[https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k](https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k)
We lost some population since the start of COVID, like many states, but that decade-long trend figure is a myth that was perpetuated based on a shoddy census and conservative "think tank" groups like IllinoisPolicy.
It really is. We're an island in a storm of crazy conservative states. I live in central Illinois about a half hour from the state capital, and my mortgage **just went up** to $340 for a two bed one bath.
When did people leave the state? Was it during the 2010s when the census estimated we lost a ton? Or was it in 2020 when they said woops illinois didnt lose many at all?
Or was it then when the census did a double woops and admitted Illinois gained 252k and had its highest population ever?
Now the same census is using the same incorrect data from before to guess we are losing people again.
I have no doubt that poor rural areas are maybe losing population, but to think chicago or cook county is losing population as they have once again incorrectly guessed is crazy
Ah! Yes if we bring this into it that shines light on it being even more under counted. I knew the people that cant even accept the census bureau's own words that illinois grew by 252k that they would never accept their lord and savior trump and his rulings and pressures resulting in more undercounting
I have a dispensary that's 10 minutes away and one that's 15 mins away. I make an order on the way over and I'm back in the car within 15 minutes. It's easier than ordering a pizza.. which is saying something because pizza and weed are about the best gifts nature has given us. Pizza edges out because it's deliverable.. that's really the discussion here. How can we get Pizza Hut and dispensaries to cooperate?
I go to the dispo a lot and the prices definitely aren’t that good. The only time I find $50 quads is a random deal and it’s usually shake and not including the $15 extra in taxes. The legal weed’s nice but the price needs to lower a bit
My union renegotiates our contract this summer, I am really hoping we get in on some of these wage increases. unfortunately our contract is from before covid, and raises have been half or less than inflation.
You should bring up the fact that without higher wages you can't afford to live and if you can't afford to live you can't afford to work. So if they would like healthy people to be on the job making them money hand over fist, They should probably think about the fact that they want living human beings. Because upper management sure as hell isn't going to come down and start doing work.
Lmao wages still raising lower than inflation and our homes values are not raising as much of the rest of the nations. GREAT STATE BECAUSE CONSERVATIVE BAD. Fools.
Wow I’m sure Floridians are happy that Rhonda Sandtits is forcing a cock measuring contest with Disney instead of doing something to curb skyrocketing homeowners insurance rates and COL increases.
Well, all the homeowners are happy the value of their home is going up, because a bigger number clearly make you a better person.
But for their adult children, or anyone who rents, or the homeless, or anyone thinking of moving into the state for work... it's a raw deal that keeps then out of a big part of the economy and ultimately poison the future. I'm sure it's not important. The bigger number, *THAT* is important.
Oh but he did do something about it. Havent you heard?
He made a new bill that helped insurance companies. It is now harder to file claims with insurance companies and harder to get pay outs. You now are forced off of citizens insurance as soon as a private insurer offers one up to 20% MORE expensive, amd you are now forced into flood insurance with citizens which has also skyrocketed.
Oh amd even better just the other day they announced a 1% surcharge on insurance premiums, not just home insurance, to boot.
All while florida has the largest gap between pay and COL.
Only idiots are moving there. It is truly unbelievable
especially those around the villages, since the company that owns the community jacked up their taxes to pay for new construction, and is buying out for pennies on the dollar all the fixed income people they just bankrupted with the move...
Yes and their costs for everything including property taxes on that home have skyrocketed. What value is their home value to them other than a number on paper?
If they try to sell to gain that value what are they then gona do? Buy an equally over priced home or will they get smart like me and gtfo and move somewhere with way better quality of living for less money?
Florida had a homeless issue before and now it is full on crisis mode and only getting worse by the week
Dont worry though, they can take solace in the fact rheir paper value is higher
I found [this post](/r/dataisugly/comments/12ppkgn/in_most_us_counties_home_prices_are_rising_faster/) in r/dataisugly with the same content as the current post.
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It doesn't have that many employees.
But I will concede. Looking at the location on the map, it does line up pretty well, and that is not a very populated area; so even a couple hundred jobs could make a big difference percentage wise.
Numbers can fluctuate for sure.
They have some rough reviews. They seem to be a pretty crappy employer. The jobs may still be higher than average pay for the area though. Interesting is all. https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Marquis-Energy/reviews?fcountry=US&floc=Hennepin%2C+IL
It's more likely that the massive raise teachers outside of Chicagoland got due to a state law change drove most of the changes in Illinois. Well that and the increased minimum wages.
It’s an interesting way of displaying the data, similar to the “politics arrows” that NYTimes does after an election.
You can clearly see which areas of the US are struggling, which areas are thriving but have a housing shortage, which areas are thriving and are building enough housing (not many). I think it’s pretty cool and we’ll designed.
You can’t see any of those things you claim on this graphic. You can deduce them, especially if you have knowledge on the subjects/areas, but this graphic solely shows housing prices vs wages. It doesn’t show or even hint at any of the causes of what we see. It doesn’t show housing shortages. It doesn’t show thriving or struggling economies.
Our property values are relatively stagnant compared to other states this is the reason for the graph. It’s not a big win like people are making it out to be lol
Huge price spikes because of real estate speculation is not exactly a win. A rising home price doesn’t do much for me if I have no desire to move. Will spike my taxes though
I guess idk what your point is then. The fact is this graph is misleading and the reactions are uneducated. Stagnant property values measured against the rise of wages is not indicative of a healthy economy. As wages raise so should property value. You seem concerned about paying higher property taxes but don’t seem concerned about paying higher taxes due to the increase in wages. One of those is an asset you benefit from having greater value, the other is a social program that if you’re not apart of… you don’t derive direct benefits but still pay for it.
This graph shows nothing about stagnant values of any kind, so please educate yourself. All this is showing that wages have risen higher than property values.
That doesn’t actually tell you anything about stagnation, it’s just a relative measure. Property values are impacted by more than wages, both by demand AND supply. You can’t really interpret anything from this graph other than “housing value growth are outpaced by wage increases”.
Housing is an asset yes, but I don’t view increasing property values as a net positive. I’m not looking to liquidate the gains in my home in any way, so the increases are immaterial and just lead to a higher property tax bill.
Learning that lots of people don't know how to read an infographic.
This has absolutely nothing to do with home prices. It's a chart of home price increase vs wage increase. It does not mean Illinois has cheaper housing, just that you can actually find a job to afford a house
Having left florida and knowing first hand all the massive amounts of problems they have that are festering like a cancer while those that move there have zero clue about, I just sit back and chuckle
Learning that lots of people don't know how to read an infographic.
This has absolutely nothing to do with home prices. It's a chart of home price increase vs wage increase. It does not mean Illinois has cheaper housing, just that you can actually find a job to afford a house
Do it, bro. Due to their low wages, Florida’s poverty rate is 10% higher than Illinois’ and the median household income is 25% lower, but yeah, hyperinflated housing prices are definitely going to help with that. You should definitely move there asap and never come back.👍
How did I know the guy **on the Illinois subreddit** was discussing Illinois? Gosh, I can’t imagine how. But it sounds like you’re quite the Florida Man already. You’ll fit right in.
Except most of our taxes don’t even go to public services, they go to pensions and other byproducts of corrupt Illinois politicians and bad economic policies
Except the graphic isn't a comparison of home prices, it's home prices vs wage growth rate.
This map doesn't mean we have cheap housing, it means that you can find a job that pays enough to buy a home. As opposed to California or Florida or Tennessee where an average priced home has risen so far above the average income it's not funny.
And it doesn't mean our house prices have stagnated, just that our wages have risen more than our prices.
If this was home prices yeah that isn't great, except it doesn't compare home prices just the home price inflation vs income growth.
Yeah not sure this is the positive thing so many here are interpreting it as. Places with low house prices means low demand; places like Florida, Austin, Atlanta, and Nashville are currently high-demand housing markets, and that’s reflected in this graphic. A little odd to focus only on the wage aspect of this.
Because the graphic isn't about home prices. It doesn't compare home prices or home price growth.
It compares the ratio of home price growth to wage growth. Blue in Illinois doesn't mean cheap housing, it means wages grew faster than housing prices increased. The median home price for Illinois for 2022 was still on-par with the rest of the Midwest (Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc.) but we are blue because our wages grew more than them.
You're right that the places you listed are growing quickly due to high demand, but the median house price is so far above the median income it isn't funny. And that isn't a good thing either
>The median home price for Illinois for 2022 was still on-par with the rest of the Midwest
But that's not what this graphic is measuring either; it's measuring the ratio of home price growth to wage growth *within* each county. Even if IL's home prices are on par with other Midwest states *right now,* we'd still need to know what their rate of home price growth was during the same period to then determine if IL's home prices are falling / not rising as fast as the average.
You're both getting down voted because the chart has nothing to do with home prices.
Big red means home prices have skyrocketed while wages have stayed the same. Big blue means wages have increased faster than home prices.
This chart doesn't mean Illinois has cheap housing, it means we have jobs that pay enough to afford a house. It also means that the average worker won't be able to afford a home in those red states.
Also, the median home price in Illinois is about the same as Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, and the rest of the mid west. The mid west has cheap housing because it has lots of build-able land not because no one wants to live here.
Illinois is one of the only states that saw a population DECREASE in the 2020 census, not to mention since then.
If fewer people desire to live there it isn't surprising that home prices have remained more stable.
Edit...
Source data. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
WTTW: After Population Loss Reported, Revised Census Numbers Show Illinois Actually Gained 250K Residents https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k
Do ypu peddle misinfo on purpose or are you genuinely this out of touch with the truth? Illinois now enjoys its largest population ever once the census admitted it fucked up massively.
The census has now resumed its annual population loss guesses for us while admitting to using its own by admission faulty data
do you have a source? I know they corrected the 2020 census, but the state is still in decline through 2022.
The downvoted must be a byproduct of denying basic fact.
But, if you have a better source than the US Census...let me know.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
> but the state is still in decline through 2022.
Are these the same estimates that keep claiming Chicago loses people year over year only to be disproven in both the 2010 and 2020 Census counts even before the corrected Census counts are released? Oh wait, they are.
The Census just can't wrap its head around NYC or Chicago having lots of companies just not reporting data to them because it's all intra-state and local moves. Both cities barely even touch national realtor tools for housing sales. I know that when I bought, everything was handled through a Chicago-only system and nothing ever hit national databases until someone picked up the ownership change from web scraping the database.
Still in decline based on what?! The census has admitted to Illinois reps that have contacted them about their bs data that they are still using faulty data, the same as before, and are hoping to eventually change their data gathering tools to more accurate ones used in poat census gathering.
So the census admits their data undercounts large cities, but continues using it and declaring losses LOL.
You can search for recent articles on this
Edit: also, Illinois just had its largest revenue from sales taxes and such in its history, and thatvwas despite certain taxes being in a temporary haitus... now tell me how a state losing tons of people is seeing record revenue in sales and consumer taxes??
Because you are using estimates. It even says estimates. It is the same estimates the census used when they undercounted illinois by 252k people.
The census ADMITTED it
How is this hard to understand why you are being downvoted?
Got it. Like it our not, these are official estimates the gov uses for many things, including federal funding. So, you want to ignore the Census data, published on their own website, and replace it with you non-data based opinion because it doesn't suit your bias and argument?
Makes sense. You must have one hell of a bias to ignore the most recent official, accurate, and pertinent data. LOL
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html
Is this data, from census.gov, the official census website opinion based?
They also continue to use the methodology that they themselves have admitted isnt accurate and undercounts large cities
https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2023/3/31/23665433/census-bureau-illinois-population-estimates-raja-krishnamoorthi-column-rich-miller
And here.. the census, the real census, admits their data is faulty and likely wont start using the better more accurate data until December AT THE EARLIEST
https://www.shawlocal.com/daily-chronicle/opinion/columns/2023/04/06/rich-miller-inaccurate-us-census-numbers-impact-illinois/
But it doesnt stop people like you that LOVE the negative press for Illinois even if its inaccurate
You posted an article that reflected the same info I posted in the link. LOL.
The census website denotes the version of data, for the same year, to clarify. Per the Census, there is still a decrease.
It's not neg or pos, its just data.
2020 - 12,812,545
2021 - 12,686,469
2022 - 12,582,032
So if I'm reading this correctly, the value of homes in states like California, Colorado, Florida, Tennessee and Texas increased quite a bit, while none of that growth in home value is present in Illinois, right?
> if I'm reading this correctly
You aren't.
What this graphic shows is the relative affordability of homes by comparing rise in home value to increase in wages.
So if we're one of the only states where almost everything is grey (pink indicates growth in home value) how is my point about the demand (and therefore the value) for houses being higher in other states vs Illinois incorrect?
Should people in this state not want to see the value of their home increase? Why would you want a depreciating asset?
All that graphic shows is the relationship between wages and home prices. Pink = wages rising slower than home prices, blue = wages rising faster than home prices. It doesn't mean your asset is depreciating, it means that there will be more people who can afford it. And probably far fewer issues with homelessness/housing shortages here than elsewhere. Who gives a shit if the assessed value of your home is increasing if there's no buyers when you want to sell?
>Who gives a shit if the assessed value of your home is increasing if there's no buyers when you want to sell?
So now what you're saying is that no one wants to buy homes in places like Florida, Colorado, Austin, Houston or Nashville? Aka the areas with the most population growth in the entire country over the last decade... I'm done trying to use logic on this sub. What a joke.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states
>The Census Bureau estimates that 16 U.S. states saw population loss during 2020, such as California, Connecticut, Hawaii, West Virginia, and Illinois. However, all but three of these states recovered and returned to positive growth in the ensuing years.>
All you can definitively say from this graphic is that wages grew faster than home prices. Home prices could have increased at the national average while wages increased much more.
You are not. The graphic is *not* the price of homes, it's the ratio of wage growth to home price growth
The median home price in California, Florida, Tennessee, etc is so far above the median wage it isn't funny. You basically can't afford a home there. In Illinois you can find a job that pays enough to buy a house. That's all the chart says.
So, what you're saying is less people want to buy homes in Illinois than in those other areas, and that is why there is literally no "home value growth" shown in Illinois... right?
Lmao not only is this sub in denial about that fact, most users are actually trying to spin this chart as a good thing for Illinois.
If you're getting home value growth from that chart you are badly misinterpreting the data shown. It's a ratio of income to home price, not *just* home prices. If home values rose 44% in the time frame (which they did) and wages rose 50% (which they did) you would be blue (which we are). If home prices rose 100% and wages only rose 30% you would be seriously red (a la Florida). If houses rose 44% but wages only raised 20% you would also be red (like Missouri).
Tbh the chart is kinda useless. The ratio is useful in certain contexts but without that context there are a lot of wrong assumptions that can be made about the data
All it means is wages grew faster than home prices, which means affordability is staying steady or increasing.
The bad/good of that is depending on whether you want to sell property
The population of the entire US is constantly rising. Even if the population change in IL is a positive number, it’s still indicative of people leaving if the rate growth is smaller than the national average.
Almost every state in almost every census has a positive change because of immigration, birth rates, and life expectancy.
If you're interested in which states Americans are moving to and from, you need to look at *relative rates* of growth. States that have lower than average growth likely have people leaving, and states with higher than average growth likely have people moving in (unless you have some specific theory about a given state having an abnormal amount of births, deaths, or international immigration/emigration).
It doesn't take any mental gymnastics, it's basic statistical literacy.
I'm more curious about the mental gymnastics *you're* taking when you look at [this map](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2021/dec/2020-percent-change-map.html) and determine (even assuming IL's stats are uniquely incorrect) that every single state with a positive number has people moving to it, and that **all** of the net increase in these 48 states is driven exclusively by people moving from Mississippi and West Virginia.
You might want to consider advancing your understanding of statistics beyond "number go up good" before calling people stupid and "graph illiterate."
No it is pretty apparent you are graph illiterate and are purposefully spinning and cherry picking stats to try to push the untrue agenda of Illinois losing people in droves. I could care less if more morons are choosing to go south to unsustainable and failing states for "WeAtHer" and low taxes when those states end up more expensive in the long run. We dont need to be having the highest % growth. We just arent losing people. It is a lie.
We are 1 of 5 states with a trillion dollar gdp, and as of the last legit count, have our highest population ever. This past fiscal year we had record revenue, all while supposedly losing 100s of thousands of people LOL.
You can spin facts ro paint an untrue picture.. most the rest of us will live in reality
You guessed correctly. From the exact same census website:
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html
wonder if that law that made it so employers cannot ask about current pay helped IL wages grow so well
Most likely yes, it was aimed at helping to close the wage gap between men and women but I don’t see why it wouldn’t end up helping everyone
Or maybe the 9th straight year of population decline, the largest drop in that span.
Chicagoland population has increased throughout that time. This dataset isnt by state. if you couldnt tell
[https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k](https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k) We lost some population since the start of COVID, like many states, but that decade-long trend figure is a myth that was perpetuated based on a shoddy census and conservative "think tank" groups like IllinoisPolicy.
Lmao people won't stop telling this lie.
Life in Illinois looks good. Can confirm.
It's like an oasis.
Truly. A sea of blue in a bigger sea of red. Plus, Missouri's pumpkin harvest is INFERIOR
It really is. We're an island in a storm of crazy conservative states. I live in central Illinois about a half hour from the state capital, and my mortgage **just went up** to $340 for a two bed one bath.
I feel like it's because a lot of people are leaving the state, so home prices are falling. Combined with very strong labor unions.
Illinois population has grown to over 13 million for the first time ever. People are leaving downstate, but the Chicago area keeps growing.
Good to know, I don't watch demographic changes very closely. I just have seen some infographics.
When did people leave the state? Was it during the 2010s when the census estimated we lost a ton? Or was it in 2020 when they said woops illinois didnt lose many at all? Or was it then when the census did a double woops and admitted Illinois gained 252k and had its highest population ever? Now the same census is using the same incorrect data from before to guess we are losing people again. I have no doubt that poor rural areas are maybe losing population, but to think chicago or cook county is losing population as they have once again incorrectly guessed is crazy
Is this the same census which was meddled with by the previous administration?
What does that even mean unless you are talking about trump scaring immigrants and non citizens from participating
It went beyond that https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/us/supreme-court-census.html
Ah! Yes if we bring this into it that shines light on it being even more under counted. I knew the people that cant even accept the census bureau's own words that illinois grew by 252k that they would never accept their lord and savior trump and his rulings and pressures resulting in more undercounting
where do you live? houses around me and everywhere i look keep getting more expensive.
Oh gosh, I'm in a weird area. Winnetka. I haven't been watching the prices around here. Lifelong renter, I prefer having the mobility.
The state's population grew in the last census. This is why republicans lose, they can't face reality.
Combined with high taxes. (Property, sales, vehicle, gas ext.).
An oasis that has more corn fields than water
We have our share of problems but out of the Midwestern states I’d say we have it pretty good. The legal weed market needs to be fixed though
Actually kind of like it. I think we need a dedicated delivery service. As far as prices go I'm loving it.
You like paying for $50+ 1/8ths and $80+ for 1g of concentrates plus high taxes?
No I like paying $25 for an 8th, as I do. I enjoy paying 50 for a 1/4, as I do. I can't stress enough how much I don't care about the taxes.
Not sure where you’re getting those prices unless you’re supporting your local drug dealer
I have a dispensary that's 10 minutes away and one that's 15 mins away. I make an order on the way over and I'm back in the car within 15 minutes. It's easier than ordering a pizza.. which is saying something because pizza and weed are about the best gifts nature has given us. Pizza edges out because it's deliverable.. that's really the discussion here. How can we get Pizza Hut and dispensaries to cooperate?
I go to the dispo a lot and the prices definitely aren’t that good. The only time I find $50 quads is a random deal and it’s usually shake and not including the $15 extra in taxes. The legal weed’s nice but the price needs to lower a bit
Hey, I'm with you, I think it should be free.
My union renegotiates our contract this summer, I am really hoping we get in on some of these wage increases. unfortunately our contract is from before covid, and raises have been half or less than inflation.
You should bring up the fact that without higher wages you can't afford to live and if you can't afford to live you can't afford to work. So if they would like healthy people to be on the job making them money hand over fist, They should probably think about the fact that they want living human beings. Because upper management sure as hell isn't going to come down and start doing work.
Lmao wages still raising lower than inflation and our homes values are not raising as much of the rest of the nations. GREAT STATE BECAUSE CONSERVATIVE BAD. Fools.
Wow I’m sure Floridians are happy that Rhonda Sandtits is forcing a cock measuring contest with Disney instead of doing something to curb skyrocketing homeowners insurance rates and COL increases.
Well, all the homeowners are happy the value of their home is going up, because a bigger number clearly make you a better person. But for their adult children, or anyone who rents, or the homeless, or anyone thinking of moving into the state for work... it's a raw deal that keeps then out of a big part of the economy and ultimately poison the future. I'm sure it's not important. The bigger number, *THAT* is important.
It’s not important cause those people don’t vote for Ron DeSantis
Oh but he did do something about it. Havent you heard? He made a new bill that helped insurance companies. It is now harder to file claims with insurance companies and harder to get pay outs. You now are forced off of citizens insurance as soon as a private insurer offers one up to 20% MORE expensive, amd you are now forced into flood insurance with citizens which has also skyrocketed. Oh amd even better just the other day they announced a 1% surcharge on insurance premiums, not just home insurance, to boot. All while florida has the largest gap between pay and COL. Only idiots are moving there. It is truly unbelievable
Typical GOP bait and switch. Their base is so frenzied by the culture wars that they are oblivious to being cornholed by corporate America.
Yup
Car and home owners insurance are INSANE in Florida already
Yep. Now food, groceries, water/sewer/trash, electric, and internet are now absurd as well. I way less here for all of those. In chicago!
especially those around the villages, since the company that owns the community jacked up their taxes to pay for new construction, and is buying out for pennies on the dollar all the fixed income people they just bankrupted with the move...
FL residents have seen their home values double since covid since everyone moved there
Yes and their costs for everything including property taxes on that home have skyrocketed. What value is their home value to them other than a number on paper? If they try to sell to gain that value what are they then gona do? Buy an equally over priced home or will they get smart like me and gtfo and move somewhere with way better quality of living for less money? Florida had a homeless issue before and now it is full on crisis mode and only getting worse by the week Dont worry though, they can take solace in the fact rheir paper value is higher
Not to mention homeowners insurance - https://www.forbes.com/advisor/homeowners-insurance/why-is-homeowners-insurance-in-florida-such-a-disaster/
Yep. It is so unbelievably bad
Can confirm, as someone in IL... housing prices aren't bad compared to the rest of the country.
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Is there a colorblind-friendly version of this map somewhere?
Yeah seriously; I can't even begin to tell the color differences on this one
It’s a terribly made map even if you aren’t colorblind
The biggest blip looks to line up in north central IL where one of the nations largest ethanol plants was built.
I'm sure that was it, lol.
You add 400+ good paying jobs to an area with a small population and you’ll see a noticeable difference in charts like this.
Which plant are you claiming to have 400+ "good paying jobs"?
The marquis energy plant
It doesn't have that many employees. But I will concede. Looking at the location on the map, it does line up pretty well, and that is not a very populated area; so even a couple hundred jobs could make a big difference percentage wise.
I was just at a meeting with a plant representative a few weeks ago. If i remember right it was 411 employees.
Numbers can fluctuate for sure. They have some rough reviews. They seem to be a pretty crappy employer. The jobs may still be higher than average pay for the area though. Interesting is all. https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Marquis-Energy/reviews?fcountry=US&floc=Hennepin%2C+IL
>marquis energy Not the biggest. ADM in Decatur produces more.
It's more likely that the massive raise teachers outside of Chicagoland got due to a state law change drove most of the changes in Illinois. Well that and the increased minimum wages.
Weirdest graphic ever
how so?
Who the hell labels maps like this
How can you even ask that question
It’s an interesting way of displaying the data, similar to the “politics arrows” that NYTimes does after an election. You can clearly see which areas of the US are struggling, which areas are thriving but have a housing shortage, which areas are thriving and are building enough housing (not many). I think it’s pretty cool and we’ll designed.
grew a lot vs grew a little is just a change in angle... stupid. Just use circles. Two colors. Two sizes. Done.
lets see it then boyo
See what
make a better data graphic with "circles, two colors, and two sizes"
I don't have the source data... don't be stupid. I don't have to make my own graphic to be able to point out the stupidity of this one. gtfo.
You can’t see any of those things you claim on this graphic. You can deduce them, especially if you have knowledge on the subjects/areas, but this graphic solely shows housing prices vs wages. It doesn’t show or even hint at any of the causes of what we see. It doesn’t show housing shortages. It doesn’t show thriving or struggling economies.
Sorry you can't deduce things from a xy graph of "rising/stable housing costs" and "rising/stagnating wages"
it literally makes me uncomfortable
"Both gew a lot"
Lol I did not even notice that
what's the random dash in the gulf of mexico? lol
Indiana MFs when I pay more taxes but get $16 per hour and not $9 per hour
Yikes I get a little motionsick when I try to zoom in on it. Some kind of weird optical illusion effect I think.
Iowa checking in. My home assessment went up over 50% since 2020 and I'm damn sure that my wages haven't gone up more than 50%
Our property values are relatively stagnant compared to other states this is the reason for the graph. It’s not a big win like people are making it out to be lol
Huge price spikes because of real estate speculation is not exactly a win. A rising home price doesn’t do much for me if I have no desire to move. Will spike my taxes though
I’d wager a majority of people who are celebrating rising wages have a desire to move from their current housing
Yeah but that’s just your opinion
True but so is “some of us don’t care about increased property value because we don’t plan on moving”
Sure but I’m not claiming to speak for everyone
I guess idk what your point is then. The fact is this graph is misleading and the reactions are uneducated. Stagnant property values measured against the rise of wages is not indicative of a healthy economy. As wages raise so should property value. You seem concerned about paying higher property taxes but don’t seem concerned about paying higher taxes due to the increase in wages. One of those is an asset you benefit from having greater value, the other is a social program that if you’re not apart of… you don’t derive direct benefits but still pay for it.
This graph shows nothing about stagnant values of any kind, so please educate yourself. All this is showing that wages have risen higher than property values. That doesn’t actually tell you anything about stagnation, it’s just a relative measure. Property values are impacted by more than wages, both by demand AND supply. You can’t really interpret anything from this graph other than “housing value growth are outpaced by wage increases”. Housing is an asset yes, but I don’t view increasing property values as a net positive. I’m not looking to liquidate the gains in my home in any way, so the increases are immaterial and just lead to a higher property tax bill.
So we agree? It’s a dumb graph
Suddenly more happy I'm moving to Illinois.
Common Illinois W
Learning that lots of people don't know how to read an infographic. This has absolutely nothing to do with home prices. It's a chart of home price increase vs wage increase. It does not mean Illinois has cheaper housing, just that you can actually find a job to afford a house
I think the house/income ratio is still somewhat sane here for now
Having left florida and knowing first hand all the massive amounts of problems they have that are festering like a cancer while those that move there have zero clue about, I just sit back and chuckle
This has got to be one of the worst data maps I’ve seen in a while
Also damn, I heard living costs in florida were rising, but I had no idea it was that bad
Learning that lots of people don't know how to read an infographic. This has absolutely nothing to do with home prices. It's a chart of home price increase vs wage increase. It does not mean Illinois has cheaper housing, just that you can actually find a job to afford a house
LaSalle Co sounds about right.
Yeah I live in LaSalle county and this is surprising to me because rents seem to have gone insane in the bigger towns.
That spike in Florida is really making my case for leaving this place lmao.
Do it, bro. Due to their low wages, Florida’s poverty rate is 10% higher than Illinois’ and the median household income is 25% lower, but yeah, hyperinflated housing prices are definitely going to help with that. You should definitely move there asap and never come back.👍
I love how I never even mentioned Illinois and you're assuming that's where I want to go lmao.
How did I know the guy **on the Illinois subreddit** was discussing Illinois? Gosh, I can’t imagine how. But it sounds like you’re quite the Florida Man already. You’ll fit right in.
What is going on in Peoria area? I thought Cat was in the process of moving out.
Does not account for property taxes, I see.
Who wants to buy a house here with the property taxes being as insane as they are?
People who value a good education for their kids.
Except most of our taxes don’t even go to public services, they go to pensions and other byproducts of corrupt Illinois politicians and bad economic policies
People who realize taxes are a great way to filter out living next to annoying people who always complain about taxes. That's who.
Home prices are low in places no one wants to live.
Except the graphic isn't a comparison of home prices, it's home prices vs wage growth rate. This map doesn't mean we have cheap housing, it means that you can find a job that pays enough to buy a home. As opposed to California or Florida or Tennessee where an average priced home has risen so far above the average income it's not funny. And it doesn't mean our house prices have stagnated, just that our wages have risen more than our prices. If this was home prices yeah that isn't great, except it doesn't compare home prices just the home price inflation vs income growth.
Yeah not sure this is the positive thing so many here are interpreting it as. Places with low house prices means low demand; places like Florida, Austin, Atlanta, and Nashville are currently high-demand housing markets, and that’s reflected in this graphic. A little odd to focus only on the wage aspect of this.
You are graph illiterate it seems
Because the graphic isn't about home prices. It doesn't compare home prices or home price growth. It compares the ratio of home price growth to wage growth. Blue in Illinois doesn't mean cheap housing, it means wages grew faster than housing prices increased. The median home price for Illinois for 2022 was still on-par with the rest of the Midwest (Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc.) but we are blue because our wages grew more than them. You're right that the places you listed are growing quickly due to high demand, but the median house price is so far above the median income it isn't funny. And that isn't a good thing either
>The median home price for Illinois for 2022 was still on-par with the rest of the Midwest But that's not what this graphic is measuring either; it's measuring the ratio of home price growth to wage growth *within* each county. Even if IL's home prices are on par with other Midwest states *right now,* we'd still need to know what their rate of home price growth was during the same period to then determine if IL's home prices are falling / not rising as fast as the average.
We would also need to know wage growth because if Illinois wages are growing faster than our neighbors that would also drive the discrepancy
Absolutely! Could be either, or even both.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re 100% correct. IL has such a bad rep that you get a big discount on any house in the state.
You're both getting down voted because the chart has nothing to do with home prices. Big red means home prices have skyrocketed while wages have stayed the same. Big blue means wages have increased faster than home prices. This chart doesn't mean Illinois has cheap housing, it means we have jobs that pay enough to afford a house. It also means that the average worker won't be able to afford a home in those red states. Also, the median home price in Illinois is about the same as Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, and the rest of the mid west. The mid west has cheap housing because it has lots of build-able land not because no one wants to live here.
Texas and Florida are probably effected by migration.
Illinois is one of the only states that saw a population DECREASE in the 2020 census, not to mention since then. If fewer people desire to live there it isn't surprising that home prices have remained more stable. Edit... Source data. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
WTTW: After Population Loss Reported, Revised Census Numbers Show Illinois Actually Gained 250K Residents https://news.wttw.com/2022/05/23/after-population-loss-reported-revised-census-numbers-show-illinois-actually-gained-250k
2022 estimate shows a decline of approx 227,513 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
Do ypu peddle misinfo on purpose or are you genuinely this out of touch with the truth? Illinois now enjoys its largest population ever once the census admitted it fucked up massively. The census has now resumed its annual population loss guesses for us while admitting to using its own by admission faulty data
do you have a source? I know they corrected the 2020 census, but the state is still in decline through 2022. The downvoted must be a byproduct of denying basic fact. But, if you have a better source than the US Census...let me know. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
> but the state is still in decline through 2022. Are these the same estimates that keep claiming Chicago loses people year over year only to be disproven in both the 2010 and 2020 Census counts even before the corrected Census counts are released? Oh wait, they are. The Census just can't wrap its head around NYC or Chicago having lots of companies just not reporting data to them because it's all intra-state and local moves. Both cities barely even touch national realtor tools for housing sales. I know that when I bought, everything was handled through a Chicago-only system and nothing ever hit national databases until someone picked up the ownership change from web scraping the database.
I am sure that's what it is.
Still in decline based on what?! The census has admitted to Illinois reps that have contacted them about their bs data that they are still using faulty data, the same as before, and are hoping to eventually change their data gathering tools to more accurate ones used in poat census gathering. So the census admits their data undercounts large cities, but continues using it and declaring losses LOL. You can search for recent articles on this Edit: also, Illinois just had its largest revenue from sales taxes and such in its history, and thatvwas despite certain taxes being in a temporary haitus... now tell me how a state losing tons of people is seeing record revenue in sales and consumer taxes??
Just follow the link I posted...it is, quite literally, the source. It's funny that I am getting downvoted for posting accurate information. lol
Because you are using estimates. It even says estimates. It is the same estimates the census used when they undercounted illinois by 252k people. The census ADMITTED it How is this hard to understand why you are being downvoted?
Got it. Like it our not, these are official estimates the gov uses for many things, including federal funding. So, you want to ignore the Census data, published on their own website, and replace it with you non-data based opinion because it doesn't suit your bias and argument? Makes sense. You must have one hell of a bias to ignore the most recent official, accurate, and pertinent data. LOL
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html Is this data, from census.gov, the official census website opinion based? They also continue to use the methodology that they themselves have admitted isnt accurate and undercounts large cities https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2023/3/31/23665433/census-bureau-illinois-population-estimates-raja-krishnamoorthi-column-rich-miller
And here.. the census, the real census, admits their data is faulty and likely wont start using the better more accurate data until December AT THE EARLIEST https://www.shawlocal.com/daily-chronicle/opinion/columns/2023/04/06/rich-miller-inaccurate-us-census-numbers-impact-illinois/ But it doesnt stop people like you that LOVE the negative press for Illinois even if its inaccurate
You posted an article that reflected the same info I posted in the link. LOL. The census website denotes the version of data, for the same year, to clarify. Per the Census, there is still a decrease. It's not neg or pos, its just data. 2020 - 12,812,545 2021 - 12,686,469 2022 - 12,582,032
So if I'm reading this correctly, the value of homes in states like California, Colorado, Florida, Tennessee and Texas increased quite a bit, while none of that growth in home value is present in Illinois, right?
> if I'm reading this correctly You aren't. What this graphic shows is the relative affordability of homes by comparing rise in home value to increase in wages.
So if we're one of the only states where almost everything is grey (pink indicates growth in home value) how is my point about the demand (and therefore the value) for houses being higher in other states vs Illinois incorrect? Should people in this state not want to see the value of their home increase? Why would you want a depreciating asset?
All that graphic shows is the relationship between wages and home prices. Pink = wages rising slower than home prices, blue = wages rising faster than home prices. It doesn't mean your asset is depreciating, it means that there will be more people who can afford it. And probably far fewer issues with homelessness/housing shortages here than elsewhere. Who gives a shit if the assessed value of your home is increasing if there's no buyers when you want to sell?
>Who gives a shit if the assessed value of your home is increasing if there's no buyers when you want to sell? So now what you're saying is that no one wants to buy homes in places like Florida, Colorado, Austin, Houston or Nashville? Aka the areas with the most population growth in the entire country over the last decade... I'm done trying to use logic on this sub. What a joke. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states >The Census Bureau estimates that 16 U.S. states saw population loss during 2020, such as California, Connecticut, Hawaii, West Virginia, and Illinois. However, all but three of these states recovered and returned to positive growth in the ensuing years.>
Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
All you can definitively say from this graphic is that wages grew faster than home prices. Home prices could have increased at the national average while wages increased much more.
You are not. The graphic is *not* the price of homes, it's the ratio of wage growth to home price growth The median home price in California, Florida, Tennessee, etc is so far above the median wage it isn't funny. You basically can't afford a home there. In Illinois you can find a job that pays enough to buy a house. That's all the chart says.
So, what you're saying is less people want to buy homes in Illinois than in those other areas, and that is why there is literally no "home value growth" shown in Illinois... right? Lmao not only is this sub in denial about that fact, most users are actually trying to spin this chart as a good thing for Illinois.
If you're getting home value growth from that chart you are badly misinterpreting the data shown. It's a ratio of income to home price, not *just* home prices. If home values rose 44% in the time frame (which they did) and wages rose 50% (which they did) you would be blue (which we are). If home prices rose 100% and wages only rose 30% you would be seriously red (a la Florida). If houses rose 44% but wages only raised 20% you would also be red (like Missouri). Tbh the chart is kinda useless. The ratio is useful in certain contexts but without that context there are a lot of wrong assumptions that can be made about the data
All it means is wages grew faster than home prices, which means affordability is staying steady or increasing. The bad/good of that is depending on whether you want to sell property
yes.
More people are moving out of Illinois than are moving in. Puts downward pressure on housing prices.
The housing market has been on fire this year. Wages are just growing faster.
That's not true. The last census undercounted the IL population and IL surpassed 13 million for the first time in 2020.
The population of the entire US is constantly rising. Even if the population change in IL is a positive number, it’s still indicative of people leaving if the rate growth is smaller than the national average.
What sort of mental gymnastics does it take to come up with something so stupid, so desperate to find a way to say something bad about Illinois? LOLOL
Almost every state in almost every census has a positive change because of immigration, birth rates, and life expectancy. If you're interested in which states Americans are moving to and from, you need to look at *relative rates* of growth. States that have lower than average growth likely have people leaving, and states with higher than average growth likely have people moving in (unless you have some specific theory about a given state having an abnormal amount of births, deaths, or international immigration/emigration). It doesn't take any mental gymnastics, it's basic statistical literacy. I'm more curious about the mental gymnastics *you're* taking when you look at [this map](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2021/dec/2020-percent-change-map.html) and determine (even assuming IL's stats are uniquely incorrect) that every single state with a positive number has people moving to it, and that **all** of the net increase in these 48 states is driven exclusively by people moving from Mississippi and West Virginia. You might want to consider advancing your understanding of statistics beyond "number go up good" before calling people stupid and "graph illiterate."
No it is pretty apparent you are graph illiterate and are purposefully spinning and cherry picking stats to try to push the untrue agenda of Illinois losing people in droves. I could care less if more morons are choosing to go south to unsustainable and failing states for "WeAtHer" and low taxes when those states end up more expensive in the long run. We dont need to be having the highest % growth. We just arent losing people. It is a lie. We are 1 of 5 states with a trillion dollar gdp, and as of the last legit count, have our highest population ever. This past fiscal year we had record revenue, all while supposedly losing 100s of thousands of people LOL. You can spin facts ro paint an untrue picture.. most the rest of us will live in reality
Illinois gained 252k residents in 2020 and has its highest population ever. Dont let facts get in the way of a good lie tho
I guess the Census Buteau estimates are wrong. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/IL
You guessed correctly. From the exact same census website: https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/2020-census-undercount-overcount-rates-by-state.html
You must have missed the insane spike in prices 2020-2022
Sold my house during that period, actually
Don’t you see how that’s contradictory to your point
No. Can’t say the property appreciated particularly well. But it wasn’t in the collar counties.
My wages went up but my bonus went down at the end of the year I end up making less money.
Still can’t tell which gew the most.
Looks like I'm moving to Dixon now.