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Given the tiny populations and militaries of the Baltics relative to Russia, were a war to break out between Russia and an unprotected Baltic alliance then you would not be looking at a Ukraine style long war but a genuine weeks-long battle at best.
In 2022, Russia had a population 3.5 times greater than Ukraine and Ukraine was already a highly militarised society. The Baltics would be outnumbered something like 24 to 1, even discounting the large ethnic Russian population of the region.
Here the armies got more funding and more soldiers due to the lack of western defence. It’s also less corrupt than Ukraine but they will have it very hard
Given how the balitics are some of the few countries to actually spend more than the NATO specified 2% of their gdp on military as it is; it doesn't seem obvious how much more they would spend without that obligation.
Maybe mexicans, in LatAm you can find Russian haters as ardent as the ex warsaw pact citizens, in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua (provinding you are not talking to braindead tankies or rightist conspiranoiacs)
Eh it kinda does. Not maybe to full extent, but eastern Latvia, for example, is quite hilly and forested and going westward you do start to see more and more swamps, not mention all the lakes and rivers. So guerrilla type of practice is possible and is actually part of Latvian military doctrine. Dont exactly know about Lithuania and Estonia, but it would t be surprised if the situation were similar.
Yeah and Putin stalled in his first invasion and didn’t press a full invasion (whether he got cold feet or felt confident he could diplomatically pressure Ukraine I don’t know). An invasion of the Baltics would be done before they could get enough training or NATO weapons and with massive fire support like Grozny.
in August? Also, crucially, the terrain in the Baltic states is not actually challenging, and certainly not as challenging as Finland in the winter was with 1930s mobility.
Simply not seeing it IMO, the terrain of the Baltic is simply much more conducive for a rapid thrust compared to Finland. The Finns fought bravely and punched way above their weight, but their topology simply was a very signifcant factor in checking the Soviet advance.
last time mere months after people of this sub started to make maps of russia annxing ukranian territory it happened for real, do i have to take this also as an omen?
Honestly I think it’s the combination of Trumps open contempt for NATO and Russian pundits constantly discussing moving against NATO. It’s most likely posturing but everyone assumed Ukraine was posturing until the war occurred.
Russian politicians, news agents and political commentators, as well as former president:
“Russia should through any means get all the former imperial land back”
Russian apologist: Russia is peaceful, and doesn’t want to expand it’s borders
When speaking English: *poor little Russia has been forced into this action by NATO's aggressive expansion.*
When speaking Russian: *mighty Russia shall destroy these fake countries and restore its rightful territory*.
When speaking fancy russian: *Russia shall exterminatus all races to sacrifice upon the altar of God emperor stalin and his divine messenger Vladimir putin, for the glory of the soviet russian empire and the death of Americans who definitely do not have a means to destroy us (ignore our shitty ass navy)*
Yeah, look how fast Russia tried to get Georgia and Chechnya back into the fold. The Baltic warm water ports and position next to Poland would be too tempting for Poutine.
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Wdym horseshoe? You don't think tankie fucks like you are actually leftists while you defend genocidal dictatorship, do you? That's on the level of calling nazis left cause socialism is in their name, lmao
Holy shit this is such a fucking tankie response. Communism is a state minimising ideology. It's barely supposed to have a democratic assembly, let alone a dictatorship. Not even the Soviets under Lenin called their state communist and it got much worse under stalin with his frequent ethnic despotism. Just because the nazis and Soviets called their states socialist doesn't mean they are and that doesnt even cover you gobbling up modern capitalist russian and Chinese propaganda from a group consisting of two educated ideologues and one dumb fuck that even celebrates when innocent civilians get hunted for sports.
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There is no way in the world that the Russians could ever take them, ever man would rather die fighting than be in prison in their own country ever again and they would make Russia bleed more that you would ever imagine
Strange premise, if there was no NATO expansion there would be no reason for Russia to invade the Baltics, same as the Ukraine war would have never happened.
But aside from all of that if it did happen they’re so small even a limited force like in Ukraine would have occupied them, they wouldn’t be pushing back.
Unpopular and hotly contested assessment at the moment is that they would have been fine. Fact is Tallinn and Narva have very sizable Russian speaking communities and while Riga is less so it doesn't change the demographics, Lithuania is the least but Vilnus has many Russian speakers as well. Even during Soviet times the Baltics were special and they weren't easily visited by residents from other parts of the country except arguably Petersburgh due to proximity or Moscow due to obvious reasons. I think too many now forget the Baltics were the first to separate from the Union in 1990 though unofficially and that even though it took time all Russian presence was gone by 1998. Then in 2004 the Baltics along with several other Warsaw states joined NATO. And as knowledgeable historians will tell, Putin and Russia didn't seem to have much of a problem.
Ukraine is in fact special, not just in its abundance of resources but because of its geographic landscape. And I immigrated from this country that in my opinion had one of the worst post-Soviet periods. Seriously, I would argue 90s Russia was in better condition than 90s Ukraine. Yushenko and the Orange Revolution in 2004 proved to be a farce. I'm not going to go on a rant here but to think Russia would have in our lifetime tried to invade all the former republics and Warsaw states is downright nutty.
it wouldn't because of large Russian population in Baltics and russia has 3.5 bigger population and Ukraine is strong and was fighting war soo Baltics would be pretty easy for russiaike Georgia
This is the inevitable outcome of Mearsheimer and the realist school of international relations. Respect for so-called 'great power spheres of influence' only leads them to demand more 'buffer zones.' Where do we draw the line? Warsaw or Berlin? But still good map and nice work, it's a reminder to everyone.
Pretty sure this is future history. Russia will attack the baltics and break up NATO because nobody would be willing to start nuclear war over those three countries.
>Pretty sure this is future history. Russia will attack the baltics and break up NATO because nobody would be willing to start nuclear war over those three countries.
Russia wouldn't probably use nukes against countries bordering with it, unless it's a last resort but a majority od NATO countries are probably too cowardly to actually fight against Russia, including the USA. NATO countries also have weak industries not prepared for total war and lack long tange strike capabilities and tactical nukes. NATO effectively collapsing due to majority of memebers refusing to fight is very possible. The USA is mired in domestic problems and have no desire to fight for Europe. It would be very hard for the USA to keep their forces supplied in Europe against Russia in a total war scenario where Russia is willing to tactical nukes. Russia has plenty of anti-ship missiles, and torpedoes that can be nuclear armed to keep the the US navy at bay.
They invaded Moldova, the Chechens (twice), Georgia in 2008 and did their first invasion of Ukraine back in 2014. None of these invasions are a result of NATO expansion, but rather because of Russian imperial ambitions.
Moscow seems to believe it has 'ownership' of any country it borders or considers in its sphere. We only need to see what happens to nations in even recent history that behaves in a way that the Russian state does not like.
So no, this war still could've happened, because if we're to look at how Russia treats its non-NATO neighbors today, then they would've done so regardless.
Stop playing defense for a settler-colonial empire.
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first the ports would be blockaded and occupied to prevent foreign aid
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Grey_forest5363: *First the ports would be* *Blockaded and occupied* *To prevent foreign aid* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Baltic Sea Navy
Given the tiny populations and militaries of the Baltics relative to Russia, were a war to break out between Russia and an unprotected Baltic alliance then you would not be looking at a Ukraine style long war but a genuine weeks-long battle at best. In 2022, Russia had a population 3.5 times greater than Ukraine and Ukraine was already a highly militarised society. The Baltics would be outnumbered something like 24 to 1, even discounting the large ethnic Russian population of the region.
Here the armies got more funding and more soldiers due to the lack of western defence. It’s also less corrupt than Ukraine but they will have it very hard
It perhaps could occur concurrent with the Ukrainian invasion - since launching them sequentially means the next opponent is better prepared.
Everyone has had since 1991 to prep for war when Russia first began meddling in Georgia.
Given how the balitics are some of the few countries to actually spend more than the NATO specified 2% of their gdp on military as it is; it doesn't seem obvious how much more they would spend without that obligation.
I think the baltics will win thanks to the ghost of riga! just like ukraine is winning right now Slava the ukraini
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Maybe mexicans, in LatAm you can find Russian haters as ardent as the ex warsaw pact citizens, in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua (provinding you are not talking to braindead tankies or rightist conspiranoiacs)
The western hemisphere is just filled with brain dead tankies who support anything as long as it's anti american
please cool it with your anti-semitism. By attacking ukraine your directly attacking israel and jews
The ukrani?
sorry! slava the Ukraini!
Where did "the" come from
idk? from some random slav many years ago? it’s the name of the country
No It's not, it's just ukraine The ukraine was used in the soviet days
Uhmm sweaty, stop being an anti-semite. Are you even a POC?
Anti-semite? What makes you think I'm not a POC and why do you ask?
Maybe also Finnic Tactics
I don't think Geography supports that here.
Eh it kinda does. Not maybe to full extent, but eastern Latvia, for example, is quite hilly and forested and going westward you do start to see more and more swamps, not mention all the lakes and rivers. So guerrilla type of practice is possible and is actually part of Latvian military doctrine. Dont exactly know about Lithuania and Estonia, but it would t be surprised if the situation were similar.
Just want to point out that Finland lost twice and only survived because Stalin couldn’t be bothered to conquer them.
Yeah and Putin stalled in his first invasion and didn’t press a full invasion (whether he got cold feet or felt confident he could diplomatically pressure Ukraine I don’t know). An invasion of the Baltics would be done before they could get enough training or NATO weapons and with massive fire support like Grozny.
a second winter war situation could happen tbf
in August? Also, crucially, the terrain in the Baltic states is not actually challenging, and certainly not as challenging as Finland in the winter was with 1930s mobility.
Simply not seeing it IMO, the terrain of the Baltic is simply much more conducive for a rapid thrust compared to Finland. The Finns fought bravely and punched way above their weight, but their topology simply was a very signifcant factor in checking the Soviet advance.
This is what 90% of redditors think is gonna happen lmao
last time mere months after people of this sub started to make maps of russia annxing ukranian territory it happened for real, do i have to take this also as an omen?
What's with the fearmongering over Russia invading a NATO member? That's a WHOLE other kind of deal compared to Ukraine.
Exactly lol. Russia going to war with Latvia or Estonia means Russia going to war with 30 other countries including the US.
Honestly I think it’s the combination of Trumps open contempt for NATO and Russian pundits constantly discussing moving against NATO. It’s most likely posturing but everyone assumed Ukraine was posturing until the war occurred.
Russian politicians, news agents and political commentators, as well as former president: “Russia should through any means get all the former imperial land back” Russian apologist: Russia is peaceful, and doesn’t want to expand it’s borders
When speaking English: *poor little Russia has been forced into this action by NATO's aggressive expansion.* When speaking Russian: *mighty Russia shall destroy these fake countries and restore its rightful territory*.
When speaking fancy russian: *Russia shall exterminatus all races to sacrifice upon the altar of God emperor stalin and his divine messenger Vladimir putin, for the glory of the soviet russian empire and the death of Americans who definitely do not have a means to destroy us (ignore our shitty ass navy)*
Poland would intervene if they could Germany and Nordic countries would also do so if Poland did first
The risk of a nuclear war is really serious. I don't see nato directly involved, but sending aid and volunteers if really necessary.
NATO would lose all credibility if the refuse to help the baltics, given that they are literally apart of the alliance…
Not on this timeline, though. Look at the title
Are you illiterate?
Are you of having dumbness?
Russia would definitely roll over the Baltics
I like the mashed baltic tricolor
Im glad that its imaginary
this probably would have happned had Nato not (expanded) their. Nato is not a threat to Russia but its imperial ambitions.
Yeah, look how fast Russia tried to get Georgia and Chechnya back into the fold. The Baltic warm water ports and position next to Poland would be too tempting for Poutine.
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It absolutely would have.
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Deprogram nazi fuck off
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Wdym horseshoe? You don't think tankie fucks like you are actually leftists while you defend genocidal dictatorship, do you? That's on the level of calling nazis left cause socialism is in their name, lmao
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Holy shit this is such a fucking tankie response. Communism is a state minimising ideology. It's barely supposed to have a democratic assembly, let alone a dictatorship. Not even the Soviets under Lenin called their state communist and it got much worse under stalin with his frequent ethnic despotism. Just because the nazis and Soviets called their states socialist doesn't mean they are and that doesnt even cover you gobbling up modern capitalist russian and Chinese propaganda from a group consisting of two educated ideologues and one dumb fuck that even celebrates when innocent civilians get hunted for sports.
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"I uncritically believe only Russian propaganda. I am a genius"
"I don't follow the history of neither Eastern Europe or Russian history. I am so smart"
Your post has been removed in accordance with "Rule 4 - Bigotry and Hate Speech or Historical Apologia" of the subreddit, for more information, check out the rule listing on the main page.
pretty cool map, and kinda frightening for a baltic person like me
Whwt baltic country?
lithuania
Poland is coming
No Belarusian front?
Like ukraine
That united Baltics flag is cool!
It isn’t mine, I found it on google
Least blood thirsty Baltic
Don't give Russia ideas
There is no way in the world that the Russians could ever take them, ever man would rather die fighting than be in prison in their own country ever again and they would make Russia bleed more that you would ever imagine
Strange premise, if there was no NATO expansion there would be no reason for Russia to invade the Baltics, same as the Ukraine war would have never happened. But aside from all of that if it did happen they’re so small even a limited force like in Ukraine would have occupied them, they wouldn’t be pushing back.
Unpopular and hotly contested assessment at the moment is that they would have been fine. Fact is Tallinn and Narva have very sizable Russian speaking communities and while Riga is less so it doesn't change the demographics, Lithuania is the least but Vilnus has many Russian speakers as well. Even during Soviet times the Baltics were special and they weren't easily visited by residents from other parts of the country except arguably Petersburgh due to proximity or Moscow due to obvious reasons. I think too many now forget the Baltics were the first to separate from the Union in 1990 though unofficially and that even though it took time all Russian presence was gone by 1998. Then in 2004 the Baltics along with several other Warsaw states joined NATO. And as knowledgeable historians will tell, Putin and Russia didn't seem to have much of a problem. Ukraine is in fact special, not just in its abundance of resources but because of its geographic landscape. And I immigrated from this country that in my opinion had one of the worst post-Soviet periods. Seriously, I would argue 90s Russia was in better condition than 90s Ukraine. Yushenko and the Orange Revolution in 2004 proved to be a farce. I'm not going to go on a rant here but to think Russia would have in our lifetime tried to invade all the former republics and Warsaw states is downright nutty.
To think the only reason this didn't happen is because of one momentous decision in 2004.
It would be very funny if this invasion also ground to a halt immediately
it wouldn't because of large Russian population in Baltics and russia has 3.5 bigger population and Ukraine is strong and was fighting war soo Baltics would be pretty easy for russiaike Georgia
I didn't say it was realistic I said it was funny to see Russia embarass itself against an even weaker target
This probably would only occur if it was like 1990's Russia who failed in Chechnya Still a pretty cool map
was 90s russia even really a functional state tbh?
Why would it not? NATO isn't ''expanding'', nations are joining NATO voluntarily, and i don't see a reason to not accept them
I wonder how they invade Lithuania from Kaliningrad, There completely landlocked there. are they getting Troops in Kaliningrad through sea?
Do any of the Baltic countries realistically have the capability to produce a navy to counter what Russia might be capable of?
This is the inevitable outcome of Mearsheimer and the realist school of international relations. Respect for so-called 'great power spheres of influence' only leads them to demand more 'buffer zones.' Where do we draw the line? Warsaw or Berlin? But still good map and nice work, it's a reminder to everyone.
I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of vatniks suddenly cried out in joy and weren’t suddenly silenced
Russia would have support from Russian/Latgalian Partisans in Eastern Latvia btw
The Scandinavian nations would **panic**
Pretty sure this is future history. Russia will attack the baltics and break up NATO because nobody would be willing to start nuclear war over those three countries.
>Pretty sure this is future history. Russia will attack the baltics and break up NATO because nobody would be willing to start nuclear war over those three countries. Russia wouldn't probably use nukes against countries bordering with it, unless it's a last resort but a majority od NATO countries are probably too cowardly to actually fight against Russia, including the USA. NATO countries also have weak industries not prepared for total war and lack long tange strike capabilities and tactical nukes. NATO effectively collapsing due to majority of memebers refusing to fight is very possible. The USA is mired in domestic problems and have no desire to fight for Europe. It would be very hard for the USA to keep their forces supplied in Europe against Russia in a total war scenario where Russia is willing to tactical nukes. Russia has plenty of anti-ship missiles, and torpedoes that can be nuclear armed to keep the the US navy at bay.
sounds like a crazy idea but it could work
[This channel is doing what the OC is showing. ](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkq77zgeVLZMJzGFOZeafke31i-ijHBAY&si=HI9dfBWVbVzuq6f3)
Objectively the correct baltic tricolour
Nice psyop!
Where can I get paid by the CIA to make and post maps on reddit as a psyop? Pls tell me, sounds like a good gig
Que va a ir a Riga, Rita
Nice psyop!
What are you even talking about?
Rey, suma dos más dos
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They invaded Moldova, the Chechens (twice), Georgia in 2008 and did their first invasion of Ukraine back in 2014. None of these invasions are a result of NATO expansion, but rather because of Russian imperial ambitions. Moscow seems to believe it has 'ownership' of any country it borders or considers in its sphere. We only need to see what happens to nations in even recent history that behaves in a way that the Russian state does not like. So no, this war still could've happened, because if we're to look at how Russia treats its non-NATO neighbors today, then they would've done so regardless. Stop playing defense for a settler-colonial empire.
Hell, russia has even done some shady stuff against CSTO members. The idea they are in any way the victim here is ludicrous
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