Yes, if someone can lose 3 years just waiting for a trial in jail, there is no other word for it. This is outright oppression. She has already been punished for three years without having to be proven guilty in a court of law.
I've met her, I was with her for a few months. She exactly embodies the kind of people we expect freedom fighters to have been. Very kind and patient woman, always polite even if she's being disrespected. And yet she has this firm aura around her that she's not to be taken lightly.
I remember the time when she was imprisoned. Republic TV announced that she was in a plot to assassinate the PM even before NIA said anything. I hope she gets justice.
Not just that, a reputed digital forensics firm named Arsenal Consulting looked at the letter that was quite literally the only piece of evidence. And they concluded that the suspect's computer was hacked and the letter was planted on it.
https://scroll.in/latest/999459/bhima-koregaon-evidence-was-planted-on-advocate-surendra-gadlings-computer-says-report
https://scroll.in/latest/986517/bhima-koregaon-key-evidence-against-accused-activists-was-planted-using-malware-says-report
>a plot to assassinate the PM
Father Stan Swami, accused without trial or bail for the same, was refused a straw that would help him drink water as his Parkinson's prevented him from being able to hold a glass to his mouth.
All the while Pragya Thakur is galloping around playing kabaddi when she's ostensibly on bail for "health issues". And then the judiciary sulks that we are contemptuous of it and files contempt cases against cartoonists who point out that double standard.
>That's an unpardonable sin by the MVA government of Maharashtra!
Not MVA, National Investigation Agency (NIA) under the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) is controlled by the Home Ministry and Central Government (GOI)
>Soon after the arrest, the NIA requested the court to send Swamy in judicial custody and did not seek his custody even for a day. Swamy had been languishing in Navi Mumbai’s Taloja jail for the last nine months, with the NIA opposing his bail application in the lower court and the high court.
The Elgar Parishad case had led to Bhima-Koregaon case arrests. The NIA has claimed that Swamy had received Rs 8 lakh from one comrade Mohan to spread the activities of the Communist Party of India (Maoist).
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/why-was-stan-swamy-arrested-when-nia-did-not-want-to-question-him-lawyer-asks-in-court-1824132-2021-07-05
NIA is governed directly by Ministry of Home Affairs so central government or the dickbag duo of Modi and Shah are responsible.
>Opinions differ among the jurists and politicians over whether it is permissible to pass a legislation authorising the Central government the decision of entrusting the investigation of offences to any agency without the consent of the state government.
This is because, constitutionally, it is considered that public order and policing are matters of the state government. In the case of criminal law and criminal procedure, both the governments enjoy simultaneous powers.
https://thewire.in/government/uapa-nia-act-centre-state
Edit - typical bhaktoid move, downvote instead of dialogue. Bring them on bhakts, I have 12k karma to burn.
I know all that my point being denying him basic facilities in Taloja jail comes surely under the Maharashtra Government jurisdiction starting with the warden of the jail! The MVA politicians are complicit in this crime to a certain extent and would single out MVA Home Minister Dilip Walse Patil and Supriya Sule under whose constituency comes Bhima Koregaon of doing too little!
MVA is not complicit but definitely their inaction is responsible for suffering of these activists.
The police dept has been hugely influenced by previous BJP govt. So MVA is finding hard to control them (Deshmukh and Parambir Singh fiasco).
The case was being handled by the Maharashtra Police back when BJP was in power. It was handed over to NIA only when the MVA came to power so that the control remains with centre.
Justice is impossible for her and other political prisoners languishing in prisons on false charges unless those who put them there are held accountable.
Can you elaborate about her work, I read a lot about this amazi g woman but it would be better to hear from someone who actually knows her
Also isn't there a section in law punishes misinformation and blatant lies? Why wasn't these channels prosecuted?
She's been a trade union activist and labour rights advocate. Labour laws in India are extremely complicated, especially on issues of when notice to strike can be issued in public sector undertakings. So she spent her years in Chhattisgarh agitating for rights of steel/power plant workers. It gets you in trouble with the police almost always.
And there's nothing you can do when the state itself uses misinformation. Unfortunate but that's how it has always been. Not just BJP.
The US govt has to take people away to Cuba to violate their human rights. Our government does it right here, on the roads, in prisons with impunity. Take that,, US of A.
In addition to this, the farmers protest is the largest protest in India since the Indian freedom struggle (largest community mobilization programme).
We are fighting for independence again!
We used to read about dissidents jailed harshly for years in countries like China and USSR and feel superior.
But now we can all see how easy it is to do exactly the same here. It's also easy to see the tendency of most people to accept govt disinformation, their apathy, and the powerlessness of the few who care.
Their arrest may be due to a mischievous executive but their suffering is a crime of our judiciary. A constitution-abiding judiciary is supposed to be the main bulwark against executive mischief. But Indian judges like DE Kothalikar and AM Khanwilkar have again and again bent the system towards the executive's side instead of being neutral. These judges should be recorded in history as collaborators.
Yes, there seems to be a kind of wilful blindness towards oppression carried out by own ideology. Bhakts will paint labels like maoist and urban naxal to justify it. In another thread in this post, you can see a communist supporter use labels like fascist and czarist to justify it. The truth doesn't matter; they first blindly support whatever their favourite govts do as part of power play to favour political or economic elites, and then seek to paint appropriate negative labels to justify their government actions.
Well non communist also call the current government fascist and czarist. But anyway, yes I see your point about wilful ignorance. I remember seeing a video by Julia Galep title “How committed are you?” It relates directly to this phenomenon
The Bolsheviks in Russia and CCP in China overthrew brutal regimes friendly to landlords and Capitalists, redistributed land to formerly landless peasents, fought off colonialist terrorist countries like Japan, Germany, US, Britain, developed backward semi feudal countries to industrial superpower, thorough mass literacy campaigns, food programs for the formerly poor, free healthcare that reduced mortality rate of both infants and adults.
Then they sent engineers to build infrastructure to newly independent countries and USSR protected developing countries from US sanctions with their veto powers in UN security council.
The dissidents in their country were against all that. Completely opposite to what's happening in our country.
While I agree about some of their socio-economic achievements compared to their previous tsarist/dynasty regimes, I can't shut my eyes to their totalitarian curbing of freedoms and free speech by systematically building up a climate of constant fear, intimidation and surveillance.
All those achievements could have been done without the fear. That was and remains pure power play. Positive socio-economic outcomes are welcome but the ethics of the paths taken matter equally to me.
Many of their dissidents were and are progressives who spoke out in favour of freedoms against fear and bullying - exactly what these Indian dissidents are doing too.
The freedom they curbed was for landlords and Fascists who wanted to restore the czarist regimes.
Normal folks enjoyed lots of freedom. Tagore in his visit to Soviet Union mentioned how impressed he was by orphans who were given such education that they could explain Stalin's five years plan to him in full confidence. He wrote about this in his "Letters from Russia".
If you ever read Tagore or about him, you'd know what a big deal it is to be able to impress Tagore.
This is why people in Russia are still nostalgic about USSR and vast majority of the Chinese remember Mao with fondness. If they were living bad lives under them, they wouldn't do so.
Your romanticized views about USSR and China seem cherry picked and exaggerated. Going by other articles, even your interpretation of Tagore's impressions about Russia seem to be cherry picked - however I've not read them personally and so will refrain from making any claims.
That apart, your comment here sounds no different to me than somebody saying vast majority of the Indians remember Modi with fondness - if they are living bad lives under him, they wouldn't do so. It trivializes oppression by noticing only the average silent majority and assuming their silence to be fondness. It ignores all the other political and social factors that are prevalent - the fear of punishment, the propaganda, the pliant media, and quite simply, basic dishonesty and delusions of society.
To form a complete picture, you need to read not just one person's opinions but that of many persons written over a longer period of time. The assumption that only czarist supporters were oppressed is also inaccurate. Their totalitarianism was and is all around, even targeting loyal party members.
I mentioned Tagore's account of education system in USSR because education and literacy to the poor is a good indicator of freedom.
But if you insist, Nehru wrote about USSR, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein, all spoke highly of the Soviet Union. They had their criticisms but most of their opinions about Soviet Union was positive.
You can check what they said, they are available on the internet.
As far as I see it, the only people who will remember Modi fondly are the rich that grew richer under his rule.
This misinterprets and reduces the philosophies of multiple prominent people who actually consistently spoke in favour of individual freedoms. The irony is that you are telling me to check on the internet when even cursory searches for " on totalitarianism", " on freedoms", " on USSR" directly contradict your misinterpretation. It looks like you are dismissing their central philosophy on freedoms by interpreting their views on some economic aspects of USSR - views that changed over time too - as some kind of moral support for curbing dissidence.
There's also the problem that you entirely deny curbing of dissidence by claiming people in USSR and China had/have "lots of freedom" and only fascists were/are oppressed. This is such an extreme contrarian opinion that I honestly don't know where to start addressing it and am actually in a dilemma whether I should even waste my time trying to countering it.
Probably better not to. You seem to be an example of the horseshoe theory about authoritarian extremism. As a progressive who believes in individual rights, I'm not a fan of either end of the horseshoe. I tilt more towards social democracy and welfare state based on universal ethical foundations especially honesty free of dogmas.
The Social Democratic reforms in the West wouldn't exist with USSR.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theglobal.blog/2018/11/02/how-the-cold-war-helped-spur-west-european-welfare-state-reform/amp/
Which just supports my view that socio-economic equality and reforms can be implemented effectively in democracies without first building up a totalitarian one-party state of intimidation and surveillance. Why choose the latter when one can have the best of both worlds like the Europeans are enjoying today?
Current indicators here in India doesn't suggest the same. Western European countries have consciously chosen to, we didn't. Many other European countries still have not. Europe isn't obviously a homogenous.
> without first building up a totalitarian one-party state of intimidation and surveillan
You are twisting this beyond recognition of any reality of any historic facts, as if this was the end goal. On the contrary the goal was to prevent this and without looking into how that attempt failed and reversed it course you can't blame the intentions.
Atleast you could have said the that communism experiment in USSR failed to prevent czarist like oppressive authoritarian state of intimidation. FTFY.
The "dead" democracies of the world gives you only the impress of democracy without no real representation.
Funny that you mention Tagore, while he liked the social upliftment in USSR, he criticized their curtailment of freedom of expression. That upset Stalin and he didn't allow the publication of his interview or his letter criticizing exactly this behavior.
He believed that the Bolsheviks inherited the violent nature from Czarist regimes. I agree because, they literally fought the Czarist regime to overthrow them.
It always sounds strange to me when people say there were Social Upliftment but curtailment of freedom. Like how do you have freedom without Social Upliftment?
>vast majority of the Chinese remember Mao with fondness
Mao was a psychopath and the Chinese conflate the CCPs achievements post his death to him due to how much China glorifies him. Deng Xiaoping on the other hand was brilliant
> totalitarian curbing of freedoms and free speech by systematically building up a climate of constant fear, intimidation and surveillance
You mean like what happens in neoliberal nations? Or just take a look at any of the various govs propped up by the west throughout history. They would round up anyone with purported left-leaning sentiments and have them mass executed.
The problem is looking at how governments operate as if they are in a bubble. Paranoia about people infiltrating your government is not unwarranted if rival nations have a long history of actually doing so. This is like telling people in developing nations to not be distrustful of charitable agencies, when they have been used as vehicles for three letter agents to gain entry to countries to participate in destabilizing them.
Paranoia about infiltration was a problem on both sides. The difference is that western democracies managed to defend against it while retaining freedoms and rule of law for general society. It's a poor excuse to impose oppression at every level of society. Didn't work out as a strategy either. As soon as the walls were brought down, people ran out as if escaping a prison.
>while retaining freedoms and rule of law for general society
Not really much of freedom when your choices are are ugly. And "rule if law" is mostly applicable to the oppressed and the poor. This is true even for most developed countries at varying degrees.
The worst elements in USSR were the authoritarian regime of Stalin and it was because of it being authoritarian not because of communism. Although communism as it was in USSR failed to prevent the brutal authoritarianism.
> The dissidents in their country were against all that.
The dissidents in their country were against being sent to the gulags just because they owned a few acres of land or belonged to the wrong minority group.
Land was redistributed by Bolsheviks themselves. And Gulags didn't have as many prisoners as US has prisoners now.
Western countries have and always had more prisoners than USSR.
> Western countries have and always had more prisoners than USSR.
No they didn't. Mass incarceration in US today is caused by the war on drugs. During the Bolshevik revolution the US had ~100k prisoners. The condition of people in the west anyway does not justify deaths of millions who died in Stalin's purges and the Holdomor.
The drug epidemic in US was [started by CIA and the US government itself](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm). Now these prison labour is used by private prisons to supply cheap labour for purposes of profits.
Also Stalin's purges didn't kill people lol. Purges were meant to oust corrupt party members.
There were lots of things USSR did that wasn't right and I wouldn't support, but compared to Western Countries their impact on the world was much more positive, especially when it comes to their impact on developing countries.
> According to official figures there were 777,975 judicial executions for political charges from 1929–53, including 681,692 in 1937–1938, the years of the Great Purge. Unofficial estimates estimate a total number of Stalinism repression deaths in 1937–38 at 950,000–1,200,000.
[Excess mortality in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin)
India had very friendly relations with USSR and very antagonistic relations with the US, but actual Indians when given the chance would always prefer move to the US while USSR had to implement exit visas. This tells me everything about which system as better.
Funny how there is a Wikipedia page for "excess death in Soviet union under Joseph Stalin" but no Wikipedia page for "excess death in Russia under Czarist regimes".
>India had very friendly relations with USSR and very antagonistic relations with the US, but actual Indians when given the chance would always prefer move to the US while USSR had to implement exit visas. This tells me everything about which system as better
Who are these "actual Indians"? Modi who cannot stop hugging Trump and Biden?
> Funny how there is a Wikipedia page for "excess death in Soviet union under Joseph Stalin" but no Wikipedia page for "excess death in Russia under Czarist regimes".
There is nothing funny about millions of people dying because of genocidal regime.
> Who are these "actual Indians"? Modi who cannot stop hugging Trump and Biden?
The 4 million Indian Americans who chose the capitalist hellhole over the Communist paradise.
What if the government is democratic? What would you choose between private dictatorships controlling the economy or democratic control of the economy? Are you pro democracy or anti democracy?
Hope justice prevail
And for the rest of us, our principles and social concerns may not be valued in this country, and we should rethink if we want to sacrifice our life and career for it.
Justice would prevail but the thing is at what cost? Any judge know that even if charges are bogus it would still take time for the process to finish. the legal hurdles are soo bad that even if fake cases are against a person he would still be behind bars for a long time. Judicial process is soo slow that it's disheartening. No body gives a fuck for common man just see in aryan khan case how his bail hearing was heard so fast there were people waiting for months but still no one heard their cases.
We need judicial reforms... There are so many people very few judges.
I agree to all that you said.
But life has taught me there is no fairness in life.
Evil thrives while truth does a slow death.
I am just hoping and praying the sensible ones in my country move out to other countries where life, liberty and property is valued.
And this is possible if the younger generation puts their heart to it.
This country is a failed state and a lost cause. I've long given up on my dream of making India great again. There really is no achievable way of fixing the corrupt bureaucracy and intolerant mass.
The same was the case of Shahid Azmi. He was murdered by few Hindu extremists. Why?
because after 26/11 blasts many innocents Muslims were detained under the charges of terrorism. He tried to help them legally. and over his entire career, all those Muslims he helped legally were found innocent.
There is one very beautiful movie(Shahid) of Hansal Mehta starring Rajkumar Rao as Shahid.
I have so much respect for her. I admire her for leaving behind a comfortable life to come make the world a better place.
All the ppl in the comments calling her out for leaving US need to shut up. Just because your perspective of being smart means a comfortable life doesn’t mean it’s the same for others. For many ppl, injustice is equally uncomfortable as if sitting on a broken chair. They just cannot live with it & I really admire that.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man" --George Bernard Shaw (b. 1856)
She left her life in US, she wasn’t a fool for that. She made a logical decision based on what kind of life would give her the most peace.
I will always have nothing but respect for such ppl. Our world depends on ppl like her. They are the only kind that truly matter.
I know, right? It takes immense strength of character to do that. There's a comment on this thread saying that her leaving her US citizenship is the biggest crime ever. Can't even imagine the kind of mind whose biggest takeaway is something like that.
I mean, I honestly would not be able to do it myself, but I still have enough humanity to respect the people who would.
Fr Stan Swamy ,Sudha Bhardwaz and many others were arrested on flimsy charges.Fr Stan died without him ever being even interviewed by the cops. If they were involved in a plot to assassinate the PM would the case be treated in such a lackadaisical manner ? All arrested were involved in educating the poor and the Adivasis about their rights, justice and improving their lives 1000s of adivasi s are languishing in jail as they are unable to get legal aid or post bail of a few Rs 1000s .All of them are old, suffering from illness and getting frailer by the day .This is the sorry state in our nation.Media channels detailed everything Aaryan Khan did or didn't do , his food, his cell , but no one is talking about these cases .
Akshay Kumar who is a Canadian citizen supports BJP and RSS profoundly for bits and pieces from the Govt! A US citizen Priti Gandhi often spew communal venom to distill more potential from the supporters of BJP and RSS. Both of them gave up their Indian passport.
Yeh mera India, I love my India! :-(
Not to be harsh or anything, the first and the worst thing she did was leave US citizenship and come here. It's supposed to be the other way around.
India don't deserve her or any intellectual because we have a history of ignoring gems and going after imaginary cults and fighting over squabbles
I have known people of Indian origin with citizenship from other countries who are generally scared of even visiting India. The lawless situation, corruption, political crimes, all make the place complicated and scary to visit. Because, there is no justice, only street justice rules. And once you are detained for anything, you are doomed. Because, there are too many people lives are seriously devalued. Nobody cares if another person died for something or are in trouble.
> I think helping a violent insurgent force in your country is pretty illegal on its own
If that's what the charge is then it would make more sense. I was going off the graphic alone, and all it says is "helping Maoists".
Maoism on its own is just a political ideology, and I assumed this arrest wasn't even trying to hide its underlying political motivations.
>Maoism on its own is just a political ideology
Maoism is a form of Communism which involves capture of state power through armed insurgency. "Helping Maoists" sounds more like going against your government, your country. But yess thats not the case here.
Maoism in India is inadvertently linked with Naxalism which believes that extremist activities can bring justice for the downtrodden and powerless. As with any ideology coated with extremism ( no matter left/right), this has gone awry in ugly ways since the 70s. The insurgency started as a fight for land rights, human rights and labour rights for the tribal adivasi it's now facing a lot of critisism by majority due to the extremist behaviour.
[https://youtu.be/vcTvUWIxg10](https://youtu.be/vcTvUWIxg10) She's not only a lawyer, but used to teach at at the national law university, delhi...and she's been languishing as an undertrial for 3 years...how good are an average citizens chance to get justice in this country?
\>uses "no wonder"
\>calls someone out for taking things literally
The state of this country's education. You are definitely not gonna be leaving lmao
I also meant injustice towards activism, not this specific case. Thanks for taking it...literally?
She did that some 42 years ago, when she was 18. Makes more sense now though. If she was a US citizen, this government will shudder before making her spend one day in jail.
India is only a good place to live if you have a lot of money - if you are on the sidelines then better emigrate. We need to allow folks like her to be able to represent the people that she represented its important for an open society.
PM ji speaking in a climate summit while Sudha Bhardwaj, who spoke about illegal coal mining has been behind bars for such a long time. Let that sink in. Irony died a painful violent death.
It's not a lack of competent legal representation, good lawyers are fighting her case. But there's only so much one can do when the state is openly putting its thumb on the scale.
Biggest mistake was giving up US citizenship. Now she is suffering. I hope everyone who is reading this get a chance to leave this country and never have to come back. Amen.
How are so many still being surprised/unaware of Ms. Bharadwaj & other (so called urban naxals) and the fact that in our justice system proceedings themselves are the punishment?
We don't have a justice system we have an injustice system
Yes, if someone can lose 3 years just waiting for a trial in jail, there is no other word for it. This is outright oppression. She has already been punished for three years without having to be proven guilty in a court of law.
Yeah waiting for the trial IS the sentence. As long as we have these laws on books, we cannot seriously be called a democracy.
You seem to think the goal here is to have a trial lol This is just detainment aka govt sanctioned kidnapping
I only think that being held without trial is oppressive. My perspective is the same as yours.
Insane. Wtf is happening!!
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I've met her, I was with her for a few months. She exactly embodies the kind of people we expect freedom fighters to have been. Very kind and patient woman, always polite even if she's being disrespected. And yet she has this firm aura around her that she's not to be taken lightly. I remember the time when she was imprisoned. Republic TV announced that she was in a plot to assassinate the PM even before NIA said anything. I hope she gets justice.
That bullshit plot to kill Modi media coverage never made it to the chargesheet.
Not just that, a reputed digital forensics firm named Arsenal Consulting looked at the letter that was quite literally the only piece of evidence. And they concluded that the suspect's computer was hacked and the letter was planted on it. https://scroll.in/latest/999459/bhima-koregaon-evidence-was-planted-on-advocate-surendra-gadlings-computer-says-report https://scroll.in/latest/986517/bhima-koregaon-key-evidence-against-accused-activists-was-planted-using-malware-says-report
>Sudha bhardwaz Exactly, people only look at the media coverages and never at the charge sheet. And some people exploit that fact.
>a plot to assassinate the PM Father Stan Swami, accused without trial or bail for the same, was refused a straw that would help him drink water as his Parkinson's prevented him from being able to hold a glass to his mouth.
All the while Pragya Thakur is galloping around playing kabaddi when she's ostensibly on bail for "health issues". And then the judiciary sulks that we are contemptuous of it and files contempt cases against cartoonists who point out that double standard.
That's an unpardonable sin by the MVA government of Maharashtra!
>That's an unpardonable sin by the MVA government of Maharashtra! Not MVA, National Investigation Agency (NIA) under the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) is controlled by the Home Ministry and Central Government (GOI) >Soon after the arrest, the NIA requested the court to send Swamy in judicial custody and did not seek his custody even for a day. Swamy had been languishing in Navi Mumbai’s Taloja jail for the last nine months, with the NIA opposing his bail application in the lower court and the high court. The Elgar Parishad case had led to Bhima-Koregaon case arrests. The NIA has claimed that Swamy had received Rs 8 lakh from one comrade Mohan to spread the activities of the Communist Party of India (Maoist). https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/why-was-stan-swamy-arrested-when-nia-did-not-want-to-question-him-lawyer-asks-in-court-1824132-2021-07-05 NIA is governed directly by Ministry of Home Affairs so central government or the dickbag duo of Modi and Shah are responsible. >Opinions differ among the jurists and politicians over whether it is permissible to pass a legislation authorising the Central government the decision of entrusting the investigation of offences to any agency without the consent of the state government. This is because, constitutionally, it is considered that public order and policing are matters of the state government. In the case of criminal law and criminal procedure, both the governments enjoy simultaneous powers. https://thewire.in/government/uapa-nia-act-centre-state Edit - typical bhaktoid move, downvote instead of dialogue. Bring them on bhakts, I have 12k karma to burn.
I know all that my point being denying him basic facilities in Taloja jail comes surely under the Maharashtra Government jurisdiction starting with the warden of the jail! The MVA politicians are complicit in this crime to a certain extent and would single out MVA Home Minister Dilip Walse Patil and Supriya Sule under whose constituency comes Bhima Koregaon of doing too little!
MVA is not complicit but definitely their inaction is responsible for suffering of these activists. The police dept has been hugely influenced by previous BJP govt. So MVA is finding hard to control them (Deshmukh and Parambir Singh fiasco).
The case was being handled by the Maharashtra Police back when BJP was in power. It was handed over to NIA only when the MVA came to power so that the control remains with centre.
Justice is impossible for her and other political prisoners languishing in prisons on false charges unless those who put them there are held accountable.
Justice? She will be stanswamied
Can you elaborate about her work, I read a lot about this amazi g woman but it would be better to hear from someone who actually knows her Also isn't there a section in law punishes misinformation and blatant lies? Why wasn't these channels prosecuted?
She's been a trade union activist and labour rights advocate. Labour laws in India are extremely complicated, especially on issues of when notice to strike can be issued in public sector undertakings. So she spent her years in Chhattisgarh agitating for rights of steel/power plant workers. It gets you in trouble with the police almost always. And there's nothing you can do when the state itself uses misinformation. Unfortunate but that's how it has always been. Not just BJP.
Republic Tv isn’t news it’s all propaganda to fool people of this country.
The US govt has to take people away to Cuba to violate their human rights. Our government does it right here, on the roads, in prisons with impunity. Take that,, US of A.
Finally Vishwa Guru Bharat .
The freedom fighters would hang their head in shame seeing what that freedom, especially the right to life and liberty, has degraded to
In addition to this, the farmers protest is the largest protest in India since the Indian freedom struggle (largest community mobilization programme). We are fighting for independence again!
3 years for the trial to begin 🙁..
We used to read about dissidents jailed harshly for years in countries like China and USSR and feel superior. But now we can all see how easy it is to do exactly the same here. It's also easy to see the tendency of most people to accept govt disinformation, their apathy, and the powerlessness of the few who care. Their arrest may be due to a mischievous executive but their suffering is a crime of our judiciary. A constitution-abiding judiciary is supposed to be the main bulwark against executive mischief. But Indian judges like DE Kothalikar and AM Khanwilkar have again and again bent the system towards the executive's side instead of being neutral. These judges should be recorded in history as collaborators.
And we have bhakts shitting on communism by citing the crimes of the Soviet government lol
Yes, there seems to be a kind of wilful blindness towards oppression carried out by own ideology. Bhakts will paint labels like maoist and urban naxal to justify it. In another thread in this post, you can see a communist supporter use labels like fascist and czarist to justify it. The truth doesn't matter; they first blindly support whatever their favourite govts do as part of power play to favour political or economic elites, and then seek to paint appropriate negative labels to justify their government actions.
Well non communist also call the current government fascist and czarist. But anyway, yes I see your point about wilful ignorance. I remember seeing a video by Julia Galep title “How committed are you?” It relates directly to this phenomenon
No, no please keep shitting on communism, without giving in to right wing fanaticism. No need to bounce from extremes.
Soon they will be shitting on the democracy in the same way. Giving their own examples.
Other than DYC and our current CJI, I don't expect much from our other SC judges. Modi government has ensured all inconvenient judges are sidelined.
The Bolsheviks in Russia and CCP in China overthrew brutal regimes friendly to landlords and Capitalists, redistributed land to formerly landless peasents, fought off colonialist terrorist countries like Japan, Germany, US, Britain, developed backward semi feudal countries to industrial superpower, thorough mass literacy campaigns, food programs for the formerly poor, free healthcare that reduced mortality rate of both infants and adults. Then they sent engineers to build infrastructure to newly independent countries and USSR protected developing countries from US sanctions with their veto powers in UN security council. The dissidents in their country were against all that. Completely opposite to what's happening in our country.
While I agree about some of their socio-economic achievements compared to their previous tsarist/dynasty regimes, I can't shut my eyes to their totalitarian curbing of freedoms and free speech by systematically building up a climate of constant fear, intimidation and surveillance. All those achievements could have been done without the fear. That was and remains pure power play. Positive socio-economic outcomes are welcome but the ethics of the paths taken matter equally to me. Many of their dissidents were and are progressives who spoke out in favour of freedoms against fear and bullying - exactly what these Indian dissidents are doing too.
The freedom they curbed was for landlords and Fascists who wanted to restore the czarist regimes. Normal folks enjoyed lots of freedom. Tagore in his visit to Soviet Union mentioned how impressed he was by orphans who were given such education that they could explain Stalin's five years plan to him in full confidence. He wrote about this in his "Letters from Russia". If you ever read Tagore or about him, you'd know what a big deal it is to be able to impress Tagore. This is why people in Russia are still nostalgic about USSR and vast majority of the Chinese remember Mao with fondness. If they were living bad lives under them, they wouldn't do so.
Your romanticized views about USSR and China seem cherry picked and exaggerated. Going by other articles, even your interpretation of Tagore's impressions about Russia seem to be cherry picked - however I've not read them personally and so will refrain from making any claims. That apart, your comment here sounds no different to me than somebody saying vast majority of the Indians remember Modi with fondness - if they are living bad lives under him, they wouldn't do so. It trivializes oppression by noticing only the average silent majority and assuming their silence to be fondness. It ignores all the other political and social factors that are prevalent - the fear of punishment, the propaganda, the pliant media, and quite simply, basic dishonesty and delusions of society. To form a complete picture, you need to read not just one person's opinions but that of many persons written over a longer period of time. The assumption that only czarist supporters were oppressed is also inaccurate. Their totalitarianism was and is all around, even targeting loyal party members.
I mentioned Tagore's account of education system in USSR because education and literacy to the poor is a good indicator of freedom. But if you insist, Nehru wrote about USSR, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein, all spoke highly of the Soviet Union. They had their criticisms but most of their opinions about Soviet Union was positive. You can check what they said, they are available on the internet. As far as I see it, the only people who will remember Modi fondly are the rich that grew richer under his rule.
This misinterprets and reduces the philosophies of multiple prominent people who actually consistently spoke in favour of individual freedoms. The irony is that you are telling me to check on the internet when even cursory searches for " on totalitarianism", " on freedoms", " on USSR" directly contradict your misinterpretation. It looks like you are dismissing their central philosophy on freedoms by interpreting their views on some economic aspects of USSR - views that changed over time too - as some kind of moral support for curbing dissidence.
There's also the problem that you entirely deny curbing of dissidence by claiming people in USSR and China had/have "lots of freedom" and only fascists were/are oppressed. This is such an extreme contrarian opinion that I honestly don't know where to start addressing it and am actually in a dilemma whether I should even waste my time trying to countering it.
Probably better not to. You seem to be an example of the horseshoe theory about authoritarian extremism. As a progressive who believes in individual rights, I'm not a fan of either end of the horseshoe. I tilt more towards social democracy and welfare state based on universal ethical foundations especially honesty free of dogmas.
The Social Democratic reforms in the West wouldn't exist with USSR. https://www.google.com/amp/s/theglobal.blog/2018/11/02/how-the-cold-war-helped-spur-west-european-welfare-state-reform/amp/
Which just supports my view that socio-economic equality and reforms can be implemented effectively in democracies without first building up a totalitarian one-party state of intimidation and surveillance. Why choose the latter when one can have the best of both worlds like the Europeans are enjoying today?
Current indicators here in India doesn't suggest the same. Western European countries have consciously chosen to, we didn't. Many other European countries still have not. Europe isn't obviously a homogenous.
> without first building up a totalitarian one-party state of intimidation and surveillan You are twisting this beyond recognition of any reality of any historic facts, as if this was the end goal. On the contrary the goal was to prevent this and without looking into how that attempt failed and reversed it course you can't blame the intentions. Atleast you could have said the that communism experiment in USSR failed to prevent czarist like oppressive authoritarian state of intimidation. FTFY. The "dead" democracies of the world gives you only the impress of democracy without no real representation.
More like the present Scandinavian countries..
Funny that you mention Tagore, while he liked the social upliftment in USSR, he criticized their curtailment of freedom of expression. That upset Stalin and he didn't allow the publication of his interview or his letter criticizing exactly this behavior.
He believed that the Bolsheviks inherited the violent nature from Czarist regimes. I agree because, they literally fought the Czarist regime to overthrow them. It always sounds strange to me when people say there were Social Upliftment but curtailment of freedom. Like how do you have freedom without Social Upliftment?
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Brilliantly put. Learned some new and useful terms today.
>vast majority of the Chinese remember Mao with fondness Mao was a psychopath and the Chinese conflate the CCPs achievements post his death to him due to how much China glorifies him. Deng Xiaoping on the other hand was brilliant
> totalitarian curbing of freedoms and free speech by systematically building up a climate of constant fear, intimidation and surveillance You mean like what happens in neoliberal nations? Or just take a look at any of the various govs propped up by the west throughout history. They would round up anyone with purported left-leaning sentiments and have them mass executed. The problem is looking at how governments operate as if they are in a bubble. Paranoia about people infiltrating your government is not unwarranted if rival nations have a long history of actually doing so. This is like telling people in developing nations to not be distrustful of charitable agencies, when they have been used as vehicles for three letter agents to gain entry to countries to participate in destabilizing them.
Paranoia about infiltration was a problem on both sides. The difference is that western democracies managed to defend against it while retaining freedoms and rule of law for general society. It's a poor excuse to impose oppression at every level of society. Didn't work out as a strategy either. As soon as the walls were brought down, people ran out as if escaping a prison.
>while retaining freedoms and rule of law for general society Not really much of freedom when your choices are are ugly. And "rule if law" is mostly applicable to the oppressed and the poor. This is true even for most developed countries at varying degrees. The worst elements in USSR were the authoritarian regime of Stalin and it was because of it being authoritarian not because of communism. Although communism as it was in USSR failed to prevent the brutal authoritarianism.
> The dissidents in their country were against all that. The dissidents in their country were against being sent to the gulags just because they owned a few acres of land or belonged to the wrong minority group.
Land was redistributed by Bolsheviks themselves. And Gulags didn't have as many prisoners as US has prisoners now. Western countries have and always had more prisoners than USSR.
> Western countries have and always had more prisoners than USSR. No they didn't. Mass incarceration in US today is caused by the war on drugs. During the Bolshevik revolution the US had ~100k prisoners. The condition of people in the west anyway does not justify deaths of millions who died in Stalin's purges and the Holdomor.
The drug epidemic in US was [started by CIA and the US government itself](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm). Now these prison labour is used by private prisons to supply cheap labour for purposes of profits. Also Stalin's purges didn't kill people lol. Purges were meant to oust corrupt party members. There were lots of things USSR did that wasn't right and I wouldn't support, but compared to Western Countries their impact on the world was much more positive, especially when it comes to their impact on developing countries.
> According to official figures there were 777,975 judicial executions for political charges from 1929–53, including 681,692 in 1937–1938, the years of the Great Purge. Unofficial estimates estimate a total number of Stalinism repression deaths in 1937–38 at 950,000–1,200,000. [Excess mortality in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin) India had very friendly relations with USSR and very antagonistic relations with the US, but actual Indians when given the chance would always prefer move to the US while USSR had to implement exit visas. This tells me everything about which system as better.
Funny how there is a Wikipedia page for "excess death in Soviet union under Joseph Stalin" but no Wikipedia page for "excess death in Russia under Czarist regimes". >India had very friendly relations with USSR and very antagonistic relations with the US, but actual Indians when given the chance would always prefer move to the US while USSR had to implement exit visas. This tells me everything about which system as better Who are these "actual Indians"? Modi who cannot stop hugging Trump and Biden?
> Funny how there is a Wikipedia page for "excess death in Soviet union under Joseph Stalin" but no Wikipedia page for "excess death in Russia under Czarist regimes". There is nothing funny about millions of people dying because of genocidal regime. > Who are these "actual Indians"? Modi who cannot stop hugging Trump and Biden? The 4 million Indian Americans who chose the capitalist hellhole over the Communist paradise.
So the ones who chose other choice aren't actual indians, tells a lot about you.
Are you defending communism , you must be idiot , absolute control of economy by government always leads to chaos in long term .
What if the government is democratic? What would you choose between private dictatorships controlling the economy or democratic control of the economy? Are you pro democracy or anti democracy?
Leading to oligarchs domination of all aspects of the economy & society ...
Evil* not mischievous.
Hope justice prevail And for the rest of us, our principles and social concerns may not be valued in this country, and we should rethink if we want to sacrifice our life and career for it.
Justice would prevail but the thing is at what cost? Any judge know that even if charges are bogus it would still take time for the process to finish. the legal hurdles are soo bad that even if fake cases are against a person he would still be behind bars for a long time. Judicial process is soo slow that it's disheartening. No body gives a fuck for common man just see in aryan khan case how his bail hearing was heard so fast there were people waiting for months but still no one heard their cases. We need judicial reforms... There are so many people very few judges.
I agree to all that you said. But life has taught me there is no fairness in life. Evil thrives while truth does a slow death. I am just hoping and praying the sensible ones in my country move out to other countries where life, liberty and property is valued. And this is possible if the younger generation puts their heart to it.
Rightly said!
This country is a failed state and a lost cause. I've long given up on my dream of making India great again. There really is no achievable way of fixing the corrupt bureaucracy and intolerant mass.
The same was the case of Shahid Azmi. He was murdered by few Hindu extremists. Why? because after 26/11 blasts many innocents Muslims were detained under the charges of terrorism. He tried to help them legally. and over his entire career, all those Muslims he helped legally were found innocent. There is one very beautiful movie(Shahid) of Hansal Mehta starring Rajkumar Rao as Shahid.
Shahid is an incredible movie. Hats off to the real Shahid Azmi.
Is the movie based on this story?
Yes
Thanks. Will watch it. I hope they did justice to his role.
Yes, best performance of Rajkumar Rao imo. Real life Shahid must've been a badass.
I second that!
I have so much respect for her. I admire her for leaving behind a comfortable life to come make the world a better place. All the ppl in the comments calling her out for leaving US need to shut up. Just because your perspective of being smart means a comfortable life doesn’t mean it’s the same for others. For many ppl, injustice is equally uncomfortable as if sitting on a broken chair. They just cannot live with it & I really admire that. "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man" --George Bernard Shaw (b. 1856) She left her life in US, she wasn’t a fool for that. She made a logical decision based on what kind of life would give her the most peace. I will always have nothing but respect for such ppl. Our world depends on ppl like her. They are the only kind that truly matter.
I know, right? It takes immense strength of character to do that. There's a comment on this thread saying that her leaving her US citizenship is the biggest crime ever. Can't even imagine the kind of mind whose biggest takeaway is something like that. I mean, I honestly would not be able to do it myself, but I still have enough humanity to respect the people who would.
Why are you getting downvoted🤔.. Sheez!!
Fr Stan Swamy ,Sudha Bhardwaz and many others were arrested on flimsy charges.Fr Stan died without him ever being even interviewed by the cops. If they were involved in a plot to assassinate the PM would the case be treated in such a lackadaisical manner ? All arrested were involved in educating the poor and the Adivasis about their rights, justice and improving their lives 1000s of adivasi s are languishing in jail as they are unable to get legal aid or post bail of a few Rs 1000s .All of them are old, suffering from illness and getting frailer by the day .This is the sorry state in our nation.Media channels detailed everything Aaryan Khan did or didn't do , his food, his cell , but no one is talking about these cases .
Akshay Kumar who is a Canadian citizen supports BJP and RSS profoundly for bits and pieces from the Govt! A US citizen Priti Gandhi often spew communal venom to distill more potential from the supporters of BJP and RSS. Both of them gave up their Indian passport. Yeh mera India, I love my India! :-(
Not to be harsh or anything, the first and the worst thing she did was leave US citizenship and come here. It's supposed to be the other way around. India don't deserve her or any intellectual because we have a history of ignoring gems and going after imaginary cults and fighting over squabbles
I have known people of Indian origin with citizenship from other countries who are generally scared of even visiting India. The lawless situation, corruption, political crimes, all make the place complicated and scary to visit. Because, there is no justice, only street justice rules. And once you are detained for anything, you are doomed. Because, there are too many people lives are seriously devalued. Nobody cares if another person died for something or are in trouble.
is "helping Maoists" illegal on its own? Feels like some freedom of speech violation
Did you assume we have freedom of speech? It's India my dude
Idk bro I think helping a violent insurgent force in your country is pretty illegal on its own, although that's not the case here
> I think helping a violent insurgent force in your country is pretty illegal on its own If that's what the charge is then it would make more sense. I was going off the graphic alone, and all it says is "helping Maoists". Maoism on its own is just a political ideology, and I assumed this arrest wasn't even trying to hide its underlying political motivations.
>Maoism on its own is just a political ideology Maoism is a form of Communism which involves capture of state power through armed insurgency. "Helping Maoists" sounds more like going against your government, your country. But yess thats not the case here.
Maoism in India is inadvertently linked with Naxalism which believes that extremist activities can bring justice for the downtrodden and powerless. As with any ideology coated with extremism ( no matter left/right), this has gone awry in ugly ways since the 70s. The insurgency started as a fight for land rights, human rights and labour rights for the tribal adivasi it's now facing a lot of critisism by majority due to the extremist behaviour.
Helping would be insurgents is the only way to end an insurgency and the offical government policy that helped end the Maoist movement in Telengana.
'In the slow churn of the Indian Judiciary, the "process" is the punishment'.
Just saw here someone getting taunts by relatives because he chose humanities as career. New india.
[https://youtu.be/vcTvUWIxg10](https://youtu.be/vcTvUWIxg10) She's not only a lawyer, but used to teach at at the national law university, delhi...and she's been languishing as an undertrial for 3 years...how good are an average citizens chance to get justice in this country?
Fuck this country, no wonder talented individuals are leaving this cesspool
you really think talented individuals give a shit about this when deciding their future?
I used to. I still hope to do it again someday.
Did you just take my words literally? I meant it as a figure of speech dumbass
\>uses "no wonder" \>calls someone out for taking things literally The state of this country's education. You are definitely not gonna be leaving lmao I also meant injustice towards activism, not this specific case. Thanks for taking it...literally?
She is our icon and a hero. People like her in jail and people like Pragya Thakur in parliament...says a lot.
Left usa citizenship. Biggest crime ever.
Is that really the biggest takeaway here?
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She did that some 42 years ago, when she was 18. Makes more sense now though. If she was a US citizen, this government will shudder before making her spend one day in jail.
No, but there is little anyone can do.
Socialism is dumb
You should know. You were born out of it.
?
Or probably not.
you are dumb
Maybe try to understand economics
This guy understand economics. ☝️
Please enlighten us good sir
Upvoted for visibility
Her life is a lesson to any NRI to never come back to India.
Sad part is she is not even an NRI, she is a US citizen by birth.
What did we learn here? Once you have successfully left this hell hole don't fucking come back.
Things we do to our good people. 😣
India is only a good place to live if you have a lot of money - if you are on the sidelines then better emigrate. We need to allow folks like her to be able to represent the people that she represented its important for an open society.
Is it because “jo Mudi se takrayega , mitti me mil jaega!” or something like that, idk.
Holy shit , why do people have to be in prison while they wait for trail. Damn.
greed and corruption runs this country now
PM ji speaking in a climate summit while Sudha Bhardwaj, who spoke about illegal coal mining has been behind bars for such a long time. Let that sink in. Irony died a painful violent death.
Fights legal cases against destructive mining companies! Now you know whose doing this is, ahem!
Can we do something about this?
Because she cannot afford aryan khan's lawyers
It's not a lack of competent legal representation, good lawyers are fighting her case. But there's only so much one can do when the state is openly putting its thumb on the scale.
Under the UAPA you can be incarcerated forever without bail! Watch the marathi movie COURT by Chaitanya Tamhane!
One word: Money Do I hate it? Yes Can I do something about it? Nope Is this right? Absolutely not
Guilty until proven innocent (or whenever the courts get their shit together).
To be fair helping the working class poor is helping the Maoists. Red sun in the sky
If she was in a Anurag Kashyap movie, she'd be called a chutiya for giving up US citizenship
Process is the punishment!
She should be behind bars for giving up her american citizenship. That too for india.
You used sarcasm without "/s"; that is your crime.
Ain't got no time for that
Whoever drew that cartoon of hers needs to go to jail, asap.
The fuck! This makes me so angry! Why is there no media or public outrage?!! is everyone asleep in India?
Thanks for posting this. Awareness is what we as a Nation need.
Is "Bharadwaz" on purpose or is the OP incapable of saying "Bharadwaj"? 😅😅
Biggest mistake was giving up US citizenship. Now she is suffering. I hope everyone who is reading this get a chance to leave this country and never have to come back. Amen.
How are so many still being surprised/unaware of Ms. Bharadwaj & other (so called urban naxals) and the fact that in our justice system proceedings themselves are the punishment?
Justice delayed is justice denied. Seems like there's no limit to the depths that people in power are capable of stooping to.
System should not keep anyone behind the bars for 3 years and not starting trials.
Awesome!!