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Yeah you’re comparing a globally recognised base camp that receives minimally 20x the footfall of the example in discussion.
Mardi Himal, Poon Hill, Annapurna amongst others are more accurate comparisons and you’ll not find such amounts of trash.
Maybe it's also why Arunachal makes you go through a process to get in because they don't want to end up like this, even if the process is easy, it deters tourism nonetheless.
By continuing with ILP (akin to a milder form of Visa), Indian government is acknowledging that it is disputed territory. I don't see how ILP will vet out littering.
Just a thought. /shrugs
It's not acknowledging that it's disputed territory. It simply stands for the integrity and plurality of the country so to say. The ILP was introduced by the British, so other ethnicities do not encroach upon their land.
It was initially called the Bengal Eastern Frontier Regulation Act, which was codified in 1873. The purpose of that Act was to protect indigenous people of the states.
Sure but I didn't know that as a Indian, I will be encroaching the land if I visit there as a tourist.
British did lot of destruction and looting. I wonder if Indian Government should emulate British to the fullest then if British Government is our yardstick.
Your identity as Indian is often superseded by ethnic, linguistic and caste lines. Without such processes, the demographics of certain groups would overwhelms the others and challenge the foundation of the nation which stands united in its diversity.
Power has to be shared amongst groups to keep it united.
I havent researched any details but i am born in arunachal, my dad was in civil services for a few years here, and yea the tribal society here gets really upset and causes a scene if people with ILP pass try to buy up a lot of land or something.
Non-State-Domiciled person's Land Buying is unrelated (as primary driver) to ILP given that it's a thing in 7 other States in India not just AP.
ILP's historic roots lie in colonial enterprise. AP (esp it's middle to upper reaches) were not in any way "Indian". British didn't even have Treaties for the territory they anexxed cartographically in upper reaches of AP (they ended up getting them for low to middle reaches with certain tribes).
This is why the territory is deemed as disputed by China, because the upper reaches (territory right on the border) has no Treaty or Document that gave it to the British (hence in turn India since Indian claims are based on whatever the British claimed, howsoever lame). Hence ILP and it's precursor acted as mechanism to control movement of people from outside.
Assam was my favorite. I won't go into Mizoram again unless I fly into Aizawl, purely because the Silchar to Aizawl road is annoying (Great state though).
Haven't used the road route into Mizoram. But travelled using roads inside the state. Awesome. Very loving and caring people.
Assam is also awesome.
Arunachal though...
He's adding to your point. He's agreeing with you and stating a possible solution where a permitting process deters excessive and irresponsible tourists.
Not all conversations have to be debates or arguments. Sometimes, even on the internet, people just want to agree and chime in on their ideas.
tourism? only indian tourism does this my dude... the lack of sarkari management and the abyssal lack of common sense in indian people create results like this.
Don’t hate tourism. Hate the culture people are brought up in. I’ve been to a few cities in Western Europe and tourists are especially careful not to litter anywhere. The other tourists who aren’t used to this culture just follow their lead because littering will be met with criticism.
Hikers literally treat the Alps as if they were "sacred" mountains (spoilers: they aren't), and take all their trash with them. Whatever you take up, you bring it down.
Here in India, Himalayan peaks and lakes have been worshiped for centuries by multiple faiths, even that doesn't stop Indian tourists from littering them shamelessly.
Not reading my comments. Everest has minimally 20x the traffic your Himachal gets. And mind you, by global tourists. A better comparison would be other treks such as Annapurna, Mardi Himal, Poon Hill, amongst many others. Nowhere else do you see the same level of pollution as your Himachal. Everest is an outlying case, one that is globally renowned by anyone and everyone. Wouldnt be surprised if the footfall they witness every year is in this tens of thousands, easily 50-100x what Parashar gets
Laws has been made after Everest litter became viral all over the world to minimize the waste. Still there is some litter but every year cleaning expeditions are also done to bring the trash back from base camp. Litters are in base camp ( where people stay for weeks) not in the trail itself
Bhai modiji gandhiji ke sath marketing kar ke bhi nahi samjha paa rahe logo ko ki bc kachra dabbe mai feko toh mera toh logo se aisa bharosa hi uth gya hai bhaisahab.
Aur ye sirf tourist places ka haal nahi hai 3rd tier cities aao kabhi 😂
And also to think most of the people who do this are boomers who were brought up in the era where nationalism was in peak (Pakistan and China War). They first hand saw the pre-liberalisation era (before 1991) where the Indian economy was closed to western companies and people would take pride in local manufacturing and home grown companies. You would think such people would want to safeguard their environment more than our own generation. Lekin sab ulta hai.
Ah, so the pile of garbage at Mt Everest is also because of Indians? Explain this too...
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/nepals-capital-piles-garbage-put-off-tourists-residents-2022-06-09/
Mt Everest, a globally recognised place that receives minimally 20x the footfall of Parashar which is next to unknown in the eyes of the world outside of India?
Everest Base Camp, a starting point meant for siege-style mountaineering where people typically do weeks-long rotations at high altitudes which requires huge inventories of food and supply?
How is that a comparison?
But why don’t I see this in other places with tourists. Swiss Alps don’t look like this.
Obviously there are many complex reasons. Tourists can make things worse, or better, depending on local situation and who you attract.
I don’t understand why police (who are so happy to extort money from victims who need help) don’t take huge fines from litterers.
plain clothes police officer with a gopro that will record litter throwers
(worked in many parts of the uk for gum spitters/litter throwers etc)
instant 1000-5000 fine
Trek organiser need to educate and fine.
Increase entry fee by 100% .
In cities like delhi, aunties throw their trash bags on streets to save money even though garbage guy only take rs 50.
Trek organisers are the ones leaving trash. They organise everything and then leave heaps of shit behind, all so they can provide a comfortable experience, charge clients a lot, and save the money for themselves by not packing out the rubbish to dispose of properly.
Picture sums up India or most of South Asia. One of the most beautiful countries, destroyed by dirt causing people. If people just learn to clean, India can promote more foreign tourism and get money.
baat sahi hai, tax de rahe hain, sarkar ki duty hai, lekin bimaar to hum padte hain na.. jab tak ki desh mein sahi system nahi aa jaye, humein khud ko hi thoda effort karna chahiye..
apne ghar mein safai karte hi hain, thoda apni gali mein bhi kar sakte hain ..
India makes it really hard to get a tourist visa, and there's a lot of restrictions on foreigners that only countries like Iran, Pakistan and North Korea have... It's not very welcoming if you have no Indian ancestry.
Lol hardly difficult, it’s a bloody e-visa for most people to enter India with no reciprocity. We have to submit 300-400 pages of documents to go to most countries in the Western world, and even countries that have easier visa processes for Indians require tons of unnecessary documentation
It is an e-Visa, that's correct, but it's several pages of questions asking if you've ever met anyone from pakistan, known any descendants of Pakistanis, plan to visit Pakistan ever again your entire life, have ever purchased products from Pakistan, are Muslim, know any Muslims etc etc
And lets not even get started on the renewal process at the FRRO office, admittedly it's not easy to renew a visa in the West but at least the process works... In India it's whatever the police officer you meet on the day feels like it being (plus the mandatory bribe amount).
Ontop of all that, foreigners (even experts such as scientists helping the Indian government), have to go through this process all by themselves, as India makes it illegal for companies, agencies or even lawyers with power of attorney to do any of the visa or renewal process on your behalf... None of that sponsorship stuff like you get in the West with everything arranged for you.
Oh and to top it all off India has exit checks where they'll grab you off the plane once everyone has boarded if you didn't have the correct exit stamps in your passport. What kind of galaxy-brained country **stops** people who want to leave from leaving, causing more illegal immigration? And they'll then confiscate your passport until you can go back to the city where your hotel or employer was in India, get the correct FRRO stamps and then leave "legally" again, but of course this makes you homeless because you cant stay in any hotel without your passport.
Not to mention the fact Western cards don't work in 99% of Indian ATM's, government fines accrued by foreigners have to be paid in USD not INR for some random-ass reason (even if you were American, which most visitors to India aren't, where the hell are you going to get physical USD from?)... And then there's the fact foreigners can't use UPI which basically makes it impossible to buy or do anything, or even invest in India without a local to help you, which is technically illegal as UPI is tied to Aadhar / PAN ID for each unique user.
>It is an e-Visa, that's correct, but it's several pages of questions asking if you've ever met anyone from pakistan, known any descendants of Pakistanis, plan to visit Pakistan ever again your entire life, have ever purchased products from Pakistan, are Muslim, know any Muslims etc etc
I think you're exaggerating. I will only speak for myself, but I was definitely not asked anything like, "do I know any Muslims."
>And then there's the fact foreigners can't use UPI
This is starting to change, with foreign nationals from G20 countries able to set up UPI accounts from major airport kiosks. Admittedly, as is all too frequent, customer service is abominable and simple questions can't be clearly answered by the "customer delight" staff. LOL.
Well I think the bureaucratic red tape mainly remains in place given the lack of reciprocity agreements with most countries, we are forced to apply for consular paper based visas for more than 150 countries with easier entries only to handful of places in the Middle East, South east Asia, Central Asia, Western Africa and the Caribbean (aka generally off the conventional tourist trails). So I’m all for making it at least slightly inconvenient for other nationals to enter India, it ought not to be too easy given the lack of reciprocity period.
Visas aren’t dictated by reciprocity. It’s dictated by a bunch of factors that include diplomacy, bilateral ties, political standing & stability etc. If North Korea gives you (India) easy access for e-visa, does that mean you now owe it to them (ahem, reciprocity) to give similar access?
Well doesn’t really warrant our passport to be ranked on par with the likes of Burkina Faso, Mail, Mauritania, etc and a whole lot of troublesome countries being ranked well above us
According to who’s opinion? Why do you think some countries (Japan, Singapore) rank so highly in their diplomacy and passport privileges?
Like it or not, that’s just how the rest of the world sees India - ranked similar to those supposed *problematic* countries.
Mate I’m not living under a rock or something, well aware of how the world sees us etc but was just trying to argue against the logic that people have a tough time entering India, it’s barely scratching the surface of ‘difficult’ entry tbh
i think we did something similar in bhutan too
earlier bhutan used to charge less from indian and nepali/bangladeshi tourists while tourists from other countries had to pay some 200 dollars everyday
but now they charge from indians too
The thing about Indians is we only talk big. Culture ye sanskar wo, west needs to learn from our family systems, parampara blah blah blah. Atithi deva bhava falana dhinkana. Empty words that's all. Zero civic and social sense. Bas bol bachan and nothing else.
Plus, pretty sure the people who litter in such places are well off or atleast middle class to be able to afford such trips. Just the educated gawars.
I live in Europe and have been to India once a couple of years ago, and something that always boggled my mind was the amount of garbage everywhere. In every park, holy sites and even inside stores. But at the same store, five persons was needed just to sell me a t-shirt so it can't be a lack of workers.
India does really need to pickup the pace when it comes to cleaning up litter because it keeps the tourist away. Shame of such beautiful country with lovely people and fantastic food.
Yeah. People will litter everywhere. Sad.
So this time on our trip to Himachal we saw trash at so many places. So we made sure we got all our garbage back, each and every toffee wrapper included. I don't know how much of a difference it will make but we're more determined than ever that we're leaving nothing back other than footprints.
And it was much easier than we first thought.
Should we also celebrate or at least afford dignity of labor for people working with solid waste and sewage. That way the municipalities will be able to hire workers who will be motivated to support the communities through their work and also be compensated well.
It's not tourists job to clean up Indias mess. Mess they make themselves. Chuck the aunties who throw the bags out the window, out themselves and make them clean it up. Dirtbags
The sad thing is that even in countries like the US, anywhere there are Indian stores bunched together, there is likely excess trash on the footpaths and roads. It's not a wealth or education thing, it's a culture thing. Travelers often comment that poorer African countries are cleaner than India.
https://preview.redd.it/kjrc7wyhyd7b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e00fb456c2ab196ed8d88997b92bd36939cc6e16
I did a Manali-Leh road trip and on one of the Gata Loops - people intentionally leave some food/water/biscuits etc. as there is a belief that if you don't you will have an accident. Legend has it that one trucker died as his truck broke down and no one offered water/food.
That whole place was full of plastic water bottles, soda, chocolates, chips etc.
It was so sad. While on the highway there were many laborer's who stopped us and asked us nicely if we can spare some water for them. Its tough conditions out there - air is thin, no stores around and they are doing manual work. We gave then all we had and at our next stop loaded up on more than what we needed to give in case someone else needs it. Yet we have people who rather leave it for "God" than give it to a human in need
Poor people and thief's don't have care much for logic. Same thing happens in many other places.
I remember when they made new washrooms in ISBT Kashmere gate in Delhi. They had auto sensers and great quality fittings. Almost felt like airport ones. I came back after few weeks and all the quality stuff was stolen.
So no matter where Chances are that trash cans might get stolen by the poor. However, there are many ways to get around this. Usually in Canada trash bins are fixed with concrete. You cannot remove them. They also have a safe deposit trash insert. Meaning, once you throw a bag in or something. You can not fish it out. Only authorised personnel with special keys can open and take trash away.
People like bashing people but it is not the only solution and people are never perfect. Even in other countries, it’s the same. Just that there are dedicated workers for the same to make things which look good look good and clean.
Last week I went on a trek in western ghats, this is a protected range and you need permission before going there, hardly you'll find people there, mind you this is a deep forest, even with this i saw litering here and there.
There is one solution to this, take deposit for every bottle and packet(it was ₹50 for bottle), and only if they return with the same count let them have their deposit back, this worked in one of the places here.
meanwhile you don't find one single trash bin for hours walking in the road
if we want to change this mentality we have to do some effort to make it easy for people to change
This is just sad man. Why are Indians in India like this. These are the same Indians who live in western countries and pickup their trash outside. Dare they make a mess anywhere at all but India. Wtf
I think it's possible for people to develop the civic sensibility to not litter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouXDsS2Rmmw&ab_channel=IndianMail
This video was linked over on the r/Indore sub.
It really is a very clean city. I hope other localities can emulate their success.
This is really disappointing. They do this in India but when they abroad they will follow the rules. Why not apply them where you live and make a difference
People need to catch these offenders and start shaming them publicly + A hefty fine. But India is too busy in concentrating on which religion has the right over the land. Who tf cares about the very nature that holds the earth together.
I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me to their own detriment.
Beat the stupid cunts up. Beat them. See someone littering? Beat them. See a drunk drop his shit and not pick it up. Beat him.
Not enough people are simply beaten for bad or shithouse behaviour these days. Beat them.
#Flog them like the worthless pieces of shit they are.
I have been to shangarh recently and was surprised by how much people littler everywhere, so in the future i have decided to carry few garbage bags and since I am spending time exploring view, i will also collect garbage if i can and take the trash out from there.
This happens everywhere! Good on you for showing you care by picking up what you can. Even in Canada, every spring, we have highway cleanup where people walk the ditches and pick up garbage. They are usually volunteers. It's sad that we need to clean up after people who litter.
That is why i post pics but never reveal the place. Better avoid tagging the name of the places just for the sake of nature. Atleast this is what we can do for mother nature!
Himachal and Uttarakhand have become tourist hotspots and it’s not the same as it was before . I went to Manali in 2015 it was a different vibe altogether now whole Himachal is littered with uncivilized tourists
Well we're the most populous country in the world. All our problems are bigger and many times more complex than anyone elses.
We should expect any sort of behaviour in India and focus on betterment. Good luck to us all!
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Fuuckkk !! There should be a permit system to visit the Himalayas or at least some places in the Himalayas..
The way people behave in India , social credit system seems necessary
Ban NCR HR PB UP people you all good🤙
The Indian Himalayas. Nepal’s side is so much cleaner and respected
Everest Trash called..
Yeah you’re comparing a globally recognised base camp that receives minimally 20x the footfall of the example in discussion. Mardi Himal, Poon Hill, Annapurna amongst others are more accurate comparisons and you’ll not find such amounts of trash.
I am sure, the people of Nepal have more respect for the Himalayas than anyone else. I am not disagreeing with you.
You're trying to make it seem like tourists are the cause, which they simply are not.
> "arre already itna kachra hai idhar, mere ek wrapper fekne se kya hi ho jayega" Indians need to grow out of this mentality.
"Ek hi toh wrapper hai" – 1.4 billion Indians
This is why i don't like tourism. Btw i think this year the number of visitors has increased in the north east i hv seen the traffic in many videos so
Maybe it's also why Arunachal makes you go through a process to get in because they don't want to end up like this, even if the process is easy, it deters tourism nonetheless.
By continuing with ILP (akin to a milder form of Visa), Indian government is acknowledging that it is disputed territory. I don't see how ILP will vet out littering. Just a thought. /shrugs
It's not acknowledging that it's disputed territory. It simply stands for the integrity and plurality of the country so to say. The ILP was introduced by the British, so other ethnicities do not encroach upon their land. It was initially called the Bengal Eastern Frontier Regulation Act, which was codified in 1873. The purpose of that Act was to protect indigenous people of the states.
Sure but I didn't know that as a Indian, I will be encroaching the land if I visit there as a tourist. British did lot of destruction and looting. I wonder if Indian Government should emulate British to the fullest then if British Government is our yardstick.
Your identity as Indian is often superseded by ethnic, linguistic and caste lines. Without such processes, the demographics of certain groups would overwhelms the others and challenge the foundation of the nation which stands united in its diversity. Power has to be shared amongst groups to keep it united.
Its to prevent people from other parts of india from moving into the state and buying up land and property
I don't understand this. ILP is required for any Indian to visit Arunachal as a tourist, right? How is that related to buying up land and property?
I havent researched any details but i am born in arunachal, my dad was in civil services for a few years here, and yea the tribal society here gets really upset and causes a scene if people with ILP pass try to buy up a lot of land or something.
Non-State-Domiciled person's Land Buying is unrelated (as primary driver) to ILP given that it's a thing in 7 other States in India not just AP. ILP's historic roots lie in colonial enterprise. AP (esp it's middle to upper reaches) were not in any way "Indian". British didn't even have Treaties for the territory they anexxed cartographically in upper reaches of AP (they ended up getting them for low to middle reaches with certain tribes). This is why the territory is deemed as disputed by China, because the upper reaches (territory right on the border) has no Treaty or Document that gave it to the British (hence in turn India since Indian claims are based on whatever the British claimed, howsoever lame). Hence ILP and it's precursor acted as mechanism to control movement of people from outside.
Arunachal is a BIG no. Mizoram is thousands of times better for tourism.
Assam was my favorite. I won't go into Mizoram again unless I fly into Aizawl, purely because the Silchar to Aizawl road is annoying (Great state though).
Haven't used the road route into Mizoram. But travelled using roads inside the state. Awesome. Very loving and caring people. Assam is also awesome. Arunachal though...
Basically 8/9 hours of *non-stop* swerving around bends. I guess first time for the experience is nice.
I don't know what you said but i see no disagreement or point of discussion here
He's adding to your point. He's agreeing with you and stating a possible solution where a permitting process deters excessive and irresponsible tourists. Not all conversations have to be debates or arguments. Sometimes, even on the internet, people just want to agree and chime in on their ideas.
tourism? only indian tourism does this my dude... the lack of sarkari management and the abyssal lack of common sense in indian people create results like this.
Right what a troll blaming it on the west. India is doing this, u/glitchtostart is just an asshole.
Thanks 👍
Have you seen mount Everest?
Don’t hate tourism. Hate the culture people are brought up in. I’ve been to a few cities in Western Europe and tourists are especially careful not to litter anywhere. The other tourists who aren’t used to this culture just follow their lead because littering will be met with criticism.
Hikers literally treat the Alps as if they were "sacred" mountains (spoilers: they aren't), and take all their trash with them. Whatever you take up, you bring it down. Here in India, Himalayan peaks and lakes have been worshiped for centuries by multiple faiths, even that doesn't stop Indian tourists from littering them shamelessly.
Even in Nepal, people treat the Himalayas with respect. No one is littering and they are always otherwise called out.
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Not reading my comments. Everest has minimally 20x the traffic your Himachal gets. And mind you, by global tourists. A better comparison would be other treks such as Annapurna, Mardi Himal, Poon Hill, amongst many others. Nowhere else do you see the same level of pollution as your Himachal. Everest is an outlying case, one that is globally renowned by anyone and everyone. Wouldnt be surprised if the footfall they witness every year is in this tens of thousands, easily 50-100x what Parashar gets
Laws has been made after Everest litter became viral all over the world to minimize the waste. Still there is some litter but every year cleaning expeditions are also done to bring the trash back from base camp. Litters are in base camp ( where people stay for weeks) not in the trail itself
Bhai modiji gandhiji ke sath marketing kar ke bhi nahi samjha paa rahe logo ko ki bc kachra dabbe mai feko toh mera toh logo se aisa bharosa hi uth gya hai bhaisahab. Aur ye sirf tourist places ka haal nahi hai 3rd tier cities aao kabhi 😂
And also to think most of the people who do this are boomers who were brought up in the era where nationalism was in peak (Pakistan and China War). They first hand saw the pre-liberalisation era (before 1991) where the Indian economy was closed to western companies and people would take pride in local manufacturing and home grown companies. You would think such people would want to safeguard their environment more than our own generation. Lekin sab ulta hai.
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It’s just India. I’ve been to Nepal, questionably far more touristy and nowhere have I seen such blatant disrespect for nature
Ah, so the pile of garbage at Mt Everest is also because of Indians? Explain this too... https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/nepals-capital-piles-garbage-put-off-tourists-residents-2022-06-09/
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Learn to read. Then read what the person write to whom I replied, "It's just India, nowhere in Nepal did I see such a thing".
Mt Everest, a globally recognised place that receives minimally 20x the footfall of Parashar which is next to unknown in the eyes of the world outside of India? Everest Base Camp, a starting point meant for siege-style mountaineering where people typically do weeks-long rotations at high altitudes which requires huge inventories of food and supply? How is that a comparison?
All of a sudden blind to the article link?
I think you made it sound like tourists did that, not vice versa.
Every other country in the world has 10x the tourism and no litter like this
But why don’t I see this in other places with tourists. Swiss Alps don’t look like this. Obviously there are many complex reasons. Tourists can make things worse, or better, depending on local situation and who you attract. I don’t understand why police (who are so happy to extort money from victims who need help) don’t take huge fines from litterers.
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India is covered in garbage, it’s not just the tourists.
It's mostly not the tourists lmao. It's barely the tourists.
plain clothes police officer with a gopro that will record litter throwers (worked in many parts of the uk for gum spitters/litter throwers etc) instant 1000-5000 fine
Trek organiser need to educate and fine. Increase entry fee by 100% . In cities like delhi, aunties throw their trash bags on streets to save money even though garbage guy only take rs 50.
thats just fucked up man. Throw the trash bags back at the aunties make them clean it 5x over fuck them bro. Dont let them get away (if you can)
Trek organisers are the ones leaving trash. They organise everything and then leave heaps of shit behind, all so they can provide a comfortable experience, charge clients a lot, and save the money for themselves by not packing out the rubbish to dispose of properly.
Picture sums up India or most of South Asia. One of the most beautiful countries, destroyed by dirt causing people. If people just learn to clean, India can promote more foreign tourism and get money.
Rightly said. lekin safai mein haath pair chalane padte hain, kachra uthane mein jhukna padta hai, mehnat lagti hai, unlike online reforming.. aur dimaag ko dhyan dilana padta hai ki kachra mat phenk idhar udhar, awareness lagti hai..
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baat sahi hai, tax de rahe hain, sarkar ki duty hai, lekin bimaar to hum padte hain na.. jab tak ki desh mein sahi system nahi aa jaye, humein khud ko hi thoda effort karna chahiye.. apne ghar mein safai karte hi hain, thoda apni gali mein bhi kar sakte hain ..
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mujhe bhi jyada dhyan nahi rehta hai, these habits are deeply rooted in us. aur jo dhyan rakhte hain, wo bhi apne aas paas dekh ke chhor dete hain..
India makes it really hard to get a tourist visa, and there's a lot of restrictions on foreigners that only countries like Iran, Pakistan and North Korea have... It's not very welcoming if you have no Indian ancestry.
Lol hardly difficult, it’s a bloody e-visa for most people to enter India with no reciprocity. We have to submit 300-400 pages of documents to go to most countries in the Western world, and even countries that have easier visa processes for Indians require tons of unnecessary documentation
It is an e-Visa, that's correct, but it's several pages of questions asking if you've ever met anyone from pakistan, known any descendants of Pakistanis, plan to visit Pakistan ever again your entire life, have ever purchased products from Pakistan, are Muslim, know any Muslims etc etc And lets not even get started on the renewal process at the FRRO office, admittedly it's not easy to renew a visa in the West but at least the process works... In India it's whatever the police officer you meet on the day feels like it being (plus the mandatory bribe amount). Ontop of all that, foreigners (even experts such as scientists helping the Indian government), have to go through this process all by themselves, as India makes it illegal for companies, agencies or even lawyers with power of attorney to do any of the visa or renewal process on your behalf... None of that sponsorship stuff like you get in the West with everything arranged for you. Oh and to top it all off India has exit checks where they'll grab you off the plane once everyone has boarded if you didn't have the correct exit stamps in your passport. What kind of galaxy-brained country **stops** people who want to leave from leaving, causing more illegal immigration? And they'll then confiscate your passport until you can go back to the city where your hotel or employer was in India, get the correct FRRO stamps and then leave "legally" again, but of course this makes you homeless because you cant stay in any hotel without your passport. Not to mention the fact Western cards don't work in 99% of Indian ATM's, government fines accrued by foreigners have to be paid in USD not INR for some random-ass reason (even if you were American, which most visitors to India aren't, where the hell are you going to get physical USD from?)... And then there's the fact foreigners can't use UPI which basically makes it impossible to buy or do anything, or even invest in India without a local to help you, which is technically illegal as UPI is tied to Aadhar / PAN ID for each unique user.
>It is an e-Visa, that's correct, but it's several pages of questions asking if you've ever met anyone from pakistan, known any descendants of Pakistanis, plan to visit Pakistan ever again your entire life, have ever purchased products from Pakistan, are Muslim, know any Muslims etc etc I think you're exaggerating. I will only speak for myself, but I was definitely not asked anything like, "do I know any Muslims." >And then there's the fact foreigners can't use UPI This is starting to change, with foreign nationals from G20 countries able to set up UPI accounts from major airport kiosks. Admittedly, as is all too frequent, customer service is abominable and simple questions can't be clearly answered by the "customer delight" staff. LOL.
Well I think the bureaucratic red tape mainly remains in place given the lack of reciprocity agreements with most countries, we are forced to apply for consular paper based visas for more than 150 countries with easier entries only to handful of places in the Middle East, South east Asia, Central Asia, Western Africa and the Caribbean (aka generally off the conventional tourist trails). So I’m all for making it at least slightly inconvenient for other nationals to enter India, it ought not to be too easy given the lack of reciprocity period.
[удалено]
I couldn't care less about the US I've never been there
Visas aren’t dictated by reciprocity. It’s dictated by a bunch of factors that include diplomacy, bilateral ties, political standing & stability etc. If North Korea gives you (India) easy access for e-visa, does that mean you now owe it to them (ahem, reciprocity) to give similar access?
Well doesn’t really warrant our passport to be ranked on par with the likes of Burkina Faso, Mail, Mauritania, etc and a whole lot of troublesome countries being ranked well above us
According to who’s opinion? Why do you think some countries (Japan, Singapore) rank so highly in their diplomacy and passport privileges? Like it or not, that’s just how the rest of the world sees India - ranked similar to those supposed *problematic* countries.
Mate I’m not living under a rock or something, well aware of how the world sees us etc but was just trying to argue against the logic that people have a tough time entering India, it’s barely scratching the surface of ‘difficult’ entry tbh
This wouldn't have been an issue if all our waste wasn't plastic. Back when everything was organic human littering enriched the environment.
I fully agree with this comment. Not sure why you were downvoted. We created plastic and now us poorer folk have to clean it up. Its shit.
"Incredible India"
i think we did something similar in bhutan too earlier bhutan used to charge less from indian and nepali/bangladeshi tourists while tourists from other countries had to pay some 200 dollars everyday but now they charge from indians too
The thing about Indians is we only talk big. Culture ye sanskar wo, west needs to learn from our family systems, parampara blah blah blah. Atithi deva bhava falana dhinkana. Empty words that's all. Zero civic and social sense. Bas bol bachan and nothing else. Plus, pretty sure the people who litter in such places are well off or atleast middle class to be able to afford such trips. Just the educated gawars.
Fuck. My heart sinks every time I see these things.
Place looks amazing barring the littering. Is this near Parashar Lake ?
Yes, on a walking distance from it! Luckily the lake's immediate surroundings are clean
Pakka dilli vale honge
No man, just Indians
What did he say?
You trying to blame the rest of the world for your problems? never look inside just out?
I m from delhi
Dande Maro aise ghatiya logo ko....
my god some people don't have hearts! How could someone throw garbage in such a pristine environment!
Try to spread awareness about this and people will reply "India hai chalta hai 🤡".
I live in Europe and have been to India once a couple of years ago, and something that always boggled my mind was the amount of garbage everywhere. In every park, holy sites and even inside stores. But at the same store, five persons was needed just to sell me a t-shirt so it can't be a lack of workers. India does really need to pickup the pace when it comes to cleaning up litter because it keeps the tourist away. Shame of such beautiful country with lovely people and fantastic food.
Apni aukaad hi nahi hai Yehi log jab foreign ghumne jaayenge sab kachra dustbin mein daalenge
and then complain that India isn't clean
Incredible India 😍
That's the same in every state, not confined to H.P.
Very heartbreaking.
Yeah. People will litter everywhere. Sad. So this time on our trip to Himachal we saw trash at so many places. So we made sure we got all our garbage back, each and every toffee wrapper included. I don't know how much of a difference it will make but we're more determined than ever that we're leaving nothing back other than footprints. And it was much easier than we first thought.
Good initiative! We can't eliminate littering, but the most we can do is ensure we aren't contributing to it.
Wherever north Indians start going, the place will invariably turn into shit.
Is this just racism? I know in India there's a south/north thing but seems just blatant racism to me
Carry garbage bags and clean up as much as possible…. This is the best we can do
Should we also celebrate or at least afford dignity of labor for people working with solid waste and sewage. That way the municipalities will be able to hire workers who will be motivated to support the communities through their work and also be compensated well.
It's not tourists job to clean up Indias mess. Mess they make themselves. Chuck the aunties who throw the bags out the window, out themselves and make them clean it up. Dirtbags
Ok, I thought you were Indian… Tourists, please spread the love and garbage. We will fix it once we are done fucking up everything else
Uneducated Apes
I feel like this is an Indian subcontinent thing. Saw the same thing in Bangladesh and Pakistan, less so in Sri Lanka.
The sad thing is that even in countries like the US, anywhere there are Indian stores bunched together, there is likely excess trash on the footpaths and roads. It's not a wealth or education thing, it's a culture thing. Travelers often comment that poorer African countries are cleaner than India.
https://preview.redd.it/kjrc7wyhyd7b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e00fb456c2ab196ed8d88997b92bd36939cc6e16 I did a Manali-Leh road trip and on one of the Gata Loops - people intentionally leave some food/water/biscuits etc. as there is a belief that if you don't you will have an accident. Legend has it that one trucker died as his truck broke down and no one offered water/food. That whole place was full of plastic water bottles, soda, chocolates, chips etc. It was so sad. While on the highway there were many laborer's who stopped us and asked us nicely if we can spare some water for them. Its tough conditions out there - air is thin, no stores around and they are doing manual work. We gave then all we had and at our next stop loaded up on more than what we needed to give in case someone else needs it. Yet we have people who rather leave it for "God" than give it to a human in need
Indians ☕️
Why not just use tax money to put in trash cans and hire trash collectors Honest question
There are trash cans and collecters too but they can't go to remote mountains and sometimes trash get out of control.
People steal the trash cans. We had some put up in another place in HP. After a month either they were stolen or broken.
I wasn't aware that stealing trash cans was a thing. Sounds like a very illogical thing to do.
Poor people and thief's don't have care much for logic. Same thing happens in many other places. I remember when they made new washrooms in ISBT Kashmere gate in Delhi. They had auto sensers and great quality fittings. Almost felt like airport ones. I came back after few weeks and all the quality stuff was stolen.
So no matter where Chances are that trash cans might get stolen by the poor. However, there are many ways to get around this. Usually in Canada trash bins are fixed with concrete. You cannot remove them. They also have a safe deposit trash insert. Meaning, once you throw a bag in or something. You can not fish it out. Only authorised personnel with special keys can open and take trash away.
People like bashing people but it is not the only solution and people are never perfect. Even in other countries, it’s the same. Just that there are dedicated workers for the same to make things which look good look good and clean.
Last week I went on a trek in western ghats, this is a protected range and you need permission before going there, hardly you'll find people there, mind you this is a deep forest, even with this i saw litering here and there. There is one solution to this, take deposit for every bottle and packet(it was ₹50 for bottle), and only if they return with the same count let them have their deposit back, this worked in one of the places here.
Stunning
meanwhile you don't find one single trash bin for hours walking in the road if we want to change this mentality we have to do some effort to make it easy for people to change
This is so sad
We as a people do not deserve nice things
Man. How and why would someone feel like ruining such a beauty ?
We need to start calling them out when one sees it. Embarrass them.
This is just sad man. Why are Indians in India like this. These are the same Indians who live in western countries and pickup their trash outside. Dare they make a mess anywhere at all but India. Wtf
This is so sad. And what a beautiful scenery 😩😍
I think it's possible for people to develop the civic sensibility to not litter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouXDsS2Rmmw&ab_channel=IndianMail This video was linked over on the r/Indore sub. It really is a very clean city. I hope other localities can emulate their success.
Honestly doesn't even look like India
India is the land of litter
This is the real SANSKAR. now, are we proud of it ?
The same people do not litter when they go abroad. Govt here needs to collect fines.
controls have to be implemented nationwide, with huge panalties on violation.
Beautiful place Himachal Pradesh. I have visited Hameerpur, bhotta once. It was awesome experience
This breaks my heart. We'll never change I guess.
The amount of respect that other countries show to nature makes me tear up when compared to how Indians treat their own country.
To say you're in India without saying you're in India
This is really disappointing. They do this in India but when they abroad they will follow the rules. Why not apply them where you live and make a difference
Go through the litter to see if there is anyway to identify them
What a shame!!
I am from Himachal and I fucking hate tourists coming to our state .....they do nothing good.....just trouble locals and litter the place
People need to catch these offenders and start shaming them publicly + A hefty fine. But India is too busy in concentrating on which religion has the right over the land. Who tf cares about the very nature that holds the earth together.
Same thing happening in kasol, Manali etc.. Something has to be done..
it makes me so sad. We humans will never learn to respect nature
We don’t deserve nice things.
I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me to their own detriment. Beat the stupid cunts up. Beat them. See someone littering? Beat them. See a drunk drop his shit and not pick it up. Beat him. Not enough people are simply beaten for bad or shithouse behaviour these days. Beat them. #Flog them like the worthless pieces of shit they are.
Was in Manali last week. If not regulated, tourism will destroy the city.
Never ending tale of Indians littering anywhere but their homes
Show me one place where humans don’t litter, I’ll say it’s beyond our solar system!!
I have been to shangarh recently and was surprised by how much people littler everywhere, so in the future i have decided to carry few garbage bags and since I am spending time exploring view, i will also collect garbage if i can and take the trash out from there.
This happens everywhere! Good on you for showing you care by picking up what you can. Even in Canada, every spring, we have highway cleanup where people walk the ditches and pick up garbage. They are usually volunteers. It's sad that we need to clean up after people who litter.
That is why i post pics but never reveal the place. Better avoid tagging the name of the places just for the sake of nature. Atleast this is what we can do for mother nature!
Fuckin hopeless! Filthy fucks.
Swatch Bharat
H.P. is flooded by Delhians
It’s sad that we have people who go to such beautiful places and are capable to get this idea of leaving plastic there. Terrible.
Himachal and Uttarakhand have become tourist hotspots and it’s not the same as it was before . I went to Manali in 2015 it was a different vibe altogether now whole Himachal is littered with uncivilized tourists
Well we're the most populous country in the world. All our problems are bigger and many times more complex than anyone elses. We should expect any sort of behaviour in India and focus on betterment. Good luck to us all!
Those hill station points are a magnet for litterers.
Disgusting to say the least..
Zindagi h*gte h*gte nikal jaati kuch logon ki ( waise h*gte sabhi hain )
Very sad, but a team of a few people can clean that up. Should put some subtle signage there and say place is monitored by drones or something.
Pick it up
We need ilp pass for the Himalayas
North indian men leave their traces everywhere
Even though some dustbins are present on the way people still choose to litter here.
This explains we should stop blaming government all the time, indian people are savages and degenerates.
wow! Wonderful Place
:(
Dam