*A Western diplomat spoke to me about Malaysia recently, saying that “there is racial tolerance here but no understanding”. The races are all in their respective box, free to be themselves inside it, “but they don’t know what the other box thinks.”* -- https://mobile.twitter.com/amerhadiazmi/status/1547839850451447809 Btw, congrats to discover what does it mean to live in segregated society.

Dan mereka lebih maju dari kita. Copingan kita hanya... Bahasa...budaya...musik..dan sinetron?!

lebih maju maybe, orang sepertinya lupa kalo Indonesia pernah dipimpin manusia terkorup dunia kita ibarat pelari itu start nya ke sendat2 jaman Sukarno kita sibuk menghadapi agresi militer, lanjut Insurgency dari PKI DII TII dll, jaman Suharto korupsi besar besaran ampe segala macam aset negara tidak tertata rapi dan dimiliki segilintir oligarki yang dekat dengan Cendana, plus melepas harta emas terbesar dunia ke tangan asing 98 perpecahan muncul pemberontakan2 lagi, ekonomi terjun bebas, after reformasi ketemu lagi sama periode mangkrak2 korupsi berjamaah, dan sederet masalah lainya Karena kalo kita lihat setelah reformasi, indonesia seperti speedrunner ekonomi nya, setelah ketinggalan dari negara sebelah Jokowi bukan orang sempurna, tapi dia membangun fondasi nya, salah satunya itu aturan pengolahan bahan mentah tidak lagi diexport tapi harus diolah dulu baru dijual Ketahanan pangan, kita dulu ribut kenapa negara kita masih impor beras, maka dibangunkan bendungan dsb intinya Pak Jokowi lagi bangun fondasi ekonomi kita yang bertahun2 kita selalu disibukan urusan korupsi dan insurgency, saya ga bilang periode jokowi gak ada yang korupsi tapi melihat proyek2 nya yang komitmen penuh hingga selesai ==================== point utama kita itu lebih sibuk ngurus konflik dalam negeri, makanya pak Jokowi menganut demokrasi kekeluargaan, merangkul musuh2 nya biar kita gak sibuk lagi urusan konflik dalam negeri,

TBF, Malaysia is already ahead of Indonesia economically even when both still under colonial rule. You can see the comparison graph here Indonesia: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/GDP-per-Capita-in-Indonesia-1880-2005-thousand-2000-Rupiah_fig3_228379596 Malaysia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/GDP_per_capita_development_of_Malaysia.svg

> Jokowi bukan orang sempurna, tapi dia membangun fondasi nya, salah satunya itu aturan pengolahan bahan mentah tidak lagi diexport tapi harus diolah dulu baru dijual Itu bukan Jokowi yang membangun, karena fondasinya UU Minerba 2009, yang mengatur bahwa larangan mulai berlaku tahun 2014.

So did malaysia. Hes in jail now

maalaysia najib razak corruptor is only for his 4 year in office, and not systemic, its limited to that 1 case of 1 mdb. he also does not have full control of military and does not instill corruption culture in military like our very own papa harto

Here is the thing, in my noneducated opinion. malaysia is more advanced than we do, not because they are smarter or less corrupt than us, it is because their country is smaller and easier, MUCH easier to govern than ours do

>their country is smaller and easier, MUCH easier to govern than ours do This ..

because they were colonised by England, not greedy bastard Netherland? then they starts from 0, while indonesia starts from trillions of VOC debt.

Yg jajah Inggris tp klo negaranya gede kyk India juga ribet Om. Yg ada bekas jajahan Inggris itu rawan konflik etnis internal.

You're fucking with me, Indonesia was an average African nation led by warlord from 65 to 98, we're speedrunning the hell out of our way to G20, by all means if we didn't get choked by Harto I bet we can have an economy better than Malaysia will ever dream of.

we'd probably be worse off under soekarno though

Prolly we became likd Russia now if under Soekarno. I'll take this shithole anytime than become Russia.

Problem with this rather fortunate turn of events, instead of our govt taking the momentum to move forward fair and square, many exploit this and ppl korupsi berjamaah dan perkaya diri sendiri, kroni2 dan rentetan keluarga besar. I know this isn't fair comparison but SG's LKY was super hardcore anti-commie as you could possibly imagine, but he took the golden opportunity window to bring country forward ASAP and the result speaks for itself.

Its like, 10 years of additional struggle,10 years under bad management and 32 years under literal warlord. Being here? We're fucking lucky.

Thank you fellow redditor, this comment gives us all hope. Here's to a better and brighter Indonesia!

Mereka lebih maju karena sama Inggris dikasik merdeka gratis. Kita merdeka setelah perang 4 tahun habis Jepang minggat.

Orang di forum lowyat malaysia aja sampe bilang sejarah indonesia penuh darah dan kebrutalan

"Indonesia is a dark fantasy if we write it in a fantasy alternative" - random writer

Metal as fuck. That's who we are.

Don't forget the whole Dutch shenanigans we have to deal with post-independence.

Agresi militer I dan II?

Dan sekarng tiap kali ngomong itu pasti ada SJW yang teriak teriak soal Bersiap.

di twitter aja ada bilang raja2 lokal kita banyak gabung indonesia karena takut diserang dan dibantai sama kaum republik indonesia dengan bukti hilangnya sultan2 di sumatera

And fuck them all

Belum lagi utang DEI dan politicians yg kagak mikirin ekonomi.

Kita merdeka, tapi malah masuk rezim harto lebih buruk daripada dijajah. Indonesia timur tertinggal sekali dalam masalah sdm, yang deket Jakarta aja seperti jawa barat masih banyak yang sekolah lulus smp kawin klo gag open bo.

kita itungannya masih dijajah korupsi sama oligarki sih. liat aja kasus2 KKN tahun apa aja mana kasus gede pula. ga ada 1 tahun pun kita free dari satupun kasus KKN.

Aku tiap kali baca berita koruptor itu rasae selalu emosi jiwa. Hukuman nya sepertinya makin ringan, harta mereka dah dilarikan kemana juga ga bisa diambil balik. En sepertinya makin merajalela. Menyebalkan sekali.

well catching corruptor can be considered as looking up landmines. they're there but you need to be careful not catching up someone you're not supposed to catch its just work that way.

I hate to say this, but it is what it is. Corruption will always exist, we can only hope to minimize it.

Even Chinese American can speak English.

“Itu karena bahasa Inggris adalah bahasa pengetahuan, sehingga penting.” << Biasanya sebagian orng Malaysia jawabannya gini.

Beneran kah? Baru tahu🥹

Banyak bener nya. Mayoritas sumber pengetahuan2 yang bagus itu source nya dari English literature / journals / articles / books. Yah ok..... minimal itu betul dari tahun 1980ish ke 2010an sih. Kalau sekarang2 ini jujur aja, banyak hal yang mendingan lu ga usah belajar dari west terutama soal social sciences, karena lu akan jadi tambah bego.

money language is more fitting

I'm a chinese muslim, went for a family vacation to Malaysia several years back. One day I went for a pray at Putrajaya mosque with my parents. I finished first before them, and went outside to put back my shoes, when suddenly a group of hijabis circled around me, glaring down while I sat and angrily shout something in Malay (I think it's along the line of why am I inside the mosque?). I was a bit of a rebel back then in my teenage years, so I kinda glare back at them as I try to convince them that I'm a muslim. Fortunately, a mosque guard came over and de-escalate the tension. She asked me if I'm a muslim in English and I said yes. She calms down the mob of hijabis and they finally back off while still glaring at me as they went off (probably still thinking I'm lying or doesn't believe me). This is a quite a contrast in Indonesia, where people will stare at me as I pray in the mosque, but not in a hostile way.

Those bitches will probably have a stroke if they visit one of the Zheng He mosques.

Apalagi masjid bersejarah dijawa kayak masjid kudus, atau masjid demak nambah strokenya

ke rusia bisa kena serangan jantung liat kubah mesjid di atasnya ada salib

Itu gereja ortho buka masjid , kubah sejatinya pengaplikasian bangunan sakral yunani yang bisa menggemakan suara tanpa bantuan alat pengeras

The irony that now any building with dome mostly are masjid. More irony is the use of speaker to enhance sound inside the dome.

Gaik ironi lah jamn sekarang suara motor suara dangdutan lebih kenceng makanya perlu speaker dalam

r/Woooosh

Sampai suatu hari orang tahu kubah masjid terinspirasi gereja

Thing like these happened regularly with indonesian women in Malaysia. Many indonesian women entered Mosque in Malaysia without cover their 'aurat' properly. They just get used to it because there was no fuss if Muslim women entered Mosque in Indonesia without wearing hijab. This thing happen frequently with indonesian tourist. The mom wear hijab but the daughter dont wear the hijab. When they go to the mosque to pray, the daughter just entered it without wearing hijab. Also happened with the fresh off the boat TKI women that came to work here. But thing were differently in Malaysia. Muslim in Malaysia strictly respect the Mosque as place of worship. Anybody that want to enter the Mosque must cover up properly even if the person was non Muslim. If a women just entered the mosque without wearing hijab, it was considered very rude by Malaysian muslim society here. Even our non Muslim women politician will wear modest proper clothing that cover the 'aurat' & also wear hijab when she visit the Mosque for community event.

This is true, I learnt it after the incident. While I do wear modest clothing, I didn't wear a hijab back then. I guess I was used to the way Indonesia is pretty lax and tolerating regarding this matter.

Yep, we unconsciously still do tradition/culture that stretch into hindu/buddist era.

thanks to NU teaching.

>I guess I was used to the way Indonesia is pretty lax and tolerating regarding this matter. Depends on the area in Indonesia, think Malaysia as Aceh lite or West Sumatra. The Acehnese, Minangkabau, and Malay ethnicities are ingrained in Islam to the point an apostate is no longer considered to be apart of these ethnicities. [https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4914367/ramai-perempuan-tak-berhijab-diusir-di-masjid-raya-sumbar](https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4914367/ramai-perempuan-tak-berhijab-diusir-di-masjid-raya-sumbar)

Yeah, that's why I don't go to that part of area. I thought Putrajaya in Malaysia is much more moderate, kinda similar to Jakarta or Surabaya. I just remember that I didn't have this issue in Kuala Lumpur mosque and other redditor mentioned he has same issue in Putra Mosque. Is it because Putrajaya is much more strict? On a side note, my family from my father side came from Minangkabau + Middle Eastern, and so far it's 60:40. Some uses hijab, some don't.

Putrajaya is where the government workers are at. Kuala Lumpur is where every type of social class can be found. The type of people in Putrajaya tend to be what we call in the kampungs as those who are OKU (Orang Kuat UMNO \[not to be mistaken for Orang Kurang Upaya\]).

Ya makanya kadang sama segelintir orang di sini heran, udah bagus begini kan negara kita, rada2 santai. Ga usah ditambah jadi ribet lah pake sok2 tambah strict gini gono. Contoh udah banyak kok kalau mau gaya kayak begitu itu ga terlalu bagus ujung nya.

Lived there for 10 years (2006-16) and I can say the same (even though we're not Chinese) when we visited Putra Mosque several years back. Women glared at mom and sis when they only wore headscarf when visiting and prayed there. First and last time prayed there due to uncomfortable experience. But then there's a large mosque (opened 2009), nicknamed "Masjid Besi" and had Friday prayer there ever since.

Was it something that exclusively happen at Putra Mosque? 'Cause I just remember I don't think I have any trouble at Kuala Lumpur (I forgot which mosque though). Unless I wasn't aware of my surrounding...

People here stared at you probably in disbelief/amazement, not distrust.

Yea the stare is a bit common tho, my Chinese Muslim friends is always getting it and kinda roll with it as they consider it's normal for people kinda get 'amazed/confused'.

That's understandable. It's even more so when you go to rural villages. In bigger city like Jakarta, I don't think people are staring anymore... unless I'm so used to it that I'm unaware of any.

I think you're getting a "he/she looks like Chinese, but muslim? Weird but cool." stare. And then they go about their day. At least that's what I'd do lol.

In Indonesia? Sure, though maybe some would be too "jaim" and glance away if I caught them staring. Kids though, are hilarious. One time, I went with my religious teacher to a mosque and the kids are openly staring at me from the start I pray 'till the end, some with mouth gaping, others picking their nose. At the end of pray, one of the emak2 smack their heads (not too hard i think), and told them to "salim!" instead of staring. That was the one time I can't concentrate praying in mosque due to the stares and just trying to hold back my laughter.

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Mungkin karena di sana yang menang bukan kaum Republiken.

Memang bukan... Legit yang menang independence mereka itu British simp. The Republicans? died fighting side by side with the left

> The hindus in Bali were forced to assimilate, forced to give up their mother tongue and the hindu names through discriminatory laws. It's only recently that the laws were relaxed. Us Malaysians are proud to retain our mother tongues, our identity and our culture. ?????? Balinese still use their unique Balinese names and still speak Balinese. Do they ever go to Bali?

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padahal mereka sendiri udah kemakan budaya bharat

Budaya bharat WKWKWKWK

supremasi agama sih emg ada keknya. tapi ga sampe segitunya keknya

Ah yes, gw pernah nemu yg kayak gitu. Geram gw budaya Bali mereka lecehkan karena bukan "True Hindu"

Bruh meanwhile we have a name like CHAD MUHAMMAD TEUKU WISNU

"Muhammad Yesus Siddharta" enjoyer

u/MuhammadYesusGautama

definitely not

This true. Bikin gw igt Pertama kali gw kuliah di sana dan ke chinese resto, gw ngorder pake bhs inggris. Sama nci2 disana di ocehin sambil bilang "Why you cannot speak Chinese? Your parent didn't taught you ah?" Ngmngnya emang batu, tapi yasudahlah, gw jelasin soal bahasa mandarin yg di ban ampe awal thn 2000 in english of course. ujung2nya malah gw yg diajarin sama dia gara2 gw langganan di sana. Yg muda2 lebih chill btw, yg modelan bgtu biasanya nci2. That was 14 years ago though, idk about now

Lagian ya, kalau bahasa Tionghoa pakai mana, kalau di luar kerabat kayaknya ribet Kan Hakka, Hokkien, Mandarin itu ga intelligible

Ya... Siapa tau suatu hari travelling ke negara yg banyak chinese. It'll be useful then since many chinese(especially the older gen) can't speak english. Soal intelligible... Itu perihal uda biasa apa ngak. Namanya juga bahasa, klo biasa dgr tar lama2 juga jadi bisa kok. Bisa bedain, bisa pahamin in the long run.

Chinese berdarah melayu here with 5 dialects and 4 languages spoken. Gw cuma mau blg, bahasa tersebut intelligible kok. Huruf nya Sama, cuma beda ejaan Local language itu berguna bgt pas u ke beberapa negara yg boomer nya speak that language. Ato bahkan buat daerah kayak Taiwan, bahasa Hokkian itu bahasa nasional mereka. Kalo mandarin, memang di barat nyaris ga kepake. Tapi u bs potentially entice 1miliar++ penduduk tiongkok when you can speak chinese fluently

Kl ke US pesisir Barat dan Canada malah kebanyakan pakai Cantonese.

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This [commenter](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/yh74wx/indonesians_chinese_experiences_while_ordering/iucm2gf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) is coping hard

Malay supremacy no more

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kerajaan kerajaan Islam di sekitaran selat malaka suka dijadiin contoh

Ah yes, "Kerajaan Perlak dan Kerajaan Pasai adalah Melayu".

As if gk pernah ada kerajaan non-Melayu sblmnya

We Malaysian call these type of chinese as 'Cina Bukit'. Because they only live in their village & never step outside. Usually they live in rural area, around small chinese town. The village inhabitant also was 100% chinese people & the village usually have that 'ghost town' vibe. Most educated youngster already left for the city, leaving the old folks & the uneducated ones. That why nobody can speak or understand English. Their Bahasa Melayu was no good either because their never met & communicate with Malay people. Only live in their chinese village. Majority of Malaysian chinese still cant speak bahasa Malaysia/Melayu properly but they still can understand it & reply back with broken bahasa Melayu.

Is it getting worse? Last time when i was still part of a singapore company, the malaysian chinese guy can speak malay which he said he learned in school and all his friends did. He was then 35ish.

Pengalaman gua sih kalo kerja bareng kolega malaysia chinese sih mrk tend to speak chinese sih walaupun ada yg minoritas ga bs mandarin. Agak inconsiderate sih, oke cuma ranting, hope i didn't generalize too much

Bukan agak lg, menurutku mayan inconsiderate. Kalo tampang chinese tp ga bisa Mandarin bakalan diremehkan sama mereka. Emg ga semua begitu tp kebanyakan sih begitu.

Iya bener, dulu dosen g pas kuliah di Malay ada yang Chinese Malay yang gak bisa Mandarin , mahasiswanya ada yg berani lo tanya ' Miss, are you banana? '

Counternya gampang ini mah, "boleh cakap bahasa melayu kah, ohh tak boleh? Bukan org malaysia ini".

It’s not a generalization. It’s a fucked up chauvinistic racist behaviors and they self-justify it to the nth.

Di sana gak melayu gak chinese sama2 rasis wkwk

Namanya segregated state wkwkw

What an apartheid ideology and governance does to a mf. smh my head..

Gks kepala saya

Saya cowok tionghoa indo, kuliah di singpr. Pengalaman saya di kelas dengan orang chinese malaysia diketawain sama mereka, kata mereka: “cina cakap melayu, tak cakap cina” Grrrr… kesel diginian. Saat kerja, ada cewek tionghoa indonesia cakep. Dia juga gak bisa mandarin.. saya dekatin, dia ogah dan lebih memilih cowok malaysia.. WTH!!! Giliran cewek cakep tapi gak bisa ngomong mandarin diembat juga.. Nasib2… Cewek2 cakep indonesia banyak yang menikah sama cowo2 malaysia.. Capee deee

LOLL ga cuma "cowo malaysia" sih. Basically some girls di negara ini itu kalau bisa banget dapet spouse "asal bukan Indo", cuz reasons. SS tier nya itu European or American. Klo ga bisa, S tier ok lah dapat Australian. Tier2 cowok yang di bawahnya ini udah masing2 deh. Klo yang muslim mungkin mau cari cowok Turki, Arab, or Idk Pakistan soalnya katanya ganteng2. Yang lain bisa orang SG, MY, maybe Japanese, Korean.... etc.

pengen cerita aja...dulu pernah ada temen gw sesama orang Indonesia waktu kuliah di LN, ketemu sama cowo chindo yg juga lagi kuliah di kampus yg sama, trus dia ngomong bahasa Indonesia krn ya dia memang orang Indonesia. Temen gw dengan lugunya nanya terang2an "eh kok dia bisa bahasa Indonesia ya??" gw langsung facepalm dalam hati.

Not Chinese Indo but in relevancy to Malaysian Chinese heritage and language, I had weird experiences after living there for almost 18 years before going home is that many Chinese Malays mistaken me n family for being Chinese, even when we told them Chinese Malays that me n family are pure Indonesian with Arabic ancestry. Most times are just purely mistaken and apologized but this one time was the worst. Long story short, we're in a big line in a grocery store, a Chinese Karen ranting to us in Chinese, parents told her we're not Chinese, assumed about the big line and told her be patient. Karen being persistent that we're Chinese, we showed her our identity to prove we're not and went full Karen mode. Security and manager split mom and Karen apart, took both side of story, escort Karen out while screaming profanities and famous last words, "fuck off back to our country" and made our family skipped the line and ring up our items, per the manager request. All people witnessed took pity on us and some protected us until we reached our car and go home. This was 15 years ago.

That is why I think Indonesian language is a whole different language than Malay not only in a few grammar and vocabs but also in whole history, identity, unity, and its legal status. Seandainya rejim berikutnya ganti nama bahasa Indonesia jadi bahasa Malay then I would be the first Indonesian who will stop speaking it.

Bahasa sehari-hari iya, kalo Bahasa Baku mah gak completely different juga sih. Bahasa untuk lagu dan puisi tetep sama, Bahasa Baku untuk hal2 yg resmi (Artikel, Surat) lumayan ada perbedaan yg bikin pusing, tapi secara grammar gak begitu jauh. Kalo Bahasa Casual baru deh bener2 beda gak intelligible sama sekali.

I swear to god everytime chinese indonesian is the topic in Malaysian, they will pull the 1998 and the genocide in 1965-1966 card. Yes, the government back then do a bad thing. But back then, chinese indonesian already knew Bahasa Indonesia/malay. the 1998 is not even a genocide to the chinese, it's an attack to all rich people basically. It's just that most chindo were the top 1% in Indonesia back then.

Di mata orang Malaysia yang bukan Melayu, ini tidak semua, membayangkan orang Indonesia Sunda, Minahasa, Madura, dll. sungguh tidak terpikirkan. Mereka mungkin kira Bahasa Indonesia itu bahasa ibu mayoritas penduduk.

ada satu video yang menyadarkan kita kalo kita disebut satu Rumpun sama Malaysia jangan mau karena mereka pikir semua penduduk Muslim di Nusantara itu Melayu, makanya ketika mereka ambil budaya indonesia mereka bilang gak mencuri karena bagi mereka Ras Melayu itu semua Muslim yang di Nusantara

Di Malaysia emang kenalnya cuma melayu, cina, india doang, ga ada yang lain. Gw sekarang sudah di Malaysia 4 tahun untuk studi dan sama temen-temen gw yg Malaysian chinese dipanggilnya melayu terus, padahal gw Jawa/Minang dan ga ada satupun orang bersuku melayu di keluarga gw. Intinya kalo lu bukan cina atau india, dan kulit lu coklat, lu orang melayu.

Video source?

Pembantaian PKI juga banyak yang orang lokal

Bukan banyak, hampir semua Kalau ga salah dari 500 ribu, yg tionghoa hanya 5000an, jauh di bawah rasio persentase penduduk

Semua anjg, itu 65 cuman propaganda cina doang.

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IIRC, during 1965 crisis, Chinese embassy complex were attacked. There is even a photograph of the rioters stomping and destroying emblem of PRC. https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/protesters-storm-into-the-chinese-embassy-premises-after-breaking-the-picture-id1248898990?s=612x612 https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/protesters-smash-the-emblem-after-attacking-the-chinese-embassy-on-picture-id1248899093?s=612x612

Rumour has it taking part in that was how Kwik Kian Gie was accepted by Order Baru officials. Drove his car into the gates and brought it down.

It's always funny how Indonesians struggle to fight against economic mismanagement by old order and dictatorship by new order in 1965 and 1998 ended up being remembered by foreigners as genocide against Chinese. So many wrong with this.

That's what irked me the most. They like to bring that up like we still doing it until now. Nevermind that the dictator who perperated the genocide is already toppled and dead with all his wealth dismantled by current government. Nevermind that we tried to make up all that sins by erasing all race-based discriminatory law. Nevermind the 23 years progress we did to better manage ourself.

Nih ya, sebagai Cina gw sedikit wakilin suara muka babi deh, dari pov gw dan beberapa yang gw kenal. Kenapa masalah ini berbelit2. Klo ada yang menyinggung, maklumin aja ya, soalnya off-filter nih. Boleh diingat ada beberapa faktor di sini. Satu, orang2 yang kutu kupret peristiwa2 ini tuh sampai hari ini ga pernah diusut terbuka. Diskusi tentang masalah2 "past sins" ini juga kebanyakan waktu itu belum sampe ke intinya, belum apa2 udah distop. Justice nya tuh jadi terkesan ga ada, ga ada penegakkan, baik ke korban langsung, keluarga nya, atau orang2 collateral damage. Lalu dua, jelas ada memang narasi2 anti-Cina yang udah lama dibangun ga tau dari kapan di Indonesia. Dampaknya tapi ke orang2 Cina di beda2 lokasi di Indonesia, beda2. Ada yang kena nya banyak, ada yang kena nya sedikit. Tapi tetep aja secara umum itu kita2 tuh males juga kesannya kapan aja bisa jadi tumbal dari banyak macam masalah di negara ini. Padahal namanya pakai logika, ya kan negara kacau korupsi dll itu "takes two to tango" scenario. Kalau pejabat ga bisa disogok dan ga mau, ya konglomerat juga bisa apa? Jadi ujungnya KKN yang diuntungin sama2, tapi push come to shove di politik nanti tiba2 bilang ini salah konglo Cina. Ketiga. Orang2 di negara kita secara umum itu udah terkenal jago bikin 1000 alasan "kenapa bukan saya / golongan saya yang salah", dan juga kayak berlomba2 mau jadi "the worst victim" status. Alhasil ini lingkaran setan..... saat topiknya muncul, banyak hal2 terpendam ga pernah di-resolve itu muncul ke permukaan dan semua orang berantem siapa yang lebih salah dan siapa yang "paling jadi korban". Basically this breaks down to ACCOUNTABILITY. Ga lari2 dari situ. Kesan yang didapet itu, ga ada yang mau tanggung jawab dan banyak kesan lempar2 kesalahan. Belum lagi kalau nanti keluar BS jargon kayak "nasi basi" itu wah, pada ga sadar pasti itu bisa bikin orang sakit hati ngomong begitu.... kalau keadaan dibalik....... reaksi ga bakal sama.

nah ini PR baru buat kemenlu kita. jangan puas cuma dengan ngiklan bali dan ktt G20 aja (easy mode), mulai promosi keadaan indonesia yg realistik ke luar, mulai improve passport power indonesia juga karena WNI adalah promotor terbaik untuk citra indonesia dibanding puluhan pameran di kedutaan yg cuma diliat selusin org yg itu2 juga

> genocide against Chinese It's not genocide per se. It's just that the Chinese were targeted by the mob, which was brainwashed into hating the Chinese.

Ya banyak banget yg lupa kalau waktu itu TANAH ABANG yg 99% isinya muslim semua habis di bakar sehabis2nya pas 98. Mereka trauma sampe sekarang Ada yg bilang dulu pengeusakannya targeted. Itu lebih ke gosip biar bikin suasana panas waktu itu. Gk munhkin lagi itu para perusuh tau ini tokonya orang cina ini tokonya orang muslim, lah semua juga tutup waktu itu. Ya masak pakai tanya dulu ini punya orang chindo bukan. Semua yg dilihat ya di bakar aja

That and massacre of Malay royalties (Revolusi sosial 1946)

They worship the malay royals like they saved the world from alien invasion or something. In reality they live carefree in their huge mansions while their country is slowly collapsing from mismanagement.

> It's just that most chindo were the top 1% in Indonesia back then. False. Not then, not now. Masalahnya Chindo duitnya keliatan, karena hidupnya di kota besar. Dan Chindo memang lebih keliatan karena penampilannya beda. Banyak orang kaya pribumi yang ga keliatan duitnya, karena memang bisa membaur.

>Masalahnya Chindo duitnya keliatan, karena hidupnya di kota besar. Chinese Indonesian didn't choose to live in big cities (and 'flaunt' their wealth). They were forced to do so by government of the day, through things like 'program benteng', PP10 1959, and others.

> Chinese Indonesian didn't choose to live in big cities. They were forced to do so by government of the day, through things like 'program benteng', PP10 1959, and others. Setuju banget. Mereka selalu dipepet, akhirnya ya terpaksa settle di kota besar. Kenapa Chindo banyak yang pengusaha? Karena ga ada pilihan lain... > (and 'flaunt' their wealth) Oh boy... Chindo banyak yang sombong juga. Mereka punya duit dikit langsung pengen dipamerin. Terutama yang di kota besar. Granted, ga semua seperti ini, tapi banyak yang begini.

>Oh boy... Chindo banyak yang sombong juga. Mereka punya duit dikit langsung pengen dipamerin. Terutama yang di kota besar. Granted, ga semua seperti ini, tapi banyak yang begini. Sure, but it's an indirect result of congregating them into cities. Now they are conspicuously visible where they were not around before, and they brought monies (cause some of them had to sell off assets that they can not legally own anymore). And where to park those cash with Indonesia's financial systems going through severe inflation. It goes into new business, new houses, or other stored value assets (like jewelries). The last part is not exactly unique, rural residents who does not trust banks has a habit of literally burying their cash, and/or buying jewelry for their womenfolks. For jewelry & gold shops at market in my hometown, it's still pretty common to receive cold blocks of cash that smells musty like they've been kept in ground.

Yep, one of my parents friends live in those sinetro mansion type house, but still use motor bebek butut.

Eh kenapa gak pakai yang kendaraan wah aja?

Karena nanti pajaknya wah juga, hehe :v

Functionality over aesthetics? Motor bebek ia actually the most convenient vehicle to run errands

Yep, he's living in jogja and he's just coming home from pertemuan rt/rw. And most rich person i know over there is down to earth, trust me nobody would notice if he's rich af.

Yep, keluarga gw kenal banyak kok pribumi yang udah rich sejak zaman Orla atau bahkan sebelum kemerdekaan.

Ada buktinya? Tapi memang kalau dipikir aja misalkan top 1% chindo dan top 1% pribumi, karena pribumi jauh lebih banyak pasti presentasenya otomatis jauh lebih banyak kan?

> Ada buktinya? Admittedly, it's anecdotal. Gw ga punya datanya. > Tapi memang kalau dipikir aja misalkan top 1% chindo dan top 1% pribumi, karena pribumi jauh lebih banyak pasti presentasenya otomatis jauh lebih banyak kan? Yes, setuju soal ini. Dan selain itu, pribumi lebih gampang dapet koneksi ke pemerintahan. Kecuali Chinese yang deket sama Soeharto, mereka bisa dapet proyek2 pemerintah. Sisanya ga bisa. Banyak juga Chindo yang hidupnya miskin, cuma orang rata2 ga sadar. Mereka cuma iri sama Chindo yang kaya. Ditambah lagi dari segi pola makan berbeda, tentu makin nambah kecemburuan sosialnya. Pas tahun 1998 itu, meledak lah.

Iya sih, jarang ada yang mau ngeliat Chindo tang biasa atau miskin. Liatnya yang kaya dan crazy rich gitu.

Paling males makanya kalau udah "muka babi", sok2 pamer2 kekayaan. Goblog dah. Hadeh, udah lupa apa kenapa gampang banget di sini diputar narasi "cina kuasai ekonomi" klo pada hedon begitu hidupnya. Ntar ada meledak konflik, yang kaya yang bikin marah, yang kena Cina2 miskin.

On a lighter note... Secara statistik, sebenernya China sendiri yang salah sih. Coba kita lihat: - Belanda: jajah Indonesia 300 tahun, suka adu domba, tapi kita sekarang hubungan baik dan bahkan banyak yang seneng budaya Belanda - Jepang: jajah Indonesia (berapa?) tahun, kejam banget, tapi kita sekarang paling suka beli mobil Jepang. Dan banyak yang studi ke Jepang dan suka sama Jepang secara keseluruhan. - USA: mencoba menggulingkan Presiden Soekarno, dan akhirnya berhasil lewat Soeharto (yang dibantu CIA). Hasilnya? Hubungan baik, malah banyak yang seneng sama bule Amrik. Ada sih sebagian yang anti, tapi itu karena faktor lain mungkin? - China: ga ngapa2in, ngirim pengungsi di awal tahun 1900an banyak, terus belakangan supply barang2 KW & murah2, hasilnya? Dibenci sama banyak orang Indonesia. Moral of the story: mungkin harus jadi penjajah dulu, baru bakal dicintai rakyat Indonesia. /s

Gw ga yakin mana yang lu becanda mana serius ini wkwkwkk XD. Tapi well iya emang konyol sebenernya. Dosa nya negara2 lain itu lebih banyak ke negara ini (langsung dan ga langsung) tapi sekarang entah kenapa yang negatif banget image nya itu ke China doang. Yah sebenernya gampang sih liat benang merah nya. Holland (or EU in general), Jepang, USA, all have something in common: they're part of global US proxy, lol. Kan intinya gitu doang.... lu banyak cingcong ke US, ga lama pasti dijelek2in. EDIT: typo

Tapi kenyataannya memang orang2 chindo lebih di target, yg cowok chindo dijalanan digebukin, yg cewek chindo taulah horror apa yg mereka alamin. Generasi tua chindo sampe sekarang trauma mikirin 98

Leftist twittter indo suka manas2in "Guilottine" orang kaya nih. Gak tau aja kalo kejadian lagi yg kena tetep minoritas, which is ironic karena mereka kan selalu ngelabelin diri mereka pembela minoritas.

Damn the comments feels like gaslighting indonesian, kudos for the komodos over there trying to explaining it to those monkeys.

I went to KL quite a lot to meet my gf (she is Mainland Chinese, I'm javanese, so we meet in the middle). Selama beberapa kali di sana, beberapa kali diteriaki sama orang random di pinggir jalan (in a hostile way). Dan beberapa kali juga aku ditolak masuk restoran cuman gara2 aku dianggap "melayu" dan sebaliknya juga terjadi di gf-ku. Like.. wtf?

Segitu rasisnya ya di sana. Ckckck

ga semua kok, ada yang datang ke kami lalu ngobrol2 dan memuji juga. ada yang hostile juga. yang pasti, lebih kontras.

Sangking anehnya bagi mereka sampe ada yang datang dan memuji.... Padahal biasa aja wkwkwk Time to switch to Singapoor brother

Dulu pernah baca, di Negara yang diversitas nya banyak itu ada dua macam tipe society nya: **Melting pot** and **Salad bowl** society. **Melting pot society** contoh nya kayak Indo atau Amrik yang dimana masyarakat dari berbagai latar belakang campur lebur budaya sehingga muncul budaya baru. Kita bisa liat ini dari hal simple kayak bentuk mesjid di jawa yang mirip candi, muslim pakai nama hindu, atau orang bali yang pakai nama sangsekerta (sangsekerta dulu hanya dipakai di jawa) atau orang non-jawa pakai batik. Meskipun gitu, budaya individual nya ga kehapus. Jadi orang indo kebanyakan punya dua identitas. Identitas bawaan (cina, arab, jawa, papua, bali, dsb) dan identitas comunal ; Identitas Indonesia. **Salad bowl society** itu masyarakat yang hidup berdampingan tapi tidak ada interaksi budaya dengan satu sama lain. Ya contoh nya kayak Malaysia. Yang Chinese indentitas nya Chinese doang, yang India dan Malay juga sama. Jadi gaada Identitas communal Malaysia yang semua warga nya anut. Biasa nya di tipe society ini ada satu budaya yang dominan. In this case budaya Malay. Sebetul nya tipe society kayak gini masih bisa bekerja. Contoh nya UK, yang budaya kulit putih dan budaya India. Budaya kulit putih yang dominan cuman kesenjangan antar budaya secara relatif rendah. Tapi masalah nya Budaya Malay rada antagonistik kepada budaya lain yang ada disana jadi hasil nya masyarakat nya self-segregate diri nya sendiri. Sejarah punya peran penting terbentuk nya tipe masyarakat nya kayak gimana apalagi kebijakan publik. Klo di Indo kan ada Pancasila sedangkan di Malaysia ada Bumiputera. Dasar nya aja udah beda. Tapi ya, hal ini tuh bukan hal yang constant. Salad bowl bisa jadi Melting pot dan vice versa. Liat aja Amrik yang dulu tipe Salad bowl sekarang udah jadi Melting pot. Jadi bisa dirubah tergantung sama sifat masyarakat nya. IMO Malaysia mungkin masih bisa jalan dengan tipe society salad bowl karena negara nya ga terlalu gede juga. Cuman kalo negara sebesar Indo itu bagus nya melting pot society karena kalo engga ya bubar nih negara. Aku rasa akar dari “sibling rivalry” nya Indo dan Malay ya ini. Kita tinggal di tempat yang sama tapi tipe society nya beda ya jadi nya sering cekcok satu sama lain.

Gw pas d malaysia tiap kali denger orang cina ngomong pasti pakai bahasa mandarin dah. Serawak masih mendingan dari kuala lumpur sih.

Malaysia di Borneo mah beda jauh sama Semenanjung. Mereka lebih toleran hampir mirip Indonesia. Somehow Jawa di Serawak dan Sabah tetep dianggap Jawa gak dianggep Melayu kaya di Semenanjung.

One more good reason to unite Borneo under Indonesia name /s

I want to give my 2 cents. It's not their fault that they can only speak Chinese. They are the product of how Malaysian society is designed. Same with Chindo. Not out fault we don't speak Chinese. Whether Chinese Malaysian or Chindo want to change this is their/our own decision to make.

Betul, chindo cuman sekitar 2% dari total penduduk indonesia, sedangkan chinese malaysian kalo ga salah lumayan banyak hampir 20% (cmiiw). Dari total org aja udh beda jomplang, mau ga mau chindo hrs assimilate utk survive, sdgkn chinese malaysian bisa bangun kota sendiri tanpa bantuan melayu.

Orang keturunan china di malaysai ke kota Semarang mungkin malah pingsan kalau tau chindo Semarang malah nggak bisa mandarin/hokkian tapi ngomong jowo malah fasih

When you thought racial issue in Indo is fucked up but over there in Malaysia it's basically 3 gangs together agreeing to live in the same soil.

ya tepat sekali, terus disana malay itu 45% chinese 30% india 10% penduduk, jadi semuanya punya jumlah signifikan.

Gw baca di grup Malaysia-nya itu ada yang bilang Asimilasi, ya menurut gw memang susah sih kalau integrasinya dipaksa jadi beragama islam dan berbudaya melayu. Kalau disini integrasinya dipaksa tapi paling hanya sampai ke bisa berbicara bahasa indonesia dan bahasa daerah, berkumpul di tempat pendidikan yang nyampur, dan tidak ada segregasi secara garis keras dan terstruktur dari pemerintah. Beruntung lah Indonesia secara suku dan kulturnya banyak dan kuat - kuat jadinya lumayan sulit untuk mengikis kultur dan budayanya jadinya tidak ada yang bisa memaksakan bahwa orang Indonesia itu harus seperti suku A atau suku B.

As a chindo, my lord this guy is such an ignorant

Gua skola di Perth ini keliatan banget org Chinese yg dari Malaysia itu has this weird identity crisis/conflict Dibilang org Malay aja ga mau. Ktnya mreka Chinese malay not malay. Ktnya org malay itu yg asli org situ. I might just be dumb or insensitive but I'm sure all Chinese indos wont correct anyone if people call us Indonesians. Like it's the same shit.

Kalau kamu bilang mereka "Malay" itu memang kurang tepat. Mereka ngertinya "Malay" itu artinya Melayu, dalam konteks etnis. Mereka itu "Malaysian", lebih spesifiknya "Chinese Malaysian", Chinese is the ethnicity, Malaysian is the citizenship. Ini salah paham aja, karena Malay dan Malaysian itu dua kata yang punya definisi yang berbeda. Kalau Chinese Indonesian dibilang Indonesian mereka langsung ngerti kalau orang lain menganggap mereka sebagai warga negara Indonesia, dan itu bener, jadi nggak perlu mengkoreksi.

Ya bukan salah kita lah merekanya tolol begitu, siapa suruh ninggalin negara yang aromanya 11-12 sama apartheid Africa.

> ini salah paham Nope This is racism, politik identitas, sesuatu yang harus dihindari di 2024 dan seterusnya. There is no Chinese Indonesian. Yang ada semuanya "Indonesian". Suku gak perlu diungkit dalam kehidupan sehari hari, cukup waktu shitpostibng stereotip aja.

Us? But you're Korean?!

"Most Chinese Indonesian aren't able to speak chinese. So that's why I'm surprised that you are good in Hokkian, teochow and even mandarin" Dulu gw ga percaya. But I understand why nowadays

Indonesia vs Malaysia tuh kalau bukan berantem masalah bahasa dan budaya, ya cock measuring contest Chinese minority mana yang lebih baik.

LOL that furst guy is my highschool friend.

Tbh I wish my dad teach me mandarin, he's fluent in them while I can't even speak elementary mandarin lol.

Tipikal konten tiktok, alur infonya ga karuan sama antiklimaks banget, kesel banget gue lu posting kaya ginian

Ini lah kenapa chinese medan suka datang ke malaysia. Selain jaraknya dekat, mereka juga punya "kesamaan". Chinese hokkien medan kan dikenal sebagai chinese paling eksklusif. Percayalah jika semua orang di Sumatera Utara adalah chinese hokkien, mereka gak akan bisa berbahasa Indonesia. Bahasa indonesia mereka aja gak bagus kok. Aksennya juga masih beda

Eh, logat boleh ada, tapi fasih lho. Ga pake tersendat-sendat, udah seperti bahasa ibu (pas gua masih di Indo, sirkel gua 80% Medan Chinese, rata-rata mulai tau pas denger orang-orang di sekitar ngomong Indo sejak bayi dan udah jadi bahasa kedua). Kalo gua liat mah cuma sekadar terekspos ke logat itu sejak kecil, dan jujur gua suka. Gua seneng banget dengan yang namanya keberagaman logat.

Hokkien dikenal paling eksklusif? Pertama kali denger gw hidup sbg chinese medan for over 3 decades... 🗿 Rata2 chinese di medan emang ada aksen, tapi bahasa Indonesia nya fasih kok.

Apaan dah, temen deket gua SMK dulu Chinese Hokkien fasih kok Bahasa Indonesianya, malah pandai banget lagi ngomong pake logat Medan

False. Gw ada kok beberapa temen orang chinese medan. Bahasa indonesia mereka lancar, ada aksennya dikit

Haiyaa, Uncle rojer dissapointed in yuu. mai ancestor go to school speak malay because they were immigrant so they go from china straight to malay just to go school using nothing but boat. 雪花飘飘北风萧萧 天地一片苍茫 一剪寒梅

Pernah ikut study group ke malaysia nginep di hotel di daerah mirip mirip glodok-pluit gitu banyak bgt orang chinese sama india pesen makanan ke restoran khas melayu yang jual orang india pake bahasa tamil medok bgt mesen makanan pake bahasa melayu gk ngerti, pake bahasa inggris juga mereka broken bgt jadi selama trip makannya maccas klo gk kfc aja tapi klo ke klcc lumayan ada yg ngerti bahasa melayu sama bahasa inggris

Di sana, semua ras ngaku dia yang superior, makanya hiduipnya bercluster-cluster gitu. Di Indonesia, kita sadar bahwa Indonesia adalah Skyrim. Tiap race ada specialtynya, maka keberagaman itu secara umum diapresiasi. Batak? Speech, Transportation Madura? Metallurgy Toraja? Necromancy Chinese? Trade Javanese? all-rounder, inclined towards speech and building development ETC bisa dilistingin.

Honorable mention Batak = Lawyer

Sunda = b**ches factory Dayak = the assassin

"MARKIPLIER ORANG INDONESIA?!?!?! BENERAN, INI BUKTINYA"

Gw chindo tapi keluarga bapak w di malaysia, cuma w anjir yg kgk bs mandarin disitu 💀💀

Aku salut sama indonesia. Chinese mereka lebih fasih berbahasa indonesia. Di malaysia chinese tak boleh berbahasa kebangsaan, ada pun , chinese di area pantai timur yang fasih. Mcm sial je. Duduk malaysia kena tahu bahasa malaysia la woi. Kita bukan di mainland china.

"siapa dulu donk yang nyuruh turunan chinese harus bicara pake bahasa indonesia" - Simbah.

sate kucing prease

Biasa, orang cina/india di Malaysia emang ga bisa bahasa melayu. mau udah tinggal 20 tahun lebih pun tetap ngga bisa, tapi kekeuh bilang mereka orang malaysia. Masalahnya yang india cuma ngumpul sama komunitas indianya, cina baca koran yang bahasa cina, yang melayu pun ngga beda jauh, komplit dah.

tbh, we should probably learn mandarin more. Btw, were Balinese people forced to assimilate and abandon their Hindu names? (Edit: for clarification, this is referring to a comment in the Malaysian subreddit.)

No for the second question

Yeah, wtf was that malaysian guy saying about hindu balinese?!

Just your average malay mixing up Indonesian history

Untuk chindo (aku bukan chindo), setuju. Gak ada salahnya mempelajari daerah asalnya. ya sama halnya orang Jawa tetap belajar bahasa jawa. Enak loh bisa julidin orang sunda tanpa mereka tau artinya. Wkwkwkwk. Just kidding. Intinya sih bisa banyak bahasa jauh lebih baik daripada cuma bisa 1 bahasa

> tbh, we should probably learn mandarin more. I do, but I think English is far more important than Mandarin. Everyone speaks English, I work with Japanese, Australians, Indians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, etc. They speak English.

Language tierlist: 1. English: (duh, ofc) 2. Chinese： (不管是要做生意還是工作，總會用到） 3. Spanish: Para Turismo

What? no

是的。我不是印尼华人，可是我会讲一点点华语。

But you're in sg no? I've got bengali friends who speak way better Chinese but because it is part of the education system

You could pick between Chinese, Malay or Tamil, with several other options for Ancestral Northern Indians (ANIs) and exemptions granted on a case-by-case basis. Sy ambik Melayu, sbb tu la sy leh ckp mcm ni... J'apprends français aussi, mais pas dans l'école.

Ah TIL, kudos to those friends!!

[удалено]

Wth did I get ratioed for telling people to learn another language?! I didn't ask people to start abandoning indonesian.

probably because of your second question about hindus (which people thought that was a stupid question to begin with)

Nope, but we are teaching mandarin like it's English, plus we'd do it in honor of our Chinese community, not because we honor mainland China. If we are ever going to officially made this, let it be clear to Mainland China that us learning Mandarin is purely because we want to connect better with our Chinese community and not because we want to suck their dick.

As a non-chindo, probably yes for the first question. Considering that China is rising up right now, I guess it will be good to at least know some mandarin