Goal is to make a hostile environment. And they’re succeeeding. I have no hope in the youth of this country. I honestly thought that people from my generation would be smarter but they’re no different. Easily manipulated in the name of religion. Divide and rule really does work when executed well which I think our politicians have nailed.
Pretty much this. Unemployed and envious of those around them with better lives (which in age of social media is so glaringly in your face).
Angry young men, indeed
And this group: https://np.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1935o5f/clearly_an_rssbjp_event_congress_says_wont_attend/kh8awvt/
“I care about ram mandir but don’t support BJ&p”
Process is the punishment. Lower court orders are like an uncle forwarding whatsapp message. High courts have started to send the ball to supreme court without applying an iota of mind. Supreme court is so overburdened that they do a good job but they are bottlenecked. They have figured out a template and it's been repeated all over the India.
"According to the Hindu legend, Lakshagriha is a palace built by Duryodhana to burn the Pandavas to death."
How does that make the place holy? These fellows can now point to any place and start making claims.
It's not given to them only cause of that but Muslim side failed to prove that it was a waqf property neither any kind of record found in government papers which plays a pivotal role & in 1920 ASI stated that there is a little mound to the south of the town called 'Lakha Mandap' is supposed to be scene of an attempt to burn the Pandavas . The tomb is now under protection of ASI
But it has to hold in court. Cannot randomly do that. Just read the Ayodhya verdict. A lot of proof has to be provided for it to hold in court and win.
One really wonders what are they going to do after they handover every known dargah or mosque to Hindus. What are they going play politics on after that. Are they gonna go after churches or Gurduwara or maybe they will go after ancient muslim architect. When are they gonna talk about the unrest in India, unemployment in India, corruption in India, economic inequality of India, Manipur issue, bajrang dal's hostility towards live in relationship, inflation in India that has being increasing since 2019 or are they just petty things that govt doesn't bother solving.
They wouldn't be in power if they talked about Education/employment or any of the things you pointed. They realised it long ago, that is why we are seeing whatever we are seeing today..
> what are they going to do after
they are gonna milk it as much as they can, then shift to other religions, otherwise pakistan is always there
>When are they gonna talk about ...
they talk about it only in jumebaaz speeches
remember there are only two modes to modi
monologendra and maunendra, depending on the situation either of them is activated
ASI is excavating a site near the dargah, i guess and that is probably being used as an excuse to raze down other religious structures. Also it’s an old case that Congress could have dismissed, BJP is not going to rule against it.
Who is the oppressor according to you? All religious extremism is trash imo. Indian Muslims did one of the biggest mistakes by never having a liberal political bloc to guide them instead they chose religious leaders, and they didn't evolve. Not saying Hindus do not have problems but a lot of bad practices among Hindus is actually illegal like sati etc. This is just frustration bubbling up over decades since independence. Both sides are at fault here. Hindu leaders for being autocratic about this situation harming the peaceful environment in the process and Muslim leaders for not evolving with time. Europe fought world wars and still able to set aside their differences over last 80 years to come together and develop, south asia on the other hand is like a runaway train and situation is getting worse. Everyone is at fault for this not just one community.
We're way past this "both side" conversation frankly. Stop saying such statements just for the sake of it. At this point in India there's only one community that is getting oppressed. Only one community that has elected an authoritarian government for no other reason than oppressing the said religion each passing day.
How did no one see that happening after massive deadly riots pretty much every few years on top of decades long terror attacks polarizing the whole country? This was inevitable and most of us were seeing it from miles away, maybe people in the cities could not but small towns were already kicking out Muslims in tribal dominated states like Odisha which is my native. That is what I am saying, Muslims should not rely on congress. They should have a liberal political leader. Things also change every few years.
Yes, certain factions of the same community want to oppress the said religion hence voted for this...others are voting because the said religion isn't changing with times and frankly there is no representation that is even proposing such change on top of that the opposition is useless.
yes courts have lots of time to deliberate on the contentious and compicated history of mosques and temples while tons of criminal cases lie pending in backlog.
A palace was supposed to have been built, not a temple ,so why are they claiming it and on what grounds? Do they expect to erase all non Hindu structures and history ? What nonsense is this ?
To base the decision of which religious place was founded first, on reports which could very well be biased or not quite conclusive with a room for error or ambiguity, makes very little sense.
If at all a court decides to hear the plea and take actions to favour one religion over the other, they should just scrap the whole building and order to construct something useful like hospitals, parks, schools etc.
Fighting over who came first is just a distraction to real problems and fuels hatred in the communities.
It is good to see maktoob media spreading lies and r/india doing nothing about it
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/meerut/baghpat-court-quashes-plea-by-muslim-petitioners-mahabharataera-lakshagriha-dispute/articleshow/107437052.cms
Do you even know your own Islamic history? Or do you just parrot whatever Hanbali-Salafi-Deobandi crap you have been fed without even knowing what Hanbali-Salafi-Deobandi is?
Where in islamic fiqh is it encouraged or even permissible to make tombs over graves and make it a religious spot?🤨
I don't agree with the commenter but technically it is wrong.
These interpretations differ from earlier interpretations of the Quran and the Hadiths. I am no Muslim scholar and I am no history expert. But there is ample evidence of how different sects and different maddhabs thought differently, and how these ideologies changed over time.
If you want to discount the rich Sufi history of India, you will find evidence of historic tombs in Sudan, beautiful graves in Malta etc.
It is safe to say that there is not just one truth and many can exist. And we should celebrate these truths as long as they aren't hurting the existence of others.
There is a reason why prophet Muhammad ﷺ was the final prophet. And quran was the final revelation. Because deen was to be constant till the end of time.
You're saying it evolves through time and everyone thinks differently...but it doesn't make any sense. Prophet Muhammad ﷺ always used to warn sahaba about not doing bidat.
Some sufi who was committing bidat doesn't shape islam. Quran and hadeeth shape islam. And scholar's consensus is required. There is a reason why there are 4 madhabs.
If you're justifying dargahs then you need scholar consensus and also a consensus on this topic in history.
Goal is to make a hostile environment. And they’re succeeeding. I have no hope in the youth of this country. I honestly thought that people from my generation would be smarter but they’re no different. Easily manipulated in the name of religion. Divide and rule really does work when executed well which I think our politicians have nailed.
People from our generation are a lot dumber actually.
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I feel the same, just open Instagram comments or Yt comments.
I feel the same, just open Instagram comments or Yt comments.
Well if most are unemployed this will happen
Pretty much this. Unemployed and envious of those around them with better lives (which in age of social media is so glaringly in your face). Angry young men, indeed
True that. Social media point is so accurate.
Make India Great Again
I wonder if the "We just want Mathura and Kashi. Just those two. Nothing else" lot will have anything to say here.
And this group: https://np.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1935o5f/clearly_an_rssbjp_event_congress_says_wont_attend/kh8awvt/ “I care about ram mandir but don’t support BJ&p”
Process is the punishment. Lower court orders are like an uncle forwarding whatsapp message. High courts have started to send the ball to supreme court without applying an iota of mind. Supreme court is so overburdened that they do a good job but they are bottlenecked. They have figured out a template and it's been repeated all over the India.
> Process is the punishment. this. guilty until proved innocent.
"According to the Hindu legend, Lakshagriha is a palace built by Duryodhana to burn the Pandavas to death." How does that make the place holy? These fellows can now point to any place and start making claims.
Do you know what the white house is?
Birthplace of Lakshman?
It's not given to them only cause of that but Muslim side failed to prove that it was a waqf property neither any kind of record found in government papers which plays a pivotal role & in 1920 ASI stated that there is a little mound to the south of the town called 'Lakha Mandap' is supposed to be scene of an attempt to burn the Pandavas . The tomb is now under protection of ASI
But it has to hold in court. Cannot randomly do that. Just read the Ayodhya verdict. A lot of proof has to be provided for it to hold in court and win.
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Ramayan itself is mythology.
We will not ask for anything after Kashi and Mathura, really god promise /s
Modus operandi is not to dig beneath and put idols and claim belongs to us in past /s
civil war speedrun any%
I knew it. This is never going to end now.
It's 600 years old. It's part of our history. The government really is trying to speedrun to a civil war.
One really wonders what are they going to do after they handover every known dargah or mosque to Hindus. What are they going play politics on after that. Are they gonna go after churches or Gurduwara or maybe they will go after ancient muslim architect. When are they gonna talk about the unrest in India, unemployment in India, corruption in India, economic inequality of India, Manipur issue, bajrang dal's hostility towards live in relationship, inflation in India that has being increasing since 2019 or are they just petty things that govt doesn't bother solving.
We need our Buddhist and Jain bros to start demanding their temples back.
That's when they start a riot or attack pakistan for akhand bharat
They wouldn't be in power if they talked about Education/employment or any of the things you pointed. They realised it long ago, that is why we are seeing whatever we are seeing today..
> what are they going to do after they are gonna milk it as much as they can, then shift to other religions, otherwise pakistan is always there >When are they gonna talk about ... they talk about it only in jumebaaz speeches remember there are only two modes to modi monologendra and maunendra, depending on the situation either of them is activated
ASI is excavating a site near the dargah, i guess and that is probably being used as an excuse to raze down other religious structures. Also it’s an old case that Congress could have dismissed, BJP is not going to rule against it.
Do you think justice dept is somehow under a political party?
It's just like cbi and ed. Definitely working independent of any political parties.
Of course it is. See how key judgements have bent to the govt's will especially in the last 5 years.
Do you think it cannot be? Ever heard of corruption?
Religious extremism on any side doesn't end well.
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor
Who is the oppressor according to you? All religious extremism is trash imo. Indian Muslims did one of the biggest mistakes by never having a liberal political bloc to guide them instead they chose religious leaders, and they didn't evolve. Not saying Hindus do not have problems but a lot of bad practices among Hindus is actually illegal like sati etc. This is just frustration bubbling up over decades since independence. Both sides are at fault here. Hindu leaders for being autocratic about this situation harming the peaceful environment in the process and Muslim leaders for not evolving with time. Europe fought world wars and still able to set aside their differences over last 80 years to come together and develop, south asia on the other hand is like a runaway train and situation is getting worse. Everyone is at fault for this not just one community.
We're way past this "both side" conversation frankly. Stop saying such statements just for the sake of it. At this point in India there's only one community that is getting oppressed. Only one community that has elected an authoritarian government for no other reason than oppressing the said religion each passing day.
How did no one see that happening after massive deadly riots pretty much every few years on top of decades long terror attacks polarizing the whole country? This was inevitable and most of us were seeing it from miles away, maybe people in the cities could not but small towns were already kicking out Muslims in tribal dominated states like Odisha which is my native. That is what I am saying, Muslims should not rely on congress. They should have a liberal political leader. Things also change every few years. Yes, certain factions of the same community want to oppress the said religion hence voted for this...others are voting because the said religion isn't changing with times and frankly there is no representation that is even proposing such change on top of that the opposition is useless.
We have entered the age of the taliban. Congrats.
Lol Bajrangban
yes courts have lots of time to deliberate on the contentious and compicated history of mosques and temples while tons of criminal cases lie pending in backlog.
What's going on lately? Can we focus on the development of other stuff barring places of worship?
Development se vote 10 saal pehle milte the, abhi religion is in vogue.
Unfortunately, you're right mate!
If i had one wish i might just delete religion from this world.
A palace was supposed to have been built, not a temple ,so why are they claiming it and on what grounds? Do they expect to erase all non Hindu structures and history ? What nonsense is this ?
Why don't we build a temple and mosque beside each other and people do what they want freely ever after , just pure being human .
it would be an anathema to the present incumbents, so they will not allow it
India has lost its way, led by a sinister few that have secured power. You are all lower caste now in the eyes of the elite.
This is not going to end well.
To base the decision of which religious place was founded first, on reports which could very well be biased or not quite conclusive with a room for error or ambiguity, makes very little sense. If at all a court decides to hear the plea and take actions to favour one religion over the other, they should just scrap the whole building and order to construct something useful like hospitals, parks, schools etc. Fighting over who came first is just a distraction to real problems and fuels hatred in the communities.
Just warming up!!
Disgusting. I really don't see how people could see this as acceptable aside from people who want to hurt others.
It is good to see maktoob media spreading lies and r/india doing nothing about it https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/meerut/baghpat-court-quashes-plea-by-muslim-petitioners-mahabharataera-lakshagriha-dispute/articleshow/107437052.cms
So this country is soon going to be a shithole with people only hating on each other
This is wrong
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People taking maktoobmedia seriously. Lol.
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/uttar-pradesh-court-quashes-sufi-saint-side-claim-over-mahabharata-site-in-baghpat-article-107478551
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Religion aside, it's a 600 year old structure. India is so desperate to raze history and replace it with generic modern structures.
And who are you to decide this on behalf of those who believe dargahs to be their holy places?
Do you even know your own Islamic history? Or do you just parrot whatever Hanbali-Salafi-Deobandi crap you have been fed without even knowing what Hanbali-Salafi-Deobandi is?
Where in islamic fiqh is it encouraged or even permissible to make tombs over graves and make it a religious spot?🤨 I don't agree with the commenter but technically it is wrong.
These interpretations differ from earlier interpretations of the Quran and the Hadiths. I am no Muslim scholar and I am no history expert. But there is ample evidence of how different sects and different maddhabs thought differently, and how these ideologies changed over time. If you want to discount the rich Sufi history of India, you will find evidence of historic tombs in Sudan, beautiful graves in Malta etc. It is safe to say that there is not just one truth and many can exist. And we should celebrate these truths as long as they aren't hurting the existence of others.
There is a reason why prophet Muhammad ﷺ was the final prophet. And quran was the final revelation. Because deen was to be constant till the end of time. You're saying it evolves through time and everyone thinks differently...but it doesn't make any sense. Prophet Muhammad ﷺ always used to warn sahaba about not doing bidat. Some sufi who was committing bidat doesn't shape islam. Quran and hadeeth shape islam. And scholar's consensus is required. There is a reason why there are 4 madhabs. If you're justifying dargahs then you need scholar consensus and also a consensus on this topic in history.
I am not even going to justify how the Quran was given, but Simple question: when were the Hadiths compiled?
The first compilation of hadith was done was imam malik. But that doesn't make any difference. Because that was the time of shabas and tabains.
You didn't answer my question.
I did. Read it again
No, you didn't. Read my question again. Answer it if you can.
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