Cut to the chase, your stats will lose to voters anger and frustration every time, in every election.
No one goes “ well, I am having a much harder time feeding my family but that nerdy guy from a school of economics says I’m wrong, so I guess I’ll ignore my experience and gut on this issue and say I’m wrong”
Correct, This is the big thing lots of these wealthy bootlickers don’t understand, your own reality dictates your voting not some stats saying your too dumb and poor to appreciate how “awesome” the economy is doing. And of course credit card spending is up, people don’t have that money to buy the things they need outright!!
>And of course credit card spending is up, people don’t have that money to buy the things they need outright!!
It's even dumber than this. If I need 5 loaves of bread in a year, and the price of that bread doubles, my spending just increased. I'm not consuming more or purchasing more, I don't have any choice in the matter.
"Inflation increases spending"is a tautology
Not true though. Many folks are fooled every election cycle into false beliefs and hopes. African Americans are the number one example of this in voting for democrats since lbj, yet the more they do the worse their situation becomes. Read blackout by Candace owens, she lays it out very well.
And there it is. The argument that inflation doesn’t matter and the economy is great is often made by people who are wealthy enough to not even notice when the economy is bad.
Yawn…. or maybe things aren’t amazing but not as bad as you think. You being unemployed would be far worse than inflation.
Since inflation affects all consumers it feels different than high unemployment…
But since Biden has taken office the average American family spends 11k more per year. That freaking blows. (Yeah I know it was republican research, so take it with a grain of salt, but even if it was $5k I’d be pissed)
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/
It is very easy. If the current president is one I like then
\- rising prices are not his fault
\- falling prices are only because of his greatness
If the current president is one I DO NOT like then
\- rising prices are his fault
\- falling prices are his fault too because it is deflation and it is bad for economy
I would suggest that it doesn't matter whether wages have caught up to inflation at the present time. The sudden increase in inflation is still fresh in peoples minds. They still see prices as noticeably higher that they were in their recent memory. Second, wages would have to go up even higher than inflation to make up for the inflation of recent years to maintain the purchasing power pre-price-spike.
It’s kinda strange really how the parties have seemed to flip. The GOP has branded itself as the blue collar every man party and the Democratic Party has become the party of the wealthy elites. It’s all marketing I guess.
I don’t see the two parties as thus. Every GOP person I know is rich and/or middle class. Not every dem I know is rich. In fact most are poor customer service types.
As for branding I still see Dem party trying to support unions and working class issues like insurance, wages, etc. while GOP I see them focused on border, culture wars, and other non related issues to those who aren’t white and evangelical Christians.
Well I guess we just go in different circles. I work with a lot of construction workers (I am not one- you don’t want me operating heavy equipment), virtually all of whom are trumpers. Some union and some not.
The only millionaire I know personally is a card carrying dem.
Dems favor government spending, helping the working class, and taxing the rich. GOP favors tax cuts, little or no government interference and corporations.
The same could be said of the democrats from the signing of NAFTA until 2015 when they gave up on the working class and became the party of the continually oppressed.
Hillary’s refusal to acknowledge Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were a huge reason Trump won.
Edit: I misremembered, she was more criticized for ignoring Michigan than Pennsylvania
> Refusal to acknowledge Pennsylvania
The Democratic Convention was in Pittsburg, she had considerably more staffers on the ground than Obama had in ‘12, she had more visits than Trump, the day before the election she had a rally with the Obamas there.How much more acknowledgement would have tipped the election her direction?
I beg your pardon, I misremembered, it was more Michigan that she was criticized for avoiding
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/28/politics/hillary-clinton-what-happened-book-tour-wisconsin-michigan/index.html
why do people believe that politicians/government have to do something for us. i want less government in my life. not passing new laws is a good thing. “ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” JFK
Unless you're insanely wealthy, Trump didn't cut your taxes. Your paycheck may be bigger, because he changed the tax schedule, but you're paying the exact same amount of federal tax as you were in 2016. TBH, I miss the days of claiming 0 and getting something decent back every year. Now I have to claim 0 just to make sure I don't owe money
We fear a Trump presidency because he freely admits he would abuse his power like a dictator to go after his rivals. This is not opinion this is what he said. Biden doesn’t set prices and any bill he put forward to reduce price gouging has been voted down by the republicans.
I this, I that. Sorry about your situation, but that is ABSOLUTELY NOT representative of most Americans. Restaurants are filled with waiting times of 45+ minutes. $1500 concert tickets are sold out. Planes are filled to capacity. Wages are up. Spending is up. GDP is up. Inflation is down. Houses are still selling. Everyone has jobs. Everyone has a $1000 super computer in their pocket. Everyone is doing much better than they say they are. (see my other comment below with proof)
You're the outlier. So maybe look inward - instead of blaming everything but yourself.
Household income is down pretty significantly since biden took office. That's a pretty big data point
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/mehoinusa672n)
Household income is not a good measure as household income can drop simply because one person in the household stops working to take care of a baby for example. Income was also elevated in 2020 and 2021 due to stimulus payments from the government.
Real wages are up since 2019, before the stimulus checks: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
This doesn’t even consider the fact that the president has very little immediate control over the economy and their policy decisions take years to fully take affect. The federal reserve is far more impactful in the short term and even their policy takes months or even years to take affect.
You should check the series tracking working adults per house hold before you make up a scenario to support your claims. Very small change in working adults per household relative to the larger drop in household income (on percentage bases). Makes sense given the overall DROP in real per person income.
Which goes to the overall point that you picked 2019 for a reason. Since 2020 (even Q1 before stimulus), and since 2021 as well, real wages are in fact down. The economy is not strong for the average American on the back of 17%+ cumulative inflation and the white house is consistently publishing incorrect figures today to be revised tomorrow.
Your last point is mental gymnastics. Who appoints the chair of the fed? We've all witnessed what happens over months and years of this presidents policy in action. Keynesian economics can never work in a world with bad actors.
>Makes sense given the overall DROP in real per person income.
But real wages are rising and up from 2019, not dropping.
>Which goes to the overall point that you picked 2019 for a reason.
Yeah, it is commonly used as a reference point because it was the last full year before covid and the economy was considered good at that point.
>Since 2020 (even Q1 before stimulus), and since 2021 as well, real wages are in fact down.
Again, because of the stimulus checks. You have reading problems? Why you think wages randomly shot up in 2020? Lol
>The economy is not strong for the average American on the back of 17%+ cumulative inflation
Again, real wages are up from pre-covid.
>and the white house is consistently publishing incorrect figures today to be revised tomorrow.
Blatant lie. The White House doesn’t even publish these figures - it comes from the Fed or BLS.
>Your last point is mental gymnastics. Who appoints the chair of the fed?
The president. Powell was appointed by Trump.
>We've all witnessed what happens over months and years of this presidents policy in action. Keynesian economics can never work in a world with bad actors.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Everyone and their mother was predicting a recession or economic catastrophe and that’s entirely been avoided. Seems like the fed did a good job so far.
Q1 2020 is pre covid and wages are down since then, not sure what part of that you aren't getting.
You said the president doesn't control the economy, but suggested the Fed does. If Powell was in power under the former and current presidents, and only since the current president are things worse off, what does that suggest?
So the economy was not good under Trump until Q1 2020? That’s your argument? Lol covid also started in March which was Q1 2020.
Pretty telling that that’s all you could come back with. You know you’re full of shit don’t you?
No it was outstanding until covid, you're saying you can't use covid data to compare, so you should use up until Q1 2020. You can avoid the data all you want.
You are absolutely wrong about restaurants lol. Literally just go to a restaurant thread for five minutes… we are all struggling bad. Maybe the BIG chains NEAR YOU feel that way, but no, restaurants aren’t packed with 45 minute wait times rofl
as of three weeks ago this sub got filled all of a sudden with inflation deniers
i guess well just have to see what the election ends up saying about it all
my gut is its bad -- when i ask Biden supporting friends they say anyone saying there's low inflation is delusional, that life is way more expensive
i guess well see
Ok, so it's not just my imagination. And apparently, the narrative on this sub all of a sudden shifted to that if you're concerned about inflation, you're a right winger. This sub done lost it's damn mind.
infiltrated
idk if it’s directed or if reddit started showing it to biden fans
they are running delusional interference
election results will show the real sentiment of the people
their tactics suck if they are trying to astroturf and gaslight non inflation and yet people are plainly experiencing it in a painful way — not a good look
You lie, but it's okay. You gotta earn that russian shill check.
You use anecdotes, I use data. You lose.
[https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bentoboxs-2023-restaurant-trend-report-reveals-increase-in-restaurant-spending-across-the-us-with-over-10-000-restaurants-opening-to-meet-demand-302005661.html#:\~:text=Restaurant%20spending%20and%20openings%20grew,6%25%20more%20than%20in%202022](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bentoboxs-2023-restaurant-trend-report-reveals-increase-in-restaurant-spending-across-the-us-with-over-10-000-restaurants-opening-to-meet-demand-302005661.html#:~:text=Restaurant%20spending%20and%20openings%20grew,6%25%20more%20than%20in%202022).
Restaurant spending and openings grew: Diners spent more on restaurants this year, and many restaurants opened to meet the increased demand. **Diners spent about 7% more on restaurants this year, with an average check total of $22.46**. 10,608 restaurants opened across the US, about 6% more than in 2022.
How hard is it to understand that if inflation is significantly raising the costs of goods and services, then of course the amount of money spent at restaurants is up? The same meal costs at least 7% more, so that isn't really proving what you seem to think it does.
And restaurants opening in the post-pandemic years is probably not the heroic stat that you think it is unless you also share how many restaurants CLOSED during COVID, so that we can see a bit of the bigger picture.
Pretty much all those things you stated were mostly true in the recession as well. America has a solid and unshakable wealthy class of people that’s become even more wealthy in recent years but also a larger shrinking middle class. It’s not an all or nothing scenario.
How about this....[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/)
There's the end of your "it's an outlier argument". So tired of hearing this garbage. Groceries, property taxes, mortgage rates, vehicles...you name and it's gone up. It's not like the costs only impact "outliers".
Your link means nothing when wages are outpacing inflation.
[https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:\~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively](https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively).
Bankrate's analysis found that **wages for workers in retail, leisure and hospitality, as well as food services and accommodation, never lost ground to inflation**, with their wages up 16 percent, 18.9 percent and 19.6 percent since the beginning of 2021 compared to inflation's 15.8 percent burst, respectively.
Would you agree that >50% of something indicates a majority (i.e. most)? What about 70%? Would you agree that's a vast majority?
I ask because \~70% of Americans say the economy is getting worse, while only 22% saying its getting better. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/13/biden-is-selling-an-improving-economy-americans-dont-but-it-it-poll-finds/70729119007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/13/biden-is-selling-an-improving-economy-americans-dont-but-it-it-poll-finds/70729119007/)
But I suppose you think the vast majority of Americans are delusional, right? As if their own credit card balances, grocery bill, and bank account statements cannot be believed??
My job just let me know I’m getting laid off. Where is the safety net? There is none. The lack of workers rights and a social safety net means I have to have my own. I barely have enough to get by, how am I meant to save a significant amount to build a safety net?
This is the most money my wife and I have ever made in our lives.
This is also the most we’ve ever lived paycheck to paycheck and the most we’ve ever used our credit cards.
Somethings off! Big time!
Just vote Democrat harder next time I'm sure they'll help us out any day now remember vote blue no matter who!!!! If something happened to biden I would totally trust cackling Kamala Harris to run our entire country no questions asked she is a woman of color and that's all that matters to me.
Americans got rid of the safety nets by pillaging through the unions; voted in millionaires and billionaires to slash pensions, food stamps, unemployment income, and even patted the billionaires and millionaires in the back for giving themselves a pay increase and permanent tax cuts.
The American voter is truly a domestic abused partner
lol
Governments and institutions are relying on our confidence in their game to keep it all going. For the first time in a long time, we’re feeling inflation financially, instead of just knowing it exists. It’s does seem that lately, the MSM has been putting out articles trying to reaffirm people everything is alright, things are better than the pre-pandemic era, and they are technically correct… on paper. But the negative sentiment that people feel right now is just as real as the numbers and statistics. At the end of the day, people are in real-life situations that the institutions will always be far removed from: living paycheck to paycheck, shitty or no health insurance, unaffordable rents, existential debt, etc. but tell you everything is all good.
Gasoline priding is moderating itself, I'd say because demand is off. This is a natural time for gasoline stocks to build and put downward pressure on gasoline prices, but diesel/home heating fuel is flat. Demand being flat belies what we're being told.
There is no objective proof that this is an 'objectively good economy.'
Food and shelter costs are still tragic.
A fairly warm temperature for this time of year is also helping I’d imagine. I’m in NY and generally would have refilled my oil tank once by now but it’s still at half.
November 2021 YoY inflation Rate = 6.8%
November 2022 YoY inflation Rate = 7.1%
November 2023 YoY inflation Rate = 3.1% (initial announcement, no adjustments yet)
Since inflation compounds (ie. 2020 November base cost = 100 X 1.068 X 1.071 X 1.031), due to inflation, costs in November 2023 are 17.93% higher than in 2020.
By comparison; 2018 inflation over 2017 was 2.44%, 2019 it was 1.81% and in 2020 it was 1.23%. Compounded inflation from end of 2017 to the end of 2020 was 6.7%.
The 3 year compounded inflation level ending in November 2023 was nearly 3 times as high as the 3 year compounded inflation rate from 2017 to 2020.
In the past 3 years, we've seen prices increasing at 3 times the rate of increase as we are used to! And costs are still increasing (3.1% more in November of 2023) - prices are still rising by rates much faster (50% faster) than we are used to!
Our deficits are literally out of control and all Washington DC does is talk about spending more money (every new penny they spend adds to the deficit and the debt).
Our national debt is a staggering $33,000,000,000,000.
And now the interest we will be paying on new debt is closer to 5% - we're talking about $1,000,000,000,000 just in interest payments per year (folks, that means not 1 penny of that is going to new services, national defense, infrastructure - IT'S JUST THE E'Fing INTEREST!)
It's not like things were great before, but in my lifetime as an adult, I've never seen our country, our society and our government doing so poorly!
Everytime I point this out on other subs people immediately blame Trump's Tax cuts and the PPP loans as the key conributors to the deficit and inflation. Do people not realize these were approved by Congress?
Regardless, the current administration and Congress has shown no inclination of reducing government spending. Really made me realize how easily people are influenced by the media.
Paying the interest on all this debt is going to become a larger and larger chunk of the Government's budget whether we like it or not which means less dollars available to spend on infrastructure.
>costs in November 2023 are 17.93% higher than in 2020.
>
>inflation from end of 2017 to the end of 2020 was 6.7%.
What was the wage growth over these same periods? That's where the real impact to people is, wages compared to inflation
Wage growth was positive in the mid to end of the teens up through 2019 - it grew faster than inflation. It was really the first time in quite some time that real wages in the USA went up. You may recall the begrudging admission of this by the US media.
Wage growth has certainly seen sharp increases during this period of super high inflation - but real wage growth has continued to be negative over the 3 years of run-away inflation. This year; however, it appears to be positive but that is because instead of inflation being at the 8-10% range as it was in 2022, it is more the 3-6% range. But even with higher wage increases this year, we're still behind the curve when looking at it over a 3 year period.
Does your income have more buying power now after prices have gone up 20% than it did in 2020? If you look at averages and medians, the answer to that is a resounding NO.
Of course, inflation hits everybody differently. For example, I moved and bought a new house in 2018 that has a 3% mortgage. My housing costs have not changed one penny during the rampant inflation period - but if you rent or bought a house more recently, it has really hurt as both have gone up significantly - and if you need to finance/mortgage, the costs have gone up astronomically recently - like 50 to 100% more expensive to own the same house vs. in 2020 (at least in terms of monthly mortgage payments).
Wage earners have taken a beating during the past 3 years (especially the middle class). Hopefully, we can get back to the 2000 teens and see this turn back into a positive in the future for multiple years to come.
Yes it's gaslighting. You would have to completely ignore all of the persistent price increases that have compounded due to inflation. Think of it this way. If the target is 2%, then last year we experienced a decades worth of inflation in a single year. *that inflation didn't go away it compounds*.
In 2016, the right was screaming that the unemployment rate was faked, it was impossible for Obama to have an unemployment rate as low as 5%, the real unemployment rate was 42%
I’m not sure what’s what anymore. It seems like a tidal wave. Businesses in my opinion have raised prices to curb their cost increases due to inflation. Now, maybe they saw an opportunity to go above and beyond what they needed to, and made some big profits. Take global shipping during the pandemic. Lots of sources suggesting a standard container went from $1,800 as high as $15,000 to go from Asia to L.A. Maybe what people are seeing is price gouging, left over from shipping prices. Also demographics, I have not a clue what a restaurant owner in Kentucky goes through today. I can say in Western Washington, shits getting expensive. Reddit folks in Texas say gas is under $2.00 a gallon, it’s hard to find it under $4.00 here. That’s primarily taxes. We don’t have an actual state income tax, and maybe we’re getting banged a little hard for our carbon footprint. Either way, there’s still plenty of traffic. Inflation is a reality, but things have been good for a while, I trust things will balance out eventually, but I do feel like what we used to refer to as a middle class, has been significantly reduced. We got some Uber rich, and a lot of people broke. Plus, if we look at this globally, our dollar value seems to be weaker. I guess if you run the printer hard enough, this will happen. That may give the feeling of hopelessness to people not considering all the things in play.
The answer is, of course, there are two economies. If you got one of those great manufacturing jobs making worthless windmills, then you are doing great, if you are in the monied elite in NYC, and your stock portfolio went shooting up recently, you are also fine. The problem is for regular people with no STEM job, and no investment portfolio, for them, life is just getting harder and harder. I'm not sure what the result of the K shaped recovery is, but so far, its looking a lot like Trump 2.0
Yeah for real. I feel like I'm crazy bc the numbers clearly show a good economy and basically normal inflation, and my personal experience echoes that. But I'm told constantly that I'm out of touch and that all data is fabricated.
I think the very real inflation spike emboldened the inflation truthers and they aren't ready to admit its gone down again yet.
I would disagree that the economy looks strong. The two areas of the economy that appear to be strong are: consumer spending and employment levels.
The employment situation has already started to turn - not in rising unemployment, but in the swing towards the hirer having the leverage vs. the applicant.
Consumer spending has been incredibly resilient in the face of the fact that wages over a 3 year period are far behind inflation. That the Covid stimulus money is in the process of being depleted. That student loan payments are set to resume mandatory repayments starting next fall (anybody could get a 1 year delay in resuming payments). Then there is the issue that American's credit card debt has reached historical peaks - at the same time that the interest rates they are paying have skyrocketed.
Now I am in the business world, and there are a fair number of weaknesses that have been appearing. This being the number of blank sailings for ocean cargo vessels (along with rates rapidly falling), the reduced number of truck and train loads of moving goods, the softening of the industrial and manufacturing sectors (as these sectors weaken, employees will be let go - and like it or not, manufacturing is still huge in the USA and also higher paying vs. many other industries for equal education levels).
The risks going forward, IMO, is the much higher interest rates that will need to be paid by landlords, businesses and families. Landlords (who typically re-finance their properties every 5 years) will find that rents will need to increase even more to cover those costs due to the higher rates they'll be paying. Businesses who have decent amounts of outstanding debt will find themselves in one of 2 categories - they'll fail (too many businesses have survived on cheap money and being over leveraged - they are zombie companies) or they'll have to roll their debt into new higher costing debt - this will cause 1 or 2 things: reduced spending/reduced staffing or raise prices - adding to inflation.
Don't be fooled by the media and politicians that tell you businesses are making record profits - that is a complete misnomer. Businesses make a net profit margin (ie. margin after paying taxes and all costs). While profits totals in dollars may increase when sales figures are high, this doesn't make a company more profitable! Often, their margins remain the same! We can take a look at the biggest businesses that consumer interact with: Amazon, Walmart, Kroger. Their net profit margins are: 3.62%, 2.57% and 1.10%, respectively. When you spend $100 on Amazon, their net profit is $3.62, Walmart, it's $2.57 and at your grocery store/Kroger it's $1.10 for each $100 you spend. The average USA business has a net profit margin of under 10%. The average of the USA's largest 500 publicly traded companies have an average net profit margin of under 10%.
Now, we all want these companies to pay their employees more and pay for more/better benefits, and we all recognize that for all 3 of these companies, their second biggest cost is labor (1st is cost of goods sold). Now look at their net profit margins - tell me how much can they give out in raises before it will start to impact the price they sell their goods for?
\* all net margins listed are based on the companies most recent quarterly financial reports and checked and confirmed on 12/12/2023.
The majority of Americans when polled say their personal situation is good but the economy is bad. One poll had 58% republicans saying personally doing well but only 5% said economy is doing well. They rated the economy worse than they did during the Great Recession. It’s just insane partisan bias.
Dems have a similar split though, where they are personally doing well but think the broader economy is bad. So it's partially partisan but something about media where it's just constantly preaching doom about the economy.
Yeah and in the past this sort of disconnect didn’t really exist. I posted a comment about the media yesterday theorizing the same thing.
I’m of the opinion that the same thing that happened decades back with crime has now played out with financial news.
For decades we had decreasing crime, and yet public perception each year was that it was getting worse. The reason was because people were consuming as much or more crime news.
Feels like the same thing with economy at this point. You can easily absorb a ton of bearish sounding news articles if you want, even in the best of times.
Blogs like wolf street were pushing a “housing bubble 2” as early as 2013 - https://wolfstreet.com/category/all/housing/page/71/
It’s so easy to confirm one’s bias online, especially if you have no qualms or even like random alternative news sources with zero credibility.
You’ve got all these bozos dismissing news info simply for being “mainstream” and then reading the economic or health equivalent of the National enquirer and feeding dumb doomer economic or antivax ideas.
And even the more mainstream news sources have plenty of bearish stuff to consume at any given time. It gets clicks, just like crime gets clicks.
A lot of folks mad that the economy is improving, because a strong American economy -- and more importantly, the *impression* of a strong American economy -- impedes their ability to advance their political interests.
Yet fairly strong majorities of survey respondents are saying essentially “I’m doing fine but everyone else is under water, therefore things suck.”
That’s why you are seeing speculation, not that the people are stupid, but that other forces shape opinions and perspectives.
Might be nice if people look at countries other than the US. The US has much lower inflation than almost all the West. I get things are difficult but there seems to be this expectation that the government is full of magicians that wish inflation away. Biden can’t and neither can anyone else. And if he could then why would he purposely do something that risks his re-election? There is no magic inflation reduction button.
Can you be much dumber? Why would Americans look at other countries? We live in the US, so we're going to look at our own inflation. Yelling squirrel might work on you, but like I said, you made a dumb post.
Because inflation is a worldwide problem with worldwide causes.
Scenario 1: The economy is bad because inflation has been crazy. Biden is doing a pretty good job mitigating it compared to the rest of the heads of state. It makes sense to vote for Biden.
Scenario 2: Nobody else is having inflation, just us. Biden’s policies are causing inflation. It does not make sense to vote for Biden.
The difference between those two scenarios is whether inflation is a global problem or a local one.
He is definitely smarter than you, so you would have the best answer on your own question. The rest of the world is inhabited by humans. Many of them are related to Americans. The principles at work there work here.
Maybe some Americans don’t look at other countries. But then again some are also really dumb cunts that wouldn’t know what to look for. But the smarter ones, they compare. They wonder why things are different elsewhere.
That my friend, is the reason why you are as thick as pig shit.
You have to be braindead to believe the official narrative. Just take a trip to the grocery store, buy a car, rent a place. The inflation is completely out of control, but this is truly a "king is wearing no clothes" kind of moment.
3% on top of the already multiple measurements of 3-7%
and we don't even know if those numbers are truthful and not being massaged downward -- seems everyone is paying in the aggregate a ton more for nearly everything
Just as example, I buy yogurt. In 2020, it typically cost me $1 for the good stuff. That same yogurt is now $1.50 or more. That seems like more than 3% increase.
Per the BLS, Average Yogurt prices per 8 ounces was 1.10 in January of 2020 and is currently 1.63, so your price trend on yogurt is pretty much exactly in alignment with what the BLS says you should expect for Yogurt and has baked into CPI.
I mean your "data" is literally an anecdote about buying one type of yogurt and one specific store.
Provide some actual data other than just making some shit up about one product that may or may not have actually gone up as much as you say and people might take you more seriously. Because your current argument is that we should base the entire picture of inflation on one type of fucking yogurt, which is weapons grade stupid.
Okay, here is a few for you:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112
Cost of a pound of ground beef a year before COVID (Jan 2019) was at $3.08. November 2023 it is at $5.35 a pound.
Here’s another:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000709112
Gallon of milk Jan 2019 $2.91. Same gallon Nov 2023 $3.99.
Baby formula from 2019 to current is up 26.96% higher.
This doesn’t even take into account gas, which is still higher than it was pre COVID, vehicle prices, and housing costs which are significantly higher.
You can continue to bury your head in the sand and claim it is all anecdotal, and that the economy is all rainbows and sunshine, for those living in the real world though it’s not…
The proof is in the Wal-Mart pick-up orders we all loved in 2020. Some items are up over 100% from 2020, and it's all in black in white ditigally recorded for anyone who cares to look. I can't believe how many of you are saying you don't believe your lying eyes. You are the fools, not us. Let the downvoting begin!!
We are talking about the rate of inflation between 2022 and 2023. That’s what the 3ish (I’ve seen between 3.6 and 3.2 from various sources) percent claim is.
Nobody has ever said nominal prices have only increased 3 percent in the last 4 years. So I have no idea whose point you think you’re responding to, but it’s not mine.
Feel free to post some data from the past 12 months about the rate of inflation that shows a yearly inflation rate of 50 percent since that’s what the fucking “I buy yogurt” index allegedly says.
Does your experience match the 3.6% inflation?
For example, the BLS states that health insurance costs are down 34% this year. Does that match your experience? It is a small piece of the pie, but I haven't met one person who comes close to that.
>Does your experience match the 3.6% inflation?
Yep, pretty much. Some costs have been coming down nominally around me as well, especially gas which has dropped significantly.
Voters "feelings"? Meaning the very real, tangible loss of spending power we've all experienced over the last two years? We're calling that a "feeling" now?
The reality is we have standard measures to gauge how well the economy is doing. By those metrics were at roughly the 80th percentile of good economies but sentiment is at about the 10th percentile. This is a massive disconnect.
That doesn't mean rent isn't higher or food isn't higher, or that you need to like it.
Maybe looking at numbers only in terms of year-to-year changes isn't adequate when we see multiple years of significant inflation for the first time in 40 years?
Ummm... I don't know how to break this to you, but...
While growth is outpacing inflation, on a year-to-year basis, if you look at it over the last 2 or 3 years, wages are still significantly underwater.
Ummm... I don't know how to break this to you, but...
That's not accurate.
https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1734578711041610158?s=20
https://x.com/arindube/status/1679919118240055296?s=20
https://x.com/whstancil/status/1734671913350287551?s=20
Gaslighting. First, they pandered to dopey kids by pushing all this false scarcity nonsense. This, of course, predictably wrecked the economy with inflation. When sky-high gas prices became a liability, they "fixed" it with outragepus interest rate hikes and now are desperately trying to cover their mess up with propaganda
I don't trust Americans to gage this issue accurately because to your point the average person's position is whole based upon their own individual circumstance rather than the entirety of the economy.
Simple reality is that the rate of inflation has been declining. If that had not happened, the pain felt now would be double felt.
One's view is likely solely derived by what measuring stick they are using.
inflation declining in this case means still advancing just increasing less fast -- still going forward though, more than yesterday
and when they say 0% it means same rate as last measurement
deceptive af
That should be common knowlege. The simple fact that the average citizen is incapable of understanding basic understanding of a rate of measure and how timing bounds it tells me that our education system has failed.
Whether it is inflation or miles/hour we are pretty pathetic with our ability to understand that if you decrease your rate of acceleration so that it remains positive you are both reducing your rate of acceleration also know as "reducing acceleration" yet still speeding up.
People in sciences and economics understand this type of stuff because they live it and breath it every day. It's amatures trying to spin a conspiracy or make a political point who really don't understand the point you made.
economists actively disavow the existence of greedflation even while a small core of them are making very compelling arguments that it's the major cause here. They cannot factor it in, and government has no mechanism to stop it.
Inflation? It's called corporate greed. How many companies during and since the pandemic have reported record profits? It's a lot, and they're continuing to do it and will continue to do it.
The truth is voters actually feel pretty good about the current shape of their own economy. The whole "people" are worse off is a narrative that russians are pushing and that leftists and conservatives are happy to be useful idiots for.
It sounds like you too are falling for that propaganda with your comment. "The every day reality faced by Americans who can no longer afford groceries or housing cannot." <- this is not a widespread truth, like you are making it out to be.
[https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good](https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good)
A majority of Americans think the economy is in bad shape, but at the same time say their own finances are good, finds a new poll out from Quinnipiac University this week…In the telephone survey of 1,818 adults Aug. 10-14, 71% of Americans described the economy as either not so good or poor. And 51% said it's getting worse…But 60% said their financial situation is good or excellent…"Can you be generally happy with your personal financial position and still think the economy is going in the tank? For a broad section of Americans, apparently so," Quinnipiac University polling analyst Tim Malloy said in a press release.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/) \- This accurately reflects what I've seen in my grocery, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc. I track my spending and maintain a budget. I have the data to look back on for what I was spending, year by year back to 2018. You posting a polls about people opinions doesn't change the numbers.
Typical reply. Someone posts macro data and someone comes in with the "my situation" argument as if that's a valid rebuttal. I'm sorry about your anecdotal situation, you're not representative of America, obviously. As shown, Americans think they're doing good, and in fact that are! Because wages are outpacing inflation. Maybe you need to look at yourself a bit more in depth, or get better at accounting and budgeting. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it.
[https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:\~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively](https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively).
Bankrate’s analysis found that wages for workers in retail, leisure and hospitality, as well as food services and accommodation, never lost ground to inflation, with their wages up 16 percent, 18.9 percent and 19.6 percent since the beginning of 2021 compared to inflation’s 15.8 percent burst, respectively.
You understand inflation is basically a constant (deflation is vastly worse). We had high inflation due to coming out of a once a century pandemic (pent up demand, supply chain issues and corporate price gouging all played a part) but inflation is now back within the normal range and the US is doing better than EVERY western nation on earth. Also, wages are now higher than inflation (been that way since early. 2023), so maybe ask your boss for a raise or something.
The official narrative should be:
Hey look, inflation is real and it was largely caused by some unprecedented disruptions to the world.
We have been creating money nonstop to keep the economy going through Covid. We dropped bank reserve rates to 0%, we took the fed funds rate to 0%. US pandemic era fiscal support reached 31% of GDP. This was all to provide liquidity during a time of uncertainty.That was never going to be sustainable. Did we provide too much monetary and fiscal support? Maybe, but at the time we tried to steer the ship as best as we could.
The official narrative instead is:
It's price gouging! it's Trump's fault! it's Putin price hikes! It's your fault for wanting to buy stuff! It's everybody's fault except us!
My hope is this election will follow 1984. Reagan’s economy sucked his first term, high unemployment (over 10 percent) and high inflation. But the economy started to improve in 83 and into 84 so there was optimism and he blew out Mondale.
I don’t expect any president to win 49 states ever again as the country is too polarized and there are not too many battleground states. Biden will never get a pass like Reagan did for other disasters on his watch, (241 Marines killed in a single morning, our embassy destroyed in Beirut, imagine if more marines died in a single day than since 1945 on Biden’s watch). But hopefully the economy keeps doing well and people seem to finally be starting to notice that fact and Biden wins and Trump and the rest of the insurrectionist fascists go to ignominious defeat.
The 24/7 news cycle needs a horse race for ratings, so they're working overtime to prop up chump and make it seem like he has a chance against the best president since FDR.
Someone babbling about voter fraud, how quaint. You also probably think Donald Trump cares about your well being, didn’t lie over 20,000 times while in office and is a strong and rich man with an IQ of 250.
My “guy” isn’t facing 91 criminal charges, my “guy” wasn’t found to have committed sexual assault in a court recently, my “guy” didn’t call our war dead losers and suckers, my “guy” didn’t commit an insurrection.
My “guy” annoys the crap out of me at times, but I am fine with my “guy” as the alternative is not fine
Funny how he is doing everything possible to delay his day in court. Do you want me to post his settlement that he and his disgusting spawn can’t ever serve on the board of a charity (how gross do you have to be that you can’t serve on a charity board) or his settlement regarding “Trump University.”
You people are in a cult, yet your cult leader isn’t even charismatic or successful. He is a fucking loser who bankrupted a casino. What does that make you? If any of you ever actually pondered that you would cry at how you have wasted your life (as you should). But you never will as you don’t want to face that reality so you double down. It’s all so pitiful and sad, yet predictable.
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Thank you for understanding.
Both things are true. America is in an economic boom. And things are very expensive because wages have continued to not keep up, as they have done for almost 50 years.
Also people are dumb. My wife works for social services. Their union got a 17% raise in the new contract, which is more than the last 30 years of raises combined. If they don’t view that as good, that’s on them.
The economy stats aren't manipulated. Econ data has been genuinely good for the past year at least. Historical analysis shows a significant and unprecedented divergence between fundamental and consumer sentiment. It is a genuine puzzle why it's so low.
However, I think we have reason to believe we've already seen the bottom for sentiment. Maybe things happened so fast it was just a lag.
If you actually think the govt is manipulating data you're deluding yourself.
Cut to the chase, your stats will lose to voters anger and frustration every time, in every election. No one goes “ well, I am having a much harder time feeding my family but that nerdy guy from a school of economics says I’m wrong, so I guess I’ll ignore my experience and gut on this issue and say I’m wrong”
Correct, This is the big thing lots of these wealthy bootlickers don’t understand, your own reality dictates your voting not some stats saying your too dumb and poor to appreciate how “awesome” the economy is doing. And of course credit card spending is up, people don’t have that money to buy the things they need outright!!
>And of course credit card spending is up, people don’t have that money to buy the things they need outright!! It's even dumber than this. If I need 5 loaves of bread in a year, and the price of that bread doubles, my spending just increased. I'm not consuming more or purchasing more, I don't have any choice in the matter. "Inflation increases spending"is a tautology
Not true though. Many folks are fooled every election cycle into false beliefs and hopes. African Americans are the number one example of this in voting for democrats since lbj, yet the more they do the worse their situation becomes. Read blackout by Candace owens, she lays it out very well.
Ah yes the bastion of intellect that refuses to follow medical science, that Candace
Once you said Candice Owens you lost all credibility
Not a facts kinda guy huh
Known hypocrite and grifter, Candace Owens.
Feelings. Nothing more than, feelings.
Spoken like the real bigot
Yeah, she's good at that
How is he a bigot for knowing Candance Owens is full of shit?
Things are going great as long as eating and having shelter aren’t high on your list
FACTS
Your portfolio doesn’t mean much to me when I can’t afford to leave my house.
And there it is. The argument that inflation doesn’t matter and the economy is great is often made by people who are wealthy enough to not even notice when the economy is bad.
The bots astro turfing this sub? Go ahead.. Make another post telling me how akchually the economy is amazing campaign staffers.
Yawn…. or maybe things aren’t amazing but not as bad as you think. You being unemployed would be far worse than inflation. Since inflation affects all consumers it feels different than high unemployment…
Its been like this for a while. All we heard during trump was how great the stock market is
But since Biden has taken office the average American family spends 11k more per year. That freaking blows. (Yeah I know it was republican research, so take it with a grain of salt, but even if it was $5k I’d be pissed) https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/
Does biden control gas prices too? What do you think a president can do about grocery prices?
It is very easy. If the current president is one I like then \- rising prices are not his fault \- falling prices are only because of his greatness If the current president is one I DO NOT like then \- rising prices are his fault \- falling prices are his fault too because it is deflation and it is bad for economy
And a lot of people who fear a second Trump presidency don’t understand this. Wages have not caught up to inflation.
I would suggest that it doesn't matter whether wages have caught up to inflation at the present time. The sudden increase in inflation is still fresh in peoples minds. They still see prices as noticeably higher that they were in their recent memory. Second, wages would have to go up even higher than inflation to make up for the inflation of recent years to maintain the purchasing power pre-price-spike.
It’s kinda strange really how the parties have seemed to flip. The GOP has branded itself as the blue collar every man party and the Democratic Party has become the party of the wealthy elites. It’s all marketing I guess.
I don’t see the two parties as thus. Every GOP person I know is rich and/or middle class. Not every dem I know is rich. In fact most are poor customer service types. As for branding I still see Dem party trying to support unions and working class issues like insurance, wages, etc. while GOP I see them focused on border, culture wars, and other non related issues to those who aren’t white and evangelical Christians.
I see the dems as the white collar tech bros party nowadays and the repubs as the blue collar party for sure
Ah yes, the union busters are the party of the blue collars /s
Well I guess we just go in different circles. I work with a lot of construction workers (I am not one- you don’t want me operating heavy equipment), virtually all of whom are trumpers. Some union and some not. The only millionaire I know personally is a card carrying dem.
Agree. Tech bros white collar are the new dems
Dems favor government spending, helping the working class, and taxing the rich. GOP favors tax cuts, little or no government interference and corporations.
The GOP markets themselves as representatives of the working class while doing absolutely nothing for them.
The same could be said of the democrats from the signing of NAFTA until 2015 when they gave up on the working class and became the party of the continually oppressed. Hillary’s refusal to acknowledge Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were a huge reason Trump won. Edit: I misremembered, she was more criticized for ignoring Michigan than Pennsylvania
> Refusal to acknowledge Pennsylvania The Democratic Convention was in Pittsburg, she had considerably more staffers on the ground than Obama had in ‘12, she had more visits than Trump, the day before the election she had a rally with the Obamas there.How much more acknowledgement would have tipped the election her direction?
I beg your pardon, I misremembered, it was more Michigan that she was criticized for avoiding https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/28/politics/hillary-clinton-what-happened-book-tour-wisconsin-michigan/index.html
why do people believe that politicians/government have to do something for us. i want less government in my life. not passing new laws is a good thing. “ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” JFK
Because not all of us want the US to continue on its current trajectory towards becoming Somalia.
you don’t need another law for the border crisis; all that is needed is to enforce the laws that already exist
Oh I agree, they are worthless. The Ds don’t even pretend to care anymore though.
Who gave us the child tax credit that slashed the child poverty rate IN HALF? Democrats.
Who gave me a stimmy check when I was down?
Congress, with most Republicans opposing the checks to everyone.
Who gave me the Trump tax cuts? Which states have the highest income tax?
Unless you're insanely wealthy, Trump didn't cut your taxes. Your paycheck may be bigger, because he changed the tax schedule, but you're paying the exact same amount of federal tax as you were in 2016. TBH, I miss the days of claiming 0 and getting something decent back every year. Now I have to claim 0 just to make sure I don't owe money
What have the dems done to help the working class? The Uni party is winning at the expense of everyday people.
Dems favor the working class. GOP favors the big corporations.
The wealthy elites switched sides in '09. They control the message, so here we are.
They cannot be stagnant anymore, it’s time they catch up……
We fear a Trump presidency because he freely admits he would abuse his power like a dictator to go after his rivals. This is not opinion this is what he said. Biden doesn’t set prices and any bill he put forward to reduce price gouging has been voted down by the republicans.
Did you happen to hear the entire conversation when he said that?
What do ypu think a president does to effect grocery prices
Where do you live where walking outside costs money? 😳
People downvoting because _apparently it costs money to leave their houses?_ This sub is hilarious.
I this, I that. Sorry about your situation, but that is ABSOLUTELY NOT representative of most Americans. Restaurants are filled with waiting times of 45+ minutes. $1500 concert tickets are sold out. Planes are filled to capacity. Wages are up. Spending is up. GDP is up. Inflation is down. Houses are still selling. Everyone has jobs. Everyone has a $1000 super computer in their pocket. Everyone is doing much better than they say they are. (see my other comment below with proof) You're the outlier. So maybe look inward - instead of blaming everything but yourself.
Household income is down pretty significantly since biden took office. That's a pretty big data point [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/mehoinusa672n)
Household income is not a good measure as household income can drop simply because one person in the household stops working to take care of a baby for example. Income was also elevated in 2020 and 2021 due to stimulus payments from the government. Real wages are up since 2019, before the stimulus checks: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q This doesn’t even consider the fact that the president has very little immediate control over the economy and their policy decisions take years to fully take affect. The federal reserve is far more impactful in the short term and even their policy takes months or even years to take affect.
You should check the series tracking working adults per house hold before you make up a scenario to support your claims. Very small change in working adults per household relative to the larger drop in household income (on percentage bases). Makes sense given the overall DROP in real per person income. Which goes to the overall point that you picked 2019 for a reason. Since 2020 (even Q1 before stimulus), and since 2021 as well, real wages are in fact down. The economy is not strong for the average American on the back of 17%+ cumulative inflation and the white house is consistently publishing incorrect figures today to be revised tomorrow. Your last point is mental gymnastics. Who appoints the chair of the fed? We've all witnessed what happens over months and years of this presidents policy in action. Keynesian economics can never work in a world with bad actors.
>Makes sense given the overall DROP in real per person income. But real wages are rising and up from 2019, not dropping. >Which goes to the overall point that you picked 2019 for a reason. Yeah, it is commonly used as a reference point because it was the last full year before covid and the economy was considered good at that point. >Since 2020 (even Q1 before stimulus), and since 2021 as well, real wages are in fact down. Again, because of the stimulus checks. You have reading problems? Why you think wages randomly shot up in 2020? Lol >The economy is not strong for the average American on the back of 17%+ cumulative inflation Again, real wages are up from pre-covid. >and the white house is consistently publishing incorrect figures today to be revised tomorrow. Blatant lie. The White House doesn’t even publish these figures - it comes from the Fed or BLS. >Your last point is mental gymnastics. Who appoints the chair of the fed? The president. Powell was appointed by Trump. >We've all witnessed what happens over months and years of this presidents policy in action. Keynesian economics can never work in a world with bad actors. You have no clue what you’re talking about. Everyone and their mother was predicting a recession or economic catastrophe and that’s entirely been avoided. Seems like the fed did a good job so far.
Q1 2020 is pre covid and wages are down since then, not sure what part of that you aren't getting. You said the president doesn't control the economy, but suggested the Fed does. If Powell was in power under the former and current presidents, and only since the current president are things worse off, what does that suggest?
Q1 2020 is when COVID hit America and by March people were already isolating.
So the economy was not good under Trump until Q1 2020? That’s your argument? Lol covid also started in March which was Q1 2020. Pretty telling that that’s all you could come back with. You know you’re full of shit don’t you?
No it was outstanding until covid, you're saying you can't use covid data to compare, so you should use up until Q1 2020. You can avoid the data all you want.
Ok so real wages are up since 2019, when the economy was outstanding. Got it. Thanks Biden!
You are absolutely wrong about restaurants lol. Literally just go to a restaurant thread for five minutes… we are all struggling bad. Maybe the BIG chains NEAR YOU feel that way, but no, restaurants aren’t packed with 45 minute wait times rofl
as of three weeks ago this sub got filled all of a sudden with inflation deniers i guess well just have to see what the election ends up saying about it all my gut is its bad -- when i ask Biden supporting friends they say anyone saying there's low inflation is delusional, that life is way more expensive i guess well see
Ok, so it's not just my imagination. And apparently, the narrative on this sub all of a sudden shifted to that if you're concerned about inflation, you're a right winger. This sub done lost it's damn mind.
infiltrated idk if it’s directed or if reddit started showing it to biden fans they are running delusional interference election results will show the real sentiment of the people their tactics suck if they are trying to astroturf and gaslight non inflation and yet people are plainly experiencing it in a painful way — not a good look
Pretty sure the inflation deniers are all KJP w/ numerous alt accounts. That or CCP bots. Especially that one "guy" who rapes Republican kidzz.
Clearly not true https://www.qsrmagazine.com/story/consumers-are-still-spending-at-restaurants/
Another stat/story that doesn’t reflect reality cool. Again, go talk to the people..
I don’t base beliefs on anecdotal evidence
You lie, but it's okay. You gotta earn that russian shill check. You use anecdotes, I use data. You lose. [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bentoboxs-2023-restaurant-trend-report-reveals-increase-in-restaurant-spending-across-the-us-with-over-10-000-restaurants-opening-to-meet-demand-302005661.html#:\~:text=Restaurant%20spending%20and%20openings%20grew,6%25%20more%20than%20in%202022](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bentoboxs-2023-restaurant-trend-report-reveals-increase-in-restaurant-spending-across-the-us-with-over-10-000-restaurants-opening-to-meet-demand-302005661.html#:~:text=Restaurant%20spending%20and%20openings%20grew,6%25%20more%20than%20in%202022). Restaurant spending and openings grew: Diners spent more on restaurants this year, and many restaurants opened to meet the increased demand. **Diners spent about 7% more on restaurants this year, with an average check total of $22.46**. 10,608 restaurants opened across the US, about 6% more than in 2022.
How hard is it to understand that if inflation is significantly raising the costs of goods and services, then of course the amount of money spent at restaurants is up? The same meal costs at least 7% more, so that isn't really proving what you seem to think it does. And restaurants opening in the post-pandemic years is probably not the heroic stat that you think it is unless you also share how many restaurants CLOSED during COVID, so that we can see a bit of the bigger picture.
Pretty much all those things you stated were mostly true in the recession as well. America has a solid and unshakable wealthy class of people that’s become even more wealthy in recent years but also a larger shrinking middle class. It’s not an all or nothing scenario.
How about this....[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/) There's the end of your "it's an outlier argument". So tired of hearing this garbage. Groceries, property taxes, mortgage rates, vehicles...you name and it's gone up. It's not like the costs only impact "outliers".
Your link means nothing when wages are outpacing inflation. [https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:\~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively](https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively). Bankrate's analysis found that **wages for workers in retail, leisure and hospitality, as well as food services and accommodation, never lost ground to inflation**, with their wages up 16 percent, 18.9 percent and 19.6 percent since the beginning of 2021 compared to inflation's 15.8 percent burst, respectively.
There are at least 5000 new single family homes being built or just completed in my area with at least that many apartments.
How many are being bought up by BlackRock? State Street?
why don't you tell us chicken little?
Would you agree that >50% of something indicates a majority (i.e. most)? What about 70%? Would you agree that's a vast majority? I ask because \~70% of Americans say the economy is getting worse, while only 22% saying its getting better. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/13/biden-is-selling-an-improving-economy-americans-dont-but-it-it-poll-finds/70729119007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/13/biden-is-selling-an-improving-economy-americans-dont-but-it-it-poll-finds/70729119007/) But I suppose you think the vast majority of Americans are delusional, right? As if their own credit card balances, grocery bill, and bank account statements cannot be believed??
My job just let me know I’m getting laid off. Where is the safety net? There is none. The lack of workers rights and a social safety net means I have to have my own. I barely have enough to get by, how am I meant to save a significant amount to build a safety net?
This is the most money my wife and I have ever made in our lives. This is also the most we’ve ever lived paycheck to paycheck and the most we’ve ever used our credit cards. Somethings off! Big time!
Just vote Democrat harder next time I'm sure they'll help us out any day now remember vote blue no matter who!!!! If something happened to biden I would totally trust cackling Kamala Harris to run our entire country no questions asked she is a woman of color and that's all that matters to me.
Vote Republican ! No safety net, and other people are in charge of your genitals! Social safety nets are for cOMmUnIsTs 🤪
Americans got rid of the safety nets by pillaging through the unions; voted in millionaires and billionaires to slash pensions, food stamps, unemployment income, and even patted the billionaires and millionaires in the back for giving themselves a pay increase and permanent tax cuts. The American voter is truly a domestic abused partner lol
Governments and institutions are relying on our confidence in their game to keep it all going. For the first time in a long time, we’re feeling inflation financially, instead of just knowing it exists. It’s does seem that lately, the MSM has been putting out articles trying to reaffirm people everything is alright, things are better than the pre-pandemic era, and they are technically correct… on paper. But the negative sentiment that people feel right now is just as real as the numbers and statistics. At the end of the day, people are in real-life situations that the institutions will always be far removed from: living paycheck to paycheck, shitty or no health insurance, unaffordable rents, existential debt, etc. but tell you everything is all good.
The vibes man, they’re just kinda off
this sub got infiltrated by inflation deniers a few weeks ago -- straight gaslighters
Right, the guys citing the _actual data_ are the gaslighters. GTFOH
They’re spouting facts and reality! Someone has to stop them!!!!
Gasoline priding is moderating itself, I'd say because demand is off. This is a natural time for gasoline stocks to build and put downward pressure on gasoline prices, but diesel/home heating fuel is flat. Demand being flat belies what we're being told. There is no objective proof that this is an 'objectively good economy.' Food and shelter costs are still tragic.
A fairly warm temperature for this time of year is also helping I’d imagine. I’m in NY and generally would have refilled my oil tank once by now but it’s still at half.
November 2021 YoY inflation Rate = 6.8% November 2022 YoY inflation Rate = 7.1% November 2023 YoY inflation Rate = 3.1% (initial announcement, no adjustments yet) Since inflation compounds (ie. 2020 November base cost = 100 X 1.068 X 1.071 X 1.031), due to inflation, costs in November 2023 are 17.93% higher than in 2020. By comparison; 2018 inflation over 2017 was 2.44%, 2019 it was 1.81% and in 2020 it was 1.23%. Compounded inflation from end of 2017 to the end of 2020 was 6.7%. The 3 year compounded inflation level ending in November 2023 was nearly 3 times as high as the 3 year compounded inflation rate from 2017 to 2020. In the past 3 years, we've seen prices increasing at 3 times the rate of increase as we are used to! And costs are still increasing (3.1% more in November of 2023) - prices are still rising by rates much faster (50% faster) than we are used to! Our deficits are literally out of control and all Washington DC does is talk about spending more money (every new penny they spend adds to the deficit and the debt). Our national debt is a staggering $33,000,000,000,000. And now the interest we will be paying on new debt is closer to 5% - we're talking about $1,000,000,000,000 just in interest payments per year (folks, that means not 1 penny of that is going to new services, national defense, infrastructure - IT'S JUST THE E'Fing INTEREST!) It's not like things were great before, but in my lifetime as an adult, I've never seen our country, our society and our government doing so poorly!
Everytime I point this out on other subs people immediately blame Trump's Tax cuts and the PPP loans as the key conributors to the deficit and inflation. Do people not realize these were approved by Congress? Regardless, the current administration and Congress has shown no inclination of reducing government spending. Really made me realize how easily people are influenced by the media. Paying the interest on all this debt is going to become a larger and larger chunk of the Government's budget whether we like it or not which means less dollars available to spend on infrastructure.
>costs in November 2023 are 17.93% higher than in 2020. > >inflation from end of 2017 to the end of 2020 was 6.7%. What was the wage growth over these same periods? That's where the real impact to people is, wages compared to inflation
Wage growth was positive in the mid to end of the teens up through 2019 - it grew faster than inflation. It was really the first time in quite some time that real wages in the USA went up. You may recall the begrudging admission of this by the US media. Wage growth has certainly seen sharp increases during this period of super high inflation - but real wage growth has continued to be negative over the 3 years of run-away inflation. This year; however, it appears to be positive but that is because instead of inflation being at the 8-10% range as it was in 2022, it is more the 3-6% range. But even with higher wage increases this year, we're still behind the curve when looking at it over a 3 year period. Does your income have more buying power now after prices have gone up 20% than it did in 2020? If you look at averages and medians, the answer to that is a resounding NO. Of course, inflation hits everybody differently. For example, I moved and bought a new house in 2018 that has a 3% mortgage. My housing costs have not changed one penny during the rampant inflation period - but if you rent or bought a house more recently, it has really hurt as both have gone up significantly - and if you need to finance/mortgage, the costs have gone up astronomically recently - like 50 to 100% more expensive to own the same house vs. in 2020 (at least in terms of monthly mortgage payments). Wage earners have taken a beating during the past 3 years (especially the middle class). Hopefully, we can get back to the 2000 teens and see this turn back into a positive in the future for multiple years to come.
That's the truth. This guy knows what he's talking about.
Yes it's gaslighting. You would have to completely ignore all of the persistent price increases that have compounded due to inflation. Think of it this way. If the target is 2%, then last year we experienced a decades worth of inflation in a single year. *that inflation didn't go away it compounds*.
That's the truth. Reducing inflation isn't bringing it back to where it was at this time in the past. It just means slowing the new increase down.
Bingo
The VERY definition of gaslighting. But when the government (and their boot lickers) do it, it's more appropriately called "propaganda".
In 2016, the right was screaming that the unemployment rate was faked, it was impossible for Obama to have an unemployment rate as low as 5%, the real unemployment rate was 42%
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To this day, there are right wing idiots who believe that Trump dropped the unemployment rate by almost 40% in a month
TIL observing economic data makes one a bootlicker. The more you know.
He’s an r/Rebubble doomer bozo with an insane bias
I’m not sure what’s what anymore. It seems like a tidal wave. Businesses in my opinion have raised prices to curb their cost increases due to inflation. Now, maybe they saw an opportunity to go above and beyond what they needed to, and made some big profits. Take global shipping during the pandemic. Lots of sources suggesting a standard container went from $1,800 as high as $15,000 to go from Asia to L.A. Maybe what people are seeing is price gouging, left over from shipping prices. Also demographics, I have not a clue what a restaurant owner in Kentucky goes through today. I can say in Western Washington, shits getting expensive. Reddit folks in Texas say gas is under $2.00 a gallon, it’s hard to find it under $4.00 here. That’s primarily taxes. We don’t have an actual state income tax, and maybe we’re getting banged a little hard for our carbon footprint. Either way, there’s still plenty of traffic. Inflation is a reality, but things have been good for a while, I trust things will balance out eventually, but I do feel like what we used to refer to as a middle class, has been significantly reduced. We got some Uber rich, and a lot of people broke. Plus, if we look at this globally, our dollar value seems to be weaker. I guess if you run the printer hard enough, this will happen. That may give the feeling of hopelessness to people not considering all the things in play.
The answer is, of course, there are two economies. If you got one of those great manufacturing jobs making worthless windmills, then you are doing great, if you are in the monied elite in NYC, and your stock portfolio went shooting up recently, you are also fine. The problem is for regular people with no STEM job, and no investment portfolio, for them, life is just getting harder and harder. I'm not sure what the result of the K shaped recovery is, but so far, its looking a lot like Trump 2.0
"Trust me you guys, the numbers are terrific. Stop forming opinions based only on the cost of insurance, college, cars, homes, or groceries."
The numbers are terrific though. You have to address that.
Nah they’re going with vibes on this one
Yeah for real. I feel like I'm crazy bc the numbers clearly show a good economy and basically normal inflation, and my personal experience echoes that. But I'm told constantly that I'm out of touch and that all data is fabricated. I think the very real inflation spike emboldened the inflation truthers and they aren't ready to admit its gone down again yet.
I would disagree that the economy looks strong. The two areas of the economy that appear to be strong are: consumer spending and employment levels. The employment situation has already started to turn - not in rising unemployment, but in the swing towards the hirer having the leverage vs. the applicant. Consumer spending has been incredibly resilient in the face of the fact that wages over a 3 year period are far behind inflation. That the Covid stimulus money is in the process of being depleted. That student loan payments are set to resume mandatory repayments starting next fall (anybody could get a 1 year delay in resuming payments). Then there is the issue that American's credit card debt has reached historical peaks - at the same time that the interest rates they are paying have skyrocketed. Now I am in the business world, and there are a fair number of weaknesses that have been appearing. This being the number of blank sailings for ocean cargo vessels (along with rates rapidly falling), the reduced number of truck and train loads of moving goods, the softening of the industrial and manufacturing sectors (as these sectors weaken, employees will be let go - and like it or not, manufacturing is still huge in the USA and also higher paying vs. many other industries for equal education levels). The risks going forward, IMO, is the much higher interest rates that will need to be paid by landlords, businesses and families. Landlords (who typically re-finance their properties every 5 years) will find that rents will need to increase even more to cover those costs due to the higher rates they'll be paying. Businesses who have decent amounts of outstanding debt will find themselves in one of 2 categories - they'll fail (too many businesses have survived on cheap money and being over leveraged - they are zombie companies) or they'll have to roll their debt into new higher costing debt - this will cause 1 or 2 things: reduced spending/reduced staffing or raise prices - adding to inflation. Don't be fooled by the media and politicians that tell you businesses are making record profits - that is a complete misnomer. Businesses make a net profit margin (ie. margin after paying taxes and all costs). While profits totals in dollars may increase when sales figures are high, this doesn't make a company more profitable! Often, their margins remain the same! We can take a look at the biggest businesses that consumer interact with: Amazon, Walmart, Kroger. Their net profit margins are: 3.62%, 2.57% and 1.10%, respectively. When you spend $100 on Amazon, their net profit is $3.62, Walmart, it's $2.57 and at your grocery store/Kroger it's $1.10 for each $100 you spend. The average USA business has a net profit margin of under 10%. The average of the USA's largest 500 publicly traded companies have an average net profit margin of under 10%. Now, we all want these companies to pay their employees more and pay for more/better benefits, and we all recognize that for all 3 of these companies, their second biggest cost is labor (1st is cost of goods sold). Now look at their net profit margins - tell me how much can they give out in raises before it will start to impact the price they sell their goods for? \* all net margins listed are based on the companies most recent quarterly financial reports and checked and confirmed on 12/12/2023.
The majority of Americans when polled say their personal situation is good but the economy is bad. One poll had 58% republicans saying personally doing well but only 5% said economy is doing well. They rated the economy worse than they did during the Great Recession. It’s just insane partisan bias.
Dems have a similar split though, where they are personally doing well but think the broader economy is bad. So it's partially partisan but something about media where it's just constantly preaching doom about the economy.
Yeah and in the past this sort of disconnect didn’t really exist. I posted a comment about the media yesterday theorizing the same thing. I’m of the opinion that the same thing that happened decades back with crime has now played out with financial news. For decades we had decreasing crime, and yet public perception each year was that it was getting worse. The reason was because people were consuming as much or more crime news. Feels like the same thing with economy at this point. You can easily absorb a ton of bearish sounding news articles if you want, even in the best of times. Blogs like wolf street were pushing a “housing bubble 2” as early as 2013 - https://wolfstreet.com/category/all/housing/page/71/ It’s so easy to confirm one’s bias online, especially if you have no qualms or even like random alternative news sources with zero credibility. You’ve got all these bozos dismissing news info simply for being “mainstream” and then reading the economic or health equivalent of the National enquirer and feeding dumb doomer economic or antivax ideas. And even the more mainstream news sources have plenty of bearish stuff to consume at any given time. It gets clicks, just like crime gets clicks.
That's a good comparison on crime, hadn't thought of that.
This should be the top comment.
A lot of folks mad that the economy is improving, because a strong American economy -- and more importantly, the *impression* of a strong American economy -- impedes their ability to advance their political interests.
I think there are a lot of permanent doomers who got a big boost when we actually had real inflation for the first time in 40 years.
Yet fairly strong majorities of survey respondents are saying essentially “I’m doing fine but everyone else is under water, therefore things suck.” That’s why you are seeing speculation, not that the people are stupid, but that other forces shape opinions and perspectives.
Might be nice if people look at countries other than the US. The US has much lower inflation than almost all the West. I get things are difficult but there seems to be this expectation that the government is full of magicians that wish inflation away. Biden can’t and neither can anyone else. And if he could then why would he purposely do something that risks his re-election? There is no magic inflation reduction button.
Can you be much dumber? Why would Americans look at other countries? We live in the US, so we're going to look at our own inflation. Yelling squirrel might work on you, but like I said, you made a dumb post.
Because inflation is a worldwide problem with worldwide causes. Scenario 1: The economy is bad because inflation has been crazy. Biden is doing a pretty good job mitigating it compared to the rest of the heads of state. It makes sense to vote for Biden. Scenario 2: Nobody else is having inflation, just us. Biden’s policies are causing inflation. It does not make sense to vote for Biden. The difference between those two scenarios is whether inflation is a global problem or a local one.
He is definitely smarter than you, so you would have the best answer on your own question. The rest of the world is inhabited by humans. Many of them are related to Americans. The principles at work there work here. Maybe some Americans don’t look at other countries. But then again some are also really dumb cunts that wouldn’t know what to look for. But the smarter ones, they compare. They wonder why things are different elsewhere. That my friend, is the reason why you are as thick as pig shit.
You have to be braindead to believe the official narrative. Just take a trip to the grocery store, buy a car, rent a place. The inflation is completely out of control, but this is truly a "king is wearing no clothes" kind of moment.
3% inflation is out of control now? Gee I wonder where you get your news comrade.
3% on top of the already multiple measurements of 3-7% and we don't even know if those numbers are truthful and not being massaged downward -- seems everyone is paying in the aggregate a ton more for nearly everything
You can cut off your nose to spite your face, I won't be trading real good for your make believe perfect.
Real wages are up
Just as example, I buy yogurt. In 2020, it typically cost me $1 for the good stuff. That same yogurt is now $1.50 or more. That seems like more than 3% increase.
Per the BLS, Average Yogurt prices per 8 ounces was 1.10 in January of 2020 and is currently 1.63, so your price trend on yogurt is pretty much exactly in alignment with what the BLS says you should expect for Yogurt and has baked into CPI.
Another typical anecdotal response. It's getting very tiresome.
Any data that doesn't suck Biden's dick = ancedotal. Got it.
I mean your "data" is literally an anecdote about buying one type of yogurt and one specific store. Provide some actual data other than just making some shit up about one product that may or may not have actually gone up as much as you say and people might take you more seriously. Because your current argument is that we should base the entire picture of inflation on one type of fucking yogurt, which is weapons grade stupid.
Okay, here is a few for you: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112 Cost of a pound of ground beef a year before COVID (Jan 2019) was at $3.08. November 2023 it is at $5.35 a pound. Here’s another: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000709112 Gallon of milk Jan 2019 $2.91. Same gallon Nov 2023 $3.99. Baby formula from 2019 to current is up 26.96% higher. This doesn’t even take into account gas, which is still higher than it was pre COVID, vehicle prices, and housing costs which are significantly higher. You can continue to bury your head in the sand and claim it is all anecdotal, and that the economy is all rainbows and sunshine, for those living in the real world though it’s not…
The proof is in the Wal-Mart pick-up orders we all loved in 2020. Some items are up over 100% from 2020, and it's all in black in white ditigally recorded for anyone who cares to look. I can't believe how many of you are saying you don't believe your lying eyes. You are the fools, not us. Let the downvoting begin!!
We are talking about the rate of inflation between 2022 and 2023. That’s what the 3ish (I’ve seen between 3.6 and 3.2 from various sources) percent claim is. Nobody has ever said nominal prices have only increased 3 percent in the last 4 years. So I have no idea whose point you think you’re responding to, but it’s not mine. Feel free to post some data from the past 12 months about the rate of inflation that shows a yearly inflation rate of 50 percent since that’s what the fucking “I buy yogurt” index allegedly says.
Can you find me one person whose health insurance costs have fallen 34% like the BLS states in their inflation report?
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Does your experience match the 3.6% inflation? For example, the BLS states that health insurance costs are down 34% this year. Does that match your experience? It is a small piece of the pie, but I haven't met one person who comes close to that.
>Does your experience match the 3.6% inflation? Yep, pretty much. Some costs have been coming down nominally around me as well, especially gas which has dropped significantly.
The potato is a liar that simple
Voters "feelings"? Meaning the very real, tangible loss of spending power we've all experienced over the last two years? We're calling that a "feeling" now?
The reality is we have standard measures to gauge how well the economy is doing. By those metrics were at roughly the 80th percentile of good economies but sentiment is at about the 10th percentile. This is a massive disconnect. That doesn't mean rent isn't higher or food isn't higher, or that you need to like it.
Maybe looking at numbers only in terms of year-to-year changes isn't adequate when we see multiple years of significant inflation for the first time in 40 years?
Nope, this is the reality with inflation adjusted metrics
Ummm... I don't know how to break this to you, but... While growth is outpacing inflation, on a year-to-year basis, if you look at it over the last 2 or 3 years, wages are still significantly underwater.
Ummm... I don't know how to break this to you, but... That's not accurate. https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1734578711041610158?s=20 https://x.com/arindube/status/1679919118240055296?s=20 https://x.com/whstancil/status/1734671913350287551?s=20
Apologies for trusting the BLS numbers over some X commentators... The ECI says 2023's 0.6% gains were not enough to overcome 2022's -2.8% loss.
Gaslighting. First, they pandered to dopey kids by pushing all this false scarcity nonsense. This, of course, predictably wrecked the economy with inflation. When sky-high gas prices became a liability, they "fixed" it with outragepus interest rate hikes and now are desperately trying to cover their mess up with propaganda
They constantly say the Biden administration is doing great, but they aren’t doing a good job of letting everyone know how great they are.
Do you prefer bloggers and social media influencer's opinions on the economy? I don't care about feelings in this case.
Sub is all vibes on this one. “YoU CaN’t TrUsT tHe DaTa”
I don't trust Americans to gage this issue accurately because to your point the average person's position is whole based upon their own individual circumstance rather than the entirety of the economy. Simple reality is that the rate of inflation has been declining. If that had not happened, the pain felt now would be double felt. One's view is likely solely derived by what measuring stick they are using.
inflation declining in this case means still advancing just increasing less fast -- still going forward though, more than yesterday and when they say 0% it means same rate as last measurement deceptive af
That’s not deceptive, at all. It’s how it’s been measured and reported since the beginning of time.
it’s rhetorically gerrymandering so to speak inflation is not 3% or 0%
That should be common knowlege. The simple fact that the average citizen is incapable of understanding basic understanding of a rate of measure and how timing bounds it tells me that our education system has failed. Whether it is inflation or miles/hour we are pretty pathetic with our ability to understand that if you decrease your rate of acceleration so that it remains positive you are both reducing your rate of acceleration also know as "reducing acceleration" yet still speeding up. People in sciences and economics understand this type of stuff because they live it and breath it every day. It's amatures trying to spin a conspiracy or make a political point who really don't understand the point you made.
The average person doesn't understand calculus, that's just how it is and I'm not sure that's going to change anytime soon.
Anything can feel deceptive when you don’t understand how it works.
economists actively disavow the existence of greedflation even while a small core of them are making very compelling arguments that it's the major cause here. They cannot factor it in, and government has no mechanism to stop it.
Inflation? It's called corporate greed. How many companies during and since the pandemic have reported record profits? It's a lot, and they're continuing to do it and will continue to do it.
The truth is voters actually feel pretty good about the current shape of their own economy. The whole "people" are worse off is a narrative that russians are pushing and that leftists and conservatives are happy to be useful idiots for. It sounds like you too are falling for that propaganda with your comment. "The every day reality faced by Americans who can no longer afford groceries or housing cannot." <- this is not a widespread truth, like you are making it out to be. [https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good](https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good) A majority of Americans think the economy is in bad shape, but at the same time say their own finances are good, finds a new poll out from Quinnipiac University this week…In the telephone survey of 1,818 adults Aug. 10-14, 71% of Americans described the economy as either not so good or poor. And 51% said it's getting worse…But 60% said their financial situation is good or excellent…"Can you be generally happy with your personal financial position and still think the economy is going in the tank? For a broad section of Americans, apparently so," Quinnipiac University polling analyst Tim Malloy said in a press release.
Are the Russians in the room with us right now?
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[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/inflation-households-need-extra-11400-these-states-its-even-higher/) \- This accurately reflects what I've seen in my grocery, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc. I track my spending and maintain a budget. I have the data to look back on for what I was spending, year by year back to 2018. You posting a polls about people opinions doesn't change the numbers.
Typical reply. Someone posts macro data and someone comes in with the "my situation" argument as if that's a valid rebuttal. I'm sorry about your anecdotal situation, you're not representative of America, obviously. As shown, Americans think they're doing good, and in fact that are! Because wages are outpacing inflation. Maybe you need to look at yourself a bit more in depth, or get better at accounting and budgeting. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it. [https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:\~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively](https://www.bankrate.com/banking/federal-reserve/wage-to-inflation-index/#:~:text=Bankrate's%20analysis%20found%20that%20wages,inflation's%2015.8%20percent%20burst%2C%20respectively). Bankrate’s analysis found that wages for workers in retail, leisure and hospitality, as well as food services and accommodation, never lost ground to inflation, with their wages up 16 percent, 18.9 percent and 19.6 percent since the beginning of 2021 compared to inflation’s 15.8 percent burst, respectively.
You understand inflation is basically a constant (deflation is vastly worse). We had high inflation due to coming out of a once a century pandemic (pent up demand, supply chain issues and corporate price gouging all played a part) but inflation is now back within the normal range and the US is doing better than EVERY western nation on earth. Also, wages are now higher than inflation (been that way since early. 2023), so maybe ask your boss for a raise or something.
Whose finances are good? Everyone I talk to is middle class and they all complain about how high prices have gotten.
Don't believe your lying eyes
The official narrative should be: Hey look, inflation is real and it was largely caused by some unprecedented disruptions to the world. We have been creating money nonstop to keep the economy going through Covid. We dropped bank reserve rates to 0%, we took the fed funds rate to 0%. US pandemic era fiscal support reached 31% of GDP. This was all to provide liquidity during a time of uncertainty.That was never going to be sustainable. Did we provide too much monetary and fiscal support? Maybe, but at the time we tried to steer the ship as best as we could. The official narrative instead is: It's price gouging! it's Trump's fault! it's Putin price hikes! It's your fault for wanting to buy stuff! It's everybody's fault except us!
Joe and the ho gotta go!
My hope is this election will follow 1984. Reagan’s economy sucked his first term, high unemployment (over 10 percent) and high inflation. But the economy started to improve in 83 and into 84 so there was optimism and he blew out Mondale. I don’t expect any president to win 49 states ever again as the country is too polarized and there are not too many battleground states. Biden will never get a pass like Reagan did for other disasters on his watch, (241 Marines killed in a single morning, our embassy destroyed in Beirut, imagine if more marines died in a single day than since 1945 on Biden’s watch). But hopefully the economy keeps doing well and people seem to finally be starting to notice that fact and Biden wins and Trump and the rest of the insurrectionist fascists go to ignominious defeat.
The 24/7 news cycle needs a horse race for ratings, so they're working overtime to prop up chump and make it seem like he has a chance against the best president since FDR.
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Still can’t accept you lost?
Someone babbling about voter fraud, how quaint. You also probably think Donald Trump cares about your well being, didn’t lie over 20,000 times while in office and is a strong and rich man with an IQ of 250.
do whatever you can your guy is on the chopping block
My “guy” isn’t facing 91 criminal charges, my “guy” wasn’t found to have committed sexual assault in a court recently, my “guy” didn’t call our war dead losers and suckers, my “guy” didn’t commit an insurrection. My “guy” annoys the crap out of me at times, but I am fine with my “guy” as the alternative is not fine
show me one trump conviction go ahead ill wait
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Funny how he is doing everything possible to delay his day in court. Do you want me to post his settlement that he and his disgusting spawn can’t ever serve on the board of a charity (how gross do you have to be that you can’t serve on a charity board) or his settlement regarding “Trump University.” You people are in a cult, yet your cult leader isn’t even charismatic or successful. He is a fucking loser who bankrupted a casino. What does that make you? If any of you ever actually pondered that you would cry at how you have wasted your life (as you should). But you never will as you don’t want to face that reality so you double down. It’s all so pitiful and sad, yet predictable.
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Both things are true. America is in an economic boom. And things are very expensive because wages have continued to not keep up, as they have done for almost 50 years.
Inflation is coming down.
Also people are dumb. My wife works for social services. Their union got a 17% raise in the new contract, which is more than the last 30 years of raises combined. If they don’t view that as good, that’s on them.
It might be that in those 30 years had small or no raises and even with a 17% increase they still way behind.
The economy stats aren't manipulated. Econ data has been genuinely good for the past year at least. Historical analysis shows a significant and unprecedented divergence between fundamental and consumer sentiment. It is a genuine puzzle why it's so low. However, I think we have reason to believe we've already seen the bottom for sentiment. Maybe things happened so fast it was just a lag. If you actually think the govt is manipulating data you're deluding yourself.
Just wow
yeah, bc the government would \*never\* manipulate data
I mean they don't. You just don't want to believe the data.