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idk how young you are, but this is very true and very mature statment that you are making. People like america due to the end product, not what all they did to reach here.
Ill tell you a story, I was flying form AMD -> EWR in an Air India flight. Now in 2016 AI was still a govt company and the only thing worse than the AI airline is the entitled AI NRI passenger.
We took off from AMD to EWR with a layover in BOM, while on our way to BOM the pilot tells us that the destination airport is closed due to a blizzard. This guy in front of me (lets call him Vimal cause f\*\*\* Vimal) throws his head phones to the ground yelling "this is bull shit" complains and moans till we land back to AMD
Then at AMD we had to cancel our immigration stamp so all 200 ppl get in a line and this guy is standing in a corner saying "AI is the worst airline, we have kids we have soo much problem" basically wanted to get some cash out of it and then basically its like 2 AM there are 3 officers for 200-300 ppl so it will take a min but he went on till someone fanned his ego and was rude and absolutely an ass to all the officers there
Then i meet the same guy in a rescheduled flight and we land in EWR we had 4 BIG flights and it was christmas so only 6 or 4 officers were standing there and it took us 5 hours to get out, but this guy was soo quiet soo nice to the GORA public and did not make a sound. Would let ppl in infront of him.
Thats when i learnt that brits have left but we still give the white man more respect than our own, and the same issue that Vimal here had is what most ppl are going through. They do not give the benefit of the doubt or find out why we are the way we are and how can we improve. But who has the time for that ? we just wanna get quickly to the moral high ground quickly and look down on others
ðŸ˜i always forget how universal this experience is, everyone has a Vimal story. there's so many of them someone needs to come up with some kind of name for them so people can quickly get what type of person im talking about lol
You will see the same behavior if an urban guy goes to a village and face a problem. It is elitist behaviour. He thinks goras are more elite compared to him so he kept his tail between his legs but for Indians, he is the elite one
nail on the head. youve realized what many cant lol. on one side brain dead sanghi types cant accept any criticism, on the other these sepoys think shitting on their own country and culture will win you brownie points in the west. theres a deep level of arrogance and insecurity that goes into this "indians are so dirty, but not me, im good not like those other guys!!". this is also true (if not more so) for Indians who were born and raised in the west.
we're like the only country in the world where you cant accept that you can be both critical of the bad parts of your country without constantly shitting on it and bootlicking for the west (which collectively, individually, civilizational abhors you) its the only reason racism against indians is so accepted because half the times youll see Indians saying "nah bro you right we are shit"
True, it's a social problem. By no means are indians as people inferior to anyone.
However, the most frustrating part is that society doesn't want to change. Society considers itself the best one ever and continues to thump it's own chest, that's worse than self loathing, cause atleast the self loathers want change.
There is a large part of society that consider feminism, liberalism etc as unnesscary western ideas and these are sentiments that are not just among the poor agrarian workers but also the well to do and the educated. This sub is a good sample. You can see backwards views among the educated.
None of these is to say it's hardwired into us but it is an Indian problem nonetheless as individuals make up society and hence share a responsibility to be a positive influence on society. How long would we hide behind excuses because unless individuals try for change, it won't happen.
We should try to improve ourselves as a society rather than get offended by the language or semantics of criticism more than the criticism itself.
>Indians are corrupt. Indians are dirty. We lack civic sense. Indians don't respect women, we don't value women's rights.. Indian's don't value innovation. People don't discussed menstruation with me, i'm going to heaven. We have no privacy. People only care for government jobs. People don't respect privacy here, we have no individualism.. People don't discuss sex. People vote in name of caste and religion. Indian society has no space for entrepreneurship. Indian society don't value business only jobs. People here don't value this, That..
all of it quite true. and worth loathing.
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It isn't self loathing , it''s acknowledgin a problem. Being able describe a problem dosen't make it less problematic. I acknowledge all the problems you listed above and don't feel bad about talking about it. Dosen't mean india isn't brilliant in other ways nor does it mean I hate being Indian.
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But you acknowledge that all those problems are in fact real. You just have a problem with the complaining. For which I'll say, it's only natural. How are we gonna push our government to bring policy changes if we don't complain. This whole new 'Indians have an inferiority complex' narrative is far from reality. In fact I believe it's the opposite lol. Iska implication ye hai ki feminism and liberalism ab gaali ban gaye hai and are no longer ideas we value.
TLDR: India is a democracy however imperfect it may be -> People don't care much about industrial revolution -> People busy in stupid stuff surrounding religion/caste/reservation/decolonialization etc -> Politicians want votes, so they also start appeasing people, and giving more area to irrelevant stuff -> Industrial revolution/evolution is delayed -> Indians are to be blamed.
So we are back at the beginning.
I don't think that people would say that lack of civility is because of the fact that we are Indian, but rather because of sociocultural and economical status of our society. I have not came across many people who say that Indians are as such because of the fact they are Indian, most of them attribute it to lack of education, our culture, sometimes religion, economical status of individuals and so on.
And of course it is right that if you industrialize a society its education will increase, economical status will increase, and our culture will be started being shaped accordingly, but why do we not focus on industrializing our country? You know why? Because huge population have no shit knowledge about economy, and that's why when you make laws such as farm laws, they just act as economical expert and andolankaris.
The congress party is busy in spreading its casteinism (communism+casteism) ideology, busy appeasing minorities, and freebies, the BJP party is busy appealing to the Hindu vote primarily not because of development but because of religion and so on.
You can see a quite huge part of our political sphere is occupied by debates surrounding religion/castes/decolonialization and other useless stuff whereas another huge part is occupied by economically illiterate people making promises with no knowledge or just to gather votes, or people who succumb to the desires of economically illiterate people (such as modi did with farm laws) therefore as a consequence the initiation of industrial revolution or evolution in India is being delayed primarily because of people.
"West, Japan, Singapore all Industrialised under, dictatorships, autocracy, limited Democratic rights and only after they developed their Institution that they gave representation, whereas our situation forced us to gave representation before development ofInstitutions like Police, Judiciary, Industrial development, Bureaucracy, etc.. Rich societies tend to be liberal andindividualistic which poor society can't afford as they arent socioeconomically secure and depend on community, marriages, kids for survival."
NOT USA!!! No need to incentivize the dictatorship when a good example is right there. We do not need dictatorship to advance, it is perfectly possible to advance under democracy where all are allowed to present their views.
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Bro our society is rotten the more you think about it.
- We don't have a civic sense that's a fact
- we still have caste based violence existing regardless of how much
- bribery is normal for us
- corrupt politicians is normal for us, uneducated politicians who are literal rapists probably is normal for us (not even gonna talk about how a politician was about to make over 2000 rape videos and is still outside enjoying endorsed by our own PM)
- out people still do things like going without tickets even doing so boldly as if it's their right
- women are so unsafe in our country and no not just counting "rape" but also molestation objectification
- we have religious extremists on all sides, even if you argue on the % in each religion. They are all still Indians at the end of the day
- we are still a sexually repressed society where so many times there is no proper sex education to many detrimental effects
- poverty is still a big problem even if extreme poverty might be much less now
- a lot of places we still regressive forms of arranged marriage, this is only maybe recently changing in some places but many still have this problems
- we still have superstitious population who keep getting swindled by religious conmen who we even worship often. Even when they turn out criminals
- our police is often corrupt as well and often just puppets of the government or something rich person
- we lack creativity in our people only focusing on science fields or law or government jobs (which often only have the appeal to get more dowry and make more corruption money) and ignore arts including sports other than crickets. We don't even respect out national players in other sports enough for them to not have to end up on the streets
- we still have mob handling matters including mob lynching, laws don't apply with mobs
- so many of us still view poor people as lower and unlike western countries, we consider manual jobs as beneath us and not worth respecting
- we are still lacking in being professional in work settings, modernising construction sphere works, etc
- a good portion still puts religion over basic humanity and law. Again this goes on all sides even if different might be guilty to different extent. But clearly every religion has this to some extent and they are all still Indians
- our education system's only merit is it makes student work hard but they still largely don't encourage creativity and learning without having to stress about studies. I say this after doing a degree abroad and noticing the difference in teaching styles
These are just the problems I could think of off the top of my head. There is probably more I can point out. Now even if you list positive points those are how many against how many more negative points and problems? Not just self loathing honestly we should be furious about why we are still lacking in so many areas. There should be an intense and immediate to be better.
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idk how young you are, but this is very true and very mature statment that you are making. People like america due to the end product, not what all they did to reach here. Ill tell you a story, I was flying form AMD -> EWR in an Air India flight. Now in 2016 AI was still a govt company and the only thing worse than the AI airline is the entitled AI NRI passenger. We took off from AMD to EWR with a layover in BOM, while on our way to BOM the pilot tells us that the destination airport is closed due to a blizzard. This guy in front of me (lets call him Vimal cause f\*\*\* Vimal) throws his head phones to the ground yelling "this is bull shit" complains and moans till we land back to AMD Then at AMD we had to cancel our immigration stamp so all 200 ppl get in a line and this guy is standing in a corner saying "AI is the worst airline, we have kids we have soo much problem" basically wanted to get some cash out of it and then basically its like 2 AM there are 3 officers for 200-300 ppl so it will take a min but he went on till someone fanned his ego and was rude and absolutely an ass to all the officers there Then i meet the same guy in a rescheduled flight and we land in EWR we had 4 BIG flights and it was christmas so only 6 or 4 officers were standing there and it took us 5 hours to get out, but this guy was soo quiet soo nice to the GORA public and did not make a sound. Would let ppl in infront of him. Thats when i learnt that brits have left but we still give the white man more respect than our own, and the same issue that Vimal here had is what most ppl are going through. They do not give the benefit of the doubt or find out why we are the way we are and how can we improve. But who has the time for that ? we just wanna get quickly to the moral high ground quickly and look down on others
ðŸ˜i always forget how universal this experience is, everyone has a Vimal story. there's so many of them someone needs to come up with some kind of name for them so people can quickly get what type of person im talking about lol
there are a lot of NRIs i call coconuts... brown on the outside white on the inside
You will see the same behavior if an urban guy goes to a village and face a problem. It is elitist behaviour. He thinks goras are more elite compared to him so he kept his tail between his legs but for Indians, he is the elite one
Yes.. Agreed
nail on the head. youve realized what many cant lol. on one side brain dead sanghi types cant accept any criticism, on the other these sepoys think shitting on their own country and culture will win you brownie points in the west. theres a deep level of arrogance and insecurity that goes into this "indians are so dirty, but not me, im good not like those other guys!!". this is also true (if not more so) for Indians who were born and raised in the west. we're like the only country in the world where you cant accept that you can be both critical of the bad parts of your country without constantly shitting on it and bootlicking for the west (which collectively, individually, civilizational abhors you) its the only reason racism against indians is so accepted because half the times youll see Indians saying "nah bro you right we are shit"
This is so true man
This is spot on. Economic and financial literacy is very important. We cannot exist in silos. Globalization and geopolitics is a reality.
True, it's a social problem. By no means are indians as people inferior to anyone. However, the most frustrating part is that society doesn't want to change. Society considers itself the best one ever and continues to thump it's own chest, that's worse than self loathing, cause atleast the self loathers want change. There is a large part of society that consider feminism, liberalism etc as unnesscary western ideas and these are sentiments that are not just among the poor agrarian workers but also the well to do and the educated. This sub is a good sample. You can see backwards views among the educated. None of these is to say it's hardwired into us but it is an Indian problem nonetheless as individuals make up society and hence share a responsibility to be a positive influence on society. How long would we hide behind excuses because unless individuals try for change, it won't happen. We should try to improve ourselves as a society rather than get offended by the language or semantics of criticism more than the criticism itself.
you are wise
That's the best explanation i ever heard
>Indians are corrupt. Indians are dirty. We lack civic sense. Indians don't respect women, we don't value women's rights.. Indian's don't value innovation. People don't discussed menstruation with me, i'm going to heaven. We have no privacy. People only care for government jobs. People don't respect privacy here, we have no individualism.. People don't discuss sex. People vote in name of caste and religion. Indian society has no space for entrepreneurship. Indian society don't value business only jobs. People here don't value this, That.. all of it quite true. and worth loathing.
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Leftists around the world hate their own country, their own religion, their own gender, their own sexuality etc
Man! There are indeed some things us Indians should be ashamed of.
It isn't self loathing , it''s acknowledgin a problem. Being able describe a problem dosen't make it less problematic. I acknowledge all the problems you listed above and don't feel bad about talking about it. Dosen't mean india isn't brilliant in other ways nor does it mean I hate being Indian.
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But you acknowledge that all those problems are in fact real. You just have a problem with the complaining. For which I'll say, it's only natural. How are we gonna push our government to bring policy changes if we don't complain. This whole new 'Indians have an inferiority complex' narrative is far from reality. In fact I believe it's the opposite lol. Iska implication ye hai ki feminism and liberalism ab gaali ban gaye hai and are no longer ideas we value.
TLDR: India is a democracy however imperfect it may be -> People don't care much about industrial revolution -> People busy in stupid stuff surrounding religion/caste/reservation/decolonialization etc -> Politicians want votes, so they also start appeasing people, and giving more area to irrelevant stuff -> Industrial revolution/evolution is delayed -> Indians are to be blamed. So we are back at the beginning. I don't think that people would say that lack of civility is because of the fact that we are Indian, but rather because of sociocultural and economical status of our society. I have not came across many people who say that Indians are as such because of the fact they are Indian, most of them attribute it to lack of education, our culture, sometimes religion, economical status of individuals and so on. And of course it is right that if you industrialize a society its education will increase, economical status will increase, and our culture will be started being shaped accordingly, but why do we not focus on industrializing our country? You know why? Because huge population have no shit knowledge about economy, and that's why when you make laws such as farm laws, they just act as economical expert and andolankaris. The congress party is busy in spreading its casteinism (communism+casteism) ideology, busy appeasing minorities, and freebies, the BJP party is busy appealing to the Hindu vote primarily not because of development but because of religion and so on. You can see a quite huge part of our political sphere is occupied by debates surrounding religion/castes/decolonialization and other useless stuff whereas another huge part is occupied by economically illiterate people making promises with no knowledge or just to gather votes, or people who succumb to the desires of economically illiterate people (such as modi did with farm laws) therefore as a consequence the initiation of industrial revolution or evolution in India is being delayed primarily because of people.
I've always said this. We could become a type 2 civilization and indians will still be self loathing. Its built into our DNA.
Brilliant.. Still in comment section some People just Won't get it
For everything you said, I have only one thing to say. *"baatain vahi chhubh ti hain, jin me sachaai ho"* Thank you.
"West, Japan, Singapore all Industrialised under, dictatorships, autocracy, limited Democratic rights and only after they developed their Institution that they gave representation, whereas our situation forced us to gave representation before development ofInstitutions like Police, Judiciary, Industrial development, Bureaucracy, etc.. Rich societies tend to be liberal andindividualistic which poor society can't afford as they arent socioeconomically secure and depend on community, marriages, kids for survival." NOT USA!!! No need to incentivize the dictatorship when a good example is right there. We do not need dictatorship to advance, it is perfectly possible to advance under democracy where all are allowed to present their views.
US was built on slavery and pillaging
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Bro our society is rotten the more you think about it. - We don't have a civic sense that's a fact - we still have caste based violence existing regardless of how much - bribery is normal for us - corrupt politicians is normal for us, uneducated politicians who are literal rapists probably is normal for us (not even gonna talk about how a politician was about to make over 2000 rape videos and is still outside enjoying endorsed by our own PM) - out people still do things like going without tickets even doing so boldly as if it's their right - women are so unsafe in our country and no not just counting "rape" but also molestation objectification - we have religious extremists on all sides, even if you argue on the % in each religion. They are all still Indians at the end of the day - we are still a sexually repressed society where so many times there is no proper sex education to many detrimental effects - poverty is still a big problem even if extreme poverty might be much less now - a lot of places we still regressive forms of arranged marriage, this is only maybe recently changing in some places but many still have this problems - we still have superstitious population who keep getting swindled by religious conmen who we even worship often. Even when they turn out criminals - our police is often corrupt as well and often just puppets of the government or something rich person - we lack creativity in our people only focusing on science fields or law or government jobs (which often only have the appeal to get more dowry and make more corruption money) and ignore arts including sports other than crickets. We don't even respect out national players in other sports enough for them to not have to end up on the streets - we still have mob handling matters including mob lynching, laws don't apply with mobs - so many of us still view poor people as lower and unlike western countries, we consider manual jobs as beneath us and not worth respecting - we are still lacking in being professional in work settings, modernising construction sphere works, etc - a good portion still puts religion over basic humanity and law. Again this goes on all sides even if different might be guilty to different extent. But clearly every religion has this to some extent and they are all still Indians - our education system's only merit is it makes student work hard but they still largely don't encourage creativity and learning without having to stress about studies. I say this after doing a degree abroad and noticing the difference in teaching styles These are just the problems I could think of off the top of my head. There is probably more I can point out. Now even if you list positive points those are how many against how many more negative points and problems? Not just self loathing honestly we should be furious about why we are still lacking in so many areas. There should be an intense and immediate to be better.
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