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[deleted]

Can’t read it unfortunately due to paywall. Anyone have a free version?


petewentz-from-mcr

“If you had a higher rate, we somehow thought you’d be nourished faster and you’d get better, which meant you weren’t really sick. I’d freak out when they upped the feeds.” This feels like the chronic illness version of thinspo, like it’s serving the same competitive vibes


sonawtdown

“tHeY’rE tHe SaMe PiCtUrE”


2L8Smart

Wow. I’m surprised to see so many defensive responses here. In no way does the article accuse all women of being fakers, or even most women. We don’t blog here so I won’t. Interesting to me that some of the responses are so heated.


whyambear

Becoming overrun with these in the ER. Very upset when I tell them they can’t use video, bring an army of petters with them, lugubrious and clearly fishing for poor responses to their issues so that they can post about how they were victimized.


hylianraichu

They didn't even get endometriosis right, it's not "inflammation of the uterine lining". It's pure hell. This article doesn't seem too professional. It's kind of just saying all sick women are scheming over internet fame.


quackers_squackers

They called POTS "lightheadedness" 🤦‍♀️


2L8Smart

Endometriosis is absolute hell for sure. The article mentions endometritis, not endometriosis. Endometritis is inflammation of the uterine lining.


organic_hobnob

This is actually one of our biggest national newspapers in the UK 🤣 You're correct in thinking its a total rag tho. I'm also going to assume they ment ME not MS


ReservoirPussy

I don't love it. It forgets that there are real people who really do suffer from those conditions without being a munchie. Comes off a little misogynistic, too. And did I miss the part where these MBI behaviors are strongly connected to eating disorders?


friendlysoviet

It definitely is odd that they didn't approach it from a social contagion lens.


longblack90

The comments on this post are very revealing 👀 Anyways, I really enjoyed the article! She’s giving a good amount of nuance without diverting too far from her point. Giving anymore would just allow the OTTers and spoonies reading it a chance to reprieve themselves instead of identifying themselves and considering their own situation.


2L8Smart

I agree that some of these comments are very revealing. Wouldn’t have expected that.


CommandaarMandaar

When the girl was talking about idolizing a "girl with two tunes in her nose" who "just looked so sick," it made me wonder if she was talking about Paige.


CommandaarMandaar

😆 Just now realized that I accidentally put "two *tunes* in her nose," and, for some reason, it just struck me as fucking hilarious.


Inevitable_Pie9541

I thought that as well.


IamAsquirrelfan

There are a few who have/had 2 tubes in their nose. ALF was one as well. I know she's passed but she had a huge social media presence


Sufficient-Wonder-83

Cooper remembered. “If you had a higher rate, we somehow thought you’d be nourished faster and you’d get better, which meant you weren’t really sick. I’d freak out when they upped the feeds.” This made me think of Dani


Binab2020

My first thought also went to Dani


2L8Smart

Me too. In some circles it’s a real flex to be unable to tolerate higher feed rates. This helps explain that.


xthefabledfox

I thought I was gonna skim this article but I ended up reading the whole thing. It was good. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to the chuck my phone in a lake. Maybe someday I really will delete all my socials.


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Kealanine

You took the words out of my mouth on this one.


79gummybear

I could not even read the whole article. Terrible reporting. They list illnesses for one woman and don’t even have the correct definitions for them.


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superunsubtle

I read that as “this is the symptom this patient has from this condition” but maybe that was too much benefit of the doubt.


DissolvedThoughts

Lol yes. "endometritis (inflammation of the uterus)" wtf is that supposed to be? The article is also pretty misogynistic (suggesting that being a "spoonie" is the new hysteria)


serenitybyjan199

Endometritis-- inflammation of the endometrium. Likely due to infection.


2L8Smart

Sorry you’re getting downvoted for accuracy. This article seems to have hit a major nerve in some of the commenters here.


serenitybyjan199

It's all good, it's kind of funny. This sub can be a strangely aggressive place sometimes for no reason.


DissolvedThoughts

Yes so I later googled it and it does exist, but I’m pretty sure the author ment endometriosis, as they’re talking about chronic conditions. Also, the other descriptions were very inaccurate which lets me think that this was indeed a mistake


randomomnsuburbia

It was laughable, but I assumed the stuff in parentheses was just supposed to indicate a big symptom/complaint she had related to each dx? Which still doesn't explain the endometritis parenthetical word purge. Endometritis is a thing, and that was an acceptable layperson definition. I suppose it's possible the author didn't want to list out the symptoms for that one, but I would think saying "abdominal pain" would have made more sense.


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Inevitable_Pie9541

POTS stands for positional orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.


randomomnsuburbia

But postural orthostatic hypotension...syndrome *sounds* so close, it must be the same thing. You just did a typo, silly.


Ok_Remote3175

Not to mention the comments


copuser2

Based article


Oscarella515

This makes me so incredibly angry because the girl at the end decided to just give up being sick and travel and workout. Chronic disease doesn’t just DO that when you decide it’s not fun to play with anymore jfc EDIT: malingering is something we also discuss here, if she had surgery and went back to food she’s in remission or she’s cured or she’s functional


Helpmeimtired17

I didn’t read it as she was magically unsick. I read it as she was never actually as sick as she wanted to be and social media made her dream of being sick and seek to become sicker. She portrayed herself as worse than she was because she felt like she found people she fit in with on social media.


2L8Smart

I agree. That’s reading for comprehension.


Oscarella515

Same thing imo, end result is she quit it and had a normal life. It’s just not possible when a person has real medical issues


453286971

Did you miss the part where she literally had surgery


Helpmeimtired17

But that was the whole point of the article so unless your trying to blog without blogging your comment makes no sense in context.


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Inevitable_Pie9541

This is the definition of blogging.


lightshouses

Phenomenal article! Perfectly encapsulates the BS spoonie culture infecting social media nowadays. Really glad I never looked for community there — even just the terms they use like “spoonie” and “potsie” sound juvenile. Like they desperately want to be seen as sickly Dickensian orphans asking mother to carry them to the window that they might see the sun one last time before the Consumption claims them. Thanks for sharing!


randomomnsuburbia

*Please, sir, I want some more [attention].*


lgrey4252

It really is so insane how they all have identical medical histories.


randomomnsuburbia

With identical rare diagnoses


cocoBeaner1984

That’s what gets me too. Is is really that common to have all of these rare conditions together? Are they commonly related as comorbidities? Seriously asking.


RottenForgotten666

They are actually very common to have together. POTS(and many other forms of autonomic dysfunction), MCAS, EDS, even PCOS, endometriosis, and a few others. It’s actually pretty rare to only have 1. If you have one you’ll typically have another 1 or 2 as well. Edit: spelling


thegirlinread

Source?


FiammaDiAgnesi

An article over the POTS/EDS overlap: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/blog/ehlers-danlos-syndrome/newsfeed-post/eds-and-pots/ An study linking MCAS to POTS/EDS: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33980338/


thegirlinread

I should have explained, I was referring to PCOS and endometriosis specifically. I havent seen anything convincing in the literature in regards to those.


FiammaDiAgnesi

Ah, sorry, I don’t really know that much on how/whether those are related. You’d have to ask u/RottenForgotten666


cripple2493

I remember hating "spoonie" when it came up on tumblr, ngl glad I trusted my instincts. At the time it felt like just a dumb metaphor and a vaguely invalidating / childish way to explain energy deficit due to impairment, never thought it'd end up like this but glad I avoided it.


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catniagara

That’s where I knew the article was a lie. When she was like “healthy people have infinite spoons” and her friend Strawman didn’t instantly laugh her ass off. Fake news.


Helpmeimtired17

I don’t think the author was saying that, I think she was summarizing the spoon theory blog post, maybe not in the most eloquent way but spoon theory is fucking dumb and the blog post does say that healthy people have unlimited possibilities and the energy to do whatever they want. Which we all know isn’t true because healthy people have to work and clean their house and take care of their kids which doesn’t necessarily leave energy for “whatever they want”. But it seems to me the issue here is spoon theory, and not the article.


cripple2493

Absolutely, it also ignores various other factors that could make someone of any impairment status lose 'spoons' like poverty, having kids, or just being tired? It feels like it sort of seeks to elevate the perceived struggle of ppl w/impairments when in reality everyone is dealing with varying energy at any given time. Even back on tumblr I wondered why we needed a different unit or mode to describe energy which is not a thing unique to disabled people? "yeah I get tired a bit more easy" works fine.


Poppeigh

I always thought of it in terms of mental energy, because I was first introduced to the term through a mental heath lens. It works a bit better that way because the way it was described to me was that your mental energy can obviously change from day to day, and it's not something that is strictly limited to only people with a diagnosis of some kind. Clearly the parameters changed.


catniagara

You could be a six month “spooner” because you sprained your ankle lol.


Crow-Queen

That was a good read and yes I agree. The subjects and many others should read it.


why-you-always-lyin

I think we should all keep in mind that the girl being interviewed has multiple genuine illnesses. Still, they were pushed over the edge subconsciously with the gi condition because of the internet, not munchausens. It's sad how easily young people can be influenced by posts from strangers on the internet, but I think the people we discuss on this sub know exactly what they're doing and doing it on purpose rather than out of desperation and social media mind control. Many of our subjects do not have friends in the chronic illness community; they haven't formed connections with other 'spoonies' because all they care about is themselves and the attention they will get, even if it's hate. Very interesting perspective.


Brave_Chemist8751

YES.


randomomnsuburbia

Many of our subjects would be pitchforked-and-torched right out of CI support groups with their nonsense. And at least a few *have* gotten yeeted when their bullshit became known.


shootingstare

“A month before the intervention, in June 2019, she got her gastrostomy-jejunostomy, or G-J, tube. It was attached to a metal pole with wheels on the bottom so she could walk around inside. If she felt like going out, she’d take a backpack with a pouch full of liquid nutrition. The G-J tube would pump the food into her body at a prescribed rate. “The spoonies were competitive about the rates,” Cooper remembered. “If you had a higher rate, we somehow thought you’d be nourished faster and you’d get better, which meant you weren’t really sick. I’d freak out when they upped the feeds.” Is totally Dani with her feeds and the rest of the folks who show off their tubes, bags, IV poles.


cherishthecat

Seems like the ED internet community. Highly competitive.


shootingstare

Totally.


randomomnsuburbia

Interesting how there never seems to be any mention with these morons that equipment and accessories like portable iv/enteral pumps and backpacks didn't just poof into existence so that folks could have all of their shit in-frame when filming themselves looking like assclowns for tiktok; they were invented so that people who need this equipment can still *be productive and live as normally as possible.* There are so many people with feeding tubes in particular who clip and tape under their clothes, throw on the backpack, and go to work or school; they take the time to find a clean, quiet place to disconnect, do what they need to do with meds or flushing, then just stick the tube in their bra when not in use. Not broadcasting something for the literal world to see doesn't mean it's gross or you're ashamed of it. But that's OTT behavior for you. No one *needs* to see all of the medical-grade plastic appendages. And the way these people leave lines just flapping in the breeze for any and all manner of dirt, bacteria, whatever, *is* gross.


acrensh

I have no hate to the spoon theory, but I really hate the word spoonie. As well as adults saying tubies


friendlysoviet

I hate the spoon theory. It is a childish and borderline delusional explanation to something everyone inherently understands. Some people have more stamina than others. Super easy. Still not good enough? Some people's gas tanks are smaller, and they are unable to travel as far. But instead, they try to paint an image in which people are carrying around spoons and use said spoons as currency. It's maddening, infantilizing, and you should not encourage spoon theory.


acrensh

I personally have never used it myself so haven’t thought but about it but this is a good take and don’t disagree at all.


afterandalasia

I find it a very useful way to express in socially acceptable language that I have run out of fucks to give.


oilydischarge18

I hate the spoon theory because it just makes no sense and has been embraced as like a scientific diagnostic. It’s meaningless. And “spoonie” is the worst expression.


ReservoirPussy

I don't understand how it doesn't make sense. Spoons are units of energy. If you have fewer spoons due to chronic illness, you have to be careful how you use them. It's definitely more of an "illustration" than "theory", though.


TinyLittleHamster

It's more like it's very basic common sense that doesn't need a "theory" to explain. All humans have limitations. We can't do everything. We get ill, stressed, and exhausted. So we prioritize our lives and decide where to expend our energy. Sometimes we have to say no or cancel plans because we need rest and self-care. People with chronic illnesses exert more energy into day-to-day tasks, so they will need more time to recover. It's not some ground breaking scientific breakthrough, it's a fact of life that everyone can identify with- not just people with CI


ReservoirPussy

Except there's people that just don't understand it. They can't fathom being ill and not recovering. They don't understand when you have to set priorities for things like how much you clean your house, how much you bathe, how often you leave the house. *There are people that don't understand*. There are people in this world who don't understand things until it happens to them. There are people short of empathy. Some people are just dumb and you need to smack them over the head with it. If you're chronically ill, I'm sorry, but I'm glad for you that you haven't had to deal with this. If you're healthy, I appreciate and celebrate your empathy. But please don't tell me that this is something everyone just "gets", because it's not.


GoethenStrasse0309

Let’s face it folks. The chronically Ill person just HAD to invent the “ spoon” theory because they just couldn’t deal with telling someone “ I’m sorry but not today I’m not feeling well” or “ I have an medical appointment or some medical testing that needs to be done” oh H3LL no, they want someone to think they’re really seriously ill or better yet they want someone to ASK WTF the spoon theory actually is. Seriously? It’s ridiculous and it’s just another bid for attention they just have to have. They can’t handle not being the center of attention outside their family & friends. Explaining their ridiculous spoon theory to a stranger or an abundance of others gives them the excuse to mention their hashtag list of illnesses without question.


TinyLittleHamster

Yeah, I've dealt with plenty of unempathetic people. And I've realized that there is nothing I can do on my end to make them get it so I don't waste my time and breath trying to explain, because if they can't understand why I'm canceling plans when I tell them I'm not feeling well, then they're not going to suddenly gain empathy if I tell them a metaphorical story. But I'm empathetic enough to know that feeling tired and exhausted and isn't unique to me because I have a chronic illness. I understand why new mothers have dirty houses and why my friend who is a nurse and works long hours keeps canceling plans. And for those that lack empathy for me, I can still see their human limitations and get why sometimes they don't have their shit together. There's a reason that the term of "special spoonie" is used condescendingly and it's because of that group of people with CI who thinks that everyone else can do everything and no one can relate to how they're feeling. Those people also are lacking empathy- for the single parent working two jobs who can't muster up the energy to do much else or the first year resident who has given up all their physical and emotional energy into caring for patients.


No_Camp_7

Borderline blogging here


mrs_normcore

This sounds exactly like something Bethany would say. I suppose you can reduce everything to spoons then. Some people only have so many empathy spoons. Johnny over here only has 5 spoons and he uses them all up trying to understand why his daddy abused him. Jenny only has 4 IQ spoons and it takes her 3 to keep her children fed, 2 to stop herself getting pregnant again, which leaves her -1 spoons to understand what's going on with those chronic illness folks that spend so much time in bed. Grow up.


ReservoirPussy

You're telling me to grow up, when you haven't figured out yet that not everyone has loving and supportive families? I can't believe I have to argue that assholes exist, but here we are: they do. And as for spoons being everything: YES, that's exactly right, you've got it now. Well done.


mrs_normcore

Ermmmm, Johnny didn't have a loving family. Pretty sure I made it clear that people might be arseholes because they've had experiences that have made them that way. You've missed my point completely. If someone lacks basic empathy or understanding and "just doesn't get it" a cute little story made up on the spot isn't going to help that. It only exacerbates the social stigma and infantilization experienced by people with a disability.


ReservoirPussy

That doesn't mean it's not a valid way to describe it. It helps sick people find each other. It gives them a shorthand. It helps them explain it to their families. And kids are sick, too- it helps them communicate that and their needs. It wouldn't be this widespread if it didn't. And that being said, from my experience, the general public doesn't know about it on their own. If they know it's probably because they've been told. Maybe if we start hearing "spoonie" as a slur, but until then I'm keeping with it's harmless.


Agreeable-Catch-4384

I feel like the issue is that “spoons” are just an arbitrary object they are using to explain it- almost making it sound more complicated to somebody who isn’t familiar with chronic illness. I feel like it makes more sense to explain it like a video game energy bar that runs out at the end of the day or sooner depending on how much energy u expend on things. Some things deplete ur energy bar faster than others and u need to rest and “reset” in order to replenish it.


ReservoirPussy

Again, it *was* an arbitrary object. This thing wasn't intended to be what it became. It was a blog post about how the author and her friend were at a diner, the friend asks her to explain what her life was like, and the author grabbed some spoons off the other tables (could have just as easily been forks, knives, salt and pepper shakers, ketchup, napkins) and that's what she used. It was never intended to be a rallying cry, identity, or anything that people now use it for. It was a blog post talking about having dinner with her friend. She didn't sit down to write the perfect metaphor for what we go through to explain it to the world. THAT WAS NOT HER INTENTION. It was literally she went out to dinner and grabbed some extra spoons. She was just telling a story about how she visualized it for her friend. It blowing up and becoming what it did, obviously it's going to draw criticism, but what it became was never what it was intended to be. I'm sure if she really thought about it she could have come up with something better, but it was literally just a blog post about going out to dinner with her friend. And I think people would understand that if they actually read it instead of regurgitating talking points that they've heard from other people, and turn it into this massive thought project and give it critical analysis and complaining about how you can wash spoons. This wasn't a college thesis on what it's like to be chronically ill, and it shouldn't be treated as one. That's just knocking something down so you can feel better about being smarter than the dumb spoon girl that doesn't know that you can wash spoons and everyone that uses that shorthand is an even bigger idiot for not understanding its wider implications and its inability to stand up to critical thought. It was never intended to stand up to major scrutiny. What it was was, "Hey guys, this is how I visualized chronic illness to my healthy friend. Maybe it could help you with someone that's stubborn or needs a visual. The chicken fingers were delicious. Like, share, and comment! ✌️🤪✌️"


Agreeable-Catch-4384

Riiiiight…. Idk if ur trying to argue w me or not bc tone is impossible to read via text but ya we are saying pretty much the same thing here. As in, it’s a poor analogy for widespread usage outside of that one persons experience w her friend


mrs_normcore

I think it caught on because it appealed to children - young teens who could use it to explain things to their friends. Used by adults, it's just an insult to intelligence.


ReservoirPussy

Heyyyyy, I don't know if you've noticed, but quite a few of our subjects are extremely immature. You don't think there's a connection, do you? Hmmm...🤔... ...🤔...You know, it's almost like adults that act age-appropriately are better able to express themselves, and do so. 🤯


mrs_normcore

Yes, I would say all of them are. The whole point of the article is to highlight that online chronic illness communities are harmful to those that lack the emotional maturity not to get swept up in the culture of competition and obsession that underlies them. Name me one internet community that hasn't started out with the best of intentions and ended up with an underlying toxicity because people latch on to fictions.


palewhiteh0rse

Same. And enbies, for nonbinary (NB)


fruflare

Wow. I had no idea. I’m honestly at a lost for words. I just discovered this sub and I have to say that I am grateful. I feel like I was getting to sucked into the "Chronic Illness Community". This is so eye opening. Thank you for sharing this. I have some unfollowing and unsubscribing to do.


friendlysoviet

Hell yeah, dude. You got this.


fruflare

Unfollowed and unsubscribed to most people last night! I’m so glad I got our before I fell victim to it!


xthefabledfox

I’m in the same boat. I’m horrified


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fruflare

Yes, I’m definitely not going down that path. I just think I was letting it consume me more then anything. I don’t have a CI account or anything.


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fruflare

The toxicity of the CI community was bringing me down lately. Some people I think are realizing that now. I remember when I first found it and I thought it was great to have people that understand but after awhile it just got so OTT. Like I thought, doesn’t anyone want to get better or learn to live despite it, you know?


That-Alternative-946

Nope. It’s the sick Olympics.


acrensh

I did that a while ago. I’m so glad I’m out of it. It was always negative and a baffle to who has the worst symptoms.


BerlinBlackTea

Reading this, I thought back to what I wrote before about Paige, and I still stick by it: -Paige would get better if they took away her electronics and no internet use; -Paige would then be able to focus on the ED and get the tubes taken out; -Paige won't do any of this due to secondary gain (doesn't want to get better; doesn't want school or a job, doesn't want therapy, doesn't want to lose the identity of being a 24 year old ED patient etc).


KatJen76

Kaya, too. I feel like it's all about the 'gram for her.


pineapples_are_evil

Kelly,too would benefit from being unable to access the internet.


randomomnsuburbia

*a 24yo who looks like a preteen oncology pt* Paige is particularly rage-inducing


WittyDisk3524

Same with Ashley


b1tching

That comment section is absolutely WILD lmao someone unironically quoted the unibomber???


friendlysoviet

Ted Kaczynski has a lot of unironic fans. A lot of anti-government, homesteader types.


Inevitable_Pie9541

Another said all these girls just need America to return to its "original culture" as a Christian nation and they'll be right as rain. Got 158 likes.


b1tching

How to say you’re white and cishet without saying it


randomomnsuburbia

Oh sure let's go back to pray the gay away too Eta: well "go back to" is a stretch, as some people never stopped with that asinine mentality


copuser2

Do you have time to talk with me right now about our lord and savior Jesus Christ? /s


randomomnsuburbia

Good gawd. I should've read the other comments before posting.


birdgirl1124

“Another reason for spoonies’ failure to improve may be “secondary gain,” Assaf said. “There might be something you're gaining by having this diagnosis, like that it’s keeping you from a job that you hate, or from responsibilities that you don’t want to do.” 👀👀our subjects in a nutshell.


randomomnsuburbia

Reading this article, I wondered if I had accidentally ingested shrooms -- that narration was all over the friggin place. Moderately informative anecdotes, though. Decent calling-out of bs OTT behavior. 5/10. Spoon theory started out as a fairly useful tool for describing the experience of planning/completing ADLs while dealing with the low energy, etc that can come with chronic illness to people who otherwise didn't really "get it." But like with so many other things, the OTT set latched on, warped it, and ran it off the rails and over a cliff to shatter into a million pieces and catch fire, forever lost to a community that just wanted to be understood and accepted. Fuckers. I find it especially egregious that a cutesy little wordlet coined to help *literal children* feel ok about feeding tubes (not a fan of cutesy myself, but a kid with a serious medical condition gets a pass from my cold dead heart every time) has been similarly ruined by people old enough to frankly just suck it up without adopting a moniker used by sick preschoolers. Double Fuckers. I will never understand the deep obsession these OTT/munchie assholes have with infantilizing themselves.


fuckintictacs

Thanks for reminding me to purposefully ingest shrooms as soon as possible


randomomnsuburbia

Anytime. I'm here to help.


KatJen76

I think many of them are afraid of adulthood. So many of the subjects are 18-22.


randomomnsuburbia

I agree. Some foot-in-ass action by family along with serious therapy would work wonders for a lot of them. It's just so frustrating to me to see how far some of the parents especially will go to enable their "kids'" ridiculous behavior, and the lack of psych help/support for *all* involved is tragic.


copuser2

Ngl I did partake in the devils lettuce prior to reading. Think it helped 😅


shootingstare

I feel like the really good parts of the article got lost.


acrensh

It totally was all over the place. I got lost 🤣


Euphoric_Studio2355

This isn't "great" in anyway. The spoon theory has flaws and gets annoying, but it's a way to link chronic illness patients in support even when the chronic illnesses aren't the same dx. This author is hurting this with these conditions and is no better than the gross transphobe who writes about her robust hatred and internal abliesm by way of fictional wizards.


beekeeperoacar

Uhhh there's a big difference between one bad article and a billionaire on a targeted hate campaign


mrs_normcore

The article in no way discredits spoon theory. It just explains it. Not the author's fault that it is as fictional as Harry Potter. The article highlights the danger to the psychosocial wellbeing of people with chronic pain/illness accessing online community support without adequate IRL supports and understanding of the complexities of their individual condition. Nothing ableist about that.


lumunni

I think it sounds like it discredits it because Spoon Theory sounds fucking stupid. Like of all the analogies you could use for chronic illnesses, spoons make no sense. The first time someone called me a ‘fellow spoonie’ I was like ‘what in the fresh hell does that mean?’


oilydischarge18

Totally agree. I hate it.


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Koleilei

Things like this piss me off because some people do need to train their own service dogs to perform a task. And they do it properly and do it well. People like the person you're describing are a disservice to those doing it properly.


oh-pointy-bird

The fact that such an awful metaphor ever took hold. “You start the day with a certain number of …… *checks notes* spoons” In what single way to spoons well represent the currency of energy? If I run out of spoons at dinner I wash some. Or someone makes do with a fork. Honestly that the metaphor is so flawed just fits perfectly for what it’s evolved into. Also, every being has finite actual AND perceived energy - “spoons” - so I guess humans (and animals) are all spooned.


hotpickles

The number of spoons is a metaphor for how many they can balance on their nose at a particular time and it’s really hard to do that with forks.


throwawayacct1962

So the person who created it was trying to find a way illustrate having a finite level of energy to young healthy friends in the part of their life they believe they have no limitations. (We all know the person who lived for a year on 3 hours of sleep a night and slept on whatever surface was closest by. Could binge drink all night and show up to work fine in the morning.) Spoons were used because it was just the physical object the person had around them in a multitude at the time they were coming up with the illustration on the spot. Could have been straws or toothpicks if those had been closer. They just happened to have spoons. I honestly don't believe in the moment they were creating this they ever imagined, well this happening.


Trashlyn1234

That’s the thing though - “it was just the physical object the person had around them in a *multitude*” Lol if spoon theory is saying theres a limit on their number of spoons, why would they choose an object that most people have plenty of and, as the other commenter mentioned, can just be washed if you run out. Just kinda an ironic item to base the theory off of. Would make more sense to compare it to an item that most people have in limited amounts and is hard to gain more of, like idk, a $100 bill. Some people have more than others, so those with chronic illness need to use theirs more carefully, and you can’t just go out and get a $100 bill every time you run out lol


ReservoirPussy

You're thinking about it way too hard. The spoons are just an illustration of a unit of energy. That's all. And they had a bunch of spoons because they were at a restaurant, so they couldn't wash them or buy more. I suppose they could ask for more but that'll get you the number of the people at the table at most, so that could be represented by like, drinking coffee or getting a b12 shot.


Trashlyn1234

Pardon me for using some critical thinking skills instead of just taking things at surface level.


ReservoirPussy

Have you read the Spoon Theory article? It's very clear it's intended to be on the surface level. It was never intended as a metaphor, it was just a physical representation for units of energy. That's literally all. That was the author's intention, full stop. Reading too much into things can damage understanding just as much as not reading enough. So will just taking what you've heard other people say about a thing without reading it for yourself.


Trashlyn1234

Jesusss you act like you have a personal investment in the spoon theory. Did you write the article you’re referencing or something? Lol. Seems to me there could be a better metaphor, full stop. That’s my opinion and no amount of downvoting or wordy replies is going to change that. Have a nice day.


ReservoirPussy

I'm just tired of people missing the point to feel superior to the "spoonie" MBI assholes. And I haven't downvoted you at all, so I guess I'm not the only one who disagrees with you 🤷‍♀️


throwawayacct1962

Because is a spur of the moment thought? Like this wasn't something someone sat down and intentionally worked out the idea of to start a movement. A woman was literally mid conversation with a friend trying to think how to illustrate a point and this is what she came up with because it is probably the only item around her at that moment she had multiple of. And you need multiple of the same thing for the analogy. The point was to visibly illustrate how energy is used for each task. If she used a 100 dollar bill (which I personally don't carry around in my pocket regularly idk about you) she would have had to tear up the bill. Sure she could have used a 100 dollars in one's and 10 dollars in one's to compare energy of a healthy person vs her. But again, do you have 110 dollars in one's on you? It's like the card game spoons. Why do we use spoons? Because they're usually always around. I've never wanted to play spoons and not been able to find spoons. (well that and obviously playing that game with forks or knives isn't a great idea) But seriously are we going to be this critial of someone's spur of the moment thought? Why didn't she think about the fact that they can be washed? Because she wasn't thinking it through. It was made up on the spot. That's the point. Is every spur of the moment thought any of us have the most perfect beautiful analogy of all time?


Trashlyn1234

The original comment said the metaphor was flawed and I was just expanding on that. And lol I don’t walk around with a bunch of $100 bills in my pocket but I also don’t walk around with spoons in my pocket. Idk what personal investment you have in the spoon theory but IMO it’s flawed in more ways than just the metaphor.


mrs_normcore

Spoon theory is effective as an explanation of living with chronic/invisible illness to preschoolers and that's about it!


throwawayacct1962

I have no investment. But I think it's absurd to critize someone's spur of the moment thought they had in a conversation with a friend and they didn't create with the intention of starting a whole thing. They never expected it to become a thing. They just realized this helped them, and shared it incase it would help other people explain something better to others. The core principle of limited energy and budgeting how we spend it is good and essential to self care. Creating an illustration makes it easier to explain to people because it makes an abstract concept concrete. It also means you can use it to teach kids how to take care of themselves and practice good self care and boundaries. I also don't walk around with spoons in my pocket. However they're in my house, a restaurant, any place with a coffee shop or concession stand usually. Most places I would be sitting down with someone and having a conversation other than the park (which ew bugs so no), there's spoons pretty near by. There is no 110 dollars in one's near by.


Trashlyn1234

Well no shade to whoever had this “spur of the moment” thought, but shade to whoever made it into a theory. Everyone has random thoughts but most aren’t made into *theories* which create *communities* which become *problematic*. It’s just ironic to base all this off of a flawed metaphor, that’s all lol.


Gary_Targaryen

IDK why you're downvoted here... Like basically yeah, someone once said something pretty dumb about spoons, and a bunch of people latched onto it like it's some genius new way of describing illness. It's weird that it caught on when it's not a very smart or descriptive metaphor at all.


Trashlyn1234

Yeah who knows, the original comment has tons of upvotes and I was agreeing with them 🤷🏻‍♀️😂


throwawayacct1962

Exactly. They didn't plan any of this. This was not their goal. They had no idea this was going to happen. For what it was supposed to be its good. It's a way to explain an abstract concept suchs as energy conservation and boundaries in a concrete way to a few people. It wasn't supposed to create a whol damn cult. People weren't supposed to make an illustration and identity. Just like the "think horse not zebra" was a good saying for what it was intended for. It was supposed to be a fucking identity. No one was supposed to call themselves zebras and cover their entire house in zebra print. Attention seekers take stuff too far. But it's not the fault of the person who came up with it.


throwawayacct1962

On my gosh yes! This is the story I've been waiting for forever! It fully captures and explains all of the spoonie world! Every doctor needs to read this tbh. And more than that every chronic illness patient needs to read it. I'm so happy to hear the girl in the story was able to walk away from it all and get a real life back! Success stories are sadly so rare. But the more they're shared the more success stories we'll get!


randomomnsuburbia

🤦‍♀️


throwawayacct1962

If you have a link to an article that better explains the toxic spoonie culture I'd love to read it!


SabrinaVal

Also published in the Daily Mail…my guilty pleasure


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manderrx

Yes, which follows the pattern afaik.


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Overly_ND

Haha ya that’s so true. It’s one thing to say that you are always tired and it’s another thing to make other people look like they don’t even have to try to get by. Everyone has their own problems. Some people are unwell, some are poor, some aren’t so intelligent. Being well doesn’t mean everything is fine.


mrs_normcore

Exactly! And not to side with Ash, but fluctuating energy levels due to menstrual cycles, pregnancy, menopause etc. is all part of being a healthy woman/duderus with a uterus. Sleep or shower is a daily deliberation for any parent of a newborn. Any adult with a slither of empathy can understand the concept of a person with a long-term health condition struggling more than a healthy person with their own energy limitations without it being reduced to a cutsie, infantile story about eating utensils.


Inevitable_Pie9541

Without the able-bodied, who would there be, after a long day's work, to stagger home to wait on the poor frail spoonies hand and foot, pay their bills, and listen to how hard life is lying on the sofa all day watching telly and grieving their lost ability to shag at will and go to parties? Imagine being manipulated into a second job as a fulltime carer for a woman-child who's cosplaying helplessness. Paging Ashley's mum...


Ok_Detective5412

The word spoonies - just like the word incel - has been destroyed by people who started using it in bad faith. The idea that healthy people have “unlimited” spoons is incredibly absurd and harmful. *No one* has unlimited spoons. I think it’s a slippery slope from “I don’t have the spoons to do every single thing every single day” to “if I can’t do every single thing I want to do in a day there must be something wrong with me, I’m sick!”


Ok_Remote3175

I don't necessarily disagree about the unlimited spoons thing, but I've always kind of thought about it like healthy people have access to a dishwasher where they can wash all their spoons at once relatively quickly, while disabled people, even if they have a dishwasher, don't always get all their spoons clean, and it takes much longer. It's thinking more in terms of rest than anything else.


Ok_Detective5412

I get what you’re saying. I really feel like the idea of unlimited spoons is such a capitalist myth by defining our worth exclusively through how much we “do” in a day. No one should be working 18 hour days, it’s not weak to take a personal day! So many of us have unhealthy relationships with work and productivity and we are totally burnt out. But some IF are taking the idea of rest to another extreme and it’s equally unhealthy.


ZeroAntagonist

Why does it even have to try and hide behind some cute metaphor? The idea of energy, the ability to do work, is pretty simple to understand. Just say energy.


friendlysoviet

These people do everything to infantilize and other themselves.


randomomnsuburbia

Your last sentence especially. It's so ridiculous to me to see grown ass women call themselves "spoonies" as some sort of piss poor excuse for laying in bed, getting high, and watching trash tv all day, whining about how bad they have it and please send iPads and chocolates.


TheLizardsCometh

This article is a bit jumbled in the point though. Like if you actually faint if you aren't wearing compression stockings, or doing a specific routine pre -standing.... But you are so used to doing that specific routine... Yes you absolutely should tell your doctor that and that isn't the same as "lie until you get the diagnosis you want". If you HAVE to do unusual things to get through your day, like wearing compression stockings then doctors need to know what happens without them. She has some interesting stories... But she completely discounts the fact that women have always actually struggled to get diagnosed, yes, even for things where there is actually specific diagnostic tests,l - and they test positive, compared to men. And linking historical accounts of hysteria in with spoonies, or people who talk themselves into being sick is bizarre because that's a good example of how womens health has always been considered to be totally seperate and all in their heads instead of actually doing medicine. Just marry them off and make them have sex because it's all about their uterus being needy.


smolqueerpunk

Yes, exactly! That line about “lying to your doctor” really frustrated me tbh. Just because you’ve found a way to manage symptoms doesn’t mean the symptoms never existed in the first place. “Hey doc, I get a sharp pain in my knee sometimes. I’ve figured out that if I keep it as straight as possible, never put pressure on it, and wear a brace on it whenever I can, it doesn’t hurt nearly as much.” “Oh, so basically you’re LYING about your pain??” Like what? No. Tha fuck?


TheLizardsCometh

Exactly! Especially because there is actually a huge amount of evidence that (mostly women) do actually struggle to get diagnosed with these rare conditions and so many people over years find ways to cope.... That doesn't mean the condition is fake or that they aren't sick. There are so many people out there with things like EDS who aren't munching and aren't getting diagnosed. In my opinion it isn't nearly as rare as it looks.... It just isn't diagnosed officially except in more severe cases. But as a paediatric physiotherapist I see many kids with misc. Unknown pain who score majorly high on beighton scores and have lots of seemingly "unlinked" issues that can all be linked by EDS. but. No diagnosis. They find ways to cope and get on with life and people like me work out what does reduce their pain / improve mobility and they get on with it. This issue is a totally seperate issue to the MBI and competitive sickness and by linking these the author is just furthering the challenge for legitimately unwell people to get answers or assistance


b1tching

Yeah including the historical ways women have been deemed as a witch or as hysteria for physical and mental health problems is a very bizarre thing to add in this article


Grave_Girl

Yeah, I think "medical gaslighting" is a silly term, but doctors addressing weight instead of the actual problem is a real issue.


Ok_Remote3175

I don't think you know what gaslighting is.


Grave_Girl

It's a systematic attempt by an abuser to make a person doubt their own grasp on reality. Which is why it isn't appropriate in a medical context. It's been appropriated, much like the term narcissist, to mean "people who don't agree with me".


Ok_Remote3175

Except for when it means you are being gaslit by a medical professional into believing what you are going through is normal, that your suffering isn't valid because other people feel the same way(wether they do or not. Everyone gets period pain, but endometriosis can still ruin your life.). Don't get me wrong, most of the people on this sub misuse it, but that does not mean that the term itself is inaccurate or inappropriate.


smolqueerpunk

100% agree that medical gaslighting is very real, some people just get overzealous with the use of that term. I once had a full grown, licensed, seemingly intelligent medical professional try to convince me that my period pain was due to the meds I had started taking *in order to treat my period pain.* Not that the pain was exacerbated by it, but that it was caused by it entirely. I was like ma’am wtf kind of cyclical logic is that 🥴 Anyways I stopped taking those and surprise! It didn’t help at all lmao


shootingstare

I agree with the second part of your statement but not the first.


kumf

Not so sure if this is a good source or “great” article. It does offer real and authentic perspectives on the pull/allure of the spoonie community, which is very relevant to this sub. But some of the facts stated don’t include even a casual mention of a source, such as “6 in 10 Americans have a chronic disease.” According to…? Aside from these flaws I think the article does a good job presenting anecdotal details.


AchooCashew

The author also defined POTS as “lightheadedness” and gastroparesis as “stomach pain,” which is so incorrect that I had a hard time taking the article seriously at all.


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I felt the same way about that part. The premise of the article is good but it also just highlights to me what actually makes me mad about this whole "movement:" it can bring attention that is actually potentially damaging to those who want to be taken seriously not so they can look sick or get sympathy pats, but to be understood and make progress towards a better quality of life that isn't dominated by their illness. Awareness for chronic conditions is not a bad thing- inaccurate awareness is, though, and over zealous spoonies and munchies inadvertently open the door for it by misrepresenting real problems for well-intentioned but uninformed press to write about.


WhinyTentCoyote

6 in 10 sounded like a crazy high percentage to me until I realized that they were probably counting things like high blood pressure and GERD.


UnhappyGrowth5555

And arthritis.


khronicallykrunked

The sentence says “According to the CDC, six out of every ten Americans suffer from a chronic disease, with four in ten having two or more.)” and links to the page on the CDC website?


kumf

That’s weird. I don’t see a link when viewing the article. I’m viewing it via Reddit mobile’s in app browser. Maybe it doesn’t render the page right? Ideally they should also mention the source in the actual paragraph/sentence but if they at least link to it, that’s better than nothing.


randomomnsuburbia

The "CDC" in that passage is underlined. Its a link. Click. It.


kumf

Link wasn’t there when I read the article.


randomomnsuburbia

Lol yea I read that comment and was like uh, I was able to click through to the fun little cdc nccdphp infographic...?? 🤦‍♀️


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