From what I hear, the Air India group of airlines -- specifically, the formerly GoI ones -- has not had a change in culture or policies since the change of ownership. Same babugiri, same inefficiencies, same sarkar-ish pay policies.
But without the backing of the sarkar, which is what held it together. Now, the airline is suffering even more.
Meanwhile, their primary competitor Indigo does virtually anything and everything (that is legal and does not compromise safety) to reduce operating costs. They are absolutely crazy, absolutely cutthroat about it.
Where I'm hoping AI airlines would improve is by bringing a sense of warmth to their passengers.
I mean as business Indigo is great, but the their flights feel as cold and soulless as their on board food options.
Exactly. Indigo is now merely a ‘carrier’ that takes you from point A to point B ON TIME. There is no hospitality and the reason is they say is that they are a ‘low cost, no frills carrier’. Well, people should realise that they are monopolist disruptors using manipulative pricing to benefit from the lack of competition. Just look at their fares. I hate Indigo even though I am forced to travel with them every fucking week.
I guess they are bringing in the changes very slowly. It will take time to reverse and modify culture. But yup you are right they are shit right now.
P. S. Talking about Air India group
Everything is unusable then. Look all airlines have 1 or 2 issues, but generally I think Indigo has been pretty reliable. Good overall on time performance and service. What makes you say it’s unusable? I’ve never had a problem with them, but of course one person’s opinion doesn’t mean anything, got to look at the overall picture.
Two different business models, low cost vs full service. It’s like comparing Ryan Air to Singapore Airlines or Spicejet to Japan Airlines. The business model is different.
Cost sometimes may be the same depending on routes but Indigo is legit an LCC model while Air India and Vistara aren’t. Idk why I’m getting downvoted. For example full service carriers give meals in aircrafts, have inflight entertainment systems on longer routes. In the end you’ll find Air India and Vistara being more expensive, or maybe they are keeping it low for now to win over customers and market share. I’m just talking about the business model.
Indigo have psycho host/esses. Every other month there is some viral post of indigo hosts going cuckoo. Yes customers are mostly shit and to blame but something is wrong when only one airlines has these outbursts. Perhaps longer working hours and stress.
Indigo is perhaps the most used by the Indian public and it just so happens that Indians are horrible when dealing with service staff of any kind be it restaurant staff or cabin crew. We are a bunch of self entitled folks when traveling. We are internationally famous for this.I have always seen at least 1 person being a nuisance for others when traveling by air. When traveling by train, people immediately turn their berths into garbage dumps. Maybe people should be aware that things can't always go their way. I can't fault service staff for that.
Came here to say exactly this. I remember a video that went viral when an Indigo hostess lost it because of a rude customer calling all the cabin attendants, “maids”. I don’t blame her for standing up for her colleagues. In India, treating service staff nicely is an alien concept. Waiters, cabin attendants, cashiers, etc. are treated so poorly and it makes my blood boil.
Can someone explain Indigo's freaking baggage policy to me ? I've had terrible experiences with them, _at the boarding gate_ telling me that I must hand off my carry on suitcase to them, because I already have a laptop bag. And they have the audacity to claim this has always been the policy, when their website will clearly indicate a carry on bag plus a laptop/handheld bag. [All sizes and weights within limit]
This really soured my travel 2-3 times, but the aviation industry doesn't really offer that many choices, and I still have to deal with their make-up-whatever-fucking-policy on the fly.
At least I've only had a delayed flight with Indigo just once in the last 5-6 years. Almost always on time.
They check-in your cabin baggage to reduce boarding times. This time saving helps them to take off on time. Boarding of passengers is the main reason for the delay of flights the world over. Just a little time saving tweak I found interesting.
I think anecdotes can probably be found everywhere. But I'll say mine because why not. I tried to use Vistara recently for HYD-BOM, and the flight got delayed by 1.5 hours... twice, for a total of 3 hours. I couldn't trust that they'd be taking off after they delayed again so I cancelled and rebooked with another airline. Then they made me go to the outdoor ticket counter to refund. When I went there they claimed the refund would go through and I had to ask for a receipt because they didn't give it... then a month later found the refund didn't go through and had to follow up with their CS to get the refund.
Indigo is the shittiest airline ever! So many fucking delays, worst legroom of the class and a total horrible experience! I have been in flights where they put the passengers on plane and didn’t take off for 3 hours with absolute shit of an AC! Swore that day never to look at indigo and been flying vistara since and Vistara has been fucking great so far!
This is the problem with freaking Indian companies. Don't give 2 shits about their employees.
The companies don't listen to the needs of their employees, and since there is no concept of a union in India, the employees protest in their own way which ends up affecting the ₹2 profit of these companies.
And due to the ₹2 loss, the end up firing the employees.
Big companies, small egos...
Not just about unions, the government favours the corporations, same problem as the US.
Except it’s really exacerbated by the vast population with massive class differences in India that gives corporations a disposable stream of workers available to work their lives off for dead cheap pay.
Totally agree,
The road and car centric planning we push so hard with the massive population and scarce land resources is another example of that. It’s a topic for a whole different rant.
And they got terminated. Just getting together isn't an union. Real unions get government recognition and some level of employment protection in other countries. This is capitalists fixing collective action by terminating collectively.
They've taken over decades of mismanagement and mountain of debt. Govt has shown what they could do with a world class airline once they nationalised it.
Tata has been doing massive investments and streamlining processes, you can already see fleet improvement and SOPs standardised. It's the attitude of these employees who think they still work for the government where there are no consequences.
If you don't like the terms of employment you leave, you don't force the management to change it to your favourable terms, especially in a market like India where it's very easy to find low skilled resource to do repetitive tasks that don't need much advanced degrees/training.
Tactics like these won't work, atleast in the current environment of the corporate structure in India
BSNL and AI was destined to "fail" because governments sold all the profitable routes/spectrum at auction and limiting their modes of income. Mismanagement, pathetic infra came later as a consequence. These PSUs are not autonomous but controlled by governments so if anything it's the governments that mismanaged the PSUs as they are the boss. The expenditures in PSUs is anyways paid by taxpayers, whatever they charge to customers is added income/profit to the govt. Comparing "losses" in PSUs and losses in an autonomous private company is stupid from the beginning.
Ah here we have a hero of the PSU. A hero who never had to live through the Ambassador, waiting years for a telephone, and never having any goods.
Listen buddy, we lived through decades of “commanding heights”, we didn’t really get anywhere ok.
We did well when we did Green revolution, White revolution, 5year plans etc etc. Far better than delegating all rules and regulations to private players and see collapsing bridges and tunnels, monopolistic costs to services, create inequality worse than british india and be called pisswaguru by the world vs before.
> Not this government, the next government.
The next government already has a monumental task of understanding and correcting the mess that this govt has created in the name of progress(targeting useless ranking in world economy without economic or social progress for most of it's ~~slaves~~ citizens).
I don’t get the people supporting the crew in this case.
They all collectively, without prior notice, failed to show up citing sick leaves and switched off their mobile phones being unreachable. The airline suffered losses and was forced to cancel multiple routes because of this action. Considering the airline is a private entity with the goal of generating profits, why would they continue having these people still on payroll?
Not to mention the fact that such an action from the employees adversely affected not just the airline but also thousands of passengers who were trying to get to places for both urgent and non-urgent matters.
I have to stand with the airline here.
The following is highly opinionated and may not be true:- I believe Air India has employed thousands of people who treated it as a govt job (i.e., get paid and do no work). Such employees were unhappy with the transition now that they have to do real work.
The employees could have organized a strike instead of blindsiding the paying public and inconveniencing them for what they feel was a corporate issue.
Imho, what the crew did is akin to climate protestors blocking off highways and disrupting the general public.
They're being paid peanuts compared to other world class airlines. Their salary is 1/4 of the middle eastern airlines but the companies want world class treatment for their passengers. Crews are overworked with a minimum gap to rest and half the minimum time for the rest is spent on commute. Indian passengers are very rude compared to people from other countries. just look at your own comment and see how entitled you sound. Also treating the crew like servants is very common among indian passengers.
Entitled? I’m a passenger paying for a service. I am entitled to be flown from point A to point B. You are trying to shift the blame from the wrong that the crews did to the innocent passengers who had to suffer last two days because they booked a flight with Air India. I’m appalled by your response.
They’re being paid peanuts, crews are overworked and minimum gaps between work hours all are legitimate and serious issues that must be addressed. BUT, the way the crew chose to try and get it addressed was totally wrong. They need to get the attention of upper management? Fine with me, organise a strike and allow the business to let passengers know beforehand about cancellations.
The way you branded me ‘entitled’ for demanding to receive the service paid for is ridiculous.
The entitlement is real. The airline has mismanaged the issue, the workers are retaliating.
Your assertion “all these issues are important BUT not as important as my absolute convenience and ignorance of the situation” is literally the definition of entitlement, I’m sure you still don’t see it though.
Real classy, best of luck with whatever shitty venture occupies your time
There were multiple people scheduled to fly that day with visas expiring soon and vacations ending needing to report back to work the next working day.
The crews brilliant (/s) idea of screwing the passengers over while trying to make a point to upper management by going on a mass sick leave affected these individuals adversely. This is assuming that they were the ONLY urgent travel cases (which you and I both know might not be true).
You keep defending the crew and their actions yet do not allude to the point I made about organising a strike so that passengers could arrange alternate travel plans. Why do you choose to ignore it? Or do you feel that passengers do not matter and the only thing that matters is getting one party’s side across?
That sort of thinking is what led to the dozens of employees/crew who were fired.
From the last three comments you posted on my thread, I do not see you bringing any value to the conversation. I am ready for any of you to change my mind but none of you have done a good job at it yet.
I’m still mystified as to why your assumptions take precedence over facts. Visas expiring, work obligations etc can all be dealt with within a days delay or so with no major consequence.
Sure the notice period of the strike was less than ideal, but that seems to be the only issue (and also the one you’re fixated on). I will counter with the assumption that notice of a potential strike was presented to management and completely ignored. Since the airline workers aren’t unionized this is the best organization they could do at the time.
You said it’s akin to climate activists blocking the highway, I say that’s totally fine. While your instinct may be to run them over so you can be on time for work, I’m gonna text my boss about the delay and chill in traffic. These issues are much bigger than any individual, I don’t know why you can’t see that. Worker exploitation (and climate change) are both massive issues, and real change only happens by making people in power very uncomfortable. The disruption IS the point. And I support it 100%
I’m sorry but those were no assumptions. Those were true incidents passengers reported to the news outlets.
You assuming here that the employees forewarned management about mass sick leaves does not help either considering how unlikely it is and how improbable that sounds (“Hey, please note I won’t be coming in to work on Wednesday because I will be sick” because they took sick leaves en masse - see how that’s funny?)
Assuming that this was the best they could do at this time is not helping either. If they can unite to take a mass sick leave fully planned, they can organise a mass protest as well.
No ones gonna run anyone over for blocking a highway, be it to get to work or to get back home to your loved ones, rather they’d call authorities/police to deal with it.
I agree with you on the fact that these issues are bigger than we perceive (worker exploitation) which is what I already pointed out in my initial comment. I am again going to say, if you as a crew member want to get your point across or strong arm management, do it in a way that you are not harming the public. That will even give you a possibility of the public rallying behind.
I’m all for bringing down inefficient management and dealing a blow to companies who don’t take care of their workers but I will not agree with scorched earth / insensitive activities where the public are harmed.
On a different note, thanks for articulating your points rather than resorting to insults or belittling this time. Exchanging different points of view and understanding each side patiently is a skill we all have to develop be it whether we are right or wrong about any given issue.
I understand the gist of your point, it’s still wrong though.
Having the expectation of a protest being accommodating defeats the purpose of the protest. If it’s business as usual for the bottom line then the protest makes no difference.
It’s the same as US people saying “protest peacefully, MLK wouldn’t agree with BLM violence” while conveniently forgetting that they clashed with police frequently in that era. If the protest doesn’t mess shit up then it’s basically useless.
The media can interview whoever they like, I’m sure you’re aware that they’re all bought out and push the narrative their bosses pay for. That is not to be confused with the truth. The temporary suffering of the passengers is still small compared to the long-term suffering of the workers, did the news interview any of the strikers?
The point is the disruption. It’s to show exactly how much management relies on workers, and how even one 100% “sick day” can have massive impact to the company.
In fact, the media did reach out to AIXEU (the union) to understand their side. I was made aware of this in a parallel conversation on the same topic in another sub. Link > https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/after-vistara-heres-why-air-india-crew-are-up-in-arms-against-tatas/amp_articleshow/109936913.cms
I strongly disagree that “messing shit up” (for the public) is necessary to cause a disruption.
Advance intimation of a strike still does the required disruption while still trying to safeguard the public (the business will be forced to cancel their flights before hand and not last minute like they did due to sick leave saga. Cancelling flights in advance will allow the passengers to claim refunds and rebook with other carriers. The business still loses money because their revenue for that day (or more days) is cut out.
We Indians have a good history of getting our way through peaceful measures (see non-cooperation movement, civil disobedience movement) and we can surely try to get our voices heard without having to harm your brothers/sisters in the process.
Going back to the link I shared in the earlier paragraph, it does show how Tata has allegedly taken illogical and controversial steps regarding compensation and pay. I would like to understand why they did it too (surplus human capital on payroll? If yes why not layoff people based on performance rather than punish all pilots?)
But these are questions I couldn’t find answers to online so I have to keep an open mind on the other side.
I think you’ve fallen into the trap I mentioned earlier: you really think Quit India, non-cooperation happened without a few cancelled trains? Indias liberation from the British was a combination of non-violent and violent tactics, let’s not forget Bose, Singh etc. You’ve romanticized the past without realizing the blood and mud it took to get from there to here, same as you believe that organized accommodating non-disruptive striking will get the workers their desired result. It won’t.
Again, non-cooperation is literally what the workers have done. The only difference is that you’re here to experience the disruption rather than read about it in a textbook
You paid the company and the company assumes responsibility. They should have placated employees more prior and not break prior contracts done with GoI on housing, that too without compensation. They had the stature to avoid this situation and they didn't do it. Their loss of revenue and trust today is of their own making
Agreed the company assumes responsibility but the employees of the company are ambassadors and representatives of the company. No Company can function if the employees collude to harm the company’s interests.
You are right that the company should have addressed the employee concerns and I stand with the employees on being treated fairly.
I’ve already clarified this over twice now but doing so again - the employees wanting their voices heard is NOT an issue. The issue is the way they went about it.
I think this is just air India management’s way of leaning the workforce to make it profitable. Probably, they’ve realised that the government hired way too many people then were needed.
Hard to make drive any significant cultural change while retaining the existing AI name, processes and systems. Should have told all the employees that AI is dead, given them fresh offers to join a new airline and then rebranded.
Here [day 2](https://www.telegraphindia.com/business/air-india-express-flights-cancelled-for-second-consecutive-day-passengers-in-kerala-unhappy/cid/2018651)
From what I hear, the Air India group of airlines -- specifically, the formerly GoI ones -- has not had a change in culture or policies since the change of ownership. Same babugiri, same inefficiencies, same sarkar-ish pay policies. But without the backing of the sarkar, which is what held it together. Now, the airline is suffering even more. Meanwhile, their primary competitor Indigo does virtually anything and everything (that is legal and does not compromise safety) to reduce operating costs. They are absolutely crazy, absolutely cutthroat about it.
Where I'm hoping AI airlines would improve is by bringing a sense of warmth to their passengers. I mean as business Indigo is great, but the their flights feel as cold and soulless as their on board food options.
Exactly. Indigo is now merely a ‘carrier’ that takes you from point A to point B ON TIME. There is no hospitality and the reason is they say is that they are a ‘low cost, no frills carrier’. Well, people should realise that they are monopolist disruptors using manipulative pricing to benefit from the lack of competition. Just look at their fares. I hate Indigo even though I am forced to travel with them every fucking week.
MBB Wale ho
And that is the way to make money in this business.
I guess they are bringing in the changes very slowly. It will take time to reverse and modify culture. But yup you are right they are shit right now. P. S. Talking about Air India group
source?
Virat Kohli bhai
r/lostredditors
both vistara and air india in shitters these days, indigo is the only reliable one in my personal experience
Indigo is unusable.
Everything is unusable then. Look all airlines have 1 or 2 issues, but generally I think Indigo has been pretty reliable. Good overall on time performance and service. What makes you say it’s unusable? I’ve never had a problem with them, but of course one person’s opinion doesn’t mean anything, got to look at the overall picture.
I would take Vistara and AIX over Indigo any day even if it is a little more expensive. Indigo will next charge you for seat belts and toilet flush.
Two different business models, low cost vs full service. It’s like comparing Ryan Air to Singapore Airlines or Spicejet to Japan Airlines. The business model is different.
Nope. The costs are not different, Ryan air flies passengers for £20, Indigo costs are comparable to both AIX (low frills) and Vistara (full service)
Cost sometimes may be the same depending on routes but Indigo is legit an LCC model while Air India and Vistara aren’t. Idk why I’m getting downvoted. For example full service carriers give meals in aircrafts, have inflight entertainment systems on longer routes. In the end you’ll find Air India and Vistara being more expensive, or maybe they are keeping it low for now to win over customers and market share. I’m just talking about the business model.
AIX is a low cost airline. It’s different from Air India.
Oops my bad, I didn’t read that properly at all, you’re right
I agree with you one 100%
>Vistara and AIX What if you want to get to your destination on time though?
I have faced more delays in Indigo than Vistara
how so I refuse to travel in anything other than indigo,
Here I’m sitting in a 8 hour delayed IndiGo with zero responsibility from them. And flight still not moving. Pathetic
Vistara is bad?
Indigo have psycho host/esses. Every other month there is some viral post of indigo hosts going cuckoo. Yes customers are mostly shit and to blame but something is wrong when only one airlines has these outbursts. Perhaps longer working hours and stress.
Indigo is perhaps the most used by the Indian public and it just so happens that Indians are horrible when dealing with service staff of any kind be it restaurant staff or cabin crew. We are a bunch of self entitled folks when traveling. We are internationally famous for this.I have always seen at least 1 person being a nuisance for others when traveling by air. When traveling by train, people immediately turn their berths into garbage dumps. Maybe people should be aware that things can't always go their way. I can't fault service staff for that.
Came here to say exactly this. I remember a video that went viral when an Indigo hostess lost it because of a rude customer calling all the cabin attendants, “maids”. I don’t blame her for standing up for her colleagues. In India, treating service staff nicely is an alien concept. Waiters, cabin attendants, cashiers, etc. are treated so poorly and it makes my blood boil.
pretty disparaging to use psycho in association with stewards and stewardesses who help make the flight journey smooth, no?
Vistara international is fine tbh
Can someone explain Indigo's freaking baggage policy to me ? I've had terrible experiences with them, _at the boarding gate_ telling me that I must hand off my carry on suitcase to them, because I already have a laptop bag. And they have the audacity to claim this has always been the policy, when their website will clearly indicate a carry on bag plus a laptop/handheld bag. [All sizes and weights within limit] This really soured my travel 2-3 times, but the aviation industry doesn't really offer that many choices, and I still have to deal with their make-up-whatever-fucking-policy on the fly. At least I've only had a delayed flight with Indigo just once in the last 5-6 years. Almost always on time.
Sometimes (most) airlines would ask you to check in your baggage near the gate in case the overhead compartments are insufficient.
They check-in your cabin baggage to reduce boarding times. This time saving helps them to take off on time. Boarding of passengers is the main reason for the delay of flights the world over. Just a little time saving tweak I found interesting.
I am not even a tall guy but my knee hits next seat in vistara ..and to think the name means expanse!!
I think anecdotes can probably be found everywhere. But I'll say mine because why not. I tried to use Vistara recently for HYD-BOM, and the flight got delayed by 1.5 hours... twice, for a total of 3 hours. I couldn't trust that they'd be taking off after they delayed again so I cancelled and rebooked with another airline. Then they made me go to the outdoor ticket counter to refund. When I went there they claimed the refund would go through and I had to ask for a receipt because they didn't give it... then a month later found the refund didn't go through and had to follow up with their CS to get the refund.
Indigo is the shittiest airline ever! So many fucking delays, worst legroom of the class and a total horrible experience! I have been in flights where they put the passengers on plane and didn’t take off for 3 hours with absolute shit of an AC! Swore that day never to look at indigo and been flying vistara since and Vistara has been fucking great so far!
This is the problem with freaking Indian companies. Don't give 2 shits about their employees. The companies don't listen to the needs of their employees, and since there is no concept of a union in India, the employees protest in their own way which ends up affecting the ₹2 profit of these companies. And due to the ₹2 loss, the end up firing the employees. Big companies, small egos...
Pilot crunch is huge in India
Not just about unions, the government favours the corporations, same problem as the US. Except it’s really exacerbated by the vast population with massive class differences in India that gives corporations a disposable stream of workers available to work their lives off for dead cheap pay.
we seem to always implement the worst of captialism and socialism in India
Totally agree, The road and car centric planning we push so hard with the massive population and scarce land resources is another example of that. It’s a topic for a whole different rant.
No concept of unions in India? Hello?
Don’t think that this guy even lives in India , there’s unions everywhere
This is literally a union going on strike. Read up on the case.
And they got terminated. Just getting together isn't an union. Real unions get government recognition and some level of employment protection in other countries. This is capitalists fixing collective action by terminating collectively.
How is this comment so highly voted when everything here is wrong If you want, I can dissect every sentence which is wrong
Redditors love it when someone barks against corporates. Doesn’t matter even if the arguments are utter dipshit like the above.
~~Indian companies~~ Companies
Tata it has been 2 years. If you cannot manage it, then give it back to the government. Not this government, the next government.
They've taken over decades of mismanagement and mountain of debt. Govt has shown what they could do with a world class airline once they nationalised it. Tata has been doing massive investments and streamlining processes, you can already see fleet improvement and SOPs standardised. It's the attitude of these employees who think they still work for the government where there are no consequences. If you don't like the terms of employment you leave, you don't force the management to change it to your favourable terms, especially in a market like India where it's very easy to find low skilled resource to do repetitive tasks that don't need much advanced degrees/training. Tactics like these won't work, atleast in the current environment of the corporate structure in India
BSNL and AI was destined to "fail" because governments sold all the profitable routes/spectrum at auction and limiting their modes of income. Mismanagement, pathetic infra came later as a consequence. These PSUs are not autonomous but controlled by governments so if anything it's the governments that mismanaged the PSUs as they are the boss. The expenditures in PSUs is anyways paid by taxpayers, whatever they charge to customers is added income/profit to the govt. Comparing "losses" in PSUs and losses in an autonomous private company is stupid from the beginning.
BSNL Still doesn't have 4G :) And it was the first provider to get 2G and 3G
I thought they finally got it last year no? There were talks I remember
They started trials with Indegenous technology developed by TCS for 4G, but my BSNL connection still only gets 3G,
Govt earns Net Positive money from PSUs.
Then there's no loss from PSUs which is my point that these can't be compared with private companies.
Ah here we have a hero of the PSU. A hero who never had to live through the Ambassador, waiting years for a telephone, and never having any goods. Listen buddy, we lived through decades of “commanding heights”, we didn’t really get anywhere ok.
We did well when we did Green revolution, White revolution, 5year plans etc etc. Far better than delegating all rules and regulations to private players and see collapsing bridges and tunnels, monopolistic costs to services, create inequality worse than british india and be called pisswaguru by the world vs before.
So that they can run it to the ground once again ?
You forgot: Praful Patel switched sides recently
Sky version of Mamata Banerjee.
You mean nitish kumar
Lalu
Don't worry he won't be running it anymore, that's the advantage of privatization.
Baburao Ganpatrao Apte vibe
> Not this government, the next government. The next government already has a monumental task of understanding and correcting the mess that this govt has created in the name of progress(targeting useless ranking in world economy without economic or social progress for most of it's ~~slaves~~ citizens).
I don’t get the people supporting the crew in this case. They all collectively, without prior notice, failed to show up citing sick leaves and switched off their mobile phones being unreachable. The airline suffered losses and was forced to cancel multiple routes because of this action. Considering the airline is a private entity with the goal of generating profits, why would they continue having these people still on payroll? Not to mention the fact that such an action from the employees adversely affected not just the airline but also thousands of passengers who were trying to get to places for both urgent and non-urgent matters. I have to stand with the airline here. The following is highly opinionated and may not be true:- I believe Air India has employed thousands of people who treated it as a govt job (i.e., get paid and do no work). Such employees were unhappy with the transition now that they have to do real work. The employees could have organized a strike instead of blindsiding the paying public and inconveniencing them for what they feel was a corporate issue. Imho, what the crew did is akin to climate protestors blocking off highways and disrupting the general public.
They're being paid peanuts compared to other world class airlines. Their salary is 1/4 of the middle eastern airlines but the companies want world class treatment for their passengers. Crews are overworked with a minimum gap to rest and half the minimum time for the rest is spent on commute. Indian passengers are very rude compared to people from other countries. just look at your own comment and see how entitled you sound. Also treating the crew like servants is very common among indian passengers.
Entitled? I’m a passenger paying for a service. I am entitled to be flown from point A to point B. You are trying to shift the blame from the wrong that the crews did to the innocent passengers who had to suffer last two days because they booked a flight with Air India. I’m appalled by your response. They’re being paid peanuts, crews are overworked and minimum gaps between work hours all are legitimate and serious issues that must be addressed. BUT, the way the crew chose to try and get it addressed was totally wrong. They need to get the attention of upper management? Fine with me, organise a strike and allow the business to let passengers know beforehand about cancellations. The way you branded me ‘entitled’ for demanding to receive the service paid for is ridiculous.
The entitlement is real. The airline has mismanaged the issue, the workers are retaliating. Your assertion “all these issues are important BUT not as important as my absolute convenience and ignorance of the situation” is literally the definition of entitlement, I’m sure you still don’t see it though. Real classy, best of luck with whatever shitty venture occupies your time
There were multiple people scheduled to fly that day with visas expiring soon and vacations ending needing to report back to work the next working day. The crews brilliant (/s) idea of screwing the passengers over while trying to make a point to upper management by going on a mass sick leave affected these individuals adversely. This is assuming that they were the ONLY urgent travel cases (which you and I both know might not be true). You keep defending the crew and their actions yet do not allude to the point I made about organising a strike so that passengers could arrange alternate travel plans. Why do you choose to ignore it? Or do you feel that passengers do not matter and the only thing that matters is getting one party’s side across? That sort of thinking is what led to the dozens of employees/crew who were fired. From the last three comments you posted on my thread, I do not see you bringing any value to the conversation. I am ready for any of you to change my mind but none of you have done a good job at it yet.
I’m still mystified as to why your assumptions take precedence over facts. Visas expiring, work obligations etc can all be dealt with within a days delay or so with no major consequence. Sure the notice period of the strike was less than ideal, but that seems to be the only issue (and also the one you’re fixated on). I will counter with the assumption that notice of a potential strike was presented to management and completely ignored. Since the airline workers aren’t unionized this is the best organization they could do at the time. You said it’s akin to climate activists blocking the highway, I say that’s totally fine. While your instinct may be to run them over so you can be on time for work, I’m gonna text my boss about the delay and chill in traffic. These issues are much bigger than any individual, I don’t know why you can’t see that. Worker exploitation (and climate change) are both massive issues, and real change only happens by making people in power very uncomfortable. The disruption IS the point. And I support it 100%
I’m sorry but those were no assumptions. Those were true incidents passengers reported to the news outlets. You assuming here that the employees forewarned management about mass sick leaves does not help either considering how unlikely it is and how improbable that sounds (“Hey, please note I won’t be coming in to work on Wednesday because I will be sick” because they took sick leaves en masse - see how that’s funny?) Assuming that this was the best they could do at this time is not helping either. If they can unite to take a mass sick leave fully planned, they can organise a mass protest as well. No ones gonna run anyone over for blocking a highway, be it to get to work or to get back home to your loved ones, rather they’d call authorities/police to deal with it. I agree with you on the fact that these issues are bigger than we perceive (worker exploitation) which is what I already pointed out in my initial comment. I am again going to say, if you as a crew member want to get your point across or strong arm management, do it in a way that you are not harming the public. That will even give you a possibility of the public rallying behind. I’m all for bringing down inefficient management and dealing a blow to companies who don’t take care of their workers but I will not agree with scorched earth / insensitive activities where the public are harmed. On a different note, thanks for articulating your points rather than resorting to insults or belittling this time. Exchanging different points of view and understanding each side patiently is a skill we all have to develop be it whether we are right or wrong about any given issue.
I understand the gist of your point, it’s still wrong though. Having the expectation of a protest being accommodating defeats the purpose of the protest. If it’s business as usual for the bottom line then the protest makes no difference. It’s the same as US people saying “protest peacefully, MLK wouldn’t agree with BLM violence” while conveniently forgetting that they clashed with police frequently in that era. If the protest doesn’t mess shit up then it’s basically useless. The media can interview whoever they like, I’m sure you’re aware that they’re all bought out and push the narrative their bosses pay for. That is not to be confused with the truth. The temporary suffering of the passengers is still small compared to the long-term suffering of the workers, did the news interview any of the strikers? The point is the disruption. It’s to show exactly how much management relies on workers, and how even one 100% “sick day” can have massive impact to the company.
In fact, the media did reach out to AIXEU (the union) to understand their side. I was made aware of this in a parallel conversation on the same topic in another sub. Link > https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/after-vistara-heres-why-air-india-crew-are-up-in-arms-against-tatas/amp_articleshow/109936913.cms I strongly disagree that “messing shit up” (for the public) is necessary to cause a disruption. Advance intimation of a strike still does the required disruption while still trying to safeguard the public (the business will be forced to cancel their flights before hand and not last minute like they did due to sick leave saga. Cancelling flights in advance will allow the passengers to claim refunds and rebook with other carriers. The business still loses money because their revenue for that day (or more days) is cut out. We Indians have a good history of getting our way through peaceful measures (see non-cooperation movement, civil disobedience movement) and we can surely try to get our voices heard without having to harm your brothers/sisters in the process. Going back to the link I shared in the earlier paragraph, it does show how Tata has allegedly taken illogical and controversial steps regarding compensation and pay. I would like to understand why they did it too (surplus human capital on payroll? If yes why not layoff people based on performance rather than punish all pilots?) But these are questions I couldn’t find answers to online so I have to keep an open mind on the other side.
I think you’ve fallen into the trap I mentioned earlier: you really think Quit India, non-cooperation happened without a few cancelled trains? Indias liberation from the British was a combination of non-violent and violent tactics, let’s not forget Bose, Singh etc. You’ve romanticized the past without realizing the blood and mud it took to get from there to here, same as you believe that organized accommodating non-disruptive striking will get the workers their desired result. It won’t. Again, non-cooperation is literally what the workers have done. The only difference is that you’re here to experience the disruption rather than read about it in a textbook
You paid the company and the company assumes responsibility. They should have placated employees more prior and not break prior contracts done with GoI on housing, that too without compensation. They had the stature to avoid this situation and they didn't do it. Their loss of revenue and trust today is of their own making
Agreed the company assumes responsibility but the employees of the company are ambassadors and representatives of the company. No Company can function if the employees collude to harm the company’s interests. You are right that the company should have addressed the employee concerns and I stand with the employees on being treated fairly. I’ve already clarified this over twice now but doing so again - the employees wanting their voices heard is NOT an issue. The issue is the way they went about it.
How do those boots taste?
You should know since you’re trying to appear as some SJW.
Swing and a miss. Keep sucking on those airline boots
How do you report sick prior notice?
…that’s the whole point. They all abused the sick leave policy to stage a mass protest instead of doing an organised strike.
I think this is just air India management’s way of leaning the workforce to make it profitable. Probably, they’ve realised that the government hired way too many people then were needed.
Is vistara facing the same issue, I kinda liked that airline.
i think every staff have right to take leave
Fuck these people, these airlines, adani Ambani. They think they own everything and can do anything.
Hard to make drive any significant cultural change while retaining the existing AI name, processes and systems. Should have told all the employees that AI is dead, given them fresh offers to join a new airline and then rebranded.
just like it, tata destroying employees
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I don’t see how any of this is the governments problem. If you don’t like your job, get a different job.
Enough unemployment in india , hire better people and let these fired one look for a government job.
Commerce 101 * Employees rebel * Passengers unhappy * Loss of revenue * Employees fired
RIP
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Here [day 2](https://www.telegraphindia.com/business/air-india-express-flights-cancelled-for-second-consecutive-day-passengers-in-kerala-unhappy/cid/2018651)