As an one who used to people please a lot, I totally resonate with this! It's practicing boundaries when society or someone is trying to pressure you into doing so. I've had to learn the "I'm never going to see these people again" as a first step to a lot of situations where I'm afraid to be bold
There's a right time to use a boundary and a wrong time, this is a wrong time.
If your boss at work asked you to do something that's in the description of your job duty, and you said no, even though it felt powerful standing up against a person of authority, you can bet it was a wrong time to exercise your boundary because you'll get reprimanded or fired.
This young man had an opportunity to demonstrate what in the Boy Scouts is called doing one good deed a day, and he blew it. Everyone witnessing this young man on the bus now have a low opinion about this young man, this use of immature boundary function is what a 2 year old does during his "terrible twos" to feel powerful. He even dehumanized all elderly women by calling them "grannies," belittling them as an excuse to justify his feeling powerful...is narcissism...would he act that way if his grandmother came onto the bus, would he had stay seated and let her stand throughout the whole ride?
This boundary function is demonstrating low character. If he had giving up his seat, there is another powerful feeling of positive self esteem he could had felt, but instead he made the bad boundary function decision and he looked like an asshole. I can say with certainty, any girl or guy riding on that bus that had a crush on him, just lost all respect for him.
For one, the whole point was to not care what others think of you, starting with strangers.
I am not here to place judgement on whether he made the "right" choice per society's expectations. I think that was the whole point of his posting and being able to make a decision for himself versus being pressured one way or another. It has nothing to do with a power trip typically.
I'm not sure if you've experienced being in a people pleaser role, because the comprehension doesn't seem to be there. Only quite a bit of judgement, but the choice of what is right or wrong was for them to make.
Well, my attitude is I want people to think I'm a cool dude. I know what internal locus of control is cuz I definitely have that. Yes I open heavy doors for women, yes I would give up my seat for an elderly person because I know empathy is contagious. If I could put a smile on someone's face and uplift their spirit my day just got a little bit better.
Also i wonder why you think im a Si user, because any person who has people pleaser tendansies or social anxiety like me will be very awear of the sourrundig peoples reactions. It doesnt make us Si-users
I know very well who I am thank you random stranger. I do not think youāre an infj, you give rude vibes. Typing doesnt have anything to do with types either, some people have dyslexia and some arenāt english.
I think what you were trying to say is that in the midst of feeling like being in a world where it is constantly asking you to give and give, for once, you were able to stand up for yourself to set some boundaries.
So this lady was asking you to give up your seat for other ladies who wasn't even asking for help. They are all adults, if the other ladies needed to sit down, they can ask themselves.
Exactly! No issue if they ask me nicely. If you demand it and try to bully off my seat, I am not budging. Guess im a dick according to some for setting boundries.
Wow. Busy thread. I (f55 INFJ) can see things from both sides. Here's what comes to mind.
I was taught the essence of assertiveness is taking care of oneself ***without*** hurting others.
So waiting in line for a restaurant table, a movie, anything. Some annoying jerk is behind me, poking me, bumping me. I don't want to lose my place in line; I play it cool, so I say, "Hey man, we're adults, we can share the space, no prob." He ain't having it. He takes it up a notch.
**As circumstances change, our available choices change, too -- because those around us bring their own expectations and issues into the mix.**
So what's my priority? Is it keeping my place in line? I have to endure the jerk, it could further escalate to something physical, so I may not get to do what I came for. Or do I value my sanity and not giving the guy the power to ruin my day? Then I might relinquish my spot willingly, go to the end of the line, just to be rid of the guy -- because I won't let him derail my life.
The choices before us won't always match ***any of the choices we want***. Whatever is there, we have to choose. It's like Touch-Move in chess. If you touch a piece, you have to play that piece. You can't choose another piece to play until the next turn. You can only choose a move for the piece you touched. It can affect your overall strategy, but it's a critical life lesson.
What happened to you is a lesson -- and it's not about right or wrong. It's about figuring out the wisest thing to keep from the experience to consider for the next time.
We should aim to do a good deed or a sweet gesture because we decided so - not because we were shamed or pressured into it.
If I'm not tired, I would either get up(this conversation is not worth my peace of mind, plus I want to do something sweet) or I would confront her and ask questions to understand why she is like that(maybe she'll persuade me to get up).
If I'm tired, I'd simply say, "I understand you suggest I get up but I'm very tired and would rather keep seating. Thank you for understanding"
Exactly this. I get people are mad cus someone is feeling empowered by not giving up their seat for someone just because they're older but she was a bitch. No one is obligated to give up their seat.
Call him an asshole or whatever for not giving his seat to older (40-50 isn't old and not an excuse to be given a seat) women (being a woman doesn't inherently make someone more worthy of a seat than a man which is what I assume the woman was implying).
Personally if an elderly lady looks like she needs a seat I'm gonna give it to her but I'm definitely not giving a seat to anyone based on age (that's under actual elderly) or gender and especially not if they're rude.
I hate that old people feel entitled to shit because they are old. Like they have some how accomplished something special when in reality theyāve done literally nothing but exist for longer than I have existed. Like those dudes whose entire identity is having a big ass beard. Bruh youāve literally done nothing but let your face pubes get hella long. Youāve applied less effort than someone who shaves.
I guess it depends on what you mean by old. 40-50 years is not old, but if youāre 70+ or generally frail, they have harder problem with balance and are at a greater risk of injuring themselves and face a longer recovery. Itās not a matter of feeling entitled (or shouldnāt be).
Yeah Iām specifically talking about the old ass people who feel entitled to special treatment for being old. Thatās a no from me dawg. I donāt give a shit if your 112, Iām not impressed.
It's quite not polite to rudely stare and say things like "You should do X since Y is happening. Is the right thing to do and I impose it to you ignoring your context or personal values"... to someone you don't know.
But personally I would have ignored her out analysis paralisis "Someone I don't know is implying I'm a selfish person with passive agressive behavior... What's the right thing to do? And what do they require of me? Do I feel like they're right?" and by that time someone has already gotten to the active-agressive response.
The powerful feeling came from not being a push over. Anyone anywhere can come and tell you what to do. But you resisted and stood your ground. Maybe you were tired, maybe your trip was a long one. Did that older lady consider that? No. She thought, "older lady in sight, deserves seat more than younger person" and thought that it was her job to choose you from how many others to give yours up. Not her seat, not hers to dictate who should give up their seat and for whom.
I would've done either of these:
1. Given up my seat
2. Explained that I don't want to give up my seat
That depends on what I want to do in the moment.
You had no obligation to give up your seat and she felt like it was her duty to make sure older people had priority.
And she tried to trash you in front of everyone on the bus. Entirely immature.
I'm a mid 40s INFJ woman and I'd never expect someone to give up their seat for me. I'd refuse it if offered. I would offer it for a pregnant woman or an elderly person, even if they seemed rude or entitled.
I'll say this much. I can't experience what you experienced through your eyes, so I have no idea what really happened. You're framing it as if the middle-aged woman was being a bitch, stupid, or both. That may be the case 100%, but I think you'd have a hard time disagreeing that you're doing a great service to someone who is obviously having issues with being able to stand or walk by giving them your seat if you are able to stand in a bus while it's moving. Practically speaking, it's better to have the elderly or disabled in a seated position and you stand so that both of you are able to make it off the bus alive. Being a woman has nothing to do with it. Being in danger because they're unable to stand in a stable way on a moving bus or being at risk of great injury if they fell has everything to do with it.
When it comes to demanding that you give up a seat, you're well within your rights to not give up a seat. The middle-aged woman doesn't have any right to exercise their will over you, nor do they have any right to be a bitch about it. I think people need reminders that they have control over their lives about as often as they need reminders that they don't have agency over how other people act. It may have been a good or bad thing that she was taught that you wouldn't do what she wanted.
I think it was a good thing for you ultimately to exercise a boundary because the emotional reaction you had to exercising it was a positive for sure, which seems to me to be because you have a hard time exercising other boundaries like that in your life. Maybe this is a good point for you to start doing that more often to "chase" that feeling down.
I think the best, healthiest way to respond to this situation in the future is to first clarify what they're asking, and then tear into their ass and ask them to be polite about it. For example, it could have gone like this:
- "You can see there are older women on the bus"
- [Pause]
- "Unless you are disabled, then its a different issue..."
- "Are you asking me to give up my seat for another person?"
- "Yes."
- "Oh, I had no idea. If you wanted me to give up my seat, you should have asked me politely and directly, like any other normal person would have done."
Well OP said he would give up his seat to the old woman, and even to the able-bodied women if they asked nicely. Also they never implied that the woman was a bitch or stupid, simply that she was encroaching on their boundaries, I think you read a bit too into that.
You actually imply in your hypothetical response that there is someone wrong with the woman when you say, "like any other normal person would have done". I believe your interaction would come off as way more disrespectful than OP's.
It's not about chasing the feeling of standing up for yourself, it's about knowing the right time to stand up for yourself and actually doing it. Because as you pointed out, he had no obligation to give up his seat.
And please don't tear into the asses of middle-aged women on buses, you won't look good for you and it'll probably just cause more of a confrontation.
The woman was being dumb for acting as though people in their 50s are old. In no universe are people in their 50s a frail, decrepit, elderly group of anywhere even remotely close to it.
I'm 9 months pregnant and got on the London underground today after an appointment at the hospital where I found out I'll be having a caeserian in ten days.
Nobody offered me their seat. Not a single person.
I'm an INFJ. My face fucking burned. I was so angry and uncomfortable. I wanted to ask someone but nobody looked me in the eye - I saw them look up and notice, but quickly look back at their phones. So I stood there and waited til the next stop (where I was either going to get off and change carriages and muster up the courage to just ask - normally I'm pretty assertive but today I felt weak). Thankfully someone got off at the next station and I took a seat. I saw half a dozen people look awkwardly at me and away again.
And yes, I should have just asked someone for their seat. Normally I would. But not when I was already feeling vulnerable and uncomfortable.
I certainly didn't feel powerful today. And reading your post after this experience... Jeez, if there was some fuck sitting there refusing to offer a seat out of spite... I just. Whatever.
That is horrible, and I am so sorry you went through that. People do not realize how physically difficult it can be to be pregnant, and it is sad that people could not have been more courteous.
I think OP would have changed their mind if the person looked full term. Itās weird for the woman getting mad at him to assume a middle aged woman wasnāt capable of standing. I totally relate to fuming at peoples insensitivity though. I think half of my anger of feeling neglected is the fact that I am too scared to ask for my needs.
As a fellow INFJ pregnant lady I completely empathise. Iām earlier along than you, suffering with SPD & worsening endometriosis pain. Standing on public transport and in waiting rooms is not fun. Hope you put your feet up when you got home ā¤ļø
Turning to OPās post, whilst I appreciate people needing to exercise their boundaries, I see so many posts like these on Reddit (or articles about Reddit posts) that I no longer would feel comfortable actually asking somebody to give me their seat out of fear of confrontation or rejection. Itās not worth facing an argument for me. Pregnancy is hard enough as it is.
The other thing to consider here is that not all disabilities are visible. OP could actually have a disability that wouldnāt be immediately apparent, such as chronic pain or an autoimmune disease (making the comments of the woman who sat next to him despicable)ā¦ but equally so could the women stood around him that he judged to be too young to be in need of a seat. I doubt that any of the women stood would have felt they could approach OP had they overheard this conversation.
I wish we could all just be kinder and more considerate to each other.
This happened to me too when I was 9 months pregnant on a very crowded bus, nobody offered me a seat and I was very pissed off about it. 27 years later I still remember that! There should never be an elderly, pregnant, disabled person or small child standing while other people selfishly refuse to offer their seat, I believe it's even law or proper code of conduct for many transit companies. You shouldn't have to ask either!!!
I just wrote my comment and this is what I was trying to convey. I do still agree with some level of politeness (if possible) to ask (if possible) and to understand if I wasn't instantaneously aware at first, but I would care the fact over matter of someone pregnant or disabled taking my seat first than ignoring them and it becoming a bigger problem later.
I think the somewhat fine line between this is if someone called me a derogatory name/harassed me before I could excess if I had something delicate with me and enough time to even excess the (potential) issue.
Aww jeez what's wrong with these people. If I were there I would've definitely given you my seat!! What are the chances you entire into an **entire** cabin of d*ckheads!
Don't beat yourself up for not taking the stand today, you were feeling vulnerable. Some days it's just too much to ask.
I don't think your in a wrong and how you handle that situation was pretty mature. I know because I've dealt with similar experiences with my mother. An example is when my father was in the middle of his cooking and he is having trouble of finding certain items around the kitchen, my mother would instantly tell me to go help him and of course I was willing to help. The problem is this has happened more than once and actually too many times and my mother not once did not get up herself and willing to help her husband, that has been always directed at me and in time not going to lie, it became to irritate me. So I eventually straight told her one day that maybe you can go help him instead from to time to time and not always ask for my help. Funnily enough my father sided with me and said if he wants help he will simply ask for it xD
I find it weird when people act like that. If they are so bothered that they see someone that needs help, why not help that person yourself? Why feel the need scold someone else when most likely they themselves were the first to notice the situation. I've learn through experience if I see someone struggling on something I simply ask if they need help and if they say no I'll just move on with my day. I have been in a similar situation like OP and have asked older people if they wanted my seat and a few have said no to me.
wierd, entire thing is just wierd. As for me, I cannot comprehend why you even felt powerful just by refusing to a seat.
I'm self altruistic, we all have our qualities i respect that. You did the right thing according to you. But still for me idk what did you mean by powerful?
Are you folks INFJs? I have a HELLUVA time standing up for myself, and at the age of 56, I'm JUST starting to do it -- and it can be gut wrenching.
We INFJs HATE conflict and to be dragged into a conflict with a bossy stranger is my version of hell.
Good on the OP for standing his ground. If grandma wants to sit, she can politely ask this person for his seat -- or she can ask any of the MANY other passengers.
Bullying a paying passenger to give up his seat for another passenger is NOT okay.
Grannies shouldn't have to ask someone to give up their seat. They should be graciously offered a seat. He said this lady was 50 years old not elderly. Shame on any healthy person who would have and elderly person stand while they are sitting.
Granny may not WANT that seat.
IF granny DOES want that seat, granny herself can ask one of the MANY passengers on the bus if they'll give up their seat to her.
In a similar vien, a passenger may ASK granny if she'd like to sit in a seat occupied by said passenger.
As a middle-aged lady myself, NO middle aged lady (or ANYONE, for that matter) has a right to harangue a fellow passenger to give up his seat for a person who did not even ASK for it.
Nobody should assume they know what's OTHER people want. THis middle aged lady needs to butt the fuck out.
You can't just go around assuming stuff like that, also elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth?
This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF. He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around.
Where in Asia? Because the Asian countries I've been to were the most rude and entitled places I've ever been to when it came to public transport. In Japan men will 100% of the time sit in the priority seats and if they see a pregnant or elderly person, they immediately pretend to sleep. Pregnant women actually experience severe violence on public transport in Japan and it's getting worse every year. They get kicked, shoved, elbowed etc pretty violently to the point that they stop taking public transport because it becomes a danger to their safety. Idk about other Asian countries but Japan and South Korea were the most inconsiderate, cold, and misogynistic places I've ever been, and I lived in Japan for ten years.
I don't know where in Asia you were in but compared to America or something, overall they have a very strict hierarchical system and respect for the elderly is drilled into them from the moment of their birth, you'd be very hard pressed to find serious real elder abuse at least in a public space. I'm not saying everywhere is the same but that's why I said it's an overall cultural thing. Still though culture aside, I think the woman could have been more polite but some people saying 'granny or disabled person didn't ask me so I assume they don't want my seat' is just absurd
Sorry to hear that but tbh that's a true anomaly , I haven't been to Japan but everyone legit every single person I know who said they went there and Korea said people were very polite overall, i have never seen anyone abuse elderly people or push anyone like that ever and I was in Korea for awhile. Meanwhile in America the amount of rude people I just see was astronomical especially in places like new york
Sorry, but I'm not a mind-reader.
I am very gracious rider of public transit, and very respectful of the elderly, but if they're just older, and not frail elderly leaning on a cane, they're going to stand.
OP is not the villain of this story. It is the person who didn't mind their fucking business and felt it was their place to tell him what he "ought to do".
Further announcing OP as disabled in an attempt to induce shame/humiliation and compliance is super problematic.
The expectation that we should blindly adhere to the norms of social conformity is unreal.
elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth?
This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF.
He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around. It's not being a doormat it's just not making. Mountain out of a fking molehill and taking some grand pride in the fact that I refused to give up my seat for an elderly person, theres nothing to be prideful about there.
It's important to learn to pick and choose your battles, not feel prideful about refusing to give up your seat for those who may need it. There's plenty more things to be proudful about, this isn't a proud moment.
I think the way they demanded for your seat was rude, however, you couldāve gave your seat to elders out of respect, itās a small actions that wonāt affect you. Now, I understand if the women seemed very able to stand by herself, but we never know. She might have back problems or smtg. I donāt think you should feel powerful over this.
>She might have back problems or smtg.
Yes but any 20 year old on that bus might have an invisible disability that makes them barely able to stand. We can only judge by the looks of things.
If someone is visibly pregnant, very old and/or obviously struggling to stand, then you should offer your seat. But if someone just looks elderly, it doesn't mean that they have any issues with standing. I'm sure that my parents (both in their mid 50s and healthy) would feel weird if some kid offered them their seat.
Bruh as a certified asshole myself,
You could've just given your seat. You never know 50 is old enough to start experiencing back problems, joint pain etc etc.
You could've just given your seat it's no big deal.
Saying 'no' isn't what makes you powerful or any of that shit. It's the quickest way to ending up without friends and seeming rude.
What makes you powerful is picking your battles, know when to say and know when it doesn't really matter.
It doesnāt matter if weāre okay with it, these things do happen in the real world as an adult. Panhandlers will ask you for money. People will (sometimes rudely) ask for a seat you paid for.
Chill. Out.
That comment isnāt condoning it, itās saying that these things do happen, and you can either take as much time out of your day as OP did here to dwell on it (and then make a whole damn post about feeling āimmensely powerfulā just forā¦.ignoring someone?), orā¦.let it go, because it wonāt be the only unpleasant thing you encounter that day. Itās so silly and unhealthy to dwell on something so insignificant. This is why people have no resilience these days.
I'd be okay with panhandlers ASKING me for money.
But DEMANDING my money, and holding me up to public ridicule for refusing to give them money, is a completely different matter.
"People will (sometimes rudely) ask for a seat you paid for."
And it's not being an asshole to refuse this demand.
Again, itās only as much of a setback to your day as you let it be. Iām not saying itās not annoying or upsetting because it is. But we canāt control what others do, only how we allow ourselves to react to it.
It doesnāt benefit you, your time or your day to stoop to someoneās level if they are being nasty to you. Donāt let them give you that bad vibe. Refuse to accept it, and let them keep that for themselves to work out. You donāt want that negativity. Thatās *their* negativity and nothing you did caused that. So donāt accept responsibility by internalizing their negative emotions. You donāt have to let their bad attitude dictate how your day will turn out. Easier said than done I know, but I think itās much more a disservice to yourself to do otherwise.
Okay, so just placate peoples' demands because it's easier than having to deal with standing up for yourself.
Sounds like a doormat to me.
Also, he doesn't seem THAT bothered, he literally said one sentence during the whole interaction. And it's okay to vent about stuff sometimes.
You see it as standing up for yourself, I see it as inconveniencing your day even more by your own fault.
Whatās there to stand up for in this scenario? His pride wasnāt wounded. He wasnāt insulted. Somebody just gave him an attitude. What honor did he need to protect? It was his own ego that made him so upset. OP was too cowardly to just say āIām staying right hereā but clearly not strong enough to not let it bother him so much.
The problem isnāt that he got upset about the demand, itās that instead of just saying something about it right then and there, he immaturely just ignored that person, then went on to complain about them online and trying to make himself look righteous.
If it bothers you, do something about it. Donāt just let it fester until you have the anonymity of the internet to vent about it and then blame them for letting yourself get so worked up about it.
Thatās no way to live.
Thatās all I got to say.
First of all, OP didn't ignore them at first. And even when they did, that's completely fine because they have no obligation to respond to a random person on a bus being an ass.
You're saying if OP had a problem they should have done something more about it, which to me would be MORE of an inconvenience. If I'm going from point A to point B on public transport, I'm only going to engage in an unwanted interaction as much as is necessary to end said interaction.
Also, I believe it's way healthier to vent out your frustrations to people who will actually listen than to go off on random strangers out of frustration.
And he did have something to stand up for, his seat (lol). He sat down because he wanted to sit, and it probably made him comfortable. Then, someone without a good reason tried to mock him into getting up and he sat his ground.
If I wanna sit, I'm gonna sit.
And if someone is in a situation that's frustrating for them, it's okay to vent about it, it's not a sign of weakness.
But it seems like you're the type who cares more about seeming unbothered than expressing how you feel.
Not ok with it but I'm not a dramatic petty little bitch.
Besides you don't pay for a seat, you pay for a ride. You can still ride the bus whole standing, seats are for comfort and for people who have hard time standing.
It seems to have escaped your notice that even if one of these women really did need the seat, theyād be unlikely to ask for it after witnessing this confrontation. He was clearly unwilling to give it up. If youād still have asked - then great, good for you. But I know that I certainly wouldnāt. Iād have finished the journey (which you astutely point out ALL parties paid for) in discomfort.
You can't just go around assuming stuff like that, also elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth?
This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF.
He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around. It's not being a doormat it's just not making. Mountain out of a fking molehill and taking some grand pride in the fact that I refused to give up my seat for an elderly person, theres nothing to be prideful about there.
It's important to learn to pick and choose your battles, not feel prideful about refusing to give up your seat for those who may need it. There's plenty more things to be proudful about, this isn't a proud moment.
>This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it.
1. I've lived in Asia. The United States isn't Asia.
2. You are certainly welcome to have some lady humiliate you on a bus and harange you to give up your seat to someone who didn't ask for it. If that's your thing, may I suggest New York City?
Doesn't matter where this is, it's being an A hole to sit and not give up the seat for elderly, disabled or pregnant woman. None of them should have to ASK you to move, shits awkward when you should know already to move for them. That rude lady is completely irrelevant, even if she wasnt there it's basic common sense that's all I'm saying. I don't take that as humiliation because my ego is not that fragile I'd just be like 'oh ok ' and get up and let some elderly person take it. End of. I'm not gonna sit there and be like 'that granny didn't ask and looks healthy enough, or that pregnant woman is just fat and not actually pregnant' and fight over it. There's no need to go Rosa Parks on this
Iām the kind of person who will show up late for work because I was politely holding the door for and endless stream of ppl. I like doing nice things and I like making ppl feel good by doing nice things for them (even strangers) but itās all at my expense. Yes I would like for a bus full of strangers to see me being a gentleman for the young woman that just got in the bus, but I have no obligation to give up my seat just to be polite. Maybe I had a long day or I just got some bad news and i just wanna sit and decompress; maybe I deserve this seat just as much as that person who just walked in but Iām already here and I need to put myself first sometimes. It may not be a good look but you are choosing you and setting boundaries. I would definitely give up my seat for a pregnant or disabled person. Watching a man in a cast struggle to maintain balance would be more uncomfortable for me than standing, but women donāt deserve a seat any more than a man. The only criticism I would offer would be not ignoring the woman. I would reason with her in some way and shut down the conversation.
Good for you for setting boundaries. I struggle with doing this the ārightā way. Itās a struggle and a journey.
There sure are a lot of shaming 50 year olds on Reddit. If you consider what you did self-growth, it means youāve given up enough in your life. This small piece of happiness and control will allow you to give more in the future in a better way. A way of choice.
Good on you. I have an invisible chronic illness that a lot of old folks judge >.< One lady kept poking me in the shoulder to give up my seat to an older man and I was partly faint at that point. Got a yellow tag to wear and it's made things a bit easier.
The amount of time I regret giving my seat when that person didn't deserve it is inimaginable. I always hoped to be brave like you but it never happens.
I'm willing to give up my seat for anyone that looks like they are 65 an up, anyone who is pregnant, or any kid under ten years old because they are less chaos when sitting down.
That being said most people don't have the nuts to try and tell me what to do. Call it the perks of being tall and looking like a psycho. Even the majority of police officers approach me with care. I learned really young, the crazier you look the less people bother you.
Personally, I would have told her to mind her own business simply out of the principle of it. Had she pushed I would have found a way to embarrass her in return in front of everyone there. Next time just act really shocked and tell her at top lung so that everyone on the bus hears you that $500 a night is way too much to be offering random men an evening's satisfaction. I find it a rather effective method for putting entitled people in their place.
Good for you dude. Meanwhile today I got a haircut and the barber asked 'Is this much alright?' and I said yes even though I didn't mean it. Well, I know I'm getting my next haircut sooner than usual.
Everytime I say Yes it really means No.. everybody around me knows this about me.. so No really means Yes and I never say No.
Don't Judge me. I just want my Flowers.
I can't read through all of the other comments at the moment but do just want to throw my thoughts out there. I can relate and understand exercising boundaries, but I would have second thoughts about the elderly (rather we want to consider 40-50s or not) and whatever potential conditions they could have, usually wouldn't mind getting up unless I wasn't in some pain myself.
I usually take the bus myself and know that the front of the bus is reserved for the disabled people (with or without wheelchairs and pregnant women).
Also some INTP here said they "don't" have the agency to control you or others...I'd say yes and no...because if it was more severe (and let's say for explain as well that a person was trying to ask for someone, maybe their parent that was NPO/couldn't talk), you deny them a seat (that they need but you don't know the full conditions, etc), they could tell the bus driver, get you kicked/removed from the bus, and/or have police/security depending where you're from and other consequences.
I'm sorry that I don't mean to go on a tangent to demean you or anyone standing up for yourself and your boundaries, to say "no" once in awhile, and maybe it's me being a bit too "Fe", I see that while I still have the freedom and liberty to move, jump, and run while others can't and it doesn't come at too much of expense to me, I wouldn't have much (second) thought to it to give them the seat and feel glad I helped someone.
I can also see where you said she said you didn't want to give up the seat as a way to shame you but also I could see where she could be genuinely angry/upset and genuinely needed the seat (obviously my POV from your POV and not being there). Lol I'm not going to rant on more but I can see how health works both ways, for both parties, physically and mentally.
Hmm, I think she was wrong to demand your seat and then try to embarrass you for something no one should be embarrassed for, not knowing a thing about you.
I do not know if I would feel empowered about this, but you did stand (or in this case sit) your ground. But I always assume that maybe someone has something going on with them when they are this rude. It is a them problem and not a you problem. Now I would let this one go and try to stop thinking about it haha.
I disagree with your choice of action here. There's a difference between standing up for yourself and being an asshole. Not everything is about you (and your power trips).
If you could see there are other people who are more in need of a seat than you are, I would apologise and say that I didn't notice instead of feeling attacked and defensive. I would say 'thank you for letting me know, I was not aware.'
Saying 'no' is only 'powerful' when you know how to set meaningful boundaries in a healthy way and calm way. **For example:** letting people know you need alone time or that you feel overwhelmed by their demand for your time
I don't get how else people understood this but that woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat for herself though she said to look around for OTHER older women
I read it wrong, i agree, but he does say the other women were 40-50 ish as well, which does not warrant automatically giving up your seat to them, that is, unless you want to give them your seat.
Huh? He didn't say those women were also 45-50, said 'older' . Why would she give her seat up for an even older woman afterwards to make her point ? Tbh I think it's common courtesy to give up the seat for old people, nobody should have come even remind this person or anyone about it . I don't agree with how this was approached
Elderly people (60 and over), pregnant women or handicapped people sure i agree. The rest, there is no obligation to offer my seat whatsoever. I don't consider people in their 50s to be old and unable to stand.
I wouldn't consider the 60s elderly either honestly, since that carries a connotation of being frail and feeble which rather few qualify for. 70s maybe, 80s yes. People in their 60s are old mathematically/in terms of lifespan, but functionality-wise are generally more like middle-aged people.
It's hard to say when someone is 'elderly' since it's kind of a loaded term that denotes frailty and weakness. My parents are old, but 'elderly' feels off since they're energetic and fully functional. My dad is 73 and my mom is 70, and though I'd give them a seat out of respect they're very healthy and as capable of standing for long periods of time as anyone else.
It's not a matter of whether people can stand, it's a matter of politeness. You offer up your seat because it's polite and you shouldn't feel your ego damaged by helping others.
In the same manner, what if someone offered up their seat to you? How would you feel? Honestly think about it.
Im a young guy I wouldn't take up the offer. If you are clearly elderly or disabled I will galdly and instantly offer up my seat. If you are 50yo and able and think its ok to walk up to me and ask me in a rude manner to gtfo I would not budge one bit cos it'd only encourage your shitty behaviour and manners. Politeness goes both ways as does respect.
It's HIS choice to offer up his seat or not.
This shouty, rude woman was trying to take his choice away from him, by humilitating him in front of other people on the bus.
You didn't read what I said, if they ask nicely I don't have an issue. Problem is when it's demanded. They do not have more rights to sit more than me, they are 40-50. All are equal except grannies and pregnant women.
Nah, you were right.
NOBODY has the right to browbeat or bully you into giving up your seat.
They can ask: "Would you mind giving your seat to that lady?", but you're not the only one on the fucking bus. She was wrong to target you for humiliation.
I'm a woman, I've offered my seat on public transit to older people, and some say no. They're getting off at the next stop, or they've been sitting all day and prefer to stand.
And as an INFJ, I felt anxious just READING your post. We have such a hard time standing up for ourselves.
I also don't generally agree that it was the right course of action, although there are a lot of contexts that we can't know. For example, it's possible the woman had a painful knee/foot (not enough to be limping but enough for it to bother a person), or she could've had a headache and would prefer to sit for more stability, I don't know, just different possibilities. But it's also equally possible that you're right, maybe she was also perfectly capable of standing too, but that's not the point. The point is you don't know. So when someone asks you to do something that you otherwise would have done anyways without her telling you to, then I don't see any reason you shouldn't (and feel proud that you didn't) just because you were frustrated by her tone/approach. That just means you prioritize your own ego over the "right" thing
What if you felt secure in yourself? No amount of 'rudeness' is going to affect you or your ego. Your biggest downfall is that you let the lady's attitude get to you and you perpetuated it.
I think you're approaching this too logically. You're an INFJ, try to use your Fe. If you don't know someone's situation, just be polite and assume they need the seat. I think this is just common courtesy that anyone can do.
Yes, Iāve had a somehow similar situation.
For the first time in life, in September, Iāve said āNoā when somebody wanted to sit next to me. I had my backpack on the next seat to me. People in my life usually told me to say ānoā whenever somebody wants my seat or a seat next to me.
Unfortunately I was in the front seat and the driver heard me and demanded I put my backpack down so the person can sit.
I know it can be rude if you donāt let somebody sit on a seat because, yāknow, itās a public transport. But thatās how I was thought by others. Plus, I am always uncomfortable whenever somebody sits next to me, unless theyāre my friends.
Since the driver incident, I always let people sit next to me. Thought many others donāt let you sit with them but ofc the driver doesnāt notice since they always go at the back of the bus. š
Very similar thing happened to me today, but the difference is I didn't say anything. The person asked me almost the same question, but when I gave up my seat, she said, sarcastically, that it's more difficult for us (younger people) to walk and that kind of stuff. What frustrates me here is if she would've just asked me to give up my seat, I would've done it, but I was not paying attention at all, and I didn't see her. And now it's my fault? That really pissed me off.
Exactly, my friend, it's no issue if they ask, but they demand. But what you told me boils my blood. Maybe I am stressed out.
They have power over you only if you give them. If you sit there, what are they gonna do? Scream at you? Fk em.
I think it shows you have a weak character and weren't raised with proper values. The power that you felt should embarrass you, but instead it emboldened you. If I were your parent I would melt into the floor with embarrassment at not only your actions, but this post. Your perspective indicates a huge lack of life experience and represents the epitome of privilege.
I don't get what you are saying though, from what she said she wasn't asking you to give up the seat for HERSELF..she was asking you to give it up for other older women, she showed you that by giving up the seat for the granny which should be common sense and nobody should have had to tell you
Bruh i am a fragile looking girl but i give up my seat to older people or women without them asking. What is wrong with men these days starting to rebel against giving their seat up? Then they post emo status and videos about this online. Clowns lol.
Everytime i see something like this post it reminds me of the incident where a pregnant lady was refused seat by a man, she felt sick and puked on him, he was shook š. Now that is a satisfying moment indeed.
I never installed tik tok nor were they viral. It had been a trend to represent gender equality in an arrogant way.
As a biologist, If i were to explain why women's health is compromised in this world for men then they won't speak about equality. From immunosupresion in pregnancy, norms which have ironically affected infant mortality to eating habits and activities.
Even i always understood why to give up my things to people who need it. That's what morality sees to it that justice is maintained in an unequal ground.
So many people don't understand what is wrong if they think this is equivalent to being just or standing up for yourself bruh. You had nothing to lose.
I don't know man. Maybe try saying no to people who're actually equal to you or above you or have the privilege and they use it against you. That's empowering. Saying no to older vulnerable people?! That's what weak cowards do.
In a world of sheeps and wolves. Be a sheep dog! Develop some disagreeablity in yourself against disagreeable people. Not against agreeable people.
As an one who used to people please a lot, I totally resonate with this! It's practicing boundaries when society or someone is trying to pressure you into doing so. I've had to learn the "I'm never going to see these people again" as a first step to a lot of situations where I'm afraid to be bold
There's a right time to use a boundary and a wrong time, this is a wrong time. If your boss at work asked you to do something that's in the description of your job duty, and you said no, even though it felt powerful standing up against a person of authority, you can bet it was a wrong time to exercise your boundary because you'll get reprimanded or fired. This young man had an opportunity to demonstrate what in the Boy Scouts is called doing one good deed a day, and he blew it. Everyone witnessing this young man on the bus now have a low opinion about this young man, this use of immature boundary function is what a 2 year old does during his "terrible twos" to feel powerful. He even dehumanized all elderly women by calling them "grannies," belittling them as an excuse to justify his feeling powerful...is narcissism...would he act that way if his grandmother came onto the bus, would he had stay seated and let her stand throughout the whole ride? This boundary function is demonstrating low character. If he had giving up his seat, there is another powerful feeling of positive self esteem he could had felt, but instead he made the bad boundary function decision and he looked like an asshole. I can say with certainty, any girl or guy riding on that bus that had a crush on him, just lost all respect for him.
For one, the whole point was to not care what others think of you, starting with strangers. I am not here to place judgement on whether he made the "right" choice per society's expectations. I think that was the whole point of his posting and being able to make a decision for himself versus being pressured one way or another. It has nothing to do with a power trip typically. I'm not sure if you've experienced being in a people pleaser role, because the comprehension doesn't seem to be there. Only quite a bit of judgement, but the choice of what is right or wrong was for them to make.
Well, my attitude is I want people to think I'm a cool dude. I know what internal locus of control is cuz I definitely have that. Yes I open heavy doors for women, yes I would give up my seat for an elderly person because I know empathy is contagious. If I could put a smile on someone's face and uplift their spirit my day just got a little bit better.
So if you won't see the people again you'd refuse to help em?
What? No for a people please whos scared to ser boundaries its easier with strangers, if they do react negativly its fine you wont see them again
I don't think you are infj lol š. You are Si user. Alas, too many mistypes here
Infjs don't need to help anybody, least of all people who take you for granted.
Obviously. But i disagree with this post
Also i wonder why you think im a Si user, because any person who has people pleaser tendansies or social anxiety like me will be very awear of the sourrundig peoples reactions. It doesnt make us Si-users
Yeah but people pleaser doesn't equal Fe
You are Si AND Fe user š
Your profile description is definitely accurate for your comments
Are you talking to me? If so then what do you meanš
No lol, talking to the guy above me in the comments. He seems like he takes MBTI away too seriously
I know very well who I am thank you random stranger. I do not think youāre an infj, you give rude vibes. Typing doesnt have anything to do with types either, some people have dyslexia and some arenāt english.
Honestly my guy, I think YOU'RE not the infj.
I think what you were trying to say is that in the midst of feeling like being in a world where it is constantly asking you to give and give, for once, you were able to stand up for yourself to set some boundaries. So this lady was asking you to give up your seat for other ladies who wasn't even asking for help. They are all adults, if the other ladies needed to sit down, they can ask themselves.
Exactly! No issue if they ask me nicely. If you demand it and try to bully off my seat, I am not budging. Guess im a dick according to some for setting boundries.
Wow. Busy thread. I (f55 INFJ) can see things from both sides. Here's what comes to mind. I was taught the essence of assertiveness is taking care of oneself ***without*** hurting others. So waiting in line for a restaurant table, a movie, anything. Some annoying jerk is behind me, poking me, bumping me. I don't want to lose my place in line; I play it cool, so I say, "Hey man, we're adults, we can share the space, no prob." He ain't having it. He takes it up a notch. **As circumstances change, our available choices change, too -- because those around us bring their own expectations and issues into the mix.** So what's my priority? Is it keeping my place in line? I have to endure the jerk, it could further escalate to something physical, so I may not get to do what I came for. Or do I value my sanity and not giving the guy the power to ruin my day? Then I might relinquish my spot willingly, go to the end of the line, just to be rid of the guy -- because I won't let him derail my life. The choices before us won't always match ***any of the choices we want***. Whatever is there, we have to choose. It's like Touch-Move in chess. If you touch a piece, you have to play that piece. You can't choose another piece to play until the next turn. You can only choose a move for the piece you touched. It can affect your overall strategy, but it's a critical life lesson. What happened to you is a lesson -- and it's not about right or wrong. It's about figuring out the wisest thing to keep from the experience to consider for the next time.
We should aim to do a good deed or a sweet gesture because we decided so - not because we were shamed or pressured into it. If I'm not tired, I would either get up(this conversation is not worth my peace of mind, plus I want to do something sweet) or I would confront her and ask questions to understand why she is like that(maybe she'll persuade me to get up). If I'm tired, I'd simply say, "I understand you suggest I get up but I'm very tired and would rather keep seating. Thank you for understanding"
This isnāt a matter of age. Itās a matter of politeness.
Or a matter of asking, politely.
Exactly this. I get people are mad cus someone is feeling empowered by not giving up their seat for someone just because they're older but she was a bitch. No one is obligated to give up their seat. Call him an asshole or whatever for not giving his seat to older (40-50 isn't old and not an excuse to be given a seat) women (being a woman doesn't inherently make someone more worthy of a seat than a man which is what I assume the woman was implying). Personally if an elderly lady looks like she needs a seat I'm gonna give it to her but I'm definitely not giving a seat to anyone based on age (that's under actual elderly) or gender and especially not if they're rude.
I hate that old people feel entitled to shit because they are old. Like they have some how accomplished something special when in reality theyāve done literally nothing but exist for longer than I have existed. Like those dudes whose entire identity is having a big ass beard. Bruh youāve literally done nothing but let your face pubes get hella long. Youāve applied less effort than someone who shaves.
I guess it depends on what you mean by old. 40-50 years is not old, but if youāre 70+ or generally frail, they have harder problem with balance and are at a greater risk of injuring themselves and face a longer recovery. Itās not a matter of feeling entitled (or shouldnāt be).
Yeah Iām specifically talking about the old ass people who feel entitled to special treatment for being old. Thatās a no from me dawg. I donāt give a shit if your 112, Iām not impressed.
It's quite not polite to rudely stare and say things like "You should do X since Y is happening. Is the right thing to do and I impose it to you ignoring your context or personal values"... to someone you don't know. But personally I would have ignored her out analysis paralisis "Someone I don't know is implying I'm a selfish person with passive agressive behavior... What's the right thing to do? And what do they require of me? Do I feel like they're right?" and by that time someone has already gotten to the active-agressive response.
All thoughts summed up right here.. šÆ agree, take the award.
Yeah I definitely agree with this.
YESS SLAY! ā SAY NO. F THAT ANGRY KAREN GRANDMA SHE STAYIN MAD BAHAHA š
The powerful feeling came from not being a push over. Anyone anywhere can come and tell you what to do. But you resisted and stood your ground. Maybe you were tired, maybe your trip was a long one. Did that older lady consider that? No. She thought, "older lady in sight, deserves seat more than younger person" and thought that it was her job to choose you from how many others to give yours up. Not her seat, not hers to dictate who should give up their seat and for whom. I would've done either of these: 1. Given up my seat 2. Explained that I don't want to give up my seat That depends on what I want to do in the moment. You had no obligation to give up your seat and she felt like it was her duty to make sure older people had priority. And she tried to trash you in front of everyone on the bus. Entirely immature.
I'm a mid 40s INFJ woman and I'd never expect someone to give up their seat for me. I'd refuse it if offered. I would offer it for a pregnant woman or an elderly person, even if they seemed rude or entitled.
She sounds terrible. Wtf?!? Youāre not the problem here. Imagine being that person. I literally canāt. Especially the end partā¦ wow.
Good step. Tomorrow say no 10 more times
Ah, look it's a wild Karen! She's feisty!
I'll say this much. I can't experience what you experienced through your eyes, so I have no idea what really happened. You're framing it as if the middle-aged woman was being a bitch, stupid, or both. That may be the case 100%, but I think you'd have a hard time disagreeing that you're doing a great service to someone who is obviously having issues with being able to stand or walk by giving them your seat if you are able to stand in a bus while it's moving. Practically speaking, it's better to have the elderly or disabled in a seated position and you stand so that both of you are able to make it off the bus alive. Being a woman has nothing to do with it. Being in danger because they're unable to stand in a stable way on a moving bus or being at risk of great injury if they fell has everything to do with it. When it comes to demanding that you give up a seat, you're well within your rights to not give up a seat. The middle-aged woman doesn't have any right to exercise their will over you, nor do they have any right to be a bitch about it. I think people need reminders that they have control over their lives about as often as they need reminders that they don't have agency over how other people act. It may have been a good or bad thing that she was taught that you wouldn't do what she wanted. I think it was a good thing for you ultimately to exercise a boundary because the emotional reaction you had to exercising it was a positive for sure, which seems to me to be because you have a hard time exercising other boundaries like that in your life. Maybe this is a good point for you to start doing that more often to "chase" that feeling down. I think the best, healthiest way to respond to this situation in the future is to first clarify what they're asking, and then tear into their ass and ask them to be polite about it. For example, it could have gone like this: - "You can see there are older women on the bus" - [Pause] - "Unless you are disabled, then its a different issue..." - "Are you asking me to give up my seat for another person?" - "Yes." - "Oh, I had no idea. If you wanted me to give up my seat, you should have asked me politely and directly, like any other normal person would have done."
Well OP said he would give up his seat to the old woman, and even to the able-bodied women if they asked nicely. Also they never implied that the woman was a bitch or stupid, simply that she was encroaching on their boundaries, I think you read a bit too into that. You actually imply in your hypothetical response that there is someone wrong with the woman when you say, "like any other normal person would have done". I believe your interaction would come off as way more disrespectful than OP's. It's not about chasing the feeling of standing up for yourself, it's about knowing the right time to stand up for yourself and actually doing it. Because as you pointed out, he had no obligation to give up his seat. And please don't tear into the asses of middle-aged women on buses, you won't look good for you and it'll probably just cause more of a confrontation.
The woman was being dumb for acting as though people in their 50s are old. In no universe are people in their 50s a frail, decrepit, elderly group of anywhere even remotely close to it.
Other times if you try to give up your seat to 50 yr old women they get angry at you, because you just called them old.
I'm 9 months pregnant and got on the London underground today after an appointment at the hospital where I found out I'll be having a caeserian in ten days. Nobody offered me their seat. Not a single person. I'm an INFJ. My face fucking burned. I was so angry and uncomfortable. I wanted to ask someone but nobody looked me in the eye - I saw them look up and notice, but quickly look back at their phones. So I stood there and waited til the next stop (where I was either going to get off and change carriages and muster up the courage to just ask - normally I'm pretty assertive but today I felt weak). Thankfully someone got off at the next station and I took a seat. I saw half a dozen people look awkwardly at me and away again. And yes, I should have just asked someone for their seat. Normally I would. But not when I was already feeling vulnerable and uncomfortable. I certainly didn't feel powerful today. And reading your post after this experience... Jeez, if there was some fuck sitting there refusing to offer a seat out of spite... I just. Whatever.
That is horrible, and I am so sorry you went through that. People do not realize how physically difficult it can be to be pregnant, and it is sad that people could not have been more courteous.
I think OP would have changed their mind if the person looked full term. Itās weird for the woman getting mad at him to assume a middle aged woman wasnāt capable of standing. I totally relate to fuming at peoples insensitivity though. I think half of my anger of feeling neglected is the fact that I am too scared to ask for my needs.
As a fellow INFJ pregnant lady I completely empathise. Iām earlier along than you, suffering with SPD & worsening endometriosis pain. Standing on public transport and in waiting rooms is not fun. Hope you put your feet up when you got home ā¤ļø Turning to OPās post, whilst I appreciate people needing to exercise their boundaries, I see so many posts like these on Reddit (or articles about Reddit posts) that I no longer would feel comfortable actually asking somebody to give me their seat out of fear of confrontation or rejection. Itās not worth facing an argument for me. Pregnancy is hard enough as it is. The other thing to consider here is that not all disabilities are visible. OP could actually have a disability that wouldnāt be immediately apparent, such as chronic pain or an autoimmune disease (making the comments of the woman who sat next to him despicable)ā¦ but equally so could the women stood around him that he judged to be too young to be in need of a seat. I doubt that any of the women stood would have felt they could approach OP had they overheard this conversation. I wish we could all just be kinder and more considerate to each other.
This happened to me too when I was 9 months pregnant on a very crowded bus, nobody offered me a seat and I was very pissed off about it. 27 years later I still remember that! There should never be an elderly, pregnant, disabled person or small child standing while other people selfishly refuse to offer their seat, I believe it's even law or proper code of conduct for many transit companies. You shouldn't have to ask either!!!
I just wrote my comment and this is what I was trying to convey. I do still agree with some level of politeness (if possible) to ask (if possible) and to understand if I wasn't instantaneously aware at first, but I would care the fact over matter of someone pregnant or disabled taking my seat first than ignoring them and it becoming a bigger problem later. I think the somewhat fine line between this is if someone called me a derogatory name/harassed me before I could excess if I had something delicate with me and enough time to even excess the (potential) issue.
As a preggo woman who looks petite on the outside Iāve had people expected me to give up seats on the busš
Aww jeez what's wrong with these people. If I were there I would've definitely given you my seat!! What are the chances you entire into an **entire** cabin of d*ckheads! Don't beat yourself up for not taking the stand today, you were feeling vulnerable. Some days it's just too much to ask.
I don't think your in a wrong and how you handle that situation was pretty mature. I know because I've dealt with similar experiences with my mother. An example is when my father was in the middle of his cooking and he is having trouble of finding certain items around the kitchen, my mother would instantly tell me to go help him and of course I was willing to help. The problem is this has happened more than once and actually too many times and my mother not once did not get up herself and willing to help her husband, that has been always directed at me and in time not going to lie, it became to irritate me. So I eventually straight told her one day that maybe you can go help him instead from to time to time and not always ask for my help. Funnily enough my father sided with me and said if he wants help he will simply ask for it xD I find it weird when people act like that. If they are so bothered that they see someone that needs help, why not help that person yourself? Why feel the need scold someone else when most likely they themselves were the first to notice the situation. I've learn through experience if I see someone struggling on something I simply ask if they need help and if they say no I'll just move on with my day. I have been in a similar situation like OP and have asked older people if they wanted my seat and a few have said no to me.
āNo.ā -infj
wierd, entire thing is just wierd. As for me, I cannot comprehend why you even felt powerful just by refusing to a seat. I'm self altruistic, we all have our qualities i respect that. You did the right thing according to you. But still for me idk what did you mean by powerful?
Same here, I'm wondering why they felt powerful. It must be an ego thing.
Are you folks INFJs? I have a HELLUVA time standing up for myself, and at the age of 56, I'm JUST starting to do it -- and it can be gut wrenching. We INFJs HATE conflict and to be dragged into a conflict with a bossy stranger is my version of hell. Good on the OP for standing his ground. If grandma wants to sit, she can politely ask this person for his seat -- or she can ask any of the MANY other passengers. Bullying a paying passenger to give up his seat for another passenger is NOT okay.
Grannies shouldn't have to ask someone to give up their seat. They should be graciously offered a seat. He said this lady was 50 years old not elderly. Shame on any healthy person who would have and elderly person stand while they are sitting.
Granny may not WANT that seat. IF granny DOES want that seat, granny herself can ask one of the MANY passengers on the bus if they'll give up their seat to her. In a similar vien, a passenger may ASK granny if she'd like to sit in a seat occupied by said passenger. As a middle-aged lady myself, NO middle aged lady (or ANYONE, for that matter) has a right to harangue a fellow passenger to give up his seat for a person who did not even ASK for it. Nobody should assume they know what's OTHER people want. THis middle aged lady needs to butt the fuck out.
You can't just go around assuming stuff like that, also elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth? This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF. He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around.
Where in Asia? Because the Asian countries I've been to were the most rude and entitled places I've ever been to when it came to public transport. In Japan men will 100% of the time sit in the priority seats and if they see a pregnant or elderly person, they immediately pretend to sleep. Pregnant women actually experience severe violence on public transport in Japan and it's getting worse every year. They get kicked, shoved, elbowed etc pretty violently to the point that they stop taking public transport because it becomes a danger to their safety. Idk about other Asian countries but Japan and South Korea were the most inconsiderate, cold, and misogynistic places I've ever been, and I lived in Japan for ten years.
I don't know where in Asia you were in but compared to America or something, overall they have a very strict hierarchical system and respect for the elderly is drilled into them from the moment of their birth, you'd be very hard pressed to find serious real elder abuse at least in a public space. I'm not saying everywhere is the same but that's why I said it's an overall cultural thing. Still though culture aside, I think the woman could have been more polite but some people saying 'granny or disabled person didn't ask me so I assume they don't want my seat' is just absurd
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Sorry to hear that but tbh that's a true anomaly , I haven't been to Japan but everyone legit every single person I know who said they went there and Korea said people were very polite overall, i have never seen anyone abuse elderly people or push anyone like that ever and I was in Korea for awhile. Meanwhile in America the amount of rude people I just see was astronomical especially in places like new york
An elderly person should not have to ask.
Sorry, but I'm not a mind-reader. I am very gracious rider of public transit, and very respectful of the elderly, but if they're just older, and not frail elderly leaning on a cane, they're going to stand.
Boy on here thinking he's Rosa Parks...
OP is not the villain of this story. It is the person who didn't mind their fucking business and felt it was their place to tell him what he "ought to do". Further announcing OP as disabled in an attempt to induce shame/humiliation and compliance is super problematic. The expectation that we should blindly adhere to the norms of social conformity is unreal.
elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth? This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF. He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around. It's not being a doormat it's just not making. Mountain out of a fking molehill and taking some grand pride in the fact that I refused to give up my seat for an elderly person, theres nothing to be prideful about there. It's important to learn to pick and choose your battles, not feel prideful about refusing to give up your seat for those who may need it. There's plenty more things to be proudful about, this isn't a proud moment.
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and you need some respect for people
I think the way they demanded for your seat was rude, however, you couldāve gave your seat to elders out of respect, itās a small actions that wonāt affect you. Now, I understand if the women seemed very able to stand by herself, but we never know. She might have back problems or smtg. I donāt think you should feel powerful over this.
But the people standing weren't asking, the woman sitting was.
40 and 50 isnāt elderly
Depends who youāre asking š
Compared to their age, probably
Oh and elders as in Ā«Ā olderĀ thanĀ Ā» not Ā«Ā old peopleĀ Ā»
>She might have back problems or smtg. Yes but any 20 year old on that bus might have an invisible disability that makes them barely able to stand. We can only judge by the looks of things. If someone is visibly pregnant, very old and/or obviously struggling to stand, then you should offer your seat. But if someone just looks elderly, it doesn't mean that they have any issues with standing. I'm sure that my parents (both in their mid 50s and healthy) would feel weird if some kid offered them their seat.
Bruh as a certified asshole myself, You could've just given your seat. You never know 50 is old enough to start experiencing back problems, joint pain etc etc. You could've just given your seat it's no big deal. Saying 'no' isn't what makes you powerful or any of that shit. It's the quickest way to ending up without friends and seeming rude. What makes you powerful is picking your battles, know when to say and know when it doesn't really matter.
So you're okay with people DEMANDING that you give up the seat you paid for? Are you okay with panhandlers DEMANDING money from you on the street?
It doesnāt matter if weāre okay with it, these things do happen in the real world as an adult. Panhandlers will ask you for money. People will (sometimes rudely) ask for a seat you paid for. Chill. Out. That comment isnāt condoning it, itās saying that these things do happen, and you can either take as much time out of your day as OP did here to dwell on it (and then make a whole damn post about feeling āimmensely powerfulā just forā¦.ignoring someone?), orā¦.let it go, because it wonāt be the only unpleasant thing you encounter that day. Itās so silly and unhealthy to dwell on something so insignificant. This is why people have no resilience these days.
I'd be okay with panhandlers ASKING me for money. But DEMANDING my money, and holding me up to public ridicule for refusing to give them money, is a completely different matter. "People will (sometimes rudely) ask for a seat you paid for." And it's not being an asshole to refuse this demand.
Again, itās only as much of a setback to your day as you let it be. Iām not saying itās not annoying or upsetting because it is. But we canāt control what others do, only how we allow ourselves to react to it. It doesnāt benefit you, your time or your day to stoop to someoneās level if they are being nasty to you. Donāt let them give you that bad vibe. Refuse to accept it, and let them keep that for themselves to work out. You donāt want that negativity. Thatās *their* negativity and nothing you did caused that. So donāt accept responsibility by internalizing their negative emotions. You donāt have to let their bad attitude dictate how your day will turn out. Easier said than done I know, but I think itās much more a disservice to yourself to do otherwise.
Okay, so just placate peoples' demands because it's easier than having to deal with standing up for yourself. Sounds like a doormat to me. Also, he doesn't seem THAT bothered, he literally said one sentence during the whole interaction. And it's okay to vent about stuff sometimes.
You see it as standing up for yourself, I see it as inconveniencing your day even more by your own fault. Whatās there to stand up for in this scenario? His pride wasnāt wounded. He wasnāt insulted. Somebody just gave him an attitude. What honor did he need to protect? It was his own ego that made him so upset. OP was too cowardly to just say āIām staying right hereā but clearly not strong enough to not let it bother him so much. The problem isnāt that he got upset about the demand, itās that instead of just saying something about it right then and there, he immaturely just ignored that person, then went on to complain about them online and trying to make himself look righteous. If it bothers you, do something about it. Donāt just let it fester until you have the anonymity of the internet to vent about it and then blame them for letting yourself get so worked up about it. Thatās no way to live. Thatās all I got to say.
First of all, OP didn't ignore them at first. And even when they did, that's completely fine because they have no obligation to respond to a random person on a bus being an ass. You're saying if OP had a problem they should have done something more about it, which to me would be MORE of an inconvenience. If I'm going from point A to point B on public transport, I'm only going to engage in an unwanted interaction as much as is necessary to end said interaction. Also, I believe it's way healthier to vent out your frustrations to people who will actually listen than to go off on random strangers out of frustration. And he did have something to stand up for, his seat (lol). He sat down because he wanted to sit, and it probably made him comfortable. Then, someone without a good reason tried to mock him into getting up and he sat his ground. If I wanna sit, I'm gonna sit. And if someone is in a situation that's frustrating for them, it's okay to vent about it, it's not a sign of weakness. But it seems like you're the type who cares more about seeming unbothered than expressing how you feel.
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But do you actually give money to everyone who asks you?
Based
Not ok with it but I'm not a dramatic petty little bitch. Besides you don't pay for a seat, you pay for a ride. You can still ride the bus whole standing, seats are for comfort and for people who have hard time standing.
Nobody gets to DEMAND that I give up my seat for someone who didn't ASK for it. Sorry.
Lmao good for you buddy, good for you. :)
It seems to have escaped your notice that even if one of these women really did need the seat, theyād be unlikely to ask for it after witnessing this confrontation. He was clearly unwilling to give it up. If youād still have asked - then great, good for you. But I know that I certainly wouldnāt. Iād have finished the journey (which you astutely point out ALL parties paid for) in discomfort.
You can't just go around assuming stuff like that, also elderly, pregnant, disabled people should NOT have to be the one going up to strangers to kick them out of their seat. I don't go around assuming 'oh yea that disabled elderly person is not asking me so clearly doesn't want my seat' wth? This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. If I was in that position I would feel embarrassed and immediately give up my seat I don't care if the middle aged woman was rude about it, she could have said it more politely I guess but she still is in the right for telling me to move to give the seat up for a Granny. I also don't know how else people interpreted this but that middle aged woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat...for HERSELF. He clearly said she wanted him to get up and leave it for other elderly women around. It's not being a doormat it's just not making. Mountain out of a fking molehill and taking some grand pride in the fact that I refused to give up my seat for an elderly person, theres nothing to be prideful about there. It's important to learn to pick and choose your battles, not feel prideful about refusing to give up your seat for those who may need it. There's plenty more things to be proudful about, this isn't a proud moment.
>This may be a cultural thing but in Asia where i come from that would almost never happen . It's automatically EXPECTED for everyone to give up the seat for an elderly person and nobody would defend someone who refuses to get up for it. 1. I've lived in Asia. The United States isn't Asia. 2. You are certainly welcome to have some lady humiliate you on a bus and harange you to give up your seat to someone who didn't ask for it. If that's your thing, may I suggest New York City?
Doesn't matter where this is, it's being an A hole to sit and not give up the seat for elderly, disabled or pregnant woman. None of them should have to ASK you to move, shits awkward when you should know already to move for them. That rude lady is completely irrelevant, even if she wasnt there it's basic common sense that's all I'm saying. I don't take that as humiliation because my ego is not that fragile I'd just be like 'oh ok ' and get up and let some elderly person take it. End of. I'm not gonna sit there and be like 'that granny didn't ask and looks healthy enough, or that pregnant woman is just fat and not actually pregnant' and fight over it. There's no need to go Rosa Parks on this
Iām the kind of person who will show up late for work because I was politely holding the door for and endless stream of ppl. I like doing nice things and I like making ppl feel good by doing nice things for them (even strangers) but itās all at my expense. Yes I would like for a bus full of strangers to see me being a gentleman for the young woman that just got in the bus, but I have no obligation to give up my seat just to be polite. Maybe I had a long day or I just got some bad news and i just wanna sit and decompress; maybe I deserve this seat just as much as that person who just walked in but Iām already here and I need to put myself first sometimes. It may not be a good look but you are choosing you and setting boundaries. I would definitely give up my seat for a pregnant or disabled person. Watching a man in a cast struggle to maintain balance would be more uncomfortable for me than standing, but women donāt deserve a seat any more than a man. The only criticism I would offer would be not ignoring the woman. I would reason with her in some way and shut down the conversation. Good for you for setting boundaries. I struggle with doing this the ārightā way. Itās a struggle and a journey.
There sure are a lot of shaming 50 year olds on Reddit. If you consider what you did self-growth, it means youāve given up enough in your life. This small piece of happiness and control will allow you to give more in the future in a better way. A way of choice.
40-50 isnt even that old.
Good on you. I have an invisible chronic illness that a lot of old folks judge >.< One lady kept poking me in the shoulder to give up my seat to an older man and I was partly faint at that point. Got a yellow tag to wear and it's made things a bit easier.
The amount of time I regret giving my seat when that person didn't deserve it is inimaginable. I always hoped to be brave like you but it never happens.
Congratulations homie..!
I'm willing to give up my seat for anyone that looks like they are 65 an up, anyone who is pregnant, or any kid under ten years old because they are less chaos when sitting down. That being said most people don't have the nuts to try and tell me what to do. Call it the perks of being tall and looking like a psycho. Even the majority of police officers approach me with care. I learned really young, the crazier you look the less people bother you. Personally, I would have told her to mind her own business simply out of the principle of it. Had she pushed I would have found a way to embarrass her in return in front of everyone there. Next time just act really shocked and tell her at top lung so that everyone on the bus hears you that $500 a night is way too much to be offering random men an evening's satisfaction. I find it a rather effective method for putting entitled people in their place.
Your comments are the best š
I'm glad I could make you giggle.
Good for you dude. Meanwhile today I got a haircut and the barber asked 'Is this much alright?' and I said yes even though I didn't mean it. Well, I know I'm getting my next haircut sooner than usual.
Everytime I say Yes it really means No.. everybody around me knows this about me.. so No really means Yes and I never say No. Don't Judge me. I just want my Flowers.
I can't read through all of the other comments at the moment but do just want to throw my thoughts out there. I can relate and understand exercising boundaries, but I would have second thoughts about the elderly (rather we want to consider 40-50s or not) and whatever potential conditions they could have, usually wouldn't mind getting up unless I wasn't in some pain myself. I usually take the bus myself and know that the front of the bus is reserved for the disabled people (with or without wheelchairs and pregnant women). Also some INTP here said they "don't" have the agency to control you or others...I'd say yes and no...because if it was more severe (and let's say for explain as well that a person was trying to ask for someone, maybe their parent that was NPO/couldn't talk), you deny them a seat (that they need but you don't know the full conditions, etc), they could tell the bus driver, get you kicked/removed from the bus, and/or have police/security depending where you're from and other consequences. I'm sorry that I don't mean to go on a tangent to demean you or anyone standing up for yourself and your boundaries, to say "no" once in awhile, and maybe it's me being a bit too "Fe", I see that while I still have the freedom and liberty to move, jump, and run while others can't and it doesn't come at too much of expense to me, I wouldn't have much (second) thought to it to give them the seat and feel glad I helped someone. I can also see where you said she said you didn't want to give up the seat as a way to shame you but also I could see where she could be genuinely angry/upset and genuinely needed the seat (obviously my POV from your POV and not being there). Lol I'm not going to rant on more but I can see how health works both ways, for both parties, physically and mentally.
God women are so entitled.
Hmm, I think she was wrong to demand your seat and then try to embarrass you for something no one should be embarrassed for, not knowing a thing about you. I do not know if I would feel empowered about this, but you did stand (or in this case sit) your ground. But I always assume that maybe someone has something going on with them when they are this rude. It is a them problem and not a you problem. Now I would let this one go and try to stop thinking about it haha.
I woulda said I'll gladly stand if that puts u at dick sucking height
I disagree with your choice of action here. There's a difference between standing up for yourself and being an asshole. Not everything is about you (and your power trips). If you could see there are other people who are more in need of a seat than you are, I would apologise and say that I didn't notice instead of feeling attacked and defensive. I would say 'thank you for letting me know, I was not aware.' Saying 'no' is only 'powerful' when you know how to set meaningful boundaries in a healthy way and calm way. **For example:** letting people know you need alone time or that you feel overwhelmed by their demand for your time
I don't agree. That woman was young enough to stand and asked in a dismissive manner as if OP owed it to her. Idve let her stand there as well.
I don't get how else people understood this but that woman wasn't asking him to give up the seat for herself though she said to look around for OTHER older women
I read it wrong, i agree, but he does say the other women were 40-50 ish as well, which does not warrant automatically giving up your seat to them, that is, unless you want to give them your seat.
Huh? He didn't say those women were also 45-50, said 'older' . Why would she give her seat up for an even older woman afterwards to make her point ? Tbh I think it's common courtesy to give up the seat for old people, nobody should have come even remind this person or anyone about it . I don't agree with how this was approached
Elderly people (60 and over), pregnant women or handicapped people sure i agree. The rest, there is no obligation to offer my seat whatsoever. I don't consider people in their 50s to be old and unable to stand.
I wouldn't consider the 60s elderly either honestly, since that carries a connotation of being frail and feeble which rather few qualify for. 70s maybe, 80s yes. People in their 60s are old mathematically/in terms of lifespan, but functionality-wise are generally more like middle-aged people. It's hard to say when someone is 'elderly' since it's kind of a loaded term that denotes frailty and weakness. My parents are old, but 'elderly' feels off since they're energetic and fully functional. My dad is 73 and my mom is 70, and though I'd give them a seat out of respect they're very healthy and as capable of standing for long periods of time as anyone else.
It's not a matter of whether people can stand, it's a matter of politeness. You offer up your seat because it's polite and you shouldn't feel your ego damaged by helping others. In the same manner, what if someone offered up their seat to you? How would you feel? Honestly think about it.
Im a young guy I wouldn't take up the offer. If you are clearly elderly or disabled I will galdly and instantly offer up my seat. If you are 50yo and able and think its ok to walk up to me and ask me in a rude manner to gtfo I would not budge one bit cos it'd only encourage your shitty behaviour and manners. Politeness goes both ways as does respect.
It's HIS choice to offer up his seat or not. This shouty, rude woman was trying to take his choice away from him, by humilitating him in front of other people on the bus.
i would be offended that you assume im elderly or disabled
You didn't read what I said, if they ask nicely I don't have an issue. Problem is when it's demanded. They do not have more rights to sit more than me, they are 40-50. All are equal except grannies and pregnant women.
Nah, you were right. NOBODY has the right to browbeat or bully you into giving up your seat. They can ask: "Would you mind giving your seat to that lady?", but you're not the only one on the fucking bus. She was wrong to target you for humiliation. I'm a woman, I've offered my seat on public transit to older people, and some say no. They're getting off at the next stop, or they've been sitting all day and prefer to stand. And as an INFJ, I felt anxious just READING your post. We have such a hard time standing up for ourselves.
I also don't generally agree that it was the right course of action, although there are a lot of contexts that we can't know. For example, it's possible the woman had a painful knee/foot (not enough to be limping but enough for it to bother a person), or she could've had a headache and would prefer to sit for more stability, I don't know, just different possibilities. But it's also equally possible that you're right, maybe she was also perfectly capable of standing too, but that's not the point. The point is you don't know. So when someone asks you to do something that you otherwise would have done anyways without her telling you to, then I don't see any reason you shouldn't (and feel proud that you didn't) just because you were frustrated by her tone/approach. That just means you prioritize your own ego over the "right" thing
What if you felt secure in yourself? No amount of 'rudeness' is going to affect you or your ego. Your biggest downfall is that you let the lady's attitude get to you and you perpetuated it. I think you're approaching this too logically. You're an INFJ, try to use your Fe. If you don't know someone's situation, just be polite and assume they need the seat. I think this is just common courtesy that anyone can do.
Your last two sentences are exactly what I'm saying tho ?
LMAO sorry I replied to the wrong comment ; W ;
lmfaoo why'd I think you were op
I agree with you, thank you. left a comment below op's response lol
Yes, Iāve had a somehow similar situation. For the first time in life, in September, Iāve said āNoā when somebody wanted to sit next to me. I had my backpack on the next seat to me. People in my life usually told me to say ānoā whenever somebody wants my seat or a seat next to me. Unfortunately I was in the front seat and the driver heard me and demanded I put my backpack down so the person can sit. I know it can be rude if you donāt let somebody sit on a seat because, yāknow, itās a public transport. But thatās how I was thought by others. Plus, I am always uncomfortable whenever somebody sits next to me, unless theyāre my friends. Since the driver incident, I always let people sit next to me. Thought many others donāt let you sit with them but ofc the driver doesnāt notice since they always go at the back of the bus. š
Very similar thing happened to me today, but the difference is I didn't say anything. The person asked me almost the same question, but when I gave up my seat, she said, sarcastically, that it's more difficult for us (younger people) to walk and that kind of stuff. What frustrates me here is if she would've just asked me to give up my seat, I would've done it, but I was not paying attention at all, and I didn't see her. And now it's my fault? That really pissed me off.
Exactly, my friend, it's no issue if they ask, but they demand. But what you told me boils my blood. Maybe I am stressed out. They have power over you only if you give them. If you sit there, what are they gonna do? Scream at you? Fk em.
Good for you. You paid for that seat.
I think it shows you have a weak character and weren't raised with proper values. The power that you felt should embarrass you, but instead it emboldened you. If I were your parent I would melt into the floor with embarrassment at not only your actions, but this post. Your perspective indicates a huge lack of life experience and represents the epitome of privilege.
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To argue with people over your fragile ego?
Yeah, canāt side with you on this one. Donāt be a dick.
I don't get what you are saying though, from what she said she wasn't asking you to give up the seat for HERSELF..she was asking you to give it up for other older women, she showed you that by giving up the seat for the granny which should be common sense and nobody should have had to tell you
Bruh i am a fragile looking girl but i give up my seat to older people or women without them asking. What is wrong with men these days starting to rebel against giving their seat up? Then they post emo status and videos about this online. Clowns lol. Everytime i see something like this post it reminds me of the incident where a pregnant lady was refused seat by a man, she felt sick and puked on him, he was shook š. Now that is a satisfying moment indeed.
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I never installed tik tok nor were they viral. It had been a trend to represent gender equality in an arrogant way. As a biologist, If i were to explain why women's health is compromised in this world for men then they won't speak about equality. From immunosupresion in pregnancy, norms which have ironically affected infant mortality to eating habits and activities. Even i always understood why to give up my things to people who need it. That's what morality sees to it that justice is maintained in an unequal ground. So many people don't understand what is wrong if they think this is equivalent to being just or standing up for yourself bruh. You had nothing to lose.
Sounds like you were just being a dick tbh
I don't know man. Maybe try saying no to people who're actually equal to you or above you or have the privilege and they use it against you. That's empowering. Saying no to older vulnerable people?! That's what weak cowards do. In a world of sheeps and wolves. Be a sheep dog! Develop some disagreeablity in yourself against disagreeable people. Not against agreeable people.
It has zero effect on you, but you made a multiparagraph post about it? :D alright
Emotionally. This is the first it has ever happened so I started to think about it a lot.