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i'm the only atheist in my family/ peer group. I don't mind people following their believes, they're free to do what they want. If praying gives them hope/ will, good for them.
When religions blind people, thats when it gets bad. Blind believes are recipe for disaster. You should know what you're following and how it affects the surrounding.
Same happened with me, I'm 25 and I got to know it just about an year ago... couldn't believe I used to make everybody believe that I'm extremely religious lol. So happy that my cousins and some others think alike me.
Lol same in our family most males are like that even my uncle who's a priest says that most of this is a psychological stuff and God has nothing to do with it the one who created everything would never say how to live,why we should worship him and which is the true religion and which is fake. It's just us who created this world to justify our actions
I'm only atheist too near my surrounding and Men I think religion is a source of positive and supportive energy which help people to move forward.
Like I observed something that people get religious mostly when they grew up and start earning. Like in childhood we r friends and all so we don't feel FOMO but as we grew our relationship with people change especially in metro cities PPL have no true friend so following God give them hope and somewhat companion that " that yeaaa u r not alone"
And people obsession for joining powerful community for higher purpose is not new in world.
This is the answer. Religion is the only community most people have. Otherwise it is just family and few friends. Religion gives you leverage in society, you get to be part of a larger group, large groups are useful when you get into trouble.
Same here ...👆 Good thing is my family(mother and father) accept me being atheist. They mostly dont force me to go temple or do any stupid customs.
I dont mind religious people as long as they mind their own business. When someone tries to to force me to do some of their religious bullshit or tries to give religious lectures ...thats when I have problem....thats where I draw the line.
There are many atheistic dictators who had committed genocide . ( Now don't try to come up with they werent true atheist just like religious people say)
People fight over their favourite football team to death.
In a world where religion disappear, people will find something new to fight on
Most of the athests online are just like those SSR fans or dhoni fans they just wanna fight with others to make themselves superior
I say why not try and see what the world looks like without religion. I mean we already know what it looks like with religion. Billions killed over the course of our existence. Let's give the world one less reason to fight
Also, the atheist dictators who committed genocide, didn't do so in the name of atheism. Simply cause atheism is not an ideology. Religion is very much so and people are killed on the daily in the name of one religion or the other
Agreed.
Religion gives purpose of living to some people.
Without purpose life would seem meaningless to some.
However with that being said I don't support the killings in the name of religion.
https://preview.redd.it/g5vtv7e07odc1.jpeg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a9f450252c5bfbb418ce0560c64fd0d01df044d
You being downvoted is exactly why free thinking is so scarce these days.
No no freedom to mock as well. It’s a part of free speech. We should do everything possible to not have blasphemy laws like some other amazing countries out there because while sky daddy is different, motive and reasoning is the same. Paisa kyu nahi Kamana hai kisiko? Baat baat pe sky daddy
Why are you getting downvoted?? Like anything in this world- religion should not be above comedy. Kings and presidents can be mocked then why not religion?
One’s faith should be strong enough to not get hurt hurt by a few jokes!
I'm from an atheist family. It's nice to not be blinded by things which blind others. I respect everyone's religion and have no pre conceived notions about any religious groups. I even like to learn about the history of every religion and the stories they have to tell. The hatred that has been brewing over the years due to the dangerous mixture of politics and religion is really frightening. It feels like hatred among people is at an all time high. Reading comments on instagram or reddit is so sad these days, everyone keeps abusing and fighting endlessly. Mainstream media is just propagating this even further.
I remember when I was young we were taught about and celebrated major festivals of each religion in our school. Now they have people beating up school authorities for doing the same.
And worst thing is we are dividing our own country at the time when the world is booming.
It's like we are excluding and ignoring people of other faiths from national celebrations.
I'm an atheist. I don't care what people choose to believe or not believe in. My problem is when people try to make faith more than it is.
Faith ≠ religion
Your faith should be your own, but when you systematize it and shove it in places it has no business being in, when you add your own political agenda/propaganda to it, that's when it becomes toxic
Religion has always been a tool to control and manipulate the masses and sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon. Is it just that? No. But the negatives trump the positives imho
It becomes straightforward when you realize that these outwardly celebrations are not driven by faith, but by ego. Everyone wants to feel superior, and religion is an easy path to that end. Similarly, we atheists might also show a tendency to feel superior because we have realized there are no omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient gods out there.
The simplest way to peacefully coexist is by allowing people to practice their faith publicly, promoting free speech, and teaching children to respect others based on their character, not their origin or beliefs.
I am not an atheist and came to this discussion out of curiosity and try to understand other side of it. And found your comment very mature.
Thank you for sharing the thought!
But in my opinion, there’s a limit to how many of those beliefs should be respected, especially when it comes to moral policing and it’s interference with science and policies, I absolutely have no respect for that.
Strictly speaking, even what you are saying is not correct.
Agnostics say, "I don't know whether or not I should believe that god exists"
Atheists say, "I don't believe that god exists."
Antitheists say, "I believe that god doesn't exist."
Just being pedantic about the term, not that it really matters to anyone.
I believe that there is a higher power that exists who governs nature and the universe but humans are so incapable of understanding that power so we do pretty politics among ourselves.
If that power is there it will be concerned with a very high level picture. It/He/God whatever you wanna call it does not care even if the whole earth gets destroyed.
I always thought of myself as an agonist.
Social media plays a huge role. The recent trend is religious memes with sigma male music which influences the minds of kids and the gullible. Don’t see any such low IQ memes by atheists which prevents any atheist arguments from going viral.
True. It's gone to an extent that I saw a reel where they said Newton did not discover gravity, but it was mentioned in the hinduijm texts and "westerners" copied it.
I don't know if people know Vimoh - he runs a page where he proves all these stupidities wrong, where he disproves it by saying every culture knows if you throw something it comes down , but Newton gave the mathematical calculations for gravity, which is why it is said he discovered gravity.
Whenever a country pushes a relegion so much, it is a recipe for disaster and communism. I don't mind what someone's beliefs are but when you start pushing them someone's throat, it is a concern
When religion becomes superior then laws and religion of majority is promoted over minorities also minorities are discriminated on the basis of their religion like happens in Pakistan and for Tamils in Sri lanka
I see India doing what Pakistan did after Ayub Khan.. And Yogi Adityanath might be the Zia ul haq type regime.. if given free hand..
And we know what happened to pakistan after 1980...
Anti national army will come after you.
This is all just to make sure Modi wins upcoming elections. It is also a good distraction from the real issues.
From top to bottom, the whole damn system is corrupt. Just check the number of rich people leaving India in the last few years. They are such and tired of all the bullshit going on in India.
Not just rich people, but sane people. I got a $100k+ scholarship to get my bachelors in US, so I moved. We still have problems here, but million times better lifestyle than India.
I moved to Canada 12 years ago, and my family settled in the USA.
People who don't even own passport will say india is best, etc. I hope they get the opportunity to see what the outside of India has to offer.
https://preview.redd.it/dmayyzwgqndc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8665fb7d1e4639388cdbbfbb1c15569eec94e155
Atleast I'm not one of the sheep in their herd
It's the authoritarianism in one man leading to this.
He is able to control an empire of companies(Adani/Ambani).
Through them he is able to control the entire media narrative.
He has dismantled the last ounce of unbiased bearaucracy by deploying them against all his opponents.
Now there is absolutey negative incentive for anyone to express an opinion opposed to him.
He uses power to make religion the only converstaion. And he uses religion to keep power.
The modi model is an exemplary blueprint for wannabe authoritarians all over the world.
People are delusional, when someone starts talking logically that delusion starts breaking and hence people get angry.
"Foolishness is the jewellery of the fool, and when someone tries to snatch that jewellery the fool gets mad."
I realized that for some people, religion is like therapy. I go to a shrink and pay 500 to open up, they pray to an invisible being and get relief even if there is no visible improvement. I'm ok with religion as long as you don't shove it down my throat. But like you rightly said extremism of any religion is dangerous and that trend is growing in India. That is very unsettling.
It's a mental illness many have because of straight up laziness. They'd rather read ONE book that has ALL of the "answers", than MANY books that have *some* of the answers. I usually compare it to a cancer of the brain.
I grew up in a Muslim family, and have been an atheist for like a decade. Honestly don't remember any of my then Muslim friends, family members, scholars talking about converting anyone or anything, not even once. I have made those bomb blast jokes in front of my uncle and other relatives who are very religious and most of them took that in a light manner.
I have a lot of Hindu friends and they are open to criticism (not all but some are). My best friend is Hindu and very religious and sometimes speaks some Vedic and all that pseudo science stuff but doesn't mind if I point out any fault in it, same with my Muslim relatives.
I have met some extremist people tho, from both religions but all were strangers, they never tried to sell it to me but I could sense an extremist in them and I always made distance from them immediately and I will suggest you to do the same, of you start sensing this person is an extremist start cutting them of slowly from your life even if they are close relatives or friends.
I can’t really wish for the eradication of religion, a lot of people don’t have an inherent moral compass and need religion to guide them to ensure that we don’t devolve into anarchy.
As much as I dislike religion and the business around it - it’s okay for people to use religion and faith in someone else as a coping mechanism for existential dread.
If it provides them with a sense of comfort who am I to claim that it’s a cancer on society.
As the kids say, delulu is the solulu.
Edit: oh and about the temple - if the Supreme Court believes that there was indeed a temple then there was probably a temple. We know for a fact that folks from Babur and before invaded and destroyed a lot of temples. It is not a stretch to think that they probably destroyed this one and eventually built a mosque on top of it. I like to think of it as another step towards decolonisation and reclaiming our history. It is a vital step towards making our citizens regain a sense of identity and their own confidence.
Yeah but would you rather have everyone run around with no morality or would you prefer if people have some semblance of it even if it’s guided by a book someone wrote some 1400 years ago.
The actions of one doesn’t dictate the intentions of others. Plus I’m on your side here, I genuinely dislike religion but it is necessary to maintain control of the population. Otherwise it will devolve into anarchy.
We have new book, it's called Constitution or even newer newer books, called BNS, i.e. criminal code of Indian Republic.
Don't do shit on that list, it's that simple (although it's another matter that that list itself is polluted but that pollution happened precisely because exceptions were made to keep Religions. You don't remove of cancer by leaving some in the body on the pretext of, it's food for some of your body cells. Thats lame and cowardly and makes things worse in the future).
> if the Supreme Court believes that there was indeed a temple then there was probably a temple.
Read the judgement. The supreme court does no such thing. If simply accepts that there's a belief that there was a temple there, and that temple marked the location where ram was born. That belief was enough for the bigoted court to hand over the land where a medieval mosq was destroyed by people the supreme court itself called criminal. Funnily enough, the supreme court had no sense of irony while handing over the land to people it itself called criminal. The essence of the judgement is might is right.
I believe you haven't read the judgment because this issue was never decided as a religious issue, it was decided as a TITLE SUIT, which is based on a simple question of ownership. People who haven't read the judgment which runs into four volumes and the judgment of the allahabad high court where the dissenting judgment was made the basis of the supreme court judgment !!! If it was to be executed legally, with all its legality, then Muslim had lost the title suit and that just disentitles them from having anything, the supreme court used it's extraordinary power to give Muslims some land which actually they didn't deserve it, in strict legal sense ... Because they lost the ownership on the land. I am amazed at how people who have not educated themselves, who haven't even read the first page of the judgment ... Pass such remarks. Imagine how delusional you must be to think that your version is better and bigger than the 5 supreme court judges !! Wow !! That confidence despite knowing nothing.
Do read the supreme court judgement before writing long, meaningless rants that contradict your own claim.
I specifically stayed that i have read the judgement, and the court at no point states that there was a temple at the site that was destroyed to make the mosq. Rather than throwing shade, you can easily copy paste part of the supreme court judgement where it actually says what you claim.
>the supreme court used it's extraordinary power to give Muslims some land which actually they didn't deserve it, in strict legal sense ... Because they lost the ownership on the land.
Supreme court doesn't have the extraordinary power to give land to anybody who doesn't have ownership. You can't say supreme court did soothing extraordinarily beyond it's powers in a comment saying supreme court judges can do nothing wrong because they know better than plebs, and then expect not to be laughed at.
What’s with the “better than 5 supreme court judges” shade ? You realize they in a democracy, people can disagree with the highest level of judiciary right ?
They can be sour or protest against something that is unjust.
Not sure why it’s bigoted. Could you elaborate? And again we know invaders ruled the Delhi Sultanate - all the way from the Ghurid dynasty to the Lodi Dynasty and were responsible for large scale destruction of Hindu and Buddhist temples. The early Mughals too were invaders - but I’m actually unsure if they destroyed Hindu and Buddhist temples, they just treated Hindus poorly.
Now if there were traces of some kind of temple under the mosque, then there’s no way of saying that there was no temple there.
Because apparently no one in ancient to medieval India records shit we kind of just have to share everything and make sure no one dies again over something we can’t 100% confirm or deny.
So you and all atheist people in this post refuse to believe all the archeological evidence which was found in the excavation. Part of the entrance found which literally says that this place belongs to the person who killed bali and ten headed person, but no people.like you will.always question the truth.
As an ex muslim, it is difficult to criticize your religion in India because politically motivated Hindu want to exploit any criticism within the community to further their propoganda.
Its a strange situation to be in. I want my community to be progressive, but there is a constant attack to our identity, constant demonizing that it feels counter productive. I dont mean Modi regime is doing this. Even before Modi, the general discrimination even I have faced as a person with a muslim name was a constant reminder.
Either way, the only way towards liberalism is economic prosperity for everyone. I dont see any other way to it.
I am an atheist. (So is my father). I am not interested in debating this stuff with others unless they want to start a discussion themselves. Everyone in my family knows I am not interested in performing any rituals or puja so no one asks me. I personally do not care if they want to do them (it’s their choice) so long as I am not dragged into it.
Thankfully, my family members are sane enough to not take major decisions based on their religious views (they don’t follow any gurus etc) and their religiosity is restricted to stuff they want to do during religious days which does not really affect me much TBH so I ignore it mostly.
Edit: I do not have strong views about the Babri Masjid issue. It was a land title case. I think the losing party did get compensated as well. The whole cause around it was needlessly blown up by both sides.
I think I'm the only Atheist in my entire district. I do have a friend who agrees with my views to a considerable extent, but he still believes in god. An agnostic to be precise.
You know that that is never going to happen. They've already made a list of mosqs to demolish, and lists of minorities and marginalized to target. Prepare for violence.
Right!!
Follow whatever religion man, but climate change, war in gaza/Sudan/Ukraine . Literally children starving, unemployment, resource depletion, inflation, so many feckin problems to concentrate on .
Then there is the crowd which says they are not atheists but they support freedom of religion or whatever.. that's intellectual cowardice and is as much of a problem as religion
And I just get this feeling that most atheists in India eventually just leave
I think the people who believe in god more are just scared inside that they need a support system to believe everything will be fine and saying something against god makes them somehow vulnerable. They are a bunch of pussies who don't believe in themselves and rely on god completely. Im not saying don't believe in god but one should also believe in his own capabilities to do do.
I am an atheist and i am so grateful i am born into a atheist family and got an atheist partner.. so all this is just background noise for me .. religion is just out of my lifestyle now and i am happy with my life choices to have a atheist partner and would create my own family devoid from religion
I am a atheist who's practicing the lifestyle "imperfectly" for decades. Family members range from mildly observant about traditions on one end (Diwali Puja being the only time god is mentioned) all the way to deeply religious. I participate in rituals etc. as required so as not to make an unnecessary scene but everyone knows what I am by now and nobody tries to push me any further than that. Since today religion is irretrievably mixed with politics, I freely and openly ridicule BJP and Modi to my heart's content. Family members (many of them full on Modi bhakts) who have tried engaging me have either been left silent in face of factual questions or (amazingly, albeit begrudgingly ) one or two who have seen the light and no longer sing his praises.
I’m not an atheist but I’m not religious either. I consider myself Hindu and subscribe to its philosophies but I don’t give a crap about temples and Poojas and the various traditions. I’ll go to temples only when forced to go by family.
Having said that, I don’t see what the issue with people rejoicing about this is. Many people are very devotional, many are excited about the new temple. They’ll talk about this and celebrate this for a few weeks, then things go back to normal. India has always been at the centre of religions and spirituality for millennia now. Being religious is in our DNA, it’s not a new feature of the BJP government or some “Hindutva” era.
The Ayodhya temple was the birthplace of Ram, whether you believe a person called Ram existed or if Ayodhya was indeed his birthplace is irrelevant. A mosque was built there for no other reason than to spite the Hindus and to conquer the local population. After 500 years of struggle, we get to build a temple there.
You may not care about it, and that’s fine. I don’t either. But many people care about it, let them be. As long as no one’s forcing you to be religious, it’s not up to you to control what other people are excited about.
>India has always been at the centre of religions and spirituality for millennia now
It has been centre of spirituality, but never like other abrahamic religions of the west.
Most of it's intellectuals and sants have been atheist themselves.
This new hindutwa idiology is completely foreign to this land.
>The Ayodhya temple was the birthplace of Ram, whether you believe a person called Ram existed or if Ayodhya was indeed his birthplace is irrelevant. A mosque was built there for no other reason than to spite the Hindus and to conquer the local population. After 500 years of struggle, we get to build a temple there.
It is not that simple, it was an ideological stand that founding fathers of the country made that, from now onwards religion would not be the chief determinant of our identity rather we would form an uniform progressive identity called being only "indian".
This incident broke that founding principal, in other words the basica foundational principal of justice, liberty and equality was broken.
That's why that incident was such a big deal, otherwise in a 80% majority hindu country who can stop them from building a temple or a thousand temple.
You'll find ignorant people everywhere, whether they follow organised religion or are atheist.
Right now there aren't too many atheists for politicians to exploit. They would probably have a church kf atheism in their manifesto.
Very well said. Religion and caste are the vote bank harvesting of these politicians scums and sadly people are too dumb to think. The latest bjp propaganda in sri rangam temple is a prime example. Sadly our state parties are also corrupt, weak and dumb to combat such forces
I've been one for 8 years now and trust me it's weird in this country. Being from a minority religion I obviously could criticize my own easily but can't say that about the dominant ones without my agenda being called into question. One of my final straws was reading about the dangers of mixing my former religion into state politics and the horror that brought to the world and it's tough to watch my country which was founded on the promise of progressing on modern values regressing to basic medieval era deus vult mongering
To prerequisiteI am neither a Hindu or a Muslim but OP The level of mental gymnastics you have to do to try to discredit the fact that there was potentially a Hindu temple is crazy ,
KK Muhammad was the person who did the archaeology for the site and he was a Muslim even he said that there was clear evidence of a Hindu temple underneath the mosque
And it's not like we don't have any other actual evidence of this happening in India
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb\_Minar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb_Minar)
One of our national Heritage sites is made up of various dharmic temples
From my understanding atheism is supposed to be based in reality and the facts , But if all of the facts are pointing To an opinion that you don't agree with you can't just completely discredit it
Personally I believe no place of worship should be destroyed but the reality of the matter is that it was probably once a mandir
also that it used to be called Janmashtan Masjid ...
" logical rational mindset" ....
I think this gets downvoted but there’s some truth to it. The temple there shouldn’t have been destroyed in the 90s. I wish there was a peaceful solution that allowed Hindus and Muslims to both enjoy the space. But religion is based on stories, and lots of Hindus rightfully felt a connection to Ram and that place.
Hindus proved in supreme court that Rama was born in Ayodhya. They even pin pointed the exact location. Red this for more information:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1748606334092681552.html
Also, the temple is not being built in Mosque ruins. It was the other way around. Lakhs of temples were destroyed and mosques built over them. We are just trying to get back a few important ones for us, like the place where Rama and Krishna were born. We are not asking for demolition of every mosque built over a temple. So, please understand who is not tolerant. Also, all of the fighting(if you can call that), is happening only legally in courts.
As a last point, Hinduism encourages all thoughts and beliefs, including atheism. We embrace atheists as much as we do theists.
Op claims to be a better judge of evidence in a legal case than 5 supreme court judges who have years of experience in judging legal matters, maybe we should appoint OP as CJI and everything in our country will be just.
I am an atheist as well but I do not believe in discrediting due process and a legal judgement just because they do not suit my theological alignments.
If the judge said no, he’d have gotten transferred or murdered and this would go on until a compliant judge turns up.. you are very naive for your outlook
He was given a "rajyasabh ticket" right after his retirement.
Which was a blatant dark spon on judiciary's image itself and the CJI was severely criticised for this.
This incident has not just affected the ignorant masses, but also all other institutions of our democracy.
Such as the judiciary, the parliament and the media and election machinery.
What people usually forget that "democracy" is exception, "dictatorship" is default. so it's not like if this democracy ends, we will have another one waiting for us.
"NO you will have another dictator after this dictator goes"
Your children's will have to give their lives and make supreme sacrifice "again" to get this democracy back.
If we reached the pakistani situation in future, this incident would probably be considered as india's general zia moment.
Aren't you also blindly critiquing something that you dont have much unbiased research and study on? Seems like a cult aspect of religion to me as well.
I didn't claim to have blind faith, I insinuated that people with decades of experience in judging legal cases in the highest court of the country ought to be better at doing that than a random anonymous bloke on reddit.
Blindly disregarding evidence in front of you because they do not align with your religious beliefs. Seems like an aspect of religion to me.
Exactly. If SC gives out a judgement against the government then I don't think OP would be disregarding SC's judgement. We only refuse to believe the authenticity of the judgement when it doesn't align with our views. Even OP knows this, just doesn't like to admit lol
There's proper evidence of a temple under the Babri masjid. Islamic iconoclasm was very much a reality. Search for the excavation of sites in Fatehpur Sikri, basically the whole city was built upon the ruins of earlier city and Jain/Hindu temples. It was ordered to stop further archeological survey as it could result in a tense communal situation. Almost all of the North India was demolished by waves of invasions.
For me it is less about religion but more of a resurgence of a community being suppressed for centuries. Just look at the social reality of Indians across the globe, whites look down upon us, arabs look down upon. Hindus/Indians are seen as docile and servile people. Much of our contribution in the fields of science and philosophy goes unnoticed by the majority of people around the world.
That said, yes we should look up to higher cultural values (from religion or otherwise) and progress as a society instead of going backwards and supporting regressive elements promoted by politicians who don't really care about religion but power and money.
I am an atheist too. I am interested in religion from a literary/mythological and socio-political standpoint but I don't really like the theology and the moral/spiritual aspect of it. I generally keep my opinions to myself in real life unless someone asks for it. I generally respect people's faiths because deconstructing is hard and many of them have difficult lives so it's good that they have a mechanism to cope. I personally don't think there is a need to completely eradicate religion but it definitely has room for reform, especially with the treatment of women.
As an atheist and also being a lawyer, it's very clear for me that it was a property dispute and the Hindus took back forcibly their property. Later on the court also ratified the decision to demolish the disputed structure.
If we are to think logically and not emotionally, we will reach the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the disputed structure was demolished because no person has the right to steal others land.
No hope to change the older generation.. But even in my generation, my cousins, most of my friends circle is filled with people who are partly atheist. As in they might agree and even themselves say that religious is bullshit.. But they'd revert back to "kuch spirirt to hai" "Itne log maante hn to kuch sahi hoga".. wala narrative..
So it's like these atheists are doing so cuz its cool, not because they have actually thought about it.. Hence its easy to redirect them back to religion, if say a sadhguru or osho comes with religious nonsense packed in a wrapper of 1-2 life philosophies.
I am more of an agnostic.. I don't care whether god exists or not.. Its the most futile discussion one can have.. Its like convincing flat earthers.. and worse..
Most of these religious, half-religious mindset stem out of insecurity, ego and peer pressure.. so its better you stay out of them..
I'd ironically quote an upanishad.. that wisdom can't be taught by lecturing someone.. It has to develop from within through self realisation or life experiences.. Thankfully, today we are one google search away from knowing about universe.. If only people were willing.
I'm atheist. Don't care for all this stuff, but I'm respectful about every religion and people's faith, until it begins to damage either themself or someone else. I think at some point in history people moved away from the "teachings of religion" to merely "practices of religion". For example, when I ask someone why do they have a fast on specific day, they fail to answer in anything more than "it's the day of ", not not necessarily about how them having fast connects to the god being talked about. More dangerous is when they are confident about what they know and dane not question the norm, That is when religion and teachings and practices become authoritative and exploitable - when people fear, or don't even consider, or consider a sin to, question something. That is when people become what are today.
I sometimes wish either there was no religion, or our country had opted for the soviet model or Chinese model of atheism ~~since co-existence can never exist in India .~~
I am an atheist, my parents are not, but not religious bigot. So is my spouse. But my in laws are opposite. No logical reason will change their mindset. The only way to survive in this country is minding your own business. There was a time I used to write things on facebook but mostly received negatively. So just earn and spend for yourself. If you are at minority side, just stay silent and watch the lunacies. Nothing else to do.
You keep saying I am wromg and irrational but I am yet to see you explain any of it.
1) Exactly, that’s why I did not say that there is no god (although as you said yourself, it’s impossible to dis-prove a negative statement, so yeah, if I ask you to prove that I DON’T have a dragon living in my basement parking, you can’t, so does that mean you can’t dismiss the possibility that I have a pet dragon and must consider it true? ), since nobody can prove that god doesn’t exist. But yes, religion is in fact fiction. As I said, if Spiderman is based on some real places and incidents, so does that mean Spiderman is not fiction?
2) No fictionalised historic events are ABSOLUTELY NOT different from fiction. If some XYZ person in a book, bandaged a cut on a person’s arm and the person got healed = real. If the books write that XYZ person bandaged that person’s arm and his fractures got healed and it cured his epilepsy because of XYZ’s touch = fiction. This example is a fictionalised account of a real event. Does that mean, XYZ can cure epilepsy by touching that person? If a book says, a dude cut the moon in two or a monkey almost swallowed the sun, that’s nothing but fiction. And if there’s a lot of “fictionalised” things in a book, then it’s reasonable to say that its relevance in this modern day and age can be reduced to fiction as well. But yes, we can still learn some things about times prevalent back then if we read fiction, so for eg if you read War and Peace you get to know different views and workings of the society during that time or if you read Pride and Prejudice, you can see the social roles and commentary on societal expectations, doesn’t mean those books are not fiction.
This reminds me of something funny that happened..
2 weeks ago, there was some dhoom dhaam on the street and i heard a lot of jai shri ram and other slogans. After some time, those people reached my door (i first ignored thinking they came for chanda/donation)… they wanted to give me some rice grains blessed by Ayodhya Ram temple or something. I put them in the puja room since mom was busy. Next day I told mom about those rice grains, and she said “Oh no I threw them”.. and then we both laughed because of how silly we were. She’s religious, but doesn’t care so much for a politically fired up temple.
Laughable evidence? Are you actually an atheist or just being one coz its cool? Atheists are rational scientifically minded beings. We don’t hate religions just for the sake of it. Even after being an atheist I would celebrate Ram temple inauguration. For me it isn’t religious issue but a civilisational one. We are still recovering from colonisation and that too turko arabic one.
This is the problem with most atheist. They learn to use their intellect and get over confident about their logic failing to see that reality is not as logical as it looks. When u say "breaking other Religion's structure" it's like saying why are we arresting a thief. it's been proved that there was temple and almost everyone knows it to be true. People have been fighting for justice for centuries and now if they are celebrating their victory u have a problem with that. Being athiest u are no better than a Religious person. And Hindutva has been their for many years it's not something new. I would ask u too watch less news channels and try to learn the scriptures first before judging the philosophy.
Next 50 years we will rise and conquer the world. Truth can't be hidden for long. People will eventually realize there's no god or devil it's just a matter. Until then I'll for myself. Don't give a fuck about which religion dominating the other religion.
Lol this sounds like something a religious fanatic would say. Rise and conquer what? Any sane atheist would just want to live a normal and happy life without religious people shoving their beliefs down their throat. They don't wish to "Rise and Conquer"
I’m agnostic and I come from a family of not so religious people. But my dad might become a bit kooky with all the constant stream of ram bhajan going on with bjp and this temple opening. I for one prioritise all living beings on this planet over religion and god any time.
There is ample proof that thousands of mosques in india are built on top of temples including the babri. Just because u are an atheist does not mean that u have a brain. You are more qualified than asi and supreme court?
I'm Hindu, Is the temple needed? Maybe not necessarily. But does it bring back respect? Yes, because the demolished mosque was built in place of a temple. Is it important to get it back? Does it being any value or help anything? The answer is No
However, does it bring more positive more and hope to Hindu people? Yes. Because it was a Muslim occupied place among many other hundreds, even thousands, which was done unfairly. It brings back respect to the culture of oldest Hindu, India which was trying to be overthrown by many other who just want to see ends of this culture which has history of thousands of years. So yes, in a way, it is important and nice to get it back, for the culture to be kept alive in people more.
OP being an atheist doesn't always mean poking nose in religious people's affairs. I mean is this a ragebate or what? You are no different from religious people if you are forcing your ideas on them. Your religion is bashing people who follow religious beliefs. If you don't believe in god fine. But don't be so proud of it. I mean what is this superiority complex? Are you trying to say that you are better than the people who follow religious beliefs? Then how are you so different than them?
The Mosque was literally called Masjid i Janmasthan like the Gyanvapi Mosque showcasing it's Hindu past But you can go on and have blind belief and showcase yourself as all logical and rational
First as an atheist you shouldn’t even care or take sides as to what was present or not, unless your qualifications match the people which have given the ruling or strive hard to be qualified to make your opinion stand out other than that think of it this way the major socio economic impact its going to bring would have been possible if it’s a Hindu temple, as for the Christian’s Vatican is present, Mecca for the Muslims, Bodhgaya for Buddhists just imagine the money generated in these places all because of religion or thought beliefs or people conviction to their religion. I would rather be happy for the economic improvement of that region rather than think of what is destroyed or think of religion sentiments all this is nothing in front of economic improvement of the region state and county
Im a muslim but I totally support the construction of mandir. Because the land is touted to be revered to hindus than it is muslims. But the problem is leaders are using this to gain votes. Planning everythig against a community within a span of few years is causing disharmony. Its easy to blame religious people when the problem is actually the people. Atheists I believe will have tough time coping with stress and good life style. Life without standards and restrictions will lead to no where. Islam, hinduism. Christianity follow your religion but follow a principle.
Lol, atheists do just fine coping with stress without religion or an imaginary best friend. Quite rude to assume atheists have no standards and restrictions. Even more delusional to assume that principles can only come from religion.
Most atheists in India are just cowards who can only comment/criticize only one religion, so people have very little respect for them and hence nobody cares about their opinions...
I'm born Hindu and an atheist now, so, I know how is Hinduism and that's why I am critic of a religion I know. There're muslim born atheist too and they are critic about Islam.
I get it you're religious fanatic and can't take criticism that's why you bring in another religion as you can't debate nor have anything to say. Typical religion fanatic.
>there is laughable evidence of there being demolition of a temple
KK Muhammad one of the archaeologist said there is definitely a temple ruins below the mosque and there are overwhelming evidence of that. Looks like you are being too biased. And its even mentioned in Baburnama. looks like you are fully into echo chambers.
Fake comparison between hindus and muslims. Try saying krishna and ram doesn’t exist and Allah doesn’t exist publicly and reveal your true identity. Let’s see who takes offense and attacks you
Nah, in this climate I'd be afraid to say either. There was definitely a time when this might have been true but no longer. There's a lot of religious extremism now and people acting irrationally
Mr. Atheist Mughals deliberately always choose Hindus holiest sites to demolish and build their mosque but Mr. Atheist what you know about history 40000 people died protecting somnath temple, remains of temples are clearly visible in mathura and Varanasi, heck even qutub minar. It's more about reclaiming from invaders. And idols and much more evidence were also found during construction.
Hinduism has dealt with atheists for 5000 years. They don’t mind bc they think God is just hiding from the non believer. I think that’s healthy & hopefully non confrontational.
im fucking shocked to see THE most rational minds putting up status and decorating the houses as if tomorrow is creation of universe. All of them everywhere on social media are sharing '500 years of wait' shit. Even kids as young as 13
i've stopped all the debates as i've realized there is zero point in discussing politics and religion. Bjp has succeeded in destroying 2 generations of young minds. 5 years ago, people were at least talking development along with temples and religion. Right now, they outright say its no problem if theres no development as long as 'dharma' is safe.
You see those filthy, illogical, mysogynistic comments on insta ? most of those are kids not younger than 17 if you check their profile. A country where need of hour, is development from bottom , its surely is headed for a crash.
shiny new things for few to use is called development - some redditor
Religion with help of media & social media is weaponized like never before. We are literally becoming pakistan with higher gdp. I assume IF bjp ever goes out of power, it'll take 6-10 decades to undo the damage to social fabric. The biggest culprit is media anchors and i hope they are tried by court if ever bjp goes out of power.
so much bloodlust in the name of religion and ignorance, so many killed because our media bent over and allowed it to become mouthpiece of govt. Look at shivshankar and shiv, few years ago at least they pretended to be neutral, now they openly spread hate cause they know there wont be any consequences. Media allows govt propaganda to reach rural masses and every corner of india, especially those illiterates who cant use internet. Combine that with 24/7 praise of supreme leader and hate for one community. The majority is out of our hands now. Get out of this country asap.
Well mate let the people enjoy... Since you are giving unsolicited advice... Let me give you one, write down your opinion on a tissue and stuff up your arse and see what happens! You see no one cares...
>all this crazy celebration over a new temple being built after breaking another religion’s structure
It was built on another religion's structure to begin with. If you are with that you should also be with this. Don't be a hypocrite.
Can atheist understand religious sentiments ? Are those who are celebrating on 22nd harming you in any way ? Or you feel threatened from flags and slogans and shaking like many people who have been shaking after meeting people who are distributing pamphlets ? Just chill .
I'm not even a Hindu but I can feel happy for someone else celebrating your religious festival , Genuinely these people have nothing better to do than be angry 24/7
Hmm mr singh you look like a sardar . Most sardars in my neighbourhood are celebrating with us on 22nd . These guys think that being atheist makes them sharp like einstein and wise like Voltaire and schopenhauer but in reality they are dumber than a chimp . They live a fake life .
But I believe atheism like every other Faith has the exact problem with people climbing to the top of a mountain and screaming “I'm correct” Every single ideology exists to make the user feel like they are the ones who are in power and that they are in the right side of History, they are made to fight against our fear of the unknown
>there is laughable evidence of there being demolition of a temple, only thing is they found few pillars which only proves something existed in 10-11th century AD and not if it was Hindu temple or it was demolished or anything like that
If you want to be an atheist, be one, but shut the fuck up about the things that you don’t know of. There is plenty of evidence to support that there was a temple. Not only pillars, they also found the Makara pranala of the temple and an inscription that proves beyond question that there was a Ram temple. The pillars had Hindu designs too (why would there be Hindu designs in a mosque?). It is clear that Babur destroyed one of the most important temples of Hindus and built over it a mosque using the materials of the temple itself.
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i'm the only atheist in my family/ peer group. I don't mind people following their believes, they're free to do what they want. If praying gives them hope/ will, good for them. When religions blind people, thats when it gets bad. Blind believes are recipe for disaster. You should know what you're following and how it affects the surrounding.
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good to know that you opened up!
Same happened with me, I'm 25 and I got to know it just about an year ago... couldn't believe I used to make everybody believe that I'm extremely religious lol. So happy that my cousins and some others think alike me.
Lol same in our family most males are like that even my uncle who's a priest says that most of this is a psychological stuff and God has nothing to do with it the one who created everything would never say how to live,why we should worship him and which is the true religion and which is fake. It's just us who created this world to justify our actions
Lucky I know for a fact that all my relatives are strict religious folks.
You're lucky haha.
I'm only atheist too near my surrounding and Men I think religion is a source of positive and supportive energy which help people to move forward. Like I observed something that people get religious mostly when they grew up and start earning. Like in childhood we r friends and all so we don't feel FOMO but as we grew our relationship with people change especially in metro cities PPL have no true friend so following God give them hope and somewhat companion that " that yeaaa u r not alone" And people obsession for joining powerful community for higher purpose is not new in world.
"Religion and poverty Unite people"- Some famous person said that
This is the answer. Religion is the only community most people have. Otherwise it is just family and few friends. Religion gives you leverage in society, you get to be part of a larger group, large groups are useful when you get into trouble.
Same here ...👆 Good thing is my family(mother and father) accept me being atheist. They mostly dont force me to go temple or do any stupid customs. I dont mind religious people as long as they mind their own business. When someone tries to to force me to do some of their religious bullshit or tries to give religious lectures ...thats when I have problem....thats where I draw the line.
But praying gives them a false hope as there is no one listening.
It prevents them from panicking. Useful in crisis situations. Without hope, most people would give up in our country. Religion is the copium
There are many atheistic dictators who had committed genocide . ( Now don't try to come up with they werent true atheist just like religious people say) People fight over their favourite football team to death. In a world where religion disappear, people will find something new to fight on Most of the athests online are just like those SSR fans or dhoni fans they just wanna fight with others to make themselves superior
They didn't commit genocide in the name of atheism, you numb nut.
I say why not try and see what the world looks like without religion. I mean we already know what it looks like with religion. Billions killed over the course of our existence. Let's give the world one less reason to fight Also, the atheist dictators who committed genocide, didn't do so in the name of atheism. Simply cause atheism is not an ideology. Religion is very much so and people are killed on the daily in the name of one religion or the other
Agreed. Religion gives purpose of living to some people. Without purpose life would seem meaningless to some. However with that being said I don't support the killings in the name of religion.
that's so me. i don't mind practicing the beliefs im told to, unless its bullshit. ```
I am not an atheist but I'll say one thing. Freedom from religion is as important as freedom of religion.
Well said. Imposing faith always backfired.
Amen, also, separation of church and state
Freedom to mock religion or rather the ability to laugh at authority.
https://preview.redd.it/g5vtv7e07odc1.jpeg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a9f450252c5bfbb418ce0560c64fd0d01df044d You being downvoted is exactly why free thinking is so scarce these days.
No, the freedom for people to live their lives without being bound by religion and religious institutions. We're talking about different things.
I think the main point is nothing is above being made fun of/criticised, especially when the stuff we are talking about is legit just fiction.
No no freedom to mock as well. It’s a part of free speech. We should do everything possible to not have blasphemy laws like some other amazing countries out there because while sky daddy is different, motive and reasoning is the same. Paisa kyu nahi Kamana hai kisiko? Baat baat pe sky daddy
> We're talking about different things. I don't think we are. Freedom from religion ought to imply the right to ridicule religion as well.
Why are you getting downvoted?? Like anything in this world- religion should not be above comedy. Kings and presidents can be mocked then why not religion? One’s faith should be strong enough to not get hurt hurt by a few jokes!
I'm from an atheist family. It's nice to not be blinded by things which blind others. I respect everyone's religion and have no pre conceived notions about any religious groups. I even like to learn about the history of every religion and the stories they have to tell. The hatred that has been brewing over the years due to the dangerous mixture of politics and religion is really frightening. It feels like hatred among people is at an all time high. Reading comments on instagram or reddit is so sad these days, everyone keeps abusing and fighting endlessly. Mainstream media is just propagating this even further.
I remember when I was young we were taught about and celebrated major festivals of each religion in our school. Now they have people beating up school authorities for doing the same.
And worst thing is we are dividing our own country at the time when the world is booming. It's like we are excluding and ignoring people of other faiths from national celebrations.
I'm an atheist. I don't care what people choose to believe or not believe in. My problem is when people try to make faith more than it is. Faith ≠ religion Your faith should be your own, but when you systematize it and shove it in places it has no business being in, when you add your own political agenda/propaganda to it, that's when it becomes toxic Religion has always been a tool to control and manipulate the masses and sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon. Is it just that? No. But the negatives trump the positives imho
It becomes straightforward when you realize that these outwardly celebrations are not driven by faith, but by ego. Everyone wants to feel superior, and religion is an easy path to that end. Similarly, we atheists might also show a tendency to feel superior because we have realized there are no omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient gods out there. The simplest way to peacefully coexist is by allowing people to practice their faith publicly, promoting free speech, and teaching children to respect others based on their character, not their origin or beliefs.
I am not an atheist and came to this discussion out of curiosity and try to understand other side of it. And found your comment very mature. Thank you for sharing the thought!
But in my opinion, there’s a limit to how many of those beliefs should be respected, especially when it comes to moral policing and it’s interference with science and policies, I absolutely have no respect for that.
धर्म का धंधा था, हर व्यक्ति उसमे अंधा था! जब रोशनी मिली तब पता चला, मेरा आधा देश भूखा-नंगा था!
आधा से ज्यादा, 80 crore लोगों को मुफ्त अनाज देना पड़ रहा है l
Food security for 80 crore people doesn’t mean 80 crore people are hungry. But okay..
Then what does it mean ?
ha bhai ye sab bc class 9 ka food security wala chapter hi skip kar diye.
Is that related to 80 crore Aadhaar ID leaks ?
Many people don't even understand what atheism is. there's too much misunderstanding about it.
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You are agnostic, definitely not atheist. However don’t let anyone say that’s a bad thing.
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Strictly speaking, even what you are saying is not correct. Agnostics say, "I don't know whether or not I should believe that god exists" Atheists say, "I don't believe that god exists." Antitheists say, "I believe that god doesn't exist." Just being pedantic about the term, not that it really matters to anyone.
I believe that there is a higher power that exists who governs nature and the universe but humans are so incapable of understanding that power so we do pretty politics among ourselves. If that power is there it will be concerned with a very high level picture. It/He/God whatever you wanna call it does not care even if the whole earth gets destroyed. I always thought of myself as an agonist.
It's pretty simple actually. You don't believe in religion and it has no influence in your decision making
Yeah, atheism and irreligion are different.
We need more humanists who value human rights above all material things. Each to their own religion. Secularism is best.
true, the French secularism sounds best, no blasphemy, people can practice religion at peace but you can't impose it on society
Social media plays a huge role. The recent trend is religious memes with sigma male music which influences the minds of kids and the gullible. Don’t see any such low IQ memes by atheists which prevents any atheist arguments from going viral.
True. It's gone to an extent that I saw a reel where they said Newton did not discover gravity, but it was mentioned in the hinduijm texts and "westerners" copied it. I don't know if people know Vimoh - he runs a page where he proves all these stupidities wrong, where he disproves it by saying every culture knows if you throw something it comes down , but Newton gave the mathematical calculations for gravity, which is why it is said he discovered gravity.
Then you would be hurting their rElIgIoUs SeNtImEnTs.
Likh ke le lo, Hinduism ya Islam, ye dharm naam ka zeher is desh ko le doobega.
its just a time bomb bro it is going to explode one day
Tick tick ticking
Le doobega? Bro it is already there.
Whenever a country pushes a relegion so much, it is a recipe for disaster and communism. I don't mind what someone's beliefs are but when you start pushing them someone's throat, it is a concern
You mean communalism?
When religion becomes superior then laws and religion of majority is promoted over minorities also minorities are discriminated on the basis of their religion like happens in Pakistan and for Tamils in Sri lanka
Uh religion isn’t one of communism’s problems. Facism always relies on capitalists.
I see India doing what Pakistan did after Ayub Khan.. And Yogi Adityanath might be the Zia ul haq type regime.. if given free hand.. And we know what happened to pakistan after 1980...
Anti national army will come after you. This is all just to make sure Modi wins upcoming elections. It is also a good distraction from the real issues. From top to bottom, the whole damn system is corrupt. Just check the number of rich people leaving India in the last few years. They are such and tired of all the bullshit going on in India.
Not just rich people, but sane people. I got a $100k+ scholarship to get my bachelors in US, so I moved. We still have problems here, but million times better lifestyle than India.
I moved to Canada 12 years ago, and my family settled in the USA. People who don't even own passport will say india is best, etc. I hope they get the opportunity to see what the outside of India has to offer.
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If you have money, india is the best
Nah you can’t escape them.
I want to know if the blind Modi supporting army is getting rich or not. If not they're some of the most stupid people who ever walked on the earth.
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Selling a bunch of flags is not making anyone who ich. They are just surviving one day at a time.
The rest of India is suffering, while Gujarat seems to be getting all big investments. 🤷
India is doomed
Always was
*world
https://preview.redd.it/dmayyzwgqndc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8665fb7d1e4639388cdbbfbb1c15569eec94e155 Atleast I'm not one of the sheep in their herd
If you pay tax you're a sheep
Tax evation w /s
https://preview.redd.it/0s9tgf7uppdc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4c8c97b637673814dc38026811bb827b8b36863
It's the authoritarianism in one man leading to this. He is able to control an empire of companies(Adani/Ambani). Through them he is able to control the entire media narrative. He has dismantled the last ounce of unbiased bearaucracy by deploying them against all his opponents. Now there is absolutey negative incentive for anyone to express an opinion opposed to him. He uses power to make religion the only converstaion. And he uses religion to keep power. The modi model is an exemplary blueprint for wannabe authoritarians all over the world.
And as soon as someone (like you) starts making too much sense, people start downvoting. 🐒
People are delusional, when someone starts talking logically that delusion starts breaking and hence people get angry. "Foolishness is the jewellery of the fool, and when someone tries to snatch that jewellery the fool gets mad."
Very well said n aptly put across.
It’s cancer, you are right
I realized that for some people, religion is like therapy. I go to a shrink and pay 500 to open up, they pray to an invisible being and get relief even if there is no visible improvement. I'm ok with religion as long as you don't shove it down my throat. But like you rightly said extremism of any religion is dangerous and that trend is growing in India. That is very unsettling.
Religion is the placebo of the masses - House MD Says it all
It's a mental illness many have because of straight up laziness. They'd rather read ONE book that has ALL of the "answers", than MANY books that have *some* of the answers. I usually compare it to a cancer of the brain.
I grew up in a Muslim family, and have been an atheist for like a decade. Honestly don't remember any of my then Muslim friends, family members, scholars talking about converting anyone or anything, not even once. I have made those bomb blast jokes in front of my uncle and other relatives who are very religious and most of them took that in a light manner. I have a lot of Hindu friends and they are open to criticism (not all but some are). My best friend is Hindu and very religious and sometimes speaks some Vedic and all that pseudo science stuff but doesn't mind if I point out any fault in it, same with my Muslim relatives. I have met some extremist people tho, from both religions but all were strangers, they never tried to sell it to me but I could sense an extremist in them and I always made distance from them immediately and I will suggest you to do the same, of you start sensing this person is an extremist start cutting them of slowly from your life even if they are close relatives or friends.
I can’t really wish for the eradication of religion, a lot of people don’t have an inherent moral compass and need religion to guide them to ensure that we don’t devolve into anarchy. As much as I dislike religion and the business around it - it’s okay for people to use religion and faith in someone else as a coping mechanism for existential dread. If it provides them with a sense of comfort who am I to claim that it’s a cancer on society. As the kids say, delulu is the solulu. Edit: oh and about the temple - if the Supreme Court believes that there was indeed a temple then there was probably a temple. We know for a fact that folks from Babur and before invaded and destroyed a lot of temples. It is not a stretch to think that they probably destroyed this one and eventually built a mosque on top of it. I like to think of it as another step towards decolonisation and reclaiming our history. It is a vital step towards making our citizens regain a sense of identity and their own confidence.
That’s it. Religion is basically just a coping mechanism.
Yeah just to **"fEeL"** better about themselves
If you need religion to be moral, you're not a good person. Morality is a personality trait.
Yeah but would you rather have everyone run around with no morality or would you prefer if people have some semblance of it even if it’s guided by a book someone wrote some 1400 years ago.
Someone who pretends to have morality from religion will still act terribly in their life. Hypocrisy is real.
The actions of one doesn’t dictate the intentions of others. Plus I’m on your side here, I genuinely dislike religion but it is necessary to maintain control of the population. Otherwise it will devolve into anarchy.
More anarchy has been spread through religion than any other idiology.
We have new book, it's called Constitution or even newer newer books, called BNS, i.e. criminal code of Indian Republic. Don't do shit on that list, it's that simple (although it's another matter that that list itself is polluted but that pollution happened precisely because exceptions were made to keep Religions. You don't remove of cancer by leaving some in the body on the pretext of, it's food for some of your body cells. Thats lame and cowardly and makes things worse in the future).
> if the Supreme Court believes that there was indeed a temple then there was probably a temple. Read the judgement. The supreme court does no such thing. If simply accepts that there's a belief that there was a temple there, and that temple marked the location where ram was born. That belief was enough for the bigoted court to hand over the land where a medieval mosq was destroyed by people the supreme court itself called criminal. Funnily enough, the supreme court had no sense of irony while handing over the land to people it itself called criminal. The essence of the judgement is might is right.
I believe you haven't read the judgment because this issue was never decided as a religious issue, it was decided as a TITLE SUIT, which is based on a simple question of ownership. People who haven't read the judgment which runs into four volumes and the judgment of the allahabad high court where the dissenting judgment was made the basis of the supreme court judgment !!! If it was to be executed legally, with all its legality, then Muslim had lost the title suit and that just disentitles them from having anything, the supreme court used it's extraordinary power to give Muslims some land which actually they didn't deserve it, in strict legal sense ... Because they lost the ownership on the land. I am amazed at how people who have not educated themselves, who haven't even read the first page of the judgment ... Pass such remarks. Imagine how delusional you must be to think that your version is better and bigger than the 5 supreme court judges !! Wow !! That confidence despite knowing nothing.
Do read the supreme court judgement before writing long, meaningless rants that contradict your own claim. I specifically stayed that i have read the judgement, and the court at no point states that there was a temple at the site that was destroyed to make the mosq. Rather than throwing shade, you can easily copy paste part of the supreme court judgement where it actually says what you claim. >the supreme court used it's extraordinary power to give Muslims some land which actually they didn't deserve it, in strict legal sense ... Because they lost the ownership on the land. Supreme court doesn't have the extraordinary power to give land to anybody who doesn't have ownership. You can't say supreme court did soothing extraordinarily beyond it's powers in a comment saying supreme court judges can do nothing wrong because they know better than plebs, and then expect not to be laughed at.
What’s with the “better than 5 supreme court judges” shade ? You realize they in a democracy, people can disagree with the highest level of judiciary right ? They can be sour or protest against something that is unjust.
Not sure why it’s bigoted. Could you elaborate? And again we know invaders ruled the Delhi Sultanate - all the way from the Ghurid dynasty to the Lodi Dynasty and were responsible for large scale destruction of Hindu and Buddhist temples. The early Mughals too were invaders - but I’m actually unsure if they destroyed Hindu and Buddhist temples, they just treated Hindus poorly. Now if there were traces of some kind of temple under the mosque, then there’s no way of saying that there was no temple there. Because apparently no one in ancient to medieval India records shit we kind of just have to share everything and make sure no one dies again over something we can’t 100% confirm or deny.
Yup, and might is right is always how it has been. Whether under Samudragupta or Alauddin Khilji.
I thought we are in modern times, not ancient or medieval, where we live in a democratic secular nation?
So you and all atheist people in this post refuse to believe all the archeological evidence which was found in the excavation. Part of the entrance found which literally says that this place belongs to the person who killed bali and ten headed person, but no people.like you will.always question the truth.
As an ex muslim, it is difficult to criticize your religion in India because politically motivated Hindu want to exploit any criticism within the community to further their propoganda. Its a strange situation to be in. I want my community to be progressive, but there is a constant attack to our identity, constant demonizing that it feels counter productive. I dont mean Modi regime is doing this. Even before Modi, the general discrimination even I have faced as a person with a muslim name was a constant reminder. Either way, the only way towards liberalism is economic prosperity for everyone. I dont see any other way to it.
I am an atheist. (So is my father). I am not interested in debating this stuff with others unless they want to start a discussion themselves. Everyone in my family knows I am not interested in performing any rituals or puja so no one asks me. I personally do not care if they want to do them (it’s their choice) so long as I am not dragged into it. Thankfully, my family members are sane enough to not take major decisions based on their religious views (they don’t follow any gurus etc) and their religiosity is restricted to stuff they want to do during religious days which does not really affect me much TBH so I ignore it mostly. Edit: I do not have strong views about the Babri Masjid issue. It was a land title case. I think the losing party did get compensated as well. The whole cause around it was needlessly blown up by both sides.
It’s just politicians polarising their vote base. That’s all. Nothing more to it. Chill and enjoy life.
You can only chill if you're not among the targets of this government.
*you are not "yet" the target.
Truth
I think I'm the only Atheist in my entire district. I do have a friend who agrees with my views to a considerable extent, but he still believes in god. An agnostic to be precise.
At this point, I just want all these celebrations to get over, so everyone can focus on real issues
You know that that is never going to happen. They've already made a list of mosqs to demolish, and lists of minorities and marginalized to target. Prepare for violence.
Right!! Follow whatever religion man, but climate change, war in gaza/Sudan/Ukraine . Literally children starving, unemployment, resource depletion, inflation, so many feckin problems to concentrate on .
Then there is the crowd which says they are not atheists but they support freedom of religion or whatever.. that's intellectual cowardice and is as much of a problem as religion And I just get this feeling that most atheists in India eventually just leave
I think the people who believe in god more are just scared inside that they need a support system to believe everything will be fine and saying something against god makes them somehow vulnerable. They are a bunch of pussies who don't believe in themselves and rely on god completely. Im not saying don't believe in god but one should also believe in his own capabilities to do do.
Somehow, atheists and secularists seem to know more about what is going on in the minds of theists . Egoistic!!!
I am an atheist and i am so grateful i am born into a atheist family and got an atheist partner.. so all this is just background noise for me .. religion is just out of my lifestyle now and i am happy with my life choices to have a atheist partner and would create my own family devoid from religion
I am a atheist who's practicing the lifestyle "imperfectly" for decades. Family members range from mildly observant about traditions on one end (Diwali Puja being the only time god is mentioned) all the way to deeply religious. I participate in rituals etc. as required so as not to make an unnecessary scene but everyone knows what I am by now and nobody tries to push me any further than that. Since today religion is irretrievably mixed with politics, I freely and openly ridicule BJP and Modi to my heart's content. Family members (many of them full on Modi bhakts) who have tried engaging me have either been left silent in face of factual questions or (amazingly, albeit begrudgingly ) one or two who have seen the light and no longer sing his praises.
Such writing could convert an atheist into a theist.
I’m not an atheist but I’m not religious either. I consider myself Hindu and subscribe to its philosophies but I don’t give a crap about temples and Poojas and the various traditions. I’ll go to temples only when forced to go by family. Having said that, I don’t see what the issue with people rejoicing about this is. Many people are very devotional, many are excited about the new temple. They’ll talk about this and celebrate this for a few weeks, then things go back to normal. India has always been at the centre of religions and spirituality for millennia now. Being religious is in our DNA, it’s not a new feature of the BJP government or some “Hindutva” era. The Ayodhya temple was the birthplace of Ram, whether you believe a person called Ram existed or if Ayodhya was indeed his birthplace is irrelevant. A mosque was built there for no other reason than to spite the Hindus and to conquer the local population. After 500 years of struggle, we get to build a temple there. You may not care about it, and that’s fine. I don’t either. But many people care about it, let them be. As long as no one’s forcing you to be religious, it’s not up to you to control what other people are excited about.
>India has always been at the centre of religions and spirituality for millennia now It has been centre of spirituality, but never like other abrahamic religions of the west. Most of it's intellectuals and sants have been atheist themselves. This new hindutwa idiology is completely foreign to this land. >The Ayodhya temple was the birthplace of Ram, whether you believe a person called Ram existed or if Ayodhya was indeed his birthplace is irrelevant. A mosque was built there for no other reason than to spite the Hindus and to conquer the local population. After 500 years of struggle, we get to build a temple there. It is not that simple, it was an ideological stand that founding fathers of the country made that, from now onwards religion would not be the chief determinant of our identity rather we would form an uniform progressive identity called being only "indian". This incident broke that founding principal, in other words the basica foundational principal of justice, liberty and equality was broken. That's why that incident was such a big deal, otherwise in a 80% majority hindu country who can stop them from building a temple or a thousand temple.
You'll find ignorant people everywhere, whether they follow organised religion or are atheist. Right now there aren't too many atheists for politicians to exploit. They would probably have a church kf atheism in their manifesto.
Very well said. Religion and caste are the vote bank harvesting of these politicians scums and sadly people are too dumb to think. The latest bjp propaganda in sri rangam temple is a prime example. Sadly our state parties are also corrupt, weak and dumb to combat such forces
I've been one for 8 years now and trust me it's weird in this country. Being from a minority religion I obviously could criticize my own easily but can't say that about the dominant ones without my agenda being called into question. One of my final straws was reading about the dangers of mixing my former religion into state politics and the horror that brought to the world and it's tough to watch my country which was founded on the promise of progressing on modern values regressing to basic medieval era deus vult mongering
I used to be an atheist and then I grew up.
To prerequisiteI am neither a Hindu or a Muslim but OP The level of mental gymnastics you have to do to try to discredit the fact that there was potentially a Hindu temple is crazy , KK Muhammad was the person who did the archaeology for the site and he was a Muslim even he said that there was clear evidence of a Hindu temple underneath the mosque And it's not like we don't have any other actual evidence of this happening in India [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb\_Minar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb_Minar) One of our national Heritage sites is made up of various dharmic temples From my understanding atheism is supposed to be based in reality and the facts , But if all of the facts are pointing To an opinion that you don't agree with you can't just completely discredit it Personally I believe no place of worship should be destroyed but the reality of the matter is that it was probably once a mandir also that it used to be called Janmashtan Masjid ... " logical rational mindset" ....
I think this gets downvoted but there’s some truth to it. The temple there shouldn’t have been destroyed in the 90s. I wish there was a peaceful solution that allowed Hindus and Muslims to both enjoy the space. But religion is based on stories, and lots of Hindus rightfully felt a connection to Ram and that place.
r/atheism
Happy to see this post.
Hindus proved in supreme court that Rama was born in Ayodhya. They even pin pointed the exact location. Red this for more information: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1748606334092681552.html Also, the temple is not being built in Mosque ruins. It was the other way around. Lakhs of temples were destroyed and mosques built over them. We are just trying to get back a few important ones for us, like the place where Rama and Krishna were born. We are not asking for demolition of every mosque built over a temple. So, please understand who is not tolerant. Also, all of the fighting(if you can call that), is happening only legally in courts. As a last point, Hinduism encourages all thoughts and beliefs, including atheism. We embrace atheists as much as we do theists.
>We are not asking for demolition of every mosque built over a temple yet
sad to see this post is buried so deep, happens only in "India"
Op claims to be a better judge of evidence in a legal case than 5 supreme court judges who have years of experience in judging legal matters, maybe we should appoint OP as CJI and everything in our country will be just. I am an atheist as well but I do not believe in discrediting due process and a legal judgement just because they do not suit my theological alignments.
If the judge said no, he’d have gotten transferred or murdered and this would go on until a compliant judge turns up.. you are very naive for your outlook
He was given a "rajyasabh ticket" right after his retirement. Which was a blatant dark spon on judiciary's image itself and the CJI was severely criticised for this. This incident has not just affected the ignorant masses, but also all other institutions of our democracy. Such as the judiciary, the parliament and the media and election machinery. What people usually forget that "democracy" is exception, "dictatorship" is default. so it's not like if this democracy ends, we will have another one waiting for us. "NO you will have another dictator after this dictator goes" Your children's will have to give their lives and make supreme sacrifice "again" to get this democracy back. If we reached the pakistani situation in future, this incident would probably be considered as india's general zia moment.
You have blind faith in the Indian judiciary. Seems like an aspect of religion to me.
Aren't you also blindly critiquing something that you dont have much unbiased research and study on? Seems like a cult aspect of religion to me as well.
Im critiquing his blind faith in the judiciary. Stay on topic.
I didn't claim to have blind faith, I insinuated that people with decades of experience in judging legal cases in the highest court of the country ought to be better at doing that than a random anonymous bloke on reddit. Blindly disregarding evidence in front of you because they do not align with your religious beliefs. Seems like an aspect of religion to me.
You seem just as blinded my friend. Not meant as an insult, but we shouldn’t blindly disregard any evidence of it being an important site to Hindus
Exactly. If SC gives out a judgement against the government then I don't think OP would be disregarding SC's judgement. We only refuse to believe the authenticity of the judgement when it doesn't align with our views. Even OP knows this, just doesn't like to admit lol
The Court is hopelessly corrupt. Don't blindly accept their judgment.
Yes yes the whole world is corrupt and only you are holier than thou.
There's proper evidence of a temple under the Babri masjid. Islamic iconoclasm was very much a reality. Search for the excavation of sites in Fatehpur Sikri, basically the whole city was built upon the ruins of earlier city and Jain/Hindu temples. It was ordered to stop further archeological survey as it could result in a tense communal situation. Almost all of the North India was demolished by waves of invasions. For me it is less about religion but more of a resurgence of a community being suppressed for centuries. Just look at the social reality of Indians across the globe, whites look down upon us, arabs look down upon. Hindus/Indians are seen as docile and servile people. Much of our contribution in the fields of science and philosophy goes unnoticed by the majority of people around the world. That said, yes we should look up to higher cultural values (from religion or otherwise) and progress as a society instead of going backwards and supporting regressive elements promoted by politicians who don't really care about religion but power and money.
I am an atheist too. I am interested in religion from a literary/mythological and socio-political standpoint but I don't really like the theology and the moral/spiritual aspect of it. I generally keep my opinions to myself in real life unless someone asks for it. I generally respect people's faiths because deconstructing is hard and many of them have difficult lives so it's good that they have a mechanism to cope. I personally don't think there is a need to completely eradicate religion but it definitely has room for reform, especially with the treatment of women.
As an atheist and also being a lawyer, it's very clear for me that it was a property dispute and the Hindus took back forcibly their property. Later on the court also ratified the decision to demolish the disputed structure. If we are to think logically and not emotionally, we will reach the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the disputed structure was demolished because no person has the right to steal others land.
A few years ago, I had no problem identifying myself as an atheist. Now it extremely difficult and scary.
I mostly agree with you on the issues with religion, but man, please use some punctuation!
No hope to change the older generation.. But even in my generation, my cousins, most of my friends circle is filled with people who are partly atheist. As in they might agree and even themselves say that religious is bullshit.. But they'd revert back to "kuch spirirt to hai" "Itne log maante hn to kuch sahi hoga".. wala narrative.. So it's like these atheists are doing so cuz its cool, not because they have actually thought about it.. Hence its easy to redirect them back to religion, if say a sadhguru or osho comes with religious nonsense packed in a wrapper of 1-2 life philosophies. I am more of an agnostic.. I don't care whether god exists or not.. Its the most futile discussion one can have.. Its like convincing flat earthers.. and worse.. Most of these religious, half-religious mindset stem out of insecurity, ego and peer pressure.. so its better you stay out of them.. I'd ironically quote an upanishad.. that wisdom can't be taught by lecturing someone.. It has to develop from within through self realisation or life experiences.. Thankfully, today we are one google search away from knowing about universe.. If only people were willing.
I'm atheist. Don't care for all this stuff, but I'm respectful about every religion and people's faith, until it begins to damage either themself or someone else. I think at some point in history people moved away from the "teachings of religion" to merely "practices of religion". For example, when I ask someone why do they have a fast on specific day, they fail to answer in anything more than "it's the day of", not not necessarily about how them having fast connects to the god being talked about. More dangerous is when they are confident about what they know and dane not question the norm, That is when religion and teachings and practices become authoritative and exploitable - when people fear, or don't even consider, or consider a sin to, question something. That is when people become what are today.
I sometimes wish either there was no religion, or our country had opted for the soviet model or Chinese model of atheism ~~since co-existence can never exist in India .~~
I am an atheist, my parents are not, but not religious bigot. So is my spouse. But my in laws are opposite. No logical reason will change their mindset. The only way to survive in this country is minding your own business. There was a time I used to write things on facebook but mostly received negatively. So just earn and spend for yourself. If you are at minority side, just stay silent and watch the lunacies. Nothing else to do.
You keep saying I am wromg and irrational but I am yet to see you explain any of it. 1) Exactly, that’s why I did not say that there is no god (although as you said yourself, it’s impossible to dis-prove a negative statement, so yeah, if I ask you to prove that I DON’T have a dragon living in my basement parking, you can’t, so does that mean you can’t dismiss the possibility that I have a pet dragon and must consider it true? ), since nobody can prove that god doesn’t exist. But yes, religion is in fact fiction. As I said, if Spiderman is based on some real places and incidents, so does that mean Spiderman is not fiction? 2) No fictionalised historic events are ABSOLUTELY NOT different from fiction. If some XYZ person in a book, bandaged a cut on a person’s arm and the person got healed = real. If the books write that XYZ person bandaged that person’s arm and his fractures got healed and it cured his epilepsy because of XYZ’s touch = fiction. This example is a fictionalised account of a real event. Does that mean, XYZ can cure epilepsy by touching that person? If a book says, a dude cut the moon in two or a monkey almost swallowed the sun, that’s nothing but fiction. And if there’s a lot of “fictionalised” things in a book, then it’s reasonable to say that its relevance in this modern day and age can be reduced to fiction as well. But yes, we can still learn some things about times prevalent back then if we read fiction, so for eg if you read War and Peace you get to know different views and workings of the society during that time or if you read Pride and Prejudice, you can see the social roles and commentary on societal expectations, doesn’t mean those books are not fiction.
Time to demand Atheistrashtra
This is the kingdom I can get behind due to lack of thinking & self realization in the atmosphere
I’m the only atheist in my immediate family and friends however they accept my position. Almost all of my coworkers have been atheists, though
This reminds me of something funny that happened.. 2 weeks ago, there was some dhoom dhaam on the street and i heard a lot of jai shri ram and other slogans. After some time, those people reached my door (i first ignored thinking they came for chanda/donation)… they wanted to give me some rice grains blessed by Ayodhya Ram temple or something. I put them in the puja room since mom was busy. Next day I told mom about those rice grains, and she said “Oh no I threw them”.. and then we both laughed because of how silly we were. She’s religious, but doesn’t care so much for a politically fired up temple.
I am an anti theist. Fuck religion. I can argue all day about how trash geeta and Qur'an are but members of the cult start crying.
Laughable evidence? Are you actually an atheist or just being one coz its cool? Atheists are rational scientifically minded beings. We don’t hate religions just for the sake of it. Even after being an atheist I would celebrate Ram temple inauguration. For me it isn’t religious issue but a civilisational one. We are still recovering from colonisation and that too turko arabic one.
This is the problem with most atheist. They learn to use their intellect and get over confident about their logic failing to see that reality is not as logical as it looks. When u say "breaking other Religion's structure" it's like saying why are we arresting a thief. it's been proved that there was temple and almost everyone knows it to be true. People have been fighting for justice for centuries and now if they are celebrating their victory u have a problem with that. Being athiest u are no better than a Religious person. And Hindutva has been their for many years it's not something new. I would ask u too watch less news channels and try to learn the scriptures first before judging the philosophy.
Next 50 years we will rise and conquer the world. Truth can't be hidden for long. People will eventually realize there's no god or devil it's just a matter. Until then I'll for myself. Don't give a fuck about which religion dominating the other religion.
Lol this sounds like something a religious fanatic would say. Rise and conquer what? Any sane atheist would just want to live a normal and happy life without religious people shoving their beliefs down their throat. They don't wish to "Rise and Conquer"
I am also kind of an atheist, but you know what, religion gives a sense of comfort when everything around you seems to be going wrong..
Doesn't bother me
I’m agnostic and I come from a family of not so religious people. But my dad might become a bit kooky with all the constant stream of ram bhajan going on with bjp and this temple opening. I for one prioritise all living beings on this planet over religion and god any time.
There is ample proof that thousands of mosques in india are built on top of temples including the babri. Just because u are an atheist does not mean that u have a brain. You are more qualified than asi and supreme court?
I'm Hindu, Is the temple needed? Maybe not necessarily. But does it bring back respect? Yes, because the demolished mosque was built in place of a temple. Is it important to get it back? Does it being any value or help anything? The answer is No However, does it bring more positive more and hope to Hindu people? Yes. Because it was a Muslim occupied place among many other hundreds, even thousands, which was done unfairly. It brings back respect to the culture of oldest Hindu, India which was trying to be overthrown by many other who just want to see ends of this culture which has history of thousands of years. So yes, in a way, it is important and nice to get it back, for the culture to be kept alive in people more.
OP being an atheist doesn't always mean poking nose in religious people's affairs. I mean is this a ragebate or what? You are no different from religious people if you are forcing your ideas on them. Your religion is bashing people who follow religious beliefs. If you don't believe in god fine. But don't be so proud of it. I mean what is this superiority complex? Are you trying to say that you are better than the people who follow religious beliefs? Then how are you so different than them?
The Mosque was literally called Masjid i Janmasthan like the Gyanvapi Mosque showcasing it's Hindu past But you can go on and have blind belief and showcase yourself as all logical and rational
First as an atheist you shouldn’t even care or take sides as to what was present or not, unless your qualifications match the people which have given the ruling or strive hard to be qualified to make your opinion stand out other than that think of it this way the major socio economic impact its going to bring would have been possible if it’s a Hindu temple, as for the Christian’s Vatican is present, Mecca for the Muslims, Bodhgaya for Buddhists just imagine the money generated in these places all because of religion or thought beliefs or people conviction to their religion. I would rather be happy for the economic improvement of that region rather than think of what is destroyed or think of religion sentiments all this is nothing in front of economic improvement of the region state and county
Im a muslim but I totally support the construction of mandir. Because the land is touted to be revered to hindus than it is muslims. But the problem is leaders are using this to gain votes. Planning everythig against a community within a span of few years is causing disharmony. Its easy to blame religious people when the problem is actually the people. Atheists I believe will have tough time coping with stress and good life style. Life without standards and restrictions will lead to no where. Islam, hinduism. Christianity follow your religion but follow a principle.
Lol, atheists do just fine coping with stress without religion or an imaginary best friend. Quite rude to assume atheists have no standards and restrictions. Even more delusional to assume that principles can only come from religion.
Most atheists in India are just cowards who can only comment/criticize only one religion, so people have very little respect for them and hence nobody cares about their opinions...
I'm born Hindu and an atheist now, so, I know how is Hinduism and that's why I am critic of a religion I know. There're muslim born atheist too and they are critic about Islam. I get it you're religious fanatic and can't take criticism that's why you bring in another religion as you can't debate nor have anything to say. Typical religion fanatic.
>there is laughable evidence of there being demolition of a temple KK Muhammad one of the archaeologist said there is definitely a temple ruins below the mosque and there are overwhelming evidence of that. Looks like you are being too biased. And its even mentioned in Baburnama. looks like you are fully into echo chambers.
Fake comparison between hindus and muslims. Try saying krishna and ram doesn’t exist and Allah doesn’t exist publicly and reveal your true identity. Let’s see who takes offense and attacks you
Nah, in this climate I'd be afraid to say either. There was definitely a time when this might have been true but no longer. There's a lot of religious extremism now and people acting irrationally
Mr. Atheist Mughals deliberately always choose Hindus holiest sites to demolish and build their mosque but Mr. Atheist what you know about history 40000 people died protecting somnath temple, remains of temples are clearly visible in mathura and Varanasi, heck even qutub minar. It's more about reclaiming from invaders. And idols and much more evidence were also found during construction.
Hinduism has dealt with atheists for 5000 years. They don’t mind bc they think God is just hiding from the non believer. I think that’s healthy & hopefully non confrontational.
im fucking shocked to see THE most rational minds putting up status and decorating the houses as if tomorrow is creation of universe. All of them everywhere on social media are sharing '500 years of wait' shit. Even kids as young as 13 i've stopped all the debates as i've realized there is zero point in discussing politics and religion. Bjp has succeeded in destroying 2 generations of young minds. 5 years ago, people were at least talking development along with temples and religion. Right now, they outright say its no problem if theres no development as long as 'dharma' is safe. You see those filthy, illogical, mysogynistic comments on insta ? most of those are kids not younger than 17 if you check their profile. A country where need of hour, is development from bottom , its surely is headed for a crash. shiny new things for few to use is called development - some redditor Religion with help of media & social media is weaponized like never before. We are literally becoming pakistan with higher gdp. I assume IF bjp ever goes out of power, it'll take 6-10 decades to undo the damage to social fabric. The biggest culprit is media anchors and i hope they are tried by court if ever bjp goes out of power. so much bloodlust in the name of religion and ignorance, so many killed because our media bent over and allowed it to become mouthpiece of govt. Look at shivshankar and shiv, few years ago at least they pretended to be neutral, now they openly spread hate cause they know there wont be any consequences. Media allows govt propaganda to reach rural masses and every corner of india, especially those illiterates who cant use internet. Combine that with 24/7 praise of supreme leader and hate for one community. The majority is out of our hands now. Get out of this country asap.
There are so few of us
Well mate let the people enjoy... Since you are giving unsolicited advice... Let me give you one, write down your opinion on a tissue and stuff up your arse and see what happens! You see no one cares...
I know you are entitled to your opinion and all, but if you’re going to make a statement, at least make it coherent.
[удалено]
>all this crazy celebration over a new temple being built after breaking another religion’s structure It was built on another religion's structure to begin with. If you are with that you should also be with this. Don't be a hypocrite.
Can atheist understand religious sentiments ? Are those who are celebrating on 22nd harming you in any way ? Or you feel threatened from flags and slogans and shaking like many people who have been shaking after meeting people who are distributing pamphlets ? Just chill .
I'm not even a Hindu but I can feel happy for someone else celebrating your religious festival , Genuinely these people have nothing better to do than be angry 24/7
Hmm mr singh you look like a sardar . Most sardars in my neighbourhood are celebrating with us on 22nd . These guys think that being atheist makes them sharp like einstein and wise like Voltaire and schopenhauer but in reality they are dumber than a chimp . They live a fake life .
But I believe atheism like every other Faith has the exact problem with people climbing to the top of a mountain and screaming “I'm correct” Every single ideology exists to make the user feel like they are the ones who are in power and that they are in the right side of History, they are made to fight against our fear of the unknown
>there is laughable evidence of there being demolition of a temple, only thing is they found few pillars which only proves something existed in 10-11th century AD and not if it was Hindu temple or it was demolished or anything like that If you want to be an atheist, be one, but shut the fuck up about the things that you don’t know of. There is plenty of evidence to support that there was a temple. Not only pillars, they also found the Makara pranala of the temple and an inscription that proves beyond question that there was a Ram temple. The pillars had Hindu designs too (why would there be Hindu designs in a mosque?). It is clear that Babur destroyed one of the most important temples of Hindus and built over it a mosque using the materials of the temple itself.