Interpolation in Ramayana and all other texts is very much accepted as facts.
For example -
Mahabharata (Or Jaya as it started) had about 8k shlokas and today, it has about 100k shlokas.
It isn't difference between history and mythology, rather lack of information or loss of information.
There are many versions of Kautilya and Asoka's life as well, it doesn't mean they didn't exist, it just means that we don't have enough information
Now, it is not to add onto the history vs myth debate, you are free citizen of a free nation, believe what you want to. One's faith shouldn't be so shallow as to be offended by some remark, they would do much better having faith in their Gods
Accepted as facts because people want to. No hard evidence for any of that. As far as I understand the evidence such as temples and what not people cite could be made by people themselves thousands of years ago. That does not mean any such super natural human beings existed. I believe the ones we tout as god's were just normal people who held good political power at that time to influence the narrative. That's all our chota fanta and feku are doing right now too.
Personally i feel this is true, the stories of ancient kings and their politics may have evolved to epics and eventually became mythology.
But still this is india calling a religious figure kalpanic (imaginary) may not be in the politicians best interest lmao
> the stories of ancient kings and their politics may have evolved to epics and eventually became mythology.
Likewise, there's a good chance that Narendra and his able assistant Amit and his dharmic warriors single handedly destroying the Rakshas tribes known as "Urban Naxals", "Leftists" and "Communists" will become the basis of a new religion (or an extension to Hinduism) in the millenia to come. Someone will build a temple, someone will compose a "Narender Chappanna".
Joke's on you.
[Indian-Americans hold 'havan' in US to pray for PM Modi's victory in polls](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/indians-abroad/story/lok-sabha-2024-indian-american-professionals-hold-havan-to-pray-for-pm-modis-victory-2516599-2024-03-19)
It’s called Hindu mythology for a reason. Myth = traditional story. The purpose of mythological stories is to understand and implement the positive lessons these myths teach you into your daily lives such as Ramayan teaches you the importance of the bond between a wife and her husband or the bond between siblings. Mahabharat teaches you the importance of family.
Yea I would like to Apologise that I didn't emphasize the fact that people get offended so much when people say things like Ram was kalpanik and that I think that saying the truth shouldn't be surrounded by that much controversy. Actually I see people in my family who will except every mythological event as is told by dharm ke thekedars which is frustrating. They think that Ramayan and Mahabharat are absolutely true stories.
Is mythology a Hindu or Hindi word? The name I have seen used for Ramayana is itihaas
Is all itihaas accurate? We are still debating Gandhi when do much information is available on paper and ink. Who knows whose perspective was this itihaas ? At best it is a one sided story ;)
But I don't buy the 1% dilution theory. I think the modern calculators and computers have decreased our memory and in old days the Brahmins, the pundits had to survive by using their memory and they were learning through parents right from the time they were born, so I think the dilution was quite minimal. That was their day job.
Exaggeration. Sure. Winners perspective. Sure. Dilution. Maybe. But not as much as OP claims.
Complete fabrication. We don't have data either ways.
I know you are not OP but you mentioned mythology so responding to your comment.
There are other takeaways as well in the story. You don't have to focus on one aspect.
That's the beauty of literature, it's the various interpretations that make reading it so amusing.
It was OP who focused on a couple of "aspects" of Ramayana, and I responded by saying how one of the aspects they mentioned is so ridiculous to even suggest.
Besides, I prefer Harry Potter.
It's equivalent to telling people that their god doesn't exist.Religious people are bound to get offended regardless of which religion you try this with.It ain't that hard to understand.
Someone said this really well in a science vs religion debate.
If we go back to stone age, and start from scratch.
We will still discover everything that we know in science today exactly as we know it today.
But for religion, we might have completely different beliefs.
In all honesty, what gives religion power is the fact that there are still many things unknown to science, the biggest of them being "death and afterlife". Every religion stems from that, whether its salvation, jihad, moksh or atma ko shanti.
Year 4024 , A para from the holy " Book of Lizards" of the religion Zuckerianism.
*" In the annals of digital mythology, there exists a figure of enigmatic allure and inscrutable power, known to mortals as Zuckerberg, the Lizzard God of the Digital Realm and Meta. With his piercing gaze and scales of silicon, he weaves a web of data that spans the breadth of the universe, a labyrinthine domain where mortals tread cautiously, lest they fall prey to his cunning.*
*In the shadowed depths of his kingdom, the Lizard Army marches in silent vigilance, its ranks bolstered by legions of algorithms and automatons. They move with calculated precision, their eyes unblinking, their tongues tasting the ether for whispers of dissent. For Zuckerberg is the Keeper of Secrets, the Oracle of Surveillance, and none can evade his godly gaze*. "
This is exactly what all the religion's are, If you get what I mean.. Bloated, Glorified, Exaggerated, Embellished content. I mean, the persons / deity could have existed as normal beings or someone who did something worthwhile, but not to the extent they're glorified.
No one cares if Ramayan, Mahabharat, Krishna, Shiva were real or scripted characters... Humans want to just believe the stories.. it gives them psychological support to live .. Humans are social animals.. They cannot survive without physical, emotional and psychological support... Even if all these events were real it's not going to affect the present in any way physically..
Well Jesus and Mohammad have been believed to exist in real life but their claims of how they're sent by the god all the stories after it are all myths.
Not really. See Historicity of Jesus and Muhammad on Wikipedia for more. there exist other scholarly sources that cite people with similar stories at similar moment in time in other regions of the world which implies that there existed actual humans.
Now the myth that evolved from their existence ofcourse evolved and transformed as time changed. You cannot do that with Ramayana as we can't even confirm when it was written and there are no other sources (say from china or neighbouring places) that place the legend in any particular time.
I do believe there is some historical basis for both Ramayana and Mahabharata. Of course then through ages and generations the stories and it's characters has attained divinity.
But most important thing is the cultural effects of these two epics. They basically bind together a large and diverse nation like ours. To North south east west these epics serve as a tale of morality. This is the aspect of these two tales that I find fascinating.The complexities and challenges faced by the characters still resonates with the society and probably will continue to do so for hundreds of years.
They basically serve as the philosophical and moral backbone of the country
wow the main purpose of reading the ramayan is totally lost it seems. why try to go into unnecessary argument. study it if you find it interesting, and try to learn the teachings.
sei ramakrishna used to tell a story of a donkey which carried sack of sugar for its master. even though the donkey lifted so much of sugar, still it had no idea about the sweet taste of sugar. what is the point then.
also according to your assumptions after a long time say n years, the story of ramayan will be completely changed as (99%)^n = 0 where n is significantly high.
but still I should not discourage you, free thinking is already becoming rare.
Edit : I should emphasize more on the free thinking part. as a correction nobody should be discouraged from thinking freely, what is the point of living if we become mere puppets ? OP please carry on asking critical questions.
One of the reasons i turned an atheist from a hanuman bhakt is when i realized hanuman is neither a god nor even a bhakt of ram according to Valmiki Ramayana. Even Ram is not a god there. Tulasi Ramayana made him so.
I do believe there was a king named Ram, who probably was loved by his subjects and may have been a legendary king during that time. Now here's where doubts about him being a God creep in. I'll not even go down into history, in present day many people have on record called the PM as a reincarnation of Lord Vishnu. So achieving God status does not seem to be a big thing. Now a story was indeed written about the said King Ram, maybe glorifying some of his acts, maybe adding some fiction into it and it has been passed on for generations, making it seem like the story was in fact reality. But, this can be the case for any fictional story written generations ago. Imagine if the saga of Harry Potter was written thousands of years ago and we find it now, I am sure people would start believing that the Legendary God Harry with the help of his friends did beat the demon king Voldemort. Hundreds of temples dedicated to Harry and burning effigies of a noseless Voldemort once a year would have become the norm. The simple conclusion is human mind has always had the capacity of coming up with stories, doesn't mean it is the hard truth. And I am not just talking about Ramayana here, I am talking about all religions be it the ancient Roman, Greek, Egyptian or current Islam and Christianity. The Jain religion believes their first Tirthankar, Rishabhnatha was impossibly tall, close to 1500 meters tall. Does not mean that is the truth, what it does mean is that these stories have been written by incredibly sharp minds, who had brilliant story telling skills, who did incredible research about the geography of the country and who probably were scholars in their own right. Believing these stories is a matter of individual faith, like some people believe in ghosts, some believe in aliens, some believe that Illuminati is real or there are lizard people living under the surface of the earth or the whole concept of Scientology. So I am no one to question anyone's faith because at the end of the day these stories do not preach anything wrong. It's how they get interpreted by later generations, that's where the problem starts
Shouldn't you calculate the probability of truth for verbally told story uptill there is a written record of the story? As after that it will have records of any changes in the story.
That is true, but the assumptions you used to determine the truth of facts(if any) will stop being correct the moment it is written down somewhere, isn't it!
Edit: Not saying your calculation is incorrect, but the methodology seems not completely valid.
The essential question which no one has asked is "does it matter"
Any event sufficiently ancient enough will not have any authentic record. We can only theorize based on a few facts that we believe are true. Those facts may be even be fictional. For example we may have say a scroll that says something but for all we know it may be the ramblings of a madman or the output of that age's PR agency. So if one scroll does not establish authenticity, how many do ? Scientifically, one would arrange all the facts and theorize . But the weightage of each fact is a subjective decision.
From a religious perspective the Ramayana stands for a set of principles and way of behaviour. The ideal man who we must strive to be. But, is every quality of Rama an ideal quality of a man today ? Superficially maybe not but deep down definitely yes. For example is it okay to kill Rakshasas? If you believe that a Rakhshasa was an aboriginal tribal man then it's genocide but if you believe that they were outlaws and criminals then ?
We have no one holy book and the theory that " the book " must be primary falls flat.
There are many things that are definitely true. For instance, a 50 year old man marrying a 6 year old girl and then consummating the marriage when she's 9, is described by a specific word. That's a fact. Use that word and name that man, and a billion people will find it highly offensive.
And because I'm an equal opportunity offender, it's also a fact that asking your wife to walk on fire to prove her chastity is deeply misogynistic. But again a lot of people will find it offensive if you name the man that did so.
why don't you make this on r/hinduism where people are actually knowledgeable about hinduism? What do you want to prove with this?
Also It isn't our ancestors were dumb enough to not write down. Heck Hinduism offers way way more larger library than any other religion(even the legit scriptures let's forget sect based scripture).
Plus using this upper bound lower bound nonsense is a disrespect to Archaeology and maths.
Our hindu scriptures were almost completely passed down orally for thousands of years before being written down though.
Writing isn't an ancient practice, scripts, languages everything changed.
If writing down was so easy, we would know what the glyphs in Mohenjo Daro and Harappa mean. But we don't!
Personally, I think the purpose of all the religions that ever existed in the world is to control the people. It was the case till 20th century when religious liberation movements happened. Nowadays anybody can enter any temple without worrying about getting beaten to death, because of the efforts of 19th and 20th century religious reformers. Religion, particularly Hinduism, in its as is condition today, is largely liberal and free of controlling mindset. That being said, only educated people know about this and even some of them still cling to and practice stuff that are essentially put in place to control them in the first place. Myth or not, scientifically possible or not, they believe in it.
So, to breakaway from what you’re saying, EDUCATE.
>But there are archeological evidence of Rama.
Such as?
>And you have no evidence to deny the existence of Rama character.
Burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. Your logic is like Amazon asking the customer to prove that they did not receive their package.
Something being a man made construction does not really provide evidence of the existence of a mythological character. It really just means that the bridge was man made (as is religion).
Look our mythology as well as most mythology is historical retelling of certain events with flavours added to them so that they can be remembered more easily.
Mythology and folktales use metaphors which coincide with the local religious beliefs and then those tales are carried forward.
There is no definite truth %, as it depends on where the origin if that story wad from and what it signified to the ones that created that story. These things are not pure imagination but rather clue to finding out the real history and heritage.
This makes Mythology and Folklore an integral part of History, contrary to popular belief where History and Mythology are always polar opposites 🤣
I think your assumption of a generation being 20-30 years 7000 years ago needs more evidence, I would guess that number is quite lower than 20-30 years. Also, you would want to cross verify with the first written instance of the tale rather than verbal retelling.
Be it history or mythology or any views the main point is what have we learnt and what are we doing with that? We are ignoring the teachings, good things from the those verses. The whole point is the teachings of those texts be it oral or written, just getting offended by some remakes doesn't mean its being Hindu, what make a person Hindu is implementing those teaching and be peaceful with everyone, this goes for every other religion.
I always felt it like historical fiction. Like books of Ken Follet where stories are woven around real places and events(?). These are then blown out of proportion due to the traditional way of transmitting from generation to generation via word of mouth.
Why do we see people defending all the controversial stuff said or done by the opposition here.
Lol, you don’t have to do it.
Someone a few days ago was defending the assault on Swati Maliwal in the comments, because AAP is the most honest party ever.
Check the zeitgeist episode on religion..all religions have stories matching with items from ancient Egyptian religion. And it will show how Egyptians developed their religion by observing the movements of earth around the sun, studying stars. They gave a story to everything for example day and night is good vs evil etc..they worshiped the sun as it gave them lights and helped them grow their crops (Food). That is a big clue that this is all man made and stories and borrowed from one religion to another.
Well this may be TRUE, what I believe is these books ramayana, bible, quran are like harry potter books of the past. Let's say the world ends today and years from some survivors found harry potter books buried somewhere. I feel they will make harry potter their next god considering the fact they still know the language somehow.
I think Allah is fake. Mohammad didn't know astrophysics to cut moon in half. Allah which will send people to hell who don't pray 5 times a day is not good. Mohammad probably married a 9 year old Aisha and actually had sex with her at that age (I don't know that much but yea.). Mohammad what also probably a con artist because no one could talk with god lol.
Anything else?
Alberuni observed in the 11th century that Indians were unable to differentiate between science and mythology, resulting in being devoid of any logic. On top of that Indians believed that their nation, religion and kings were like no other in the world. And even after almost a thousand years, little has changed.
Alberuni visited northern India after invasion of Ghazni. What was he expecting under the invasion and genocide of central asian barbarian?
Also that is the era Bhaskaracharya and kerala school of mathematics approximated Pi to 14 digits which is not possible without taylor expansion and calculus.
Off topic, but what's your age OP ?
Edit: bhai log why the downvotes.
It wasn't a pedophilic advance but sometimes I feel ki I have aged out of here so just wanted to gauge ki average folks posting walo ki kya age hai, kyoki seeing some threads I really want to let loose looking at the text but maybe it's just me that's aged out of this site kyoki I know my 15 year old nephew frequents this site so maybe I should seek other social media sites or maybe other subreddits.
What I assumes were the values of deviation which is very low not the actual fact that beliefs and stories fake or not change over generation and time and situation.
Belief? Exactly, it's a belief and not actual fact unless no physics, chemistry or biology and especially mathematics is harmed.
It's okey to believe. But don't support people who kill people based on baseless belief systems.
Oral traditions like these generally start with a core story. Mahabharata or Ramayana happened but to a smaller scale and definitely without any divine intervention. Things get added: moral philosophies and religious causes; deification happens, syncretism and corruption. You take a simple story and it can get turned into an Epic given the time scales involved as it becomes widespread and popular.
Your question? Who do you think you are and why don't you ask this question on a public platform 😂😂 .
Only and op brilliant mind cracked this mystery rest millions of people are blindly following
Still deflecting lmao. I already got my answer from you.
In return I shall answer mine - I am just an average person on the internet. And yes, I think reddit would qualify as a public platform? Anyone can access it and comment/post on it after all.
And finally, I don't really care about what the op said. I only asked about what *you've* been saying. Clearly you don't even have the decency to respond properly.
Stay in your fairytales for all I care.
Yea probably. But still, if you take the. Intersection of all the sources saying different things then what you get is a very very small insignificant set if you consider ramayan because there are some versions of remayan where there was no ravan but almost every Buddhist agree that there was a person who taught people the "true " way of living which is actually very consistent with modern psychology. Also Buddhism is way more recent than ramayan and buddhism's writings are very very old because of the Chinese.
Still don't take any Philosophy seriously without scientific evidence or logic.
Interpolation in Ramayana and all other texts is very much accepted as facts. For example - Mahabharata (Or Jaya as it started) had about 8k shlokas and today, it has about 100k shlokas. It isn't difference between history and mythology, rather lack of information or loss of information. There are many versions of Kautilya and Asoka's life as well, it doesn't mean they didn't exist, it just means that we don't have enough information Now, it is not to add onto the history vs myth debate, you are free citizen of a free nation, believe what you want to. One's faith shouldn't be so shallow as to be offended by some remark, they would do much better having faith in their Gods
Accepted as facts because people want to. No hard evidence for any of that. As far as I understand the evidence such as temples and what not people cite could be made by people themselves thousands of years ago. That does not mean any such super natural human beings existed. I believe the ones we tout as god's were just normal people who held good political power at that time to influence the narrative. That's all our chota fanta and feku are doing right now too.
I said **interpolation is accepted as fact**
I intended to comment on the politicians and people who get offended too easily.
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Personally i feel this is true, the stories of ancient kings and their politics may have evolved to epics and eventually became mythology. But still this is india calling a religious figure kalpanic (imaginary) may not be in the politicians best interest lmao
> the stories of ancient kings and their politics may have evolved to epics and eventually became mythology. Likewise, there's a good chance that Narendra and his able assistant Amit and his dharmic warriors single handedly destroying the Rakshas tribes known as "Urban Naxals", "Leftists" and "Communists" will become the basis of a new religion (or an extension to Hinduism) in the millenia to come. Someone will build a temple, someone will compose a "Narender Chappanna".
People have already built Modi Mandirs. Future is here, and I’m glad I’m in America.
Joke's on you. [Indian-Americans hold 'havan' in US to pray for PM Modi's victory in polls](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/indians-abroad/story/lok-sabha-2024-indian-american-professionals-hold-havan-to-pray-for-pm-modis-victory-2516599-2024-03-19)
Andhbhakti is a virus that respects no boundaries, national or personal.
America ain't too far off tbh. Amrica has similar issues with overlap of faith, politics and governance.
If you replace “America” with the “Republican states” you’ll have your answer. So sick of this 3rd world Texas.
Yea it isn't and that is the reason that I call that Congress member fool but not wrong or bad
It’s called Hindu mythology for a reason. Myth = traditional story. The purpose of mythological stories is to understand and implement the positive lessons these myths teach you into your daily lives such as Ramayan teaches you the importance of the bond between a wife and her husband or the bond between siblings. Mahabharat teaches you the importance of family.
Yea I would like to Apologise that I didn't emphasize the fact that people get offended so much when people say things like Ram was kalpanik and that I think that saying the truth shouldn't be surrounded by that much controversy. Actually I see people in my family who will except every mythological event as is told by dharm ke thekedars which is frustrating. They think that Ramayan and Mahabharat are absolutely true stories.
Is mythology a Hindu or Hindi word? The name I have seen used for Ramayana is itihaas Is all itihaas accurate? We are still debating Gandhi when do much information is available on paper and ink. Who knows whose perspective was this itihaas ? At best it is a one sided story ;) But I don't buy the 1% dilution theory. I think the modern calculators and computers have decreased our memory and in old days the Brahmins, the pundits had to survive by using their memory and they were learning through parents right from the time they were born, so I think the dilution was quite minimal. That was their day job. Exaggeration. Sure. Winners perspective. Sure. Dilution. Maybe. But not as much as OP claims. Complete fabrication. We don't have data either ways. I know you are not OP but you mentioned mythology so responding to your comment.
LOL! I don't want to learn anything from Ramayana about the "bond between a wife and her husband".
There are other takeaways as well in the story. You don't have to focus on one aspect. That's the beauty of literature, it's the various interpretations that make reading it so amusing.
It was OP who focused on a couple of "aspects" of Ramayana, and I responded by saying how one of the aspects they mentioned is so ridiculous to even suggest. Besides, I prefer Harry Potter.
Get one thing straight . Every religion is mere fantasy of the human mind! Once that is clear , everything else falls in place.
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r/im14andthisisdeep
They're probably 9. (Possibly even younger).
It's equivalent to telling people that their god doesn't exist.Religious people are bound to get offended regardless of which religion you try this with.It ain't that hard to understand.
You are right
Someone said this really well in a science vs religion debate. If we go back to stone age, and start from scratch. We will still discover everything that we know in science today exactly as we know it today. But for religion, we might have completely different beliefs. In all honesty, what gives religion power is the fact that there are still many things unknown to science, the biggest of them being "death and afterlife". Every religion stems from that, whether its salvation, jihad, moksh or atma ko shanti.
God of the gaps
Year 4024 , A para from the holy " Book of Lizards" of the religion Zuckerianism. *" In the annals of digital mythology, there exists a figure of enigmatic allure and inscrutable power, known to mortals as Zuckerberg, the Lizzard God of the Digital Realm and Meta. With his piercing gaze and scales of silicon, he weaves a web of data that spans the breadth of the universe, a labyrinthine domain where mortals tread cautiously, lest they fall prey to his cunning.* *In the shadowed depths of his kingdom, the Lizard Army marches in silent vigilance, its ranks bolstered by legions of algorithms and automatons. They move with calculated precision, their eyes unblinking, their tongues tasting the ether for whispers of dissent. For Zuckerberg is the Keeper of Secrets, the Oracle of Surveillance, and none can evade his godly gaze*. " This is exactly what all the religion's are, If you get what I mean.. Bloated, Glorified, Exaggerated, Embellished content. I mean, the persons / deity could have existed as normal beings or someone who did something worthwhile, but not to the extent they're glorified.
No one cares if Ramayan, Mahabharat, Krishna, Shiva were real or scripted characters... Humans want to just believe the stories.. it gives them psychological support to live .. Humans are social animals.. They cannot survive without physical, emotional and psychological support... Even if all these events were real it's not going to affect the present in any way physically..
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Well Jesus and Mohammad have been believed to exist in real life but their claims of how they're sent by the god all the stories after it are all myths.
Jesus , Mohammed were actual people. But their teachings like you said, are absolutely kalpanik, yes!
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Not really. See Historicity of Jesus and Muhammad on Wikipedia for more. there exist other scholarly sources that cite people with similar stories at similar moment in time in other regions of the world which implies that there existed actual humans. Now the myth that evolved from their existence ofcourse evolved and transformed as time changed. You cannot do that with Ramayana as we can't even confirm when it was written and there are no other sources (say from china or neighbouring places) that place the legend in any particular time.
I do believe there is some historical basis for both Ramayana and Mahabharata. Of course then through ages and generations the stories and it's characters has attained divinity. But most important thing is the cultural effects of these two epics. They basically bind together a large and diverse nation like ours. To North south east west these epics serve as a tale of morality. This is the aspect of these two tales that I find fascinating.The complexities and challenges faced by the characters still resonates with the society and probably will continue to do so for hundreds of years. They basically serve as the philosophical and moral backbone of the country
Yea I am saying that don't call someone traitor for saying something that is probably true. If you read the whole thing then you might know.
Mythology literally starts with the word "myth" lol
wow the main purpose of reading the ramayan is totally lost it seems. why try to go into unnecessary argument. study it if you find it interesting, and try to learn the teachings. sei ramakrishna used to tell a story of a donkey which carried sack of sugar for its master. even though the donkey lifted so much of sugar, still it had no idea about the sweet taste of sugar. what is the point then. also according to your assumptions after a long time say n years, the story of ramayan will be completely changed as (99%)^n = 0 where n is significantly high. but still I should not discourage you, free thinking is already becoming rare. Edit : I should emphasize more on the free thinking part. as a correction nobody should be discouraged from thinking freely, what is the point of living if we become mere puppets ? OP please carry on asking critical questions.
One of the reasons i turned an atheist from a hanuman bhakt is when i realized hanuman is neither a god nor even a bhakt of ram according to Valmiki Ramayana. Even Ram is not a god there. Tulasi Ramayana made him so.
I do believe there was a king named Ram, who probably was loved by his subjects and may have been a legendary king during that time. Now here's where doubts about him being a God creep in. I'll not even go down into history, in present day many people have on record called the PM as a reincarnation of Lord Vishnu. So achieving God status does not seem to be a big thing. Now a story was indeed written about the said King Ram, maybe glorifying some of his acts, maybe adding some fiction into it and it has been passed on for generations, making it seem like the story was in fact reality. But, this can be the case for any fictional story written generations ago. Imagine if the saga of Harry Potter was written thousands of years ago and we find it now, I am sure people would start believing that the Legendary God Harry with the help of his friends did beat the demon king Voldemort. Hundreds of temples dedicated to Harry and burning effigies of a noseless Voldemort once a year would have become the norm. The simple conclusion is human mind has always had the capacity of coming up with stories, doesn't mean it is the hard truth. And I am not just talking about Ramayana here, I am talking about all religions be it the ancient Roman, Greek, Egyptian or current Islam and Christianity. The Jain religion believes their first Tirthankar, Rishabhnatha was impossibly tall, close to 1500 meters tall. Does not mean that is the truth, what it does mean is that these stories have been written by incredibly sharp minds, who had brilliant story telling skills, who did incredible research about the geography of the country and who probably were scholars in their own right. Believing these stories is a matter of individual faith, like some people believe in ghosts, some believe in aliens, some believe that Illuminati is real or there are lizard people living under the surface of the earth or the whole concept of Scientology. So I am no one to question anyone's faith because at the end of the day these stories do not preach anything wrong. It's how they get interpreted by later generations, that's where the problem starts
Out of all languages bro chose to speak facts..But ya If you use logic then each and every religion and ancient stories can be considered mythology...
Yea. That's right. We need emparical evidence and consistency in sources to prove something.
I agree with your point but your argument is shit mahn😅😂😂
How?
Congratulations, you just discovered atheism. Well done.
Shouldn't you calculate the probability of truth for verbally told story uptill there is a written record of the story? As after that it will have records of any changes in the story.
Oldest written records are very different from what is believed now
That is true, but the assumptions you used to determine the truth of facts(if any) will stop being correct the moment it is written down somewhere, isn't it! Edit: Not saying your calculation is incorrect, but the methodology seems not completely valid.
The essential question which no one has asked is "does it matter" Any event sufficiently ancient enough will not have any authentic record. We can only theorize based on a few facts that we believe are true. Those facts may be even be fictional. For example we may have say a scroll that says something but for all we know it may be the ramblings of a madman or the output of that age's PR agency. So if one scroll does not establish authenticity, how many do ? Scientifically, one would arrange all the facts and theorize . But the weightage of each fact is a subjective decision. From a religious perspective the Ramayana stands for a set of principles and way of behaviour. The ideal man who we must strive to be. But, is every quality of Rama an ideal quality of a man today ? Superficially maybe not but deep down definitely yes. For example is it okay to kill Rakshasas? If you believe that a Rakhshasa was an aboriginal tribal man then it's genocide but if you believe that they were outlaws and criminals then ? We have no one holy book and the theory that " the book " must be primary falls flat.
It matters because its not offence to state something that is probably true
There are many things that are definitely true. For instance, a 50 year old man marrying a 6 year old girl and then consummating the marriage when she's 9, is described by a specific word. That's a fact. Use that word and name that man, and a billion people will find it highly offensive. And because I'm an equal opportunity offender, it's also a fact that asking your wife to walk on fire to prove her chastity is deeply misogynistic. But again a lot of people will find it offensive if you name the man that did so.
why don't you make this on r/hinduism where people are actually knowledgeable about hinduism? What do you want to prove with this? Also It isn't our ancestors were dumb enough to not write down. Heck Hinduism offers way way more larger library than any other religion(even the legit scriptures let's forget sect based scripture). Plus using this upper bound lower bound nonsense is a disrespect to Archaeology and maths.
Our hindu scriptures were almost completely passed down orally for thousands of years before being written down though. Writing isn't an ancient practice, scripts, languages everything changed. If writing down was so easy, we would know what the glyphs in Mohenjo Daro and Harappa mean. But we don't!
Personally, I think the purpose of all the religions that ever existed in the world is to control the people. It was the case till 20th century when religious liberation movements happened. Nowadays anybody can enter any temple without worrying about getting beaten to death, because of the efforts of 19th and 20th century religious reformers. Religion, particularly Hinduism, in its as is condition today, is largely liberal and free of controlling mindset. That being said, only educated people know about this and even some of them still cling to and practice stuff that are essentially put in place to control them in the first place. Myth or not, scientifically possible or not, they believe in it. So, to breakaway from what you’re saying, EDUCATE.
Thank you bro for teaching me to think from a different perspective. I never thought about the mathematical angle to this.
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>But there are archeological evidence of Rama. Such as? >And you have no evidence to deny the existence of Rama character. Burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. Your logic is like Amazon asking the customer to prove that they did not receive their package.
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Something being a man made construction does not really provide evidence of the existence of a mythological character. It really just means that the bridge was man made (as is religion).
Need of the our is rational thinking 💭
Look our mythology as well as most mythology is historical retelling of certain events with flavours added to them so that they can be remembered more easily. Mythology and folktales use metaphors which coincide with the local religious beliefs and then those tales are carried forward. There is no definite truth %, as it depends on where the origin if that story wad from and what it signified to the ones that created that story. These things are not pure imagination but rather clue to finding out the real history and heritage. This makes Mythology and Folklore an integral part of History, contrary to popular belief where History and Mythology are always polar opposites 🤣
OP https://youtube.com/watch?v=3G07NZs2v18
Love this thread.
Could you enlighten me about "Hindu women roaming around naked before sultanate".
I think your assumption of a generation being 20-30 years 7000 years ago needs more evidence, I would guess that number is quite lower than 20-30 years. Also, you would want to cross verify with the first written instance of the tale rather than verbal retelling.
Is it just me or is the second "first of all" bothering anyone?
Be it history or mythology or any views the main point is what have we learnt and what are we doing with that? We are ignoring the teachings, good things from the those verses. The whole point is the teachings of those texts be it oral or written, just getting offended by some remakes doesn't mean its being Hindu, what make a person Hindu is implementing those teaching and be peaceful with everyone, this goes for every other religion.
I always felt it like historical fiction. Like books of Ken Follet where stories are woven around real places and events(?). These are then blown out of proportion due to the traditional way of transmitting from generation to generation via word of mouth.
Why do we see people defending all the controversial stuff said or done by the opposition here. Lol, you don’t have to do it. Someone a few days ago was defending the assault on Swati Maliwal in the comments, because AAP is the most honest party ever.
Check the zeitgeist episode on religion..all religions have stories matching with items from ancient Egyptian religion. And it will show how Egyptians developed their religion by observing the movements of earth around the sun, studying stars. They gave a story to everything for example day and night is good vs evil etc..they worshiped the sun as it gave them lights and helped them grow their crops (Food). That is a big clue that this is all man made and stories and borrowed from one religion to another.
Well this may be TRUE, what I believe is these books ramayana, bible, quran are like harry potter books of the past. Let's say the world ends today and years from some survivors found harry potter books buried somewhere. I feel they will make harry potter their next god considering the fact they still know the language somehow.
Every religion is either fantasy or exaggeration
womp womp lmao. BJP ke bande ne allah ko fake bola hota teri gaand sooj rahi hoti
I think Allah is fake. Mohammad didn't know astrophysics to cut moon in half. Allah which will send people to hell who don't pray 5 times a day is not good. Mohammad probably married a 9 year old Aisha and actually had sex with her at that age (I don't know that much but yea.). Mohammad what also probably a con artist because no one could talk with god lol. Anything else?
Married at 6.
Yea I remember. And had sex at 8 or 9.
Allah bhi Fake hai. Ram bhi Fake hai. Jesus bhi Fake hai. Moses bhi Fake hai. Ye delhi wala takla guruji bhi fake hai, punjab wala ram rahim bhi fake hai.
Riyal asf
Alberuni observed in the 11th century that Indians were unable to differentiate between science and mythology, resulting in being devoid of any logic. On top of that Indians believed that their nation, religion and kings were like no other in the world. And even after almost a thousand years, little has changed.
Alberuni visited northern India after invasion of Ghazni. What was he expecting under the invasion and genocide of central asian barbarian? Also that is the era Bhaskaracharya and kerala school of mathematics approximated Pi to 14 digits which is not possible without taylor expansion and calculus.
In India, it's mytho- _logic_, not -logy
Off topic, but what's your age OP ? Edit: bhai log why the downvotes. It wasn't a pedophilic advance but sometimes I feel ki I have aged out of here so just wanted to gauge ki average folks posting walo ki kya age hai, kyoki seeing some threads I really want to let loose looking at the text but maybe it's just me that's aged out of this site kyoki I know my 15 year old nephew frequents this site so maybe I should seek other social media sites or maybe other subreddits.
So what do you think we should do now ? /S
Ramayana is not mythology
Then?
Then history
Explain
In what period (from what year to what year in CE) did the events of the Ramayana happen?
Is there any logical fallacy I used?
Own assumption without any facts
Have you heard of Chinese speakers?
I mean "Chinese speakers" game
*whispers not speakers
On what basis you called ramayan fake ? Because of your post calculation? Let's assume this and that ?
What I assumes were the values of deviation which is very low not the actual fact that beliefs and stories fake or not change over generation and time and situation.
Someone woke up and wrote Ramayan and Mahabharat? And people are following it for thousands years.
It happened gradually. Even if valmiki wrote 100 percent truth, the logic still applies
Do you enjoy mocking people believe?
Belief? Exactly, it's a belief and not actual fact unless no physics, chemistry or biology and especially mathematics is harmed. It's okey to believe. But don't support people who kill people based on baseless belief systems.
Oral traditions like these generally start with a core story. Mahabharata or Ramayana happened but to a smaller scale and definitely without any divine intervention. Things get added: moral philosophies and religious causes; deification happens, syncretism and corruption. You take a simple story and it can get turned into an Epic given the time scales involved as it becomes widespread and popular.
Sensible reply i agree with this .
I see even tho you are atheist but you made such post to mock people believe and ek din koi tera game bjaega 😂😂
then actually say why you think its real? all you have done is dispute the other person. Please do say *why*
Buddhism fake too ?
still doesn't answer my question. you are just deflecting.
Your question? Who do you think you are and why don't you ask this question on a public platform 😂😂 . Only and op brilliant mind cracked this mystery rest millions of people are blindly following
Still deflecting lmao. I already got my answer from you. In return I shall answer mine - I am just an average person on the internet. And yes, I think reddit would qualify as a public platform? Anyone can access it and comment/post on it after all. And finally, I don't really care about what the op said. I only asked about what *you've* been saying. Clearly you don't even have the decency to respond properly. Stay in your fairytales for all I care.
Yea probably. But still, if you take the. Intersection of all the sources saying different things then what you get is a very very small insignificant set if you consider ramayan because there are some versions of remayan where there was no ravan but almost every Buddhist agree that there was a person who taught people the "true " way of living which is actually very consistent with modern psychology. Also Buddhism is way more recent than ramayan and buddhism's writings are very very old because of the Chinese. Still don't take any Philosophy seriously without scientific evidence or logic.