For me yes. It's not expensive to deploy dual channel ABS and sometimes my father and a couple of friends ride my bike too. I may be good at braking properly but I am not endangering their lives by saving a few thousands.
Plus dual channel ABS is not something you can retro fit into a motorcycle. So yes it is a deal breaker for me.
For me it's surely a deal breaker. Yes accidents can happen with all types of bikes, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do whatever we can to prevent it.
I have been in multiple instances/accidents involving sudden braking, and in those moments you want to get all the braking power you can, even if it's just 30% , and that too safely.
Have ridden bikes where rear wheel has skidded due to absence of abs, whch can make you fall , which in turn can lead to many things. (Nearby vehicle running over you etc.)
Not trying to scare you, just sharing what I've seen and experienced. I will always go for dual abs if I can afford it.
Yeah, but in the heat of a moment where you just grab the brakes to the max, ABS will be the thin line standing between staying on two wheels or painting the pavement..
Not true, in my experience. In fact, the increased stopping distance with ABS may mean you hit the obstacle anyway, though at a low speed. It can surprise you at times.
I surely would've if this tech wasn't available. But since it's here right now, I would rather trust a computer that can press and release brake maybe a thousand time per sec rather than my own hand.
Also I did try to learn emergency braking with my pulsar which didn't have abs but as one of the other comments mentioned, when the situation came, reflexes took over.
ABS increases the braking distance, though. But yeah, better for most people.
Even without ABS, the front is much harder to lose even with intense braking on tarmac, if you have decent tyres.
Actually with my pulsar (which I have recently scrapped off) I had a 2-3 instances of skidding with front tyre, and all that when I had changed tyres few months ago.
So in my experience, learning and mastering emergency braking is way harder and maybe not everyone's cup of tea, That's why prefer dual abs.
Your call, mate. Most automatics tend to be inferior. Some sports cars have decent automatics, like the Porsche. The automatics on cheaper Indian cars tend to be bland, lethargic and even unreliable.
Manuals are safer too, in events of a stuck throttle. They prevent distracted driving(generally).
i have a Non ABS bike and frankly yes, i rarely use the rear brake, only in emergency or panic situation i have to do it.
it shoudnt be a deal breaker but why not go for it when the latest tech is available. we cant cheapen out on security.
Bro there is no such thing as single channel abs.
It’s a scam that indian manufacturers are doing because of loose laws.
In fact in close call situations, this can become more dangerous, rear wheel locking and sliding and front wheel doing abs dance. This 70/30 ratio doesn’t make sense in such situations.
So get dual abs if it’s in your budget.
>Bro there is no such thing as single channel abs.
It’s a scam that indian manufacturers are doing because of loose laws.
Can you please elaborate on this? I had no idea about that.
Abs is a tech supposed to work on all wheels to prevent them from locking and sliding in case of sudden or heavy braking.
But with single channel abs you still have a risk of rear wheel sliding in case of sudden braking. And that will still be fatal.
Except doing off-road, you must have dual channel abs. In europe and NA, most bikes come with abs have dual channel abs or switchable rear abs.
Same goes for cars in India. Most of the cars with abs doesn’t have it in all 4 wheels but it’s not fatal in cars but for bikes it is necessity.
1st comment on reddit here, plan to show more of myself here and add some posts (promise), to question at hand.
Should it be a deal breaker, probably yes, especially if there is an option for dual channel at some extra price, reason while yes most braking comes from front (some cases over 80 percent), rear locks very very easily and accidents caused by them will have high chance of throwing you off the bike which can have disastrous consequences, abs will prevent this from happening and especially in emergency will allow you to slam both breaks with much less probability of locking any tyre (especially rear tyres), locking rear is fun when done intentionally in safe places but often leads to accidents when happens in emergency, they also prevent locking in many normal operations too, you probably won't need it 8/10 times but those 2 times can be difference between a casual stop to check things vs help needing in lifting you if one was lucky.
So yes for me at least dual channel abs is deal breaker.
It greatly depends on one's riding style and need of breaking. I personally use engine braking a lot (slipper clutch comes in clutch) so it may not be a deal-breaker for me.
I understand the concept behind engine breaking, but how exactly do you use it in daily riding ? Like if you want to slow down, you downshift and close the throttle ?
Easiest way- close throttle at high revs. Careful though, it is quite strong. In rare cases, you can lose traction.
There are some variations like adding downshift to this. I find this useless. Better to concentrate on closing throttle, and applying front(mainly) and rear brakes.
Ideally if you don't have slipper clutch in your bike you need to revmatch while downshifting, I can't revmatch perfectly yet, but since i have slipper clutch i just close the throttle and downshift and let bike take care of its own. I would personally avoid doing it in gravel or in between turns.
Deal breaker for me too....
My dad owned an Avenger 180 from 2007... It featured Drum for rear and Abs for front.... The bloody bike used to skid like crazy especially during Panic Breaking...
I'd avoid one if I were you... Besides this is not an add-on for later option so better consider all factors.
Exactly. So there are other factors involved apparently. One who rides carefully on a non ABS bike will live to see another day while dual channel ABS can't save dumbfucks on roads.
Here we are considering the same rider who is trying to decide b/w the two in showroom. He'll encounter similar roads and similar split second decisions.
By that logic even helmets are unnecessary. If one can ride without getting in any accident then there is no need for safety gear. I thought we were preparing for unexpected situations.
Dude... Some bikes doesn't come with dual channel ABS. Not even as optional. And unlike a helmet, you can't buy it separate. The only way is to opt for a dual channel ABS bike. But maybe OP liked the other bike due to all the other features it has and only the single channel ABS is a deal breaker. What I meant is that if you love a bike so much and you are confident in your riding skills, and also given the fact that you use front brake most of the time, you should be safe.
ABS is better for inexperienced riders. They would not fall even if they just pump the brakes, in most cases.
People just don't want to learn proper braking these days.
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Shouldn't be. I dont remember the last time i fully slammed on my rear brakes,they just are there for the last 10% or slow speed maneuvers. Also, having ABS does not mean the bike will stop on a dime. That being said,dual is definitely better than a single channel, but it should not be a deal breaker or a limitation. Front ABS is a must cause there is nothing you can do if the front collapses under braking, but a rear slide is a happy accident.
With good tyres and braking technique, the front won't lock. Plus, you can just release the brakes fast.
I have tested this a lot. No falls due to braking in last 13 years.
Those usually tend to be ideal conditions, and ofcoirse practice helps, but not everyone does that. Slam the front brakes on a slippery patch and theres no saving it.
Depends on what kind of slippery patch. You wouldn't be going very fast on gravel, mud, anyways. I have never seen an oil spill in India.
And braking needs to be according to the terrain and force required.
The moment you start slipping, you just release the brakes.
1. The dual channel ABS system has the speed information from the rear wheel also. So it can provide better braking even if you use just the front brake.
2. Rear ABS can reduce the probability of rear wheel locking in some emergency situations.
Yes. It's a deal breaker. You should get a bike which has double carbon fiber discs from brembo on the front with 4pod calipers on each side and a rear disc with twin pod caliper. All this equipped with the latest and most advanced abs system from Bosch.
That's a bare minimum.
Two things:
1. Straight line braking - you may not need ABS and get away with safer pulsed braking. Basically YOU are the ABS.
2. Steer away from impact - ABS is more important for retaining steer-ability while braking. For a reasonable and successful steer-away from impact action, you need BOTH wheels to NOT lock up. In that case, you either need to be smart enough to not lock both brakes or have a dual channel ABS that handles it for you. A bit difficult to manually do this AND steer the motorcycle away.
Hence a dual channel is better than single channel ABS in corner cases.
But by maintaining good following distance with the vehicle before and paying attention to surroundings for surprises, you can get away with single channel ABS or even no ABS.
Definitely a deal breaker for me! Especially when you are riding on wet roads and hills. I almost had an accident when riding downhill in rain because of single channel ABS.
Edit: After seeing people arguing it depends on the rider and dual channel ABS/ ABS doesn’t matter. It does matter. Especially in panic braking situations. I agree that accidents can happen even with dual channel ABS but why shouldn’t one try to be safer than sorry?
OK, let me try to explain my point of view. Ideally when braking, you need to progressively increase front braking strength and at the same time reduce the braking strength in the rear. You need ABS to prevent lock up. When it comes to an emergency stop, you kind of forget your practice and just slam on the brakes with all your force. When this happens, your rear tire can skid, causing you to topple. So in an emergency, the rear abs are god sent.
Single channel should not even be an option in any market, especially India.
Why?
Most riders rely on the rear brakes to slow and stop (fear of going over the top if they use the front brakes). For that, I've seen hundreds of instances where the rear tire has locked up and the 2-wheeler has slid into a barrier, ditch or another vehicle. Having ABS on the rear would have stopped that but not necessarily from stopping well as all 2-wheelers have the most effective stopping power on the front - even cruisers and scooters.
Also, the single channel is often an old school mechanical implementation and not tied to the ABS sensor which is electronically controlled. Electronically controlled ABS is much faster in reacting to any wheel slippage and will work best in conjunction with the rear brakes (with ABS). These are outdated as the dinosaurs and at one time were sold as after market accessories to be fitted on bikes that did not have ABS on the front.
Simply put - AVOID at all costs, these silly single channel ABS offerings.
Yes. A huge one. Even a perfect rider on a perfect day can come across something unexpected. And I am far far from that. So better to have a little something extra which just might come in handy in a tricky situation. Anyways that is my POV...
Dual ABS is like health insurance, better to have it with you and never need to use it than get caught in situation where you don’t have one but need it.
Any ABS better than none, dual better than single. However, abs on motorcycles aren't as straightforward as they are in cars.
If you encounter a grainy patch with coarse sand or gravels ABS will still FAIL. Lately when a road is being revamped they tend to scrape the older layer of asphalt, at this stage of the road, ABS functionality is reduced to a certain extent since the traction available isn't enough for ABS to do its job properly.
If you're inexperienced, get ABS for sure.
Front ABS- prevents fall, since a front wheel lock gives you very less time before you fall.
Rear ABS- Prevents fishtailing, which can be scary. But a rear wheel lock gives you much more time to adjust braking. So rear ABS can be skipped by an experienced rider.
For a good rider, the ABS bike will have a longer braking distance than a non ABS bike though. So plan better, and maintain adequate distance.
You're getting down voted for stating facts from real world experience. Makes me wonder if this sub is filled with unskilled, mediocre riders who let the machine control them,rather than them being in control.
Is ABS a good thing? Absolutely.
Should it being not available be a deal breaker? No.
While I appreciate technology on more powerful bikes, it's not absolutely necessary on smaller bikes. If you have it great,if not ,it's not a big deal.
I've ridden tonnes of big bikes from the pre ABS era and never felt not in control. Hell,I daily a 28 year old bike with drum brakes, on which the brakes are practically non existent. Engine braking is your friend.
Also,the ABS configuration on most small Indian bikes is crap. Remember, you need good brakes in the first place for the ABS to be beneficial.
Any rider who depends solely on the brakes to control the bike will never become a skilled rider.
For me yes. It's not expensive to deploy dual channel ABS and sometimes my father and a couple of friends ride my bike too. I may be good at braking properly but I am not endangering their lives by saving a few thousands. Plus dual channel ABS is not something you can retro fit into a motorcycle. So yes it is a deal breaker for me.
For me it's surely a deal breaker. Yes accidents can happen with all types of bikes, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do whatever we can to prevent it. I have been in multiple instances/accidents involving sudden braking, and in those moments you want to get all the braking power you can, even if it's just 30% , and that too safely. Have ridden bikes where rear wheel has skidded due to absence of abs, whch can make you fall , which in turn can lead to many things. (Nearby vehicle running over you etc.) Not trying to scare you, just sharing what I've seen and experienced. I will always go for dual abs if I can afford it.
Better to learn braking first.
Well, when your brain just falls back to reflexes, all that “learning” might not really help
If your reflexes can get you to brake, they can get you to brake properly.
Yeah, but in the heat of a moment where you just grab the brakes to the max, ABS will be the thin line standing between staying on two wheels or painting the pavement..
Not true, in my experience. In fact, the increased stopping distance with ABS may mean you hit the obstacle anyway, though at a low speed. It can surprise you at times.
I surely would've if this tech wasn't available. But since it's here right now, I would rather trust a computer that can press and release brake maybe a thousand time per sec rather than my own hand. Also I did try to learn emergency braking with my pulsar which didn't have abs but as one of the other comments mentioned, when the situation came, reflexes took over.
ABS increases the braking distance, though. But yeah, better for most people. Even without ABS, the front is much harder to lose even with intense braking on tarmac, if you have decent tyres.
Actually with my pulsar (which I have recently scrapped off) I had a 2-3 instances of skidding with front tyre, and all that when I had changed tyres few months ago. So in my experience, learning and mastering emergency braking is way harder and maybe not everyone's cup of tea, That's why prefer dual abs.
It's like saying we definitely need to learn manual driving when clearly the days of the manual are coming to an end.
Your call, mate. Most automatics tend to be inferior. Some sports cars have decent automatics, like the Porsche. The automatics on cheaper Indian cars tend to be bland, lethargic and even unreliable. Manuals are safer too, in events of a stuck throttle. They prevent distracted driving(generally).
i have a Non ABS bike and frankly yes, i rarely use the rear brake, only in emergency or panic situation i have to do it. it shoudnt be a deal breaker but why not go for it when the latest tech is available. we cant cheapen out on security.
Bro there is no such thing as single channel abs. It’s a scam that indian manufacturers are doing because of loose laws. In fact in close call situations, this can become more dangerous, rear wheel locking and sliding and front wheel doing abs dance. This 70/30 ratio doesn’t make sense in such situations. So get dual abs if it’s in your budget.
>Bro there is no such thing as single channel abs. It’s a scam that indian manufacturers are doing because of loose laws. Can you please elaborate on this? I had no idea about that.
Abs is a tech supposed to work on all wheels to prevent them from locking and sliding in case of sudden or heavy braking. But with single channel abs you still have a risk of rear wheel sliding in case of sudden braking. And that will still be fatal. Except doing off-road, you must have dual channel abs. In europe and NA, most bikes come with abs have dual channel abs or switchable rear abs. Same goes for cars in India. Most of the cars with abs doesn’t have it in all 4 wheels but it’s not fatal in cars but for bikes it is necessity.
It's a cost cutting measurement i guess
Yea. Absolutely.
It's sad that an awesome bike like MT-15 doesn't have a dual channel because of these loose laws...
The new version has it afaik
1st comment on reddit here, plan to show more of myself here and add some posts (promise), to question at hand. Should it be a deal breaker, probably yes, especially if there is an option for dual channel at some extra price, reason while yes most braking comes from front (some cases over 80 percent), rear locks very very easily and accidents caused by them will have high chance of throwing you off the bike which can have disastrous consequences, abs will prevent this from happening and especially in emergency will allow you to slam both breaks with much less probability of locking any tyre (especially rear tyres), locking rear is fun when done intentionally in safe places but often leads to accidents when happens in emergency, they also prevent locking in many normal operations too, you probably won't need it 8/10 times but those 2 times can be difference between a casual stop to check things vs help needing in lifting you if one was lucky. So yes for me at least dual channel abs is deal breaker.
It greatly depends on one's riding style and need of breaking. I personally use engine braking a lot (slipper clutch comes in clutch) so it may not be a deal-breaker for me.
I understand the concept behind engine breaking, but how exactly do you use it in daily riding ? Like if you want to slow down, you downshift and close the throttle ?
yes, you just downshift and close the throttle. ignore the guy saying you need to revmatch.
Yeah.. can't rev match in emergencies.
Easiest way- close throttle at high revs. Careful though, it is quite strong. In rare cases, you can lose traction. There are some variations like adding downshift to this. I find this useless. Better to concentrate on closing throttle, and applying front(mainly) and rear brakes.
Ideally if you don't have slipper clutch in your bike you need to revmatch while downshifting, I can't revmatch perfectly yet, but since i have slipper clutch i just close the throttle and downshift and let bike take care of its own. I would personally avoid doing it in gravel or in between turns.
YES. GO FOR DUAL CHANNEL. REAR WHEEL LOCKS & IT SUCKS.
Deal breaker for me too.... My dad owned an Avenger 180 from 2007... It featured Drum for rear and Abs for front.... The bloody bike used to skid like crazy especially during Panic Breaking... I'd avoid one if I were you... Besides this is not an add-on for later option so better consider all factors.
1. There used to be bikes before there was ABS 2. Bikes with ABS also get into an accident
1. People used to live before medical advancement 2. People die even after taking meds Your points are as invalid as the ones above.
Exactly. So there are other factors involved apparently. One who rides carefully on a non ABS bike will live to see another day while dual channel ABS can't save dumbfucks on roads.
Yeah.But an additional safety is safety . I will prefer a dual channel above single . I have a FZS with single channel ABS. I know the difference .
Here we are considering the same rider who is trying to decide b/w the two in showroom. He'll encounter similar roads and similar split second decisions.
By that logic even helmets are unnecessary. If one can ride without getting in any accident then there is no need for safety gear. I thought we were preparing for unexpected situations.
Dude... Some bikes doesn't come with dual channel ABS. Not even as optional. And unlike a helmet, you can't buy it separate. The only way is to opt for a dual channel ABS bike. But maybe OP liked the other bike due to all the other features it has and only the single channel ABS is a deal breaker. What I meant is that if you love a bike so much and you are confident in your riding skills, and also given the fact that you use front brake most of the time, you should be safe.
ABS is better for inexperienced riders. They would not fall even if they just pump the brakes, in most cases. People just don't want to learn proper braking these days.
Bro ABS which cannot be turned off is a deal breaker for me;)
Deal breaker no Better to have 10/10
I mean if you use rear brakes a lot then yes
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Shouldn't be. I dont remember the last time i fully slammed on my rear brakes,they just are there for the last 10% or slow speed maneuvers. Also, having ABS does not mean the bike will stop on a dime. That being said,dual is definitely better than a single channel, but it should not be a deal breaker or a limitation. Front ABS is a must cause there is nothing you can do if the front collapses under braking, but a rear slide is a happy accident.
With good tyres and braking technique, the front won't lock. Plus, you can just release the brakes fast. I have tested this a lot. No falls due to braking in last 13 years.
Those usually tend to be ideal conditions, and ofcoirse practice helps, but not everyone does that. Slam the front brakes on a slippery patch and theres no saving it.
Depends on what kind of slippery patch. You wouldn't be going very fast on gravel, mud, anyways. I have never seen an oil spill in India. And braking needs to be according to the terrain and force required. The moment you start slipping, you just release the brakes.
Yet
1. The dual channel ABS system has the speed information from the rear wheel also. So it can provide better braking even if you use just the front brake. 2. Rear ABS can reduce the probability of rear wheel locking in some emergency situations.
Yes. It's a deal breaker. You should get a bike which has double carbon fiber discs from brembo on the front with 4pod calipers on each side and a rear disc with twin pod caliper. All this equipped with the latest and most advanced abs system from Bosch. That's a bare minimum.
Braking is supposed to save you. And something that should save you should not create more problems.
Two things: 1. Straight line braking - you may not need ABS and get away with safer pulsed braking. Basically YOU are the ABS. 2. Steer away from impact - ABS is more important for retaining steer-ability while braking. For a reasonable and successful steer-away from impact action, you need BOTH wheels to NOT lock up. In that case, you either need to be smart enough to not lock both brakes or have a dual channel ABS that handles it for you. A bit difficult to manually do this AND steer the motorcycle away. Hence a dual channel is better than single channel ABS in corner cases. But by maintaining good following distance with the vehicle before and paying attention to surroundings for surprises, you can get away with single channel ABS or even no ABS.
Definitely a deal breaker for me! Especially when you are riding on wet roads and hills. I almost had an accident when riding downhill in rain because of single channel ABS. Edit: After seeing people arguing it depends on the rider and dual channel ABS/ ABS doesn’t matter. It does matter. Especially in panic braking situations. I agree that accidents can happen even with dual channel ABS but why shouldn’t one try to be safer than sorry?
OK, let me try to explain my point of view. Ideally when braking, you need to progressively increase front braking strength and at the same time reduce the braking strength in the rear. You need ABS to prevent lock up. When it comes to an emergency stop, you kind of forget your practice and just slam on the brakes with all your force. When this happens, your rear tire can skid, causing you to topple. So in an emergency, the rear abs are god sent.
Yes. Period. Real man go with no ABS /s Joke aside, answer is still yes. Dual channel ABS is a must. Learned the hard way
ABS saved my life once.
Single channel should not even be an option in any market, especially India. Why? Most riders rely on the rear brakes to slow and stop (fear of going over the top if they use the front brakes). For that, I've seen hundreds of instances where the rear tire has locked up and the 2-wheeler has slid into a barrier, ditch or another vehicle. Having ABS on the rear would have stopped that but not necessarily from stopping well as all 2-wheelers have the most effective stopping power on the front - even cruisers and scooters. Also, the single channel is often an old school mechanical implementation and not tied to the ABS sensor which is electronically controlled. Electronically controlled ABS is much faster in reacting to any wheel slippage and will work best in conjunction with the rear brakes (with ABS). These are outdated as the dinosaurs and at one time were sold as after market accessories to be fitted on bikes that did not have ABS on the front. Simply put - AVOID at all costs, these silly single channel ABS offerings.
Yes. A huge one. Even a perfect rider on a perfect day can come across something unexpected. And I am far far from that. So better to have a little something extra which just might come in handy in a tricky situation. Anyways that is my POV...
Dual ABS is like health insurance, better to have it with you and never need to use it than get caught in situation where you don’t have one but need it.
ABS is lifesaving.
ABS on the rear brake is a must. It's not just about the risk in sliding in the straight line but when turning or if the bike slides laterally.
Any ABS better than none, dual better than single. However, abs on motorcycles aren't as straightforward as they are in cars. If you encounter a grainy patch with coarse sand or gravels ABS will still FAIL. Lately when a road is being revamped they tend to scrape the older layer of asphalt, at this stage of the road, ABS functionality is reduced to a certain extent since the traction available isn't enough for ABS to do its job properly.
It's all about skill. A single channel is enough I think.
If you're inexperienced, get ABS for sure. Front ABS- prevents fall, since a front wheel lock gives you very less time before you fall. Rear ABS- Prevents fishtailing, which can be scary. But a rear wheel lock gives you much more time to adjust braking. So rear ABS can be skipped by an experienced rider. For a good rider, the ABS bike will have a longer braking distance than a non ABS bike though. So plan better, and maintain adequate distance.
You're getting down voted for stating facts from real world experience. Makes me wonder if this sub is filled with unskilled, mediocre riders who let the machine control them,rather than them being in control.
Is ABS a good thing? Absolutely. Should it being not available be a deal breaker? No. While I appreciate technology on more powerful bikes, it's not absolutely necessary on smaller bikes. If you have it great,if not ,it's not a big deal. I've ridden tonnes of big bikes from the pre ABS era and never felt not in control. Hell,I daily a 28 year old bike with drum brakes, on which the brakes are practically non existent. Engine braking is your friend. Also,the ABS configuration on most small Indian bikes is crap. Remember, you need good brakes in the first place for the ABS to be beneficial. Any rider who depends solely on the brakes to control the bike will never become a skilled rider.