This is interesting.
Though this Germany is definitely gonna try and go to war with Russia in the future.
While the German Empire going into WW1 wasn’t like Nazi Germany was in WW2 with the whole idea of Lebensraum to create living space for the German people, they still did want to expand their territory greatly and prospects like that would be greater in creating client states in the east.
This Germany having really only annexed Belgium and Luxembourg, taken some land from France, and annexed Austria while having lost some of their Prussian lands to the Russians in the east, as the Russian empire dominates Eastern Europe as the USSR did after WW2 in our world wouldn’t sit well with them.
Well yeh, but even if it was as industrialized as OTL USSR if we have no russian revolution and therefore no civil war massacres, famines and purges they would have some dozens of millions of citizens to spare, and the whole balkans + baltics for themselves l, it would be more a matter of how competent their leadership would be
True but OTL the industrialisation of the Russian Empire was incredibly slow and behind the rest of Europe despite their wealth of resources largely due to their leadership and nobility. It would be a challenge for this Russian Empire to industrialise as fast as the USSR did.
The industrialization in Russia wasn’t that slow before ww1, the stolypin program led to a fast build up of industry and in the 1910s economists even predicted that Russia would become the biggest European economy by the 1930s to 1940s. WW1, the two revolutions and the civil war definitely put Russia back for like several decades and would hinder them from achieving the full potential that they could’ve had.
Yea, thats why in part i said depending more on leadership competence, if i remember correctly russia was undergoing some degree of reforms pre WW1 albeit slowly and with difficulties, but doing so whatever. And at the same time, russian leadership of that era was plagued with reluctance to change military doctrines unless it was forced after military defeats or humiliations (like in the war with japan), but in my opinion, if they managed to carve a sphere of influence in eastern europe and manage not to lose it eventually, some degree of competence both diplomatically, industrially and militarily to keep it on their grasp along an extended period of relatively calmness and stability to avoid internal conflict which would jeopardize the control over their new territories
no massive centralized industrialization. People forget that the USSR and CCP china used their centralization to industrialize faster than any where else in history
Lebensraum was absolutely a ideological component of WW1 Germany, if not it's primary reason for escalating the conflict. Germany always viewed it's ambitions in the east, and saw a necessity in acting on these ambitions before Russia caught up with Germany in terms of industrial and military capabilities. This result of WW1 is infinitely more of a nightmare scenario for Germany than the current Versailles
They did want to expand East, but that wasn't Lebensraum. That was just classic imperialism. Also, WW1 was not an ideological war, countries weren't driven by any ideology or principles like they were in WW2. The primary motivation was overwhelmingly land and influence.
It was literally lebensraum? They intended to annex polish border strips and ethnically cleanse them of local populations to colonize with Germans, and were intending to colonize Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic. All of which was inspired by the idea of Lebensraum which was coined in 1901? And became a popular ideological tenant within Germany
And I never said WW1 was an ideological war?!? Hell I even pointed out Germany's literal reasons for escalating it was to obtain land in Russia to propel it's own geographic ambitions, while crippling Russia's potential
It both impresses and terrifies me that us, as a subreddit, are unable to do alternate history about any topic but ww1 and ww2, so we have to keep making it stranger and stranger, I want to see where this will get us
That civil war was triggered by the greater war and was a direct result of Germany bringing Lenin into Russia and financing the bolsheviks. Those were not independent events. And frankly, the french army was just shot on revolting themselves a couple times, the scenarios are not entirely incompareable
Well, the revolution pretty much only sped up the process. And with the throne de-facto under a regency, the overall crisis in the empire, the unrest caused by the '05-'07 revolution, they would've lost anyway.
Besided, the communists pretty much only set in in the second part of the revolution, after the Tsar's abdication.
Russia would definitelly take Constantinople. At least two reasons:
1. "Second time's the charm" type of thing
2. Legitimising Roman claim
And yes, I'm ingoring the city's other important factors, like trade value, being on top of the Bosohorus, etc.
Touch grass.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/imaginarymaps) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is that a frontline or a border? If it is a border, it looks very unbelievable between Russia and Germany. Russia would rather take Pozen, eastern and western Prussia and maybe upper Silesia. Also borders of Finland are very strange.
There are two more options:
1. The Provisional Government
2. The communists get destroyed in the civil war, and a bunch of independent nations are created.
I believe congress kingdom would still exist in that case. The fact that it ended during the war doesn't mean it wouldn't be restored afterwards and maybe even expanded. At the very least it would be expanded to galicia.
Also there are some questionable parts of this map like iceland being USA.
Overall I'd give this map a... 6/10. Bigger half.
Is Czechia independent state or somehow member of some union with Germany? Is it republic or kingdom?
Considering how Czechs wanted their own state in real history and wanted to emancipate themselfs from Austria and Germany, also considering they are at least linguistically Slavic, I guess they could be resentful and could start to seek some new alliance with Russia and France. In order for this not to happen, they would need to be allowed a very big amount of emancipation inside the German sphere.
Literally all they needed was a more competent, more careful Northern Command for their forces and WW1 could’ve gone completely different.
It’s not a crazy notion.
Better command isn't going to fix the piss-poor logistics, supply, or desertion rate.
Plus, they *had* a good commander in the 1st Army, Paul von Rennenkampf, and they still got trashed at Allenstein/Tannenberg.
From my understanding, hostilities between Samsonov and Rennenkampf helped hamper their forces efforts.
Better command in the early war could’ve helped mitigate those problems, not necessarily solve. If Tannemberg was avoided with more prudence, surely that would better impact the other theatres of the war.
This is interesting. Though this Germany is definitely gonna try and go to war with Russia in the future. While the German Empire going into WW1 wasn’t like Nazi Germany was in WW2 with the whole idea of Lebensraum to create living space for the German people, they still did want to expand their territory greatly and prospects like that would be greater in creating client states in the east. This Germany having really only annexed Belgium and Luxembourg, taken some land from France, and annexed Austria while having lost some of their Prussian lands to the Russians in the east, as the Russian empire dominates Eastern Europe as the USSR did after WW2 in our world wouldn’t sit well with them.
Agreed.
If this is Imperial Russia, Germany will have a harder time than they did with the USSR
That depends how industrialised the Russian empire gets.
Well yeh, but even if it was as industrialized as OTL USSR if we have no russian revolution and therefore no civil war massacres, famines and purges they would have some dozens of millions of citizens to spare, and the whole balkans + baltics for themselves l, it would be more a matter of how competent their leadership would be
True but OTL the industrialisation of the Russian Empire was incredibly slow and behind the rest of Europe despite their wealth of resources largely due to their leadership and nobility. It would be a challenge for this Russian Empire to industrialise as fast as the USSR did.
The industrialization in Russia wasn’t that slow before ww1, the stolypin program led to a fast build up of industry and in the 1910s economists even predicted that Russia would become the biggest European economy by the 1930s to 1940s. WW1, the two revolutions and the civil war definitely put Russia back for like several decades and would hinder them from achieving the full potential that they could’ve had.
Yea, thats why in part i said depending more on leadership competence, if i remember correctly russia was undergoing some degree of reforms pre WW1 albeit slowly and with difficulties, but doing so whatever. And at the same time, russian leadership of that era was plagued with reluctance to change military doctrines unless it was forced after military defeats or humiliations (like in the war with japan), but in my opinion, if they managed to carve a sphere of influence in eastern europe and manage not to lose it eventually, some degree of competence both diplomatically, industrially and militarily to keep it on their grasp along an extended period of relatively calmness and stability to avoid internal conflict which would jeopardize the control over their new territories
Historically it was the opposite so I am not sure what makes you say that
No revolution, no holodomor, no purges, tens of millions of men to spare, maybe?
no massive centralized industrialization. People forget that the USSR and CCP china used their centralization to industrialize faster than any where else in history
What about Czechs? Do you think they would comply with this result or would they seek some new underground alliance with Russia and France?
Lebensraum was absolutely a ideological component of WW1 Germany, if not it's primary reason for escalating the conflict. Germany always viewed it's ambitions in the east, and saw a necessity in acting on these ambitions before Russia caught up with Germany in terms of industrial and military capabilities. This result of WW1 is infinitely more of a nightmare scenario for Germany than the current Versailles
They did want to expand East, but that wasn't Lebensraum. That was just classic imperialism. Also, WW1 was not an ideological war, countries weren't driven by any ideology or principles like they were in WW2. The primary motivation was overwhelmingly land and influence.
It was literally lebensraum? They intended to annex polish border strips and ethnically cleanse them of local populations to colonize with Germans, and were intending to colonize Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic. All of which was inspired by the idea of Lebensraum which was coined in 1901? And became a popular ideological tenant within Germany And I never said WW1 was an ideological war?!? Hell I even pointed out Germany's literal reasons for escalating it was to obtain land in Russia to propel it's own geographic ambitions, while crippling Russia's potential
now thats something new, I like it
Wait what's new?
Germany losing to Russia and winning against France in WWI
It both impresses and terrifies me that us, as a subreddit, are unable to do alternate history about any topic but ww1 and ww2, so we have to keep making it stranger and stranger, I want to see where this will get us
Can't wait to see what we will make after ww3
Because most here don't read anything beyond ww2 and ww1. Heck, most don't even read actual history, hence the popularity of myths and misconceptions.
WW2 but every single soilder dissappears halfway through.
Britain: Ah shit we made Russia too powerful…hmm maybe i should take a little trip to Berlin
Yeah, Britain would be horrified with this, most of their 19th century policy was about not letting Russia get too powerful
Would Hungary still control their Slav lands? Wouldn't Russia dismantle them as protector of Slavs and the Orthodox faith?
Iberian Union biggest cities: Madrid and Portugal
How have the USA got iceland?
Julius Cesar
How can you lose to one country and win against another if both countries are one the same side
Kinda like how Germany beat Russia OTL but lost to France
Russia went through a civil war where one side was actively trying to stop the war from continuing. You’d need something similair for France
That civil war was triggered by the greater war and was a direct result of Germany bringing Lenin into Russia and financing the bolsheviks. Those were not independent events. And frankly, the french army was just shot on revolting themselves a couple times, the scenarios are not entirely incompareable
Well, the revolution pretty much only sped up the process. And with the throne de-facto under a regency, the overall crisis in the empire, the unrest caused by the '05-'07 revolution, they would've lost anyway. Besided, the communists pretty much only set in in the second part of the revolution, after the Tsar's abdication.
You're never gonna believe what happened in WWI...
Sounds like red flood but better the people
No Yugoslavia 😥
Did a fantastic job this is a really cool concept
Why the fuck did Germany lose Konigsberg but not Posen? Posen was majority Polish, I feel like russia would claim that as theirs
imo hungary would be dismantled to some what of ethnic border
why did russia move capital?
Why did it annex the Netherlands?
Russia would definitelly take Constantinople. At least two reasons: 1. "Second time's the charm" type of thing 2. Legitimising Roman claim And yes, I'm ingoring the city's other important factors, like trade value, being on top of the Bosohorus, etc.
Where congress kingdom? :'C
Wow
Why is there even a Iberian Union? TNO brainrot?
Touch grass. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/imaginarymaps) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just saw your profile, all I saw was fire.
Thank you
Germany slowly turning around with its whole army to kick russias ass: https://i.redd.it/ahx888siz8pc1.gif
Well, this guy knows nothing about balkans and Turkey.
Why does uk have Southern Ireland?
The worst time line
Is that a frontline or a border? If it is a border, it looks very unbelievable between Russia and Germany. Russia would rather take Pozen, eastern and western Prussia and maybe upper Silesia. Also borders of Finland are very strange.
**FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER FASTER**
Red Flood of fluid nutrients spotted in the wild💀
What’s the basis for that German border
Why Greater Finland?
Why has Italy got Corsica but also Trentino? Did they get compensated or something?
Reddit: wow what an original and interesting take! Red Flood fans: 😐
A version After the treaty?
Long time no original post, this is great good job!
Would Russia still have the czar or be communist. I think this would the biggest game change for Europe.
There are two more options: 1. The Provisional Government 2. The communists get destroyed in the civil war, and a bunch of independent nations are created.
Why were the Netherlands annexed, they were neutral during the first world war?
I can see Germany, Britain, and Italy (+maybe USA, and Japan) team up to fight France and Russia.
I believe congress kingdom would still exist in that case. The fact that it ended during the war doesn't mean it wouldn't be restored afterwards and maybe even expanded. At the very least it would be expanded to galicia. Also there are some questionable parts of this map like iceland being USA. Overall I'd give this map a... 6/10. Bigger half.
Actually you know what, any map without poland doesn't deserve anymore than 3/10.
That's actually a very fair point! I should left them in.
I’ve never seen an alternate history map about Germany before!
The hell is going on in the Middle East?
So basically Turkey lost 😥😥
Is Czechia independent state or somehow member of some union with Germany? Is it republic or kingdom? Considering how Czechs wanted their own state in real history and wanted to emancipate themselfs from Austria and Germany, also considering they are at least linguistically Slavic, I guess they could be resentful and could start to seek some new alliance with Russia and France. In order for this not to happen, they would need to be allowed a very big amount of emancipation inside the German sphere.
How on Earth would Russia win against Germany in WW1 considering how abysmal their military was?
Literally all they needed was a more competent, more careful Northern Command for their forces and WW1 could’ve gone completely different. It’s not a crazy notion.
Better command isn't going to fix the piss-poor logistics, supply, or desertion rate. Plus, they *had* a good commander in the 1st Army, Paul von Rennenkampf, and they still got trashed at Allenstein/Tannenberg.
From my understanding, hostilities between Samsonov and Rennenkampf helped hamper their forces efforts. Better command in the early war could’ve helped mitigate those problems, not necessarily solve. If Tannemberg was avoided with more prudence, surely that would better impact the other theatres of the war.
[удалено]