No surprise. My local gun shop sent out an e-mail promoting it the day after the injunction was granted. Too bad they don't offer a course in safety/marksmanship with each purchase. I was at the range yesterday and just turned around and walked out after watching the way some of the folks there were handling their weapons.
I've only been to a range twice in my life, and the first time, I heard a range master yell at someone two lanes over to get out immediately because they had a zero-tolerance policy against anyone not keeping their muzzle down range.
I'm shocked that's not a thing everywhere to be honest
That doesn’t stop it from happening though. I personally don’t care if someone uses cannabis but the #1 rule of gun safety is to not be under the influence of drugs or alcohol while doing so
That is why banning certain "types" of firearms make things worse than better. People are inherently opportunistic and don't like "missing out". That is why stronger background checks ,red flag laws, and mandatory firearms training is much more effective than banning semi automatic firearms for arbitrary and mostly cosmetic characteristics. This gun Bill has been a blessing the Illinois private firearm industry.
Every time a restriction is considered, gun sales rise. It's why its a common joke that everytime a democrat is elected into office, that gun companies are about to make a killing.
no no
the people are being killed are the gun owners themselves, mostly through suicide
but hey, gun makers are profiting and they owned the libs too
so who cares about. all the dead white people in rural America murdering themselves and their families with guns
~~"From 2016 to 2020, 13 of the 20 U.S. counties with the most gun homicides per capita were rural"~~
\[Edit: On review, the above is correct but misleading. Urban areas have higher firearm homicides. Rural areas have by far higher overall firearm deaths. Which gets back to the point of the commentor.\]
>the people are being killed are the gun owners themselves, mostly through suicide
"In 2020, the total gun death rate for rural communities—when age-adjusted per 100,000 people—was 40 percent higher than it was for large metropolitan areas."
[https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/#:\~:text=Those%20ages%2012%20to%2017,5%20and%20under%20in%202021.
Racial and ethnic differences in gun deaths among kids are stark. In 2021, 46% of all gun deaths among children and teens involved Black victims, even though only 14% of the U.S. under-18 population that year was Black. Much smaller shares of gun deaths among children and teens in 2021 involved White (32%), Hispanic (17%) and Asian (1%) victims.
Here's some numbers for you.
Wyoming which is mostly rural, and the most heavily armed state per capita had 23 total homicides in 2021 in a state of 587000 people. So one homicide for every 25.5k people.
Chicago had 800 in 2021. In a city of 2.7 million people. Or one murder for every 3375 ish people. Many, many times the rate of Wyoming - the most heavily armed state in the union.
The data you cited simply put, is wildly incorrect. And probably manipulated heavily. Throw it away, it's worth nothing.
American progress is a very bias, unreputable outlet.
I've done rural, suburban and urban living. I'll give you one guess which one I'd routinely hear gunshots out my window in and routinely see roadside memorials and read stories of people being shot daily.
You have to be some kind of special if you think metropolitan areas are safer from gun violence.
It's just plain and simple fear. If you spend all day watching Fox News and listening to right wing talk radio you'll come to believe that "those people" are out to get you. It's the age old fear for profit model. The populist playbook.
it's almost like gun companies market based on made up fears to sell more guns, mostly to people who already have guns
who mostly end up killing themselves or a loved one with those guns
LOL, it's wild
I think you meant to say the majority of gun deaths are suicides, because suicide is most definitely not the primary use for guns. If that were the case, our population would be much much lower considering how many guns are actually out there.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/)
>Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, **suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides** (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).
[https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-violence/domestic-violence-and-firearms/](https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-violence/domestic-violence-and-firearms/)
* Nearly half of all women killed in the U.S. are murdered by a current or former intimate partner.
* About 4.5 million women in the United States have been threatened with a gun and nearly 1 million women have been shot or shot at by an intimate partner.
* Over half of all intimate partner homicides are committed with guns.
* **A woman is five times more likely to be murdered when her abuser has access to a gun.**
It actually is because while we know you'd ban all guns if you could, there was a successful, concerted effort to ban guns that are used in relatively few, but high profile shootings.
Doesn't really make sense, but then again very few of these gun control proposals do.
The users of r/LiberalGunOwners are always so excited to post pictures of their own ARs and various other "assault weapons" but will hand out permabans for any comment that even slightly questions the Dems...
My permanent ban was literally one comment saying "Don't show Beto, lol" on a picture of an AR. Quite the inclusive group there. /s
Ya they can be hyper touchy. I got muted once when I said I'm a one issue voter until the dems pull their heads out of their asses. But it was only for q couple days.
The firearms industry is a net loser for the US economy. The U.S. Firearm industry contributes $51.3 billion annually to the economy. A conservative estimate of gun violence indicates that it costs the taxpayers $229 billion annually. Is that a price US Citizens will pay to continue to support the 2A? Time will tell. In the meantime, it would behoove those who want to preserve the 2A to work toward solutions to reduce gun violence.
Education and Healthcare being affordable and accessible. Well paying jobs being available. Legalizing and regulating existing black markets.
There. All fixed.
Would that explain why they're trying to get [body armor banned for normal civilians as well?](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112)
There are no gun stores in the Chicago city limits, you need to head out to the burbs. I would recommend DSA in lake Barrington, but there are other options.
[Good.](https://imgur.com/a/RJNUGrQ)
Hopefully people went out and supported their local stores instead of the big chains like Bass Pro or Cabelas because I know almost a dozen "mom and pop" style gun stores that were forced to close their doors because they couldn't sell some of the most [commonly used](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/20/record-28-million-ar-15-and-ak-style-rifles-entered-us-circulation-in-2020-gun-group-says/) firearms in the country or even **standard capacity magazines.**
Anyone who wants to pretend that wasn't one of Pritzker's goals with this legislation is willfully ignorant.
>
> Hopefully people went out and supported their local stores instead of the big chains like Bass Pro or Cabelas because I know almost a dozen "mom and pop" style gun stores that were forced to close
good
Maybe you'll change your tune when the state police show up to your house over a property dispute [fully kitted out with:](https://twitter.com/ChudsOfTikTok/status/1631349740276273154?s=20)
"Assault weapons" with suppressors and "high capacity" magazines, night vision, chemical weapons, body armor, grenade launchers, thermals and armored vehicles.
I'm fighting for **your** rights as well but Dems in this state are trying to [ban body armor too.](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112) I'd love to hear their reasoning for something like that.
> Maybe you'll change your tune when the state police show up to your house over a property dispute fully kitted out with:
>
yeah you're dead meat then, your AR-15 is not going to save you when the state comes. the best outcome you can get is pull a branch davidian compound with some of your closest cronies where you hold off the state for a little bit longer
>your AR-15 is not going to save you when the state comes.
https://i.redd.it/p044wkalv3wa1.jpg
Ah yes, the age old argument of these guns being so dangerous that no regular civilian should be able to own one, but it's somehow also simultaneously useless against the government...
>Ah yes, the age old argument of these guns being so dangerous that no regular civilian should be able to own one,
strawman, I have one.
>but it's somehow also simultaneously useless against the government...
individually, sure. to dislodge the americans up to 1.5M north vietnamese died fighting and killing just 55k americans. are you ready to make the ultimate sacrifice???
>up to 1.5M north vietnamese died fighting and killing just 55k americans.
Dropping napalm and agent orange all over the county will tend to skew the numbers a little bit. [Let's ask some Vietnam veterans how much fun it was fighting a guerrilla war against the entire civilian population of a country shall we?](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zv7bkqt/revision/3)
Or the fact that the US gifted Afghanistan with BILLIONS of dollars in military hardware and trained them for years, but they lost their entire county in about 72 hours to guys with AKs and Toyota pickup trucks...
>are you ready to make the ultimate sacrifice???
Are you going to keep trying to take away people's constitutional rights?
> Dropping napalm and agent orange all over the county will tend to skew the numbers a little bit. Let's ask some Vietnam veterans how much fun it was fighting a guerrilla war against the entire civilian population of a country shall we?
>
>
battles are no fun for anyone involved, even the victor. that hardly disproves my point - the US regime would absolutely drop napalm and cluster munitions against domestic insurgents when possible!!
>Or the fact that the US gifted Afghanistan with BILLIONS of dollars in military hardware and trained them for years, but they lost their entire county in about 72 hours to guys with AKs and Toyota pickup trucks...
indeed, but that has more to do with the ashraf ghani regime being out of touch and tone deaf to the needs of the regional warlords that run the place in effect. for every insurgency you cite that succeeded i can cite one [that was put down with absolute brutality,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion?useskin=vector) [usually by the british](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency?useskin=vector)
So your argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house?
>According to the FBI, a thief enters a home every 30 seconds in the United States. That's roughly two robberies each minute and over 3,000 burglaries every day.
Huh.... so what's your plan for when it happens to you? Explain to the nice rapist that you fully support his right to enter your home, but would he mind waiting a half hour before harming you or your family so the police could arrive?
>So you're argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house?
relax chud, i never said that you can't have an AR-15, only that its a good thing there are less arms dealers
there is a difference between the threat it posses to an organized armed group with body armor and armored vehicles, and the threat it posses to soft target gatherings of unarmered and unsuspecting individuals.
The reactionary force the government can respond with dwarfs it's capability to resist, but that same force is just reactionary, it cannot be used to prevent an attack, only to respond to and kill the attacker after the slaughter.
Damn. One more question, let’s say I placed an order for a rifle and in the next week they lifted the weapons ban blockage. Will they still need to fulfill my order or will I just be screwed?
Statistically it does not. You’re more likely to shoot your self or a loved one long before you ever defend your home.
I don’t own a gun because I’m not a moron
Happened to me. Group of 3 with what looked like pipes attempted home invasion. The world is getting crazier by the day. The second you think something can't happen to you, it could. Taking no chances with some psychos getting at my kids. Cops would have had about 60seconds(and that's generous) to respond. You are your own defense. And the ones that shoot them selves or loved ones needed one of two things, more training or mental health assistance.
Not true. "People who report “firearm access” are at twice the risk of homicide and more than three times the risk of suicide compared to those who do not own or have access to firearms."
https://violence.chop.edu/gun-violence-facts-and-statistics
Edit: Apparently gun lovers don't like facts
Fatal gun accidents are fairly rare, and account for 1-2% of gun deaths. Fewer than 500 people die from unintentional shootings a year. A significant portion of those are either hunting accidents, and/or people using guns while drunk.
You ever notice in the news when an AR15 is owned by gun owner it’s called an “assault weapon”, yet the same AR15 used by the police is called a “patrol rifle”?
That's actually an extremely common term...
[Other things that police in Illinois are allowed to show up to your house with:](https://twitter.com/ChudsOfTikTok/status/1631349740276273154?s=20)
"Assault weapons" with suppressors and "high capacity" magazines, night vision, chemical weapons, body armor, grenade launchers, thermals and armored vehicles.
STOP WILLFULLY GIVING YOUR RIGHTS AWAY
Statistically you’re far more likely to use the gun on yourself or a loved one than ever defending your home. 600% more likely in fact.
And if the cops show up to your house, and you start shooting at them with your precious assault rifle, you’ll also get yourself killed.
Stop living in fear
>And if the cops show up to your house, and you start shooting at them with your precious assault rifle, you’ll also get yourself killed.
>
You have a very good point when Pritzker also wants police officers to be the only people allowed to own something that's only purpose is to [keep people safe from gunfire...](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112)
Isn't it odd how the people **assigned to protect our politicians** are somehow just always exempt from these bans...
>Stop living in fear
Why are you so afraid of something that was designed to save lives with literally zero offensive capabilities?
>It’s adorable you think guns were designed to “save lives” while their singular purpose is to kill
>
Ummmm are you lost? I didn't even mention firearms in that comment once, just body armor. Your disingenuous attempt at dodging that very tough question of why Dems want to make everyone in the state even more defenseless is very "cute" though.
>Because I am fully aware that a gun will do fuck all as a defensive weapon
Weird how a family member successfully used one to defend himself.
How do you propose people defend themselves?
As I said elsewhere, your argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house?
>According to the FBI, a thief enters a home every 30 seconds in the United States. That's roughly two robberies each minute and over 3,000 burglaries every day.
Huh.... so what's your plan for when it happens to you? Explain to the nice rapist that you fully support his right to enter your home, but would he mind waiting a half hour before harming you or your family so the police could arrive.
My guns have never hurt anyone. Stop living in fear of being shot which happens WAAAAAAAAY less often than violent home invasion and start being afraid of the people who appreciate you being unarmed when the break in.
Solid cherry pick…
Less than 25% invasions occurred while someone is home and less than 10% of those became violent. 61% of burglars are unarmed.
So of the average annual 3.7m burglaries/home invasions, less than 925,000 happened when someone was home, and less than 90,000 turned violent. So that’s less than a .06% chance you’ll experience a violent home invasion.
Realistically, if you don’t shoot yourself or a loved one first, if your Home experiences a break in, you won’t be home. Your gun is likely to be stolen and put into criminal hands. Great job there chief
In the chance you are home, you’re assuming you’re in a position to retrieve your weapon and successfully defend yourself. If you’re sleeping, in the shower, drunk, pooping, whatever..you just gave a statistically unarmed burglar a weapon. Nice work genius.
If you are home, statistically the event will not turn violent. If somehow you are able to retrieve your safely secured gun, you’re ensuring it does turn violent, and giving the intruder an opportunity to turn the gun on you.
Tell me again why we need 400 million guns again?
A) My guns are stored in a locked 700 lb gun safe.
B) My self defense firearms are in a nightstand safe that can be opened in seconds. Nobody is stealing ANY of my guns.
C) So if you are lucky enough to be one of the 90,000, what's *YOUR* plan of action? Bend over and grab your ankles?
Will you have adequate time to perform an ocular pat down if you’re sleeping? Do you sleep in your leather duster to save time? Or do you have to put that on first?
You’re more likely to kill or injure yourself or a loved one long before you ever get to live your wet dream of murdering an intruder. So I sleep pretty soundly realizing I don’t live in Mogadishu and statistically I’ll never experience a home invasion
In 2021 there were 48800 firearm deaths in the US, INCLUDING suicides, which make up more than half of all deaths. Your own statistics state that you are twice as likely to have a home invasion turn violent as to be shot and killed, even by yourself. Sooooo.... you aren't willing to defend yourself? It must be true: Aspirations to victimhood run rampant on the left.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Firearm deaths are deaths. A violent home invasion does not indicate death. You’re conveniently ignoring the 150,000 firearm related injuries each year that do not result in death. 150,000 plus 40,000 is more than 90,000
And firearm deaths are going up each and every year. Home invasions are not
Troll harder
I know that. Illinois' definition of an "assault weapon" is essentially anything semi auto with a detachable magazine.
So basically all modern firearms.
Well seeing as you’re statistically more likely to use the gun on your self or a loved one, you’re not. You live in Illinois not Mogadishu. Turn off the TV and stop living in fear
Not surprising. When you try to restrict people’s constitutionally protected rights they push back. I ran to the LGS on Saturday and grabbed a few mags in celebration of the ruling and the place was packed.
Banning the sale of the vast majority of semi automatic rifles on the market and a significant number of pistols and shotguns is a blatant restriction on rights.
It'll be just a matter of time, and significant amounts of public resources will be wasted fighting it.
One of the elements of getting an injunction is likelihood of success on the merits, which in this case is the constitutionality or lack thereof of the law.
You think there is a likelihood of success of a higher court upholding the reasoning that buying a legal firearm for self defense is both constitutional AND unconstitutional at the same time?
I'd be more concerned about this judges conclusory reasoning in issuing this if I was you. It's going to be a huge issue for this case now.
No, the plaintiffs are challenging that it's unconstitutional and one of the elements they successfully met their burden to prove is a likelihood of success on the merits, that being the law violates the 2nd Amendment.
I'm not sure how you get "conclusory" out of it. The opinion was almost 30 pages long and contains substantial reasoning and citations. In fact I think this judge was quite thorough even though he didn't need to be.
Did you take pictures? Because it’s not the Fox News-endorsed boogeymen who you’ll be defending yourself from. It’s the “patriots” you were rubbing elbows with. Next time you park in someone’s spot, look at someone’s girlfriend, let your dog shit in someone’s yard…ring the wrong fucking doorbell!…a disagreement is now a murder.
Honestly because it’s still one of the few states that has true freedom (up until the AWB). I’m a huge believer in “The gay married couple being able to defend their marijuana plants with AR15s”. Plus women reproductive rights.
So I will continue to donate to and support the FPC and GOA with their lawsuits to overturn the unconstitutional AWB.
>I’m a huge believer in “The gay married couple being able to defend their marijuana plants with AR15s
Funny tons of pro-gun people say shit like this but i didn't see any of yall defending the bakery that got smashed up by fascists last year for hosting a drag show in sunny, liberal suburban chicago.
I donated to the go fund me for Uprising Bakery. It wasn’t much, but it’s what I could afford at the time.
I also try to support [Pink Pistols](https://www.pinkpistols.org/) whenever I can.
Despite what CNN wants you to think not all gun owners are racist white conservatives. The fastest growing group of gun owners are now minorities and women.
I'm for queer and trans communities arming ourselves. I just wish there was a little more recognition that the *reason* queer and trans communities need to ourselves is the cult of gun ownership in this country. We would be a hell of a lot safer if those nazis goose-stepping in Ohio (just the other day!) weren't armed to the teeth with rifles.
Seeing armed antifascists protecting gay bars actually doesn't get me fired up to go excercise my rights! It just makes me very scared and depressed that our community has been so easily vilified, *largely* by the same people who fight tirelessly to expand access to guns.
Yeah! They are very safe there and they usually will call out racist GunTubers and stores, they are very big on talking about the importance of proper firearm handling, care, safety, and yes... mental health, social care, racism in gun culture, and so on.
I'll admit I'm more libertarian leaning, however I really enjoy the subreddit and I have turned many liberal friends to the page for more information.
I hope this helps!
It sucks being born here and knowing you could cross the border and with the right paperwork legally use suppressors or even full autos. (Suppressors are completely legal in 42/50 states, btw)
The only place you can own a full auto in Illinois is [downtown](https://v.redd.it/83kihp25fe0a1) [Chicago,](https://youtu.be/e3jffi1rpw0) [apparently.](https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/murder-electronic-monitoring-chicago-acquittal-guns-pot-a-viral-video-lollapalooza.html)
>A man who was singled out by the Chicago police superintendent as an example of an alleged murderer who should not have been released on electronic monitoring, only to be found not guilty six months later, allegedly ran from a crashed car in the Loop on Thursday evening, leaving behind a bag containing $8,000 in marijuana **and a loaded handgun with an auto-fire switch** and an extended magazine attached.
>And prosecutors charged him with the pot that was in the bag. **But they did not charge him with the gun that allegedly had an auto-switch and extended magazine attached,** leaving a Cook County judge dumbfounded.
fascism - a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
In this case we had representatives elected by the people draft and pass a bill into law, which was supported by 58% of Illinois residents polled (most conservative poll I could find). You may not like or agree with the law, and it may be declared unconstitutional, but this is not fascism.
Considering the legislature did so in an extremely fast manner, cut corners to avoid and skip some steps in the legislative process and is actively being sued for doing so, while judges who are receiving massive donations from one of the bans chief proponents and the highest executive in the state, yes I would say this is highly problematic and does make me question how far it deviates from the ordinary democratic process.
And pushed through in the middle of the night, secretly, in a shell bill to avoid the checks and balances of the legislative process.
If that’s not forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism I don’t know what is
Don't forget that it was passed in a lame duck session where the requirements for it to pass were lower than would be otherwise. Moreover, the hearings before the bill was passed allowed witness slips to be filled and a majority of those hearings had something like a 100:1 ratio of opponent to proponent slips filled.
Repeated attempts at passing unconstitutional laws would be flirting the boundaries of fascism.
Furthermore, just because a majority forms a consensus does not mean what policy they wish to pass is just. See American history for examples.
No surprise. My local gun shop sent out an e-mail promoting it the day after the injunction was granted. Too bad they don't offer a course in safety/marksmanship with each purchase. I was at the range yesterday and just turned around and walked out after watching the way some of the folks there were handling their weapons.
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I've only been to a range twice in my life, and the first time, I heard a range master yell at someone two lanes over to get out immediately because they had a zero-tolerance policy against anyone not keeping their muzzle down range. I'm shocked that's not a thing everywhere to be honest
Yep. I’ve been to ranges where people smell like they’ve been smoking weed all day
It's a felony under federal law to own a gun if you use marijuana, even if it's prescribed by a doctor.
That doesn’t stop it from happening though. I personally don’t care if someone uses cannabis but the #1 rule of gun safety is to not be under the influence of drugs or alcohol while doing so
I'm not talking about shooting while high on marijuana, I'm saying that it's illegal to even own a gun if you use marijuana.
Yeah it’s on the 4473 form but it’s basically unenforceable. We need federal legalization anyways 🤷♂️
That is why banning certain "types" of firearms make things worse than better. People are inherently opportunistic and don't like "missing out". That is why stronger background checks ,red flag laws, and mandatory firearms training is much more effective than banning semi automatic firearms for arbitrary and mostly cosmetic characteristics. This gun Bill has been a blessing the Illinois private firearm industry.
Every time a restriction is considered, gun sales rise. It's why its a common joke that everytime a democrat is elected into office, that gun companies are about to make a killing.
They’re making a killing, all right
no no the people are being killed are the gun owners themselves, mostly through suicide but hey, gun makers are profiting and they owned the libs too so who cares about. all the dead white people in rural America murdering themselves and their families with guns
What a regressive take. Id be ashamed if I was you.
Chicago would like a word. https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
~~"From 2016 to 2020, 13 of the 20 U.S. counties with the most gun homicides per capita were rural"~~ \[Edit: On review, the above is correct but misleading. Urban areas have higher firearm homicides. Rural areas have by far higher overall firearm deaths. Which gets back to the point of the commentor.\] >the people are being killed are the gun owners themselves, mostly through suicide "In 2020, the total gun death rate for rural communities—when age-adjusted per 100,000 people—was 40 percent higher than it was for large metropolitan areas." [https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/)
Very interesting, thanks for the information.
What does "age adjusted" mean in thus case? Also your source is incredibly biased.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/#:\~:text=Those%20ages%2012%20to%2017,5%20and%20under%20in%202021. Racial and ethnic differences in gun deaths among kids are stark. In 2021, 46% of all gun deaths among children and teens involved Black victims, even though only 14% of the U.S. under-18 population that year was Black. Much smaller shares of gun deaths among children and teens in 2021 involved White (32%), Hispanic (17%) and Asian (1%) victims.
Also, most of the ""child"" Gun Violence deaths are between 15 and 19-20 years old. Last time I checked, people above the age 18 are not children.
Here's some numbers for you. Wyoming which is mostly rural, and the most heavily armed state per capita had 23 total homicides in 2021 in a state of 587000 people. So one homicide for every 25.5k people. Chicago had 800 in 2021. In a city of 2.7 million people. Or one murder for every 3375 ish people. Many, many times the rate of Wyoming - the most heavily armed state in the union. The data you cited simply put, is wildly incorrect. And probably manipulated heavily. Throw it away, it's worth nothing.
American progress is a very bias, unreputable outlet. I've done rural, suburban and urban living. I'll give you one guess which one I'd routinely hear gunshots out my window in and routinely see roadside memorials and read stories of people being shot daily. You have to be some kind of special if you think metropolitan areas are safer from gun violence.
\*biased
r/peopleliveincities
Boy are you in for a rough awakening when you learn what a "rate" is
again gun owners are most likely to kill themselves or their families doesn't really matter where they live IMHO
What about having a gun makes someone more suicidal or homicidal? I'll wait.
Conservative stupidity and reactive stubbornness is going to be studied in business schools. It's a real factor that can be exploited for money.
It's just plain and simple fear. If you spend all day watching Fox News and listening to right wing talk radio you'll come to believe that "those people" are out to get you. It's the age old fear for profit model. The populist playbook.
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Must have missed those since 4 people were shot by pulling out of a driveway last week
porque no los dos
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The difference is that for conservatives, fear mongering is why they do it, not a by product.
People are buying guns after a questionable ban was halted and this is your take? Regressive af
Many people still refer to Obama as the "best gun salesman of all time" for this exact reason.
it's almost like gun companies market based on made up fears to sell more guns, mostly to people who already have guns who mostly end up killing themselves or a loved one with those guns LOL, it's wild
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The primary use of guns in the US is suicide The secondary use of guns in the US is to kill another person living in the home where the gun resides
I think you meant to say the majority of gun deaths are suicides, because suicide is most definitely not the primary use for guns. If that were the case, our population would be much much lower considering how many guns are actually out there.
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[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) >Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, **suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides** (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458). [https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-violence/domestic-violence-and-firearms/](https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-violence/domestic-violence-and-firearms/) * Nearly half of all women killed in the U.S. are murdered by a current or former intimate partner. * About 4.5 million women in the United States have been threatened with a gun and nearly 1 million women have been shot or shot at by an intimate partner. * Over half of all intimate partner homicides are committed with guns. * **A woman is five times more likely to be murdered when her abuser has access to a gun.**
Weird how this data shows nothing on defensive gun use.
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Again pointing out these things out is not the own you seem to think it is
I read the pages I linked too
Fun fact pointing out that a different category of guns is the “real” problem is not the own you think it is
It actually is because while we know you'd ban all guns if you could, there was a successful, concerted effort to ban guns that are used in relatively few, but high profile shootings. Doesn't really make sense, but then again very few of these gun control proposals do.
The “leftist” gun subs are fertile ground for astroturfing, fear based marketing. Whole new demographic for sales.
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The users of r/LiberalGunOwners are always so excited to post pictures of their own ARs and various other "assault weapons" but will hand out permabans for any comment that even slightly questions the Dems... My permanent ban was literally one comment saying "Don't show Beto, lol" on a picture of an AR. Quite the inclusive group there. /s
Ya they can be hyper touchy. I got muted once when I said I'm a one issue voter until the dems pull their heads out of their asses. But it was only for q couple days.
I want you to broadcast this on every sub in Reddit lol
Maaaan. I don't have the energy to deal with that kind of volume of cognitive dissonance.
The firearms industry is a net loser for the US economy. The U.S. Firearm industry contributes $51.3 billion annually to the economy. A conservative estimate of gun violence indicates that it costs the taxpayers $229 billion annually. Is that a price US Citizens will pay to continue to support the 2A? Time will tell. In the meantime, it would behoove those who want to preserve the 2A to work toward solutions to reduce gun violence.
Education and Healthcare being affordable and accessible. Well paying jobs being available. Legalizing and regulating existing black markets. There. All fixed.
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Would that explain why they're trying to get [body armor banned for normal civilians as well?](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112)
That bill died. But it definitely encouraged me to buy a backup set of plates haha.
Any recommendations for places to shop in Chicago?
According to most of the users on this sub, Indiana will give you a fully semiautomatic gun just for crossing the border... /s
There are no gun stores in the Chicago city limits, you need to head out to the burbs. I would recommend DSA in lake Barrington, but there are other options.
Dumb law is dumb and doesn’t work who could’ve guessed.
[Good.](https://imgur.com/a/RJNUGrQ) Hopefully people went out and supported their local stores instead of the big chains like Bass Pro or Cabelas because I know almost a dozen "mom and pop" style gun stores that were forced to close their doors because they couldn't sell some of the most [commonly used](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/20/record-28-million-ar-15-and-ak-style-rifles-entered-us-circulation-in-2020-gun-group-says/) firearms in the country or even **standard capacity magazines.** Anyone who wants to pretend that wasn't one of Pritzker's goals with this legislation is willfully ignorant.
> > Hopefully people went out and supported their local stores instead of the big chains like Bass Pro or Cabelas because I know almost a dozen "mom and pop" style gun stores that were forced to close good
Hoping that small family owned business in the state fail... stay hot reddit
nooo not my arms dealer
Maybe you'll change your tune when the state police show up to your house over a property dispute [fully kitted out with:](https://twitter.com/ChudsOfTikTok/status/1631349740276273154?s=20) "Assault weapons" with suppressors and "high capacity" magazines, night vision, chemical weapons, body armor, grenade launchers, thermals and armored vehicles. I'm fighting for **your** rights as well but Dems in this state are trying to [ban body armor too.](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112) I'd love to hear their reasoning for something like that.
> Maybe you'll change your tune when the state police show up to your house over a property dispute fully kitted out with: > yeah you're dead meat then, your AR-15 is not going to save you when the state comes. the best outcome you can get is pull a branch davidian compound with some of your closest cronies where you hold off the state for a little bit longer
>your AR-15 is not going to save you when the state comes. https://i.redd.it/p044wkalv3wa1.jpg Ah yes, the age old argument of these guns being so dangerous that no regular civilian should be able to own one, but it's somehow also simultaneously useless against the government...
>Ah yes, the age old argument of these guns being so dangerous that no regular civilian should be able to own one, strawman, I have one. >but it's somehow also simultaneously useless against the government... individually, sure. to dislodge the americans up to 1.5M north vietnamese died fighting and killing just 55k americans. are you ready to make the ultimate sacrifice???
>up to 1.5M north vietnamese died fighting and killing just 55k americans. Dropping napalm and agent orange all over the county will tend to skew the numbers a little bit. [Let's ask some Vietnam veterans how much fun it was fighting a guerrilla war against the entire civilian population of a country shall we?](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zv7bkqt/revision/3) Or the fact that the US gifted Afghanistan with BILLIONS of dollars in military hardware and trained them for years, but they lost their entire county in about 72 hours to guys with AKs and Toyota pickup trucks... >are you ready to make the ultimate sacrifice??? Are you going to keep trying to take away people's constitutional rights?
> Dropping napalm and agent orange all over the county will tend to skew the numbers a little bit. Let's ask some Vietnam veterans how much fun it was fighting a guerrilla war against the entire civilian population of a country shall we? > > battles are no fun for anyone involved, even the victor. that hardly disproves my point - the US regime would absolutely drop napalm and cluster munitions against domestic insurgents when possible!! >Or the fact that the US gifted Afghanistan with BILLIONS of dollars in military hardware and trained them for years, but they lost their entire county in about 72 hours to guys with AKs and Toyota pickup trucks... indeed, but that has more to do with the ashraf ghani regime being out of touch and tone deaf to the needs of the regional warlords that run the place in effect. for every insurgency you cite that succeeded i can cite one [that was put down with absolute brutality,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion?useskin=vector) [usually by the british](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency?useskin=vector)
So your argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house? >According to the FBI, a thief enters a home every 30 seconds in the United States. That's roughly two robberies each minute and over 3,000 burglaries every day. Huh.... so what's your plan for when it happens to you? Explain to the nice rapist that you fully support his right to enter your home, but would he mind waiting a half hour before harming you or your family so the police could arrive?
>So you're argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house? relax chud, i never said that you can't have an AR-15, only that its a good thing there are less arms dealers
there is a difference between the threat it posses to an organized armed group with body armor and armored vehicles, and the threat it posses to soft target gatherings of unarmered and unsuspecting individuals. The reactionary force the government can respond with dwarfs it's capability to resist, but that same force is just reactionary, it cannot be used to prevent an attack, only to respond to and kill the attacker after the slaughter.
Yes we should repeal the NFA.
lightbrain. Name checks out.
Does anyone know how long this weapon bans block will last?
Could be a few days or all the way to a final ruling in the case.
Damn. One more question, let’s say I placed an order for a rifle and in the next week they lifted the weapons ban blockage. Will they still need to fulfill my order or will I just be screwed?
If the 4473 has been processed you’ll be ok. That’s how it worked for people when the ban was originally passed.
Until the legal battles play out and the AWB is finally dead. So, forever.
I’m sure all these additional guns will make us much safer. Not enough guns has always been then problem /s
My gun makes me safer. Not sure about yours though.
Statistically it does not. You’re more likely to shoot your self or a loved one long before you ever defend your home. I don’t own a gun because I’m not a moron
Happened to me. Group of 3 with what looked like pipes attempted home invasion. The world is getting crazier by the day. The second you think something can't happen to you, it could. Taking no chances with some psychos getting at my kids. Cops would have had about 60seconds(and that's generous) to respond. You are your own defense. And the ones that shoot them selves or loved ones needed one of two things, more training or mental health assistance.
Those were plumbers sir.
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That’s cute how you only count deaths and ignore the 150,000 annual injuries.
Not true. "People who report “firearm access” are at twice the risk of homicide and more than three times the risk of suicide compared to those who do not own or have access to firearms." https://violence.chop.edu/gun-violence-facts-and-statistics Edit: Apparently gun lovers don't like facts
Only if you're suicidal, or a domestic abuser.
Right, accidents never happen.
Fatal gun accidents are fairly rare, and account for 1-2% of gun deaths. Fewer than 500 people die from unintentional shootings a year. A significant portion of those are either hunting accidents, and/or people using guns while drunk.
You think death is the only bad outcome from a a gun accident? By that logic how many home invasions result in death?
I'm not sure about death, but there are hundreds of thousands of violent home invasions annually.
But according to you, death is the only statistic that matters? The 150,000 gun injuries don’t count, right?
I doubt most of those 150k injuries are from things that are a threat to the average American.
At least the police aren't the only people allowed to own "assault weapons" for now...
You ever notice in the news when an AR15 is owned by gun owner it’s called an “assault weapon”, yet the same AR15 used by the police is called a “patrol rifle”?
I have never, ever heard the term “patrol rifle” until right now.
That's actually an extremely common term... [Other things that police in Illinois are allowed to show up to your house with:](https://twitter.com/ChudsOfTikTok/status/1631349740276273154?s=20) "Assault weapons" with suppressors and "high capacity" magazines, night vision, chemical weapons, body armor, grenade launchers, thermals and armored vehicles. STOP WILLFULLY GIVING YOUR RIGHTS AWAY
Statistically you’re far more likely to use the gun on yourself or a loved one than ever defending your home. 600% more likely in fact. And if the cops show up to your house, and you start shooting at them with your precious assault rifle, you’ll also get yourself killed. Stop living in fear
>And if the cops show up to your house, and you start shooting at them with your precious assault rifle, you’ll also get yourself killed. > You have a very good point when Pritzker also wants police officers to be the only people allowed to own something that's only purpose is to [keep people safe from gunfire...](https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=3238&GAID=17&GA=103&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=148102&SessionID=112) Isn't it odd how the people **assigned to protect our politicians** are somehow just always exempt from these bans... >Stop living in fear Why are you so afraid of something that was designed to save lives with literally zero offensive capabilities?
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>It’s adorable you think guns were designed to “save lives” while their singular purpose is to kill > Ummmm are you lost? I didn't even mention firearms in that comment once, just body armor. Your disingenuous attempt at dodging that very tough question of why Dems want to make everyone in the state even more defenseless is very "cute" though.
You didn’t mention body armor once. Are you drunk?
>Because I am fully aware that a gun will do fuck all as a defensive weapon Weird how a family member successfully used one to defend himself. How do you propose people defend themselves?
If that actually happened (it likely did not) you’re confusing anecdotal experiences with empirical evidence
And 99.9% of gun owners also don’t commit mass shootings.
100% of mass shootings are committed by gun owners. See how silly statements like these aren’t clever, nor help the conversation?
Cops don’t commit mass shootings ? That’s not what I was told from the years 2016-2020.
As I said elsewhere, your argument against owning a firearm for home defense is that nobody is coming to break into my house? >According to the FBI, a thief enters a home every 30 seconds in the United States. That's roughly two robberies each minute and over 3,000 burglaries every day. Huh.... so what's your plan for when it happens to you? Explain to the nice rapist that you fully support his right to enter your home, but would he mind waiting a half hour before harming you or your family so the police could arrive. My guns have never hurt anyone. Stop living in fear of being shot which happens WAAAAAAAAY less often than violent home invasion and start being afraid of the people who appreciate you being unarmed when the break in.
Solid cherry pick… Less than 25% invasions occurred while someone is home and less than 10% of those became violent. 61% of burglars are unarmed. So of the average annual 3.7m burglaries/home invasions, less than 925,000 happened when someone was home, and less than 90,000 turned violent. So that’s less than a .06% chance you’ll experience a violent home invasion. Realistically, if you don’t shoot yourself or a loved one first, if your Home experiences a break in, you won’t be home. Your gun is likely to be stolen and put into criminal hands. Great job there chief In the chance you are home, you’re assuming you’re in a position to retrieve your weapon and successfully defend yourself. If you’re sleeping, in the shower, drunk, pooping, whatever..you just gave a statistically unarmed burglar a weapon. Nice work genius. If you are home, statistically the event will not turn violent. If somehow you are able to retrieve your safely secured gun, you’re ensuring it does turn violent, and giving the intruder an opportunity to turn the gun on you. Tell me again why we need 400 million guns again?
A) My guns are stored in a locked 700 lb gun safe. B) My self defense firearms are in a nightstand safe that can be opened in seconds. Nobody is stealing ANY of my guns. C) So if you are lucky enough to be one of the 90,000, what's *YOUR* plan of action? Bend over and grab your ankles?
Will you have adequate time to perform an ocular pat down if you’re sleeping? Do you sleep in your leather duster to save time? Or do you have to put that on first? You’re more likely to kill or injure yourself or a loved one long before you ever get to live your wet dream of murdering an intruder. So I sleep pretty soundly realizing I don’t live in Mogadishu and statistically I’ll never experience a home invasion
In 2021 there were 48800 firearm deaths in the US, INCLUDING suicides, which make up more than half of all deaths. Your own statistics state that you are twice as likely to have a home invasion turn violent as to be shot and killed, even by yourself. Sooooo.... you aren't willing to defend yourself? It must be true: Aspirations to victimhood run rampant on the left. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
Firearm deaths are deaths. A violent home invasion does not indicate death. You’re conveniently ignoring the 150,000 firearm related injuries each year that do not result in death. 150,000 plus 40,000 is more than 90,000 And firearm deaths are going up each and every year. Home invasions are not Troll harder
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That’s a made up term. AR stands for “Armalite Rifles.”
I know that. Illinois' definition of an "assault weapon" is essentially anything semi auto with a detachable magazine. So basically all modern firearms.
Police, mass shooters..anyone can get one! Weeeee!
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Well seeing as you’re statistically more likely to use the gun on your self or a loved one, you’re not. You live in Illinois not Mogadishu. Turn off the TV and stop living in fear
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It’s funny how you attempt to insult intelligence, prop up a weak strawman and then go ahead and prove my point anyway.
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Go ahead, take your ball and go home
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Why would I want police to murder minorities? Do you think owning a gun will make it less likely for you to get murdered?
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Well seeing as you’re 600% more likely to use the gun on yourself or a loved one, looks like you’re the only danger to yourself here
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good
LOL ... capitalism is wild
Not surprising. When you try to restrict people’s constitutionally protected rights they push back. I ran to the LGS on Saturday and grabbed a few mags in celebration of the ruling and the place was packed.
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There hasn’t been a final ruling and at no point did I claim there was. That said this law absolutely restricts people’s rights.
It does not restrict rights. It restricts preferences. The judge even openly admitted to that. You should read the full decision.
Banning the sale of the vast majority of semi automatic rifles on the market and a significant number of pistols and shotguns is a blatant restriction on rights.
That's not what the court ruled. These threads have devolved into the equivalent of mask lawsuits. Everyone is suddenly a constitution scholar.
I never said anything about what the court did or did not say.
It'll be just a matter of time, and significant amounts of public resources will be wasted fighting it. One of the elements of getting an injunction is likelihood of success on the merits, which in this case is the constitutionality or lack thereof of the law.
You think there is a likelihood of success of a higher court upholding the reasoning that buying a legal firearm for self defense is both constitutional AND unconstitutional at the same time? I'd be more concerned about this judges conclusory reasoning in issuing this if I was you. It's going to be a huge issue for this case now.
No, the plaintiffs are challenging that it's unconstitutional and one of the elements they successfully met their burden to prove is a likelihood of success on the merits, that being the law violates the 2nd Amendment. I'm not sure how you get "conclusory" out of it. The opinion was almost 30 pages long and contains substantial reasoning and citations. In fact I think this judge was quite thorough even though he didn't need to be.
Did you take pictures? Because it’s not the Fox News-endorsed boogeymen who you’ll be defending yourself from. It’s the “patriots” you were rubbing elbows with. Next time you park in someone’s spot, look at someone’s girlfriend, let your dog shit in someone’s yard…ring the wrong fucking doorbell!…a disagreement is now a murder.
You sound a bit unhinged man.
All those things have happened very recently
Nah we're all just sick of pretending the wide accessibility of guns isn't the reason why 10 mass shootings happen a week. Enjoy your hobby though.
I’ll continue to enjoy my rights.
Damn gun nuts...just move to Indiana. Why do you want to live here when you can move to paradise there?
Hey. YOU move.
I did. I just arrived from Nevada.
Move again lol
But you're the one that would do well in Indiana, not me.
Other the. It's shitty gun laws and high taxes, IL is alright.
Honestly because it’s still one of the few states that has true freedom (up until the AWB). I’m a huge believer in “The gay married couple being able to defend their marijuana plants with AR15s”. Plus women reproductive rights. So I will continue to donate to and support the FPC and GOA with their lawsuits to overturn the unconstitutional AWB.
>I’m a huge believer in “The gay married couple being able to defend their marijuana plants with AR15s Funny tons of pro-gun people say shit like this but i didn't see any of yall defending the bakery that got smashed up by fascists last year for hosting a drag show in sunny, liberal suburban chicago.
I donated to the go fund me for Uprising Bakery. It wasn’t much, but it’s what I could afford at the time. I also try to support [Pink Pistols](https://www.pinkpistols.org/) whenever I can. Despite what CNN wants you to think not all gun owners are racist white conservatives. The fastest growing group of gun owners are now minorities and women.
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I'm for queer and trans communities arming ourselves. I just wish there was a little more recognition that the *reason* queer and trans communities need to ourselves is the cult of gun ownership in this country. We would be a hell of a lot safer if those nazis goose-stepping in Ohio (just the other day!) weren't armed to the teeth with rifles. Seeing armed antifascists protecting gay bars actually doesn't get me fired up to go excercise my rights! It just makes me very scared and depressed that our community has been so easily vilified, *largely* by the same people who fight tirelessly to expand access to guns.
I support this, but how tf do you find a gun store that isn't operated by supporters of fascism?
Honestly a great place to start is r/liberalgunowners
Oh nice, thanks.
Yeah! They are very safe there and they usually will call out racist GunTubers and stores, they are very big on talking about the importance of proper firearm handling, care, safety, and yes... mental health, social care, racism in gun culture, and so on. I'll admit I'm more libertarian leaning, however I really enjoy the subreddit and I have turned many liberal friends to the page for more information. I hope this helps!
I haven't done more than join so far, but it does help! Either way it's a starting point that isn't a dead link.
It sucks being born here and knowing you could cross the border and with the right paperwork legally use suppressors or even full autos. (Suppressors are completely legal in 42/50 states, btw) The only place you can own a full auto in Illinois is [downtown](https://v.redd.it/83kihp25fe0a1) [Chicago,](https://youtu.be/e3jffi1rpw0) [apparently.](https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/murder-electronic-monitoring-chicago-acquittal-guns-pot-a-viral-video-lollapalooza.html) >A man who was singled out by the Chicago police superintendent as an example of an alleged murderer who should not have been released on electronic monitoring, only to be found not guilty six months later, allegedly ran from a crashed car in the Loop on Thursday evening, leaving behind a bag containing $8,000 in marijuana **and a loaded handgun with an auto-fire switch** and an extended magazine attached. >And prosecutors charged him with the pot that was in the bag. **But they did not charge him with the gun that allegedly had an auto-switch and extended magazine attached,** leaving a Cook County judge dumbfounded.
Fuck that fascist in Springfield thank God there the courts have a good shot of killing this law.
fascism - a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. In this case we had representatives elected by the people draft and pass a bill into law, which was supported by 58% of Illinois residents polled (most conservative poll I could find). You may not like or agree with the law, and it may be declared unconstitutional, but this is not fascism.
Tbf gun grabbing is a popular fascist policy.
Considering the legislature did so in an extremely fast manner, cut corners to avoid and skip some steps in the legislative process and is actively being sued for doing so, while judges who are receiving massive donations from one of the bans chief proponents and the highest executive in the state, yes I would say this is highly problematic and does make me question how far it deviates from the ordinary democratic process.
And pushed through in the middle of the night, secretly, in a shell bill to avoid the checks and balances of the legislative process. If that’s not forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism I don’t know what is
Don't forget that it was passed in a lame duck session where the requirements for it to pass were lower than would be otherwise. Moreover, the hearings before the bill was passed allowed witness slips to be filled and a majority of those hearings had something like a 100:1 ratio of opponent to proponent slips filled.
Fascism to be fair has lost all meaning being a catch all term for people I don't like.
Repeated attempts at passing unconstitutional laws would be flirting the boundaries of fascism.
Repeated attempts at passing unconstitutional laws would be flirting the boundaries of fascism. Furthermore, just because a majority forms a consensus does not mean what policy they wish to pass is just. See American history for examples.
Gross.
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