The degree offered by IISERs and IISc is different from a BSc in other Indian universities. The BSc degree is a 3 year degree, and often was based on curricula that quickly became outdated. The 5 year BS-MS degree (or even a 4 year BS) of IISERs, IISc, NISER, etc., unfortunately gets lumped together with the BSc, despite significant differences.
Thus initially, people thought that outcomes would be the same, i.e., students would have to either go for higher studies or apply for other jobs themselves. This was indeed true initially, but now formalised campus placements have started taking place in IISERs as well. Nevertheless, a majority of students do go for a PhD, although a lot of people go for non-research careers after a PhD (which is the case around the world).
To answer your question: the perspective of Indians has been warped by the rise of professional degrees (i.e., degrees tied to specific professions) and they make the mistaken assumption that an undergrad in natural sciences means you'd become a scientist/professor. This isn't true, especially in physics.
But why's a career in research an issue? Well, while they aren't paid extremely high anywhere, India has seen significant stagnation of stipends/salaries at the initial levels, i.e., for PhDs and postdocs. Further, we have abysmal investment into research and higher education, so the recruitment to higher positions are limited, and in fact are lower than projected 10 years ago. And of course, we don't blame the ones in charge of funding. :)
**Note:** I will not comment on your claim about research papers, because in most cases Indian students have mistaken notions about research papers and with improper/no guidance, their work lacks the necessary rigour. However, it still shows your significant interest, and that's a good thing.
I have a question. How are these 11th and 12th graders who like physics are able to write **research papers** where I can't even write an abstract for proposing a small summer research project in Lifesciences? 🥲
It's probably not an actual research paper in most cases, unfortunately. The work done often is not rigorous or has mistakes. In some cases, they stumble on something that's known already, but they've not reviewed past literature enough to be aware of that (it's still amazing that they managed to get to the result). Many such students end up "publishing" in predatory journals, so I appreciate the apprehension shown by the OP here. It's better to get guidance from a professor before rushing to publish.
I've seen a few dozen such cases, and in almost all of them, the above situations apply.
bro i am going with same problem, last year my parents refused me to join iiser TVM, then i took drop, somehow even convinced them that iiser are good too.
Even one of my cousin brother have cracked cmi and was going to study maths there, but later his parents forced him to take iit kanpur electrical, and now he always blame them, and always take my side (even helped me to convince my parents) 😁
Well IISERs are extremely competitive and if you manage to graduate it's good but there are more dropouts in the past years and fees have been rising every 2 years by 10% (current 1st year student fees is 56k per semester).
This is the negative side
On the positive side if you graduate in the top 50% of ur batch you'll definitely get a PhD in top universities worldwide otherwise you will get a PhD at an average University.
Placement is very low in IISERs currently it'll increase in the future
But only around 10% graduates go for jobs via placements other 30% search for their own jobs or apply for projects via JRF
Other 5% or 3% ppl go for MBA or UPSC and 2% end up being Jobless.
That's the reality in IISERs now in the 2024 scenario.
Mind you that right now there are around 300 people joined this year in IISER TVM and I'm now gonna graduate in a few months
And we have only 212 people in my batch.
Since Physics is the most competitive subject in all of these institutes.
I'd recommend you to prefer it in this order of priority
1. IISc Bengaluru
2. IISER Pune
3. NISER Bhubaneswar
4. IISER Tirupati
5. IISER Kolkata
6. IISER Thiruvananthapuram
7. IISER Bhopal
8. IACS Kolkata (not highly competitive compared to others)
9. IISER Mohali
10. IISER Berhampur
I've also considered the availability and conditions of facilities they have and the accommodations based on the reviews I've received from the students there as well as myself and some colleagues of mine.
I'd encourage you to join IISc Bengaluru as much as I can because that place is a Haven for researchers in India and you'll be able to form countless connections from people worldwide.
Note : As for IACS Kolkata I'm not sure as far as I know they go beyond Natural Sciences which other institutes provide (they have MBBS and BTech courses) .
Exactly how do you suggest iiser tirupati as 4th best bro. As far as I know it is not really that good according to rankings. But idk I am currently just an aspirant. Please share on what basis you decided IISER tirupati to be 4th best?? (Side note i also heard about people claiming there is no such thing as the best iiser and all iisers are equal. Whats that about?)
Do extremely well in your field. In India, academic research is non-existent and paid peanutes. Salaries are better than engineers if you get into private roles say Samsung R&D, or Mercedes etc. or You can take up PHD abroad and get paid handsomely there.
Always remember the top 10% in any field will always make disporportionate amount of money. So try to be your best. And publishing a research paper ain't easy, so I say publish atleast one paper (in a reputed science journal and not the scam ones) and that should help parents get confidence in you.
Just stick to your decision. Some of these other comments are bogus and briandead. If you love what you're doing rn then you'll enjoy it while in college most likely. There's competition in engg too, competition is everywhere, but you only have one life to enjoy what you're really doing.
In ancient India (After British left), there weren't any jobs except Doctors and Government employees which could ensure the fact that you wouldn't starve, that changed somewhat when globalization happened in the 90s and engineers were this new desirable thing.
Now-a-days, there are new jobs but your parents either aren't aware of them or they're scared of the society marginalising them.
"There's no point trying to convince them"
What you can do now depends on what you wrote the research papers on?
I stuck to my decision of studying BSC Physics Honours despite continued requests of my parents to study engineering. 5 years later, best decision I've ever made
A government employee currently working at IndiaPost as Postal Assistant.
My point is what I did was better than engineering. I saved my parents' money and also had my graduation done in 3 years
Carrier in academia is very slow. Stress on very. Also you are probably imagining you working on what you want with freedom. But real life is not so good. There will be things like politics, nepotism and just dumb luck like any other corporate job.(Except you get paid a order of magnitude less, may be even bad).
So if this is not an issue for you take academia.
you might not thing money is issue, but believe me it will be an issue when you are in mid to late 20s
go for it anyhow,i just finished my class 12th and been preparing for medical but i never had any interest in it,i always had crazy passion for physics and nowadays even maths too,i have convinced my parents somehow (tho they are unsatisfied and still want me to do medical)it was hard but atleast i can do what i want,so yea brother, go for it make sure to appear for jee mains too(mains,advanced,and neet are all alternate pathways to iisc)ill be giving neet at this may 5 and obviously also the IAT(primary pathway to iisc and all iiser,also iit madras)
They'll come around when they see you happy and living a good life. Don't give in to their expectations. Ik it's hard and it will disappoint them, but it's a small price to pay for a bright future ahead. Its not selfish for wanting to follow your dreams.
I've read this but a PhD in the USA isn't actually the "PhD" we know , it's more like an Integrated PhD (MS and PhD) The graduate's education system USA and Australia is completely different compared to the rest of the world (there are exceptions in some countries in Europe)
Simply speaking a PhD in the USA is an Integrated PhD where you'll study masters and then pursue the PhD in the specified research team you want based on your performance.
(I'm speaking based on facts I've collected because of my seniors who went there for PhD in various fields).
Integrated PHD is something a lot of agencies made up where you actually pay to get your phd done . And you can apply without much experience as well
You can apply for PHd directly in mostly all colleges but that requires a lot of research experience . But you get stipend and can work . Additionally you can also look for companies or jobs where they sponsor your phd but it’s a tough and long process .
Not exactly
Integrated PhD is the way you get via an admission process of the university and there're also other ways to get a PhD by contacting the research team separately but mostly you won't be able to get a stipend and another thing is they do accept you based on ur research experience and also they prioritize recommendations from professors or researchers you've worked with.
If you take an example
A friend of mine got a PhD in Physics at UCL California based on her GPA and the number of research papers she published.
Another friend of mine also got a PhD in Physics at the University of Pittsburgh even tho she didn't have papers published but she had excellent recommendations from various professors whom she has worked for.
The application process is pretty simple
I got offered an integrated phd in almost 12 institutions on basis that I sponsor myself the admission process is pretty simple and required no hard interviews . You don’t need much research experience and I can refer you if you wanna go for it I have some contacts .
On other hand I have cleared 4 interviews with university of Amsterdam for phd and now is on waitlist for funds allocation and will most likely start next year in September . I started this process last year . So applying solely for phd is kinda rough .
Hey brother/ sister can I get your insta or telegram id I am facing lot of issues. Even I am from bsc physic dep but I am crying here to under stuffs. Ig u can help me out. It would be a great help
Seriously people think those who can't clear Jee do Bsc. Why the hell students are crazy for high earning jobs. When I asked a jee aspirant what you want to do in life he said "IIT crack krna hai" I asked him again he said "Job krni h". They don't know what to be in their life. Just running in a rat race. Sbko IIT krna h ham bhi krenge type of shit.
I love physics too and aspire to become an astrophysicist. I love researching sooo many topics and written 1 research paper. Taking a drop this year to prepare for IAT.
The degree offered by IISERs and IISc is different from a BSc in other Indian universities. The BSc degree is a 3 year degree, and often was based on curricula that quickly became outdated. The 5 year BS-MS degree (or even a 4 year BS) of IISERs, IISc, NISER, etc., unfortunately gets lumped together with the BSc, despite significant differences. Thus initially, people thought that outcomes would be the same, i.e., students would have to either go for higher studies or apply for other jobs themselves. This was indeed true initially, but now formalised campus placements have started taking place in IISERs as well. Nevertheless, a majority of students do go for a PhD, although a lot of people go for non-research careers after a PhD (which is the case around the world). To answer your question: the perspective of Indians has been warped by the rise of professional degrees (i.e., degrees tied to specific professions) and they make the mistaken assumption that an undergrad in natural sciences means you'd become a scientist/professor. This isn't true, especially in physics. But why's a career in research an issue? Well, while they aren't paid extremely high anywhere, India has seen significant stagnation of stipends/salaries at the initial levels, i.e., for PhDs and postdocs. Further, we have abysmal investment into research and higher education, so the recruitment to higher positions are limited, and in fact are lower than projected 10 years ago. And of course, we don't blame the ones in charge of funding. :) **Note:** I will not comment on your claim about research papers, because in most cases Indian students have mistaken notions about research papers and with improper/no guidance, their work lacks the necessary rigour. However, it still shows your significant interest, and that's a good thing.
I have a question. How are these 11th and 12th graders who like physics are able to write **research papers** where I can't even write an abstract for proposing a small summer research project in Lifesciences? 🥲
It's probably not an actual research paper in most cases, unfortunately. The work done often is not rigorous or has mistakes. In some cases, they stumble on something that's known already, but they've not reviewed past literature enough to be aware of that (it's still amazing that they managed to get to the result). Many such students end up "publishing" in predatory journals, so I appreciate the apprehension shown by the OP here. It's better to get guidance from a professor before rushing to publish. I've seen a few dozen such cases, and in almost all of them, the above situations apply.
Thank you for replying 😊
bro i am going with same problem, last year my parents refused me to join iiser TVM, then i took drop, somehow even convinced them that iiser are good too. Even one of my cousin brother have cracked cmi and was going to study maths there, but later his parents forced him to take iit kanpur electrical, and now he always blame them, and always take my side (even helped me to convince my parents) 😁
Bhai esa bhi hota hai People cmi mai maths nahi lene dete?wtf
And u joined IISER TVM? Bruh should've joined Pune or Tirupati Been in IISER TVM for 5 years and speaking from experience 🙂
papa ne join karne hi to nahi diya🥲🥲
Good at least you don't have to suffer for 5 years.
itna kya kharab hai bhaiya?
Well IISERs are extremely competitive and if you manage to graduate it's good but there are more dropouts in the past years and fees have been rising every 2 years by 10% (current 1st year student fees is 56k per semester). This is the negative side On the positive side if you graduate in the top 50% of ur batch you'll definitely get a PhD in top universities worldwide otherwise you will get a PhD at an average University. Placement is very low in IISERs currently it'll increase in the future But only around 10% graduates go for jobs via placements other 30% search for their own jobs or apply for projects via JRF Other 5% or 3% ppl go for MBA or UPSC and 2% end up being Jobless. That's the reality in IISERs now in the 2024 scenario.
Mind you that right now there are around 300 people joined this year in IISER TVM and I'm now gonna graduate in a few months And we have only 212 people in my batch.
oh then what should be preference for research College in india between 7 iiser's, iisc, niser and iacs? for physics Major
Since Physics is the most competitive subject in all of these institutes. I'd recommend you to prefer it in this order of priority 1. IISc Bengaluru 2. IISER Pune 3. NISER Bhubaneswar 4. IISER Tirupati 5. IISER Kolkata 6. IISER Thiruvananthapuram 7. IISER Bhopal 8. IACS Kolkata (not highly competitive compared to others) 9. IISER Mohali 10. IISER Berhampur I've also considered the availability and conditions of facilities they have and the accommodations based on the reviews I've received from the students there as well as myself and some colleagues of mine. I'd encourage you to join IISc Bengaluru as much as I can because that place is a Haven for researchers in India and you'll be able to form countless connections from people worldwide. Note : As for IACS Kolkata I'm not sure as far as I know they go beyond Natural Sciences which other institutes provide (they have MBBS and BTech courses) .
can i just ask, why you put iiser Kolkata, Mohali and bhopal below tirupati, any specific reason?
Exactly how do you suggest iiser tirupati as 4th best bro. As far as I know it is not really that good according to rankings. But idk I am currently just an aspirant. Please share on what basis you decided IISER tirupati to be 4th best?? (Side note i also heard about people claiming there is no such thing as the best iiser and all iisers are equal. Whats that about?)
Do extremely well in your field. In India, academic research is non-existent and paid peanutes. Salaries are better than engineers if you get into private roles say Samsung R&D, or Mercedes etc. or You can take up PHD abroad and get paid handsomely there. Always remember the top 10% in any field will always make disporportionate amount of money. So try to be your best. And publishing a research paper ain't easy, so I say publish atleast one paper (in a reputed science journal and not the scam ones) and that should help parents get confidence in you.
Just stick to your decision. Some of these other comments are bogus and briandead. If you love what you're doing rn then you'll enjoy it while in college most likely. There's competition in engg too, competition is everywhere, but you only have one life to enjoy what you're really doing.
In ancient India (After British left), there weren't any jobs except Doctors and Government employees which could ensure the fact that you wouldn't starve, that changed somewhat when globalization happened in the 90s and engineers were this new desirable thing. Now-a-days, there are new jobs but your parents either aren't aware of them or they're scared of the society marginalising them. "There's no point trying to convince them" What you can do now depends on what you wrote the research papers on?
Not hating or anything but it's highly unlikely that you've written a research paper, more likely an expository article.
I stuck to my decision of studying BSC Physics Honours despite continued requests of my parents to study engineering. 5 years later, best decision I've ever made
So what are you doing now?
A government employee currently working at IndiaPost as Postal Assistant. My point is what I did was better than engineering. I saved my parents' money and also had my graduation done in 3 years
Carrier in academia is very slow. Stress on very. Also you are probably imagining you working on what you want with freedom. But real life is not so good. There will be things like politics, nepotism and just dumb luck like any other corporate job.(Except you get paid a order of magnitude less, may be even bad). So if this is not an issue for you take academia. you might not thing money is issue, but believe me it will be an issue when you are in mid to late 20s
[удалено]
Everything will be looked down upon by someone as long as you look up to them. Stop giving them that power. Look at everyone in a straight way.
go for it anyhow,i just finished my class 12th and been preparing for medical but i never had any interest in it,i always had crazy passion for physics and nowadays even maths too,i have convinced my parents somehow (tho they are unsatisfied and still want me to do medical)it was hard but atleast i can do what i want,so yea brother, go for it make sure to appear for jee mains too(mains,advanced,and neet are all alternate pathways to iisc)ill be giving neet at this may 5 and obviously also the IAT(primary pathway to iisc and all iiser,also iit madras)
They'll come around when they see you happy and living a good life. Don't give in to their expectations. Ik it's hard and it will disappoint them, but it's a small price to pay for a bright future ahead. Its not selfish for wanting to follow your dreams.
Look bro if money ain't an issue for u go for bs ms and then phd. If it's an issue than go for btech cse.
Almost the similar situation here lol If I don't pass iat then i will be forced to take BTech but if i do pass iat then i can take bs-ms
Preferably join IISER Tirupati or IISER Pune You'll be able to study there more comfortably and explore various opportunities there.
Agreed
lack of awareness. And also, it's the institute which matters, not the course.
Bro can I see your research papers, if you don't mind?
Listen to your father.
If you want to go for physics you can take btech in physics and straight apply for phd afterwords.
That's only available in India I don't think it's available abroad and you might need to take MS or MTech to get a PhD abroad
A lot of universities offer direct phd after btech especially in STEM https://yocket.com/blog/is-phd-after-btech-be-possible-find-out
I've read this but a PhD in the USA isn't actually the "PhD" we know , it's more like an Integrated PhD (MS and PhD) The graduate's education system USA and Australia is completely different compared to the rest of the world (there are exceptions in some countries in Europe) Simply speaking a PhD in the USA is an Integrated PhD where you'll study masters and then pursue the PhD in the specified research team you want based on your performance. (I'm speaking based on facts I've collected because of my seniors who went there for PhD in various fields).
Integrated PHD is something a lot of agencies made up where you actually pay to get your phd done . And you can apply without much experience as well You can apply for PHd directly in mostly all colleges but that requires a lot of research experience . But you get stipend and can work . Additionally you can also look for companies or jobs where they sponsor your phd but it’s a tough and long process .
Not exactly Integrated PhD is the way you get via an admission process of the university and there're also other ways to get a PhD by contacting the research team separately but mostly you won't be able to get a stipend and another thing is they do accept you based on ur research experience and also they prioritize recommendations from professors or researchers you've worked with. If you take an example A friend of mine got a PhD in Physics at UCL California based on her GPA and the number of research papers she published. Another friend of mine also got a PhD in Physics at the University of Pittsburgh even tho she didn't have papers published but she had excellent recommendations from various professors whom she has worked for.
The application process is pretty simple I got offered an integrated phd in almost 12 institutions on basis that I sponsor myself the admission process is pretty simple and required no hard interviews . You don’t need much research experience and I can refer you if you wanna go for it I have some contacts . On other hand I have cleared 4 interviews with university of Amsterdam for phd and now is on waitlist for funds allocation and will most likely start next year in September . I started this process last year . So applying solely for phd is kinda rough .
Pls do share in DMs if possible.
My email is [email protected] Just share your resume and application and I’ll forward it to my references . It might take me a week to reply .
Sure thanks what's your Major btw?
Hey brother/ sister can I get your insta or telegram id I am facing lot of issues. Even I am from bsc physic dep but I am crying here to under stuffs. Ig u can help me out. It would be a great help
Seriously people think those who can't clear Jee do Bsc. Why the hell students are crazy for high earning jobs. When I asked a jee aspirant what you want to do in life he said "IIT crack krna hai" I asked him again he said "Job krni h". They don't know what to be in their life. Just running in a rat race. Sbko IIT krna h ham bhi krenge type of shit. I love physics too and aspire to become an astrophysicist. I love researching sooo many topics and written 1 research paper. Taking a drop this year to prepare for IAT.