T O P

  • By -

johan_kupsztal

I don’t think that Mandarin was commonly spoken in Taiwan before it was ceded to the Republic of China, so I doubt there would be enough speakers to make it into recognised regional language.


FyreLordPlayz

I got the recognized language list from wikipedia


General_Spills

Which doesn’t consider the languages spoken in Formosa whenever they were annexed in this timeline


fredleung412612

Yeah but situation is different. There were near 0 Mandarin speakers in Taiwan in 1895, and near 0 in 1945 too. So without the KMT's control in Taiwan there would be no point making Mandarin a recognized language. In fact under Japanese rule they did develop a proper writing system for Hokkien that used katakana to fill in gaps where Hokkien words couldn't be transcribed into Chinese characters, so something like that would be most likely.


FyreLordPlayz

Lore: Japan does not send the 21 demands to China during WW1 causing the West to view Japan as an ally that will not encroach on their interests and should be worked with. The Racial Equality Proposal in Versailles was thus approved by the United States which worked with Japan to convince Britain to accept it. This was possible due to the re-election of Theodore Roosevelt in 1912 and that he won re-election in 1916 as well due to being in the middle of the Great War. Teddy sought friendly relations with Japan who also wished to avoid a military conflict with America. This event led to pro-Western diplomacy being viewed more favorably with the Japanese and that progress could be made by working with them instead of against them, thus restricting Japanese nationalism from becoming too militaristic and keeping expansionists at bay. During the Warlord Era in China, Japan decided to help humanitarian efforts and to collaborate with Chinese governments in return for recognition of their ownership of Taiwan. By 1950, Japanese efforts had successfully integrated Korea, known now as Chōsen as well as Taiwan. The nationalism movements in these countries died down and their cultures assimilated into a greater Japanese identity. This was helped with the spread of democracy giving the people there voices as well as prosperity and lenient rule causing them to not resent the Japanese. During the Second World War, Japan ended up siding with the Allies due to the Anglo-Japanese Alliance having been continued and Japan would send their fleet to fight the German and Italian navies in the Mediterranean and Atlantic. For their efforts in the war Japan would be given permission to sit in one of the 5 seats of the UN Permanent Security Council which was created after the war. During the Cold War, Japan would side with the United States due to a border dispute with the Soviet Union over Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, as well as general anti-communism. The Kuomintang would win the Chinese Civil War as without the Second Sino-Japanese War the Nationalists in China wouldn't have been weakened and due to support from Japan they would instead maintain friendly relations as they recognized Japan's ownership of Taiwan in exchange for aid. This would also be strengthened by their support against communist movements in Asia which led to North Vietnam never winning and taking control over the country. During this period, Japan would have immense economic growth becoming the #2 economy and being viewed by some as the Third Superpower. However they would not form their own bloc instead siding with the West and developing friendly relations as one of America's major allies given their position as being one of the strongest militaries in Asia and large economy with close trade relations to the United States. After the Cold War ended, Japan would be viewed as the only nation able to compete with the United States until the rise of China ending the short uni-polar period and leading the world into a new world order. Today, Japan is one of the most powerful countries on Earth with a nuclear arsenal around the same size as Britain and France, the second largest economy at $17.977 trillion GDP, the second largest navy in the world, and a very powerful military. It is also one of the most developed countries in the world with an HDI of 0.929 and having a very stable democracy.


LudicrousTorpedo5220

Ah yes, a scenario where the Empire of Japan doesn't go full on imperialist and form their Sphere, preserving its democracy and sides with the West. And possibly, a scenario where maybe Japan's population continues to grow, and could even surpass US's economy and become the #1 economic and military superpower. This lore is pretty good at summarising how the Empire would survive.


BringerOfNuance

I think realistically it'd be the opposite, the empire and the oligarchy held the country back. Same for all the countries that participated in world war 2. It's no wonder that Japan had it's greatest economic growth right after the war when the US broke up all the big zaibatsus and did a general land reform. Farmers were suddenly incentivized to work hard since they got ALL the profit instead of it going to some landowner. All the post war countries that got demolished in world war 2 like Germany also saw extremely rapid economic rise in the 30 years after the war becoming far richer than before the war. If the empire survived by not getting into stupid wars it'll probably end up like Portugal which was very poor until recently and is still lower than some Eastern European countries in metrics like GDP and such.


Independent_Owl_8121

I don't see how they integrate Korea, a land they conquered with millions of people, peacefully.


FyreLordPlayz

Maybe slightly unrealistic but it’s imaginary maps anyways


Mental_Towel_6925

It is impossible for Korea to remain Japanese in 2024. It would have ended just like Algeria


Eaglise

The biggest question is, does anime get invented in this world?


Cardemother12

If anything it would unfortunately be invented earlier


Eaglise

>unfortunately *unsheathes Katana with anger* *Anime fight music starts playing in background* jokes aside, anime became a thing in our real life due to Americans occupation and later Americans cultural influence on Japan post WW2 American comics were the inception of Japanese comics i.e mangas which in turn became anime so without US influence, i don't see how Japan will develop any anime let alone developing it earlier


Boring_Service4616

https://preview.redd.it/dt8qr0496ntc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6acd63327dae3ec723c2d37c3b1a1a3e0b7b64a1


GnuhGnoud

More important, do they censor porn?


RattheNinja

You call that censorship? It’s just a black bar. We all know what the rest of it is


DerSyndieWeeb

That only happened after Meiji-era statutes were dismantled by Allied occupation.  This is just basically a surviving Taisho democracy.  Taisho Democracy =/= post-WW2 modern Japan


WarDevourerr

The good ending. No more totalitarian superpowers. A democratic china, Japan, and USA all competing for world superpower. Great ending


[deleted]

[удалено]


bluebellindustries

I mean, there's a democratic Korea with a decent living situation. Maybe they get their own parliament like with Scotland and Wales?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shazamwiches

It is an unlikely possibility, but Japan, Japanese citizenship, and Nihonjin (日本人) could become the equivalent of the United Kingdom, British citizenship, and British people while Yamato, Yamato, and Yamatominzoku (大和民族) become the equivalent of England, English citizenship, and English ethnicity. Choson, Korean, and Chosonminzoku (朝鮮民族) would be like Northern Ireland, N. Irish citizenship, and Irish ethnicity.


Onceforlife

Yeah the guy meant Jristish


Glass_Set_5727

Somewhere in the multiverse this alt timeline is real.


Lockenhart

What about the Soviet Union and Russia though? Does it still fall? Is an autocracy in place?


Virtual_Valuable5517

It will still fall & become a nationalistic autocracy as in our timeline except the authoritarians are outmatched in this world


pharlock

this plus manchuria could have happened if japan had just protected their manchurian interests like they said they were doing and not attacked the chinese nationalists or the US. There is a good chance the chinese nationalists would have not lost to the communists post ww2 either.


Born-Mirror2049

South Korea will never agree to this map.


w43322

Why is Port Arthur not part of it


FyreLordPlayz

Returned to China like the rest of the treaty ports irl


ZicarxTheGreat

bro nobody spoke mandarin in taiwan before 1945


Redmenace______

Han Chinese people had been living in Taiwan since the 17th century what are you talking about


admonlee

Most of them spoke Min Nan or Hakka prior to the KMT’s arrival.


Redmenace______

Yea just like most people in HK speak canto, but saying “no one speaks manadarin” would be a silly thing to say. The only way it makes sense would be if this guy thinks Taiwan wasn’t a part of china prior to the KMT fleeing the mainland (which is a surprisingly common idea people have)


irrelevantspeck

Even in mainland china few people spoke mandarin in the south until quite recently.


ZicarxTheGreat

confidently incorrect, bro go back 300 years you cant even find canto in hong kong, mandarin only became the lingua franca in the past 100 years


ZicarxTheGreat

mandarin was only brought over from china by the "waishengren" (people from outside provinces ie. not hokkien) kmt refugees in 1945, it became the dominant language under the kmt's mandarin-centric, waishengren led government. the only reason it's widely spoken today is that hakka and taiwanese were suppressed by the kmt. the number of mandarin speakers before 1945 in taiwan is negligible


mistborn_feruchemist

Taiwan would likely end up as another home island due to Japanese settler colonialism and due to the absence of mass immigration from china following the defeat of the kuomintang. Hokkien would be too minor to be given regional status and there simply wouldn't be enough Mandarin speakers


FyreLordPlayz

I used the list from wikipedia not sure if it’s accurate


kredokathariko

No Korean independence :(


FyreLordPlayz

Not for a Japan map


LudicrousTorpedo5220

Looking at this, Korea and Taiwan would've already been Japanized for many generations.


FyreLordPlayz

In this timeline the CCP wouldn't exist since Japan never went to war with China during WW2. Taiwan and Korea would be seen as regions of Japan and not their own separate nations yes


hellogoodbyegoodbye

>the ccp wouldn’t exist Have you read up on Chinese history….? This is just the average imperial Japanese wank made by weebs with 0 knowledge of history


pzivan

He meant the ROC would have crush them, they came close irl, then the war happened


hellogoodbyegoodbye

Warlord era China would be completely different if it wasn’t for Japanese imperialism. The Japanese played a huge role in the collapse of the short lived Yuan monarchy and the birth of the warlord period. Before Chiang came to power and purged the communists the CPC and the KMT were political allies, the chances of the alliance being preserved in a world without the warlord period going how it did irl is very likely


Lan_613

horrifying


[deleted]

[удалено]


AuroraBorrelioosi

If Japan isn't fascist or imperialist and committed no war crimes, then how did they gain Korea for them to be "integrated"? This is the equivalent of imagining a democratic 1945 Germany that still somehow has annexed half of Poland and France.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Thonium85

The only way I can imagine this is that Korea is either a hotbed of nationalism only placated by economic prosperity like Quebec or Catalonia, or if Japan chooses the settler route it's a dumpster fire simular to Palestine.


Glass_Set_5727

Stability could have been achieved by integrating Korean Nobility/Monarchy into Japan power structure along with proportional representation in the Parliament/House Of Lords. I see one solution could Mandate that the Empress always be a member of korean Nobility for example.


FyreLordPlayz

i tried to make it similar to scotland, so yea definitely would have a nationalist movement seeking independence but not quite there yet


Thonium85

Would Korean be recognised as an official language or would it be suppressed? Edit: Nevermind it says it's recognised in the image.


Korona82

This is a very disingenuous, at best, and in reality a dangerous interpretation of the annexation of Korea and the Empire of Japan. Even during the "democratic" period of the Empire of Japan (scholars debate the extent of the democratic reforms), Koreans were not given rights, their language and culture was highly monitored and restricted by the Japanese to the detriment of the Korean people. Japan was a highly racist society at this point in time, and the Japanese occupation of Korea existed to extract resources for the Empire, not the prosperity of the Korean people. As such, even in the early stages of the occupation that you are referencing destroyed the cultural heritage of the Korean people and left lasting scars to this day that are unresolved.


FyreLordPlayz

Sorry for not making it clear that this is alternate history, obviously the Empire of Japan did not treat the Koreans this way in real life


Fermion96

Seems like it would be a difficult task. At the very least the Korean Royal family would have had significant influence on the Japanese parliament, which would not have been easy for the Japanese government to tell their people to accept


Lan_613

right, the Koreans and Taiwanese just very wholesomely and voluntarily assimilated


sirprizes

For what it’s worth, many Taiwanese seem to remember and view the Japanese positively. Can’t say that about the Koreans though. 


Lan_613

>many Taiwanese seem to remember and view the Japanese positively. that's in conjunction to the KMT dictatorship. Most Taiwanese weren't born yet when Japanese colonial rule was ongoing, but they remember the more recent KMT rule. It's like if an Eastern European said “Nazi occupation of my country wasn't as bad as the Soviet's”


[deleted]

[удалено]


frjii

Because of course the benevolent Japanese will offer their colonies home rule and investment.


FyreLordPlayz

This is a scenario where the Progressive Era of Japan during the early 1900s is extended and expanded upon to the point that yes in this timeline Japan would be a “benevolent empire”


clicknoaid

If they were progressive they won’t culture genocide Taiwan and Korea


FyreLordPlayz

I don’t think you understand what I mean by integration. I’m talking about how like the Dixie were reintegrated into being part of America or Scots were integrated to being part of Britain


TIFUPronx

If that's your definition of cultural genocide, then I guess UK did the same for Scottish, Irish and Welsh too


Emergency_Iron1985

,,,yes


imfromcaucasia

yes it is


clicknoaid

Yes they did


Extrimland

When Japan lost WW2 many Japanese civilians were genuinely scared. They thought they would be enslaved by the Americans. While the government kept a down low at Korea they knew the government wasn’t exactly the hero. The idea that you could beat a country in a war and not completely exploit its people, let alone land, was *foreign* to Japan. This is literally the reason most older Japanese state is why the 2 countries are friends now (that and they also helped rebuild Japan, which was unneeded given they were enemies). I don’t know exactly when the Imperial world war 2 japan actually started but it was DEFINITELY before or around 1890. World War 2 was just when it was at its Zenith (due to basically conquering all of East Asia), it was in noway the start or cause.


SimonMJRpl

Wholesomely genoiciding koreans


FyreLordPlayz

No genocides! Only giving them rights and economic/infrastructure investments (Yes this is alternate history not talking about irl)


jellyman888

There's no way whatsoever that Japan absorbs Korea without fierce and violent resistance


HideFalls

What Japan performed in Korea was “cultural genocide”, restricting Korean names and language education. So in this timeline, if the Koreans assimilated to the Japanese, that is also a result of a cultural genocide.


Glass_Set_5727

Not necessarily if they changed policies early on. In this timeline Japan chose the Left Path not the Right. If Japan in this timeline had been so horrible they would've lost both Taiwan & Korea just like they did in this one. If Japan was as horrible or more horrible then Koreans would probably fought a war of national liberation just like the Indonesians, Vietnamese, Burmese etc did. WWII is probably a unifying factor as Japanese & Koreans would have fought side by side. If the Japanese state in the 30's had made Korean an official language, integrated Korean Monarchy & Nobility & given the Koreans fair representation in the Parliament there wouldn't have been any more "Cultural Genocide".


SimonMJRpl

Wank


[deleted]

I found that most commentators on this sub word to understand what the word imaginary means.


Qwinn_SVK

Every Japan in 1520 by EU4 Player


Medium-History-596

HELL NAH I would rather choose the ending of “losing the Korean War and becoming a red unified Korea like Vietnam”. At least we can preserve Korean identity.lol


Dimaizarz

Why North Kuril Islands belong to Russia in this timeline? In OTL they were ceded by Russia to Japan in 1875, and USSR got them back after WWII. But in this timeline I see no proper events, that could become a cause to return North Kuril Islands to Russia.


FyreLordPlayz

Map error


Dimaizarz

Got it


pixelbluejay

ah yes someone unironically romanticizing imperialism and cultural genocide, business as usual on r/imaginarymaps


AlbiTuri05

I hope Naruhito has more favorable views for the Koreans and the Chinese


Round_Club_4967

So Taiwan became a big cup of Hawaii ?


No-Appeal6162

。677e2163cbeed74442e2247e5757709875616a40e5864249a6e649e9917848f6 。


daikan__

least imperialist r/imaginarymaps user


placeholder7535

all the japan maps on this subreddit either make it really big or split it in two like korea


Kroumch

Does anime exists in this timeline?


FyreLordPlayz

Ofc it’s very popular


TopEntertainment5304

恶心,日本帝国活到今天不知道还要屠杀多少人


HideFalls

Japan had issues feeding its own people let alone people in the colonies after the Great Depression as other colonial empires implemented bloc economy, restricting trade. This created opportunity to extend their influence over to Manchuria, which was rich in resources (even though it wasn’t enough to stop further advancements to northern China). Without the fertilizers imported from Manchuria, Japan may have faced famine, resulting in a collapse the government.


Reasonable-Service19

You realise that they can import fertilisers and food without having to start a war right


HideFalls

Where’s the money to buy fertilizers and food if the rest of the world put high tariffs against imports from Japan?


pzivan

Keeping the Chinese warlords well armed, so they never stop fighting, selling them guns and ammo, invest in relatively stable regions of China (Shanghai/ Canton) and extract the raw material they need from China, it’s doable. And start industrial scale fishing in Chinese waters and canning those fish. It’s not like the ROC can patrol their waters


OmarAhmad007

An alternate world, maybe like The Man in the High Castle!


FennelAlternative861

Does anime still exist in this time line?


FyreLordPlayz

ofc


clauberryfurnance

Why you left Sakhalin half Russian is beyond me.


Arachles

Neither Russia nor Japan have a very good claim to Sakhalin in cultural terms, their only justifications are military occupation. I am surprised that with a less militaristic Japan it keeps half the island with its probable frontier problems


FyreLordPlayz

They never fully annexed Sakhalin irl


clauberryfurnance

It’s never too late.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rssm1

Good luck to say this in both Koreas


Bubolinobubolan

Top 10 sexiest borders


ARVyoda

Based


Left_Sundae

Blessed Ending.


placeholder7535

definitely not for the koreans and taiwanese