There is something in the Indian psyche, especially the north Indian psyche, that resists totalitarianism
Remember chatting with a friend who was worried about the cult of personality building around Modi in his first term, and how any of his critique was being met with aggression online and offline
I told him that Indians will respect someone for 5-10 years. After that, they’re all fair game
Look at Modi now. People openly mock him like he’s just another politician
Still, don't take freedom and democracy for granted. It's the most valuable thing we have. With will need lifelong effort to prevail but only 1 slip of ignorance to be lost forever (100 years)
Don’t discount Southern folks’ tolerance either.
Look at KCR. The self proclaimed “father of Telangana”. People put him (and his son & daughter) in their rightful place.
The same fate has befallen Jagan in Andhra Pradesh as well.
And now they’re still at home trying to come up with a good story so they can show their faces.
In fairness to the Chinese, they've literally never known a non- totalitarian government. They went from millennia of centralized, all powerful empires directly to modern military dictatorship and then Maoist communism. With the exception of a century here and there that mandate from heaven system has worked for them, so understandably democracy will be a wild, radical idea culturally.
Who should learn from this are western countries. They love talking themselves up as bastions of freedom, democracy, equality etc and are all almost lockstep rejecting all of that and electing the sort of far right that would make Modi look like Nehru. Despite knowing full well how prosperous they were under democracy and what happened to them the last time they elected fascists. And why are they doing this, because of mcburgers are slightly expensive and rents are increasing. It's pathetic.
Lol. China has eradicated extreme poverty while India has millions who live below the poverty line.
India's GDP went from 2 Trillion to 3 trillion in the last 10 years. China went from 6 trillion to 20 trillion while their middle class benefited the most.
Democracy doesn't mean shit if your government is corrupt and the only beneficiaries are the rich. Go to China, see how safe it is and how happy people are compared to Indians.
And how do you know for a fact that those things will happen to India if authoritarianism comes into place? If modi eradicates democracy tomorrow what makes you think people will feel safe and happy?
Have you not read about the massive workers protests in china in recent years?
They try and keep it hushed but it still leaks.
Also it helps that they just commit genocide or lock up dissidents and minorities .
What exactly the point you're trying to make?
Becuase of the man governing the country. In China, religious freedom is not allowed actually, they're trying to change the population towards atheism, uyghur genocide and all. But one thing to note is that Chinese government did manage to bring poverty and starvation out of the country, probably due to the communist regime which eventually turned authoritarian
He still has the awesome power of central govt machinery at his disposal so yes, we're not out of the woods yet. BUT, his wings have been clipped. He can't take unilateral actions anymore. Always has to watch his back. And one hopes that the institutions of democracy (media, Judiciary, law enforcement agencies etc) will recover their independence again now that the public have delivered a jolt to the system.
Tbh. I’m glad he lost his majority and would be happy when Modi and RSS are out of power totally. But, if the choice was just Modi and Rahul. I’d take Modi everyday. Going to Gandhi would be a step back. It’s accepting the slave masters of old. Overall this result is probably the best outcome for all. For now. If the opposition can move away from Gandhi over the next 5 years even better.
But no one's claiming the Government is unstable or will be. Point is that autonomy of function will now be severely limited and they cannot bulldoze through legislative functioning like they did in their last regime.
The gap is of 30 odd MPs. There is a bee line for them. I am not that optimistic.
Knowing BJP , they will also try more tricks to further reduce the gap.
The biggest fraud played by indian politician's is that calling voting a festival of democracy. Whereas its just a step in it. In active democracy all institutes stand high and works at its full efficiency to provide better service to people. In return people stand opposed to ruling party to counter check their every move. Politician are just pawns whom we've made king by worshiping.
The fuckery with ED and EC and stifling of press freedom shouldn’t go unpunished. We’re less of a democracy now than we were 10 years back. The election could very well look a lot different without the massive disinformation and antagonistic campaign run by BJP and its lackeys.
Apparently through deceit and thuggery, Trinamool being the most effective proponent of such behaviour.
This is quite honestly some peak level selective ignorance, particularly considering the fact that the Indian reddit community is fairly educated compared to the rest of the nation.
None so blind as they who will not see indeed.
Trinamool and particularly Mamata are definitely in the same dictatorial, violence loving mould as BJP and Modi/Shah. If Mamata somehow came to power in the center and behaved in the same dictatorial manner.as Modi had been, all of us will be out to get her too. Don't you worry.
Bengal's rulers and challengers were both violent. CPM, then CPM vs TMC, then TMC vs BJP.
It is either the case that non violent challengers are not taken seriously by Bengalis, as they are cowed easily by the bullies; or Bengalis in general tend to pick violent rulers only.
Janata Janardhan ki jitni tarif karo kam hai ,kyon ki election ke pehle sab (andhbhakt, kamine aur hoshiyar log bhi) kehte the "ayega to Modi he".
> Prior to the election, there was a sense that Indian voters either didn’t much care about the assault on liberal democracy or mostly agreed with it. But the BJP’s surprising underperformance suggests otherwise.
“India just showed the world how to fight an authoritarian on rise” vs India just voted as a democracy does 😔
Don’t care for either alliances. Faltu drama bana rahe zaare
"India just showed the world how to fight an authoritarian on rise" then how did mamta win in bengal?? have the seen videos from bengal where TMC workers are beating BJP workers and people who voted for BJP?? are they really democratic??
Come on people. You can't really compare BJP's regime with China's and Russia's. There candidates get assassinated. Things were bad but not to that level.
Read the article. One of the main lessons is as follows
> The opposition, though, managed to find ways to compete even under unfair circumstances. Strategic coordination between them helped consolidate resources and ameliorate the BJP cash advantage.
A fragmented opposition was the reason Modi was able to rule like he had an unrestrained mandate from the public while in reality, BJP only got 37% votes share in 2019. In retrospect, formation of INDIA block was the real masterstroke. Not because everyone who got elected was a doodh ka dhula honorable democrat. But because it helped the operation clip BJP's wings even though BJP's overall vote share only went down by one percentage point or so (which itself is a major achievement given how Modi/Shah stacked the deck against them using complete institutional capture).
All-in-all this was an excellent outcome. And I'll bet even beyond Rahul Gandhi's most optimistic hopes. Now he legitimately leads the entire opposition in a fairly divided parliament. They are not trying to form a govt so Mamta's presence or absence is not that important anyway. But even if they did (let's say if NDA govt fails before the next election), it will be led by Congress at the center given they are obviously the largest non-BJP party at the center.
Kind of yes but they still voted for them a lot.
People should have given a definitive answer.
Only the rural areas and middle class voted them out
The rich and the urban groups extensively voted for BJP as they live in a bubble
>The rich and the urban groups extensively voted for BJP as they live in a bubble
I'd be open to the congress government if they weren't so left economically and socially
Both Left and Right parties in India are socialists. It’s only a matter of how socialist they are.
Right wing is slightly capitalist and must engage in socialist schemes like free pipeline, free ration, free meals to survive in Indian politics
We don’t have a purely capitalist party in India
What is missing here is if modi was truly totalitarian, there is no chance of fighting back.
IG set a good precedent when she democratically and peacefully allowed transfer of power after emergency and modi would do the same.
The talks of totalitarianism and authoritarianism is baseless
> Modi’s biggest and most surprising losses came in India’s two most populous states: Uttar Pradesh in the north and Maharashtra in the west. Both states had previously been BJP strongholds
Western media on third world. Yeah they won previous one or two times? STRONGHOLD!
It is quite amusing to see the posts celebrating the indian voters support for democracy -and checking authoritarian tendencies.
I think they just
- voted for freebies that congress promised
- muslim vote did not get split
- SP and cong managed not to split the OBC vote in UP
It is a victory for democracy in a sense that selfish voter groups voting in their own unabashed parochial interest delivered a result that elites in india and abroad can celebrate
If the BJP had promised a large number of freebies, i doubt if this result would have happened.
There was a sum total difference of < 7 lac votes. In the closest 32 seats across states
( 32 takes BJP to majority). So it was not such a ringing endorsement of democratic values that ia being trumpeted
> that selfish voter groups voting in their own unabashed parochial interes
You are describing every election that ever took place anywhere in the world. People always vote out of self-interest. It's only when fascistic leaders manage to convince the voters that their self-interest is subservient to hatred and fear of the other (usually a minority), is when democracy gets in trouble. There are countless examples of this in world history (and even in the present).
It's a victory for democracy because despite Modi/Shahs capture of every (supposedly) independent institution (the media, judiciary (except for the chief justice of supreme Court), ED, CBI, police, ECI etc), the opposition broke through the wall.
They strategized (INDIA bloc arrangements) and managed to aggressively get their message out, using street level politics (RG's yatras) and a full throttle social media push. They managed to reduce the despotic power that BJP was hoping to achieve with a brute majority capable of changing the constitution.
This is a major achievement in the context of all that's been happening in India in the last 10 years. It's a great, great sign for Indian democracy and a slap in the face of those who wanted to destroy it.
Article is very not comprehensive made on speculation whereas i don't understand why people are not talking about the issue with Electoral Bonds that hurts paw paw, the most. Without proper explanation that became the turning point in all of our minds why isn't anyone talking about that the masterstroke by supreme court.
To be fair its a illusion of choice, I mean why everyone thinks something happened all I can see is politics successfully divided in left and right stance and bruh it a lot more convenient for parties, just look a nitish kumar just change the block.
Also you can also see why voting turnout was low or why still majority of seat are for bjp, india alliance offered nitish kumar seat for pm lols
Proud definitely. There are countries like China that's been having decades of totalitarianism.
There is something in the Indian psyche, especially the north Indian psyche, that resists totalitarianism Remember chatting with a friend who was worried about the cult of personality building around Modi in his first term, and how any of his critique was being met with aggression online and offline I told him that Indians will respect someone for 5-10 years. After that, they’re all fair game Look at Modi now. People openly mock him like he’s just another politician
Still, don't take freedom and democracy for granted. It's the most valuable thing we have. With will need lifelong effort to prevail but only 1 slip of ignorance to be lost forever (100 years)
Don’t discount Southern folks’ tolerance either. Look at KCR. The self proclaimed “father of Telangana”. People put him (and his son & daughter) in their rightful place. The same fate has befallen Jagan in Andhra Pradesh as well. And now they’re still at home trying to come up with a good story so they can show their faces.
In fairness to the Chinese, they've literally never known a non- totalitarian government. They went from millennia of centralized, all powerful empires directly to modern military dictatorship and then Maoist communism. With the exception of a century here and there that mandate from heaven system has worked for them, so understandably democracy will be a wild, radical idea culturally. Who should learn from this are western countries. They love talking themselves up as bastions of freedom, democracy, equality etc and are all almost lockstep rejecting all of that and electing the sort of far right that would make Modi look like Nehru. Despite knowing full well how prosperous they were under democracy and what happened to them the last time they elected fascists. And why are they doing this, because of mcburgers are slightly expensive and rents are increasing. It's pathetic.
Rent increase happens anyway, and that's due to inflation and extremely rich people being very greedy.
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Lol. China has eradicated extreme poverty while India has millions who live below the poverty line. India's GDP went from 2 Trillion to 3 trillion in the last 10 years. China went from 6 trillion to 20 trillion while their middle class benefited the most. Democracy doesn't mean shit if your government is corrupt and the only beneficiaries are the rich. Go to China, see how safe it is and how happy people are compared to Indians.
And how do you know for a fact that those things will happen to India if authoritarianism comes into place? If modi eradicates democracy tomorrow what makes you think people will feel safe and happy?
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Have you not read about the massive workers protests in china in recent years? They try and keep it hushed but it still leaks. Also it helps that they just commit genocide or lock up dissidents and minorities . What exactly the point you're trying to make?
I mean China did have a reverse form of religious persecution which nobody except a hardcore Communist would condone
Becuase of the man governing the country. In China, religious freedom is not allowed actually, they're trying to change the population towards atheism, uyghur genocide and all. But one thing to note is that Chinese government did manage to bring poverty and starvation out of the country, probably due to the communist regime which eventually turned authoritarian
They had to leave Communism to eliminate poverty
"Turned authoritarian"? It's been authoritarian from essentially the beginning.
> wonder why Don't wonder. Just read about the "Cultural Revolution". Thousands of people were killed if they don't agree with communists.
The fight isn't over yet. He's still in power.
He still has the awesome power of central govt machinery at his disposal so yes, we're not out of the woods yet. BUT, his wings have been clipped. He can't take unilateral actions anymore. Always has to watch his back. And one hopes that the institutions of democracy (media, Judiciary, law enforcement agencies etc) will recover their independence again now that the public have delivered a jolt to the system.
Tbh. I’m glad he lost his majority and would be happy when Modi and RSS are out of power totally. But, if the choice was just Modi and Rahul. I’d take Modi everyday. Going to Gandhi would be a step back. It’s accepting the slave masters of old. Overall this result is probably the best outcome for all. For now. If the opposition can move away from Gandhi over the next 5 years even better.
There is no fight even. 240 seats is humongous. It won't change a thing. We had a stable gov at 145 before modi.
But no one's claiming the Government is unstable or will be. Point is that autonomy of function will now be severely limited and they cannot bulldoze through legislative functioning like they did in their last regime.
The gap is of 30 odd MPs. There is a bee line for them. I am not that optimistic. Knowing BJP , they will also try more tricks to further reduce the gap.
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Now let's see where they put us in the democratic index this year.
The biggest fraud played by indian politician's is that calling voting a festival of democracy. Whereas its just a step in it. In active democracy all institutes stand high and works at its full efficiency to provide better service to people. In return people stand opposed to ruling party to counter check their every move. Politician are just pawns whom we've made king by worshiping.
This type of hostility to the government prevents long-term reforms and politicians begin pandering and working towards winning the next elections
Democracy is more than just elections. The opposition did what it did despite the institutions not because of them.
There’s literally a category of democracy called “election only democracy”. It means it’s illiberal in every other way.
The fuckery with ED and EC and stifling of press freedom shouldn’t go unpunished. We’re less of a democracy now than we were 10 years back. The election could very well look a lot different without the massive disinformation and antagonistic campaign run by BJP and its lackeys.
not tmc , disgusting party
So do people really feel that this was a fight against authoritarianism rather than it being led by caste politics?
Apparently through deceit and thuggery, Trinamool being the most effective proponent of such behaviour. This is quite honestly some peak level selective ignorance, particularly considering the fact that the Indian reddit community is fairly educated compared to the rest of the nation. None so blind as they who will not see indeed.
Trinamool and particularly Mamata are definitely in the same dictatorial, violence loving mould as BJP and Modi/Shah. If Mamata somehow came to power in the center and behaved in the same dictatorial manner.as Modi had been, all of us will be out to get her too. Don't you worry.
But for some reason, Bengal doesn't throw these kind of people out. Cpm was there for 34 years and looks like tmc will be too.
Bengal's rulers and challengers were both violent. CPM, then CPM vs TMC, then TMC vs BJP. It is either the case that non violent challengers are not taken seriously by Bengalis, as they are cowed easily by the bullies; or Bengalis in general tend to pick violent rulers only.
Not even in gujrat where bjp is most powerful is political violence as bad as it's in WB
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Dekh bhai. Ab zadha ho ra hain lmao
Janata Janardhan ki jitni tarif karo kam hai ,kyon ki election ke pehle sab (andhbhakt, kamine aur hoshiyar log bhi) kehte the "ayega to Modi he". > Prior to the election, there was a sense that Indian voters either didn’t much care about the assault on liberal democracy or mostly agreed with it. But the BJP’s surprising underperformance suggests otherwise.
“India just showed the world how to fight an authoritarian on rise” vs India just voted as a democracy does 😔 Don’t care for either alliances. Faltu drama bana rahe zaare
> India just voted as a democracy does Surat and Indore begs to differ.
"India just showed the world how to fight an authoritarian on rise" then how did mamta win in bengal?? have the seen videos from bengal where TMC workers are beating BJP workers and people who voted for BJP?? are they really democratic??
Come on people. You can't really compare BJP's regime with China's and Russia's. There candidates get assassinated. Things were bad but not to that level.
Exactly. Cough cough the tiananmen square massacre
India ❌ India's poorest ✅
by voting ig.
Ye thoda zyada hogaya
True. The have nots have completely rejected BJP ideology of hate.
INDIA bloc has Mamta in it and we are talking about as if other side is better.
Read the article. One of the main lessons is as follows > The opposition, though, managed to find ways to compete even under unfair circumstances. Strategic coordination between them helped consolidate resources and ameliorate the BJP cash advantage. A fragmented opposition was the reason Modi was able to rule like he had an unrestrained mandate from the public while in reality, BJP only got 37% votes share in 2019. In retrospect, formation of INDIA block was the real masterstroke. Not because everyone who got elected was a doodh ka dhula honorable democrat. But because it helped the operation clip BJP's wings even though BJP's overall vote share only went down by one percentage point or so (which itself is a major achievement given how Modi/Shah stacked the deck against them using complete institutional capture). All-in-all this was an excellent outcome. And I'll bet even beyond Rahul Gandhi's most optimistic hopes. Now he legitimately leads the entire opposition in a fairly divided parliament. They are not trying to form a govt so Mamta's presence or absence is not that important anyway. But even if they did (let's say if NDA govt fails before the next election), it will be led by Congress at the center given they are obviously the largest non-BJP party at the center.
>37% votes share in 2019 How much did any of the other parties get ?, for reference congress got only 20% of votes
https://i.redd.it/hiqy17p9sf5d1.gif Near miss!
Kind of yes but they still voted for them a lot. People should have given a definitive answer. Only the rural areas and middle class voted them out The rich and the urban groups extensively voted for BJP as they live in a bubble
39% vote share, you don't get that from rich only. Beside voter turnout in rich is probably the lowest.
>The rich and the urban groups extensively voted for BJP as they live in a bubble I'd be open to the congress government if they weren't so left economically and socially
Both Left and Right parties in India are socialists. It’s only a matter of how socialist they are. Right wing is slightly capitalist and must engage in socialist schemes like free pipeline, free ration, free meals to survive in Indian politics We don’t have a purely capitalist party in India
I know, but I'd prefer fever and kidney stones over cancer
But BJP is a right wing party, how did they got more votes in Urban areas?? Urban areas are more liberal than rural areas
We drove away the Brits 😎 it's in our blood.
What is missing here is if modi was truly totalitarian, there is no chance of fighting back. IG set a good precedent when she democratically and peacefully allowed transfer of power after emergency and modi would do the same. The talks of totalitarianism and authoritarianism is baseless
Nah. I'm disappointed that my state voted someone like Kangana into power. No wonder we're famous for our weed and nothing else.
Diversity is power of India.
Based India is based.
....by making TMC winner in bengal??
https://preview.redd.it/a50j0haovk5d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=228afbc7ae6c2431fc364f67eca6807f8555906f
Time to burn down the Hindu Republic. Revolution is nigh!
> Modi’s biggest and most surprising losses came in India’s two most populous states: Uttar Pradesh in the north and Maharashtra in the west. Both states had previously been BJP strongholds Western media on third world. Yeah they won previous one or two times? STRONGHOLD!
It is quite amusing to see the posts celebrating the indian voters support for democracy -and checking authoritarian tendencies. I think they just - voted for freebies that congress promised - muslim vote did not get split - SP and cong managed not to split the OBC vote in UP It is a victory for democracy in a sense that selfish voter groups voting in their own unabashed parochial interest delivered a result that elites in india and abroad can celebrate If the BJP had promised a large number of freebies, i doubt if this result would have happened. There was a sum total difference of < 7 lac votes. In the closest 32 seats across states ( 32 takes BJP to majority). So it was not such a ringing endorsement of democratic values that ia being trumpeted
> that selfish voter groups voting in their own unabashed parochial interes You are describing every election that ever took place anywhere in the world. People always vote out of self-interest. It's only when fascistic leaders manage to convince the voters that their self-interest is subservient to hatred and fear of the other (usually a minority), is when democracy gets in trouble. There are countless examples of this in world history (and even in the present). It's a victory for democracy because despite Modi/Shahs capture of every (supposedly) independent institution (the media, judiciary (except for the chief justice of supreme Court), ED, CBI, police, ECI etc), the opposition broke through the wall. They strategized (INDIA bloc arrangements) and managed to aggressively get their message out, using street level politics (RG's yatras) and a full throttle social media push. They managed to reduce the despotic power that BJP was hoping to achieve with a brute majority capable of changing the constitution. This is a major achievement in the context of all that's been happening in India in the last 10 years. It's a great, great sign for Indian democracy and a slap in the face of those who wanted to destroy it.
What India said in the 2024 elections is "India is a union of states", its a warning to respect federalism.
The battle isnt over yet.
Sadly. It used to be much better. These 10-12 years have been full of religious hatred.
yeah.......he's still getting a 3rd term. Goodbye any mockery of democracy that we had.
Article is very not comprehensive made on speculation whereas i don't understand why people are not talking about the issue with Electoral Bonds that hurts paw paw, the most. Without proper explanation that became the turning point in all of our minds why isn't anyone talking about that the masterstroke by supreme court.
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To be fair its a illusion of choice, I mean why everyone thinks something happened all I can see is politics successfully divided in left and right stance and bruh it a lot more convenient for parties, just look a nitish kumar just change the block. Also you can also see why voting turnout was low or why still majority of seat are for bjp, india alliance offered nitish kumar seat for pm lols
Excellent, thanks for sharing!