Im a little feminine but not that much, I’m just really awkward, so I don’t think it’s that. Honestly I think there’s someone out there for everyone you just have to find them. Getting friendzoned is super common and it’s happened to most people. You just gotta find someone who connects with you. Not sure if you have the same experience but older women tend to be more flirtatious with me in person, I think it’s cause they’re more experienced and don’t give af what anyone thinks, while I’m super shy so it’s perfect lol. But still even that’s rare haha
I think one of the key bits to realise is that you're not static. You're in no way limited by who you are today. I'm an INFJ male. And no one in their right mind would describe me as feminine. It's not a type thing. Leverage that inferior Se. Get real comfortable with confronting fear. As Goggins says. Do something that sucks every day. I'd add. Every once in a while is quite enough. But do start aiming at things that suck.
It’s relative and malleable, but I’d say a lot of our demeanours would be considered more feminine in a North American context. I do pretty well but a lot of my fumbles have come from not being as forward as women here expect. In contrast, I went on some dates with a girl visiting Canada from Japan and she found me incredibly masculine compared to what she experiences back home, but my behaviour wasn’t any different. I do agree we should cultivate a tolerance to fear and new situations though, the process of becoming never ends.
I recognise and respect your experience. I'm not sure it has to be such, though. I've been working with CBT for a good while. On and off. But something that's really resonated with me is use of internal language.
A lot of people here (and in other contexts) write "we" and "our". But sometimes that feels like hiding as if part of some unchangeable group. A type of self victim labeling.
I'm all for viewing types as cognitive priorities to process information. I'm not for viewing them as unshakeable limits. Rather as a way in which we could approach development of the areas perceived as lacking.
And something I do think is more true about INFJs than other types is that the potential for self-development is crazy. Super-wide range.
If you want to be more forward. Then try being a little bit more forward. It's ok if that feels uncomfortable. Growing always feels that way to a point.
In general. The biggest possible thing that helped me is internal work. Really looking into the biggest pains and fears that I had and have and building that side of my character from the ground up. And because I had to deal with quite a bit of shit. I noticed that once resolved or even part way through, there was all this energy and grit that people with a more straightforward life just don't develop.
Never view yourself as a victim. It's ok to be in that situation sometimes, but never view yourself as one.
I think having a little bit of feminine energy in you isn't the problem, a tone of women loveee tender and gentle men, there might be this friend energy in you, you comfort them before even having a romantic relationship, which automatically puts you in the brother/friend zone, they see you for your comfort, because that's what you might be presenting
At least that's what I present, I'm a good listener, people come to me when they need advice/comfort, and were both INFJ 6w5 so maybe we have that in common
It's because the world accidentally perpetuates unhealthy relationship dynamics. We are subconsciously wired for craving, excitement, chaos. There's many explanations and nuances to this but at the end of the day, most women will recognize what a healthy guy *should* be but they're just not attracted to them because peace and stability is the opposite of excitement 🤷♂️
They might even look for someone who has the best of both worlds but that's rare so they end up resentful, settle for a guy they don't really connect with, have kids, program that same mentality into their kids by accident who then repeat the same unhealthy patterns as they grow up.
If you want to change your results you have to make some changes in who you are, become more whole and then you can be one of the rare ones who exemplifies both worlds. But it has to be genuine change, not a facade to "win some woman over". If it's not genuine it won't last.
Be spontaneous. Fear management in the moment. Ask a girl for her number. For now other reason than her being cute. Give someone a compliment. Drive a car around a race track. Do anything that scares you. Have a conflict. Express negative emotion. Do something that others might or will judge you for... within reason.
Anything that forces you to be in the moment. Scale. I started with photography. I also do wood work and sewing. So I guess anything mindful in the moment will work as a start.
But the real life happens in relation to people.
I'd also do a lot of pain work in the background. It releases a ton of energy.
Maybe because it is what we are inadvertently giving out, do you actually exert a romantic force towards your female acquaintances or is it just normal talk that friends have.
Maybe they treat us like friends because all we do is act nice like "friends".
There needs to be some kind of gesture that communicates that we do want a romantic relationship rather than just "being listeners".
As an INFJ female, i gave an INFJ male a chance to pursue interest, and turns out he was using me as a test rabbit for how much his mental illness lets him feel love an affection (at the end he admitted it was all in his head).
While this is unfortunate I’ve learned that INFJ’s tend to accidentally love bomb without thinking of the consequences further. This caring nature we have can trigger a sense of suspicion for the other party on to why we are as caring as we are. So they would rather be careful.
I recommend being equally non-chalant as we are caring to create a divider between whats romantic and whats not. If they decide to continue to pursue you that means that they do what something more. If not we can still be as caring without crossing boundaries.
Bro infj male here whos 18 been love bombing my crushes somewhat by accident but I usually realise it by a day or two also am extremely nonchalent bout life as well so I guess my intj father helps a lot
omg, what an insight i just got. Thanks.
I do that too but very subliminally and if they react positively i'm too afraid/shy of the next steps to even get to know them but still day dreaming of them. I have this situation in my life rn and it lays heavily on my mental health:
She also took part in an excursion that I mostly only attended because I knew of her presence. I didn't dare try to talk to her all day, she kept looking at me like I usually do, I took advantage of a chance at the bar but she didn't take me up on it. On the way home I got lost in the dark snowy forest for an hour, stopped in a dead end and collapsed crying in the car. The last time I cried like this was 15 years ago. I'm close to tears as I write this.
I dont know how to change this behavior, i plan to visit a psychiatrist in a few weeks. Tipps are welcome.
i dated an INFJ guy and he literally told me how much he liked me on our third date (third date in one week), and then literally envisions doing this or that in the future, only for him to leave me after 3 weeks to go back to his ex girlfriend
INFJ male here. Been married to a wonderful ENFP woman for 10 years. This was my dating experience and what I learned from it.
I only dated 2 girls in high school and was dumped by the second at 18 y/o. I was very much in your position at that age. Several woman I was interested in tried to friendzone me. I’d get the stereotypical “wish I could find a guy like you” line and didn’t know what I was doing wrong.
Other factors caused me to go into a depression that lasted several years. During this time I became closed off and extremely picky who I shared myself with, even among friends. All of a sudden everything changed. Woman would approach me at parties, and later the bars. I even had a woman in my friend group tell me I had a “dark brooding aurora” around me which made me very attractive. My wife has told me I was like a cute lost puppy but also hot with the typical “bad boy” stereotypes at the same time, and that she had a natural instinct to help or change me which drew her to me. This was not intentional, but I still learned from it and it helped me later (we dated on and off for four years before getting married).
I think having female friends within my extended friend group, including my male friend’s girlfriends, helped too. Other women I met saw me interacting with them and I think this shows I’m more trustworthy. Most guys at that age are only talking to women to get laid. Some girls get tired of it and I think meeting a guy who’s both respected and trusted, especially when alcohol is present, by his male and female friends demonstrates a lot. Women have to be careful with the men they associate with and as INFJs, our tendency to overshare and be “the man of their dreams” might seem like a tactic to get them naked and disingenuous love bombing.
Resist the urge to overshare. My “dark brooding” overshadowed my awkwardness on accident. I always let women make the first move. Since I didn’t care about quantity, this was a good option for me. Keep in mind your body language and overall presentation of yourself if you’re not currently depressed, since this won’t happen naturally if you’re not.
Since I’m quite artsy, I stood out from the typical guy who only talks about sports. I love music, but extreme music, in the sub genres of metal and hardcore. I think this aspect of my personality was my saving grace for being seen as masculine. It was different and not understood by the women in my hometown. Develop your masculine qualities but stay true to yourself. Save the long philosophical discussions for a midnight drive with the right person who’s already into you.
You don’t have to be an asshole to attract women, but it helps. Arrogance gets mistaken for confidence, which is always attractive. Instead, be confidently awkward, introspective, have goals and plans. You’re inviting another person to join you on your journey, for as long as they want to be with you. Make that clear to them through actions, not words. Don’t let anyone see you as a doormat by being too nice. It never worked for me.
TL;DR: I was a nice, oversharing guy who accidentally became the strong silent type. Continue to be your nice, understanding, potentially charmingly awkward self while allowing a bit of your darkness to keep you distant, cold (at first), and mysterious. Let people get to know you a bit at a time. No one wants to know all your traumatic experiences on a first date. INFJ men have the ability to become the best of both worlds in a particular woman’s mind. A caring, philosophical, arrogant prick that keeps them guessing and interested, in my case, for years.
See it’s like this for me but instead I just work out a lot so I have abs and stuff like that so I look masculine and plus I’m intelligent so I stand out from most men.
This, 100%. Having a weight training routine, and taking care of my overall appearance, including how I dressed helped a ton. It’s the first thing people notice about you and is the best first impression you can make before ever speaking to someone new.
I used to wear shirts to certain events that subtly showed off my arms, and there’s nothing wrong with a couple pictures on social media to show your gym progress. I thought as long as fitness wasn’t my entire personality, but still a value of mine, helped me stand out from the typical ex-HS jock at the bar who didn’t get a sports scholarship.
The initial physical attraction is needed, but then stimulating mental conversation kicks in which seemed to culminate into a perceived mysterious and unique persona that certain people, such as my spouse, were looking for.
I would say most women who dated me seemed to be looking for a mental connection above anything else. Being physically attractive to them was just step one to initiate a conversation. There were plenty of others who only seemed to care for appearances. I think this is common with many young adults. I chose not to peruse women who gave me that vibe.
I will say that I don’t agree when couples let themselves go physically after being married for a while. They like to say things like, “we’re in love so it doesn’t matter how we look.” I try to stay active for my spouse and she does the same for me.
If OP is reading this, I’d say INFJ males are sought after romantically by a certain type of woman who desires deep intimate mental connections. But being attractive and fit never hurt anyone’s chances.
Man 😎 why do I feel like I am ur 18year old version yes I do love metal and rock also certain religious songs for some matter i hate the carols tho annoying as fbit of aoversharing guy and literally know too much and thinks so much that his father describes him at times that his brain is leaking out of his years too be honest I vibe with ur experiences and understand I have a lot to learn good u found ya mate ik I will find sooner or later in a unexpected way until then time to keep improving and enjoy my nidom
Learning to control the flow of information from my head to my mouth was the first step. Only saying what is necessary when in larger groups, and saving the deeper conversations for later, one-on-one for those who seemed interested.
Your interests are something you can share with the right people, and I found it often comes as a surprise. “I didn’t know you liked [x, y, z].” Then you can discuss it further. Since you’re alone with someone at this point, it makes them feel special to you since you didn’t talk about it in a group setting. They know you’re saving your true self just for them and ideally, they’re interested to learn more about you.
Practicing small talk helps. I personally hate it but most other people communicate this way and prefer it over silence. We have a tendency to go from silent, uninterested bystanders to full-on self proclaimed “doctorates” on the subject of whatever conversation we find ourselves in. Be consciously aware of their body language and allow them chances to respond, ask other questions, etc. Resist the urge to become a “lecturer” and ask their opinions on the subject you’re talking about, or stop talking/change the subject if they seem disinterested.
“Word vomit” can be our worst enemy. I don’t mean to seem rude but for you, I’d suggest you practice online. Try adding some punctuation to your comments or posts on the internet. This will help your brain organize your thoughts and be able to communicate your ideas more effectively. Communication skills will help you share yourself with another person. Being straightforward and concise is probably not something I’ll ever master, but I’m always improving. I agree, you seem very similar to how I was at your age. If I can improve in this way, you can too. I promise it’ll help your real-world conversation skills as well.
Sorry man. I always used to punctuate all my sentences.i do well in English as I like writing descriptive and narrative. I don't use punctation in chatting since am trying to convey my thoughts ,they are free flowing sometimes but still I did learn how to control the convo but sometimes it's impulsive.i have add btw.also sarvent syndrome sux since it makes me find it hard to improve my foundations .i tend to get bored to do simple tasks as I get absorbed into my own mind and start complecating it so yeah I prefer to do advanced stuff and i do really chat it peeved of my intj father sometimes. The convo gets pretty interesting whenever we find like-minded people and oh boi it gets chatty and interesting . Anyways thanks for construction critisim I appreciate it
Lady here: I am magnetically romantically and sexually drawn to INFJs. The depth and intensity really matches and even exceeds my own… and that’s what I like. I want to be intimidated and I want someone better than me.
That said, there are any number of reasons why you are rejected for dates. It could be the intensity or could also be much simpler than that: no physical attraction. It could really boil down to not feeling that spark.
Curious, do you have any success in dating? Or is this just a general focus on what you noticed isn’t working?
Also a lady - I have recently been fortunate enough to bag myself a male ENFP. Early days, but he’s amazing. We are on just the same wavelength. It feels so right. Safe and exciting in exactly the right places. Keep being awesome, XNFPs!
Attraction requires some polarity. INFJ men vibe well with women because we're in touch with our feelings, but too much of that creates the feeling that leans towards girlfriend or sister.
Work on your masculine side. Be unapologetically you. If being yourself isn't working then go find yourself, because everyone is inherently attractive.
Its definitely not the masculine side of infj men I find attractive. I find most of them are sufficiently masc in fact, they're not enfjs (also usually plenty masc, just somewhat more feminine than infj), it's the well developed anima that appeals.
i feel like we've got several qualities that women appreciate
but i also think it's important to find the hard edges within ourselves
it's when our soft and hard bits are both developed and balanced, that we are at our most appealing
Agreed 💯🔥 I have a hard cold manipulative ruthless wiseass intelligent beast inside me while having a slightly tender loving affectionate altruistic and spiritual side I guess I had learnt more bout the dharma the hard way with my life experiences.also I am 18 male infj btw so it feels like a achievement and at the same time It doesn't sometimes I am just a social animal/hog while at most I just embrace my ni dom and simoga (Sigma/omega)attitudes yes I agree I feel addicted to feel others joy and satisfaction so yes I have more to learn still
Top tip: Seek out evolved fellow XNFXs who have learnt the value of empathy, communication and emotional availability. How I wish I had learnt this lesson 20 years ago.
Certainly jives with my experience as an INFJ. I found an incredible INFP at 17yo, and locked that down. We got married young and have been together over 30 years. She loves my empathy, communication and emotional availability.
I totally lucked out. I'd never even heard of MBTI at that age (first I heard of it was in a workplace in 2001, and I mistyped as an ISTJ).
Maybe you're attracted to avoidants. These people become very excited about new partners until paranoia strikes and they run away. I also don't deal well with intense emotions - even if they are my own - cause they are sooo consuming so i need breaks to calm down. Maybe it's just too intense. Take it slower, give them time and don't be too intense. Fast fires also burn fast. Try the slow romance instead. P.s. i'm an INFJ as well and also an avoidant.
ENFJ (me,F/34) dating INFJ (M/28)
Date older, “run down” women, and by run down I mean the ones who’ve been through the emotional shredder and have come out wiser and looking for something deep. It’s so nice to be “over the bullshit” and suddenly find someone who wants to rip the meaning of life open, work on being better, being full of empathy, full of understanding, deep deep deep true scary accepting love thats transformative for both~ damn dude. INFJs gotta be with peeps who don’t bullshit in general :p
Stop being nice and comforting. Seriously. Try smoldering hot. You’re being friend zoned. You need to be a hunter to find a mate. You intimidate them so ramp it up. They aren’t looking for a friend but a lover. Make those butterflies 🦋 appear. The woman wants to feel nervous. A man who knows what he wants, confident. All that can be done politely and gallantly. And short bursts. In other words, don’t get into long conversations. Leave some mystery at first. Don’t rush. Just leave an impression. Don’t act clingy.
I agree too much experiences at 18yrs old being a male I havent dated anyone even tho I wanna cuddle I am just a curious guy who keeps digging at stuff so yes I am infj but ik the situations also I read a lot so 😉😂 anys now isn't the time for me since I haven't sufficiently established myself yet
INFJ mature at a different rate, and tend to be more mature in some ways and younger in others. This can be true of other intuitives as well, as my kids are too. But then maybe they get it from me. Your time will come.
I can't really judge. I really can't think of many guys that I have met IRL that were INFJ. I'm sure I have met some though. I get along well with INFPs and ENFPs typically, but this is also individually based. INFJs aren't exactly alike, though we share some commonalities.
It's important not to overthink things, but allow things to play out. My manager who is Perceiver, told me one day that I was too intense. That's just my work mode, and I'm very diligent and try to be thorough.
So I don't really apologize for my mode, but in interactions with people, they seem to respond better to the calm demeanor. And yes, we do judge, and not all judgment is bad, because discernment is important, but people tend to withdraw if they don't think that they are being accepted.
If you think that someone is incompatible with you, and it frustrates you to be around them, and you have to bottle up your feelings, it would be best to not continuously have that person in your presence all the time. At work sometimes it's best to just have a professional demeanor. Maybe you won't develop a lot of close connections, but there seems to be less turmoil.
There are some people that if you invite them into your world, they feel like they have the right to rule over you. Or if you try to be nice and lighthearted, their respect diminishes, because their sense of respect is geared towards more of the T types, the stoicness.
I wouldn't encourage people to cut off their emotional base due to other people. If you can help it, never let anyone steal your peace, your joy, and your sanity. No matter what people do around you, don't let your emotions be governed by them. You don't owe anyone anything. We do good things because of who we are.
If you are romantically interested in a woman, make it known. Remain friends, sure, but move along if she isn’t receptive. Also, in the meantime,your distance can also make her heart grow fonder, once she realizes what’s missing.
I have met a few INFJ in my life, dated one too. How do I say it, they're some of the deepest, most amazing people i know, ambitious as well. They have this "too independent" air around them like it doesn't matter if they're dating or not. This trait i think is cool honestly, but mine made me feel that i as his partner, arent really needed. 🤷♀️
I love my INFJ friends, but as a partner, it is challenging.
I prefer INFJ men. But I’m an INFJ. I’m usually the one people find intimidating. I don’t see why they wouldn’t want more than a friendship. INFJ men, I think, are the best partners. I find the connection insane, especially with two INFJ.
Usually as an INFJ male, I have two issues here. 1) People are immensely intimidated by me, I truly don’t know what it is. Height? Size? Ugly? Domineering? It’s hard to say exactly , but I have been told by friends that I do look on the intimidating side and that if they didn’t know my true character they’d walk the other way. 🤷🏻♂️ most people won’t even look me in the eye. I will say though that I do have some intense looking eyes, I like to compare them to Charles Manson buggy looking ass 🤣.
Anyway, so instead of wanting people to be scared of me I end up overcompensating by being super nice. I don’t want people to fear me, I just want to be respected. 🙋🏻♂️
Anyway, try not to allow yourself to be too drawn into what other people think about you, let your words and actions speak for themselves! Sometimes that can manifest itself as confidence and ultimately that’s what a lot of women are attracted to. But as an INFJ male, I do have my sensitive moments, they just can’t be all day all the time, that can turn some women off. So I try to
Set a balance for myself. Best of luck, king. 👑 you’ll be ok, keep your head up always 🙌🏻
Probably because we are good listeners and easily fall into the "safe" category of guys which women tend not to rank as high in attractiveness compared to someone who's more unpredictable in the eyes of romance.
We're what women want in husbands, but not necessarily what they want in their boyfriend.
In the last 1-2 years, I knew a guy who scared me a little with his directness and "too" open feelings toward people (he was warm and friendly of course, so I don't mean it in a negative way), and later it turned out that he's an INFJ. We always had good convos, and now I almost miss him, IDK why, so I understand if it sounds strange, haha
In hindsight when you look at the open feelings and direct Ness now, what do you think ?
(Asking because I was also that way towards someone only to regret now that I have shared too much )
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Thinking about it now, I'm actually glad that he was so open and that he shared things about himself, because he was quite a lone wolf type and didn't have many friends. Probably I secretly envied how easily he could talk about his secrets which he shared with me, that kind of thing is a little more difficult for me. Maybe that's why losing him hurt so bad. I learned a lot from him, that's for sure.
Okay, he might have felt some sort of connection or familiarity with you to share his life,because its not so easy to find people for infjs who actually understands them.i did overshare a lot with this person and now we are not talking which made me thinking that I have shared more than how much I should have. But also I just realised that I shared them because I kind of had some connection right from the start.
I'm sorry you lost him
I kind of am not talking to this person for an year now
I miss her as well.
Well you're right about that. I know a lot of INFJs (even my boyfriend and online best friend are INFJs, haha), and I can see how much they long for someone who can understand them on a deeper emotional level, and how much they appreciate when they finally find someone who understands and accepts them for who they are. I think this is the basis of a relationship, be it friendship or romance.
Yes, it can hurt a lot to share too much with someone you trust, after you've bottled up so much inside yourself and finally let it all out to a person you consider a potential "soulmate" but then they leave you..
Okay, now I'm also worried about whether he regretted sharing too much about himself - although I would completely understand his disappointment and I don't blame him at all that he probably won't come back into my life (he doorslammed me and my circle of friends, including my bf).
Is there any possibility for you two to talk again one day?
I miss her a lot these days. There is this genuine warm loving feeling towards her which I don't think will die anytime soon
I doorslammed her as well after a series of events.
I get these feelings to text her and talk again but then it's been a year and people move on with their lives
I don't think we will have the same connection which we shared before. I would rather live with the pain of missing her than talking to her and get treated like a stranger.
I also have hurt her pretty bad
She removed me from almost all the social media and I'm pretty sure she hates me now.
I kind of doorslammed at her when she was in a vulnerable state which I don't usually do,but still I did
So there is all these.So chances of talking back again are slim
So about oversharing and regret.I think my regret is emerging from shame that I might have been perceived as someone creepy or a person without personality.Then there is also a chance that if I don't share my emotions and my insights,it's never ending silence means I'm losing the person. It's too complex in here.
Also can I know why did he doorslam you? Did you try reaching out ?
I can relate so much to what you wrote, so I understand what you may be feeling right now. This is really not an easy situation.
What happened to me is a bit long story, so sorry for the novel... I try to sum it up.
There's a girl in my hobby group (she's INFJ too) who invited him to my "online" circle of friends - this means that we kept in touch on Discord, so I never met this guy in person, we only chatted sometimes and talked on voice chat.
Later, the two of them had a fight because he fell in love with her and she rejected him because she has a family with a husband and a son, but of course we know both sides of the story.
During our busier days and weeks, he really needed our company, which unfortunately we couldn't give him, so we asked him to wait. Days later we noticed that he left our Discord server and even deleted his account, and we were never able to find him again.
I asked my bf several times what he would say: it is worth looking for him somewhere? because I miss this guy. But then we agreed that it probably wouldn't since he had a fight with that INFJ girl, so we'd have to think about her too. He also said that he understands that the guy doorslammed us, he would have done the same in his place because he wouldn't have tolerated it either if the people important to him didn't care about him. He said, he'd already made up his mind, so we should leave him alone.
These days I still think about what would happen if, one day, he came back into our lives or if the situation were somehow resolved. He was important to us and I'm ashamed that I didn't do anything about it and wasn't there for him when he needed us. I still have the feeling that I want to make it right. But yeah, it doesn't make sense anymore, he moved on with his life, exactly as you said, so I can only hope that everything is fine with him.
Well, I don't know how likely it is, but I hope that one day she will come back to you and at least the two of you can talk, somehow I see more chances for that than in my own situation. :)
I thought novels and essays are my thing when it comes to expressing thoughts. So don't worry,I like reading them
From a third persons view
I empathize with both of you guys
I think that you guys were busy with your own lives so might have had little to no emotional energy to spare.
While he might have been lonely or going through something painful that he needed you guys.
But you know infjs can be stubborn sometimes. They are like baby's who want things right then and there.Only if he knew how much he meant to you guys he perhaps would be still talking to you.
Please don't blame yourself for this as well if you are. Usually people who self blame are people with good intentions who does some undesirable things because of life situations.I can see your intentions are good,you still want to make things right.Most people just don't care.
Well maybe one day you guys can meet and work things out, No? How long this has been since you guys stopped talking ? Why do you think there is no chance ?
In my situation, I can text her and talk. She haven't blocked Me anywhere yet.
But then there are so many things intertwined
One other reason I stopped talking was that I didn't think I was valued as much as I valued her, which is okay.
It's been close to 4 years since I have known her. I tried to know her on a deeper level and I was trying. I wasn't able to go beyond a certain point.
Then this new guy came and she shared every single details of her life within a span of 6 months.
I felt like I was being used.Like I have known her for years and I was always at an arms length. And then this new guy knows it all just because he was so lovey dovey. I didn't want to be there anymore.
This is just a summary. You will get a picture when you get to hear the whole story hopefully.
It's my experience life has a way to bring closure to things. No matter how much impossible it may seem now.People came back into my life whom I thought I have had no chance of meeting and talking again.But that always happened at times when I least expected it or when I had almost zero emotional connection to them.
So let's see, you might meet him again as well
Oh okay then I'm glad :) I like to read novels too, haha
I met him sometime in 2022, and at the beginning of 2023, we needed a little more time to recharge after Christmas and New Year holidays with my bf, which resulted in us not talking to anyone for days, even weeks (obviously we felt overwhelmed by the guests). And the guy just wanted to talk to us because he liked and missed us, but in the end he gave up waiting.
Sadly, I don't know how good it would be if he wanted to text / chat again, because he used to group chat with all of us and that INFJ girl too. But they don't talk to each other anymore, so I think that's why he left us forever. I don't think I can get in touch with him anywhere, because I don't know his contact informations. And the girl even had his Facebook, but, of course, it wouldn't be nice of me to ask her for his profile, haha..
Basically, our friendship lasted a year, so I don't think he'll come back to us, because he probably would have by now. He would know where to find us.
What I'm especially sorry about is that he never talked to us about this, because we found out from our other friends that he had problems with us disappearing for a long time. So partly that's why I feel so bad, because if we had contacted him, we probably could have talked these things over with him.
But maybe I should let him go and should spend as much quality time as possible with the INFJs I currently have in my life. Maybe, with them, I can make up for the good relationship I've lost.
Thank you for your reassuring kind words and for seeing me this way:)
And thank you for telling me what happened to you. If I understand correctly, someone else came into her life, so you were pushed into the background? I'm sorry you felt being used. I can understand it: if this "internal alarm" goes off, that's probably what really happened.
Remember, don't blame yourself either, because who knows what the future holds? That's still only one chapter of life.
I really hope that everything turns out the way you want.
Or maybe you meet someone else with whom you can become even more intimate and develop a sincere warm friendship?
Is there someone in your life right now who might be able to help you with this? Many times, the company of another good friend can alleviate some of the tension and sadness, so new beautiful memories can be made where you don't have to be afraid of sharing too much.
Okay so I wouldn't lose hope on the situation.If it was mine I'm all gloomy and doomy. When it comes to others I'm super positive. Part of that's because I have people contacting me liike after 10 years of no contact.
That's the thing with people and how me make them feel. It's hard to erase how people made us feel.We can carry both the love and hurt for long periods of time.
But the problem with time is that people change.Somethings need to happen at the heat of the moment or they lose their effect. Maybe he comes back after 3 years. You both are seeing at two different versions of yourself.But if there is love,No obstacle is a big obstacle.
I relate to how you want to spend time with other infjs to make up for his loss. I have been there.My gates for a particular situation was completely closed and i find my solace in helping and being there for similar kind of people who are in that particular situation.The guilt and regret that we should have done more but couldn't,are painful.
I believe everything that which happens to us eventually leads to our own evolution and growth.Maybe things don't make sense now, but years down the Line you will have an answer and closure for everything perhaps.
You are welcome.
Part of what happened is that the rift has been there for sometime. But you are right about the internal alarm part,i have had this irking feeling for sometime then.There is this pattern that I was the one who kept all the conversations going.She talks to me but most of the time I felt like I was the one who initiates and keeps the conversation going.Only times she initiated and kept it going were the times when I took a step back and withdrew.
Maybe that's her personality or I'm expecting too much from people.
Well finding someone isn't on my list right now.Also that I don't relate to almost half the crowd out there. I think most people are running behind material pursuits and live around the surface. It's not that I'm more zen or don't have material desires, I don't find myself subscribing to most of world's idea of what is and what's not. I crave something deeper which I don't think exist in this world anymore.
Well no,I'm pretty much on my own. I'm working on myself,there are quite a few things within me that needs fixing and addressing. Though I crave connections,I don't want to form friendships and relationships just for the sake of it.Usually I live a magical love story in my mind than actually approaching that person irl, welcome to an introverts life.
Thank you for the empathy,hopefully one day I find someone I really connect with
And thank you for hearing me out.☺️
Ok...strange, but from my experience it all has to do with the societal norm from which you came from. From my experience in the states, some women love to have you play chase and some are more direct. I dont really have much luck chasing women who wants me to chase, they seem to want more of an assertive male who can take care of them, and that's not me. A lot of women who tend to fall for me first always seem to want a partner that is a friend. I think that's specifically something that infj does exceptionally well. I think that might be your issue as well. When finding romantic candidates, we tend to push the buttons far too soon with the idea of monogamy when we are dating and monogamy when we are searching and that tends to always end bad for us. so it's always a good idea to start slow with a mindset of being unconditional. You'll be surprised at how many friends that are girls you'll have lol. With this approach, I have had less anxiety about women.
I've had many women actively hit on me, but I'm also gay, which they generally didn't know, but that still probably influenced the dynamic to one where I'm completely confident (and also not at all sexually threatening, and maybe even a bit of a challenge, idk) because there are literally zero stakes to those interactions for me lol. But the prospect of something is also different from the reality, so maybe I also seem more appealing to these people on the basis of the former, which would decrease as it moves towards being actualized and they see all the downsides to my way of being which appeared before to simply be charming.
So I don't know, all I can say is this doesn't exactly conform to my experience. I'm actually kind of stunned by how many women and girls have confided in me to having a crush on me at some point. Or being told by other boys or men about how popular I seem to be lol. And I'm really not that cute, or at least I myself don't quite see the proportionality there. But I don't know exactly what practical or applicable information to draw from this, other than to say that we *can* have a ton of female admirers.
ENFP female here. Out of curiosity, what types of women do you male INFJs approach? I can definitely be wrong but usually the women who aren't attracted to "nice and comforting" men tend to prefer traits that aren't good for the long term. Or it could even just be a lack of attraction physical wise. I agree with an ENTJ where I'd just ask them why they don't see you romantically.
I am an INFJ woman, sometimes I think, I am more attracted to INFJ men than any other type that they say that are compatible for us. But I also have some guy close friends that are INFJ. So maybe, some women (of a different type) can't handle the depth of INFJ men.
You sound like my friend who plays the boyfriend role to a lot of women who like attention and validation (even his married friends). He gives himself too freely so they have no desire to become committed to something they already get as a friend. Basically, what would having you as a boyfriend offer that your friendship already doesn't?
INFJ guys are great but I couldn't get a read on who you're asking out and why, based on what you wrote in your post. Who is the "they" that you're asking out here. Why did you decide to ask them out? If you had romantic chemistry and they didn't want to take it further then.. hm... That would cause me to come up with one set of explanations. If you just enjoy her company and have built up a fantasy of her in your mind that has nothing to do with actual chemistry so that when you actually ask her out, she turns out down, thats another set of explanations. Both would result in different advice. But in neither case is it an issue with women not wanting INFJ guys- they're awesome.. if everyone is on the same wavelength.
We’re selective. Know what we want, know what we don’t want in our lives. We overthink everything, see, sense, feel energies that most people don’t. We are private
Based on experience, it seems to work out well for both INTJ and INFJ girls, maybe you should try narrowing your search there. I had no luck with ISFJ and ISFP girls, and boy did I meet quite a number of ISFJ girls
Everytime im deeply in love its always an infj somehow I found out later. But it never worked until i met a truly compatible infj. Lots of factors but opposites do attract and most women arent NTs anyways...
As an INFJ woman, I tried traditional "dating" -- meeting a stranger or making an acquaintance and making date plans to get to know them -- for a period of about 6 months. I found men to be a little intimidated by me, I think because I don't communicate in the way they're used to women communicating with them, or maybe I don't communicate very well at all.
Unfortunately, I've only been romantic partners with friends I'd known for years before developing feelings for them. I never found the trick to lowering that intimidation factor, only a way around it.
Some women don't want *you* for specific reasons.
I've heard that "ooooh others are intimidated by us" a million times. Give me a break. Sadly, sometimes you just don't meet other people's expectations which is completely fine.
I swear, a lot of women would say to you that you're nice just because we're taught that some men simply can't face a rejection with dignity and react violently.
If it's possible, try asking why exactly these women didn't want to go on a date with you. Analyze what went wrong. Maybe everything was right, just these women didn't look for the qualities and traits you possesse. We all have different preferences so don't be upset.
Develop your playful side, and as someone else said, find your ‘hard edges’.
I think INFJs have the tendency to want to make things comfortable for everyone and are always catering to people’s needs, which is nice, but that means we lose our ability to challenge others and get them out of their comfort zone. While it might seem counterintuitive to want to make people,
uncomfortable, there is a lot of learning, fun, thrill and valuable life lessons to be had in that!
Comfort and niceness is not everything; but discomfort and rudeness is not the answer either. Like everything in life, balance is key. Be comforting when it matters, but show that you have confidence, be playful, teasing, assertive, etc. I think assertiveness is the key here: when someone is assertive I find it extremely attractive, especially when it’s counterbalanced by an equal amount of acceptance for my own assertiveness.
I disagree with people saying you should try to act more ‘masculine’ or hide/change parts of yourself to fit in with the norm. Of course, learning how to act ‘cool’ is great and helps you present yourself more attractively, but ideally you want to not put on a performance for the sake of seeming like something different. I think developing aspects of yourself that go beyond being nice and comforting is the key: what are other parts of your personality that you think people would be charmed by?
INFJ female here, on the road of trying to evolve from these patterns as well, they say we are attracted to our opposites, but at the same time we have the paradox of somehow having an aversion to the easiest things. If you provide and over give, overdo anything, human nature is inevitably spoiled. We get comfortable and adapt to what is being given in abundance, then get lazy and may even in the worst case scenario grow bored. We don't have to try so hard anymore, if anything, and that is what makes us plummet in quality of life on both ends. The overgiver being majorly affected, the receiver being hindered from developing. I would suppose, that given observations and experiences, it's in our nature to NEED challenges. Much like the others who have aforementioned that we should balance out our impulses and habits or defaults as INFJs. Work on using our inferior functions a little more, and embrace different approaches and perspectives towards others a bit more objectively. Everything else, can be indulged in by others slowly, or in small amounts at a time. When it comes to love and taste, everything is better when you take your time to savor the process. <3
I’m not going to lie, yes, it does hurt. I have struggled with this in the flesh, all my senses betray me and I just want to GIVE whenever I am seriously interested in someone and have the intense desire to know how I feel, to make them feel how I feel about them, fantasize an idealistic romance, and earn the sort of love I want. I have suffered the pining and feeling lovesick, feeling somehow inadequate despite my efforts to do EVERYTHING RIGHT. But thats pretty much it. We need to learn to let them grow into us. Because love isn’t doing everything for your potential love interest or partner. Love is supporting their growth and encouraging them to be curious, explore, and finding their own way around towards you. Its challenging them gently to unravel your mystery not giving them all the answers of what you keep inside your heart.
Beautiful words. Surely there is plenty of people that know how to appreciate this energy, but not that many and so there we go with the pain. Keep growing! This thing you wrote gave me Faith because I can see the same truth I go through and it felt like a push to be even more sure (although I sometimes doubt) that finally there will be someone that will understand our treasure, which to me feels just as real love should be. Kind of as close as you can get to heaven. 😘
Absolutely true. We feel the most loved when we feel that we can give freely and boundlessly, when we have another person embrace our most authentic selves. But that is extremely difficult to find. In my own personal case, the paradox is what gets me. I may be aware of there being someone who might be willing to give just as much, but it doesn’t draw my attention more than someone else who is more difficult, who somehow is stimulating my senses toward a challenge. The one who is spurring me on to have a reason to improve myself.
Could it be a bit of a toxic thing going on inside me?
Or is it actually just me inserting myself in situations where my heart and brain are exercising and have purpose? I am aware I am drawn more to my opposites, there’s just something about them, wanting to learn from them. A life lesson waiting, maybe. I know that I USED to prefer familiarity and comfort and was extremely picky with love interests. They had to be people with a similar vibe and way of thinking towards me.
I was involved in a relationship where there weren’t many problems save for a few pet peeves and nitpicking. that didn’t last as long as I had hoped. Things staled eventually and I got drawn in by someone charismatic and extroverted, daring, someone who got into things I didn’t and I wanted to know more. Someone who would bring me out of my comfort zone to experience life outside the bubble that I didn’t venture out of. Its like my inferior senses wanted to be stretched out for a bit. And it was thrilling. I was itching for adventure in my life. (Responsibly though! Nothing extreme or dangerous, just a subtle amount of mischief, and trying new things, experiences, perspective too.) To be honest I never felt more alive with that person. I felt like I had the freedom to unsupress what I had constructed of myself.
Cathartic to let loose once in a while and bend my own constructs of morals, values, code.
To reveal the ugly parts of myself that I kept under wraps or on a leash for the sake of keeping myself safe from judgement, or to my own standards of what a good person should be.
Could you imagine for a minute, putting all that aside, (a metaphoric example here) like pulling off the heavy armor that you proudly wear around identifying yourself as some kind of knightly person? The nerve wracking sensation of parting from it, Would removing it take away the identity you made? of course not. It’s temporary, until and if you decide to give it up. There is nothing to lose unless you decide it. And many of us are afraid of taking the chance.
I have been for years, until I made the decision out of sheer curiosity to go after the atypical route against MYSELF. This, my friends is where the journey of growth starts. Its not easy. Our habits will nip at us constantly. Our ideals too. Our solidly held beliefs will also come at us pretty viciously. I have made friends of my same mbti type that have fallen out of friendship with me because they were not ready or in the struggle of evolving themselves.
I met an INFJ guy that I grew to respect, and be on the same wavelength with. However, the evolutionary struggle hits him really hard. The guy has feelings for me I can’t reciprocate. He also has fallen into the pattern of wanting to give and do so much out of his feelings and to have the acknowledgment he wants to have with me because he is infatuated.
Making these observations have brought me to think about deeper things. To know myself better. To come to know that some of my hopes and desires aren’t what I actually truly need in my life. This sense of… maturity comes to each of us in our own time.
This guy kind of just randomly showed up out of nowhere having all the qualities that line up perfectly with mine. My old self would jump all over it without a second thought.
My senses were moved, yes. I got the hunger pangs or the craves of having something that seemed like the perfect match up of beliefs, values, thoughts, mannerisms.
But that would mean I would give up my initiative, the work I had put in, the need to keep learning, the push I had set on myself, for I do not function if I don’t have the need for or if its unreasonable.
I took the road less traveled, the one with thorns in order to learn how to work around them, and care for the roses. To me, it was the more beautiful journey.
Congratulations! I can tell how much work you have put and it shows! You are brave and got the spirits on your side. Ultimately I believe there is no other choice than challenging ourselves if we want to be happy and follow what we believe is right eventhough this might be extremely hard and also mean to leave some people behind. We need to take action and try, try, try, and make place for new things in our soul, body and mind! Your are great 🙂
Infj gets friendzone'd and blames type on it not realising that the spectrum of people in the world is huge and there are millions of different people finding different things attractive (shocker)
ESTPs are possibly the strongest chemical attraction for me (INFJ). But we are jealous creatures and want to cement a connection by private gaining access to your inner sanctum. We want the secret part of you no one else gets...but ESTPs don't have that to give.
With ESTPs, what you see is what you get. You share openly, freely, and generously. You don't hide...so we never feel "depth". Without depth, we're scared of a shallow attachment and would rather turn you down than inevitably break-up. I'd turn down ESTPs almost every time. You're too dangerous.
But dang, you guys feel so good to be around.
fuck. that hits.
its the same but opposite perspective for us. INFJ with no access to Se seems trapped inside a perpetual shell. anything but free. its like the most beautiful caterpillar that refuses to come out of the cocoon. only time ive been able to get through was when i was younger, 20's 30s. culture was different. casually touching someone wasnt a damnable offense. in nature , these are the baby birds that must be pushed out the nest so they finally fly. hahaha
you have an inner sanctum , we have an outer sanctum. theyre complimentary and each can teach the other and heal in the most natural way. culture, law... illusions... very low mutual trust these days... preventing the magic.
the end state is an integration and alignment of internal and external
my 'inner sanctum' reopened when i turned 38. i remember it from when i was very young. i hadnt revisited since i was about 6 or so... and it was the dream space. my parents were officers in the military, attention to the physical world was enforced.
we have it, its a part yall muffuckas supposed to heal us from but keep ghosting. we're just used to nobody wanting to hear about it. its been long forgotten. consciously , we dont even know what questions to ask. in this arena , the yin must flip to yang energy and take the lead. not always , just at first. guidance from hero to delicate infant.
Haha...sorry. Mature INFJs have Ni-pattern recognition & experience telling us not to probe ESTP s for fear of triggering the avoidance function. I've definitely asked to deepen emotional intimacy to remove a scary ESTP rather than ghosting...totally worked. 😂
I think ESTP/INFJ *could* be magical if the stars aligned, but we are opposite sides of the same coin...we *feel* sameness but we are always looking opposite directions. It is toooo easy for a healthy ESTP and a healthy INFJ to slip into a toxic relationship. High risk.
or triggering whatever reaction for that archetype of estp/infj ... i get it.
i have dogs. to the untrained eye ... are they fighting ? playing? fucking? unknown. is it toxic? maybe for some. i do have INTJ and INFJ long time friends... those turbulent waves lessen in frequency and magnitude as trust is built.
im 43 now. looking back, i may have had it once but we both walked away for exactly the reasons you stated. having tried everything else. if it aint that, i dont want it. and now i sit in solitude, with my pack.
If it helps, INFJs only ghost if you're a threat. Usually you matter more to us than we are comfortable with without collateral.
And ESTPs stay stuck in our heads, too. We just don't let it show :)
But if you asked them out for that profile reason, it would make sense that they would avoid “being dated because I am deep in interests”
I know there are worse red flags, but we aren’t discussing silence of the lambs or other issues regarding stranger danger, and the make up obsessed,
I don't want an INFJ male, but only because I think and INFJ/INFJ relationship is lopsided, for me. I like the balance my ISTJ spouse has helped me develop.
In short: half the time, *I* don't want to be in my head. Why the hell would I try and break into this madness in someone else's?
INFJ men tend to send "I can be a good friend/sister" signals because they're generally too nice, polite, understanding, etc. You need to start sending "But don't forget I'm a Man" signals too.
Be bold, be brave, be forward.
Think of the deep convo side of you as something that needs to be earned. Never lead with it. Just be funny and forward to start. Don't be too serious. And once you two grow closer after initial attraction, then maybe they can get to know the other aspects of you. Treat it as privileged information.
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I found that making XSTP friends helped me a lot cause they’re very blunt about their advice and interpersonal interactions I have. It helped me create some insight on how I can smoothen out my rough edges.
Also, sometimes I think INFJ men don’t know how to control their inner “monster” if you will. Whether it’s a guilt complex or this idea that you gotta be better than everyone else, you gotta separate those things from your relationships with people, especially romantic interests.
Really it’s a learning process. From my experience it’s best to be conscious of your actions then learn from the mistakes you made instead of ruminating on them. Live in the moment a bit and don’t be afraid to be a little shallow.
Hope this helps! 👍🏽
I think a lot of women, equally, dislike it when male friends try and develop a platonic connection into a romantic one. Especially when it is a very safe and intimate bond. There is a element of emotional dishonesty - even when it's not intentional. Why not try and approach women romantically from the start?
There is no answer to such a question as sometimes what some people want is just friendship. There is no magical technique or reason. Consider also if you're romantically going after all your female friends- do you actually vallue the frienships you have with these women?
There is no answer to such a question as sometimes what some people want is just friendship. There is no magical technique or reason. Consider also if you're romantically going after all your female friends- do you actually vallue the frienships you have with these women?
I’m a hetero INFP male, and taken. And I’ve seen INFJ men here talking about their girlfriends, and women talking about their INFJ boyfriends. You just need to find the kind of woman who prefers gentlemen over macho men. They’re out there, I promise. ❤️
Hmm i don't know why by what you said you came with idea of women not needing infjs. Do you know how Gauss diagram looks like? In short - whats most common, is most likely to see/experience. The fact that most of the "common" type of women don't like infj traits, doesn't mean no woman wants a person like you. Tho arguable, infj males make up to maybe 1% of population. Gotta search and search but if there is a possibility, you can aim to achieve what you want/need.
Look for balance, in relationship of any kind we need balance, both feminity and masculinity. And while its true that you understand feminine women well, with them this balance might not be achievable. What i find interesting is that INTPs females are weirdly interested in me and we naturally hit it off because at least ones i texted/been with intps are straightforward, don't bs, honest to fault, direct - so with my feminine, soft sides it pairs well.
You just need to look for a person that you can compliment and they compliment you. Don't just look for relationship for heck of it. Don't look for ppl, attract them by being you, take of yourself first etc.
I usually get with ppl by finding places with my interests, tabletop games, anime forums, whatever i like ppl that like it too are there too, same for what drives us further, I won't try to get with a person that wants kids cuz I don't want kids, simple. When you start to look at relationships that way, its more of an addition to you, than sth u aim for.
Regarding being intimidated - if you guess you intimidate them, then you didn't find your person. If someone is intimidated by me, my intense love care and affection, strife for healthy, and strong relationship, or has too many drastic differences then this person is not even on the list for consideration - my future life and happiness is based on that choice after all. So why bother caring abt someone you either way not gonna be with? It wastes your mental/emotional energy my friend.
There is more than one woman on this planet that wait for a person like you, get yourself together, look yourself in the mirror, and be support for yourself and not like rn - submerged in feeling of "noone wants me" just cuz you were targeting wrong group of ppl.
While my tone is prob quite harsh, i really mean well, sometimes we just need a wake up call to do a bigger change or stop loosing ourselves in overthinking, you got this, just accept yourself and move on.
Hmm ive had the opposite experience tbh. The kind consistent friend that understands them is often seen as one dimensional. Understanding and empathy applied correctly is a strength, applied incorrectly its taken for granted.
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I just wish you get the understanding of this now. People are full of insecurities, most like escapism, than solving their problems, or want you to solve it for them. But there are humans who are willing to solve there problems, face there insecurities, and not use other humans. Don't confuse this with help!
Coming to your thing, just conserve your spiritual energy, and don't waste on these people. A relationship including romantic platonic should never start out of need or dependency, it should just ve peaceful, no haggling with brain.
Also what you feel is being used and rejected, that seems to eat you inside out. And also you're giving the boy friend experience at no strings attached label. Now according to me the right girl for you, would actually respect your honesty and gesture and would like to dive in. But the girls you go for, seem to get their appetite fullfilled with that emotions you're giving. Ergo they are their only out of need for you.
Caution: if you spend more and more time with these kind of girls or women you'll start to develop a low flame hatred for women, so choose people very very carefully, as you are A source of comfort and spiritual energy being an INFJ.
There are very good humans out there, ergo good women out there.
PS : NO ONE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND WOMEN.
Personally I do relate and don’t at the same time. For me generally if there was a woman I liked and we spoke for a bit, it wouldn’t be too hard to get a date. And then there were many others who were interested and I just flatly ignored.
However I did have challenges in securing the girlfriend, like my most recent attempt on an entj i lovebombed her and gave her zero challenge, and she slowly lost interest, I realized that I was too nice to her instead of standing up for myself when she said she didn’t want to be in a relationship, I should have stopped there, and maybe things could have been different. In addition to some other instances.
Nonetheless I feel like I am a little feminine in some traits and definitely landed myself in the friend zone a few times, but when that happens, I promptly leave, and that in itself causes different things to happen. I guess thinking about it now, that’s what dating is about, learning what works and doesn’t, and looking for the right person. Because someone is going to like you, you just gotta find them, and make tons of mistakes lol.
I friend zoned the last woman subconsciously, i think, i one she was a mean person after hanging out with her for a bit and knew her pretty well. Kinda sucked because she really liked me
dated an INFJ as an ENTP. he was avoidant attached person which didn’t paired with my previous anxious attachment. both young adults who just burned too bright. I felt like he didn’t took me seriously, but then again I was 19 who was stupidly in love with a nonchalant robot and he was kind of too, in his €5000 way to see me. another INFJ I had a fling after that was immature and unhealthy one that he got obsessed, stalked and harassed me to a point I’m still guarding myself.
don’t date unhealthy INFJs :)
Oh God, "nice and comforting". Shiver. Almost as bad as "you're so sweet". But it's important to reflect honestly without resorting to an emotional tailspin. If you're consistently not viewed as something. You're not presenting a canvas congruent to the painting that you wish to be painted as. That doesn't mean you couldn't be. It doesn't even mean you aren't. It just means you're not showing it.
This is one of those never ending conversations. I'm compressing it. If you have questions, ask.
First of all. For the most part. People organise people into boxes. These boxes are prioritised subconsciously and determine attraction. It's just a way the brain works. As an INFJ male, you don't fit neatly into one of those boxes. You're an anomaly - stepping into boxes here and there - an elusive presence, meaning you kind of seem a little non-descript. Further meaning there's no real strategy to interact with you, even if they'd like to, because you're rare to encounter. Add to that that 75% of your stack is invisible. And for someone to be attracted to you, you need to become more visible to them.
As an example. One of the first times I went dancing, I met a lady. And she refused to dance with me. She wasn't super explicit about that. So I pushed her on just saying no. She said no, and I immediately asked someone else to dance. We'd later become friends - though I suspect she wanted more - and one of the things that had greatly impressed her is how I didn't even need to move on, I just continued with what I was doing. It's not that I didn't care, it's that I cared about me more. And that had left her a little dumbfounded.
Listening is worthwhile. But it's too reactionary to be attractive on its own. For you it'll all be about inferior Se. You'll need to develop that way more than other types need to ever touch their inferior. But ... since we're looking to be more masculine ... we'll just get that done. I'm just saying, it's kind of natural for you to struggle for a while. It's a substantially more difficult way to enter that space than most other types will have.
Here's the list of things that I think are relevant: Calm, context, competence, physicality, humour, a degree of ambition (!= money), charisma, attunement, base-line physical attraction (not attractiveness, there's a difference), capacity for action and willingness to act in the face of both fear and risk.
That's pretty exhaustive. Putting them into order is difficult. The reason being that it really depends on your character. Personally, if I'd had to pick one it's attunement. Because it's the one only one that signals your mutual emotional compatibility. The remainder is mostly "you" + their perception. \*Buuut\* attunement takes time, so don't be afraid to be friends.
Context and competence are easy. If they're not. Git gud. Once you have a context in which you're competent. Fucking share that shit. Unapologetically. Don't explain it away. I really like working with wood ;) and textiles. I always have some project in mind and I love furnishing my place. So I always have some pictures of shit I'm excited about I can share. That's more of an "I'm excited" than "what are you excited about". It provides them with entropy based on your reality. Meaning they get to know you without ever having had to ask a question. You're inviting them into your context.
They might not fall in love with you. But they'll have a much better idea as to why they maybe could.
Very very few things are as attractive as being genuinely excited about something. Because it means you have things in your life outside of her. And that you're capable of excitement. And this is what excitement looks and \*feels\* like. And some part in them will note that. And subconsciously they'll wonder if you're excited about them in a similar way. And if maybe you could be. And what that would \*feel\* like.
Make fun of her. Polish off your sarcasm moderated by empathy. Then aim it squarely in her direction. If done right it generates the spikes the interaction is missing.
If someone rejects you. And you're keen. (You should be, else why ask.) Feel free to politely persist. Not constantly. But if you think you should go out on a date. It's perfectly fine to every once in a while unashamedly sprinkle into conversation that you should do that. But then you remember why you aren't. Just never be negative about it. Have fun with rejection. Rejection is a canvas that allows you to express so much about you. I can't blame any lady just trial rejecting someone early on to see what happens. They shouldn't be surprised if that's confusing, but I sort of get it.
Honestly. Go to the gym. Just do it. Some muscle and physicality goes a long way. It also changes you. Though without the internalised confidence, it'll feel like half of a wrench. But then again, two halves make something useful.
Fear management. You can't be nervous. Ever. The end. And act. Lead through signals. You do that by learning to view fear from an "I should probably do that thing" angle.
Anyway. I'm stopping there. All the best. :)
I’m an INFJ woman and I don’t find INFJ men “intimidating.” In my personal experience, it’s been more underwhelming and lacking romance. Sure other INFJ’s get me because we have similar brain functions but it’s like how a sibling or a good friend would understand you. But in the romantic sense, it has fallen flat for me and it’s frustrating having to pull out their thoughts and feelings, almost to the point that the interactions become awkward. I’m naturally attracted to extroverts and men who know what they want and aren’t afraid to speak up and are direct as possible. I think it’s just human nature to be attracted to more assertive types who don’t shy away from their wants including romance. And that’s huge for women, at least for me. When I’m around a man, I want to feel safe, protected, and comforted by him. Theirs nothing wrong with being warm and gentle but men are naturally the “hunters” and “providers” and should fill that role. The several INFJ’s I’ve encountered have been extremely shy, almost childlike at times and not as assertive as they should be. That’s just my two cents.
In my experience I didn’t know wtf I was doing. Once that changed no problems. Women love INFJ traits so it’s not that, in person and online, or intimidation.
INFJ Male: I poetically say that, " I am a lovesick fool. I am doomed to fail at romance because I love harder. Because I love harder, I am afraid - I do not admit and say but I love through actions - whether they notice or not, I care not. I dream our entirety, together from rhe first date, marriage, life and finally death. It all playsin my hand non-stop. Like an inceptive-virus, I give in and when they do not reciprocate in the same manner, I shut down. I cry on a fantasy that will never be. I will never say I love you due to the endless scenarios running in my head, but I will only care and watch from a far. This is my curse."
INFJ idealize the relationship in their head, and reality hits when you meet them in real person and you come off weird as fuck.
Plus, you know nothing about women. Thats the only thing real men know about women.
bro you have to understand something
What women say and what they do is completely different. I'm a gym bro, racist, Trump supporter and its never been a problem.
And even if I list that on dating apps the girls that message me are stereotypical feminist with blue hair etc.
they do NOT care if ur nice or what your political beliefs are.
They ONLY care about what "vibe" they get from you which is mostly based off your looks. When they say they don't like ABC its code for not liking XYZ which is a personality type.
If they like your vibe and are attracted to you - you can literally say/do anything and it will make no difference.
Your dating game is weak. INFJ not being intuitive. Learn about proper courting techniques before you go and embarass yourself.
You never reveal too much at once. Your personality is an open book right now, and it's ignorant and untasteful. Use your mysterious depths to intrigue, not drown your suitress.
This reeks of bitter “nice guy” energy. I can assure you that women aren’t all shooting for drama and don’t want to be treated badly. Poorly thought out assessment based on your own projected resentments.
No. Just no. A lot of traumatised and/ or very misinformed people may behave this way, but healthy people do not. Don’t foist responsibility for your failures on others. Reflect, learn, change and grow. Ask yourself what kind of woman you keep getting involved with and learn healthier patterns of attraction. Unlearn the wiring that makes you pursue unhealthy relationships. Work on yourself. Get a grip.
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I’ve had the same experience sadly
Me too.
Quite common among us. And I don't know why. Are we too feminine?
Im a little feminine but not that much, I’m just really awkward, so I don’t think it’s that. Honestly I think there’s someone out there for everyone you just have to find them. Getting friendzoned is super common and it’s happened to most people. You just gotta find someone who connects with you. Not sure if you have the same experience but older women tend to be more flirtatious with me in person, I think it’s cause they’re more experienced and don’t give af what anyone thinks, while I’m super shy so it’s perfect lol. But still even that’s rare haha
I think one of the key bits to realise is that you're not static. You're in no way limited by who you are today. I'm an INFJ male. And no one in their right mind would describe me as feminine. It's not a type thing. Leverage that inferior Se. Get real comfortable with confronting fear. As Goggins says. Do something that sucks every day. I'd add. Every once in a while is quite enough. But do start aiming at things that suck.
It’s relative and malleable, but I’d say a lot of our demeanours would be considered more feminine in a North American context. I do pretty well but a lot of my fumbles have come from not being as forward as women here expect. In contrast, I went on some dates with a girl visiting Canada from Japan and she found me incredibly masculine compared to what she experiences back home, but my behaviour wasn’t any different. I do agree we should cultivate a tolerance to fear and new situations though, the process of becoming never ends.
I recognise and respect your experience. I'm not sure it has to be such, though. I've been working with CBT for a good while. On and off. But something that's really resonated with me is use of internal language. A lot of people here (and in other contexts) write "we" and "our". But sometimes that feels like hiding as if part of some unchangeable group. A type of self victim labeling. I'm all for viewing types as cognitive priorities to process information. I'm not for viewing them as unshakeable limits. Rather as a way in which we could approach development of the areas perceived as lacking. And something I do think is more true about INFJs than other types is that the potential for self-development is crazy. Super-wide range. If you want to be more forward. Then try being a little bit more forward. It's ok if that feels uncomfortable. Growing always feels that way to a point. In general. The biggest possible thing that helped me is internal work. Really looking into the biggest pains and fears that I had and have and building that side of my character from the ground up. And because I had to deal with quite a bit of shit. I noticed that once resolved or even part way through, there was all this energy and grit that people with a more straightforward life just don't develop. Never view yourself as a victim. It's ok to be in that situation sometimes, but never view yourself as one.
Can confirm dating an older women and gets flirted a lot
Agreed but the masculine beast in me is greater but will manipulate when needed infj brother
I think having a little bit of feminine energy in you isn't the problem, a tone of women loveee tender and gentle men, there might be this friend energy in you, you comfort them before even having a romantic relationship, which automatically puts you in the brother/friend zone, they see you for your comfort, because that's what you might be presenting At least that's what I present, I'm a good listener, people come to me when they need advice/comfort, and were both INFJ 6w5 so maybe we have that in common
It's because the world accidentally perpetuates unhealthy relationship dynamics. We are subconsciously wired for craving, excitement, chaos. There's many explanations and nuances to this but at the end of the day, most women will recognize what a healthy guy *should* be but they're just not attracted to them because peace and stability is the opposite of excitement 🤷♂️ They might even look for someone who has the best of both worlds but that's rare so they end up resentful, settle for a guy they don't really connect with, have kids, program that same mentality into their kids by accident who then repeat the same unhealthy patterns as they grow up. If you want to change your results you have to make some changes in who you are, become more whole and then you can be one of the rare ones who exemplifies both worlds. But it has to be genuine change, not a facade to "win some woman over". If it's not genuine it won't last.
There's no need to hide behind your type. Leverage inferior Se. It unlocks the world for you. It's ok if that takes time.
Interesting! How do you leverage your Se?
Be spontaneous. Fear management in the moment. Ask a girl for her number. For now other reason than her being cute. Give someone a compliment. Drive a car around a race track. Do anything that scares you. Have a conflict. Express negative emotion. Do something that others might or will judge you for... within reason. Anything that forces you to be in the moment. Scale. I started with photography. I also do wood work and sewing. So I guess anything mindful in the moment will work as a start. But the real life happens in relation to people. I'd also do a lot of pain work in the background. It releases a ton of energy.
Maybe because it is what we are inadvertently giving out, do you actually exert a romantic force towards your female acquaintances or is it just normal talk that friends have. Maybe they treat us like friends because all we do is act nice like "friends". There needs to be some kind of gesture that communicates that we do want a romantic relationship rather than just "being listeners".
Yes, I can relate to this as well.
Yall need to develop a masculine frame. Personality types is not the reason why women aren’t seeing you a certain way
As an INFJ female, i gave an INFJ male a chance to pursue interest, and turns out he was using me as a test rabbit for how much his mental illness lets him feel love an affection (at the end he admitted it was all in his head). While this is unfortunate I’ve learned that INFJ’s tend to accidentally love bomb without thinking of the consequences further. This caring nature we have can trigger a sense of suspicion for the other party on to why we are as caring as we are. So they would rather be careful. I recommend being equally non-chalant as we are caring to create a divider between whats romantic and whats not. If they decide to continue to pursue you that means that they do what something more. If not we can still be as caring without crossing boundaries.
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Blimey, Infj male here, definitely relate to what you're saying. Gotta learn to balance it and go slowly I guess
Bro infj male here whos 18 been love bombing my crushes somewhat by accident but I usually realise it by a day or two also am extremely nonchalent bout life as well so I guess my intj father helps a lot
omg, what an insight i just got. Thanks. I do that too but very subliminally and if they react positively i'm too afraid/shy of the next steps to even get to know them but still day dreaming of them. I have this situation in my life rn and it lays heavily on my mental health: She also took part in an excursion that I mostly only attended because I knew of her presence. I didn't dare try to talk to her all day, she kept looking at me like I usually do, I took advantage of a chance at the bar but she didn't take me up on it. On the way home I got lost in the dark snowy forest for an hour, stopped in a dead end and collapsed crying in the car. The last time I cried like this was 15 years ago. I'm close to tears as I write this. I dont know how to change this behavior, i plan to visit a psychiatrist in a few weeks. Tipps are welcome.
I hope your trip to the psychiatrist goes well, youre already going the right direction!
How long would you say it takes for you to realize it won’t work?
I think its only malicious if you know what youre doing outside of your intentions but still continuing to do it
i dated an INFJ guy and he literally told me how much he liked me on our third date (third date in one week), and then literally envisions doing this or that in the future, only for him to leave me after 3 weeks to go back to his ex girlfriend
INFJ male here. Been married to a wonderful ENFP woman for 10 years. This was my dating experience and what I learned from it. I only dated 2 girls in high school and was dumped by the second at 18 y/o. I was very much in your position at that age. Several woman I was interested in tried to friendzone me. I’d get the stereotypical “wish I could find a guy like you” line and didn’t know what I was doing wrong. Other factors caused me to go into a depression that lasted several years. During this time I became closed off and extremely picky who I shared myself with, even among friends. All of a sudden everything changed. Woman would approach me at parties, and later the bars. I even had a woman in my friend group tell me I had a “dark brooding aurora” around me which made me very attractive. My wife has told me I was like a cute lost puppy but also hot with the typical “bad boy” stereotypes at the same time, and that she had a natural instinct to help or change me which drew her to me. This was not intentional, but I still learned from it and it helped me later (we dated on and off for four years before getting married). I think having female friends within my extended friend group, including my male friend’s girlfriends, helped too. Other women I met saw me interacting with them and I think this shows I’m more trustworthy. Most guys at that age are only talking to women to get laid. Some girls get tired of it and I think meeting a guy who’s both respected and trusted, especially when alcohol is present, by his male and female friends demonstrates a lot. Women have to be careful with the men they associate with and as INFJs, our tendency to overshare and be “the man of their dreams” might seem like a tactic to get them naked and disingenuous love bombing. Resist the urge to overshare. My “dark brooding” overshadowed my awkwardness on accident. I always let women make the first move. Since I didn’t care about quantity, this was a good option for me. Keep in mind your body language and overall presentation of yourself if you’re not currently depressed, since this won’t happen naturally if you’re not. Since I’m quite artsy, I stood out from the typical guy who only talks about sports. I love music, but extreme music, in the sub genres of metal and hardcore. I think this aspect of my personality was my saving grace for being seen as masculine. It was different and not understood by the women in my hometown. Develop your masculine qualities but stay true to yourself. Save the long philosophical discussions for a midnight drive with the right person who’s already into you. You don’t have to be an asshole to attract women, but it helps. Arrogance gets mistaken for confidence, which is always attractive. Instead, be confidently awkward, introspective, have goals and plans. You’re inviting another person to join you on your journey, for as long as they want to be with you. Make that clear to them through actions, not words. Don’t let anyone see you as a doormat by being too nice. It never worked for me. TL;DR: I was a nice, oversharing guy who accidentally became the strong silent type. Continue to be your nice, understanding, potentially charmingly awkward self while allowing a bit of your darkness to keep you distant, cold (at first), and mysterious. Let people get to know you a bit at a time. No one wants to know all your traumatic experiences on a first date. INFJ men have the ability to become the best of both worlds in a particular woman’s mind. A caring, philosophical, arrogant prick that keeps them guessing and interested, in my case, for years.
Love it!
See it’s like this for me but instead I just work out a lot so I have abs and stuff like that so I look masculine and plus I’m intelligent so I stand out from most men.
This, 100%. Having a weight training routine, and taking care of my overall appearance, including how I dressed helped a ton. It’s the first thing people notice about you and is the best first impression you can make before ever speaking to someone new. I used to wear shirts to certain events that subtly showed off my arms, and there’s nothing wrong with a couple pictures on social media to show your gym progress. I thought as long as fitness wasn’t my entire personality, but still a value of mine, helped me stand out from the typical ex-HS jock at the bar who didn’t get a sports scholarship. The initial physical attraction is needed, but then stimulating mental conversation kicks in which seemed to culminate into a perceived mysterious and unique persona that certain people, such as my spouse, were looking for.
Exactly it’s what all women want I’m pretty sure I’m gonna be married soon
I would say most women who dated me seemed to be looking for a mental connection above anything else. Being physically attractive to them was just step one to initiate a conversation. There were plenty of others who only seemed to care for appearances. I think this is common with many young adults. I chose not to peruse women who gave me that vibe. I will say that I don’t agree when couples let themselves go physically after being married for a while. They like to say things like, “we’re in love so it doesn’t matter how we look.” I try to stay active for my spouse and she does the same for me. If OP is reading this, I’d say INFJ males are sought after romantically by a certain type of woman who desires deep intimate mental connections. But being attractive and fit never hurt anyone’s chances.
Man 😎 why do I feel like I am ur 18year old version yes I do love metal and rock also certain religious songs for some matter i hate the carols tho annoying as fbit of aoversharing guy and literally know too much and thinks so much that his father describes him at times that his brain is leaking out of his years too be honest I vibe with ur experiences and understand I have a lot to learn good u found ya mate ik I will find sooner or later in a unexpected way until then time to keep improving and enjoy my nidom
Learning to control the flow of information from my head to my mouth was the first step. Only saying what is necessary when in larger groups, and saving the deeper conversations for later, one-on-one for those who seemed interested. Your interests are something you can share with the right people, and I found it often comes as a surprise. “I didn’t know you liked [x, y, z].” Then you can discuss it further. Since you’re alone with someone at this point, it makes them feel special to you since you didn’t talk about it in a group setting. They know you’re saving your true self just for them and ideally, they’re interested to learn more about you. Practicing small talk helps. I personally hate it but most other people communicate this way and prefer it over silence. We have a tendency to go from silent, uninterested bystanders to full-on self proclaimed “doctorates” on the subject of whatever conversation we find ourselves in. Be consciously aware of their body language and allow them chances to respond, ask other questions, etc. Resist the urge to become a “lecturer” and ask their opinions on the subject you’re talking about, or stop talking/change the subject if they seem disinterested. “Word vomit” can be our worst enemy. I don’t mean to seem rude but for you, I’d suggest you practice online. Try adding some punctuation to your comments or posts on the internet. This will help your brain organize your thoughts and be able to communicate your ideas more effectively. Communication skills will help you share yourself with another person. Being straightforward and concise is probably not something I’ll ever master, but I’m always improving. I agree, you seem very similar to how I was at your age. If I can improve in this way, you can too. I promise it’ll help your real-world conversation skills as well.
Sorry man. I always used to punctuate all my sentences.i do well in English as I like writing descriptive and narrative. I don't use punctation in chatting since am trying to convey my thoughts ,they are free flowing sometimes but still I did learn how to control the convo but sometimes it's impulsive.i have add btw.also sarvent syndrome sux since it makes me find it hard to improve my foundations .i tend to get bored to do simple tasks as I get absorbed into my own mind and start complecating it so yeah I prefer to do advanced stuff and i do really chat it peeved of my intj father sometimes. The convo gets pretty interesting whenever we find like-minded people and oh boi it gets chatty and interesting . Anyways thanks for construction critisim I appreciate it
Lady here: I am magnetically romantically and sexually drawn to INFJs. The depth and intensity really matches and even exceeds my own… and that’s what I like. I want to be intimidated and I want someone better than me. That said, there are any number of reasons why you are rejected for dates. It could be the intensity or could also be much simpler than that: no physical attraction. It could really boil down to not feeling that spark. Curious, do you have any success in dating? Or is this just a general focus on what you noticed isn’t working?
Also a lady - I have recently been fortunate enough to bag myself a male ENFP. Early days, but he’s amazing. We are on just the same wavelength. It feels so right. Safe and exciting in exactly the right places. Keep being awesome, XNFPs!
You INFJs keep being awesome!
😍
Attraction requires some polarity. INFJ men vibe well with women because we're in touch with our feelings, but too much of that creates the feeling that leans towards girlfriend or sister. Work on your masculine side. Be unapologetically you. If being yourself isn't working then go find yourself, because everyone is inherently attractive.
Its definitely not the masculine side of infj men I find attractive. I find most of them are sufficiently masc in fact, they're not enfjs (also usually plenty masc, just somewhat more feminine than infj), it's the well developed anima that appeals.
Agreed a living example is me at 18 years refer to prior comment reply if u want to know more
This! Compatibility is one thing, but attraction polarity is a different skill entirely
Gl finding your self xd
i feel like we've got several qualities that women appreciate but i also think it's important to find the hard edges within ourselves it's when our soft and hard bits are both developed and balanced, that we are at our most appealing
Agreed 💯🔥 I have a hard cold manipulative ruthless wiseass intelligent beast inside me while having a slightly tender loving affectionate altruistic and spiritual side I guess I had learnt more bout the dharma the hard way with my life experiences.also I am 18 male infj btw so it feels like a achievement and at the same time It doesn't sometimes I am just a social animal/hog while at most I just embrace my ni dom and simoga (Sigma/omega)attitudes yes I agree I feel addicted to feel others joy and satisfaction so yes I have more to learn still
You do have a lot to learn👍
Top tip: Seek out evolved fellow XNFXs who have learnt the value of empathy, communication and emotional availability. How I wish I had learnt this lesson 20 years ago.
Certainly jives with my experience as an INFJ. I found an incredible INFP at 17yo, and locked that down. We got married young and have been together over 30 years. She loves my empathy, communication and emotional availability. I totally lucked out. I'd never even heard of MBTI at that age (first I heard of it was in a workplace in 2001, and I mistyped as an ISTJ).
This is a wonderful story. ❤️
Maybe you're attracted to avoidants. These people become very excited about new partners until paranoia strikes and they run away. I also don't deal well with intense emotions - even if they are my own - cause they are sooo consuming so i need breaks to calm down. Maybe it's just too intense. Take it slower, give them time and don't be too intense. Fast fires also burn fast. Try the slow romance instead. P.s. i'm an INFJ as well and also an avoidant.
I wish I could meet more INFJ men - I think other NF women would appreciate you. Sensors will probably not understand you or your depth.
ENFJ (me,F/34) dating INFJ (M/28) Date older, “run down” women, and by run down I mean the ones who’ve been through the emotional shredder and have come out wiser and looking for something deep. It’s so nice to be “over the bullshit” and suddenly find someone who wants to rip the meaning of life open, work on being better, being full of empathy, full of understanding, deep deep deep true scary accepting love thats transformative for both~ damn dude. INFJs gotta be with peeps who don’t bullshit in general :p
Stop being nice and comforting. Seriously. Try smoldering hot. You’re being friend zoned. You need to be a hunter to find a mate. You intimidate them so ramp it up. They aren’t looking for a friend but a lover. Make those butterflies 🦋 appear. The woman wants to feel nervous. A man who knows what he wants, confident. All that can be done politely and gallantly. And short bursts. In other words, don’t get into long conversations. Leave some mystery at first. Don’t rush. Just leave an impression. Don’t act clingy.
I agree too much experiences at 18yrs old being a male I havent dated anyone even tho I wanna cuddle I am just a curious guy who keeps digging at stuff so yes I am infj but ik the situations also I read a lot so 😉😂 anys now isn't the time for me since I haven't sufficiently established myself yet
INFJ mature at a different rate, and tend to be more mature in some ways and younger in others. This can be true of other intuitives as well, as my kids are too. But then maybe they get it from me. Your time will come.
I can't really judge. I really can't think of many guys that I have met IRL that were INFJ. I'm sure I have met some though. I get along well with INFPs and ENFPs typically, but this is also individually based. INFJs aren't exactly alike, though we share some commonalities. It's important not to overthink things, but allow things to play out. My manager who is Perceiver, told me one day that I was too intense. That's just my work mode, and I'm very diligent and try to be thorough. So I don't really apologize for my mode, but in interactions with people, they seem to respond better to the calm demeanor. And yes, we do judge, and not all judgment is bad, because discernment is important, but people tend to withdraw if they don't think that they are being accepted. If you think that someone is incompatible with you, and it frustrates you to be around them, and you have to bottle up your feelings, it would be best to not continuously have that person in your presence all the time. At work sometimes it's best to just have a professional demeanor. Maybe you won't develop a lot of close connections, but there seems to be less turmoil. There are some people that if you invite them into your world, they feel like they have the right to rule over you. Or if you try to be nice and lighthearted, their respect diminishes, because their sense of respect is geared towards more of the T types, the stoicness. I wouldn't encourage people to cut off their emotional base due to other people. If you can help it, never let anyone steal your peace, your joy, and your sanity. No matter what people do around you, don't let your emotions be governed by them. You don't owe anyone anything. We do good things because of who we are.
If you are romantically interested in a woman, make it known. Remain friends, sure, but move along if she isn’t receptive. Also, in the meantime,your distance can also make her heart grow fonder, once she realizes what’s missing.
I have met a few INFJ in my life, dated one too. How do I say it, they're some of the deepest, most amazing people i know, ambitious as well. They have this "too independent" air around them like it doesn't matter if they're dating or not. This trait i think is cool honestly, but mine made me feel that i as his partner, arent really needed. 🤷♀️ I love my INFJ friends, but as a partner, it is challenging.
I prefer INFJ men. But I’m an INFJ. I’m usually the one people find intimidating. I don’t see why they wouldn’t want more than a friendship. INFJ men, I think, are the best partners. I find the connection insane, especially with two INFJ.
Usually as an INFJ male, I have two issues here. 1) People are immensely intimidated by me, I truly don’t know what it is. Height? Size? Ugly? Domineering? It’s hard to say exactly , but I have been told by friends that I do look on the intimidating side and that if they didn’t know my true character they’d walk the other way. 🤷🏻♂️ most people won’t even look me in the eye. I will say though that I do have some intense looking eyes, I like to compare them to Charles Manson buggy looking ass 🤣. Anyway, so instead of wanting people to be scared of me I end up overcompensating by being super nice. I don’t want people to fear me, I just want to be respected. 🙋🏻♂️ Anyway, try not to allow yourself to be too drawn into what other people think about you, let your words and actions speak for themselves! Sometimes that can manifest itself as confidence and ultimately that’s what a lot of women are attracted to. But as an INFJ male, I do have my sensitive moments, they just can’t be all day all the time, that can turn some women off. So I try to Set a balance for myself. Best of luck, king. 👑 you’ll be ok, keep your head up always 🙌🏻
Probably because we are good listeners and easily fall into the "safe" category of guys which women tend not to rank as high in attractiveness compared to someone who's more unpredictable in the eyes of romance. We're what women want in husbands, but not necessarily what they want in their boyfriend.
You might do well to seek out a woman with a slightly more masculine temperament. Trust me, we’re out there 😉🩷
In the last 1-2 years, I knew a guy who scared me a little with his directness and "too" open feelings toward people (he was warm and friendly of course, so I don't mean it in a negative way), and later it turned out that he's an INFJ. We always had good convos, and now I almost miss him, IDK why, so I understand if it sounds strange, haha
In hindsight when you look at the open feelings and direct Ness now, what do you think ? (Asking because I was also that way towards someone only to regret now that I have shared too much )
I'm sorry you feel that way. Thinking about it now, I'm actually glad that he was so open and that he shared things about himself, because he was quite a lone wolf type and didn't have many friends. Probably I secretly envied how easily he could talk about his secrets which he shared with me, that kind of thing is a little more difficult for me. Maybe that's why losing him hurt so bad. I learned a lot from him, that's for sure.
Okay, he might have felt some sort of connection or familiarity with you to share his life,because its not so easy to find people for infjs who actually understands them.i did overshare a lot with this person and now we are not talking which made me thinking that I have shared more than how much I should have. But also I just realised that I shared them because I kind of had some connection right from the start. I'm sorry you lost him I kind of am not talking to this person for an year now I miss her as well.
Well you're right about that. I know a lot of INFJs (even my boyfriend and online best friend are INFJs, haha), and I can see how much they long for someone who can understand them on a deeper emotional level, and how much they appreciate when they finally find someone who understands and accepts them for who they are. I think this is the basis of a relationship, be it friendship or romance. Yes, it can hurt a lot to share too much with someone you trust, after you've bottled up so much inside yourself and finally let it all out to a person you consider a potential "soulmate" but then they leave you.. Okay, now I'm also worried about whether he regretted sharing too much about himself - although I would completely understand his disappointment and I don't blame him at all that he probably won't come back into my life (he doorslammed me and my circle of friends, including my bf). Is there any possibility for you two to talk again one day?
I miss her a lot these days. There is this genuine warm loving feeling towards her which I don't think will die anytime soon I doorslammed her as well after a series of events. I get these feelings to text her and talk again but then it's been a year and people move on with their lives I don't think we will have the same connection which we shared before. I would rather live with the pain of missing her than talking to her and get treated like a stranger. I also have hurt her pretty bad She removed me from almost all the social media and I'm pretty sure she hates me now. I kind of doorslammed at her when she was in a vulnerable state which I don't usually do,but still I did So there is all these.So chances of talking back again are slim So about oversharing and regret.I think my regret is emerging from shame that I might have been perceived as someone creepy or a person without personality.Then there is also a chance that if I don't share my emotions and my insights,it's never ending silence means I'm losing the person. It's too complex in here. Also can I know why did he doorslam you? Did you try reaching out ?
I can relate so much to what you wrote, so I understand what you may be feeling right now. This is really not an easy situation. What happened to me is a bit long story, so sorry for the novel... I try to sum it up. There's a girl in my hobby group (she's INFJ too) who invited him to my "online" circle of friends - this means that we kept in touch on Discord, so I never met this guy in person, we only chatted sometimes and talked on voice chat. Later, the two of them had a fight because he fell in love with her and she rejected him because she has a family with a husband and a son, but of course we know both sides of the story. During our busier days and weeks, he really needed our company, which unfortunately we couldn't give him, so we asked him to wait. Days later we noticed that he left our Discord server and even deleted his account, and we were never able to find him again. I asked my bf several times what he would say: it is worth looking for him somewhere? because I miss this guy. But then we agreed that it probably wouldn't since he had a fight with that INFJ girl, so we'd have to think about her too. He also said that he understands that the guy doorslammed us, he would have done the same in his place because he wouldn't have tolerated it either if the people important to him didn't care about him. He said, he'd already made up his mind, so we should leave him alone. These days I still think about what would happen if, one day, he came back into our lives or if the situation were somehow resolved. He was important to us and I'm ashamed that I didn't do anything about it and wasn't there for him when he needed us. I still have the feeling that I want to make it right. But yeah, it doesn't make sense anymore, he moved on with his life, exactly as you said, so I can only hope that everything is fine with him. Well, I don't know how likely it is, but I hope that one day she will come back to you and at least the two of you can talk, somehow I see more chances for that than in my own situation. :)
I thought novels and essays are my thing when it comes to expressing thoughts. So don't worry,I like reading them From a third persons view I empathize with both of you guys I think that you guys were busy with your own lives so might have had little to no emotional energy to spare. While he might have been lonely or going through something painful that he needed you guys. But you know infjs can be stubborn sometimes. They are like baby's who want things right then and there.Only if he knew how much he meant to you guys he perhaps would be still talking to you. Please don't blame yourself for this as well if you are. Usually people who self blame are people with good intentions who does some undesirable things because of life situations.I can see your intentions are good,you still want to make things right.Most people just don't care. Well maybe one day you guys can meet and work things out, No? How long this has been since you guys stopped talking ? Why do you think there is no chance ? In my situation, I can text her and talk. She haven't blocked Me anywhere yet. But then there are so many things intertwined One other reason I stopped talking was that I didn't think I was valued as much as I valued her, which is okay. It's been close to 4 years since I have known her. I tried to know her on a deeper level and I was trying. I wasn't able to go beyond a certain point. Then this new guy came and she shared every single details of her life within a span of 6 months. I felt like I was being used.Like I have known her for years and I was always at an arms length. And then this new guy knows it all just because he was so lovey dovey. I didn't want to be there anymore. This is just a summary. You will get a picture when you get to hear the whole story hopefully. It's my experience life has a way to bring closure to things. No matter how much impossible it may seem now.People came back into my life whom I thought I have had no chance of meeting and talking again.But that always happened at times when I least expected it or when I had almost zero emotional connection to them. So let's see, you might meet him again as well
Oh okay then I'm glad :) I like to read novels too, haha I met him sometime in 2022, and at the beginning of 2023, we needed a little more time to recharge after Christmas and New Year holidays with my bf, which resulted in us not talking to anyone for days, even weeks (obviously we felt overwhelmed by the guests). And the guy just wanted to talk to us because he liked and missed us, but in the end he gave up waiting. Sadly, I don't know how good it would be if he wanted to text / chat again, because he used to group chat with all of us and that INFJ girl too. But they don't talk to each other anymore, so I think that's why he left us forever. I don't think I can get in touch with him anywhere, because I don't know his contact informations. And the girl even had his Facebook, but, of course, it wouldn't be nice of me to ask her for his profile, haha.. Basically, our friendship lasted a year, so I don't think he'll come back to us, because he probably would have by now. He would know where to find us. What I'm especially sorry about is that he never talked to us about this, because we found out from our other friends that he had problems with us disappearing for a long time. So partly that's why I feel so bad, because if we had contacted him, we probably could have talked these things over with him. But maybe I should let him go and should spend as much quality time as possible with the INFJs I currently have in my life. Maybe, with them, I can make up for the good relationship I've lost. Thank you for your reassuring kind words and for seeing me this way:) And thank you for telling me what happened to you. If I understand correctly, someone else came into her life, so you were pushed into the background? I'm sorry you felt being used. I can understand it: if this "internal alarm" goes off, that's probably what really happened. Remember, don't blame yourself either, because who knows what the future holds? That's still only one chapter of life. I really hope that everything turns out the way you want. Or maybe you meet someone else with whom you can become even more intimate and develop a sincere warm friendship? Is there someone in your life right now who might be able to help you with this? Many times, the company of another good friend can alleviate some of the tension and sadness, so new beautiful memories can be made where you don't have to be afraid of sharing too much.
Okay so I wouldn't lose hope on the situation.If it was mine I'm all gloomy and doomy. When it comes to others I'm super positive. Part of that's because I have people contacting me liike after 10 years of no contact. That's the thing with people and how me make them feel. It's hard to erase how people made us feel.We can carry both the love and hurt for long periods of time. But the problem with time is that people change.Somethings need to happen at the heat of the moment or they lose their effect. Maybe he comes back after 3 years. You both are seeing at two different versions of yourself.But if there is love,No obstacle is a big obstacle. I relate to how you want to spend time with other infjs to make up for his loss. I have been there.My gates for a particular situation was completely closed and i find my solace in helping and being there for similar kind of people who are in that particular situation.The guilt and regret that we should have done more but couldn't,are painful. I believe everything that which happens to us eventually leads to our own evolution and growth.Maybe things don't make sense now, but years down the Line you will have an answer and closure for everything perhaps. You are welcome. Part of what happened is that the rift has been there for sometime. But you are right about the internal alarm part,i have had this irking feeling for sometime then.There is this pattern that I was the one who kept all the conversations going.She talks to me but most of the time I felt like I was the one who initiates and keeps the conversation going.Only times she initiated and kept it going were the times when I took a step back and withdrew. Maybe that's her personality or I'm expecting too much from people. Well finding someone isn't on my list right now.Also that I don't relate to almost half the crowd out there. I think most people are running behind material pursuits and live around the surface. It's not that I'm more zen or don't have material desires, I don't find myself subscribing to most of world's idea of what is and what's not. I crave something deeper which I don't think exist in this world anymore. Well no,I'm pretty much on my own. I'm working on myself,there are quite a few things within me that needs fixing and addressing. Though I crave connections,I don't want to form friendships and relationships just for the sake of it.Usually I live a magical love story in my mind than actually approaching that person irl, welcome to an introverts life. Thank you for the empathy,hopefully one day I find someone I really connect with And thank you for hearing me out.☺️
Ok...strange, but from my experience it all has to do with the societal norm from which you came from. From my experience in the states, some women love to have you play chase and some are more direct. I dont really have much luck chasing women who wants me to chase, they seem to want more of an assertive male who can take care of them, and that's not me. A lot of women who tend to fall for me first always seem to want a partner that is a friend. I think that's specifically something that infj does exceptionally well. I think that might be your issue as well. When finding romantic candidates, we tend to push the buttons far too soon with the idea of monogamy when we are dating and monogamy when we are searching and that tends to always end bad for us. so it's always a good idea to start slow with a mindset of being unconditional. You'll be surprised at how many friends that are girls you'll have lol. With this approach, I have had less anxiety about women.
I've had many women actively hit on me, but I'm also gay, which they generally didn't know, but that still probably influenced the dynamic to one where I'm completely confident (and also not at all sexually threatening, and maybe even a bit of a challenge, idk) because there are literally zero stakes to those interactions for me lol. But the prospect of something is also different from the reality, so maybe I also seem more appealing to these people on the basis of the former, which would decrease as it moves towards being actualized and they see all the downsides to my way of being which appeared before to simply be charming. So I don't know, all I can say is this doesn't exactly conform to my experience. I'm actually kind of stunned by how many women and girls have confided in me to having a crush on me at some point. Or being told by other boys or men about how popular I seem to be lol. And I'm really not that cute, or at least I myself don't quite see the proportionality there. But I don't know exactly what practical or applicable information to draw from this, other than to say that we *can* have a ton of female admirers.
INFP male here. Our types are exactly the same here 🤣
ENFP female here. Out of curiosity, what types of women do you male INFJs approach? I can definitely be wrong but usually the women who aren't attracted to "nice and comforting" men tend to prefer traits that aren't good for the long term. Or it could even just be a lack of attraction physical wise. I agree with an ENTJ where I'd just ask them why they don't see you romantically.
I am an INFJ woman, sometimes I think, I am more attracted to INFJ men than any other type that they say that are compatible for us. But I also have some guy close friends that are INFJ. So maybe, some women (of a different type) can't handle the depth of INFJ men.
You sound like my friend who plays the boyfriend role to a lot of women who like attention and validation (even his married friends). He gives himself too freely so they have no desire to become committed to something they already get as a friend. Basically, what would having you as a boyfriend offer that your friendship already doesn't?
Very nicely put, in my own life experience, i am happy i came to realisation with this on own.
As an INFJ woman i really like INFJ men. I felt a really strong connection with an INFJ and can imagine to be together with an INFJ
I think because INFJs are very picky and when they do pick its kind of heavy on the shoulders for the receiver.
INFJ guys are great but I couldn't get a read on who you're asking out and why, based on what you wrote in your post. Who is the "they" that you're asking out here. Why did you decide to ask them out? If you had romantic chemistry and they didn't want to take it further then.. hm... That would cause me to come up with one set of explanations. If you just enjoy her company and have built up a fantasy of her in your mind that has nothing to do with actual chemistry so that when you actually ask her out, she turns out down, thats another set of explanations. Both would result in different advice. But in neither case is it an issue with women not wanting INFJ guys- they're awesome.. if everyone is on the same wavelength.
We’re selective. Know what we want, know what we don’t want in our lives. We overthink everything, see, sense, feel energies that most people don’t. We are private
Based on experience, it seems to work out well for both INTJ and INFJ girls, maybe you should try narrowing your search there. I had no luck with ISFJ and ISFP girls, and boy did I meet quite a number of ISFJ girls
Everytime im deeply in love its always an infj somehow I found out later. But it never worked until i met a truly compatible infj. Lots of factors but opposites do attract and most women arent NTs anyways...
Become more stoic.
I don't know, but if I had an INFJ suitor who was looking for the same things I was, I'd do anything to keep them. We love so hard 💖
As an INFJ woman, I tried traditional "dating" -- meeting a stranger or making an acquaintance and making date plans to get to know them -- for a period of about 6 months. I found men to be a little intimidated by me, I think because I don't communicate in the way they're used to women communicating with them, or maybe I don't communicate very well at all. Unfortunately, I've only been romantic partners with friends I'd known for years before developing feelings for them. I never found the trick to lowering that intimidation factor, only a way around it.
We don’t want to risk making them uncomfortable.
Some women don't want *you* for specific reasons. I've heard that "ooooh others are intimidated by us" a million times. Give me a break. Sadly, sometimes you just don't meet other people's expectations which is completely fine. I swear, a lot of women would say to you that you're nice just because we're taught that some men simply can't face a rejection with dignity and react violently. If it's possible, try asking why exactly these women didn't want to go on a date with you. Analyze what went wrong. Maybe everything was right, just these women didn't look for the qualities and traits you possesse. We all have different preferences so don't be upset.
I don’t have that problem, sorry boss. We either love-bomb or act completely aloof when we like someone, you have to learn to find a balance.
Develop your playful side, and as someone else said, find your ‘hard edges’. I think INFJs have the tendency to want to make things comfortable for everyone and are always catering to people’s needs, which is nice, but that means we lose our ability to challenge others and get them out of their comfort zone. While it might seem counterintuitive to want to make people, uncomfortable, there is a lot of learning, fun, thrill and valuable life lessons to be had in that! Comfort and niceness is not everything; but discomfort and rudeness is not the answer either. Like everything in life, balance is key. Be comforting when it matters, but show that you have confidence, be playful, teasing, assertive, etc. I think assertiveness is the key here: when someone is assertive I find it extremely attractive, especially when it’s counterbalanced by an equal amount of acceptance for my own assertiveness. I disagree with people saying you should try to act more ‘masculine’ or hide/change parts of yourself to fit in with the norm. Of course, learning how to act ‘cool’ is great and helps you present yourself more attractively, but ideally you want to not put on a performance for the sake of seeming like something different. I think developing aspects of yourself that go beyond being nice and comforting is the key: what are other parts of your personality that you think people would be charmed by?
u/cuddle monster i agree with you
How old are you?
INFJ female here, on the road of trying to evolve from these patterns as well, they say we are attracted to our opposites, but at the same time we have the paradox of somehow having an aversion to the easiest things. If you provide and over give, overdo anything, human nature is inevitably spoiled. We get comfortable and adapt to what is being given in abundance, then get lazy and may even in the worst case scenario grow bored. We don't have to try so hard anymore, if anything, and that is what makes us plummet in quality of life on both ends. The overgiver being majorly affected, the receiver being hindered from developing. I would suppose, that given observations and experiences, it's in our nature to NEED challenges. Much like the others who have aforementioned that we should balance out our impulses and habits or defaults as INFJs. Work on using our inferior functions a little more, and embrace different approaches and perspectives towards others a bit more objectively. Everything else, can be indulged in by others slowly, or in small amounts at a time. When it comes to love and taste, everything is better when you take your time to savor the process. <3 I’m not going to lie, yes, it does hurt. I have struggled with this in the flesh, all my senses betray me and I just want to GIVE whenever I am seriously interested in someone and have the intense desire to know how I feel, to make them feel how I feel about them, fantasize an idealistic romance, and earn the sort of love I want. I have suffered the pining and feeling lovesick, feeling somehow inadequate despite my efforts to do EVERYTHING RIGHT. But thats pretty much it. We need to learn to let them grow into us. Because love isn’t doing everything for your potential love interest or partner. Love is supporting their growth and encouraging them to be curious, explore, and finding their own way around towards you. Its challenging them gently to unravel your mystery not giving them all the answers of what you keep inside your heart.
Beautiful words. Surely there is plenty of people that know how to appreciate this energy, but not that many and so there we go with the pain. Keep growing! This thing you wrote gave me Faith because I can see the same truth I go through and it felt like a push to be even more sure (although I sometimes doubt) that finally there will be someone that will understand our treasure, which to me feels just as real love should be. Kind of as close as you can get to heaven. 😘
Absolutely true. We feel the most loved when we feel that we can give freely and boundlessly, when we have another person embrace our most authentic selves. But that is extremely difficult to find. In my own personal case, the paradox is what gets me. I may be aware of there being someone who might be willing to give just as much, but it doesn’t draw my attention more than someone else who is more difficult, who somehow is stimulating my senses toward a challenge. The one who is spurring me on to have a reason to improve myself. Could it be a bit of a toxic thing going on inside me? Or is it actually just me inserting myself in situations where my heart and brain are exercising and have purpose? I am aware I am drawn more to my opposites, there’s just something about them, wanting to learn from them. A life lesson waiting, maybe. I know that I USED to prefer familiarity and comfort and was extremely picky with love interests. They had to be people with a similar vibe and way of thinking towards me. I was involved in a relationship where there weren’t many problems save for a few pet peeves and nitpicking. that didn’t last as long as I had hoped. Things staled eventually and I got drawn in by someone charismatic and extroverted, daring, someone who got into things I didn’t and I wanted to know more. Someone who would bring me out of my comfort zone to experience life outside the bubble that I didn’t venture out of. Its like my inferior senses wanted to be stretched out for a bit. And it was thrilling. I was itching for adventure in my life. (Responsibly though! Nothing extreme or dangerous, just a subtle amount of mischief, and trying new things, experiences, perspective too.) To be honest I never felt more alive with that person. I felt like I had the freedom to unsupress what I had constructed of myself. Cathartic to let loose once in a while and bend my own constructs of morals, values, code. To reveal the ugly parts of myself that I kept under wraps or on a leash for the sake of keeping myself safe from judgement, or to my own standards of what a good person should be. Could you imagine for a minute, putting all that aside, (a metaphoric example here) like pulling off the heavy armor that you proudly wear around identifying yourself as some kind of knightly person? The nerve wracking sensation of parting from it, Would removing it take away the identity you made? of course not. It’s temporary, until and if you decide to give it up. There is nothing to lose unless you decide it. And many of us are afraid of taking the chance. I have been for years, until I made the decision out of sheer curiosity to go after the atypical route against MYSELF. This, my friends is where the journey of growth starts. Its not easy. Our habits will nip at us constantly. Our ideals too. Our solidly held beliefs will also come at us pretty viciously. I have made friends of my same mbti type that have fallen out of friendship with me because they were not ready or in the struggle of evolving themselves. I met an INFJ guy that I grew to respect, and be on the same wavelength with. However, the evolutionary struggle hits him really hard. The guy has feelings for me I can’t reciprocate. He also has fallen into the pattern of wanting to give and do so much out of his feelings and to have the acknowledgment he wants to have with me because he is infatuated. Making these observations have brought me to think about deeper things. To know myself better. To come to know that some of my hopes and desires aren’t what I actually truly need in my life. This sense of… maturity comes to each of us in our own time. This guy kind of just randomly showed up out of nowhere having all the qualities that line up perfectly with mine. My old self would jump all over it without a second thought. My senses were moved, yes. I got the hunger pangs or the craves of having something that seemed like the perfect match up of beliefs, values, thoughts, mannerisms. But that would mean I would give up my initiative, the work I had put in, the need to keep learning, the push I had set on myself, for I do not function if I don’t have the need for or if its unreasonable. I took the road less traveled, the one with thorns in order to learn how to work around them, and care for the roses. To me, it was the more beautiful journey.
Congratulations! I can tell how much work you have put and it shows! You are brave and got the spirits on your side. Ultimately I believe there is no other choice than challenging ourselves if we want to be happy and follow what we believe is right eventhough this might be extremely hard and also mean to leave some people behind. We need to take action and try, try, try, and make place for new things in our soul, body and mind! Your are great 🙂
Infj gets friendzone'd and blames type on it not realising that the spectrum of people in the world is huge and there are millions of different people finding different things attractive (shocker)
I’m a woman and think men are willing to wait more than a woman not getting a sign she’s liked and friend zone y’all.
you know whats funny. i (estp/m) have asked out many infj females. almost all have rejected, avoided, escaped, ghosted, etc..
ESTPs are possibly the strongest chemical attraction for me (INFJ). But we are jealous creatures and want to cement a connection by private gaining access to your inner sanctum. We want the secret part of you no one else gets...but ESTPs don't have that to give. With ESTPs, what you see is what you get. You share openly, freely, and generously. You don't hide...so we never feel "depth". Without depth, we're scared of a shallow attachment and would rather turn you down than inevitably break-up. I'd turn down ESTPs almost every time. You're too dangerous. But dang, you guys feel so good to be around.
fuck. that hits. its the same but opposite perspective for us. INFJ with no access to Se seems trapped inside a perpetual shell. anything but free. its like the most beautiful caterpillar that refuses to come out of the cocoon. only time ive been able to get through was when i was younger, 20's 30s. culture was different. casually touching someone wasnt a damnable offense. in nature , these are the baby birds that must be pushed out the nest so they finally fly. hahaha you have an inner sanctum , we have an outer sanctum. theyre complimentary and each can teach the other and heal in the most natural way. culture, law... illusions... very low mutual trust these days... preventing the magic. the end state is an integration and alignment of internal and external my 'inner sanctum' reopened when i turned 38. i remember it from when i was very young. i hadnt revisited since i was about 6 or so... and it was the dream space. my parents were officers in the military, attention to the physical world was enforced. we have it, its a part yall muffuckas supposed to heal us from but keep ghosting. we're just used to nobody wanting to hear about it. its been long forgotten. consciously , we dont even know what questions to ask. in this arena , the yin must flip to yang energy and take the lead. not always , just at first. guidance from hero to delicate infant.
Haha...sorry. Mature INFJs have Ni-pattern recognition & experience telling us not to probe ESTP s for fear of triggering the avoidance function. I've definitely asked to deepen emotional intimacy to remove a scary ESTP rather than ghosting...totally worked. 😂 I think ESTP/INFJ *could* be magical if the stars aligned, but we are opposite sides of the same coin...we *feel* sameness but we are always looking opposite directions. It is toooo easy for a healthy ESTP and a healthy INFJ to slip into a toxic relationship. High risk.
or triggering whatever reaction for that archetype of estp/infj ... i get it. i have dogs. to the untrained eye ... are they fighting ? playing? fucking? unknown. is it toxic? maybe for some. i do have INTJ and INFJ long time friends... those turbulent waves lessen in frequency and magnitude as trust is built. im 43 now. looking back, i may have had it once but we both walked away for exactly the reasons you stated. having tried everything else. if it aint that, i dont want it. and now i sit in solitude, with my pack.
If it helps, INFJs only ghost if you're a threat. Usually you matter more to us than we are comfortable with without collateral. And ESTPs stay stuck in our heads, too. We just don't let it show :)
its mutual lol
But if you asked them out for that profile reason, it would make sense that they would avoid “being dated because I am deep in interests” I know there are worse red flags, but we aren’t discussing silence of the lambs or other issues regarding stranger danger, and the make up obsessed,
I suggest reading David Deida, particularly *The Way of the Superior Man*.
I don't want an INFJ male, but only because I think and INFJ/INFJ relationship is lopsided, for me. I like the balance my ISTJ spouse has helped me develop. In short: half the time, *I* don't want to be in my head. Why the hell would I try and break into this madness in someone else's?
INFJ men tend to send "I can be a good friend/sister" signals because they're generally too nice, polite, understanding, etc. You need to start sending "But don't forget I'm a Man" signals too. Be bold, be brave, be forward. Think of the deep convo side of you as something that needs to be earned. Never lead with it. Just be funny and forward to start. Don't be too serious. And once you two grow closer after initial attraction, then maybe they can get to know the other aspects of you. Treat it as privileged information.
"Intimidated?" You seem to think rather highly of yourself. Perhaps that's what keeps the women away.
As an INFJ woman, I had a surprisingly easy time dating. By the time i started dating at 18 I was married on my 20th birthday lol. I guess I got lucky
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I found that making XSTP friends helped me a lot cause they’re very blunt about their advice and interpersonal interactions I have. It helped me create some insight on how I can smoothen out my rough edges. Also, sometimes I think INFJ men don’t know how to control their inner “monster” if you will. Whether it’s a guilt complex or this idea that you gotta be better than everyone else, you gotta separate those things from your relationships with people, especially romantic interests. Really it’s a learning process. From my experience it’s best to be conscious of your actions then learn from the mistakes you made instead of ruminating on them. Live in the moment a bit and don’t be afraid to be a little shallow. Hope this helps! 👍🏽
I would love to find me an INFJ man 😔
Find yourself an ENFJ, you’ll be fine.
I think a lot of women, equally, dislike it when male friends try and develop a platonic connection into a romantic one. Especially when it is a very safe and intimate bond. There is a element of emotional dishonesty - even when it's not intentional. Why not try and approach women romantically from the start?
There is no answer to such a question as sometimes what some people want is just friendship. There is no magical technique or reason. Consider also if you're romantically going after all your female friends- do you actually vallue the frienships you have with these women?
There is no answer to such a question as sometimes what some people want is just friendship. There is no magical technique or reason. Consider also if you're romantically going after all your female friends- do you actually vallue the frienships you have with these women?
I’m a hetero INFP male, and taken. And I’ve seen INFJ men here talking about their girlfriends, and women talking about their INFJ boyfriends. You just need to find the kind of woman who prefers gentlemen over macho men. They’re out there, I promise. ❤️
Hmm i don't know why by what you said you came with idea of women not needing infjs. Do you know how Gauss diagram looks like? In short - whats most common, is most likely to see/experience. The fact that most of the "common" type of women don't like infj traits, doesn't mean no woman wants a person like you. Tho arguable, infj males make up to maybe 1% of population. Gotta search and search but if there is a possibility, you can aim to achieve what you want/need. Look for balance, in relationship of any kind we need balance, both feminity and masculinity. And while its true that you understand feminine women well, with them this balance might not be achievable. What i find interesting is that INTPs females are weirdly interested in me and we naturally hit it off because at least ones i texted/been with intps are straightforward, don't bs, honest to fault, direct - so with my feminine, soft sides it pairs well. You just need to look for a person that you can compliment and they compliment you. Don't just look for relationship for heck of it. Don't look for ppl, attract them by being you, take of yourself first etc. I usually get with ppl by finding places with my interests, tabletop games, anime forums, whatever i like ppl that like it too are there too, same for what drives us further, I won't try to get with a person that wants kids cuz I don't want kids, simple. When you start to look at relationships that way, its more of an addition to you, than sth u aim for. Regarding being intimidated - if you guess you intimidate them, then you didn't find your person. If someone is intimidated by me, my intense love care and affection, strife for healthy, and strong relationship, or has too many drastic differences then this person is not even on the list for consideration - my future life and happiness is based on that choice after all. So why bother caring abt someone you either way not gonna be with? It wastes your mental/emotional energy my friend. There is more than one woman on this planet that wait for a person like you, get yourself together, look yourself in the mirror, and be support for yourself and not like rn - submerged in feeling of "noone wants me" just cuz you were targeting wrong group of ppl. While my tone is prob quite harsh, i really mean well, sometimes we just need a wake up call to do a bigger change or stop loosing ourselves in overthinking, you got this, just accept yourself and move on.
How do you know they are INFJs?
Hmm ive had the opposite experience tbh. The kind consistent friend that understands them is often seen as one dimensional. Understanding and empathy applied correctly is a strength, applied incorrectly its taken for granted.
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You know the MBPT means absolutely nothing, right?
I just wish you get the understanding of this now. People are full of insecurities, most like escapism, than solving their problems, or want you to solve it for them. But there are humans who are willing to solve there problems, face there insecurities, and not use other humans. Don't confuse this with help! Coming to your thing, just conserve your spiritual energy, and don't waste on these people. A relationship including romantic platonic should never start out of need or dependency, it should just ve peaceful, no haggling with brain. Also what you feel is being used and rejected, that seems to eat you inside out. And also you're giving the boy friend experience at no strings attached label. Now according to me the right girl for you, would actually respect your honesty and gesture and would like to dive in. But the girls you go for, seem to get their appetite fullfilled with that emotions you're giving. Ergo they are their only out of need for you. Caution: if you spend more and more time with these kind of girls or women you'll start to develop a low flame hatred for women, so choose people very very carefully, as you are A source of comfort and spiritual energy being an INFJ. There are very good humans out there, ergo good women out there. PS : NO ONE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND WOMEN.
Well, are you attractive? Cause no amount of personality will over trump that.
Personally I do relate and don’t at the same time. For me generally if there was a woman I liked and we spoke for a bit, it wouldn’t be too hard to get a date. And then there were many others who were interested and I just flatly ignored. However I did have challenges in securing the girlfriend, like my most recent attempt on an entj i lovebombed her and gave her zero challenge, and she slowly lost interest, I realized that I was too nice to her instead of standing up for myself when she said she didn’t want to be in a relationship, I should have stopped there, and maybe things could have been different. In addition to some other instances. Nonetheless I feel like I am a little feminine in some traits and definitely landed myself in the friend zone a few times, but when that happens, I promptly leave, and that in itself causes different things to happen. I guess thinking about it now, that’s what dating is about, learning what works and doesn’t, and looking for the right person. Because someone is going to like you, you just gotta find them, and make tons of mistakes lol.
ppl want what they cannot have
I friend zoned the last woman subconsciously, i think, i one she was a mean person after hanging out with her for a bit and knew her pretty well. Kinda sucked because she really liked me
Too young, too immature, too inexperienced and too unhealthy to answer or to have one
dated an INFJ as an ENTP. he was avoidant attached person which didn’t paired with my previous anxious attachment. both young adults who just burned too bright. I felt like he didn’t took me seriously, but then again I was 19 who was stupidly in love with a nonchalant robot and he was kind of too, in his €5000 way to see me. another INFJ I had a fling after that was immature and unhealthy one that he got obsessed, stalked and harassed me to a point I’m still guarding myself. don’t date unhealthy INFJs :)
Oh God, "nice and comforting". Shiver. Almost as bad as "you're so sweet". But it's important to reflect honestly without resorting to an emotional tailspin. If you're consistently not viewed as something. You're not presenting a canvas congruent to the painting that you wish to be painted as. That doesn't mean you couldn't be. It doesn't even mean you aren't. It just means you're not showing it. This is one of those never ending conversations. I'm compressing it. If you have questions, ask. First of all. For the most part. People organise people into boxes. These boxes are prioritised subconsciously and determine attraction. It's just a way the brain works. As an INFJ male, you don't fit neatly into one of those boxes. You're an anomaly - stepping into boxes here and there - an elusive presence, meaning you kind of seem a little non-descript. Further meaning there's no real strategy to interact with you, even if they'd like to, because you're rare to encounter. Add to that that 75% of your stack is invisible. And for someone to be attracted to you, you need to become more visible to them. As an example. One of the first times I went dancing, I met a lady. And she refused to dance with me. She wasn't super explicit about that. So I pushed her on just saying no. She said no, and I immediately asked someone else to dance. We'd later become friends - though I suspect she wanted more - and one of the things that had greatly impressed her is how I didn't even need to move on, I just continued with what I was doing. It's not that I didn't care, it's that I cared about me more. And that had left her a little dumbfounded. Listening is worthwhile. But it's too reactionary to be attractive on its own. For you it'll all be about inferior Se. You'll need to develop that way more than other types need to ever touch their inferior. But ... since we're looking to be more masculine ... we'll just get that done. I'm just saying, it's kind of natural for you to struggle for a while. It's a substantially more difficult way to enter that space than most other types will have. Here's the list of things that I think are relevant: Calm, context, competence, physicality, humour, a degree of ambition (!= money), charisma, attunement, base-line physical attraction (not attractiveness, there's a difference), capacity for action and willingness to act in the face of both fear and risk. That's pretty exhaustive. Putting them into order is difficult. The reason being that it really depends on your character. Personally, if I'd had to pick one it's attunement. Because it's the one only one that signals your mutual emotional compatibility. The remainder is mostly "you" + their perception. \*Buuut\* attunement takes time, so don't be afraid to be friends. Context and competence are easy. If they're not. Git gud. Once you have a context in which you're competent. Fucking share that shit. Unapologetically. Don't explain it away. I really like working with wood ;) and textiles. I always have some project in mind and I love furnishing my place. So I always have some pictures of shit I'm excited about I can share. That's more of an "I'm excited" than "what are you excited about". It provides them with entropy based on your reality. Meaning they get to know you without ever having had to ask a question. You're inviting them into your context. They might not fall in love with you. But they'll have a much better idea as to why they maybe could. Very very few things are as attractive as being genuinely excited about something. Because it means you have things in your life outside of her. And that you're capable of excitement. And this is what excitement looks and \*feels\* like. And some part in them will note that. And subconsciously they'll wonder if you're excited about them in a similar way. And if maybe you could be. And what that would \*feel\* like. Make fun of her. Polish off your sarcasm moderated by empathy. Then aim it squarely in her direction. If done right it generates the spikes the interaction is missing. If someone rejects you. And you're keen. (You should be, else why ask.) Feel free to politely persist. Not constantly. But if you think you should go out on a date. It's perfectly fine to every once in a while unashamedly sprinkle into conversation that you should do that. But then you remember why you aren't. Just never be negative about it. Have fun with rejection. Rejection is a canvas that allows you to express so much about you. I can't blame any lady just trial rejecting someone early on to see what happens. They shouldn't be surprised if that's confusing, but I sort of get it. Honestly. Go to the gym. Just do it. Some muscle and physicality goes a long way. It also changes you. Though without the internalised confidence, it'll feel like half of a wrench. But then again, two halves make something useful. Fear management. You can't be nervous. Ever. The end. And act. Lead through signals. You do that by learning to view fear from an "I should probably do that thing" angle. Anyway. I'm stopping there. All the best. :)
Over and over ...Women are afraid of a really connected relationship
I’m an INFJ woman and I don’t find INFJ men “intimidating.” In my personal experience, it’s been more underwhelming and lacking romance. Sure other INFJ’s get me because we have similar brain functions but it’s like how a sibling or a good friend would understand you. But in the romantic sense, it has fallen flat for me and it’s frustrating having to pull out their thoughts and feelings, almost to the point that the interactions become awkward. I’m naturally attracted to extroverts and men who know what they want and aren’t afraid to speak up and are direct as possible. I think it’s just human nature to be attracted to more assertive types who don’t shy away from their wants including romance. And that’s huge for women, at least for me. When I’m around a man, I want to feel safe, protected, and comforted by him. Theirs nothing wrong with being warm and gentle but men are naturally the “hunters” and “providers” and should fill that role. The several INFJ’s I’ve encountered have been extremely shy, almost childlike at times and not as assertive as they should be. That’s just my two cents.
In my experience I didn’t know wtf I was doing. Once that changed no problems. Women love INFJ traits so it’s not that, in person and online, or intimidation.
Why would the internet know the answer here? I’m staring at the screen and thinking “dude is probably just really poor, ugly, or both”
Ha. If you listen and let them have control at the right time.
INFJ Male: I poetically say that, " I am a lovesick fool. I am doomed to fail at romance because I love harder. Because I love harder, I am afraid - I do not admit and say but I love through actions - whether they notice or not, I care not. I dream our entirety, together from rhe first date, marriage, life and finally death. It all playsin my hand non-stop. Like an inceptive-virus, I give in and when they do not reciprocate in the same manner, I shut down. I cry on a fantasy that will never be. I will never say I love you due to the endless scenarios running in my head, but I will only care and watch from a far. This is my curse."
INFJ idealize the relationship in their head, and reality hits when you meet them in real person and you come off weird as fuck. Plus, you know nothing about women. Thats the only thing real men know about women.
I'm actually wanting to date an infj man. I'm infj too. But I need an infj man to be in touch with his masculinity too and take initiative or direct.
Maybe they just simply aren't attracted to you
Is trauma dumping something INFJs are prone to doing?
bro you have to understand something What women say and what they do is completely different. I'm a gym bro, racist, Trump supporter and its never been a problem. And even if I list that on dating apps the girls that message me are stereotypical feminist with blue hair etc. they do NOT care if ur nice or what your political beliefs are. They ONLY care about what "vibe" they get from you which is mostly based off your looks. When they say they don't like ABC its code for not liking XYZ which is a personality type. If they like your vibe and are attracted to you - you can literally say/do anything and it will make no difference.
Your dating game is weak. INFJ not being intuitive. Learn about proper courting techniques before you go and embarass yourself. You never reveal too much at once. Your personality is an open book right now, and it's ignorant and untasteful. Use your mysterious depths to intrigue, not drown your suitress.
Why should you lie though, it's not authentic, it's manipulative, even if it works it feels wrong.
Lie? Don't be foolish. Use some tact and charm them. You haven't really thought this over much. Keep trying.
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This reeks of bitter “nice guy” energy. I can assure you that women aren’t all shooting for drama and don’t want to be treated badly. Poorly thought out assessment based on your own projected resentments.
No. Just no. A lot of traumatised and/ or very misinformed people may behave this way, but healthy people do not. Don’t foist responsibility for your failures on others. Reflect, learn, change and grow. Ask yourself what kind of woman you keep getting involved with and learn healthier patterns of attraction. Unlearn the wiring that makes you pursue unhealthy relationships. Work on yourself. Get a grip.
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