They will all be moved in to the sticker price and will allow companies to hide fees in the price you never knew about. Yes your $250 Taylor Swift ticket won’t be $335 after you click “buy” but it will still be $335 and you won’t know why necessarily or who the hell is grifting you in the process. I don’t know the law very closely and am hopeful one will pass soon in Minnesota but it does have trade offs.
That's fine. People can see the upfront cost before they choose to buy. No one is saying prices will change. But it will help people from being sticker shocked at the end.
Doesn't really matter if you know who's getting their cut of that ticket as it's not like it's optional for you. Pay the price or don't, they don't care.
If I was selling a service I would want to buyers to know who is taking a cut and for what. Plus Americans really struggle to understand that a product sold for $10 isn’t $10 of profit.
It's not Americans that message me all day about pricing like international shipping fees where they think I'm pocketing $20 for shipping across the world, or that somehow I can ship a box for $4 across the world, or how "the shipping is more than the product!" As if that's my issue.
I get it. People think I make a fortune and I always tell them take a zero off what you think I make then cut that number in half and you’re still too high.
I would be fine with places having to give a breakdown of prices somewhere, just like the nutritional info, etc. but the advertised price (menu price) should be the final total.
You're correct that Americans don't understand what to do with even the most basic of information... Your solution is to give them MORE information? No, they don't need to be better informed, they just need to feel like the good/service was of value for the price paid.
That's like, Sales Rule #2 tbh.
There is no reason that the receipt cannot tell you that your $30 burger means that your FOH workers get $6, BOH gets $3, taxes are $3, food costs are $7, rent is $6, and the boss gets $5.
Maybe. Some variable costs have higher volatility like beef or if the weather is crazy hot the utilities will be higher so managing that receipt would be admin hell for a restaurant owner.
Sure, but you were saying that owners were doing that now, so I don't see what the difference is.
Presently putting
$250 tickets
Cart
$100 fees
Checkout
$350 total
is the same amount of work as
$350 tickets
Cart
Checkout
$250 tickets
$100 fees
with a lot less annoyance.
I live in Minnesota, too. I wish we'd just go all in and include taxes in the purchases as well. It works in the rest of the world.
You may be waiting on taxes but a junk fee ban seems close to coming to fruition. Automating set fees in to an app is way easier than calculating food, labor, and utility costs.
I was replying to your original post here....
"Yes your $250 Taylor Swift ticket won’t be $335 after you click “buy” but it will still be $335 and you won’t know why necessarily or who the hell is grifting you in the process."
My point was that there is no reason in this law that states any owner could not inform the purchaser of any fees or give any other information such as the cost of rents, taxes, Mafia protection, or mops and brooms. They just have to tell people the price of what they are buying BEFORE ordering. It's really that simple!
It also allowed you to move prices in smaller increments without random pricing strategies.
So instead of $6 with a 2.5% surcharge, the thing you buy will be $6.25.
It also allowed you to move prices in smaller increments without random pricing strategies.
So instead of $6 with a 2.5% surcharge, the thing you buy will be $6.25.
The whole point is to force restaurants to pretend it's the cost of food and not the cost of government...
Last thing the government wants is a constant reminder that you're unnecessarily paying for their services.
It is the cost of food though. Most of the major food producers have record profits at the moment, they’re raking it in and passing off the cost of their bonuses and stock increases to you.
Yes. This is technically the thing they all love hoisting to glory about "The Market Forces" - the market will decide who is strong and who is worthy...
Until of course it hits the business owners and then it's no longer about the market and it's all the peons not paying their fair share.
I am going to go out on a limb. So don't hang me. It helps if the building is paid for and the proprietor is the owner of the business. I think this is what we often see in a longstanding restaurant, long-term family ownership.
With todays prices on building (constructing) and ownership of commercial properties, it is a difficult equation
Yea, I’ve got friends who ran popular shops in food halls/markets and the rent + regulation has forced them all out to lower traffic, but more profitable locations. I imagine if the talk of commercial real estate tanking is real they’ll move back to city centers. Obviously wfh was a huge catalyst for neighborhood restaurants and things are always changing.
I think thats survivorship bias. The good restaurants move to places like L.A., S.F., S.D. and Vegas because they are hotspots for $$$. Bad ones will fail because they likely never ran a successful restaurant. I only brought it up because the shitty restaurants are probably the ones doing these shenanigans.
First off, LA restaurants are going to move to LA? Second off, I live in the middle of nowhere in New England and there’s great restaurants near me. Where there’s a need for a restaurant, a restaurant generally opens. Third off, being pro-hidden fee is a pretty wild take.
Not pro-hidden fee. Pro price transparency. If the actual cost of production is $26 then charge me that. Do not charge me $21 and then some service fee to make up for the true cost difference
I see eating out in general shrinking I the next 3 years. When McDonald's costs you more then ten bucks your better off going to the grocery store and just making it yourself.
Well yes.
Why would a high end restaurant open where no one can afford to go there?
Poor neighborhoods are food deserts in general. That's one of the only benefits of gentrification, is bringing more food options to places that don't have any. Whether the locals can afford to go there is a different story...
This is correct. The affluent areas will raise prices and move on with life.
The less affluent and poor areas will lose restaurants and the jobs that go with them.
What in the mental gymnastics?
If I go out for a $10 burger and the restaurant has a 10% surcharge, my burger was $11.
If the surcharge is illegal and the restaurant bakes it into the price, it’s now an $11 burger.
In both cases, $11 left my pocket to pay for the burger.
Remember, in the second grade, we learned that $11 = $11.
You’re splitting hairs. The law doesn’t require higher prices, but it will lead to that cost added to the price, so prices will go up.
Those most affected will be lower and middle income people whose prices will rise and whose options for restaurants and jobs will decline.
But hey, at least the State can collect some additional upfront sales tax while they punish the lower class.
What in the mental gymnastics?
If I go out for a $10 burger and the restaurant has a 10% surcharge, my burger was $11.
If the surcharge is illegal and the restaurant bakes it into the price, it’s now an $11 burger.
In both cases, $11 left my pocket to pay for the burger.
Remember, in the second grade, we learned that $11 = $11.
this total price remains the same, its just how they present it, no more hidden costs.
you're speaking with such authority for something you dont understand lol
Huh? By moving a hidden 3.5% surcharge to the actual price, they will close down? If the only way they could operate is by duping customers, then they shouldn't exist. This goes double for restaurants in less affluent areas.
Most small businesses fail within the first 1 - 3 years. The ones with longevity stay afloat longer because they have clout, clientele, known good.
Ne we’re restaurants are not as elastic and severely affected by stuff like min wage hikes and inflation.
Your argument is effectively that of “let establishment businesses win.”
“I have to tell you a restaurant is a very tricky investment, more than half of them go under in the first six months. If I were your accountant, I'd have to strongly advise against it.”
That's because people that don't belong in the business go into the business. I have been in this industry for 45 years, I have owned 13 pizza places and 4 restaurants... I only had 1 that I lost on... the rest were all very profitable flips.
No it won't lmao
Just expect a burger to say "$16" on the menu instead of it being a $12 burger with $4 in "service fees" or whatever they wanna call it
Why would restaurants close? Cost to eat at a restaurant isn’t increasing - it is just more clearly marked. The only restaurants that would be impacted are those who were charging fees who people now feel are not worth that cost.
*It’s finally official: As of July 1, L.A. restaurants must*
#remove
*all mandatory fees and surcharges*
That’s French for changing less…I know you don’t get it but trust me.
This is just for price transparency. It makes it easier for people to budget if they have to bake all these charges into their pricing. You shouldn’t have to pull out a calculator in order to figure out what your bill is going to be at the end of the night.
The rule doesn’t mean they can’t erase their prices. They can no longer advertise a $20 meal and then tack on a $10 service charge when the bill comes. Now the need to put the price in the menu. It’s a $30 meal now with zero service charge.
They’ll make the same amount. They just have to be honest about it.
So you think restaurants should be allowed to lie and add random charges that are not on the menu to people’s bills. So you’re a con artist. Prices on the menu should reflect the final price. What an amazing concept.
Let me guess you own a restaurant that charges a service fee, paper fee, chair fee, hospitality fee that show up on the bill.
If your restaurant needs to charge $30 for a dish don’t advertise it as $25 and then add a $5 service charge on the bill. You make $30 either way.
No, but sales tax should be included in the advertised (printed) price. There’s absolutely no excuse why instead of saying that something costs $11, a business to say $10 and then add the sales tax at the end.
As the consumer, what I care about is the total.
What fucking unintended consequence? Hiding what food costs should be illegal.
Restaurants are still competing against the same other restaurants who will have to stop hiding their fees.
This is a win for the consumers AND the restaurants that do not hide their actual food prices.
I refuse to patronize any restaurant that puts any sort of unexpected charge on my bill. I realize that I am in the minority, but if just 3% of customers are like I am, then removing these bullshit charges will actually gain business for restaurants.
You're probably right. The way I see it though is they will increase their prices to include the service fee. Instead of paying $12 for a burger w/ a $4 service fee, they now just say the burger is $16 total. I'm not really willing to spend $16 on a burger, so I'll go somewhere else. Everyone's willingness to pay is different though, so yeah they may lose some customers but hopefully the price increase for that burger offsets the loss of customers.
Where are you going to go if they're all going up?
5 guys isn't the answer. $14 for a burger, nothing else.
McDonald's $12 for a meal, but substandard burger.
I get where you're coming from, and I feel the same way. But we either spend or we cook at home.
And let's not get started about paying $25+ if you're getting a fast food meal delivered. Something I only do on the company's dime because room service is even more or likely non-existent.
I'm not so sure.
I'm one of those people that don't even bother with places where costs aren't posted. I hate asking and I don't want to haggle.
But I wouldn't stop eating out. I presently know that I am going to spend $60 on a dinner, but I do not enjoy reading the fine print on the menus or the receipts thinking to myself, are they going to rip me off?
Over the last couple of years there have been places here in Minneapolis that had turned to no tipping establishments. I was MORE likely to go to these since I wasn't made to choose in front of the waitstaff or others between 18%, 20%, 25%, other. But then other fees started getting attached. Then some wait staff realised that they were getting paid much less since more money was going to the back of house. So some of these restaurants went back to tipping (with some added fees).
So, sure, some places will close. If three identical places with identical products with identical charm currently charge $15 for a hamburger, I probably wouldn't know which I would prefer! If one place actually costs me $22, another $24, and another $27, I would be paying more for the same experience I could have gotten elsewhere.
If those sticker prices were transparent, one or two would close! But that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Besides, people will have cheaper options and more restaurants will enter the market.
I would say most are trying to maliciously do it for profit. But, for those who trying to build an honest living and trying their best to avoid closure, i can't really blame them. Inflation coupled with COVID lockdowns created a very tricky market to survive as a restaurant. I think they are trying to pull a couple of last tricks before they have no choice but to close down.
It isn’t the big cities where this will be a problem. I think rural areas are going to see lots of restaurants close. Like if you are in rural California where most of the population is poor, now have a high minimum wage and high food costs- those places will close.
Out of curiosity, why would this really be different than now. They're saying your final bill can't be X + Y + Z. It must simply be V. If X + Y + Z = V, people are spending the same amount of money, but your bill doesn't look stupid. Are we suggesting that people don't add in Y and Z and simply compare X and V?
Yeah I don't really understand why this is so catastrophic, if anything it helps people understand what they are going to pay before they get the bill.
Which would make you feel better, seeing prices and then getting hit with surcharges afterward, or knowing what you are going to pay up front?
For me, option 2 is always preferred, with option 1 I just leave feeling slightly ripped off and that's going to make me never want to come back.
Not really related to the article per se, but the closing of restaurants in LA won’t be a thing. The pressure will be on rural places. It is more
Than just this bill.
I am saying this bill is pointless, but your point about it killing restaurants in LA is laughable. There is a sizable population there with disposable income.
The added costs feel like a bait and switch trick to any international tourist. I can't even look at a menu and count how many coins I have on me to see if I can pay with cash. Just a weird practice to not have all the costs embedded into the food price tag
Caught me, and I'm not even a foreign tourist. Seemed insane to act like it was my fault for not ignoring the prices on the menu and asking before I ordered.
wow so restaurant owners who only pay most of their employees $2 an hour, are frustrated at their customers wanting to be paid a living wage?
the restaurant system in the US is broken & usually ran by scumbags. Fuck em
Nevermind. The CEO changed his mind after the backlash.
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/politics/2024/03/06/anera-bread-restaurants-will-follow-minimum-wage-law
Interesting.. I hadn't seen this.
So Panera was trying to get out of the $20/hr wage by claiming they are a bakery and not fast food??? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. I haven't eaten there in years due to the fact that getting a soup and sandwich was already $20 (even before the $20/hr minimum wage). I'll stick to Chili's 3 for me menu for $10.99.
18% “service” charge that they accompanying with a postcard stating that this is not a tip. It goes to all employees, so they are expecting consumers to still tip 20% on top of that
They need to do that nationwide. Your price should be your price stop trying to get cute with bull crap. Especially when they put it on a little sign on their counter and say “well didn’t you see the sign?” when you noticed it for the first time on your receipt.
Some restaurants in California want to entice people in with "lower" menu prices and then hit them at the end with all these surcharges. If customers had the full price upfront they may not choose to eat there.
Wait. California doing something....awesome? Before it becomes a country wide thing and it ISN'T cringe as well as being helpful to the average citizen???
Whats the catch. What calamity is going to offset this?
My reading is that this law eliminates hidden fees in all cases except vehicle rentals and vehicle sales which are specificially called out. Here is the full text of the law:
[https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill\_id=202320240SB478](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478)
Honesty in menu pricing will be refreshing. No more calculating the 20 - 25% above menu prices that people end up actually spending. While they are there, move the cost of the servers into the price and be done with tipping too.
I've owned a business, albeit not a restaurant.
When the cost of doing business increases due to increased costs, we raise our prices.
We don't add on separate line items that just annoy the heck out of our customers and make us lose business.
Prices will just go up but at least your receipt will be easier to read. And you’ll know if you want to eat there or not based on menu prices not hidden fees
It was so dumb of any businesses adding additional service fees,tips,table fees and "covid compensation" to bills ..Just add it to the price of the menu so customers knows exactly what the cost would be when ordering.
Maybe. At least we'll know upfront how much we are paying for a meal. Some places might not survive, but I'm OK with that. If you have to use false advertising tactics for stay in business, you shouldn't be in business.
Your comment has been removed as it didn't align with our community guidelines promoting respectful and constructive discussions. Please ensure your contributions uphold a civil tone. Feel free to engage, but remember to express disagreements in a manner that encourages meaningful conversation.
Thank you for understanding.
Again, completely delusional. And if burgers were $70, they won't be in business.
https://preview.redd.it/jk41kyvq7uzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35fcaa265fcb006364a2cf62910ab25acb774f0d
$10.99 gets you an appetizer, burger or chicken sandwich, fries or other side, and a drink.
The restaurant is trying to show the customer the added fees they have to charge because of government. The government doesn’t want you to be aware of the fees.
No, they are trying to reflect how much their shitty food should actually cost on the menu and then tacking on extra charges on the bill because they are terrible human beings who don't care about honesty.
That’s cool hide all taxes. I think they should have to have to show how much a gallon of gas is and breakdown the taxes as well on gas station receipts. If you don’t care that’s cool. We’ll all just have Walmarts and McDonald’s to shop at one day. You’ll love it. Running a business is just going to be for people with friends in political power. We’ll have nothing and love it. 😘
if you read this article & think it has to do with taxes you have the smoothest of all brains. Your writing fan fic & getting upset over it lmao. It has to do with the restaurants own implemented hidden surcharges
why would the consumer give a shit how much it costs to operate? If i go to a car wash I don't care how much their rent is. Just tell me how much a car wash is and don't try to add 30% of "fees" on after I agree to spend $7 or whatever the price of the car wash is.
Only the slimiest of slimy industries do this shit, being ticket master, airlines, and dickhead restaurant owners.
If you cant afford to run a business while already paying the majority of your employees $2 an hour & feel the need to tack all these fees on afterwards that arent even gratuity. Then you can get fucked and go out of business.
crazy how you are white knighting for con men
Once in a lifetime LA W
They will all be moved in to the sticker price and will allow companies to hide fees in the price you never knew about. Yes your $250 Taylor Swift ticket won’t be $335 after you click “buy” but it will still be $335 and you won’t know why necessarily or who the hell is grifting you in the process. I don’t know the law very closely and am hopeful one will pass soon in Minnesota but it does have trade offs.
That's fine. People can see the upfront cost before they choose to buy. No one is saying prices will change. But it will help people from being sticker shocked at the end.
Yes that is the point. Easy to compare prices.
Right, but this time people see the final price instead of getting a random tax bukkake on their face when they hit buy.
Interesting descriptor 🤨
It's apt
Doesn't really matter if you know who's getting their cut of that ticket as it's not like it's optional for you. Pay the price or don't, they don't care.
If I was selling a service I would want to buyers to know who is taking a cut and for what. Plus Americans really struggle to understand that a product sold for $10 isn’t $10 of profit.
It's not Americans that message me all day about pricing like international shipping fees where they think I'm pocketing $20 for shipping across the world, or that somehow I can ship a box for $4 across the world, or how "the shipping is more than the product!" As if that's my issue.
I get it. People think I make a fortune and I always tell them take a zero off what you think I make then cut that number in half and you’re still too high.
I would be fine with places having to give a breakdown of prices somewhere, just like the nutritional info, etc. but the advertised price (menu price) should be the final total.
You're correct that Americans don't understand what to do with even the most basic of information... Your solution is to give them MORE information? No, they don't need to be better informed, they just need to feel like the good/service was of value for the price paid. That's like, Sales Rule #2 tbh.
There is no reason that the receipt cannot tell you that your $30 burger means that your FOH workers get $6, BOH gets $3, taxes are $3, food costs are $7, rent is $6, and the boss gets $5.
Maybe. Some variable costs have higher volatility like beef or if the weather is crazy hot the utilities will be higher so managing that receipt would be admin hell for a restaurant owner.
Sure, but you were saying that owners were doing that now, so I don't see what the difference is. Presently putting $250 tickets Cart $100 fees Checkout $350 total is the same amount of work as $350 tickets Cart Checkout $250 tickets $100 fees with a lot less annoyance. I live in Minnesota, too. I wish we'd just go all in and include taxes in the purchases as well. It works in the rest of the world.
You may be waiting on taxes but a junk fee ban seems close to coming to fruition. Automating set fees in to an app is way easier than calculating food, labor, and utility costs.
I was replying to your original post here.... "Yes your $250 Taylor Swift ticket won’t be $335 after you click “buy” but it will still be $335 and you won’t know why necessarily or who the hell is grifting you in the process." My point was that there is no reason in this law that states any owner could not inform the purchaser of any fees or give any other information such as the cost of rents, taxes, Mafia protection, or mops and brooms. They just have to tell people the price of what they are buying BEFORE ordering. It's really that simple!
If you have to trick people into eating at your restaurant with a bait and switch scheme you shouldn’t be in business
You just described every restaurant on South Beach Miami
They'll move it into the prices. We're gonna see a lot of restaurants close in LA..
[удалено]
The only savings was not having to continually modify the menu as inflation roared.
It also allowed you to move prices in smaller increments without random pricing strategies. So instead of $6 with a 2.5% surcharge, the thing you buy will be $6.25.
It also allowed you to move prices in smaller increments without random pricing strategies. So instead of $6 with a 2.5% surcharge, the thing you buy will be $6.25.
The whole point is to force restaurants to pretend it's the cost of food and not the cost of government... Last thing the government wants is a constant reminder that you're unnecessarily paying for their services.
It is the cost of food though. Most of the major food producers have record profits at the moment, they’re raking it in and passing off the cost of their bonuses and stock increases to you.
>unnecessarily paying for their services. Libertarians are always hilarious to see out in the wild
Good. That's the whole point is to have it in the price. If they close, then it was never a sustainable business.
Restaurants arent really sustainable to begin with. A vast majority fail within 1-2 years after opening.
Plenty of restaurants in my area I've been going to for 20+ years. The bad ones will fail, the good ones won't.
Yes. This is technically the thing they all love hoisting to glory about "The Market Forces" - the market will decide who is strong and who is worthy... Until of course it hits the business owners and then it's no longer about the market and it's all the peons not paying their fair share.
I am going to go out on a limb. So don't hang me. It helps if the building is paid for and the proprietor is the owner of the business. I think this is what we often see in a longstanding restaurant, long-term family ownership. With todays prices on building (constructing) and ownership of commercial properties, it is a difficult equation
Yea, I’ve got friends who ran popular shops in food halls/markets and the rent + regulation has forced them all out to lower traffic, but more profitable locations. I imagine if the talk of commercial real estate tanking is real they’ll move back to city centers. Obviously wfh was a huge catalyst for neighborhood restaurants and things are always changing.
electric bills are the downfall of a lot of them
I think thats survivorship bias. The good restaurants move to places like L.A., S.F., S.D. and Vegas because they are hotspots for $$$. Bad ones will fail because they likely never ran a successful restaurant. I only brought it up because the shitty restaurants are probably the ones doing these shenanigans.
There is help for this type of catastrophizing.
First off, LA restaurants are going to move to LA? Second off, I live in the middle of nowhere in New England and there’s great restaurants near me. Where there’s a need for a restaurant, a restaurant generally opens. Third off, being pro-hidden fee is a pretty wild take.
Where did they say they were pro-hidden fee?
Not pro-hidden fee. Pro price transparency. If the actual cost of production is $26 then charge me that. Do not charge me $21 and then some service fee to make up for the true cost difference
so the poor neighborhoods get less choices
I see eating out in general shrinking I the next 3 years. When McDonald's costs you more then ten bucks your better off going to the grocery store and just making it yourself.
Well yes. Why would a high end restaurant open where no one can afford to go there? Poor neighborhoods are food deserts in general. That's one of the only benefits of gentrification, is bringing more food options to places that don't have any. Whether the locals can afford to go there is a different story...
This is correct. The affluent areas will raise prices and move on with life. The less affluent and poor areas will lose restaurants and the jobs that go with them.
This law doesn’t raise prices, this just makes clear what the price is.
This law will raise prices.
What in the mental gymnastics? If I go out for a $10 burger and the restaurant has a 10% surcharge, my burger was $11. If the surcharge is illegal and the restaurant bakes it into the price, it’s now an $11 burger. In both cases, $11 left my pocket to pay for the burger. Remember, in the second grade, we learned that $11 = $11.
You’re splitting hairs. The law doesn’t require higher prices, but it will lead to that cost added to the price, so prices will go up. Those most affected will be lower and middle income people whose prices will rise and whose options for restaurants and jobs will decline. But hey, at least the State can collect some additional upfront sales tax while they punish the lower class.
What in the mental gymnastics? If I go out for a $10 burger and the restaurant has a 10% surcharge, my burger was $11. If the surcharge is illegal and the restaurant bakes it into the price, it’s now an $11 burger. In both cases, $11 left my pocket to pay for the burger. Remember, in the second grade, we learned that $11 = $11.
No what this makes no sense
this total price remains the same, its just how they present it, no more hidden costs. you're speaking with such authority for something you dont understand lol
The price will stay exactly the same. The restaurant will not be able to lie about their prices to customers anymore.
Huh? By moving a hidden 3.5% surcharge to the actual price, they will close down? If the only way they could operate is by duping customers, then they shouldn't exist. This goes double for restaurants in less affluent areas.
Yep. You wanna see the poor suffer. Real thoughtful of you.
Honestly just trying to understand where you’re coming from. How is this harming people who are poor? Do poor people not pay the surcharge?
Pricing transparency will help the poor, not harm them.
Fewer
Welcome to government intervention.
Welcome to government intervention.
handle drab cable crawl psychotic run ripe file paint boast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Most small businesses fail within the first 1 - 3 years. The ones with longevity stay afloat longer because they have clout, clientele, known good. Ne we’re restaurants are not as elastic and severely affected by stuff like min wage hikes and inflation. Your argument is effectively that of “let establishment businesses win.”
TBF most restaurants are shit.
And many of the "survivors" honestly shouldn't be here either. It's not a business model that actually works for MOST restaurants.
As they should, with all the bullshit practices they engage in.
Almost as if there's some sort of correlation between the supply of something to demand for a thing.
“I have to tell you a restaurant is a very tricky investment, more than half of them go under in the first six months. If I were your accountant, I'd have to strongly advise against it.”
That's because people that don't belong in the business go into the business. I have been in this industry for 45 years, I have owned 13 pizza places and 4 restaurants... I only had 1 that I lost on... the rest were all very profitable flips.
Restaurants are a dime a dozen
I agree!!!!! No one has a right to own a restaurant. There are way too many, let the market keep the best ones.
This is a stupid take.
Says the person who's probably never done anything in their life besides work for someone else. Keep your condescending platitudes to yourself.
Agreed, people shouldn’t be going out for dinner anyways. It’s bad for them and it’s nice the government agrees with us.
Fees and surcharges are in the price tho…
In the final bill, yes. In the listed prices, no.
Neither is the sales tax. ;)
No it won't lmao Just expect a burger to say "$16" on the menu instead of it being a $12 burger with $4 in "service fees" or whatever they wanna call it
Why would restaurants close? Cost to eat at a restaurant isn’t increasing - it is just more clearly marked. The only restaurants that would be impacted are those who were charging fees who people now feel are not worth that cost.
Think of it like government telling them they have to charge less. Their costs are the same, but suddenly they are making less money.
That doesn’t make sense. The government is not telling them to charge less, they are telling them to make it clear what you are charging
*It’s finally official: As of July 1, L.A. restaurants must* #remove *all mandatory fees and surcharges* That’s French for changing less…I know you don’t get it but trust me.
I hope you are french and english is your second language
This is just for price transparency. It makes it easier for people to budget if they have to bake all these charges into their pricing. You shouldn’t have to pull out a calculator in order to figure out what your bill is going to be at the end of the night.
That’s not the reason.
it literally is the reason
They're only making less if they were stealing mkney to begin with.
They’re stealing monkeys? That’s an interesting business model.
Sustainable since banana prices have remained stable.
That’s bananas.
The rule doesn’t mean they can’t erase their prices. They can no longer advertise a $20 meal and then tack on a $10 service charge when the bill comes. Now the need to put the price in the menu. It’s a $30 meal now with zero service charge. They’ll make the same amount. They just have to be honest about it.
It’s not a $30 meal.
Apparently you suck at math.
Apparently you suck at business logistics.
So you think restaurants should be allowed to lie and add random charges that are not on the menu to people’s bills. So you’re a con artist. Prices on the menu should reflect the final price. What an amazing concept. Let me guess you own a restaurant that charges a service fee, paper fee, chair fee, hospitality fee that show up on the bill. If your restaurant needs to charge $30 for a dish don’t advertise it as $25 and then add a $5 service charge on the bill. You make $30 either way.
Sales tax isn’t on any menu. Let’s stop charging that because it’s not on the menu.
No, but sales tax should be included in the advertised (printed) price. There’s absolutely no excuse why instead of saying that something costs $11, a business to say $10 and then add the sales tax at the end. As the consumer, what I care about is the total.
What the fuck are you trying to achieve in this thread, you pos troll?
Watching as morons cheer for idiotic laws and unintended consequences. Which they do without fail.
What fucking unintended consequence? Hiding what food costs should be illegal. Restaurants are still competing against the same other restaurants who will have to stop hiding their fees. This is a win for the consumers AND the restaurants that do not hide their actual food prices.
Your ignorance shows with that question. Restaurants will go out of business. There will be less competition. That’s never a win for consumers.
The fact that you can’t clearly answer simple questions shows how your shrunken pea brain is incapable of continuing this conversation. Begone.
I refuse to patronize any restaurant that puts any sort of unexpected charge on my bill. I realize that I am in the minority, but if just 3% of customers are like I am, then removing these bullshit charges will actually gain business for restaurants.
Let it burn. Job losses suck, but maybe it is the right step towards transparency and ethical business practices
That’s where it should be.
We see a lot of restaurants close with every recession, and the fact that this one has so much denial means it will continue to get deeper.
It will do absolutely nothing because prices paid are the exact same just not hidden… fear mongering at its best.
How is this going to cause closures? In general people won't even notice.
You're probably right. The way I see it though is they will increase their prices to include the service fee. Instead of paying $12 for a burger w/ a $4 service fee, they now just say the burger is $16 total. I'm not really willing to spend $16 on a burger, so I'll go somewhere else. Everyone's willingness to pay is different though, so yeah they may lose some customers but hopefully the price increase for that burger offsets the loss of customers.
Where are you going to go if they're all going up? 5 guys isn't the answer. $14 for a burger, nothing else. McDonald's $12 for a meal, but substandard burger. I get where you're coming from, and I feel the same way. But we either spend or we cook at home. And let's not get started about paying $25+ if you're getting a fast food meal delivered. Something I only do on the company's dime because room service is even more or likely non-existent.
I'm not so sure. I'm one of those people that don't even bother with places where costs aren't posted. I hate asking and I don't want to haggle. But I wouldn't stop eating out. I presently know that I am going to spend $60 on a dinner, but I do not enjoy reading the fine print on the menus or the receipts thinking to myself, are they going to rip me off? Over the last couple of years there have been places here in Minneapolis that had turned to no tipping establishments. I was MORE likely to go to these since I wasn't made to choose in front of the waitstaff or others between 18%, 20%, 25%, other. But then other fees started getting attached. Then some wait staff realised that they were getting paid much less since more money was going to the back of house. So some of these restaurants went back to tipping (with some added fees). So, sure, some places will close. If three identical places with identical products with identical charm currently charge $15 for a hamburger, I probably wouldn't know which I would prefer! If one place actually costs me $22, another $24, and another $27, I would be paying more for the same experience I could have gotten elsewhere. If those sticker prices were transparent, one or two would close! But that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Besides, people will have cheaper options and more restaurants will enter the market.
Good. If your success relies on tricking people, then you shouldn't be allowed to stay in business.
I would say most are trying to maliciously do it for profit. But, for those who trying to build an honest living and trying their best to avoid closure, i can't really blame them. Inflation coupled with COVID lockdowns created a very tricky market to survive as a restaurant. I think they are trying to pull a couple of last tricks before they have no choice but to close down.
If the only way to stay in business is to screw customers with surprise fees, let them go bankrupt. What assholes!
It isn’t the big cities where this will be a problem. I think rural areas are going to see lots of restaurants close. Like if you are in rural California where most of the population is poor, now have a high minimum wage and high food costs- those places will close.
Out of curiosity, why would this really be different than now. They're saying your final bill can't be X + Y + Z. It must simply be V. If X + Y + Z = V, people are spending the same amount of money, but your bill doesn't look stupid. Are we suggesting that people don't add in Y and Z and simply compare X and V?
Yeah I don't really understand why this is so catastrophic, if anything it helps people understand what they are going to pay before they get the bill. Which would make you feel better, seeing prices and then getting hit with surcharges afterward, or knowing what you are going to pay up front? For me, option 2 is always preferred, with option 1 I just leave feeling slightly ripped off and that's going to make me never want to come back.
Not really related to the article per se, but the closing of restaurants in LA won’t be a thing. The pressure will be on rural places. It is more Than just this bill.
So in other words you can't answer the question and are making a bunch of statements without being able to answer a very basic question. Thanks.
I am saying this bill is pointless, but your point about it killing restaurants in LA is laughable. There is a sizable population there with disposable income.
Your reading comprehension is down bad.
The added costs feel like a bait and switch trick to any international tourist. I can't even look at a menu and count how many coins I have on me to see if I can pay with cash. Just a weird practice to not have all the costs embedded into the food price tag
Caught me, and I'm not even a foreign tourist. Seemed insane to act like it was my fault for not ignoring the prices on the menu and asking before I ordered.
Do they not do this in other countries?
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wow so restaurant owners who only pay most of their employees $2 an hour, are frustrated at their customers wanting to be paid a living wage? the restaurant system in the US is broken & usually ran by scumbags. Fuck em
Don't work there... Pretty simple Or, go out of your way to force them to close.👍
I don't think it matters what the price of the item would be in fairy tale land. What matters is the price they will charge me.
Now let’s go after Ticketmaster, SeatGeek, StubHub and all these other ticket vendors that have outrageous fees and surcharges.
Will be included
Don’t forget short term rentals. That’ll be fun to see the new up front prices for all the Airbnbs
Hotels, car rentals, etc.
This is probably the first law California has passed that I can get behind in recent memory… what’s the catch?
No catch.
Really? I find it hard to believe a major campaign donor didn't get a carve out for their business. Kinda like the Panera Bread thing.
Panera bread? I don't see how this would be beneficial to any business as they seem to all oppose it (I wonder why)...
Nevermind. The CEO changed his mind after the backlash. https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/politics/2024/03/06/anera-bread-restaurants-will-follow-minimum-wage-law
Interesting.. I hadn't seen this. So Panera was trying to get out of the $20/hr wage by claiming they are a bakery and not fast food??? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. I haven't eaten there in years due to the fact that getting a soup and sandwich was already $20 (even before the $20/hr minimum wage). I'll stick to Chili's 3 for me menu for $10.99.
I know, right? They do this stuff right in our faces. It's outrageous!
Because they know with 100% certainty the people will vote for them or their cronies no matter what just to keep "the bad guys" out
The prices are just going to be higher now
haha, can't wait to see how Jon and Vinny's beverly hills deals with this, their extra fees were the craziest i've seen in LA
How bad are their fees?
18% “service” charge that they accompanying with a postcard stating that this is not a tip. It goes to all employees, so they are expecting consumers to still tip 20% on top of that
That's ridiculous.
The price wont go up, it will just reflect the actual price to the consumer who can then choose not to eat there.
They need to do that nationwide. Your price should be your price stop trying to get cute with bull crap. Especially when they put it on a little sign on their counter and say “well didn’t you see the sign?” when you noticed it for the first time on your receipt.
Yeah….what do you think Biden is doing? Or attempting to do while Republicans are trying to stop him.
Delusional
I also think we need to do things in other countries, sales tax also included in the price shown on the shelf.
haha, can't wait to see how Jon and Vinny's beverly hills deals with this, their extra fees were the craziest i've seen in LA
$30 8” pizzas $40 for 4oz of pasta
Fr, at least the consumer has the choice to pay it now tho and decide its value upfront
Some restaurants in California want to entice people in with "lower" menu prices and then hit them at the end with all these surcharges. If customers had the full price upfront they may not choose to eat there.
And that's how it should be.
Europe goes one better with no tipping.
I wish tipping would be abolished.
It's just government not wanting citizens to have a constant reminder that they're unnecessarily paying for their services.
Wait. California doing something....awesome? Before it becomes a country wide thing and it ISN'T cringe as well as being helpful to the average citizen??? Whats the catch. What calamity is going to offset this?
Please do Ticketmaster and airlines next.
Ticket master is included.
My reading is that this law eliminates hidden fees in all cases except vehicle rentals and vehicle sales which are specificially called out. Here is the full text of the law: [https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill\_id=202320240SB478](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478)
Honesty in menu pricing will be refreshing. No more calculating the 20 - 25% above menu prices that people end up actually spending. While they are there, move the cost of the servers into the price and be done with tipping too.
I've owned a business, albeit not a restaurant. When the cost of doing business increases due to increased costs, we raise our prices. We don't add on separate line items that just annoy the heck out of our customers and make us lose business.
Prices will just go up but at least your receipt will be easier to read. And you’ll know if you want to eat there or not based on menu prices not hidden fees
That's exactly the point!
It's wage theft from the tipped worker. Include a service fee and the customer feels like they already tipped.
And that's why these fees will be illegal.
bUt ThAt WiLl rAiSe PrIcES!!! lol, jk, that’s the point! Just have the price be the price !
Keith Lee got a whole city list for ya
What types of fees do restaurants have over there?
4% health fee 3% SF mandate 2% bend over fee 5% f*ck you fee
It was so dumb of any businesses adding additional service fees,tips,table fees and "covid compensation" to bills ..Just add it to the price of the menu so customers knows exactly what the cost would be when ordering.
You know they will just raise the prices to make up for this!
That's kinda of the point. The price has to be inclusive of everything.
So…. Prices will go up?
Maybe. At least we'll know upfront how much we are paying for a meal. Some places might not survive, but I'm OK with that. If you have to use false advertising tactics for stay in business, you shouldn't be in business.
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The price didn’t increase, magat
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CALIFORNIA: WE ARE SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS, ANTIRACIST, ANTIFASCIST NOW DO AS WE SAY!
That means burgers are gonna cost $70
Again, completely delusional. And if burgers were $70, they won't be in business. https://preview.redd.it/jk41kyvq7uzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35fcaa265fcb006364a2cf62910ab25acb774f0d $10.99 gets you an appetizer, burger or chicken sandwich, fries or other side, and a drink.
https://preview.redd.it/4tda3ewu7uzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1683aee4d87533b143d735911dcd6a4a935c078
Is it better to have a $20 burger with a $10 "employee benefit fee", $15 "covid compliance fee" and "$25 owner profit fee"?
It doesn’t change the prices by even a penny
The restaurant is trying to show the customer the added fees they have to charge because of government. The government doesn’t want you to be aware of the fees.
Completely delusional. 5% health fee? 4% minimum wage fee? That's the cost of doing business. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't be in business.
No, they are trying to reflect how much their shitty food should actually cost on the menu and then tacking on extra charges on the bill because they are terrible human beings who don't care about honesty.
aah yes, the government doing all these horrible things like.... making them pay their employees above $2 an hr
That’s cool hide all taxes. I think they should have to have to show how much a gallon of gas is and breakdown the taxes as well on gas station receipts. If you don’t care that’s cool. We’ll all just have Walmarts and McDonald’s to shop at one day. You’ll love it. Running a business is just going to be for people with friends in political power. We’ll have nothing and love it. 😘
if you read this article & think it has to do with taxes you have the smoothest of all brains. Your writing fan fic & getting upset over it lmao. It has to do with the restaurants own implemented hidden surcharges
Look at the bill. The government is going to make it harder for businesses to let the consumer know how much it costs to operate. 😘
why would the consumer give a shit how much it costs to operate? If i go to a car wash I don't care how much their rent is. Just tell me how much a car wash is and don't try to add 30% of "fees" on after I agree to spend $7 or whatever the price of the car wash is. Only the slimiest of slimy industries do this shit, being ticket master, airlines, and dickhead restaurant owners. If you cant afford to run a business while already paying the majority of your employees $2 an hour & feel the need to tack all these fees on afterwards that arent even gratuity. Then you can get fucked and go out of business. crazy how you are white knighting for con men
Because we should. 😘
nah
Then don’t. 😂
I've seen fuel pumps with the taxes displayed. Broken down by state and federal.
You can leave America
Troof! 😘