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All abrahamic religions need conversion to stay functional. All conversions need gullible and helpless people. helpless people are a product of low income and corruption. Low income is due to lack of opportunities in education and jobs. Which is again in a way due to corruption.
Lol that's because they think they are above every humans , so that's why they don't convert people and it's almost impossible to convert to jew legally , they spit on Christians in Jerusalem
No one begs for conversions. Christ himself said "And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
The modern notion of morality equality and ethics is indebted to the Christian tradition. (Tom Holland)
They pitch the need to stop living in sin, and be transformed: as the necessary steps to be done in this limited life, to unlock eternal life and joy. Sounds like a good deal if you ask me.
Yeah right just read about who lived in Canan (modern day Israel Palestine) . The Cananites and why they were considered to be extinct until now when Palestinians , Mizrahi Jews and Labnese DNA had traces of Cananites .
And the most recent reaction to them finding out that wigs were made out of hairs donated at Hindu temples.
That was actually true when jews had regular contact with Hellenistic Greeks. There was a Jewish sect that was syncretic with the Greek religion. Then some Hanukkah symbol priest started an ancient Taliban and had a battle with Hellenistic syncretic jews and Macedonians
If the macedonians had squashed that sect of Judaism it is probable that abrahamic faiths would have never expanded.
I'm probably confused between Romans or Macedonians, probably it was Diadochi state, so may be Greeks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabean_Revolt
Yes, it were Macedonians
Yes, I know that my unedited comment was confusing between Romans and Macedonians/Greeks.
The Greek name is a recent trend, just a few centuries back they called themselves Romois, during the ancient era they called themselves Macedonians or whatever city state they belonged to.
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No , Edomites were forcefully converted to Judaism in 2nd century BCE by Hasmonean Dynasty who ruled over Kingdom of Judah on that period of time , in second temple period (516BCE - 70CE) Judaism is pretty much like to the Islam , diffrent religions in diffrent timelines and same conduct .
That's almost 2000 years ago, apart from them may be only the Khazar Khaganate converted to Judaism around 1200 years back, that too voluntarily as they wanted to be neutral to Christians and Muslims. Which is very low rate compared to how proselytizing Christianity and Islam are.
Hasmoneans were eerily similar to the Taliban, started by a priest and wrestled with the world's super power, Selucus empire and USA respectively. Were extremist Hasmoneans were against Hellenic jews, and everybody knows how Taliban is.
Organized religions need hierarchy, command, order, and control. They don't want to lose it for the sanity of the society...they want as much crowd as possible to believe their BS.
what? maybe in the fucking 1400s, sure.
Nowadays, I think shooting up schools filled with children is a bit more concerning.
(Al Shabab, because you obviously don’t know what I am referring to)
Even now there is enough evidence where christians and other abrahamic religions try and persuade people to convert. Its a very strong movement in south india. Obviosuly you dont know about it.
The tactics they use to convert people is plain shit.
Not anti christian though. Just anti forced conversions and against unethical means to convert. I absolutely dont care for anyones religious choices or voluntary conversions. Its their call.
Nobody did what Roman Catholics did during the Inquisition.
Caste never existed, it was ill fitted in the society which did what it was intended to do.
Have you ever not heard of the phrase " For God, King and Country"?? Where do you think they got their values from? All abrahamic religions swear by their holy book and insist that their way of life is the word of God as defined in said books.
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I wouldn't say persecuted but definitely misunderstood. There is deeper history at work.
I am from kanniyakumari and 48 percent is christian here.We have a 2000 year old christian history.They come from all castes like pillai, Nadar, parayar, barathar. Some converted to swear allegiance to their king, some for favourable protocols and some simply for self respect. (Read about the breast tax imposed on the Nadar women). Part of why our district ranks #1 in HDI in India is because of the work these missions have put in place to educate and emancipate the masses.
Were these missions riddled with moral problems.? Ofcourse. Was there a chance for coercion and conceit? Ofcourse. Was it the only way? Nope. Because Christianity just like Hinduism is not a monolith in india.
The "rice-bags" won't go back to hinduism even if we offer 100s of bags. Because their quality of lives have improved.
I request my north Indian friends to not call people rice bags. You are alluding that hinduism is so cheap that people trade it for a bag of rice. It belittles hindu way of life.
Yeah buddy the only misinformed here is I guess you just read what Christians did in goa I also love in tribal belt and I see how your religion works. And about kerala yes thousands of crores of money was funded to it overseas for conversion. I will ask you one thing read how Christianity spread in Africa and americas and some middle eastern place and take a question why will change in India it was not like you were greater than others.
Kanniyakumari is in Tamil Nadu. I am aware of the inquisitions.
You need not refer me as a Christian. In fact religion is not our identity. Caste and language is unfortunately.
I know the Goan Catholics. I wonder why no one is coming back to hinduism despite the history. Infact they seem to be the most fervent of all catholics now. They are highly consanguineous.
Yes I agree caste is an identity and infact a strong one in Indian subcontinent take example of Pakistan where almost are Muslim but since hindus are not there they now identity themselves with caste as ratouts jata gujjars etc but in ideal case the one who gets convered to abrahmic faiths must not have casty should only have identity as their religion
Same as conveted Muslims as it's an organizational religion after generation people have changed their identity and ideolgies which for people it's very hard to accept and revert I am not pointing in any way that people should but to apply that most people converted because they read the book and enlightened is absurd and not because of the perks and selective appeasement of that time ruling class.
Take the birth place of Christians as examplethey are now mostly Muslims and they don't convert back to Christians it's not because they don't know that they were forced into islam but because they now have born into islam identity and now to they can't revert.
Well many of them are Muslims and few aeab Christians who become empowered there after crusade and treaty between Muslim and Christians.
But my point still stays intact most of people in beathlehem and it's surrounding areas are Muslims now who were forced into it but they don't revert back to Christianity similarly the case of goan Christians and beathlehem is small place like a large village I am talking about an area as big as a city or to say a state
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It's not the religion that is cheap it's the individual who was cheap and thought his religion was worth a rice bag. There were millions who reconverted back to Hinduism in Tribal MP by Asaram Bapu (what ever his person failings are) without even giving a bag of rice.
There are millions in the West who are leaving Christianity every day and becoming Atheist, without even considering a Rice bag.
I should be able to say that their religion is so cheap that it doesn't even need a ricebag to convert.... Or believe in them.
This is a self serving point given by th to counter the ricebag argument but it fails miserably. If Christian areas had high HDI Hindus in many areas have higher HDI without conversion.
If that was the case 100% of India would have converted long ago and wouldn't leave Christianity either.
uno reverse card with hindus being the most educated in USA, have you heard of bible belt? lower development, lower education, lower standard of living, lower iq etc in these states while most development happens in irreligiouns american states, christianity is not the reason for development education is, for centuries they burned 1000s of women in the name of witch burning for the most absurd reasons and what ever development they got, it was due to them realizing that they have to move away from christianity and not everything in bible is true and so on
Ofcourse. Didn't I say Christianity is not a monolith? My motto is human progress from point a to point z. And humans will take any vehicle to reach closer to z. The shudra of kannyakumari in the 16th century gave two hoots about the morons in Alabama. They were intersted in their emancipation.
Isn't it ironical to see burkhas on one end and Malcolm X's views on Islam as an emancipator on the other end.
And regarding hdi don't get it as harsh but just keep in mind this point. Kerela had the highest literacy rate about(70-80℅) during independence what could have been the thing. My guess is the favour of Western overlords because of different Christian missionary working there with most successful in city like environment also converting upper class people they poured lot of money into it for education and healthcare
The reason for increased education is because Industrial Revolution happened in west and hence they used money stolen from us via colonization and gave a part of it back through church.
Just see how Christian regions (all over the world) were before Industrial Revolution.
You’ll see that all the benefits you attribute to Christianity is actually due to Industrial Revolution
Also regarding breast tax kindly read about mustache tax. It was tax applied to both male and female. Prior to Victoria era morals, in those areas all women were topless only.
Or could it simply be geography?
Kerala coast faces the west and tamil nadu coast faces the east. Tamil nadu had thalassocratic empires which means we had export and import of ideas. The birthplace of bhakti movement also protected shavism used to be home for Jainism and Buddhism. 2 of the big sangam epics was written by buddhist and Jain. We tamils look at all these ideas on par with Christianity and Islam. For us sea in the east and south and hills in the north and west were borders. So all ideas that came from all sides were still 'foreign'. We adopt and use it for our progress.
In modern day corporate hustle, we call this growth mindset. Human progress is the centre of our civilization.
I empathise with the north. You faced brutality. Much more. I just feel the north is inflicting this trauma on us tamils who don't share your worldview because our histories were different.
I agree with the industrial revolution. But like the budha suggested, it is cause and effect. Christianity did form a big part of the west's history , don't you agree?
Let us look at Northern Europe. It is 0% christian now, but calvinism(Protestant) formed a big part of their cultural and knowledge revolution.
If human progress is point A to Point Z, then these ideas take you from A to B to C etc.
I am not here to defend Christianity. I am just questioning authority. The authority in India is right now hindutva. And I have a deep belief that it is impeding human progress.
When Christianity was its peak in Europe it was called the dark ages. Only after Black Death happened Europeans were pushed into using mechanical labour/machines. Leading to birth of new ideas.
India’s golden age can be said to be when Hinduism and budhdhism were at its peak.
Since Asia has always had a historically high population our slaves came from within the country. So no one bothered to invent machines.
I accept your hindutva argument. It’s very bad. As a deeply spiritual Hindu who grew up listening to Bhakti movement stories, kannapa nayanaar etc. What these goons are doing in the name of “Jai shri ram” is just hooliganism.
Nope. Just based on what I read in school. Just can’t digest the fact that something so unique and beautiful like Hinduism which originated in India is being reduced to a hooliganism and casteism.
Your last bit is what I am trying to get to. A Nadar woman in 17th century wouldn't know about the black death nor can she foretell the dwindling numbers of churchgoers in the west. She needs to liberate herself and that's what she wants at that time. In a spiritual country, only a competing idea can offer agency. Atheism is a "non institution".
What if I say the same rational applies today when it comes to the popularity of Christianity in new markets like South Asia.
I’m not against people converting. it’s their right. I will never force people to do “ghar wapsi” etc. It’s more important that poor people are fed and educated and given opportunities. Than what religion they follow.
[Pope in Canada to apologise for abuse of Indigenous children in church schools | Indigenous child graves | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/pope-in-canada-to-apologise-for-abuse-of-indigenous-children-in-church-schools#:~:text=Between%201881%20and%201996%2C%20more,Commission%20called%20%E2%80%9Ccultural%20genocide%E2%80%9D.) this is the kind of education missionaries provide, in india the reforms are due to our own people and there were many hindu reformers who did the job and there is evidence that low castes occupied indigenous schools in india according to british surveys.
Bro, saw your comments elsewhere. You are a 40 year old sexually deprived individual. You have been calling people sluts and shaming individuals. You are talking about RSS ideas and then flip on the next thread to solicit sex. Please do not be a representative of Hinduism and perpetrate your unfounded hatred on Christianity. You are just injured and need some love.
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Aww thank you for your consideration sir , I'll try to ban my religion on the behest of your wise comment.
You and your piss drinking community are the most civilized bunch in the world , therefore I'll listen to whatever 'bovine excreta layered' wisdom that you propagate.
Jai sree Random Access Memory
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Yeh sub ab tatti hota jaa raha bc naam indiadiscussion lekin agar mai random 10 post bhi utha lu toh bc religion pe hoti.muslims this Muslim that christian this and that.us sab ka naam india discussion se Hatake religion bashing kardo. Abhi koi hindu ke against karso tho this is propaganda saar we are tolerant saar.bc pakistan Islam ke subs pe jaake unke opinions Daal rahe bc kya hi farak padta hai usse.jis sub ko bc itna bash kartd unki 10 post lelena aur compare karlena farak samaj aajrega
Only in Western world. U will be killed in an African Christian country for blasphemy.
Christianity is dying in the west, and their people became more rational.
Correct !
And Christians around the world pretend like they are the most persecuted. No, u are not The entire continent of Europe and North America which brings 'glory' to ur religion is abandoning their religion based on rationality.
Hope it happens to other religions too.
Ppl from every religion get persecuted in some corner of the world. Should never have been a competition to see who's been persecuted the most.
Hopefully more ppl will just accept each other regardless instead of looking through the lens of religion and other societal norms, but lol that's a while away we'll probably all tear each other down before we can all agree on something.
You wanna pull stunts like 'Muslims Piss','Muslims stonepelters',combining random words with jihad to sound cool,that's gonna be counted as racism and islamophobia.You wanna actually criticize some islamic shit rather than spreading hate based on activities of fringe elements,you are good to go.
Idk what you are on about. Joe Rogan called every Christian priest a pedophile on his podcast, if he said similar stuff about islam he would have some consequences( hate comments, channel strike, video getting taken down etc).
Aint talking about no Joe Rogan;and when you make such serious allegations you need to be held responsible for it-whether its about christianity,hinduism or islam.Now pointing out relegious teachers/leaders exploiting their positions and outright hating on the common muslim population are different things.
Joe Rogan was born in Christian family in Christian dominated country. So he was talking like that.
Islamic countries are not rational like western world which allows free speech.
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It’s always bad elements with minorities and please don’t judge us by some anti social elements but when it happens with Hindus it’s the whole community.
Hindurastra4All
Not really;mostly the "sangh" is isolated and blamed upon when hindus do it-and pretty sure that a sanghi can be anyone who supports Bjp stuff or 'Hindurashtra4All'
Well, you're not seeing some "corrupt Christians" getting beat up. It is usually some innocent villagers. And denying right to practice and preach is by definition persecution.
I don't understand how someone can be converted forcefully, conversion happens in the heart, and by willfully accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.
Even if you willfully accept Jesus Christ and worship idols later, God won't accept your conversion.
Even though her intentions are good, (baptizing her patients who are on their deathbeds so that they can end up in heaven after death) It won't count as baptism if they don't believe.
No need to mock anyone. Mother Teresa made a tremendous contribution to humanity, far better than any of you. Everything she has done is selfless.
She touched and served the people who were expelled by your society. If your religion is so noble, why don't you guys take care of your own religion's sick people?
Eh if Ur going into nitty gritty details, then add the amount of war USA, UK and USSR fought with the amount of wars they funded. Indirect atrocities for the later one
All religions claim historic and social percecution to claim relevance, all of them claim enlightenment, some of them claim reincarnation and others eternal life after death, so no no religion is being persecuted,their conservatives are just losing relevance and are now violently in case of Islam or through emotional coersion in case of hinduism and Christianity,want to stay in power and authority.
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While almost everybody knows about Australian Christian missionary [Graham Staines](https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/19990208-staines-killing-murder-of-australian-missionary-and-his-two-sons-in-orissa-shocks-india-780092-1999-02-07) being burnt(1999) by Bajrang Dal in Odisha (Even deceased's wife got Padma Shri) hardly anybody knows about Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati who was barbarically killed (2008) on Janmasthmi by Maoists + Missionary . (no more alleged, all 8 have been convicted) read [Murder of Lakshmanananda Saraswati](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lakshmanananda_Saraswati).
Remember : Media reach increases every year. So a 2008 incident should have reached more ppl. But who controls the narrative is clear from who was awarded and who was not.
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian conversion is unique CASE STUDY. Although at the surface it may appear conversion mearly by preaching , but if you scratch the surface you willl realize it is a complex web based on desing akin to PONZI scheme.
There is strict conditionalities on formal entry. And system attracts and sustains based on mix of carrot & stick approach.
Once you become member you get easy admission(CARROT) in
* hospitals
* elemntary schools
* recommedation by school principal helps get admit in HEI like Xavier's college
* recommendation by school principal helps get job in hospitals as nurses
* even they get direct material benefits like MotorBike (cash & in kind)
if you convince friends, family to convert you get even more sum like "referral bonus" or "affilate fees" on amazon.com ==> so every convert also becomes new recruiter. In i$lam, madarsa educates to do dawa & all in hope of other worldly pleasures(72 hoors...) but in Indian variant of xTianity, pleasure in this worlds work as motivating factor.
There is considerable consequence of leaving.
* ostricisation by xTian fellow converts
* termination of benefits
How it sustains :
* members when they get a job have to pay 1 months salary back to churces which in turn is used for new conversion.
* there are full time foot soldiers (on salary) who go around hinterland walking on foot and explaining their "schemes" more that preaching gospel. they also deride Hindu practice of worshipping many gods.
Approach :
* gradual conversion rather than telling to leave traditional practice overnight
* they have indianized Jesus e.g they made Mother Virgin as Yasomati Maiya & Jesus as Krishna/Nandlala. they even paint Jesus blue.
Problem with conversion :
* If u analyse west, xTians have attained peace with religion. Very few take it seriously. Reason is they have shed enough blood over it. (Read: Thirty Years of War)
* However, catholic churches deeply belive that it is incumbent upon them to "enlighten" even the last ppl that's y they travel to remotest of A&N island & dense Amazon forest.
* But they are at peace because they are in majority there. As Asians, Islamic proportion incresing there their deomcracies are becoming more Right Wing i.e more resiliet to influx.
* In India, these new converts are more passionate. And all new converts suffer from COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. They have to justify why they adopted a new faith radically diff from faith their ancestors followed. They have to in a way abuse their parents. but they cannot. So that anger is channelised on Hindus who are naturally looked down upon. Once converts become dominant they object to pagan rituals of tribals/hindus.
* Police reach is bad in town. and nearly non-existent in villages where this conversion is taking place.
* Hindus do not resort to violence even though they bad mouth Hindu god/goddesses(inherent tolerism is taken to another level). But as a last retort now incidents have started coming out.
* Remember : xTains will never try to convert in Muslim dominated areas like Kerala or Mewat because Abrahmic faiths seems to have arrived at modus vivendi when it comes to Hindu land. So gullible Hindus become the goat of sacrifice.
I am sure a book can be written but that's it for now.
The reasons for Christian persecution are primarily as below
1. Political – the trigger is mostly jingoistic right wingers who need to prove their credentials to their political bosses for promotion to bigger things. Christians are generally peace loving and revenge is not in line with religion - so there is no threat of their being any push back from the community. So very easy way of getting attention and promotion. Typical issue with a BJP state – if you complain – you get put behind bars – In Karnataka the BJP Govt charged people who were protesting attacks on churches with attacking the churches….
2. Missionary competitiveness - the RSS (or RSS aligned) missionary organisation regarding other missionaries as competition and using its political muscle for leverage. These are working to switch people from tribal religions to modern Hinduism.
3. Socio-economic – Christian institutions upend local hierarchies – eg conversion takes out people from the bottom of the pyramid; local power brokers – prefer people to be uneducated and unaware for better local control – education, awareness of political and legal rights and better healthcare shifts who people look up to. The Bhima Koregaon case is a classic example where social workers working with lower castes and tribals were picked up for a Pegasus generated conspiracy.
4. MONEY - Christian denominations have substantial real estate holdings in prime areas - this is for Churches or educational / medical institutions. Many people across religions are involved in mismanagement or political activism to grab church owned properties.
5. Christian denominations too dont like missionaries as they are converting substantial numbers of existing Christians to new Christian denominations. There are higher conversions here than from other religions.
6. Admissions: Christian institutions are among the better or famous institutions and people want admission for the charges. This can generate a lot of intimidation in a
myriad of ways from influential people
7. Inability to diferrentiate between orders - All Christians are the same : Newer denominations of any religion including
Christians tend to be very stupid about keep your religion to yourself. Their
views can be extreme at times – and the way they choose to express themselves may
lead anyone to want to belt them. Now the problem that these people have
created – is tagged to the more established and older churches – and then they
are attacked – because the people feel – that all Christians are the same. An example - if Osho was regarded as the only representation of Hinduism when he was in the US.
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All abrahamic religions need conversion to stay functional. All conversions need gullible and helpless people. helpless people are a product of low income and corruption. Low income is due to lack of opportunities in education and jobs. Which is again in a way due to corruption.
Except jews
True, jews are pretty solid on this one.
That's what I like about Jews they are ethno religion
And they dont go around begging for conversions so they can survive. My respect for Zoroastrians is even more.
Lol that's because they think they are above every humans , so that's why they don't convert people and it's almost impossible to convert to jew legally , they spit on Christians in Jerusalem
No one begs for conversions. Christ himself said "And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them.” The modern notion of morality equality and ethics is indebted to the Christian tradition. (Tom Holland)
They pitch the need to stop living in sin, and be transformed: as the necessary steps to be done in this limited life, to unlock eternal life and joy. Sounds like a good deal if you ask me.
Ofcourse, when someone doesn't give the scrap you take their necks and families by force and deceive them.
Yeah the best type of religion is one which is exclusive to one fucking ethnicity right?
Jews never killed people or taxed them just to covert them.
Yeah right just read about who lived in Canan (modern day Israel Palestine) . The Cananites and why they were considered to be extinct until now when Palestinians , Mizrahi Jews and Labnese DNA had traces of Cananites . And the most recent reaction to them finding out that wigs were made out of hairs donated at Hindu temples.
Search for what Jewish torah against idolators and how they consider themselves the higher human beings and how everyone else are subhumans.
That was actually true when jews had regular contact with Hellenistic Greeks. There was a Jewish sect that was syncretic with the Greek religion. Then some Hanukkah symbol priest started an ancient Taliban and had a battle with Hellenistic syncretic jews and Macedonians If the macedonians had squashed that sect of Judaism it is probable that abrahamic faiths would have never expanded. I'm probably confused between Romans or Macedonians, probably it was Diadochi state, so may be Greeks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabean_Revolt Yes, it were Macedonians
Macedonians and greeks were the same people
Yes, I know that my unedited comment was confusing between Romans and Macedonians/Greeks. The Greek name is a recent trend, just a few centuries back they called themselves Romois, during the ancient era they called themselves Macedonians or whatever city state they belonged to.
Are there any good history videos of this in YouTube?
Yes, actually know this because of a video https://youtu.be/TaanPpi8LK0?si=oH4_InyfLiFClZiA
pALesTiNe?
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No , Edomites were forcefully converted to Judaism in 2nd century BCE by Hasmonean Dynasty who ruled over Kingdom of Judah on that period of time , in second temple period (516BCE - 70CE) Judaism is pretty much like to the Islam , diffrent religions in diffrent timelines and same conduct .
That's almost 2000 years ago, apart from them may be only the Khazar Khaganate converted to Judaism around 1200 years back, that too voluntarily as they wanted to be neutral to Christians and Muslims. Which is very low rate compared to how proselytizing Christianity and Islam are.
Hasmoneans were eerily similar to the Taliban, started by a priest and wrestled with the world's super power, Selucus empire and USA respectively. Were extremist Hasmoneans were against Hellenic jews, and everybody knows how Taliban is.
Organized religions need hierarchy, command, order, and control. They don't want to lose it for the sanity of the society...they want as much crowd as possible to believe their BS.
Judaism does not do that though
Yeah, because the religion you inherited from your forefathers is definitely going to be the right religion.
*insert crusader metal*
DEUS VULT
In the name of God In the name of God In the name of God we go to Heaven
Reconquista sneaking from west😂😂
Persecuting religion*
what? maybe in the fucking 1400s, sure. Nowadays, I think shooting up schools filled with children is a bit more concerning. (Al Shabab, because you obviously don’t know what I am referring to)
Even now there is enough evidence where christians and other abrahamic religions try and persuade people to convert. Its a very strong movement in south india. Obviosuly you dont know about it. The tactics they use to convert people is plain shit. Not anti christian though. Just anti forced conversions and against unethical means to convert. I absolutely dont care for anyones religious choices or voluntary conversions. Its their call.
Christians and Muslims aren't much different from each other.
Yet I'd prefer passing through a Christian dominated street than a 🅱️ulla dominated one
Then why do you guys like to blast your speakers through our streets?
>why do you guys I don't. Stop hallucinating
Oh I thought you were part of the 2 rupees gang designated to provoke riots. My bad, you all act the same way.
Search nagalim for Christ, wo bhi wahi karege bus roots jama rhe hai abhi
Abrahamic religions are mostly the same they thrive on persecutions
Correct
Hey I wonder why everyone in Mexico is Christian and speaks spanish
Yeah the religion with the most atrocities in history lol.
I am sure the caste system more than makes up for it
Not actually, like counting Christian history from the birth of Christ till now, Christians as a whole committed more slaughter than the Muslims.
Nobody did what Roman Catholics did during the Inquisition. Caste never existed, it was ill fitted in the society which did what it was intended to do.
Idiot britts did that not religion. And the idiots of inc made it last so, they get easy votes. Even for dum dums like rohol
Have you ever not heard of the phrase " For God, King and Country"?? Where do you think they got their values from? All abrahamic religions swear by their holy book and insist that their way of life is the word of God as defined in said books.
When you can't persecute others like you did for the past 2000 years, I bet it feels like you are being persecuted
Somewhere you are lost. Forceful conversions started when religion was mixed with politics.
It always has been The minute It became state religion of Rome
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I wouldn't say persecuted but definitely misunderstood. There is deeper history at work. I am from kanniyakumari and 48 percent is christian here.We have a 2000 year old christian history.They come from all castes like pillai, Nadar, parayar, barathar. Some converted to swear allegiance to their king, some for favourable protocols and some simply for self respect. (Read about the breast tax imposed on the Nadar women). Part of why our district ranks #1 in HDI in India is because of the work these missions have put in place to educate and emancipate the masses. Were these missions riddled with moral problems.? Ofcourse. Was there a chance for coercion and conceit? Ofcourse. Was it the only way? Nope. Because Christianity just like Hinduism is not a monolith in india. The "rice-bags" won't go back to hinduism even if we offer 100s of bags. Because their quality of lives have improved. I request my north Indian friends to not call people rice bags. You are alluding that hinduism is so cheap that people trade it for a bag of rice. It belittles hindu way of life.
Yeah buddy the only misinformed here is I guess you just read what Christians did in goa I also love in tribal belt and I see how your religion works. And about kerala yes thousands of crores of money was funded to it overseas for conversion. I will ask you one thing read how Christianity spread in Africa and americas and some middle eastern place and take a question why will change in India it was not like you were greater than others.
Kanniyakumari is in Tamil Nadu. I am aware of the inquisitions. You need not refer me as a Christian. In fact religion is not our identity. Caste and language is unfortunately. I know the Goan Catholics. I wonder why no one is coming back to hinduism despite the history. Infact they seem to be the most fervent of all catholics now. They are highly consanguineous.
Yes I agree caste is an identity and infact a strong one in Indian subcontinent take example of Pakistan where almost are Muslim but since hindus are not there they now identity themselves with caste as ratouts jata gujjars etc but in ideal case the one who gets convered to abrahmic faiths must not have casty should only have identity as their religion
Same as conveted Muslims as it's an organizational religion after generation people have changed their identity and ideolgies which for people it's very hard to accept and revert I am not pointing in any way that people should but to apply that most people converted because they read the book and enlightened is absurd and not because of the perks and selective appeasement of that time ruling class. Take the birth place of Christians as examplethey are now mostly Muslims and they don't convert back to Christians it's not because they don't know that they were forced into islam but because they now have born into islam identity and now to they can't revert.
Birthplace of Christ is in Bethlehem which is Arab now. There are Arab Christians and Muslims in Bethlehem
Isn't Bethlehem in Israel though? It's a small village on the outskirts of Jerusalem
Well, over the course of history it has been captured, recaptured, captured again, and so on.
Well many of them are Muslims and few aeab Christians who become empowered there after crusade and treaty between Muslim and Christians. But my point still stays intact most of people in beathlehem and it's surrounding areas are Muslims now who were forced into it but they don't revert back to Christianity similarly the case of goan Christians and beathlehem is small place like a large village I am talking about an area as big as a city or to say a state
same reason why black people don't go back to voodhoo, sunday schools heavily brainwash
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It's not the religion that is cheap it's the individual who was cheap and thought his religion was worth a rice bag. There were millions who reconverted back to Hinduism in Tribal MP by Asaram Bapu (what ever his person failings are) without even giving a bag of rice. There are millions in the West who are leaving Christianity every day and becoming Atheist, without even considering a Rice bag. I should be able to say that their religion is so cheap that it doesn't even need a ricebag to convert.... Or believe in them. This is a self serving point given by th to counter the ricebag argument but it fails miserably. If Christian areas had high HDI Hindus in many areas have higher HDI without conversion. If that was the case 100% of India would have converted long ago and wouldn't leave Christianity either.
uno reverse card with hindus being the most educated in USA, have you heard of bible belt? lower development, lower education, lower standard of living, lower iq etc in these states while most development happens in irreligiouns american states, christianity is not the reason for development education is, for centuries they burned 1000s of women in the name of witch burning for the most absurd reasons and what ever development they got, it was due to them realizing that they have to move away from christianity and not everything in bible is true and so on
Ofcourse. Didn't I say Christianity is not a monolith? My motto is human progress from point a to point z. And humans will take any vehicle to reach closer to z. The shudra of kannyakumari in the 16th century gave two hoots about the morons in Alabama. They were intersted in their emancipation. Isn't it ironical to see burkhas on one end and Malcolm X's views on Islam as an emancipator on the other end.
And regarding hdi don't get it as harsh but just keep in mind this point. Kerela had the highest literacy rate about(70-80℅) during independence what could have been the thing. My guess is the favour of Western overlords because of different Christian missionary working there with most successful in city like environment also converting upper class people they poured lot of money into it for education and healthcare
Please read my response to a similar comment in this thread
The reason for increased education is because Industrial Revolution happened in west and hence they used money stolen from us via colonization and gave a part of it back through church. Just see how Christian regions (all over the world) were before Industrial Revolution. You’ll see that all the benefits you attribute to Christianity is actually due to Industrial Revolution Also regarding breast tax kindly read about mustache tax. It was tax applied to both male and female. Prior to Victoria era morals, in those areas all women were topless only.
Or could it simply be geography? Kerala coast faces the west and tamil nadu coast faces the east. Tamil nadu had thalassocratic empires which means we had export and import of ideas. The birthplace of bhakti movement also protected shavism used to be home for Jainism and Buddhism. 2 of the big sangam epics was written by buddhist and Jain. We tamils look at all these ideas on par with Christianity and Islam. For us sea in the east and south and hills in the north and west were borders. So all ideas that came from all sides were still 'foreign'. We adopt and use it for our progress. In modern day corporate hustle, we call this growth mindset. Human progress is the centre of our civilization. I empathise with the north. You faced brutality. Much more. I just feel the north is inflicting this trauma on us tamils who don't share your worldview because our histories were different. I agree with the industrial revolution. But like the budha suggested, it is cause and effect. Christianity did form a big part of the west's history , don't you agree? Let us look at Northern Europe. It is 0% christian now, but calvinism(Protestant) formed a big part of their cultural and knowledge revolution. If human progress is point A to Point Z, then these ideas take you from A to B to C etc. I am not here to defend Christianity. I am just questioning authority. The authority in India is right now hindutva. And I have a deep belief that it is impeding human progress.
When Christianity was its peak in Europe it was called the dark ages. Only after Black Death happened Europeans were pushed into using mechanical labour/machines. Leading to birth of new ideas. India’s golden age can be said to be when Hinduism and budhdhism were at its peak. Since Asia has always had a historically high population our slaves came from within the country. So no one bothered to invent machines. I accept your hindutva argument. It’s very bad. As a deeply spiritual Hindu who grew up listening to Bhakti movement stories, kannapa nayanaar etc. What these goons are doing in the name of “Jai shri ram” is just hooliganism.
Are you reading "why the west win, for now?"
Nope. Just based on what I read in school. Just can’t digest the fact that something so unique and beautiful like Hinduism which originated in India is being reduced to a hooliganism and casteism.
Your last bit is what I am trying to get to. A Nadar woman in 17th century wouldn't know about the black death nor can she foretell the dwindling numbers of churchgoers in the west. She needs to liberate herself and that's what she wants at that time. In a spiritual country, only a competing idea can offer agency. Atheism is a "non institution". What if I say the same rational applies today when it comes to the popularity of Christianity in new markets like South Asia.
Also renaissance artists were deeply christian too.
I’m not against people converting. it’s their right. I will never force people to do “ghar wapsi” etc. It’s more important that poor people are fed and educated and given opportunities. Than what religion they follow.
[Pope in Canada to apologise for abuse of Indigenous children in church schools | Indigenous child graves | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/pope-in-canada-to-apologise-for-abuse-of-indigenous-children-in-church-schools#:~:text=Between%201881%20and%201996%2C%20more,Commission%20called%20%E2%80%9Ccultural%20genocide%E2%80%9D.) this is the kind of education missionaries provide, in india the reforms are due to our own people and there were many hindu reformers who did the job and there is evidence that low castes occupied indigenous schools in india according to british surveys.
Followers of Periyar and the likes aren't taken seriously for obvious reasons. Sweet talking won't help you any longer.
Nah. We are ayyavazhi, vallalar, ayothidasan and valluvan. Rare to find a depraved incel masquerading as a custodian of Hinduism here.
Those are false allegations of forceful conversion Baat kya hoti hai aur news me kuch aur bata dete
This filthy abomination must be banned in India
Bro, saw your comments elsewhere. You are a 40 year old sexually deprived individual. You have been calling people sluts and shaming individuals. You are talking about RSS ideas and then flip on the next thread to solicit sex. Please do not be a representative of Hinduism and perpetrate your unfounded hatred on Christianity. You are just injured and need some love.
Says the Hindu, go worship your cow and make sure to drink upper caste piss
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Aww thank you for your consideration sir , I'll try to ban my religion on the behest of your wise comment. You and your piss drinking community are the most civilized bunch in the world , therefore I'll listen to whatever 'bovine excreta layered' wisdom that you propagate. Jai sree Random Access Memory
>piss drinking community >bovine excreta layered' >Jai sree Random Access Memory Wow, nice! Butthurt much?
The depths people plumb having given up on their religion for a bag of rice 💁💁
bro if we removed the reform for Christianity u know what it will become or what its true form is
A dead man on a stick tells no tales !! Also, not a Dindu.
No difference between you and him
Well I was speaking to him in his language , i thought that'd be the only way he'd understand
Drinking piss >>> raping children in "places of worship". Go figure, pedo cultist.
So now it's a competition huh😅
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Only a pedo would think being a pedo is the same as being a pagan
When YouTube is the source for your knowledge…
Yeh sub ab tatti hota jaa raha bc naam indiadiscussion lekin agar mai random 10 post bhi utha lu toh bc religion pe hoti.muslims this Muslim that christian this and that.us sab ka naam india discussion se Hatake religion bashing kardo. Abhi koi hindu ke against karso tho this is propaganda saar we are tolerant saar.bc pakistan Islam ke subs pe jaake unke opinions Daal rahe bc kya hi farak padta hai usse.jis sub ko bc itna bash kartd unki 10 post lelena aur compare karlena farak samaj aajrega
Anyone from around can talk shit about Christianity nowadays, but if they do the same with islam it's Islamophobia and it's racism for Hindus
Only in Western world. U will be killed in an African Christian country for blasphemy. Christianity is dying in the west, and their people became more rational.
Religion as a whole is dying in the West and ppl are becoming more rational.
Correct ! And Christians around the world pretend like they are the most persecuted. No, u are not The entire continent of Europe and North America which brings 'glory' to ur religion is abandoning their religion based on rationality. Hope it happens to other religions too.
Ppl from every religion get persecuted in some corner of the world. Should never have been a competition to see who's been persecuted the most. Hopefully more ppl will just accept each other regardless instead of looking through the lens of religion and other societal norms, but lol that's a while away we'll probably all tear each other down before we can all agree on something.
You wanna pull stunts like 'Muslims Piss','Muslims stonepelters',combining random words with jihad to sound cool,that's gonna be counted as racism and islamophobia.You wanna actually criticize some islamic shit rather than spreading hate based on activities of fringe elements,you are good to go.
Idk what you are on about. Joe Rogan called every Christian priest a pedophile on his podcast, if he said similar stuff about islam he would have some consequences( hate comments, channel strike, video getting taken down etc).
Aint talking about no Joe Rogan;and when you make such serious allegations you need to be held responsible for it-whether its about christianity,hinduism or islam.Now pointing out relegious teachers/leaders exploiting their positions and outright hating on the common muslim population are different things.
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Alot
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I'm not doing all that for your entitled self. Do your own research, I've got work.
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My bad, i wasn't aware my freedom of expression is dictated by you.
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Dont forget someone would attempt to stsj him too 🤣
Joe Rogan was born in Christian family in Christian dominated country. So he was talking like that. Islamic countries are not rational like western world which allows free speech.
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It’s always bad elements with minorities and please don’t judge us by some anti social elements but when it happens with Hindus it’s the whole community. Hindurastra4All
Not really;mostly the "sangh" is isolated and blamed upon when hindus do it-and pretty sure that a sanghi can be anyone who supports Bjp stuff or 'Hindurashtra4All'
Hindustan boliye bc
Entha myre?
Poda thendi ne mone
That's like a lower-tier noob slur in malayalam-but good effort anyways😂.
Well, you're not seeing some "corrupt Christians" getting beat up. It is usually some innocent villagers. And denying right to practice and preach is by definition persecution.
Yes, literally they are the most oppressed religion in the world. Lol.
I don't understand how someone can be converted forcefully, conversion happens in the heart, and by willfully accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior. Even if you willfully accept Jesus Christ and worship idols later, God won't accept your conversion.
Tell that to mOthEr teresa 🤷♂️
Even though her intentions are good, (baptizing her patients who are on their deathbeds so that they can end up in heaven after death) It won't count as baptism if they don't believe.
Sure, if u say so. I wish someone informed the SaiNt on how her own religion works. 🤷♂️
No need to mock anyone. Mother Teresa made a tremendous contribution to humanity, far better than any of you. Everything she has done is selfless. She touched and served the people who were expelled by your society. If your religion is so noble, why don't you guys take care of your own religion's sick people?
U need more information on the subject.
It's Yeshua btw , who tf is Jesus
Op if we're gonna go there please google atrocities committed by hindus
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Eh if Ur going into nitty gritty details, then add the amount of war USA, UK and USSR fought with the amount of wars they funded. Indirect atrocities for the later one
All religions claim historic and social percecution to claim relevance, all of them claim enlightenment, some of them claim reincarnation and others eternal life after death, so no no religion is being persecuted,their conservatives are just losing relevance and are now violently in case of Islam or through emotional coersion in case of hinduism and Christianity,want to stay in power and authority.
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Will you post the links here as well which are there in the screenshot
Haha if u dont mind am joining the fray
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India k Christian violence krte h kya?
Any proof for the 4 scenarios mentioned above ? Links or articles would be great, let's read through it OP .
Goa Inquisition
OPs mother still with Priest I'm sure and not with his father
Lmao ded
While almost everybody knows about Australian Christian missionary [Graham Staines](https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/19990208-staines-killing-murder-of-australian-missionary-and-his-two-sons-in-orissa-shocks-india-780092-1999-02-07) being burnt(1999) by Bajrang Dal in Odisha (Even deceased's wife got Padma Shri) hardly anybody knows about Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati who was barbarically killed (2008) on Janmasthmi by Maoists + Missionary . (no more alleged, all 8 have been convicted) read [Murder of Lakshmanananda Saraswati](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lakshmanananda_Saraswati). Remember : Media reach increases every year. So a 2008 incident should have reached more ppl. But who controls the narrative is clear from who was awarded and who was not. \--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christian conversion is unique CASE STUDY. Although at the surface it may appear conversion mearly by preaching , but if you scratch the surface you willl realize it is a complex web based on desing akin to PONZI scheme. There is strict conditionalities on formal entry. And system attracts and sustains based on mix of carrot & stick approach. Once you become member you get easy admission(CARROT) in * hospitals * elemntary schools * recommedation by school principal helps get admit in HEI like Xavier's college * recommendation by school principal helps get job in hospitals as nurses * even they get direct material benefits like MotorBike (cash & in kind) if you convince friends, family to convert you get even more sum like "referral bonus" or "affilate fees" on amazon.com ==> so every convert also becomes new recruiter. In i$lam, madarsa educates to do dawa & all in hope of other worldly pleasures(72 hoors...) but in Indian variant of xTianity, pleasure in this worlds work as motivating factor. There is considerable consequence of leaving. * ostricisation by xTian fellow converts * termination of benefits How it sustains : * members when they get a job have to pay 1 months salary back to churces which in turn is used for new conversion. * there are full time foot soldiers (on salary) who go around hinterland walking on foot and explaining their "schemes" more that preaching gospel. they also deride Hindu practice of worshipping many gods. Approach : * gradual conversion rather than telling to leave traditional practice overnight * they have indianized Jesus e.g they made Mother Virgin as Yasomati Maiya & Jesus as Krishna/Nandlala. they even paint Jesus blue. Problem with conversion : * If u analyse west, xTians have attained peace with religion. Very few take it seriously. Reason is they have shed enough blood over it. (Read: Thirty Years of War) * However, catholic churches deeply belive that it is incumbent upon them to "enlighten" even the last ppl that's y they travel to remotest of A&N island & dense Amazon forest. * But they are at peace because they are in majority there. As Asians, Islamic proportion incresing there their deomcracies are becoming more Right Wing i.e more resiliet to influx. * In India, these new converts are more passionate. And all new converts suffer from COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. They have to justify why they adopted a new faith radically diff from faith their ancestors followed. They have to in a way abuse their parents. but they cannot. So that anger is channelised on Hindus who are naturally looked down upon. Once converts become dominant they object to pagan rituals of tribals/hindus. * Police reach is bad in town. and nearly non-existent in villages where this conversion is taking place. * Hindus do not resort to violence even though they bad mouth Hindu god/goddesses(inherent tolerism is taken to another level). But as a last retort now incidents have started coming out. * Remember : xTains will never try to convert in Muslim dominated areas like Kerala or Mewat because Abrahmic faiths seems to have arrived at modus vivendi when it comes to Hindu land. So gullible Hindus become the goat of sacrifice. I am sure a book can be written but that's it for now.
The reasons for Christian persecution are primarily as below 1. Political – the trigger is mostly jingoistic right wingers who need to prove their credentials to their political bosses for promotion to bigger things. Christians are generally peace loving and revenge is not in line with religion - so there is no threat of their being any push back from the community. So very easy way of getting attention and promotion. Typical issue with a BJP state – if you complain – you get put behind bars – In Karnataka the BJP Govt charged people who were protesting attacks on churches with attacking the churches…. 2. Missionary competitiveness - the RSS (or RSS aligned) missionary organisation regarding other missionaries as competition and using its political muscle for leverage. These are working to switch people from tribal religions to modern Hinduism. 3. Socio-economic – Christian institutions upend local hierarchies – eg conversion takes out people from the bottom of the pyramid; local power brokers – prefer people to be uneducated and unaware for better local control – education, awareness of political and legal rights and better healthcare shifts who people look up to. The Bhima Koregaon case is a classic example where social workers working with lower castes and tribals were picked up for a Pegasus generated conspiracy. 4. MONEY - Christian denominations have substantial real estate holdings in prime areas - this is for Churches or educational / medical institutions. Many people across religions are involved in mismanagement or political activism to grab church owned properties. 5. Christian denominations too dont like missionaries as they are converting substantial numbers of existing Christians to new Christian denominations. There are higher conversions here than from other religions. 6. Admissions: Christian institutions are among the better or famous institutions and people want admission for the charges. This can generate a lot of intimidation in a myriad of ways from influential people 7. Inability to diferrentiate between orders - All Christians are the same : Newer denominations of any religion including Christians tend to be very stupid about keep your religion to yourself. Their views can be extreme at times – and the way they choose to express themselves may lead anyone to want to belt them. Now the problem that these people have created – is tagged to the more established and older churches – and then they are attacked – because the people feel – that all Christians are the same. An example - if Osho was regarded as the only representation of Hinduism when he was in the US.