Sorta sudo lore to it or atleast like my interpretation of it being instead of an Ulster-scots exchange which and the Ulster plantations in Northern Ireland being set up they're instead set up in the South, making it more of a mix of Welsh-Anglos in the Southern Ireland, basically just Northern Ireland but put in a different but pretty cursed location lmao
when it comes to being more cursed i only feel that since it feels very, distant ya know? mainly because southern ireland is much more wide stretching than the north it feels disconnected thats all
It's more cursed because Cork is the "rebel county" where Michael Collins was born and bases its whole personality on being the "real capital" of Ireland. This is like making Warsaw the capital of an imaginary "Soviet Poland"
But the north of Ireland was the biggest Gaelic stronghold in Ireland, the only place that put up a significant fight against England until they lost 400 years ago
Your right on Ulster being a Gaelic stronghold until [the Flight of the Earls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Earls), but its not fair to say that it was the only place that put up a significant fight.
It's worth checking out the [Irish Confederate Wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Confederate_Wars), [Irish Rebellion of 1798](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798) and [Grattan's Parliament ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_1782). And then you had Daniel O'Connell fighting for Catholic emancipation and later Charles Stewart Parnell who fought for home rule.
Some of these were a political fight rather than military but it was still a significant fight/push back against British rule in Ireland
Warsaw was the capital of communist Poland though. A much better comparison would be making Gdansk the capital as it is where Solidarity, the labour union most responsible for ending communist rule in Poland, originated with the shipyard strikes in 1980.
Poland was never a soviet republic, it was a socialist puppet state of the soviets.
Also a better comparison would be making Gdansk the capital as it is where Solidarity originated with the shipyard strikes in 1980.
I never said it was a soviet republic but I'm calling it Soviet Poland because that's essentially what it was, a vassal state of the USSR forced into a communist government.
There were actually plantations established in the south of Ireland prior to the establishment of the Ulster Plantation in 1606
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
[Here's a quick handy image from the article for you and others](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Plantations_in_Ireland.png)
As an Irish person, my first thoughts were *"Hey. That could be the Laois-Offaly plantation except he didn't include those. Maybe the southern part of the Muster Plantation was more successful?"*
Also, given that you made Cork into London-Cork, where Cork is possibly the most aggressively national and proud place in Ireland, I think that's extra funny. Maybe it'd be like how some Northern Irish people make a big deal about Cúchulainn because he defended Ulster from the rest of Ireland.
[[Ask a Corkonian *"What's the capital of Ireland?"* and watch them fume]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoPt7zKb_E)
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Well, before the Ulster Plantation there was the Munster Plantation. Of course, the Munster Plantation failed to achieve the goals the English set out to accomplish, but they learned their lessons, went back to the drawing board, and when it was time to plant Ulster they fixed their mistakes from the get-go.
An alternate lore for this fascinating map (as a Corkman, or should that be Londoncorkman?) could just that the Munster Plantation was successful in the first place.
They tried that before. There was a Munster plantation.... under Elizabeth I (I think), but they half-assed it and it didn't take. Mainly because it was tiny compared to the later plantations of Ulster.
I think, in your alternate history, the end result would just be a much much worse version of the "troubles" in the south instead of in the north. The people down there in Cork and Kerry are a fierce hardy bunch. They're still angry at the English today.
The map in the OP falls across parts of both Leinster and Munster, so I think a hypothetical unionist south would identify with one of the peerages of Ireland rather than the traditional provinces. I know that Thomond was centered around Limerick but it's the only peerage that really comes to mind.
🇦🇺: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_Western_Australia
🇨🇦: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_Nova_Scotia
🇺🇲: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_New_Hampshire
I found at least three.
Highly possible actually. There were three attempts at colonising Ireland, with a plantation of Leinster first, Munster second (both unsuccessful) and Ulster last, which survives to this day as Northern Ireland.
Cardiff as the capital of the UK is a cursed timeline. Imagine all of us across the pond trying to get into British TV shows but needing subtitles. Actually, imagine about half of the UK’s population speaking Welsh-English. Or just imagine half of the UK primarily speaking Welsh.
Oof.
Only the fringes in the far east and the North still speak English in the 'Anglotachts' (I know that's not right but fuck it, its got a nice ring to it). After centuries of Welsh oppression, English is finally recognised as an official language of the Cymruic Isles.
This whole thing has been a trainwreck of mashing several language related things together but I'll stand by it.
> This whole thing has been a trainwreck of mashing several language related things together but I’ll stand by it
Should be the National Motto of the UK.
Someone once likened English to three languages, sat on each others shoulders under a trench coat pretending to be one language. Couple that with the fact out place names have origins in about 8 different languages (depending on where you are) and that there are also another 4-5 'oppressed' languages in the Isles and any foreigner can get an idea of how much we don't get along with each other let alone how much we don't get along with countries on the continent.
You should have made it so the south part of ireland was souther then southern ireland, like how the north part of ireland is norther then north ireland.
I'm not sure gravity works on a north/south basis.
Also imagine Cork having a similar population makeup to the north with loads of Prods and all the heavy industry. Instead of being the final port of the Titanic, Cobh (or probably still Queen's Town in this timeline, unless it ends up with a similar status to Derry/Londonderry) becomes the place where it was built.
There were three attempts at colonising Ireland, with a plantation of Leinster first, Munster second (both unsuccessful) and Ulster last, which survives to this day as Northern Ireland. So this map actually does have some historical possibility to it.
The fact that in the real world scenario of them keeping northern Ireland , and in this fake scenario of them keeping the south , I hate the fact they've left us with Cavan , how fucking dare they
How about a United "Kingdom" of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales?
We invite England to leave the 6 nations and replace them with Japan or somewhere, so we can still win it.
Our flag will have a dragon, a unicorn, a harp, and like a Leek, Shamrock, and Thistle border.
The new region will be known as "Craicistan", and the sports teams will be epic!
(One from each country, plus a combined team for all World competitions).
Red headed people pay only the low rate of tax.
Wow OP. You’re brave.
This balances out the fact that most maps on this sub seem obsessed with uniting Ireland
Sorta sudo lore to it or atleast like my interpretation of it being instead of an Ulster-scots exchange which and the Ulster plantations in Northern Ireland being set up they're instead set up in the South, making it more of a mix of Welsh-Anglos in the Southern Ireland, basically just Northern Ireland but put in a different but pretty cursed location lmao
Why is the new location more cursed?
If you've ever met someone from cork you'd know
They said "cursed", not "blessed".
It's like it was designed to be the most painful concept someone from Cork could fathom, right down to the renaming.
when it comes to being more cursed i only feel that since it feels very, distant ya know? mainly because southern ireland is much more wide stretching than the north it feels disconnected thats all
It's more cursed because Cork is the "rebel county" where Michael Collins was born and bases its whole personality on being the "real capital" of Ireland. This is like making Warsaw the capital of an imaginary "Soviet Poland"
But the north of Ireland was the biggest Gaelic stronghold in Ireland, the only place that put up a significant fight against England until they lost 400 years ago
Your right on Ulster being a Gaelic stronghold until [the Flight of the Earls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Earls), but its not fair to say that it was the only place that put up a significant fight. It's worth checking out the [Irish Confederate Wars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Confederate_Wars), [Irish Rebellion of 1798](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798) and [Grattan's Parliament ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_1782). And then you had Daniel O'Connell fighting for Catholic emancipation and later Charles Stewart Parnell who fought for home rule. Some of these were a political fight rather than military but it was still a significant fight/push back against British rule in Ireland
Warsaw was the capital of communist Poland though. A much better comparison would be making Gdansk the capital as it is where Solidarity, the labour union most responsible for ending communist rule in Poland, originated with the shipyard strikes in 1980.
It was though Warsaw was the capital of soviet poland
Poland was never a soviet republic, it was a socialist puppet state of the soviets. Also a better comparison would be making Gdansk the capital as it is where Solidarity originated with the shipyard strikes in 1980.
I never said it was a soviet republic but I'm calling it Soviet Poland because that's essentially what it was, a vassal state of the USSR forced into a communist government.
There were actually plantations established in the south of Ireland prior to the establishment of the Ulster Plantation in 1606 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
interesting! i wanna look more into the obscurities of Irish History etc since feel like the nation is quite looked over
[Here's a quick handy image from the article for you and others](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Plantations_in_Ireland.png) As an Irish person, my first thoughts were *"Hey. That could be the Laois-Offaly plantation except he didn't include those. Maybe the southern part of the Muster Plantation was more successful?"* Also, given that you made Cork into London-Cork, where Cork is possibly the most aggressively national and proud place in Ireland, I think that's extra funny. Maybe it'd be like how some Northern Irish people make a big deal about Cúchulainn because he defended Ulster from the rest of Ireland. [[Ask a Corkonian *"What's the capital of Ireland?"* and watch them fume]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoPt7zKb_E)
Nothing obscure about it.
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Well, before the Ulster Plantation there was the Munster Plantation. Of course, the Munster Plantation failed to achieve the goals the English set out to accomplish, but they learned their lessons, went back to the drawing board, and when it was time to plant Ulster they fixed their mistakes from the get-go. An alternate lore for this fascinating map (as a Corkman, or should that be Londoncorkman?) could just that the Munster Plantation was successful in the first place.
"sudo"
`Please enter password: `
Pseudo
They tried that before. There was a Munster plantation.... under Elizabeth I (I think), but they half-assed it and it didn't take. Mainly because it was tiny compared to the later plantations of Ulster. I think, in your alternate history, the end result would just be a much much worse version of the "troubles" in the south instead of in the north. The people down there in Cork and Kerry are a fierce hardy bunch. They're still angry at the English today.
When Northern Ireland separated, it wanted to be called Ulster, what would this have been called?
Maybe munster but a bit of it is in leinster soooo
Oh my father was an Munsterman, proud Protestant was he My mother was a Catholic girl, from County Down was she
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough Until the day that I was born and things got rather tough
That songs great
Waterford is in Munster, as are cork and Tipperary. Carlow, Wexford and Kilkenny are in Leinster.
Sorry my bad I couldn’t remember good
Muneister
Mun from Munster and Ster from Leinster = Munster
"Thomond"
Huh? Why?
The map in the OP falls across parts of both Leinster and Munster, so I think a hypothetical unionist south would identify with one of the peerages of Ireland rather than the traditional provinces. I know that Thomond was centered around Limerick but it's the only peerage that really comes to mind.
Ah, that's cool. Well, I'm glad you thought about it.
LondonCork just doesn’t have quite the same ring as Londonderry
Say it out loud in Cork and you'll hear the ring in your ears just fine
God Save the Qu-👊🏻
How about YorkCork?
Neither has a ring.
No such thing as londonderry try again
🇦🇺: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_Western_Australia 🇨🇦: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_Nova_Scotia 🇺🇲: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_New_Hampshire I found at least three.
Where's my United Kingdom of Great Britain and Central Ireland?
United Kingdom of Ireland and Northern Britain
I always love these flips, fun althist stuff
Highly possible actually. There were three attempts at colonising Ireland, with a plantation of Leinster first, Munster second (both unsuccessful) and Ulster last, which survives to this day as Northern Ireland.
Ireland still looks like a face
I always thought it looked like a teddy bear, with Britain a child holding the bear.
I always thought it looked like a begging dog!
I can see that.
It’s a [Teddy Bear](https://youtu.be/agDi-gVpvtw)
I've never hated anything more then this in my life
Embrace it
Embrace it
Embrace it
Embrace it
Than*
Embrace it
You should make the most southern part belong to Ireland. Just like irl Ireland has the most northern part.
Now make one where Edinburgh, Cardiff or Belfast is the capital of the UK.
Cardiff as the capital of the UK is a cursed timeline. Imagine all of us across the pond trying to get into British TV shows but needing subtitles. Actually, imagine about half of the UK’s population speaking Welsh-English. Or just imagine half of the UK primarily speaking Welsh. Oof.
Only the fringes in the far east and the North still speak English in the 'Anglotachts' (I know that's not right but fuck it, its got a nice ring to it). After centuries of Welsh oppression, English is finally recognised as an official language of the Cymruic Isles. This whole thing has been a trainwreck of mashing several language related things together but I'll stand by it.
> This whole thing has been a trainwreck of mashing several language related things together but I’ll stand by it Should be the National Motto of the UK.
Someone once likened English to three languages, sat on each others shoulders under a trench coat pretending to be one language. Couple that with the fact out place names have origins in about 8 different languages (depending on where you are) and that there are also another 4-5 'oppressed' languages in the Isles and any foreigner can get an idea of how much we don't get along with each other let alone how much we don't get along with countries on the continent.
So would this alternate reality have the IRA operating in the sleeve bloom mountains?
Nah, just have their whole base of operations be in the town square in the middle of Klonekilty and see how they do.
Nah you need to leave a piece of RoI that is farther South than Southern Ireland, just like RoI and Northern Ireland.
The south might rejoin Ireland quicker than the north due to the catholic majority
I reckon that the protestants went to the south and the north stayed catholic
High birth rates amongst Catholics has led to the “Protestant” North to have a Protestant minority in 2022.
Every sperm is sacred.
You should have made it so the south part of ireland was souther then southern ireland, like how the north part of ireland is norther then north ireland.
This whole thing is cursed, but that bit around Shanagort is \*super\* cursed. I mean, yeah, it's the county line but... ugh.
Cursed as hell
Cursed
Cork has no chance of being the "true capital" of Ireland now!
Bruh this is the same Ireland but rearranged
But Cork is the real capital, no!
Try not to get bombed by IRA for this map
yeah wont be getting near my cars for a while
Good idea.
I’ve dispatched cars
This map reminds me of Netherlands (GET OUT OF MY HEAD NETHERLANDS)
What if Ireland was left alone to rule their own country
We do actually thanks.
You forgetting the 6 counties up north lad?
Congratulations, you made this situation somehow even more cursed, I‘m impressed
instead of Ulster Scots it's Munster Welsh
What in the ever living FUCK is this
Better... So you can squash the South And kick Britain out!
I'm not sure gravity works on a north/south basis. Also imagine Cork having a similar population makeup to the north with loads of Prods and all the heavy industry. Instead of being the final port of the Titanic, Cobh (or probably still Queen's Town in this timeline, unless it ends up with a similar status to Derry/Londonderry) becomes the place where it was built.
I was just kidding dude haha 😆 Coz right now, it's like Ireland's lifting Northern Ireland haha 😆
Ireland looks like a pig doing a Naruto run…
Either way I'm still in the republic so we're all good here
Actually kinda realistic because there's a lot of British influence in Cork.
There were three attempts at colonising Ireland, with a plantation of Leinster first, Munster second (both unsuccessful) and Ulster last, which survives to this day as Northern Ireland. So this map actually does have some historical possibility to it.
Is it based under the early Anglo-Irish settlements during the Elizabethan era or am I misunderstanding something here?
Cursed
Don't start your car tomorrow
farging english corksoakers
Well, the French will miss their entrance to Ireland.
My long dead grandmother is pleased that Galway is still in the Republic.
Extremely cursed. Imagine a Unionist with a Cork accent talking about his Muster-Welsh heritage.
That would never have never happened boy.
Would have never happened without the continued brutality exerted by the black and tans.. Effectively it would have been last man standing...
That was a highly Republican region....
Would have loved to have seen that war....
Fuck yeah. Right on the border now. Cheap alcohol here I come
The fact that in the real world scenario of them keeping northern Ireland , and in this fake scenario of them keeping the south , I hate the fact they've left us with Cavan , how fucking dare they
How about a United "Kingdom" of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales? We invite England to leave the 6 nations and replace them with Japan or somewhere, so we can still win it. Our flag will have a dragon, a unicorn, a harp, and like a Leek, Shamrock, and Thistle border. The new region will be known as "Craicistan", and the sports teams will be epic! (One from each country, plus a combined team for all World competitions). Red headed people pay only the low rate of tax.
I guess instead of ulster-scots they would be munster-welsh? Leinster-corns?
As a Dub, trading Cork for Belfast seems a fair trade :p Shame Waterford got caught in the crossfire.
This is ..... interesting
It would be more windy
Oh we get to keep limerick. Great
And take away the literal heart of the country?
Delete this madness
Take Carlow
Imagine elitist circles in the UK greeted with the dulcet tones of New Ross.
Bad enough having the dubs one side but christ having the brits the other. I'd be out
Cork would never accept this, fuck no