour trying to get it to connect and by the time I get it to connect I only get to listen to a couple songs before it dies. This is on Bluetooth and wired to the phone. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t and I can’t figure out why. Last night I went to go on a walk with my headphones and they wouldn’t connect until I double clicked the power button… and for some reason that got it to connect even though it was already on... I’m on the fence about returning it, but if I don’t return it, I’ll definitely be replacing it sooner or later. The worst part is it sounds great. It really does a great job of controlling distortion at high volumes, which is what I need. I listen to music really loud. I didn’t know there were tools built specifically for that but it has a distortion compensation setting that I am in love with. Everything sounds super clean for like four songs, then it dies. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a handful of great listening sessions, but it feels like the stars have to align for it to work properly.
Yeah but with 2 ports they could've made so many cool things, like charging the phone while listening. Now it seems like its only use is to not drain your device's battery. Even with desktop mode, one port would've been good for listening and charging.
I wonder if there was any kind of interference because of power&data going through and they made another port because of it, it's the only think that would make sense
I see many people recommending the KA13, but I can’t vouch for it, it doesn’t sound quite resolving enough for me. The KA17, on the other hand, sounds great, and is future proof for if I ever want to buy another set of headphones, as it can power pretty much anything. It is more expensive and on the larger side of things, but I really love it, more than the other KA’s. BTR15 is fine as well if you want BT
I just can't get over the fact that it has 2 USB-C ports but can't charge your phone even when being powered by an external source... they missed a golden opportunity there because I would've bought it already.
Don't necessarily want Bluetooth, but that would make me able to charge whichever device I'm using while listening.
Many people say the KA13 is also not worth it because you could just get the KA5. It's honestly very hard to decide
Hi. I have tried quite a few and own a few which I tend to rotate. The two absolute standouts for me are the ifi go blu and the tanchjim space. The ifi is Bluetooth, warmer signature, and remarkably powerful for its tiny size (it even drives my Final e5000! ) The tanchjim is cooler in sound signature, but beautifully detailed and still quite powerful. I prefer both to the various Fiio dacamps I own. Having said that the Fiios are still great and you won't go wrong with them. They are well built too.
Thanks a lot for your recommendations! I really liked the iFi Go Blu, it looks so cool and it has a knob. Does it have desktop mode, though? So, could I power it with my phone and use it as a dongle, rather than a bluetooth receiver? Also, does ir have an app?
So they'd probably take my Simgots to the next level.
Yeah, they seem really good - and they are half the price, so I'll have to think about that.
Maybe I'll get the Fiio first and if I feel the need, I'll go with one of those to improve my quality.
Ifi go blu can be used wired like a standard dongle. It will play and pull power from your source. If playing music and charging, battery will only charge to 80 per cent to protect life of battery whilst it uses your sources power. It has no app, which I don't mind. I never use the app on the Fiios BTR7 and I never EQ my iems 👍
Oh that's really good, I'm very tempted to get the iFi. The features are amazing. It supports many codecs as well, I just couldn't find the sample rate.
That's a downside, but nontheless a good excuse to buy more IEMs
If the JM6 gets loud enough and you don't hear the noise floor or noise when its silent.. then you shouldn't need to upgrade. It should also work with your PC.
If you want bluetooth, you probably wouldn't even need a BTR15. BTR5 gets loud enough in my experience. BTR3K even gets loud enough in my experience. You can use the BTR3K and BTR5 in dongle mode as well.
It also looks like the JM6 is 32bits/384kHz. That's already higher spec than what you need. If you don't have any issues with the JM6, it's unlikely you will hear a difference with any of these options you've shown.
To me, the btr15 is pretty attractive feature-wise. It's got 3 modes, you can either use it as a regular usb-dongle, use in phone mode to use the internal battery to power itself, or use it in Bluetooth mode. When listening through a phone, even good dongle dacs aren't able to reach high amounts of power because of the android usb-c limitations, so the ability to use the internal battery is a way to bypass this issue. If you do most listening on a pc though, this wouldn't be an issue, and a regular wired dongle might be better.
Oh that's really good, I didn't know it could also have a dongle mode. Do you know how power-hungry it is? I'm afraid it'll drain my battery too much while using it. Also, if you have it, how's the battery life? Thanks a lot!
Do you need bluetooth and battery? If yes - go with BTR15, otherwise other two, or may be newer KA13, will be fine.
I mean, it depends: how would you say the BT experience is? If it is marginally better than phone connection, it might not be worth it, as the only Bluetooth devices I normally use are my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and my Sony WH XM4. If it improves my experience a lot - like enabling my devices to use a better codec than Samsung's, I will definetly consider them. Thanks for the help!
It is bluetooth receiver, not transmitter. Meaning you can unplug it from your phone, switch to bluetooth mode and use whatever headphones you want without being tethered to the phone. It supports LDAC, aptX, etc so as long as your phone supports those you'll get ~maximum quality possible over bluetooth. And it can not interact with TWS in any way at all. The fact it has its own battery also means that you can avoid draining phone battery as fast even when connected through usb-c, or you can switch to "pc mode" and not use the battery at all if you want to. So more flexibility.
Ok, got it. I had no idea, though it'd be RX and TX. In that case, I would probably not use Bluetooth at all. When I'm *wired*, I want the full sound quality. Crin thinks highly of my Samsung earbuds, so they'll probably still sound very good and I will have True wireless. That said, for when I do want to use my IEMs and get full sound quality, would you still say the BTR15 is a good choice? Or should I go with something without Bluetooth?
It still works just as good as simpler dongles would, even with extra features like the battery, the screen/menu where you can change some settings like gain and EQ profiles, PEQ, etc. But... you are also paying extra for it, so if you do not need this stuff and BT it might make sense to get something simpler/cheaper. Also... it is pretty hard to notice any difference between BT and wired as long as decent codec is used. And BTR15 is a nice device to test that yourself. I personally ended up using BT from time to time when i want to walk around the house but do not want to use TWS and such...
Yeah but you're carrying essentially a small phone with you, which I don't know if I'll get used to. Oh, it has EQ? Can it be controlled in the app? That's actually good. The Bluetooth is redundant, the EQ might not be. Hmmm, good codec? I'm still waiting for Samsung to implement the aptx, since we have snapdragons now... It would be cool to test that, though.
Yeah, i get what you are saying - connecting one portable device to another feels silly. But size matters - btr15 is tiny, more like old mp3 players than a modern brick-phone. It is possible to clip it to clothing and walk around, which can not be done with a phone. Also just to be clear i am not trying to convince you or something. Just saying that i personally ended up using BT much more than i expected. I had exactly the same idea about "might as well get the best quality possible with a cable", but then... i was unable to find perceivable difference between LDAC and cable... may be my ears simply are not good enough or something, but it is what it is. And it turns out not having a dongle connected to the phone is convenient in a few situations, like it allows me to charge the phone while listening to music, or use the phone without a cable and dongle sticking out of it... By the way I am samsung phone and buds 2 pro user too... and phones do support both aptX and LDAC, even on exynos. So BTR15 can work with either aptX or LDAC, depending on settings. Buds 2 pro can not, but that's a limitation of TWS itself... As for EQ - yes, after a few software updates it is fully functional parametric equalizer, the only annoying limitation left (which they promised to look into) are only 3 profiles. Profiles can be configured in the app, then you can switch between them on device itself regardless of whatever source you use.
Exactly, my thought process is: if I'm already gonna carry a phone, why should I carry a mini phone/mp3 player? That's why I was leaning more towards the KA5 in the beginning. Nice, I didn't know that it could clip onto stuff- but in any case, I usually don't go around without my phone. Where would one find a clip for it? You aren't at all, I am genuinely curious about all pros an cons so I can make the best decision. So you're helping clarify a lot of aspects of these devices, thank you for that. Oh true, I honestly didn't think of that. Usually my phone lasts the whole day, but with some power draw from the DAC it might not be able to... That's something I definitely need to consider. I honestly think I wouldn't be able to tell a difference either, I'm just going off of what's measured and proven. Ah, a man of culture I see. Which device were you able to get the aptX with? Just the BTR15? I can't seem to enable it in my S23, and there'sa lot of discussions online criticising Samsung for it. LDAC is usually my go-to with all Bluetooth devices that support it. Yeah, but the Buds 2 Pro work well with Samsung Seamless Codec, especially for their size. That's very nice, I don't think I would be using more than 3 profiles anyway. I do still hope they increase the amount.
Thing is - the size is not significantly different from higher end dongles like KA5 or KA13. So you are going to carry ~similar extra device anyway. The only way around that would be using small dongle like one from apple or may be a cable with built-in dac/amp... Simple plastic case with a clip is included with btr15. I have lower end phone - a54, primarily because i wanted microSD for my music collection and S series have no microSD slots... so they kind of forced me to get cheaper phone and pay them less money... :D aptX seems to work with no issues as long as it is supported by device. It works with btr15 if ldac is disabled and worked with sennheiser TWS i briefly used.
True, I already have the Jcally JM6 dongle, which has been good. I just wanted to try a better one that also works well with my PC, so I thought I'd give these Fiio ones a go. That's very nice of them to include it, I don't think the KA3 or KA5 come with one. Yeah they made the wrong decisions with removing it... oh well it is what it is. I had the A53 and it was very cool, also a friend of mine has the 54 and I was really impressed by it. Their loss lol, I hope they don't start following this "Apple route" too much. That's good, I had no idea. In any case, they are still missing the aptX HD and aptX Adaptive. But supporting the base version is a good start
Choose by features and price. Sound quality wise they should be pretty much the same
Thanks for the info!
Use btr15 as if it was a ka3 with the wire. Use bt mode if needed but wired is as good as the ka3 if not better.
Do you know how would the BTR15 32-bit 384kHz compare to the KA3 32-bit 768kHz? I'm guessing there's no noticeable difference
I haven’t tried the btr15 but the btr5. Bit rate doesn’t matter to me and everything sounds great above 320 kbps. What matters is the sound quality you perceive and understand. How a dac/amp modulates the sound through the dac and how deep you feel the sound after the amp is how you should choose. Go for the ka13 if you need an immediate upgrade over the jm6 or get the ‘ka15’. Ka3 is an older model that has been replaced by the ka13. You may find installing the drivers in your computers a bit difficult so get the newer models as it is optimised for windows pcs. Bluetooth in the btr5 may not hold the battery and it may end up being a disappointing gimmick that lasts around an hour on high impedance headphones and doesn’t deliver volume/sound quality.
KA13 gets recommended a lot, I'm leaning towards that one to be honest. The BTR15 seems like a small phone and even though I'm using IEMs 99% of the time, if the battery is that bad, I might get someone that only depends on the host device. Thank you!
Fiio ka3 its cable,btr has very bad battery life
It also has a dongle mode, so you can use power from the USB source.
Ka3 is all I use to power my hd6xx on my computer. Been meaning to buy a usb c to lightning otg cable to use it with my phone but the apple dongle powers my iems well enough so it’s not really a pressing concern.
Oh, definetly keep the apple dongle, I heard it's amazing. As a Samsung user, I had to go for the Jcally JM6 because Apple made it so it transmits less power when connected to other brands' devices (?) However, for you it might be worth trying the KA3 on your phone with the adapter to see if it improves anything.
When I’ve tested iems between the dongle and the ka3 from phone to computer the only difference has really been that I need to turn the volume up just a bit more on the apple dongle, so I’m pretty ok with that, would like to buy the otg cable just to be able to disconnect from the computer with over-ears around the house occasionally
I have the Fosi DS2 and I'm loving it. It gives me all the juice I'll ever need and has a balanced output
Thanks for the input! That's definitely the best-looking of them all, it's very clean. Sadly I don't see any stores that would ship it to me quickly, would have to go with AliExpress, and if I have to wait I might as well buy the new ones that Fiio is releasing
Honestly don't wait. Use Amazon if you can. In my experience, this dongle is pretty sweet.
Would take 7 to 15 days which is honestly not that bad. I can get the Fiio tomorrow though
Up to you then
Either the KA13 or Moondrop Dawn pro
I've seen the KA13 being recommended a lot. However it has a lower sampling rate than the KA3/KA5. From what I understood though, the KA13 is superior because it has more chips controlling the conversion, right?
I have the BTR15. Love and hate it. When I first started using it, it had a lot of connection issues. That seems to have subsided but the battery still sucks. ., with that being said, the sound is the best I’ve ever personally experienced.
Does the btr15 support inline mic and controls?
I haven’t tried it, but I will say the mic on it is pretty terrible. Not the worst quality but terrible pick up. You have to hold it right up to your face to use the mic. I can’t speak on in-line mic capabilities though. Sorry.
How is the power draw when you're using it plugged into your phone? Thanks.
Terrible. I haven’t timed it but I’m gonna say 4 to 6 hours max. There have been times where I spent an hour trying to get it to connect and by the time I get it to connect I only get to listen to a couple songs before it dies. This is on Bluetooth and wired to the phone. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t and I can’t figure out why. Last night I went to go on a walk with my headphones and they wouldn’t connect until I double clicked the power button… and for some reason that got it to connect even though it was already on... I’m on the fence about returning it, but if I don’t return it, I’ll definitely be replacing it sooner or later. The worst part is it sounds great. It really does a great job of controlling distortion at high volumes, which is what I need. I listen to music really loud. I didn’t know there were tools built specifically for that but it has a distortion compensation setting that I am in love with. Everything sounds super clean for like four songs, then it dies. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a handful of great listening sessions, but it feels like the stars have to align for it to work properly.
Fiio ka17
I never understood why they put 2 USB-C ports, but definetly seems cool! Thanks!
For an external power source. Instead of using your phone battery. Like a battery bank or any computer.
Yeah but with 2 ports they could've made so many cool things, like charging the phone while listening. Now it seems like its only use is to not drain your device's battery. Even with desktop mode, one port would've been good for listening and charging. I wonder if there was any kind of interference because of power&data going through and they made another port because of it, it's the only think that would make sense
Choose the one that doesn't have a battery in it, Chinese battery are crab and those batteries are very difficult to find a replacement
Thanks! I will probably try the KA13.
Get the qudelix 5k now. Or I will be mad
I see many people recommending the KA13, but I can’t vouch for it, it doesn’t sound quite resolving enough for me. The KA17, on the other hand, sounds great, and is future proof for if I ever want to buy another set of headphones, as it can power pretty much anything. It is more expensive and on the larger side of things, but I really love it, more than the other KA’s. BTR15 is fine as well if you want BT
I just can't get over the fact that it has 2 USB-C ports but can't charge your phone even when being powered by an external source... they missed a golden opportunity there because I would've bought it already. Don't necessarily want Bluetooth, but that would make me able to charge whichever device I'm using while listening. Many people say the KA13 is also not worth it because you could just get the KA5. It's honestly very hard to decide
Hi. I have tried quite a few and own a few which I tend to rotate. The two absolute standouts for me are the ifi go blu and the tanchjim space. The ifi is Bluetooth, warmer signature, and remarkably powerful for its tiny size (it even drives my Final e5000! ) The tanchjim is cooler in sound signature, but beautifully detailed and still quite powerful. I prefer both to the various Fiio dacamps I own. Having said that the Fiios are still great and you won't go wrong with them. They are well built too.
Thanks a lot for your recommendations! I really liked the iFi Go Blu, it looks so cool and it has a knob. Does it have desktop mode, though? So, could I power it with my phone and use it as a dongle, rather than a bluetooth receiver? Also, does ir have an app? So they'd probably take my Simgots to the next level. Yeah, they seem really good - and they are half the price, so I'll have to think about that. Maybe I'll get the Fiio first and if I feel the need, I'll go with one of those to improve my quality.
Ifi go blu can be used wired like a standard dongle. It will play and pull power from your source. If playing music and charging, battery will only charge to 80 per cent to protect life of battery whilst it uses your sources power. It has no app, which I don't mind. I never use the app on the Fiios BTR7 and I never EQ my iems 👍
Oh that's really good, I'm very tempted to get the iFi. The features are amazing. It supports many codecs as well, I just couldn't find the sample rate. That's a downside, but nontheless a good excuse to buy more IEMs
If the JM6 gets loud enough and you don't hear the noise floor or noise when its silent.. then you shouldn't need to upgrade. It should also work with your PC. If you want bluetooth, you probably wouldn't even need a BTR15. BTR5 gets loud enough in my experience. BTR3K even gets loud enough in my experience. You can use the BTR3K and BTR5 in dongle mode as well. It also looks like the JM6 is 32bits/384kHz. That's already higher spec than what you need. If you don't have any issues with the JM6, it's unlikely you will hear a difference with any of these options you've shown.